Following the 2018 shooting in a Santa Fe, Texas high school, Michael Bloomberg’s Everytown for Gun Safety sued ammunition retailer Lucky Gunner in an attempt to skirt the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms act. After years of lawfare litigation in a failed attempt to bankrupt the ammo seller, the lawsuit was settled this week.
Everytown and the media hailed the settlement as some kind of unprecedented victory. The Houston Chronicle trumpeted the settlement this way…‘Seen as first of its kind, Santa Fe shooting families reach settlement with online ammunition sellers.’ But when you read the Chronicle’s story, it becomes clear that Everytown actually came away with…nothing.
Everytown Law, the gun violence prevention organization that represented one of the families in the lawsuit, announced Thursday that the case had been settled. The organization also said the companies agreed to “maintain an age verification system at the point of sale for all ammunition sales.” The agreement is the first of its kind, the organization said.
In agreeing to “maintain an age verification system at the point of sale,” Lucky Gunner conceded nothing. The company has had an age verification system in place for years. In other words, Lucky Gunner agreed to keep using the same system to verify buyers’ age that they’ve had for years.
So the result of the settlement is, Everytown achieved essentially nothing in the settlement…besides bleeding hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal expenses out of Lucky Gunner, which was always Everytown’s real goal in filing the suit.
Lucky Gunner issued this statement . . .
It should come as no surprise that anti-Second Amendment activists will do and say anything to push their agenda, including using tragedy to further their cause. Following a 2018 shooting in Santa Fe, Texas, the activists at Everytown Law saw an opportunity to do just that. The Michael Bloomberg-funded group spearheaded a lawsuit against Lucky Gunner with one clear goal: to drive us out of business. They failed. This week, we announce the dismissal and settlement of that lawsuit.
We spent three years vigorously defending against this lawsuit and the many false allegations levied against our company and its employees. We refused to back down and were committed to fighting as long as necessary to prove we did nothing wrong.
Our loyal customers and suppliers know we follow the law. We are proud of that fact. In the end, a plaintiff and one of the victims of the shooting, Trent Beazley, even said, “Upon reflection and review of the facts, I believe that Lucky Gunner did not break a law.”
Clint McGuire, an attorney for several of the plaintiffs, echoed that sentiment during a press conference highlighting lobbying efforts to change Texas ammo sales laws.
“There is not a law in the State of Texas that requires ammunition sellers – whether they are brick and mortar or whether they are online stores – to require proof of age before they sell ammunition,” McGuire said. But he sued us anyway.
Ending this lawsuit now allowed us to achieve several goals. First, we protected our reputation for following the law. Second, we stopped wasting money on lawyers so we can put it to better use buying inventory for our customers. Finally, we avoided the risk that the jury would incorrectly apply the law, which could set precedent that would hurt your Second Amendment rights going forward.
We are thankful the truth is finally out, even if most in the legacy media have wrongly painted this to be a groundbreaking win for anti-Second Amendment activists. That simply isn’t true. We agreed to continue with the same age verification process we have been using since 2019. We did not agree to change any part of our business as a part of the resolution of this lawsuit.
“We’ve spent years investing in systems and processes to ensure that buying ammo online is secure, convenient, and cost-effective,” Jake Felde, Lucky Gunner’s Chief Executive Officer said. “If you’re a regular customer, you won’t notice any difference in the experience.”
Helping you exercise your Second Amendment rights is our privilege. We are overwhelmed by the support we have received these past three years, and by the passion our customers show for preserving freedom. We stand ready to serve you for years to come.
Tiny wins is all they have; they go well with the huge losses.
RE: “It should come as no surprise that anti-Second Amendment activists will do and say anything to push their agenda,”
Certainly no surprise and it is expected, after all history does confirm Gun Control is an agenda rooted in racism and genocide.
“There is not a law in the State of Texas that requires ammunition sellers – whether they are brick and mortar or whether they are online stores – to require proof of age before they sell ammunition,” McGuire said. But he sued us anyway.
My take is this about ammunition sales and not about “Gun Control is an agenda rooted in racism and genocide.”
Where do you come up with this shit?
“One Note Samba”
It’s about ammunition sales in as much as it’s a way to put gun retailers out of business. It’s not about safety, but about controlling the populace. And like the person you replied to said, historically, gun control is racist at it’s core. I believe it was NY that tried presenting those roots as evidence to back up new laws.
It’s gun control pure and simple. They think if there is no ammunition, there will be no shooting. Rather than go further than that, that is the ultimate end. I can tell you that buying ammo in Kallifornikadia is a major pain in the butt that entails spending more time and money than it should. Ammo control has no more effect than controlling drug smuggling. Or in the case of Kallyfornikadia, cigarette smuggling as taxes in KA on cigarettes are higher than adjoining states. I feel fairly confident that every smoker’s car coming back from Vegas has a case of smoking material in the trunk. As far back as when I was in high school, long, long ago and far, far away, I used to earn extra money smuggling cigarettes. I went to high school in Delaware, home state of Sleepy Joe but lived in PA. Cigarettes were considerably cheaper in Delaware than PA. I had regular customers in PA that I bought cartons of cigarettes for weekly in DE.
Debbie is as dumb and evil as the race baiters on the Left that see EVERYTHING as racist. All the BLM and Defund the Police bullshit was due to the same type of backwards thinking that only hurt minorities in the end by burning down their neighborhoods, killing dozens, and leaving them less protected. Great job!
Al Sharpton would be proud of madcow Debbie.
Sorry, but gun control has been racist for over 300 years in this country. Ever since the first black slave was imported into this country. It is also elitist. As you may notice, our masters in DC have no problem with them possessing firearms. It is just the hoi polloi that they want to keep firearms from. And there is some basis for the statement the gun control is also sexist It is a lot easier to control the little woman if she is helpless against you punching her around when she has put too much salt in the food or some other silly reason. If she possesss and knows how to use a firearm, one must be careful. Punch her around too much and she just might shoot you where it hurts.
Remember the term the gun grabbers used to use “Saturday Night Special”. Well, long, long ago and far, far away when I was a young tad, the term was “N _ _ _ _ r Town Saturday Night Special.” The gun grabbers had to sanitize its original name, otherwise it wouldn’t fit their agenda. It was usually a cheaply made .32 long with a 4 inch or shorter barrel. Sort of like the Rolm in .22 short.
Cool! I may have to place an order with Lucky Gunner. I’ve already subscribed to their Youtube channel.
They still won’t ship to a residential address in California even if the purchaser has a valid FFL 03 and COE and is completely legal to receive ammo the way the rest of the country does.
I commend them for fighting for everyone’s 2A rights, the big fight, unfortunately, they are leaving people like us in California to fight the “smaller battles” alone. Hopefully, more online retailers see that California is still a viable market for them and will help us in our struggle.
Yes, I know, “leave California”. Some of us can’t, for one reason or another.
California are in violation of the INterstate commerce Clause of the US Cnstitution. Maybe some out of state ammunition seller should ship to California address anyway and if the state tries to come after them, come back with a federallawsuit for their egregious violation of the ICC.
The dims are turning ILLANNOY into the Midwest Commiefornia. I feel your pain. Anyone who won’t ship to Illinois(or Cook county) won’t get my business when we move to Indiana!!! And I’ll tell the world they suck…
Too late fww,
We are midwest commiefornia here in the once great state of Colorado.
Living in Illinois I can’t blame anyone that does not want to take a chance shipping to Illinois especially Crook County. Just not worth it to risk a lawsuit even one that has no merit as it would still be very costly to defend.
Agreed. If my family circumstances change that cloud of dust, streak of white and the familiar cry “I’m outta here” will be all you will see of me. Shoulda coulda, woulda certainly applies to me. I shoulda moved when I coulda. If I knew then what I know now I certainly woulda.
Good prices, good service, AND they ship to California FFL’s:
I stopped using them when they asked me to upload a copy of my driver’s license before I could place an order. Their customer support didn’t even apologize for the extreme intrusion.
It’s sad because they’re reliable and fast. Even though their prices are usually just meh I would use them again if they get rid of that stupid requirement.
That’s probably their “age verification system.” When you used to order from them, how did they verify your age, or did they? When did you last order from them that they required your DL?
Yeah they claimed it was age verification. They didn’t used to verify age at all except the fact that it was charged on a credit card – you need to be 18 to have one of those. The order where I told them thanks but no thanks was in the first half of 2022 and it looks like I hadn’t ordered in at least a couple years before that.
“Yeah they claimed it was age verification. They didn’t used to verify age at all except the fact that it was charged on a credit card …”
You no longer need to b 18 to have a credit card. Students get them all time, and anyone over the age of 13 can get a debit card connected to their checking account to use for online purchases. Online sites will give out one-time credit card numbers.
Sadly, government issued identification is about the only way to verify age these days.
Additionally, some states have laws that require an ID for ammo purchases, which would include online sales coming into the state.
That requirement probably is what saved them having to pay a large sum to the attorneys for the plaintiffs. Yeah, it is a pain and an intrusion. By the way, how much did you contribute to the Second Amendment Foundation last year to help fight stupid laws in court? Or any other gun rights organization other than the NRA? Wait until you have to pay $5.00 and wait for a permission slip before you can buy ammo for each and every ammo purchase you want to make. Plus if you are buying from an out of state vendor, you have to pay the gun shop a fee to receive and do the paper work for each ammo shipment from out of state. Of course, as I mentioned above, I wonder how much ammo comes across the border on a busy weekend from Vegas or Reno.
These guys have great customer service; it’s a great company.
I might end up buying some 357 Sig from them. Has anyone seen any on local shelves lately?
Yes. a couple brands at local Fleet Farm. No cowboy stuff though which I find “interesting” (no .357, .44, 30-30, 45-70).
It’s good to know there’s some out there in the wild. I can only find it online.
so the families were so ‘aggrieved’ that years in court to “maintain an age verification system at the point of sale for all ammunition sales” that Lucky Gunner was already doing anyway and had no intention of stopping anyway, and some money most of which went to Everytown, and the aggrieved saying that Lucky Gunner did nothing illegal….was for who really?
sound more like the families were used and victimized by Everytown.
I thought the same thing. They victimized the victims to punish their political enemies and make the lawyers rich.
There really has to be a way to countersue for frivolous lawuits like this….
Kind of like your average class action suits…
them claiming a route as a victory is silly this only frees them from uncertainty.
Sounds like a bunch of waste of time craziness to me.
Guys, this is the left. The only people they lie to than a voter, is themselves.
They should be hit with a lawsuit also , suing gun shops / company’s just to bleed em dry in court. That’s my opinion of Illinois new law. Lucky Gunner should sue them for deformation of character or something stupid. As we all know bLooMbug has money lots of it but to use it to help someone would never be considered. There are plenty of American Vets /Homeless and so on but with a heart of stone and addicted to POWER he could never do something kind.
While I’m at it. Here’s a poke in the left’s eye. Waiting on Mike to get back from a Jimmy Buffett concert in the Keys. Well, it is Florida. He has a mint Remington 788 carbine in .308 he found for me at a gun show before he left town. When I get my hands on it, it will be a private sale. X2. At least. He found it at a gun show in the National Guard Armory in Citrus County, FL. God bless Florida.
I’m going to need spare magazines and a set of ghost ring sights. I’ll give the BSA scope, mounts and rings to anyone that wants them. Don’t know the make on mounts/rings. Sorry.
788’s are a solid gun. My brother had one in 44mag. He got a couple white tail with it in PA.
Only held 3-4 rounds iirc
Three rds per magazine. At least the .308 and .223 I owned in the past. They are tack drivers. Hard to find today. My understanding is that BR shooters scoop them up. Tear them down for the action. Something about lock time. Maybe so. This will be another “walk in the woods” carbine. My favorite kind.
Lucky Gunner acted just like NRA. Instead of bankrupting all the plaintiffs, LG side-stepped and declared victory.
LG should have bled Bloomberg, et.al. to death financially; even to the point of bankruptcy for LG. In a fight to the political death, walking away is not victory, it is walking away.
Our 2A rights are more important than any business. And where were all the other supposed 2A defenders? Any of them offer to share expenses with LG? Any of them?
The issue at hand was not age verification/not age verification. The issue at hand was evading PLACA, which Everytown achieved. While Everytown won nothing financially substantive, they set precedent for every other violator of our natural, civil and human rights.
LG can countersue, which costs money and time. That’s IF a court will agree to hear the case, and it’s a crapshoot if they can prevail in court.
To my knowledge, they can only sue against the plaintiffs in the prior case. Unless Bloomberg et al were listed as co-plaintiffs, LG can’t sue them. IANAL.
“To my knowledge, they can only sue against the plaintiffs in the prior case.”
Good enough. When enough useful idiots lose everything in a counter suit, Everytown just may have difficulty attracting “victims”.
“LG should have bled Bloomberg, et.al. to death financially”
Michael Bloomberg has a net worth of over $75 billion. That’s about three time the net value of the entire US firearms manufacturing base.
No one, let alone Lucky Gunner, has the resources to bleed him dry if he wants to devote enough of his resources.
“No one, let alone Lucky Gunner, has the resources to bleed him dry if he wants to devote enough of his resources.”
True, perhaps, but if enough supposed 2A defender organizations gang up (and win), Bloomberg’s wealth might be significantly destroyed.
$75 billion is A LOT of money.
The NRA is worth a half a billion.
Bloomberg is worth 150 times the NRA.
If everybody “ganged up” it would barely rile him, let alone destroy him. If you had $20 million at 21 years old, you could live well for the rest of your life. That’s peanuts compared to BILLIONS
Bloomberg is one of the wealthiest men in the world. With him or his funded organization backing the lawsuit there is no way that Lucky Gunner could have gone mano a mano with a Bloomberg financed set of plaintiffs. If Lucky Gunner got off without paying the other side’s attorney fees, it was a win. The cost of litigation these days is so high that settling a bogus lawsuit is a win. Just the filing fees to defend in court run over a thousand dollars in some courts in CA. That’s if you file in pro per. If you get busted on a bogus gun charge, you will very quickly realize why so many folks plead guilty to bogus charges. If you can qualify for the public defender, that’s great, but even that will cost you because if you have any assets like some equity in a house you will need to reimburse the PD in CA. IF you opt for a private attorney, he may opt for a second mortgage on your house but he more than likely will insist on you borrowing the $25,000 retainer fee to take your case through the preliminary stages and perhaps work out a “good deal” where you plead to a misdemeanor, get probation for a couple of years and pay a hefty fine.
If the case with Lucky Gunner lasted three years, I feel confident it cost them at least a quarter of a million in lawyer feels. Drop in the bucket for Bloomie. He spends that much on greens fees at a golf course where he never even plays.
A settlement is not precedent setting. A juicy verdict is more precedent setting and a verdict upheld by an appellate court is precedent setting. That’s why so many companies settle. First, it does not set a legal precedent. Second, it saves the cost of a trial which is massive.
One of the reasons I have pre-paid legal service.
I read the source article in the link; the “facts” of the case seem quite different than what is portrayed in this TTAG summary.
“Online ammunition seller Luckygunner LLC and a related company, Red Stag Fulfillment LLC, in 2020 were sued by Santa Fe families, who accused the companies of enabling “illegal and negligent actions” by selling and shipping more than 100 rounds of handgun ammunition to then-17-year-old Dimitrious Pagourtzis. …
“Under federal law, it’s illegal for people younger than 18 years old to buy handgun ammunition. Licensed dealers are prohibited from selling ammunition to people younger than 21 years old.”
“Under the company’s new system, anyone whose age cannot be verified or who is verified to be younger than 21 years old is refused a sale, according to the news release. …
” “We didn’t do anything we weren’t already doing,” Lucky Gunner CEO Jake Felde said. A company spokesperson didn’t respond to a question about what practices it was changing as a result of the settlement.
“In a phone interview, [Everytown attorney] Lefkowitz said the company lost its immunity arguments “every single time.” …
‘The settlement came after Lucky Gunner lost an appeal in which the company claimed it was immune from being sued under federal law. That decision led to the settlement.”
” ‘The settlement came after Lucky Gunner lost an appeal in which the company claimed it was immune from being sued under federal law. That decision led to the settlement.” ”
Evading PLACA was the entire purpose of the law suit; Everytown won big.
Sam, if the following is true:
“Under federal law, it’s illegal for people younger than 18 years old to buy handgun ammunition.”
LG sold ammo to a 17-year-old in March 2018. LG says it’s been using an age-verification system since 2019. LG says that “We didn’t do anything we weren’t already doing,” but now they say “Under the company’s new system, anyone whose age cannot be verified or who is verified to be younger than 21 years old is refused a sale,” according to their news release. But they didn’t respond to a question about what practices it was changing as a result of the settlement. What were they doing to verify age in 2018?
It appears that the company agreed to settle the suit after they lost appeals that they operate under the PLCAA.
Does the PLCAA only apply to gun manufacturers or extend to ammo sellers?
Maybe Dan Z. can jump in and correct me if I’m wrong on the details.
“Does the PLCAA only apply to gun manufacturers or extend to ammo sellers?”
“Public Law No: 109-92 (10/26/2005)
(This measure has not been amended since it was passed by the Senate on July 29, 2005. The summary of that version is repeated here.)
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act – (Sec. 3) Prohibits a qualified civil liability action from being brought in any state or federal court against a manufacturer or seller of a firearm, ammunition, or a component of a firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or against a trade association of such manufacturers or sellers, for damages, punitive damages, injunctive or declaratory relief, abatement, restitution, fines, penalties, or other relief resulting from the criminal or unlawful misuse of a firearm. Requires pending actions to be dismissed.”
Sam, you do good homework. I should have looked it up.
Just the same — it appears to me that LG was sued because they sold ammunition to an underage buyer. I did look up “selling ammo to 18-year-olds” and found that Federal law prohibits selling handgun ammo to anyone under 18, and “dealers” are prohibited from selling it to anyone under 21. LG’s excuse that “(t)here is not a law in the State of Texas” prohibiting that sale doesn’t address the Federal restriction.
I’m also struck by LG’s assertion that they are using the same age-verification system that they’ve always used, sidesteps the concerns that they admit to using the same system that has been in place since 2019 and that they agreed to change their system as part of the settlement, and now will only sell ammo to those 21 and over – without explaining what was changed.
The defense that they’re protected under the PLCAA would not apply if LG was guilty of a criminal act in selling ammo to a 17-year-old in violation of Federal law, which trumps TX statute. Which is why LG decided to settle after losing the appeal that they’re protected under PLCAA (which indicates that they initially lost their case and appealed).
I’d hope that Dan Z. or one of our legal minds would chime in on my analysis.
“LG’s excuse that “(t)here is not a law in the State of Texas” prohibiting that sale doesn’t address the Federal restriction. ”
There are some open questions in the matter. Sometimes, trying for conciseness, important information is truncated, or edited-out.
In the end, if Everytown had a solid, impressive case, settling makes little sense (as Everytown has unlimited financial resources available). Unless, of course, it was all about showmanship for Everytown.
You can’t outspend Bloomberg. Look how much money he was willing to piss away to make his “president bloomberg” fantasy come true. Nothing more dangerous to personal freedoms than a fucking billionaire with an agenda. Why can’t they just be happy putting their names on buildings?
the money his campaign spent was like a vacation to you or I. something like a billion dollars.
Feelings and “non profits” (501(c)(3) organizations) are nothing new. They don’t care if they win or lose. It’s all about the tax break and the personal profit. Housewives use these things to make themselves feel like they do the same amount of work a successful husband is doing and then ruin everyone’s lives in the process of it’s perceived failures. Meanwhile, they cash out and move on. Leaving people jobless and still hung on the belief they can change the world and that it was just a “bad apple” at the top that was holding them down.
Fuck. Your. Feelings.
It’s bad for a lot of things, including business and politics.
I like Lucky Gunner Labs, that’s some interesting testing they did.
As for ammo and especially SD ammo they a bit expensive If they have stock.
That being said, it’s a win for the good guys.
“If everybody “ganged up” it would barely rile him, let alone destroy him.”
Which, again, brings up the paucity of billionaires who are 2A defenders. One wonders at the reason.
Perhaps a perfect example is Elon Musk. When he came out as a right wing guy and bought twitter the left went after him with a vengeance. The guy was the richest guy on the planet, bought twitter, showed all of the left wing corruption that went on and they tried to destroy him. MSM barely covered all the nonsense that went on before the election, the BS twitter shadow banning for telling the truth and the FBI talking to Zuckerberg to keep any story about a laptop quiet on Facebook. Musk and Zuckerberg are on record and have been in interviews that if they released the info before the election, no way Biden gets elected.
They went after his cars and other right wing billionaires like Bill Gates shorted Tesla. Did they do it to make money? Perhaps but I think it’s because it was a shot at Musk. When he takes Space X public he will easily make up the $44 billion plus easily and Tesla cars isn’t going to go bankrupt, on any given day I see 4 or 5 Tesla’s driving.
The best part is the guy that was the true believer in the 1st amendment was from South Africa and not the USA. He stepped out of the lefts line and with a rigged justice system and media even having copious amounts of money aren’t going to help. We’ll see what happens in the future, I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to kill him to keep him quiet.
While that’s just a crazy theory, maybe that’s why.
“Perhaps a perfect example is Elon Musk. When he came out as a right wing guy and bought twitter the left went after him with a vengeance.”
F. Scott Fitzgerald is quoted as saying: “The rich are different from you and me.” And, Ernest Hemingway is quoted as responding: “Yes, they have more money.”
They’re punishing Elon for dissenting. They don’t maintain power by being tolerant and inclusive. Their followers are too slow to notice the gaslighting. Also, I wouldn’t call Elon right wing.
That depends on who you ask:
“Like Peterson, Musk is a right-wing culture warrior. Which is to say he is less interested in policy debates and cross-partisan outreach than he is in whipping up outrage and scoring online dunk points—all while disingenuously positioning himself as a “rational centrist” or somehow above all the partisan rancor.
He may have voted for Biden but I think it was because he didn’t like Trump.
His $44 Billion buyout of Twitter to expose the BS going on behind the scenes is very right wing and the left is and wants to punish him for it.
Keep in mind that Elon has big, personal plans for twitter. He’s mentioned that before. He’s only right wing when his personal motivations align with right wingers. I see him as an anti-authoritarian liberal that believes in free speech.
The daily beast is a left wing website. They’re smearing Musk here. They were all in love with him before he spoke out against the woke, authoritarian nonsense.
LG should sue the news agency that printed the story about the “settlement” having them concede to do more stuff that isn’t required. It’s libel, because printing untrue material about them working with everytown can have real measurable effects on their business. None of us like buying from companies that work with gun controllers – ask bill ruger, springfield armory from a couple years ago, and colt every few years
Dan Zimmerman — would you mind addressing the concerns that I’ve expressed in posts above, regarding the accuracy of this article? It appears that readers may be getting an incorrect perception of this situation.
I’m looking forward to the day Bloomberg buys it,the big room temperature fate. Satan will have some nice Companions with him.
There is an incorrect statement in the article. It was the defense attorneys who talked about the expense of defense, not the plaintiffs’ attorneys. They didn’t care about the expense. It was the plaintiffs’ objective to make the lawsuit as costly as possible with the thought of driving Lucky Gunner out of business or into bankruptcy. Can you say Remington Arms?
Under Federal Law 18 USC §922 (b)(1), it is Unlawful to sell rifle and shotgun ammunition to anyone under the age of 18, and handgun ammunition to anyone under 21.
In requiring Age Verification for all Ammunition purchases,, Lucky Gunner is complying with Federal Law. Lucky Gunner then has to comply with each State’s Laws as well. This Lawsuit around have been tossed out, because Texas’s lack of a specific law, doesn’t matter because Luck Gunner followed Federal Law regarding age verification.
The problem is, that because it’s an online/phone/mail In order, submitting a license or state ID isn’t fool proof. 12 year old Johnny can easily submit mom or dad’s ID (or any other adults), and place their order under a false identity. How is any online retailer to know? It’s only in face to face purchases, that the ID can be verified as belonging to the purchaser.
I’ve purchased from several online retailers in the last 12 to 14 years, and every single one I’ve used has require Age Verification.
There might be a small number that don’t require sending Age Verification, but I’d bet the vast majority do, just to stay in compliance with Federal Law.
Heck, I won an Ammo Give-A-Way from RMGO 8 or 9 years ago, and even though RMGO knew my DOB from my membership records, they still required that I fax a copy of my driver’s license for Age Verification to send to the Manufacturer that sponsored the Give-A-Way.
Every Big Box Brick and Mortar Store I’ve been to, asks for your ID when making ammo purchases.