Discover credit cards needs to go slogan shopping. The old ones won’t work now that the credit card financial services company has decided to go along with the newly-assigned merchant category code (MCC) for purchases at firearm retailers.
Here are Discover’s now-outdated past slogans . . .
- It pays to Discover.
- The Card That Pays You Back
- We treat you like you’d treat you.
- Here to help. Not to sell.
Somehow, they all seem disingenuous now that Discover is selling out customers using their credit cards at firearm retailers.
Discover Financial Services announced it will begin using the new controversial codes in April. Reuters reported that Discover will become the first credit card company to use the specific code for purchases at a firearm retailer.
“We remain focused on continuing to protect and support lawful purchases on our network while protecting the privacy of cardholders,” Discover said in its statement to Reuters. To date, no other credit card providers have announced they will adopt the new code.
Discover will track purchases at firearm retailers, but still won’t be able to see what is listed on the sales receipt. This was the brainchild of Andrew Ross Sorkin, a New York Times columnist who proposed that credit card companies and banks could play a pivotal role in ushering gun control outside of public policy channels.
‘Woke’ Banking on Steroids
The idea of sidestepping Congress and state legislatures to have nameless and unaccountable Wall Street banking executives monitoring and even curtailing Second Amendment rights sounded too good to pass up for Amalgamated Bank’s CEO Priscilla Sims Brown. Amalgamated Bank, a “socially-responsible” bank, pressured the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) for the specific MCC to categorize firearm retailers.
Union-owned Amalgamated is the same bank that refuses to do business with anyone in the gun industry, but bankrolls the Democratic National Committee and Political Action Committees including Biden-Harris Democrats, Ready for Hillary (Hillary Clinton’s Super PAC), Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s (D-Mass.) Warren Democrats and former U.S. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s (D-Calif.) PAC, among others.
Real Clear Investigations writer Ben Weingarten exposed the bank for what it truly is. “As the New York Times said of Amalgamated, it is ‘the left’s private banker.’”
Amalgamated Bank pressured the ISO to adopt Sorkin’s firearm retailer MCC proposal several times. The first time was in October of 2021, but was rejected. Amalgamated Bank tried again in February, 2022 but was unsuccessful. But the third time was the charm.
Sims Brown was encouraged by ISO to apply yet again in June 2022, just as Democratic Sen. Warren sent a heavy-handed letter, signed by nearly 30 U.S. senators and Congressional representatives to payment processors pressuring them to get behind Amalgamated Bank’s “woke” MCC scheme.
In September of 2022, the ISO committee declined to endorse the proposed. But this time, on the very same day the proposed was rebuffed for third time the matter was appealed to Geneva, Switzerland, where ISO is headquartered. This immediate appeal did not follow ISO’s prescribed policy for appealing matters. On that same day, ISO reversed the decision and adopted the code. This very unusual process by ISO raises serious questions about the politicization of ISO standard setting. It is something Congress should investigate.
“The new code will allow us to fully comply with our duty to report suspicious activity and illegal gun sales to authorities without blocking or impeding legal gun sales,” Sims Brown said at the time.
Suspicious activity is never clearly defined. That could be defined later since Sorkin openly said creating the codes is just “the beginning.”
Gun control advocates see this as the proverbial camel’s nose below the tent. NSSF warned that these heavy-handed backdoor intrusions into the free exercise of Second Amendment rights is alarming. Sims Brown and Amalgamated Bank, through an international standards-setting organization, is opening the door to see who is shopping at gun stores. Right now, they can’t drill down to see if a customer was buying a shotgun and ammunition or sleeping bags and a tent. NSSF is working with Congress, state legislatures and attorneys general to prevent this and protect the industry and those it serves.
The other large payment networks all announced back in September they will implement the code and will soon follow Discovery’s lead when they update their network rules.
Discover is the first credit card company to fall in line with this “woke” banking credit card code scheme. They’re just two percent of the credit card business, but they might want to use their own cards to buy new slogans. The old ones of promising not to sell out their customers no longer apply.
Larry Keane is SVP for Government and Public Affairs, Assistant Secretary and General Counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation.
Okay, class…let’s repeat today’s lesson together:
“Pay in cash, and in person, whenever and wherever possible.”
I have close relatives who think I still live in the Stone Age because I continue to pay cash for groceries, gasoline, clothing, and anything else I purchase in person. I use only a single dedicated credit card for online purchases. Those relatives repeatedly tell me I’m “missing out” on all the bennies like airline miles I could be getting if I followed a “charge everything and simply pay the statement in full each month” model. They don’t understand the privacy issue at all.
Sell it another way, you are on the Ramsey Plan.
Backdoor discrimination against decent citizens exercising a Constitutional Right is what happens when Gun Control is not defined as an agenda Rooted in Racism and Genocide. Instead of defining Gun Control by its confirmed history of rot Gun Talking beavis and butthead bigots would rather point fingers at Black like democRats point fingers at Black Rifles.
You get on that then and let me know how it works out. I will keep going with supporting the lawsuits in my area.
there are ways around this, that do not involve using cash only.
Would you elaborate? No one writes paper checks anymore, do they? And those are traceable. Use a different credit card? When all the companies are onboard with tracing firearms, which card will you use? If you know something I don’t, I’m all ears!
I still write checks for certain things, like property taxes, or DMV renewals, or annual insurance premiums, etc. It’s still a viable way to go for a number of matters.
Totally agree. You have no financial discipline if you are buying guns using credit cards. Or any other high dollar item. And it also means you, in general most likely have terrible personal finances.
The Biden economy is going down the drain. Get out of debt ASAP.
Invest in ammo and training. Also gun fighter insurance. The year 2020 made rioting OK. To the powers in charge.
I use my credit cards to pay for everything. I pay them off each month and I make $800-$1000 each year in cash back. My house and both my cars are paid off. Personal finances are very good.
This may be a dumb question, what difference does it make how you pay when you have to fill out a 4473 when you by a gun anyway?
Unless that 4473 is specifically looked at in a review, no one may ever see it at all.
Not the same with a credit card.
Private database easily searchable by multiple methods vs paper records that they need to physically see/scan that are subject to loss on occasion. Not that much of a difference but it does make it slightly harder to search if they follow the law.
The 4473 is kept at the gun store. That information stays there. Unless the individual state requires the store owners to report to the state the purchases.
That is why using cash will leave no trail.
How do they trace guns found at crime scenes?
Private cash sale in a state that doesn’t require a background check, means no 4473 or NICS check.
Tracing begins at the manufacturer, by serial number, through distributors, to retail FFL, to the first retail buyer according to the 4473 on file at the FFL. That person is questioned, then on to any subsequent buyers who can be identified.
If a gun can be traced back to me when I fill out a 4473, I’m not worried about using a credit card to pay for that gun.
If CATO was 20% as smart as he thinks he is, would be twice as smart as Joey OBiden.
And somehow I’m much much smarter and better looking than you.
“Tracing begins at the manufacturer, by serial number, through distributors, to retail FFL, to the first retail buyer according to the 4473 on file at the FFL. That person is questioned, then on to any subsequent buyers who can be identified.”
This is 100% accurate, that is how a gun trace is done.
There’s a big difference between the use of credit cards as technological convenience vs. the use of credit cards as debt instruments (which is self-destructively foolish).
The problem we’re seeing here is institutional capture by leftists. Not credit cards in and of themselves.
“The problem we’re seeing here is institutional capture by leftists. Not credit cards in and of themselves.”
Really, any stripe of Malthusian, even those who are such without knowing.
The ones who don’t know it may be the most dangerous as they tend to have enormous zeal for *the thing* and always think in a manner that centralizes power towards a Malthusian-esque goal.
My discover card says I have been using their credit card since 1986. Actually I was using it before then. That was when Sears unloaded the credit card branch of Sears Inc. I had been using discover since Sears first initiated it. I use it for all my on-line purchases. I guess I will have to use another credit card. I intend to write and tell Discover that I will no longer be using my Discover card for all on-line purchases. I suggest everyone on this list who has a discover account write to them and tell them the same thing. Too bad. Their customer service has always been excellent which is why I use them for on-line purchases which sometimes go in the pit. They have always come through for me. So they are going to track all Walmart sales in states where Wally World sells firearms? Wow. They are going to be BUSY. As far as I know, Wally World has gotten out of the firearms business in CA. They may also be out of the ammo business now inasmuch as we have to receive permission from our masters in Schitzomento to buy bullets now. I haven’t been in the WW sporting goods department since that insanity started.
Ehh, I’ve bought a lot of guns on GB. Can’t exactly directly ‘pay cash’ that way. But I did always make sure to pay with a money order instead of a card. Most of these big institutions are pretty lazy. Especially when all they really know is that I bought something from some random store.
Banks and Credit Unions have had to file SARs on large withdrawals since W was in office. So cash may be king, but the 70-ton meth-fueled gorilla that is the United States government will get you coming and going no matter what you do.
3D-printing and ECM barrels from hydraulic tubing is the way to go if you are worried about the large drug-fueled simian pretending to want you safe.
Many accounts have a daily maximum amount of cash you can withdraw at one time. There is also the federale cash transaction reporting requirement. I believe it is $600 per transaction. I could be wrong on that. I know that the feds wanted to lower it to report all cash transactions but got such a pushback from the financial institutions that they dropped that idea for now.
So, look up the trigger point for reporting cash transactions to the federales. Withdraw under that amount on a weekly basis until you have the cash you need for the purchase you want. Keep a thousand dollars on hand in cash. You should anyway in the event of some catastrophe that causes the banks to close — an earthquake that takes out the transaction processing centers. That happened in the Northridge earthquake in CA in the 90s. No transaction center, no cash, no credit card sales. I didn’t try to make any deposits as my business was shut down due to no electricity, so I was basically out of business for about 5 days until electricity came back. Most of my sales were internal credit, so I continued to do business and I didn’t take credit cards then, so cash, check and invoices.
I know there were no ATM/CC transactions because a relative was hunting about 200 miles north of Schitzomento and went into a gas station on I-5, after noticing lots of people milling around. Clerk said, “Cash only.”
My relative who hunts in remote areas where credit cards aren’t used generally, carries cash with him on hunting trips and had no problem filling up. He did have a little problem refusing making a loan to a couple of people who importuned him for cash but was merrily on his way after filling up.
never had that card…and based on this I never will….
And this is why I don’t have a Discover Card.
Perhaps “Disaster Card” would be more descriptive!
Gold is the money of Kings.
Silver is the money of Gentlemen.
Paper is the money of Peasants.
Credit is the money of Slaves.
Who you calling a Slave/Peasant? 😁
Or put the way I learned it:
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
Debt is the money of slaves.
None of these things meet the definition of “money” currently. Neither does fiat, but that’s a slightly different debate.
The reality is that you can make a very, very persuasive argument today that worldwide there is no money. Lots of asset classes, some currencies and some stand-ins for other functions of money, but no real money.
“The reality is that you can make a very, very persuasive argument today that worldwide there is no money.”
OK, how do you define ‘real money’?
I have always assumed it was something that could be used in a financial exchange between entity ‘A’ and entity ‘B’…
It’s not my definition. It’s the definition.
The definition of money is that it’s a medium of exchange, a store of value, a unit of account and that it is reasonably portable.
(Each of which can be subdivided into finer points that make up each attribute, if you like. Many like to say that to be a good unit of account, or a even basic medium of exchange money must be divisible to useful units for normal transactions. Pieces of Eight back in the day, for example or Cents in the USD.)
Fiat meets three of those but not all four, it misses store of value (which is often subdivided into the “supply” issue of fiat).
Gold and silver meet one but not the other three.
They store value but are not mediums of exchange in the modern world, are not a unit of account (rather it’s the other way around) and are not reasonably portable. This last reason is why the countries that adopted what we would call a “promissory note” in the late 1500’s rapidly eclipsed the Spanish Empire who’s King demanded everything be done in gold and silver. The Spanish power almost immediately starts to wane simply based on the speed at which payments can be made over distance.
Barter is not a unit of account, stores value poorly in the most critical markets and while it can be a unit of exchange, it’s dogshit for the purpose.
In this discussion, debt is nothing but a unit of account of transactions on one side the the ledger. Theoretical future value pulled forwards to today. It must be denominated in currency or money to even make sense.
None of these things are money.
So which digital-gold and digital-silver do you most often transact in?
Bitcoin was a thing, probably still is and plenty of drugs and guns changed hands with that medium in all but one country I was ever stationed in and all of that during the Obama years.
BTC, ETH and others are certainly still around. Reports of their demise were greatly overstated by the NoCoiner faction of that debate.
Their main uses are not drug trafficking any more than that’s the main use for the USD in cash.
The most interesting feature of the larger coins and also the privacy coins is how much they scare the shit out of governments, which was and always will be the appeal of such coins. They are, in effect, unregulatable in several senses and also and offer a competition to fiat currencies.
That said, the Coiner/NoCoiner debate is stupid on both sides because neither side asks basic questions which have to be answered before any debate can be had as to utility. That question, at base is “What is this thing?”.
As an asset class crypto’s definition is murky and often straddles multiple former definitions or falls between them, sometimes do both at the same time. And, in fact, to answer that question you often find that “crypto” is too wide a category, there being serious differences between, say, BTC, ETH and XMR which can almost certainly be defined as their own asset classes due to entirely different functionality.
“BTC, ETH and others are certainly still around. Reports of their demise were greatly overstated by the NoCoiner faction of that debate.”
As I understand it, their claims of absoloute anonymity doesn’t really apply anymore. There are folks with the resources to trace it. So that makes it increasingly risky for the folks using it convinced they are anonymous getting a very ugly surprise…
No one ever claimed that ETH or BTC offered anonymity because neither was meant to. XMR is the main privacy coin.
The others offer a public ledger and have advertised that from the jump. It’s one of the blockchain’s most enticing features if you want to use it for other things.
I mean, if you want to wipe out problems with vote tampering, an ETH-style smart contract public ledger running on a blockchain is the easy way to do that while keeping digital convenience. And if anyone does figure a way to fuck around, we might not know WHO did it right away but we know what they did and can immediately discount the fuckery from the vote totals, which is but a singular example of blockchain’s use.
lead will rule them all
Don’t forget to mix with brass and copper. Tungsten if you can afford it.
One small problem with their solution, most bad actors don’t have the credit rating to qualify for a credit card to make such legal transactions.
Yep, I’m painfully aware that is not the purpose, but this does make me feel that much better for never carrying their card.
“This was the brainchild of Andrew Ross Sorkin, a New York Times columnist who proposed that credit card companies and banks could play a pivotal role in ushering gun control outside of public policy channels.”
“This was the brainchild of Andrew Ross Sorkin,”
using “brainchild” is attributing a bit too much. more like a brain aneurysm.
You mean people do NOT use cash to buy guns in the computer age!???! WOW!WOW!
Make no mistake about all this once all the credit card companies are using this code and the next step will be to clarify what exactly you are buying and the next step will be to deny you the use of your credit card if you buy a gun or ammo. At the very least your purchase could also be forwarded to the nearest ATF office and also to the nearest police department. All documented and registered for the rest of your life. The few gun owners that have any grey matter between their ears will of course realized that they cannot sell their gun unless they go through a licensed dealer to get the gun out of their name which is backdoor registration and back door Universal Background Checks thereby bypassing the Corrupt Republican prostitutes of the NRA and bypassing Congress as well.
I might add documenting ammo sales will enable the government to know what caliber handguns you now own.
You’d certainly love to see that come to fruition, you degenerate socialist.
That doesn’t even work in Europe.
The nearest ATF field office is about 3 miles from my house and the police department is 2 miles away. I have enough ammo to last for years.
I have enough SD ammo to probably last my lifetime.
None of what you wrote even rattles me in the least bit, there is this thing called the Second Amendment just in case you haven’t heard. Nobody is scared by the BS paranoid delusions that you spout. Some might be but when they but their next gun and nothing happens what BS are you going to spout then?
If I were you I would be worried about the blowup doll that you bought that has a dick.
If it didn’t have a dick he wouldn’t know how to blow it up.
All the Police Chiefs and Sheriff’s in my area have publicly stated they will not be doing “FOLLOW UP” on Credit Card purchasing “ALERTS” from Credit Card companies relating to Sporting or Gun store purchases!!!
So your MARXIST foot soldiers “HOORAYING” will amount to nothingburger!!!
dacin doesn’t realize that the majority of ammo purchased by individuals is already not purchased with credit cards.
heck, we buy ammo in lots with multi thousands of rounds using ACH bank-bank transfers from anonymous ‘virtual wallets’ and there is no MCC code involved.
no one I know uses credit cards to buy anything firearms related, including on line. been that way for years.
Make no mistake, Duncian is a dunce.
We will still be buying and selling guns when the last Democrat has been screwed into the ground. (Yes, screwed it – they’re too crooked to bury lying flat!)
CA already has bullet sales tracking and I predict that it will prove as useful in limiting sales as printing serial numbers on bullets or registering firing pin indentations. How much money did Maryland spend on that fruitless endeavor before they finally kicked it to the curb?
Didn’t our neighbors to the north also spend a large bucketful of money on a similar misadventure?
This is one of the stupidest statements I have ever read: “The new code will allow us to fully comply with our duty to report suspicious activity and illegal gun sales to authorities without blocking or impeding legal gun sales,” Sims Brown said at the time.
Watch for lots of SWAT raids to follow up on bank reported “suspicious transactions”. News at 11.
She (Sims Brown) is an idiot. Hard to believe she made it that far in banking. Who in the world would or even could use a credit card to buy an illegal gun.
A triple affirmative actions quota hire – black, chick who obviously is mentally handicap. If a lesbo or a tranny this 1/2 assed “bank” wins the progtard grand prize.
neiowa: You posted what I was going to post. The results of “equal opportunity” regardless of ability.
that’s the excuse and its a lie. In reality they only have a legal duty to report illegal or suspected illegal activity OF WHICH THEY ARE AWARE, not hunt for illegal or suspected illegal activity or apply monitor tracking for activity of a specific category in a fishing expedition with MCC codes designed to go fishing.
me thinks there may be a some alphabet agencies already looking forward to that.
Hey, that ain’t no way to talk! Don’t you know that ALL gun and ammo purchases are “suspicious”, and that therefore ALL will be reported to the applicable authorities? Get with the [rogram Booger!
Actually there is no “legal” duty to report any activity. It is something imposed without law by some governmental agency. I doubt that congress passed any rule requiring reporting. I suspect it once again is some agency exceeding their authorized abilities and is unconstitutional.
Just talked with a supervisor in Discovers complaint department. Very nice lady, as every person I’ve talked there was. She said this was just dropped on her yesterday. She is as upset as I am, as she is also a gun owner. I explained to her I have been their customer for more than 31 years and because it’s without a doubt the best credit card company in the US but if they go thru with this I will not renew in Nov when my card expires. I will follow in I HAZ A Question, and begin paying for local purchases with cash. Very inconvenient, but very necessary. We have a sign in our gunsmith shop advising our customers to pay by check, cash or precious metals if they don’t want to be tracked. Needless to say, I’m really pissed.
“Inconvient”? There are ATMs everywhere. Get cash – spend cash.
I am going to purposely buy ammo everyday with my Discrapper Card just to see if the Almighty will report me as lunatic
I tell my old friend not to buy gunz n ammo with a credit card but he ignores me. This after the bank & muckity mucks gave him & his wife the 3rd degree about “where” he got $10000 buying a home in Indiana. As if teaching & coaching for 40 years meant nothing. I have NEVER bought anything gat related with anything but cash🙄
Every pistol I own is registered on my license. Some were card some were not. Anything else is a trawl through paperwork.
Any recommendations for a different card that is 2nd A friendly?
Also, using a credit card IS a good financial practice as long as the vendor doesn’t pass on the fee and you pay off the balance each month.
@Jeff, U S Bank may be a good choice.
I think the problem is the oligopoly of credit card payment networks (Visa/MC/Amex/Discover) and not the card-issuing banks themselves.
That was my read on it the last time this was pushed.
A credit car is NOT a “good financial practice”. It is just the OPPOSITE.
Fascist liberals are teaming with private businesses that provide essential services to force social policies on us that they can’t put into effect by the legislative process.
These bastards want to completely subjugate the rest of us.
whats the nfl
whats the nba
What’s credit card debt?
some bs that stupid people get all tangled up in.
A sub-species of debt. Debt being “presumed future value pulled forward in time”.
Used correctly, an incredibly powerful tool and something without which no society can go much past where the Egyptians arrived in ~4600BC.
Used unwisely, it’s a surefire path to self-destruction.
strych9, the job of a bank is to keep you in debt. Every bank. Any way they can. They call it interest. It’s how they make their money. It’s our yoke. Discard it at every opportunity. Just an idea.
You’re arguing a personal position against a general use case, which isn’t apples to apples.
Personal debt is quite dangerous and has been “sold” via propaganda tactics since the 1920’s. In fact, that kind of abuse, brought to you by Eddy Bernays, is a major cause of the Great Depression.
However, in the bigger sense debt is, by definition, future value (energy) pulled forward in time.
There’s nothing wrong with doing that when you do it right. In fact, it’s not arguable that current society could exist without such a function within the agricultural or fuel sectors. Agriculture’s requirement to pull value forward was noticed by the Egyptians and “loans” were and have been the answer since. Not a single person on the planet has come up with a better solution in 6600 years. (The commies tried and ended up killing 100 million people.)
No one has figured out how to plant seeds in the morning and have food by the afternoon. Ergo, we need something to cover the time gap but also spread risk so that we have people to make the investment in the first place.
This is also essentially what stock and bond markets are. They’re debt markets when you really think about it. All capital markets are.
How you apply that at the personal level is entirely different than at the corporate or societal level.
It’s also an equation that changes drastically depending on the form of currency you’re denominating the debt in. Fiat currencies possess a short term capacity to “inflate away” debt denominated in those currencies but there’s a medium and long term cost to doing that, just ask an Argentinian.
The entire history of money and currencies is one of solving problems but accidentally creating new ones over time. This is why currency and money change over time, in fact at times like the current one we arguably don’t have money, only currencies.
The current main iteration is “fiat” and that will end, we’re not at the “end of history” no matter what the Lefties in sociology departments might say. What it will not do is go backwards because that just goes back to the problems that fiat solved. If gold bugs had their way they’d kill 3/4ths of the people on the planet in a year. That’s not their intent but that’s what will happen if you “unsolve” the problems that were figured out [at scale] in the 1580’s.
How many years I been preaching credit cards are no good. Nobody listens,
One of these days and it wont be long
You’ll reach for me but baby I’ll be gone.
Your time is gonna come
‘Amen’ from the choir here. Preach on.
I’m normally a staunch capitalist, but credit card companies are pure evil and Discover is the Grand Kleagle of the bunch. Never borrow money for anything you can’t live in or drive.
You can live in a car but you can’t drive a house. Priorities. There has never been a car dealership or seller that wouldn’t take cash.
Why not get into banking and issue a credit card? Every gun site in the country would sign up. FFLs, also.
High Caliber Bank
Gunsmoke Savings and Loan
First National Bank of the 2nd Amendment
Dan’s Deposit and Loan
Your slogan can be: Bank with us; We’re loaded.”
Just a thought….
“Why not get into banking and issue a credit card”
because it would mean they would need to become a banking credit card company subject to the same standards or have an existing credit card company back theirs. it would end up being the same thing.
in the US you just can’t do it as simply as you envision.
Regulatory niceties are not the major problem.
The real issue is that you’d get crushed by the big ESG investors. You do what LifeSavior suggests and you will be in the crosshairs of multiple investment firms that each have trillions in AUM and many more than have billions.
If you survive that, they’ll simply all buy large stakes in your company and then tell you how to run it.
Time’s running out for the Right to wake the fuck up on a host of fronts.
Amalgamated Bank of Chicago is where I took out my first loan on a new car. I had a Amalgamated Bank Credit Card which was a MasterCard since I was 18. That stopped when they kept moving around and my one of my payments got lost in the mail. I had that card for major emergencies only and IF I had to charge something, it got paid off the following month,
I never kept a balance.
They lost another payment but on another site a couple of years ago there was a story about anti 2A businesses. A bunch of CEOs had signed a petition that was anti gun and sure enough Amalgamated was on there. I talked with ABOC (Amalgamated Bank of Chicago) and their parent company was Amalgamated Bank. The card was cancelled immediately.
In this economy people are hurting, I am not. I use my Capital One every month and pay it off. Why? You have to keep lines of credit open and active to have a decent FICO score. How important is that? You can have the cleanest driving record or have never made a claim with your homeowners insurance but all of the major insurance companies put more stock in your zip code and especially you credit score.
If you have an expensive car and live in a area where claims are high, your rates will reflect that.
A FICO score over 810 can be used as a bargaining tool.
Plus Cato makes a valid point. I never carry a balance, I do still write checks and I pay for a lot things with cash. former water walker pays for his gat stuff with cash, I’m sure a lot of that is Indiana. The problem is regardless of how you pay in Illinois for a gun, you go through a state FTIP check before you go through a NICS check. Nobody seems to pay attention to section A of the 4473, most are busy filling out section B.
In Illinois this how a FTIP check works: https://isp.illinois.gov/StaticFiles/docs/FSB/StatReports/FTIP transaction lifecycle.pdf
The moral of all of this? I don’t care what I pay with, I’m pretty sure the state has all the info they need even if I am using a credit card. I have one card and it’s a Capital One. It gets paid off monthly.
I owe nothing and own everything I have. I am very careful to not trigger a Form 8300 or SARS report.
You are all freaking out over nothing, you are acting like you are going to attract the ATF and FinCEN.
You’re overestimating the competence of Illinois. They are wildly understaffed & inept at administrating the vaunted FOID system. As well as being corrupt they are likely clueless about who owns what especially the dreaded ass-ault weapons. Oh and feds watch this site🙁🙄
The FTIP link always gets corrupted:
Every gun you bought in Illinois underwent this check.
You are worried over nothing, trust me on this.
The “feds” have much bigger fish to catch.
“You are all freaking out over nothing, you are acting like you are going to attract the ATF and FinCEN.”
Personally, I’m not “freaking out” about anything. But I know exactly where this is going because I bother to read what the people behind this shit publish.
Go read up on “ESG” and see what the people pushing this openly say about it and how they plan to use it.
It’s not about tracking you, you’re right that they’ve had that capacity for a very long time. It’s about controlling you in real time, as in “purchase denied”. That is a noose they intend to close around you on numerous fronts, guns included, to prevent a violent backlash when they do the same for food and medicine.
The goal here doesn’t affect you directly, you’re not the real target in the immediate. Your issues will be downstream of the real, current target, Which is the business you’re trying to buy something from. The goal is to eliminate them as an entity as well as eliminate their suppliers. Eventually leading to a point where the only guns and ammo made are sold to .gov. A war of attrition, as it were.
As elements of the Left have pointed out for over a decade now. “Maybe we can’t ban guns but what will the Right do without ammo?”. They intend to strangle a number of industries as a mechanism to control you when you lack the ability to fight back. They can’t go all “Russia 1918”, so they’ve slowed their roll a bit. But the goal has not changed.
They’ve intended to do so for over a century and they believe that they now have the tech to make it so. They’ve written about it quite openly. They still publish white papers on the subject.
Just wait until you realize their plans for SS and Medicare.
“It’s not about tracking you, you’re right that they’ve had that capacity for a very long time. It’s about controlling you in real time, as in “purchase denied”.”
For proof of that, look at what Canada did to lowly truck drivers who staged a protest. They flat froze their bank accounts… 🙁
If I were to dramatize this in a way movie buffs would get, their stated goal is a finer control than that, more along the lines of:
“HAL, dispense the medication that my mother needs”.
“I’m sorry, Dave. I can’t do that.”
“But HAL, I have the money!”
“I’m sorry, Dave but your mother hit her carbon allotment for the month when she consumed meat two days ago and using your carbon allotment wouldn’t be equitable to others”.
I mean, that’s pretty much Bernie’s “Medicare for All” plan in a nutshell. Your life has a calculated value to the State based on average money paid into the system. When you exceed that value, or are projected to, they’ll let you die. Got cash? Sorry, that’s not equitable. Willing to work harder? Sorry, not equitable.
Bernard-Shaw’s comment come to mind:
“If you’re not producing as much as you consume, or perhaps a little more, then clearly we cannot use the big organization of our society for the purpose of keeping you alive, because your life does not benefit us, and it can’t be of very much use to yourself.”
He went on to ask for a “humane gas” to liquidate the undesirable in society… the Germans gave him that a decade or so later.
The questions in all of these situations is the same. They’ve told you what they intend to do, they’ve been doing it for 150 years. The two questions you need to answer are 1. Are you going to start paying attention? and 2. What are you going to do about it?
You do realize this runs in cycles? With Obama he bought up all of the .22 and 9mm but also became the 2nd best gun salesman that ever lived. Trump never cared one way or the other until he needed votes. Then Sleepy Joe or whoever is actually running the government came up with exactly with what you wrote.
They cant attack the second amendment straight on but they can find ways around it such as ammo. Biden banned the importing of Russian ammo long before the nonsense started with Ukraine. He went after any surplus ammo from Lake City.
Primers became nonexistent and then reappeared at stupid prices. The cost of ammo went through the roof. His problem was the “protests” (riots) of 2020 and even people who leaned far left bought guns and a lot of them. He became the #1 gun salesman in history.
It is going to take a long time for our economy to recover if it fully recovers at all. This effects just about everyone and believe me people are not happy. The next election cycle will be red and even Biden has a bunch of people in his own party that want his job. I don’t have the exact numbers but he is done.
Assuming the next POTUS is a republican the power shifts once again. The problem will be the economy will still be in shambles and that POTUS will have two years to do something and then two years of a split house. Our economy will go back to 1990 levels but with a large adjustment for inflation which means there will be plenty of money to be made if you hedge against the economy.
Anyway to finish this up when Bryan Tucker at Davidson’s begins to freak out then I will get worried. Until then I won’t. ESG doesn’t bother me, that’s been around for a long time and accomplished little. They can publish what they want but that means very little in the big picture. I see the next years as a very bad time for the economy but we will still be able to buy what we want. Sports South isn’t going anywhere.
As for SS and Medicare it doesn’t effect me, I have that planned out. I knew that SS would probably be insolvent by the time I retired when I was 14 and planned accordingly. Medicare is a joke because of the ACA and the quality of care has gone way down. Remember one thing: Doctors are businessmen and all businessmen like to make money. They have been screwed over by the ACA and can be the best business men there are for a price.
There’s a saying: Don’t sweat the small stuff, just nail the big stuff.
A lot of people on here seem to be sweating the small stuff.
don’t sweat the petty stuff,
just pet the sweaty stuff.
No offense but your analysis is wanting, badly. I’ll pick two and point dissect them because I’m not writing a book here.
ESG… been around for a long time and accomplished little. They can publish what they want but that means very little in the big picture.
Demonstrably wrong. ESG accomplished little when it was small. It’s now got nearly half the world’s capital under management and THAT causes big problems when the people behind this money are “woke”. It’s also fed by nearly every state level pension plan, hundreds of billions a year.
This is why every credit card processor is on board. It’s also why there are weird books in the schools. It’s why cattle ranchers slaughter early for money now but smaller herd later on. This touches everything because the companies that are big on this, companies like Vanguard and State Street have major stakes in nearly every company that matters (and many that don’t). From publishers to food processors to medical services to pension plans, they’ve got their fingers in every pie.
The puts the board of most companies in a bind with respect to their fiduciary responsibility and good luck explaining that to a modern judge.
Ultimately, they control the interest on a business loan. That means they control who gets those loans and who doesn’t. Over time that means they control sectors of the economy. What, you think nearly every company of size picked up having a DEI department in the past five years for no reason? LOL. You think major oil companies are getting into solar panels and windmills because they work so well and present a long-term sustainable business model? ROFLMAO!
Still think it’s small and doesn’t matter? You’re just not paying enough attention.
“As for SS and Medicare it doesn’t effect me, I have that planned out.”
OK, but what about the 90% of Boomers that don’t? 33.7% are entirely reliant on SS for retirement and 90% are at least 50% reliant on it. They didn’t plan.
You think you’ll be unaffected when 90% of the the largest generation in history is dependent on FedGov for a COLA handout? You might want to think harder. That’s a massively inflationary pressure on top of half a dozen others which we cannot mitigate and cannot avoid because they’re inextricably linked to demographics baked into the cake decades ago.
The Fed can print money but it cannot print people who needed to be bore in 1975.
This has been known since 1990 yet nothing was done to fix any of it. You might ask yourself why that is. (Hint: Because knowing the future when others don’t is money in the motherflippin’ bank, son. Monetize your special knowledge and you end up like P.T. Barnum vacuuming up the money from the suckers.)
Ah the great alter of “FICO”. Nuc the “FICO” BS. If you don’t borrow from the “FICO” twats it doesn’t matter what your “FICO” is. A silly braindead circle of BS.
What do you pay in insurance premiums and what are you insuring?
IOWs Are there a few Corvettes and is your house worth 7 figures?
Do you have a company that wont immediately just deny claims?
Having a good or great credit rating saves you a shitload in premiums.
You don’t have to actually “borrow” to build your credit, just do a float.
FICO is still the benchmark, the others are just numbers.
Insurance companies pay more attention to FICO then past claims.
A claimless driver with a clean driving record with bad credit will pay more then someone with a bad driving record plus claims and a DUI that has good credit for premiums. You end up with a shit company.
Try to get Chubb insurance with a FICO score under 700.
Chubb’s insurance is shit.
I dropped them when they openly told me they were fucking me out of $22,000 just because they could.
If you’re gonna get fucked on the other end, pay less for the privilege.
“Chubb’s insurance is shit.”
I have read everything you have written and although I have taken most of it with a grain of sand, your statement is fallacious. I know this because I had my business insured with them and when the Bulls won a championship the first time it was all fun, the second time it was bit rowdier.
The third time it was pure anarchy and a group that had a very planned out mission broke into just about every business there was. When they were done most businesses in Chicago were cleaned out, they even took a safe that was full of very expensive things which was literally unmovable. They were running around with
oxy acetylene torches and sledge hammers. My locks probably lasted less then a minute and somehow they managed take my safe which I’m sure was later cracked. The safe weighed about 2000 lbs and was about 10K. What was inside was worth in excess of 100K.
After the “pros” were done the rest of the stragglers came in and cleared out my business wall to wall. They tore out my furnace and A/C, the only thing left was the carpet which was trashed. They took everything and that was pretty much the same story for every business in Garfield Park in Chicago.
The businesses that were insured had their insurance adjusters out and while most of them had major problems I had Chubb. They wrote a check on the spot for an insane amount of money and later worried about documentation and wrote another one after I supplied documentation. I’m not going to go into amounts but Chubb trying to weasel out of a $22,000 claim is pure bullshit. They pay claims that are twenty times that amount w/o batting an eye.
“I dropped them when they openly told me they were fucking me out of $22,000 just because they could.” – Completely made up bullshit, plain and simple.
Chubb doesn’t have a A++ rating because they screw people over on small claims.
“Completely made up bullshit, plain and simple.”
Well, my business records say otherwise. Strange that they sent me the documentation of it too.
Any idea why they’d do that? Nah, of course not.
Sarcasm aside, and straight on the bigger point:
Fuck you for being hypocrite and probably also too fuckin’ stupid to even understand that you are. Your comment here is the height of mendacious sophistry and reeks of emotional attachment to… an insurance agency (yikes, dude, get help).
See, your cutsie little story has exactly sweet-fuck-all to do the veracity of my comment. Both are web comment with nothing to back them up. But your web comment beats mine because reasons, huh? OK, whatever.
But then you get to start throwing slander because, again, reasons? Nah, that’s not how this works, son.
And this yarn of yours somehow, some way, shows that a company with a certain rating from the BBB is, well, flawless. Interesting. You’re arguing that Chubb is incapable of making an error or having an employee who’s just an asshole? The rating proves beyond a doubt that they do the right thing in every situation, because A++ rating, right?
Dude, seriously, what’s your daily intake of paint chips?
See, the fact that you’ll call me a liar and then use an unproven story to back your assertion that my unproven story is false is actually extremely good evidence of something.
It’s damn close to proof positive that your default mode is to argue exactly like a 22 year old Leftist on Twitter after half a dozen White Claws. This, pretty much by definition, makes you, at best, a hack. It also means you have some really serious emotional issues to get over because you’re clearly way-the-fuck too emo over a business comment.
And the even further evidence of this is that you didn’t even ask for details. Instead, you went straight after my personal credibility like a middle school girl instead of, I dunno, I’m searching for this term… uh… um… Oh, yeah “acting like an adult”.
I mean, Geico has an A++ rating on claims too but I doubt I’ll provoke the same reaction in you if I trash them. (Which I won’t because I’ve never done business with them.)
Seriously, this whole thing is what passes for intelligence in your world? Damn, no wonder the country’s fucked when it’s full of people like you.
Your keyboard preventing you from having to deal with consequences has clearly caused your balls to outgrow your brains (which probably didn’t actually take much). It’s pathetic, honestly.
Now, go ahead and tell me I’m too young to understand this or that. Maybe call me a liar again while spinning another yarn as “proof”. Or, you know, you could always go with the TTAG standby and call me a “Leftist”. Perhaps you can suggest I have an issue stemming from small genitalia or go back through my posts and find a typo to harp on. If you really wanna make a cutting comment maybe point out that I’m an arrogant ass who talks to fuckin’ much. But please, don’t do that because if you said that, damn man, I might just have to self-harm or something.
There is some good news for you though; The world’s your oyster on the web when you don’t bother to adhere to your own standards and can consider rando tangential anecdotes proof of the outcome in an unrelated incident while throwing slander out like rice at a wedding.
This means that you can have it all and a side of fries, because you’re the type of asshat that just don’t give a fuck about having an argument that hangs together. And, knowing you’re on the web, you can run your mouth all you want with no fear of any sort of consequences other than an overly long and poorly worded retort like this one.
I do have a couple questions though. Does it bother you to know that, in between snacks of paste and naps, the short bus kindergarteners can find the holes in your logic? Or is it the way they openly tell you that you’re the slow one that gets under your skin?
Discover is DESCRIMINATING against law abiding citizens. Well, I won’t use my Discover card anymore. And at 15.24% interest, I won’t miss using it.
Their goal (really the intentions of their major investors/owners) is to put you in a modern version of Logan’s Run. You think they give a fuck about discrimination?
“You think they give a fuck about discrimination?”
They care very deeply, their friends get a pass, their enemies can’t buy groceries… 🙁
They care deeply about 1/discrimination (discrimination^-1) when you define it the way most do.
That’s an entirely valid way to look at it. Good point.
If you have to use credit, you can’t afford it.
OTOH, if you manage to time it right, maxing yourself out on debt for useful shit just before the collapse of society would put you lightyears ahead and keep you debt free…
lol. Better time it perfectly!
Was it Harlan Ellison? Wrote a story about the apocalypse rearing its ugly head. The main character saw it coming so he went wild. Killed his boss. Raped the attractive woman next door. Ran wild.
And then the apocalypse did not happen.
Just a question: Am I wrong to wonder how may BGs buy their gats with credit cards? I kept hearing about the river of steel flowing North out of the south carrying thousands of stolen or otherwise improperly purchased firearms that were then sold in the streets of the Great Urban Sprawl. But no, they are really buying them at the local guns store with Discovery cards. How could I have been so wrong?
Credit card companies allow ATM cash withdrawals…
They sell baggies of ______? (not vegetables)
Dehydrated eggs! They’re worth more than fent laced coke! Hell, worth more than pure coke!
Jokes aside, the cartels are smuggling eggs across the border these days. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
For future reference.
The private sale of firearms between individuals is not recorded. You’re not required to do a background check. But I would suggest that you use one of the private sources to perform a background check, on the individual who wants to buy your guns. You don’t have to report it. But it would give you some peace of mind that you are selling your guns to an honest person.
Private companies use these same private systems to perform background checks on potential employees all the time.
“For future reference. The private sale of firearms between individuals is not recorded.”
That entirely depends on the state in question. There are states that require private sales be recorded…
Illinois is now one of those states, Indiana is not.
“There are states that require private sales be recorded…”
As my friend in High School often said; “Rules are meant to be broken”.
Something something Rule of Law requiring the population to internalize the law because it lines up with reality and/or morality… something something obliged vs obligated something.
it is wonderful when like minded right thinking individuals share contempt for the same entities and perform a mutually beneficial exchange. and one of them is not a fed.
and one of them is not a fed
The avoidance of flies in the ointment should be considered a high priority.
Did you see todays story about how the FBI has a bunch of people they basically covered for on everything from losing an M4 duty weapon to wife beating to DUI to nearly unspeakable acts involving minors? Mostly they’re still FBI agents too.
It depends entirely upon the State, though I would add it’s nearly impossible for the State to enforce the “Law.”
Commierado adopted the Universal Background Check in 2013. Unless the Seller is stupid enough to advertise their sale on a forum or somewhere the authorities can monitor, I know private sales are still going on without the background check in the State.
SELL a gun? Is that a thing? Sounds immoral. Do you kill kittens also?
By the barrel-full I’m sure.
What is so wrong with their slogans? Once you erase the invisible ink…
It pays to Discover [what guns and ammo you’ve been buying].
The Card That Pays You Back [by sharing your info with the PoPo without telling you].
We treat you like you’d treat you [if you REALLY had nothing to hide and nothing to fear].
Here to help [the police]. Not to sell your info to the highest bidder].
just makes me think of sears and allstate.
someone told me they charge business an extra % point.
All part of the plan people. Nothing will change what is coming. Delay, maybe, but stop the inevitable, never. Our Republic is too far gone.
The credit card for poors is now helping take away the rights of poors.
That said, other card companies are doing this too. Amex, Visa and Mastercard.
Mastercard is definitely the worst offender at this point. They don’t just use such a merchant code they already attach a “climate score” in “pounds of carbon” to every purchase you make for which they have “metrics”.
Also, for research purposes I recommend sites like
Who has a huge stake in Discover Financial?
Well, the largest single shareholder, dwarfing all others is Acadian Asset Management, LLC. with 824,892 shares.
What does AAM do? Well, obviously they’re an asset management company but if we look at their website they’re really big on three things. Equity, Decarbonization and ESG.
To quote them on their ESG “prowess”: “Based on our data science toolkit, we engage with companies in relation to three ESG themes that are integrated into our investment process, Climate Action, Corporate Culture, and Corporate Behaviour, as well as other ESG-related controversies that pose financial risk to companies that we own.”
Y’all starting to see a trend here? Like maybe how forces are arrayed against you? Starting to wonder why I ask questions like “How does transnational shipping affect your 2A rights?” all the time?
Next new gun purchase, I’ll try a little experiment.
I’ll pick up a prepaid Visa/MC at a gas station, and use it at the gun store…
You’ll do better researching the term “turnkey tyranny” and then looking at where the turnkey aspects are spreading, with alarming speed, because no one is paying any fucking attention.
Off the point of the article; but for those who so roundly criticize using credit cards or having any debt, look at the big picture. if you pay the balance off each month so you don’t pay any interest or fees to them, you are essentially using them as a 0% loan for whatever your average monthly balance is and getting cash back. second point, during high periods of inflation, you are repaying with money worth about 8% less (annual basis). for example, you borrow $1 million locked in at 3.5% (about two years ago). with 8% inflation, you are effectively repaying each 100 cents with 92 cents plus 3.5 cents interest. you’re ahead 4.5 cents… if you don’t actually need all the money, you lock it into a CD paying 4%. you’re making money on their money. unfortunately though that $100 in cash you put under the mattress a year ago is now only worth $92 in actual buying power…
almost nothing is ever as simple as we’d like.
Credit card rates mostly float based on the Fed rate, so you need to be quick to outrun the rise in interest rates on CC debt. Doable but you need to be on the ball, which most people are not.
That said, judicious use of credit is what makes a society function, it’s not possible without such a feature. You’re discussing using credit correctly, mostly, people don’t do that for a variety of reasons. The worst offenders often being the people who, on paper, should be the best users of credit.
Poor Gullible Nieve Sucker.
“if you pay the balance off each month so you don’t pay any interest or fees to them, you are essentially using them as a 0% loan for whatever your average monthly balance is and getting cash back.”
Credit card companies have a name for people like you, they call them ‘deadbeats’, since they’re not making any money off of you. Some card companies have ‘fired’ card holders that way. I’ve heard having a very small balance, that you could easily pay off lessens that possibility…
One of the best uses of a credit card for normies is the “purchase” of credit score points to drive down the cost of a loan you may actually need.
Carry a few hundred interest for six months, paying it it enough that the balance stays even and then pay it off entirely sort of thing. Not a major debt to be carrying if anything else goes wrong, and if it goes right, easily payable at a predictable cost.
You usually need one to rent a car. They often cover the rental insurance as well.
Damn, out of sight out of mind. I can’t remember the last time I rented a car in the US. …2014 maybe?
good info about discover ownership.
Credit is for people that want more shit then they can afford.
Quite true, ‘Marsupial One’. As Strych commented above, it can be a powerful tool that can keep someone out of bankruptcy, if they use it wisely.
Unfortunately, far too many bury themselves in hole they may never crawl out of…
Or those willing to take a risk for a larger reward but need a backer to do it because the up front costs might be way, way less than the return but they don’t have the capital on hand.
The alternative to this is a Russian style oligarchy. Rich people are the only ones who can afford to do anything and everyone else is just fucked. Think post-USSR around 1997.
It’s always amusing to me to hear someone say something like “Debt is evil and you should never have it! I pulled myself up by the bootstraps, starting my own company with nothing but a small business loan from my local bank and my wits!”.
There are, broadly speaking, two types of debt. One’s just debt, normally called “unproductive debt”. The other we call “investment” (productive debt) and we do this at a huge scale. This is what we created capital markets for. For all the hoopla, at base, stocks and bonds are loan you’re giving a company. The terms of the loan may vary, but the principles of this being a loan do not.
Today from Obiden. Who apparently know no normal Americans.
“While Pitching Himself as Enemy of Credit Card”
They always say the opposite of reality because they think we’re stupid. Who can blame them for thinking that? People actually voted for that evil, senile puppet. He was well known for being an advocate for credit card companies while he was in the senate.
Don’t have a Discover Card®, don’t need a Discover Card® and will never have one either. I have three cards, each carries a 10k limit and I owe ZERO on all of them. Discover can SMD.
There’s more to it than just Discover offering the code. The credit card processor, not the credit card company, assigns the MCC. Discover is now making the new MCC available, but it doesn’t mean that it’ll be treated any differently that the current MCC of 5999, which means specialty retailer, or 5941 for sporting goods, or some other possible codes. Some codes for some processors are considered high risk because of fraud, charge backs, etc. Lots of codes are high risk, including airlines, furniture stores, drug stores, health clubs, and video games. 5999 is usyally high risk since it’s generic, and 5941 isn’t, so 5941 will have lower fees to the store. Whether a processor assigns the code, or if it’s classified as high risk is unknown. A gun retailer that doesn’t want to be associated with the new code could ask for one of the alternatives, or go find a different processor if they insist on assigning the new code.
The issue being that this is a game of dominos (the one where you push one over to knock down the others, not the betting game).
This is slowly but surely removing the guardrails. Paypal is the largest processor on the planet. Look what they’ve been up to recently (actually for a while but they recently got caught).
Now look at your top five. In order, Paypal, Stripe, Amazon Pay, Google Pay, Apple Pay. There are loads of others too but the volume drops drastically once you get out of the top five. And many are known for, shall we say “liberal” political leanings. Square and Circle for example. Shit, Square was started by Jack Dorsey and a partner.
There is a reason that many gun and gear companies want out of dealing with these processors. They can see the writing on the wall. There’s also a reason they don’t leave.
I asked the crowd about this a few months ago after a discussion I had with a fairly large gear company about PayPal. They disliked the service immensely due to politics, but it worked and they couldn’t afford a major fuckup on a order for, say, a police department. Pretty big gear company too if you’re into guns. Today they have a new capacity to just take cards via an alternative processor but they still have PayPal for those “it can’t get fucked up” contract orders.
Anyone who remembers Operation Chokepoint knows where this is going. The removal of guardrails means that it’s only a matter of time. We’re on the road to the destination but we’re not there yet. And now the control of such things is mostly in the hands of the unelected in corporations that can get a lot of money today for policies that are not good longer term investments. Ideological capture via money is a problem across a host of domains and to argue otherwise is a result of a lack of attention. The list of major corporations doing really dumb shit because of this pressure is quite large and these are the richest companies in the world that are caving.
If i owned a gun store. Id set it up as 2 separate entities,
1st the Gunstore that sells guns
2ed the “gift store” that sells gift cards that can only be used in the “gunstore”
Or have a bullion store
Come buy x weight in gold or silver then go other side of store to buy said gun priced at x weight in gold or silver
No need to track. I’m one of those (fill in the blank). I’m right here. Just ask me and I’ll tell you because I’m not hiding because I’m not doing anything wrong.
Discover is a world leader in stinking. Didn’t they drop a bunch of standard credit card benefits four years ago? The economy was doing well so they were making less money.
In my 20’s I accumulated some debt, although less than 5 grand, It taught me a good lesson. If you owe money, you are a slave. Since then, I started using all cash. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. I do have a credit card, but only one for emergency use only, like a transmission failing 600 miles from home, etc. Using cash only has taught me I can live very well and not worrying about debt. By using cash any large purchase is always open to negotiation. I never pay full price for anything. It also taught me to do things for myself, putting new roof on the house, fixing my car, repairing plumbing, etc. And now the best part, It taught responsibility, never have to make payments. Kind of like paying myself every month.
I’m sure that all the gang bangers, serial murderers, terrorists and armed robbers will be using their Discover Cards and filling out the appropriated paperwork to obtain their firearms legally. Another end-run around the Second Amendment. About paying cash….that’s why the Commies are so adamant about switching to crypto currency. That way, they can track EVERY purchase and PREVENT purchases of certain items that the Commie government doesn’t want you to get.