What Gun, What Ammo, and What to Do Now

Jon Wayne Taylor shotgun coronavirus

JWT for TTAG

We are all getting a lot of advice these days. Some of it is even good advice.

If you are reading someone telling you what to carry, how much ammunition you should be comfortable with, or how you will behave in a gunfight, and they have not actually been in a gunfight themselves, much less prolonged combat with multiple aggressors. By all means, keep reading those articles. Keep reading them, but please understand you’re reading for entertainment only, because there’s no real valuable information there at all.

Here’s what you can do in this time of crisis — and just about any other — from someone who’s been there.

Carry a gun. - JWT, circa 600BC (image courtesy JWT all rights reserved.)

Rule #1: Carry a gun. JWT, circa 600 BC (image courtesy JWT all rights reserved)

Folks who read TTAG will know I have some experience in this subject. There is some value in the fact that I’ve had multiple combat deployments, and have been in direct fire at ranges from 15 yards to way-on-out-there. I’ve been attacked by known opponents and “friendlies” alike, and with all sorts of weapons.

But what’s actually valuable is my work as an Army medic, EMT, firefighter, and in search and rescue, as well as swift-water rescue. I’ve worked disasters in this country and well as others, and I’ve worked in 1st World and 3rd World countries. I’ve been a shelter manager.

I’ve seen societies pull together and I’ve seen them tear apart. I’ve lived through hurricanes and floods and survived just fine. What I say here comes from that actual experience.

There are some things that make a big difference.

You should always carry a gun and know how to use it well. But what gun? Any gun you know how to use well.

How much ammo? As much as you can carry on your person. That’s it. It’s that simple.

What should you do if you already have thousands of rounds? You should shoot some of them. That’s what they are for. Practice. Keep in reserve what you can carry on your person.

Just as important, get to know your neighbors and know your environment. There is still time for that. You might have to do it by phone, email, or just waving and talking from a (social) distance, but get to know the people within a short walk from your home. They are the people who are most likely to help you and the people most likely to be a threat. Either way, you need to know them.

Stay in regular contact with your friends and family. They may need help. You may need help. Help each other. A simple daily email, text, or call has been the difference between life or death many, many times.

Help your neighbors any way you can. (image courtesy JWT all rights reserved.)

Help your neighbors any way you can. (image courtesy JWT all rights reserved)

Serve your community. If you are available to deliver food, deliver food. Call your church and ask them how you can help. If you don’t go to a church, call any church and ask them how you can help out.

Food pantries need a lot of help right now. Call the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, anyone you can think of and get involved. If you are in a small rural community, call the fire department and ask them how you can help.

Beyond just being a decent human being, there are sound strategic reasons for the above. The people around you are either assets or they are threats. If you engage with them and you pay attention, they are certainly sources of intelligence.

They may also be sources of assistance if you are in need. Every one of those people is also a possible threat. They are much more likely to be threats if they are desperate. Desperate people do desperate things.

In general, people who are fat and happy are less likely to rob you. They are also much more likely to help the person who helped them than the stranger they don’t know and are wary of.

Know when to fold 'em. (image courtesy JWT all rights reserved.)

Know when to fold ’em. (image courtesy JWT all rights reserved)

Finally, always be ready and able to leave. The best advice I ever heard was from Charlie Brown’s Linus, when he said “Nothing is so big and so scary it can’t be run away from.” Even in this environment, you should have a way to leave where you are if it is no longer safe.

Plan on how to leave, where to go that’s safer, and how to get there. When you decide you aren’t safe where you are, go right then to that safer place.

If you don’t have 2,000 rounds on hand for each gun you own and you’re not scrambling for more in empty stores, consider yourself lucky. You now have an opportunity to spend that money filling your gas tank and helping other people, options that are far more likely to actually make a difference in your own safety.

comments

  1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    Another reason to serve your community:

    When you get out and serve your community (especially with first responders), you learn things.

    More specifically, you learn things that politicians, bureaucrats and others are not telling the public.

    1. avatar AndrewinVA says:

      +100

    2. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      That’s what Selco Begovic said. His black market friend knew more than his (upper) government worker friend did. I know all my neighbors. So do my kids.

    3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      More specifically, you learn things [when out serving your community] that politicians, bureaucrats and others are not telling the public.

      This is most important.

      My small business puts me in somewhat intimate communication with about 100 families in my community. Here is what I have learned:

      (1) Two of my contacts are physicians at a major regional hospital. They informed me that they expect over 600 Corona virus patients in their Intensive Care Unit within three weeks. (Hint: they don’t have 600 ICU beds. They have begun attempting to convert as much of the hospital as possible to accommodate that influx.)

      (2) One of my contacts works for a well-known federal government agency involved with law enforcement/security. They literally have no plan whatsoever and are writing their playbook day-by-day. They have no special cache of reserve resources (whether human power, supplies, or technology). Their agents no longer go to their federal offices and deploy. Instead, those agents stay at home and deploy from their homes.

      (3) One of my contacts informed me that over 10% of the police force at an NFL city (e.g. a city large enough to have an NFL football team) is now forced to stay at home in self-quarantine. They expect significantly more to self-quarantine. This will be bad.

      I would not know any of the above (or the additional information that I omitted for the sake of brevity) if I did not interact with over 100 families in my community. Not only have I learned important information, I have also cemented relationships and most of them will be allies if society crumbles. That will be even more valuable because it provides a ton of options that I would not otherwise have for me and my family.

    4. avatar Military Veteran says:

      Serving with first responders especially LEOs also gives you access to something you might
      not be able to get should things head south fast.

      Their cop car/SUV many of with are loaded out with weapons and other gear.

  2. avatar James says:

    2000 rounds? Per gun? Under what scenario would a civilian need even 100 rounds?

    I’m all for having ample ammunition supplies, but the truth of the matter is that NO ONE is going to be firing more than a mag or two between now and the end of the corona crisis. Even police and national guard won’t be firing off hundreds of rounds each.

    Yes, be prepared, but the current ammo shortages are due to people who are being told they need thousands of rounds to defend themselves.

    1. avatar John Hull says:

      Do you have any idea how many rounds it will take to stave off an attack by multiple assailants? What if the situation lasts for months or even years instead of just a few weeks? If you’ve never been in a firefight, you have no clue about just how fast you can go through all your ammo, even if you practice good fire discipline. The best thing to do is avoid situations that require such action altogether if at all possible. Something else to consider is that if things really go south, having sufficient ammuntion to defend yourself is only part of the equation. If you have enough, you may be able to use some of it for purposes of bartering for things you don’t have but need, such as meds. I hope to God most of you people never have to find out just how bad things can get.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “Do you have any idea how many rounds it will take to stave off an attack by multiple assailants?”

        I’m trying to be realistic – If I’m in a firefight with “multiple assailants” I showed up at the wrong damn firefight. We have guns, but we’re not looking for a conflict.

        What I’m doing now is a self-quarantine looking after my 85 year-old dad. We are minimizing exposure to the outside world as much as possible, and right now, that means a supply run once a week or so.

        A local grocer (one of the better ones) is reducing hours of operation and opening the first hour each day to the elderly only. We’re planning on taking advantage of that.

        In my local podunk county, we have 11 cases, with 4 of those hospitalized. For Floridians, bookmark this page, it’s a breakdown county-by-county in Florida of the cases, there’s probably a version of this for your state :

        https://fdoh.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/8d0de33f260d444c852a615dc7837c86

        1. avatar John Hull says:

          Not to burst your bubble, but what do you do if things get really bad? You may be at home when three or four or ten thugs show up wanting to take whatever supplies you may have, and don’t give a damn what condition you or your dad might be in when they leave. It doesn’t take that much to push things over the edge. We’ve got plenty of historic examples to prove that. You mention the store early open for seniors, which is a laudable thing the owner is doing. But what happens when the work gets around? What is he, or you, going to do if a bunch of people show up demanding to be let in? Call me a cynic, but I’m ready to deal with such a situation. Are you?

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Yeah, I plan to take Publix up on the “early bird special” this week, only 12 cases in Volusia so I’m not too worried about the WuFlu, but they may have some esential stuff restocked….

        3. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

          John Hull, at some point we can all be overwhelmed and destroyed, even you. You too are deluding yourself if you think you have have enough to stave off any possible attack. Do you have a fortified compound with scores of tier one operators, heavy weapons and 18 months of supplies? If not, then you haven’t prepared enough;-) Maybe also James will live and you will die because he has hospital respiratory machine and you don’t.

        4. avatar John Hull says:

          Well, maybe I won’t survive, who knows? But, its been my experience that organized attacks by military types or law enforcements aren’t likely to happen, but will likely be a bunch of scumbags looting neigborhoods and preying on those who can’t defend themselves. Those I can handle, and am prepared for. I can guarantee they won’t enjoy the experience if they come to my door.

        5. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

          I kept stockpiling ammo until I asked my self how many firefights can I as an individual expect to survive. One or two if I’m lucky. I stopped at 2000 rounds for the AR. I hope to never use them in anger

        6. avatar Frank says:

          “You mention the store early open for seniors, which is a laudable thing the owner is doing. But what happens when the work gets around? What is he, or you, going to do if a bunch of people show up demanding to be let in? Call me a cynic, but I’m ready to deal with such a situation.”

          So you’re going to shoot the people trying to force their way into the store during seniors-only hours?

          Wow, just wow.

        7. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “Not to burst your bubble, but what do you do if things get really bad?”

          Feel free to gear-up to your heart’s content, pal.

          Tell you what – If the massing hordes finally get me, I won’t come crying to you, OK? 😉

        8. avatar GS650G says:

          You don’t need to shoot them all. Just make a mess of one or two, preferably the biggest and boldest ones.

          See how many want to continue the fight. These are not soldiers under command. They are not going to be led or motivated by the same means.

        9. avatar tdiinva says:

          #John Hull.

          That is why JW said get to know your neighbors. That gang of armed thugs will decide to go somewhere else when confronted by an armed and prepared neighborhood. The kind of person who takes advantage of a temporary WROL situation doesn’t want to take a bullet.

        10. avatar punny says:

          thank you for the website

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          YEP….

      2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        YEP…

      3. avatar Frank says:

        “If you’ve never been in a firefight, you have no clue about just how fast you can go through all your ammo, even if you practice good fire discipline”

        Please provide ONE example of a firefight in the United States that you’ve been and a round count. Wannabe warriors like you are the worst.

        1. avatar John Hull says:

          Well, a teenager took his dad’s rifle and a 30 rd mag and saved himself and other family members when three armed home invaders came calling. That was in the news just a few weeks back. He killed two of them and drove off the third, only had a couple rounds left. That sort of thing happens on a fairly regular basis in this country, but since the media is anti-gun, you seldom hear about it. It ain’t about being a wanna be warrior, slick, its about me and mine staying alive and the other dumb bastards being dead.

        2. avatar Darkman says:

          Make no mistake. Once the Shit starts flying and the claymores start popping. Any fool coming for my SHIT will be food for the rats,cats and stray dogs. Thugs are thugs. Even they haven’t seen that kind of a world of hurt in their gang bang spray and pray shoot’em ups. Nothing like a few dead bodies laying around to deter the next bunch. Hopefully it never comes to that. Being prepared never hurt anyone. Be Safe Maintain OP SEC and as always Keep Your Powder Dry.

        3. avatar tdiinva says:

          Oh. So 25 rounds per engagement are enough. So, with my 2500 round of 556 I am good for a 100 gunfights. If I survive 100 man will be a badass. Whoopee.

        4. avatar Frank says:

          “Well, a teenager took his dad’s rifle and a 30 rd mag and saved himself and other family members when three armed home invaders came calling. That was in the news just a few weeks back.”

          No, that was three years ago in March 2017. And you’re making my case that you don’t need thousands of rounds for home defense.

        5. avatar Frank the WalMart Shill says:

          Pretty sure “Frank” is one of the resident liberal shills here rebranded. If you read enough of his posts it’s pretty.

      4. avatar Hannibal says:

        This is not the ‘zombie’ situation that preppers cream themselves to every night. None of y’all is mad max. Bad guys looking for stuff are not going to conduct a coordinated assault on your fortified compound with ninjas dropping in. They’re gonna go rob your elderly neighbor who doesn’t shoot back.

        1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

          “preppers cream themselves to every night” This is a delta bravo comment.

          I don’t know any preppers that actually wish for the bad. The people I know prep just in case the bad comes knocking.

        2. avatar tdiinva says:

          I am an elderly neighbor and I shoot back.

    2. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      you haven’t seen enough movies.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgz-CKRzs-4
      a simple thompson can fire ten thousand rounds in under thirty seconds.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        The never-empty drum mag, a fantasy, just like the “Never-Ending Bowl” from my way back smoking daze.

        Come to think of it, I liked DeNiro back then, now I hate his sanctimonious guts with a passion.

        Get CoVID and die drowning in your own phlegm, DeNiro… 🙂

        1. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

          I approve your DeNiro rant.

      2. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        aas do i, but he wasn’t anywhere near that coen film.

    3. avatar jwm says:

      The worst part of stocking to the rafters in ammo is that if you do have to go mobile you’ll leave most of it behind for someone else to take.

      Firearms are used for many different jobs. hunting. Target practice. Trap and skeet. Some folks make these events into social gatherings. A truly great way to spend time.

      But just in the scope of self defense in a shtf situation firearms are needed. But not a safe full and not a warehouse full of ammo. Every adult in your home should have at least one concealable handgun and one solid long gun, shotgun or rifle, for protection of self and loved ones.

      I have more weapons, of course, but for self defense I have a j frame and a g19 in the pistol department. My long gun is a shotgun. 15 rounds of premium self defense ammo for the j frame. 3 standard capacity mags for the g19 also loaded with hollowpoints. My shotgun has a stand by load out of 75 rounds of buck shot.

      As a non sworn person and a non soldier i will likely never need any of it. But I have a right to protect myself and those around me.

      If I need a tractor trailer full of ammo I’m not likely to live long enough to shoot it all.

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        “…..if you do have to go mobile you’ll leave most of it behind for someone else to take…..”
        With some planning and a properly modified RV, a HELL of a lot of ammo (and firearms) can be mobilized in SHORT order. I don’t own a few large safes of firearms, and lots of ammo, to just “leave it”, should the need arise.
        Several RV customizers in Texas are well know for adding gun safes and ammo storage lockers to Airstream RVs.
        I just got mine back 2 weeks ago after several upgrades, was planning on a trip to Florida for the Sebring 12 Hour and WEC 1000k. The event was cancelled, but the RV is ready to roll hard. Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat.
        Those 2 weeks last month I was mostly dark on TTAG saw several upgrades to by home, vehicles, and RV.
        Gee, I DO hope that’s classified as “humblebrag” by the basement dwelling short-pant soilers (aka; salad tossing troll farm).

        1. avatar napresto says:

          Kind of just a brag, actually. You do you.

        2. avatar James Campbell says:

          “Kind of just a brag, actually. You do you.”
          This is “The TRUTH About Guns”.
          Would be hard to talk “truth” about guns without explaining how ALL firearm owners ACTUALLY live their lives around guns. A “comfortable” owner might have some ideas others can use, too bad the “Green eyed monsters” usually jump in.

        3. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Don’t want to drag a trailer around so I removed the 2nd and 3rd row seats and console from my 04 Navigator, nice deep well covered with two sheets of 1/2 inch plywood and factory appearing carpet, room for thousands of rounds, half a dozen long guns.. front console holds 1500 rounds extra handgun ammo… Still have normal cargo area for tent, bedrolls, tabletop grill, camp stove, food, water, 12 volt fridge.. With supercharged 5.3 makes 400 HP and 4×4 says I go where I want… 230 amp alternator says run what I want..

      2. avatar Waylon says:

        That’s why you bury multiple caches of ammo and supplies like hajj 😉

        1. avatar arc says:

          Nailed it.

          Wouldn’t hurt to store a can or two with some trusted friends, so you aren’t using theirs up if you need to jump ship.

        2. avatar James Campbell says:

          This is done by my group of firearm friends.
          I have a few 100 rds of 50BMG in my ammo safe, stored for a “friends” Barrett.

    4. avatar CCDWGuy says:

      I’m not sure where you think 100 rounds is all one will need. I practice at the range just about every week with at least 2 different pistols and a rifle. I put at least 50-100 rounds through each pistol and depending on the rifle another 50+ rounds. My goal is to have at least 5,000 of every common caliber that I shoot and a whole lot more 22LR and 223/5.56 just to stay proficient. I try to purchase two boxes for every one that I shoot on a regular basis.

      Good luck with trying to become capable with only 100 rounds. That is a losing strategy.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        “I’m not sure where you think 100 rounds is all one will need. I practice at the range just about every week with at least 2 different pistols…”

        You do not need to do that. You’re not a navy seal. You’re not engaging multiple tangos at 100 yards.

        You want to practice every week and expend hundreds of rounds? Cool. You got yourself a hobby, not a necessity.

        1. avatar Ron says:

          Some of y’all are starting to sound like the Anti’s with all your arbitrary numbers on how much ammo is appropriate. The right amount of ammo is exactly how much I think I need.

          I’ll have as much ammo as I damn well please, because I’m a goddamned American, and I give a fuck what your opinion is on it.

        2. avatar Toni Smith says:

          Exactly my sentiments Ron and i am not American but an Aussie who has always had rather a fondness for liberty American style. The only way you get good with a gun (dont care what sort) and minimize unnecessary and innocent casualties is to practice, practice and practice some more and then when you are tired of practicing practice some more again. Sure there is a certain amount you can do without ammo (dry fire drills) but some of it needs ammo. The more practice you put in the better your chances are of putting food on your families table and defending them against the assholes that want to take everything you have. Those of you that dont wish to stock up on ammo, and dont take the time to practice, that is your prerogative but those of us that do take it seriously quite likely wont be nearby to help out when needed. It’s on your shoulders

    5. avatar OBOB says:

      hummm now go back in time to Los Angles during the 92 riots and say that again….

      Been there and have the T-shirt!

      1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

        +1 (Doesn’t anyone else remember the LA riots?)

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          some of us remember that…and a whole lot more…random gunfire, usually at night…the occasional flare…people holed-up in their neighborhoods, frequently banding together..[with weapons]..yeah that all happened here…not just in LA……going through something like that…even once…is enough to make you an ardent gun-rights supporter….

      2. avatar DJ says:

        Exactly.

        I lived the 12th Street Riot 1967 Detroit.

        No one is coming to rescue you. If civil unrest was to last for weeks or months then what?

        We shot a lot of ammo in Nam. You can NEVER have too much ammo.

        Frankly 100 rounds and two or three magazines was funny. Better fix bayonets.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Better fix bayonets.

          Or grab an E-tool… Great hand to hand weapon.. Worked at Liberty Bridge…

        2. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

          @Madmax I carry a 2 foot long gardening shovel in my car. Ready for removing snow, dirt, or whatever other scum needs moved out of the way.

        3. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          BUT, does it have a sharpened pick built in… whatever is there when you need is the right tool for the job….

        4. avatar Paul says:

          I’m not old enough for ‘Nam, but my squad leader was. When he calmly said “Fix bayonets!”, I got a feeling I had NEVER felt before. I wasted half a heartbeat wondering if all my affairs were in order . . . Then I got about the business of putting other people’s affairs in order.

    6. avatar James Campbell says:

      “James says:
      March 22, 2020 at 14:08
      2000 rounds? Per gun? Under what scenario would a civilian need even 100 rounds?”
      This fudd has NOTHING to worry about.
      His phone has a “5🌟” button that connects him to HIGHLY trained agents, who will get him help in ANY emergency, big OR small.
      ALWAYS trust the “5🌟” button fudds!

      1. avatar Frank says:

        If you want to stockpile ammo for practice, great – that’s what I do. But in an emergency, you’re not going to need 2000 rounds per gun to defend yourself.

        There are people who want to buy guns and ammo to defend themselves and (maybe even) join the pro-RKBA ranks but can’t because people who already have a ton of ammo are hoarding even more (which they don’t need to defend themselves).

        If wanting people to have access to guns and ammo to defend themselves is your definition of a “fudd,” perhaps you need to spend some time away from your keyboard.

        1. avatar Ron says:

          Saying “no civilian needs more then 100 rounds” is the stone cold definition of a FUDD.

      2. avatar Frank says:

        There are people who want to buy guns and ammo to defend themselves and (maybe even) join the pro-RKBA ranks but can’t because people who already have a ton of ammo are hoarding even more (which they don’t need to defend themselves).

        If wanting people to have access to guns and ammo to defend themselves is your definition of a “fudd,” perhaps you need to spend some time away from your keyboard.

      3. avatar George Washington says:

        Now THAT was funny lol

    7. avatar Debbie W. says:

      RE: 14:08
      James, James, James you silly rabbit…It’s not the Bill of Needs. It is the Bill of Rights. That means it is none of your damned business how many rounds of ammo someone has, etc. Now Sit Down.

    8. avatar Anymouse says:

      2000 rounds is 3-4 months of practice for me, but I don’t need it for every caliber. A class that was delayed by the panic would have used another 1k over 2 days. Buying by the case (best deals) means I have 1-3k on hand, not counting defensive ammo. I’ll buy extra if there’s a sale because it doesn’t go bad and I know I’ll use it fairly soon. If there’s a drought, I might switch to something different for practice, so having a case for each of those is good too. I know an IDPA master who shoots 2k a month, so his stock is more like 10k for his main caliber.

    9. avatar Ron says:

      There’s a lot of hate for gun owners on this site.

    10. avatar Someone says:

      “Under what scenario would a civilian need even 100 rounds?”

      Some people have really short memories.
      If this craziness drags, there might not be any ammo regularly at stores for months or even for years. Like the 2013 drought.

      No one expects firefights where he needs to shoot 2000 rounds to defend against wave after wave of attackers. But some of us like to go to shoot some targets every couple of weeks. I could go through 2000 rounds in few months even if I restrain myself. That’s why I have more than that and components ready to make more.

    11. avatar Mitch says:

      A lot of FUDD talk around here.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        that’s ’cause they haven’t been through something like that…the old “it can’t happen here” mentality…chances are you’ll never need all of that…but it’s still comforting to have it….

    12. avatar arc says:

      A combat loadout is 180 rounds of 5.56 and that won’t last very long. Extra mags are a must, there is also no resupply once the shooting starts, you are your own resupply and what you have is what you have.

      If I need to grab my rifle because of an attack or home invasion, I’m running box drills on just about every assailant.

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        Arc is 100% spot on.
        The “1000 mags loaded” Thunder Ranch video TTAG had last week explained it well.
        I did a quick mag count and concluded my SHTF handgun (Beretta/Wilson Combat 92G Briadier Tactical) has 560 rds of mag support. My SHTF rifle (Patriot Ord Factory P308 SPR Gen4 Edge NP3+) has 660 rds of mag support.
        My family and I may not come out on top of every possible SHTF scenario, but it SURE won’t be from a lack of effort or preparedness.
        Wonder where all the TTAG trolls are now who claimed a NATO Spec’ed Steyr AUG was a HORRIBLE Christmas gift for my son (“How do You Gift Guns” story). I would bet many of them wish they had access to an AUG right about now. With the 60rd drums, 30rd sticks, and cases of ammo to back it up.
        My firearms and ammo were all amassed before the current gun and ammo buying craze. Those who waited until now to purchase (and are unable to due to shortage) like to claim those who PERPARED are the cause of the current unavailability. They can piss up ropes.
        The manufacturers don’t have unlimited production capabilities to handle obsurd levels of demand. Just like masks, resperators……
        The “you bought a lot years ago and THAT’S why I can’t get any now” is the most retarded statement I’ve heard in years. Ranks right up there with the “if you don’t agree with my view, you need a break from your keyboard” statement.
        I guess that’s the far left’s ONLY move, someone disagrees with your view, you can’t argue your side because it’s ALL feelings and no facts, attempt to silence the disagreer, like the good little fascist you are.

    13. avatar Paul says:

      You, Sir, are being a little silly. As with many other items, you can’t have “too much”. You are far more likely to find yourself with too little, than too much. Better to have 2000 rounds, and only use 15, than to have 100 rounds, and need 101. Imagine – you’ve taken out all the bad guys, but one. You’re eyeball to eyeball, and pull your trigger. Click. He smiles, and takes aim, right between your eyes . . .

      That scenario actually plays out in real life, even when there is no “crisis”.

    14. avatar Doug says:

      Yeah, we civilians should be arbitrarily limited in how much of a thing we can buy because YOU (or anyone else) don’t think we NEED it. How about buying for practice? How about taking kids or family or friends to the range? How about going to a class that requires 1500-3000rnds? I like to have that on hand, instead of having to order it last minute. How about a worst case scenario – like what happened in Yugoslavia, Rwanda, and a dozen other times and places throughout history? How about to help arm friends and neighbors to defend themselves and their homes? How about as a hedge against inflation? How about because you like shiny objects, you have money to burn, or you just enjoy having something set back so you can still enjoy shooting during a panic like we’ve seen a few times this past decade? Things like food, ammo, and guns aren’t going to go down in price. I remember when a good AK went for around $400 and a No4Mk1 was $100. I kick myself for not buying a few of each when I could bc I didn’t “need” then. How cool would it be to teach your kids about history with props that they can engage with and enjoy? Do you need the car you drive, your watch, smart phone, television, computer, or clothes you wear? Probably not, but you buy them because you like them and can afford them. Nobody needs to hunt, fish, own a boat or a fancy car, a private jet, to play video games, etc, but everyone is fine with ppl having / doing those things. When it comes to guns, for some reason, suddenly it’s about need. Yes, it sucks that ppl are panic buying, but I’d rather live in a society where they are allowed to go as economically berserk as their finances allow, than one where we are all limited by arbitrary need.

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        Damn straight Doug. All spot on.
        I’ve made a few firearm purchases in the last 3 years that were double, and sometimes triple the cost of the EXACT same model/condition gun a decade ago.
        Sometimes it hard to make those purchases, because it’s ADMITTING you let good firearm deals pass you by.
        I don’t let deals pass now. Saw a “slightly used/almost NIB” ’87 production W. German SIG Sauer P220 45 acp in electroless nickel (might be an FBI comissioned P220) at the local Cabalas last Sat (over 2 hours gun counter service wait), went back on Thursday (under 1 HR wait), and purchased (my LTC avoided the 4473 “holdup”).
        All the other purchases I saw were “on-hold” by the 4473 verification log-jam.
        So many long faces and empty hands walking out after their purchases.
        Hopefully, people will learn from this, buy when demand is low, and get their LTCs/CHLs, so the system log-jams have NO effect on their firearm buying.
        I’m sure the Cabalas staff had to explain to several customers exactly how a few buyers walked past the line waiting outside with firearm boxes.

    15. avatar FUDD master says:

      That’s right. All you stupid ammosexuals are the real problem. No one needs more then 100 rounds and no one needs a gun that holds more then 10 rounds. You’re not a navy seal so if you get attacked by a group of thugs you are going to lose. So why bother. Just give up and let them have their way with you.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        That’s my plan if I’m ever attacked by the Swedish Bikini Team.

    16. avatar fteter says:

      @James: some folks keep 2000 rounds per gun because they want to practice, hunt or otherwise engage in their hobby on a regular basis… even during a shortage.

    17. avatar Mister Fleas says:

      How about a civil disturbance like the Rodney King riots, race riots from the 1960s, or the Tulsa race massacre in 1921?

      The Roof Koreans during the Rodney King riot ran low on ammunition.

  3. avatar John Hull says:

    If you haven’t already got what you need in terms of guns, ammo, reloading supplies, etc., now is NOT the time to buy them. First, you aren’t likely to find what you want if you even know what that is. Second, if you’re new to guns then you won’t have the necessary knowledge or experience to make the right choice for your situation, and likely won’t be able to purchase enough ammunition to be able to do some initial familiarization firing (assuming you even have a place to go to do it that is safe).

    If you haven’t already got what you need, the chances of getting it now under these circumstances is highly unlikely. If you do have the knowledge and experience, but haven’t done the necessary steps to be properly prepared, you’re too late, and you should’ve known better.

    1. avatar MrMax says:

      John, I don’t know where you live and maybe the guns & ammo situation is like that by you. But I’ve had no problem ordering additional ammo and even getting it at sale prices if you buy in case lots. Around here in Huntsville, AL there are still small FFLs and shops still open you can either buy from in-store or have something sent there from one of the online gun dealers. Where I do agree with you is: Folks should have been prepared in the first place. If people who run the supply chain get sick and there are subsequent shortages, I expect most Americans will help their neighbor – as they are doing now. And God bless and protect our medical workers who are going in harm’s way EVERY DAY. But..there are bad folks out there, and may be a few not-as-good folks, that would not be above breaking and entering to take what they want from someone by force. Again – best to be prepared.

      1. avatar John Hull says:

        Well, I was mostly thinking about the dimwits who live in the liberal enclaves on the right and left coasts. A lot depends on what the general attitude is in your state to guns in general. New Jersey has pulled the plug on the 2A, and California has a 10 day waiting period and requires background checks on ammo, so you can’t get either one cuz they won’t let you go out of your house. Even in more conservative flyover country, a lot of places are anti-gun, so it can be problematic. Trying to ramp up now is kind of counter intuitive.

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        whatever happens, it’s likely to begin in and around urban areas…watch for it to start there…

    2. avatar John Gualt says:

      I overheard a funny thing last night. A guy was talking on the phone to someone and said “I was watching some videos today about 22 and 9mm pistols. They only cost about $300 and I think you can just pick one up at a Walmart or on Amazon” I gave a chuckle and kept on my way.

      1. avatar arc says:

        .22 pellet pistols, sure, and its still better than nothing. Ball and cap pistols can be ordered online as well. Firearms, no, not unless its deepweb.

  4. avatar strych9 says:

    I would add that since we’re not, generally, in a “bad place” be as nice to people as you can be. Try to exude confidence and friendliness even if you don’t feel them at the time.

    Panic is infectious but so is cheer and calm.

    1. avatar B says:

      Exactly. Keep it chill and cordial.

    2. avatar Joatmon says:

      Well put. Just be a decent person and things will be better.

    3. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

      Good advice

    4. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

      Mattis- ‘Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.’

    5. avatar SoCalJack says:

      Amen brother! On a side note for new gun owners without range access for the next few months, aside dry fire aids like MantisX, just do about 50 trigger pulls day. I did this when I kept shooting my first Glock low-left. This will decrease frustration shooting a new gun, IMO.

    6. avatar frank speak says:

      places with large dependent populations…and general indifference to the plight of others are more vulnerable…sometimes people care…and sometimes they think only of themselves….

    7. avatar Paul says:

      Careful with that exuding. They’ll put you in quarantine! ;^)

  5. avatar Dennis says:

    Amazing how many “experts” we have out there now, isnt it?🤔

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      And how many people think society has ended and will never recover. I think some are hoping for a lawless world they can shoot anyone they feel like. I doubt any of that will happen.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        This is the wet dream of those preppers that think the fact that they’ve got 2 years worth of toilet paper will draw in all the attractive women that have been busy paying attention to guys that work out and have a great job up until now.

      2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        GS650G,

        Here is a simple fact: something like 50% of our workforce is now or will be (within about one week) benched due to various “containment” measures and will not be receiving any pay. (Whether or not that is wise or prudent does not matter because that is what is actually happening.) And from the looks of it, this will be ongoing for several months, as in another four to six months.

        Please explain how that does not devastate our economy and send us into a deep depression. And please explain how that does not result in widespread desperation and widespread events where said desperate people attempt to take (by force) what they desperately need from other people who have what they need?

      3. avatar arc says:

        The world will continue and civilization will go on, however, I think WuFlu is actually the death blow to the US dollar. Once we print and spend 2-4 trillion, China Russia and India, smell the blood on the air and may make their move to back one or more currencies with gold and that will strip reserve status from us overnight. Oil will be traded in the Yuan or another currency and we will no longer be able to threaten the world into using our FIAT, ending with a complete default on our unpayable debts and hyperinflation.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      you would be wise to take the advice of those who have actually experienced something like that…and not those who have done so only in their fantasies….

  6. avatar NORDNEG says:

    I’m happy with my stash,
    & no how to use it.
    Thank You very much…

  7. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    Good advice. Especially that concerning neighbors. I knew mine before Michael and we all pulled together after. The only real trouble in our neighborhood was the running gunfight that erupted down the street from me. A former co-worker, Buck, killed him. How much of anything is enough? More.

  8. avatar jwm says:

    Try to help others while helping yourself. If your idea of surviving whichever event we’re undergoing this time around is to hide out in your well stocked fortress of solitude you’re likely too dead inside to get any benefit from life anyways.

    1. avatar arc says:

      I have a few subtle plans in place. I’m replanting some of my old market gardens, just in case the hysteria causes even greater food rationing and one or more local churches need to start handing out vegetables. Its likely that I could arrange a drop-off in the early AM without being seen, or followed home. I have no intention of passing anything out directly and a step further would be transferring the produce to someone else’ vehicle at an arranged location, far away from prying eyes.

      Help the poor, but don’t be stupid about it or throw common sense to the wind. It only takes one rando to pull a weapon and ruin everything.

      If it turns out the produce isn’t needed and this blows over, oh well, I guess people will have a smaller food bill and I’ll sell the rest.

  9. avatar John Wick says:

    Number 2 pencils. A full pack
    Library books.
    Horses.
    Attack dogs
    Guns… lots of guns..

    1. avatar Jardani Jovonovich says:

      And one “Very Good Dog”…

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        in a pinch you can always eat it!….

    2. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      I rented that movie because of you guys. (Never heard of it before.) Not my favorite, but enjoyed it.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        What’s the verdict on JW2 and JW3? Because they get better and better. The world’s waiting for JW4 to be released, to bring the story arc to its conclusion.

        “The High Table”

        1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          JW 3 was kinda weak sauce, nothing but a set-up for JW 4…

        2. avatar MrMax says:

          I thought JW3 was pretty awesome, though it seemed he did waaaaaaay too much reloading ( as opposed to to fantasy infinity magazine you usually see). I liked the Taran Tactical STI 2011 9mm Combat Master so much that I bought a his & her’s pair. Really a sweet pistol…but for $4K, it had better be.

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        “Trigger Effect”….might be a good choice tight now….especially for those who are thinking of bugging-out…..

  10. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    No one can “teach” you what to do in a firefight, everyone reacts differently under stress, I have been in a shitload of gun fights from big city type environments kicking down doors, to ambushes from open field to jungle/heavily wooded scenarios both as the ambusher and the ambushed… I know how I will react, but I can’t teach you to feel what I feel, think what I think or do what I do. I can’t tell you what gun to carry, how much ammo you need and I certainly don’t advise anyone on whether or not to take a human life… In the end it comes down to what YOU are comfortable with, what YOU deem adequate/necessary and ultimately what YOU can live with and what YOU are willing to die for… Killing someone is easy, living with it, not so much, that requires a mindset that cannot be taught but rather must be developed over time and requires an ability to rationalize that is not prevalent in a majority of the population (maybe that is why only <1% of the population participates in the military)… Do what is right for you, it will either work or it won't, but it's your decicision to make, noone else's

    1. avatar Frank says:

      “Killing someone is easy, living with it, not so much, that requires a mindset that cannot be taught but rather must be developed over time and requires an ability to rationalize that is not prevalent in a majority of the population (maybe that is why only <1% of the population participates in the military)… ”

      So how many people does one have to kill before they develop the right “mindset”? (rolls eyes)

      And what percentage of the military ever actually kill someone, even in wartime?

      “If ya’ ain’t ready to kill, ya’ don’t belong in the sertvice….”. Give me a break, armchair warrior …

      1. avatar George Washington says:

        How the fk do you know? You’ve already proven yourself to be the biggest puss here, so why don’t you stfu and get back to your gay porn with your daddy…fkn poser mfer…

        1. avatar James Campbell says:

          My money is on “Frank” actually being a Moms Demand Action hag.
          Anyone else think the same?

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          I’m in, Honestly though sounds more like a “mommys basement dwelling Call of Duty punkass, Rambo wanna-be”..

        3. avatar Toe Cutter says:

          @ MaddMaxx

          I’ve been popping in every now and then for the last couple of years just for amusement. These threads have about half a dozen alternating totally outlandish pathological fish tale tellers, but your among the biggest. You’ve lied about everything from your age to the dizzying array of jobs you’ve held and the regions you’ve held them in. Now your saying your Audie Murphy and James Bond put together. Audie Murphy never smoked and James Bond quit in the late seventies. You waited til the late 2000s when you were pushin 60. The only fighting you got left in you is to breathe if you do get sick. Its shocks be the lack of self reflection of most here. If you guys were gonna save the world you would have done it by now, if you don’t like the state of the country or the world you should have done something to keep it from getting that way long ago.

        4. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Toe Cutter?: Hmmmmm, not the band, probably not an Aussie IA cop…. Can’t be the leader of a psycho biker gang…..

          Funny how people can have so much to say about a life THEY could never possibly live or even come close to understanding… Later Franky…

      2. avatar Chet says:

        I’m at several hundred.

        But I kill 1000+ pounds at a time. I’ve watched their death through my bright green/grey multi-function screen. And I’ll be judged for each one of them. I tend to still believe in some of those antiquated Diety concepts.

      3. avatar Arc says:

        There are all kinds of mind sets from psychopathy, indifference, acceptance, etc. The closest I came to needing to kill someone was at the Helmund river when my squad leader wanted to go to the edge of our AO to try and provoke any Taliban on the other side into shooting at us. Well, they never did. I spent the better part of about an hour lying the dirt while watching some rando go about his day through my RCO, no idea who he was or if he was even Taliban. I was committed to shooting his ass if he picked up a weapon and if he did pick one up, its the job description we both signed up for, fair chase.

        I know I wouldn’t have any trouble sleeping over him, but I probably would have some thinking to do if someone else died from my inaction, lack of ability, or perhaps I killed an innocent / someone who wanted nothing to do with the fighting. At the end of the day though, Id likely chalk it up to every other bad action or choice I’ve ever made, its in the past, I can’t change it, the only way to go is forward. No sense in living in the past.

        Even though I was in a “combat zone” there was no combat except for our Afghan police station getting blown up after we left. So no combat action ribbon for me. We were supposed to run up a faux contact report but we never did. The whole place was quiet in the winter months, the Taliban was expecting a draw down, so most of them were just waiting us out. I think a grand total of like three IEDs were found and I’m pretty sure they were old junk.

        Handling the hurdles of life in war/conflict is a self-developed mindset and no one can just give it to you. You can either continue to move forward in life, or stagnate while life passes you by.

        -Thoughts of an 03

  11. avatar former water walker says:

    Pretty good overview JWT. I’m not going anywhere though. I’m old. We’re not wealthy but fairly well armed. And ammo stocked. I’m confident in my shooting ability too. In southern Cook County,ILL it may come to that-especially if Cook County Jail has a mass release. Ditto the state prisons. MY local 5-O are IDIOT’S. Already delivered food to my church homeless ministry. Give and it shall be given unto you…

  12. avatar enuf says:

    I have all I need for the ALIEN VAMPIRE ZOMBIE VIRUS APOCALYPSE. Can even handle the Alien Vampire Zombies sneaking in some werewolves.

    What I cannot handle is all these fuckwit, shit for brains panicking morons wiping out the egg supply. I mean what the hell is it with these people? What is it they plan to do with all them eggs anyway? How’d they even get them all home without cracking them? Imagine someone fills a shopping cart with eggs, rolls out to the family sedan and piles them in the back seat. Maybe they bought boxes too? Then they get home, and now what? Who the hell has a refrigerator at home that big?

    Somebody buys a hundred dozen eggs, I figure there are two possibilities. Either that person is supplying a restaurant or that person is a fuckwit shit for brains panicking moron.

    1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      It’s like that meme that’s going around of the people in the biohazzard suits ala outbreak where the caption is “They all died of the Corona Virus but their assholes are amazingly clean.”

      What are they going to do with all the TP? Take out their neighbors trees when the boredom really sets in?

      1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

        The ONLY reason I bought TP is because it was scarce. If soap is scarce, I will go buy soap. I’m not hoarding, but I want more than 1 week’s worth. I’ve always had a month supply of soap, TP, paper towels and Band-aids ….ever since the kids were little. (I should have bought stock in Kimberly-Clark.)

        1. avatar jwm says:

          And those are all items you use in your daily life. It’s not hoarding product X and storing it in a bunker only intending to use in mad max land.

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        we can live without it…messy…but possible….

    2. avatar jwm says:

      They could have caught the Townsend video on pickling and preserving eggs long term. I wouldn’t do it. It don’t look yummy to me and I like eggs.

      My local store is limiting eggs to two cartons per purchase. That’s enough for me.

      1. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

        We freeze dry our surplus eggs. Turns out pretty good but will always be scrambled. Haven’t found a way to freeze dry a fried egg.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          Scrambled is my favorite. Next is baked. And then there is a scooped out potato with an egg cooked inside. Then there’s………..

      2. avatar The Rookie says:

        Towsends is awesome. Love that channel.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          Baked onion will be dinner tonight.

      3. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        18th century cooking! I love the Townsend channel.

    3. avatar George Washington says:

      Cry me a river you dumb mfer….. guess you shoulda “bought all them eggs” when you had a chance dip$hit for brains mfer…

  13. avatar Larry says:

    The elderly seem to be particularly at risk , grouping them together, like the stores with hours just for them , has resulted with many being packed with seniors, choose wisely.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      which is why you shouldn’t go into the stores…either have them bring it out to you or have it delivered…much safer….

  14. avatar Warchild says:

    Entertainment only advise people, hey thanks for the article !

  15. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    One thing worth considering is if you have a bunch of mags that don’t have ammo in em now may be the time to stuff them full. I’ve been loading up 5.56 and populating mags that haven’t seen much use.

    1. avatar former water walker says:

      All my mags are loaded Andrew…should I switch to all Greentip for my AR?!?😏

  16. avatar SurfGW says:

    Did people that could not buy guns get cap and ball revolvers?
    HR Funk has a YouTube video shooting a modern Ohio Peace Officer Qualification Course and proves it can be done.

    1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

      My bro-in-law asked me to send him guns. I sent him the link to Cabelas website cap and ball pistol section.

      1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        Missouri Lefty can spit lead and smoke in his SASS worlds record Frontier run with C&B’s ,watch at 3:20.

      2. avatar arc says:

        Extended family asking the same thing, need guns.

        IF guns are out of stock, there is always a lathe, drill press, and end mill, get to work!

    2. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Thanks for the tip. I watch that video. I liked his “new york reload”. Very informative on old guns for modern qualification. And I like his smile.
      (smile)

    3. avatar arc says:

      Yes, pre 1899 ball and cap pistols that are not modified to fire center fire cartridges are not legally defined as “firearms”, however, if you are a felon, you may still be charged with a “felon in possession of deadly weapon” or some other nonsense. I haven’t brushed up on it in a long long time.

      If you need to reload it, just have two, or three, and skip the reload.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        last I checked conversion kits…[primarily, the cylinder]..were available…

        1. avatar arc says:

          Of course they are available, that’s kind of how you convert it to center fire ammo. Something you shouldn’t do if you are a felon.

  17. avatar Anon says:

    James, you are right! I’ll bet you also said there will NEVER be a PANDEMIC because we are NOT third world.
    Get a life and stop handing out POOR advice.

  18. avatar Cadeyrn says:

    Right now the big unanswered question is whether this is a “slow apocalypse.” Maybe nothing dramatic happens tonight or tomorrow or this week. When you hear that “experts” are saying this will likely happen in waves over 18 months, you first have to question whether they are actually experts. If you conclude they are, then you wonder: will there be periods of recovery between waves like a fighter between bouts or will it be an extended crisis with intermittent periods where it is very intense and respites will only be “less bad” than the week before. No matter what happens in a fight, remember neither fighter usually looks pretty by the end of 12 rounds.

    Few people have the stores to weather an 18-month crisis. Income reduction, whether from lost jobs or sales or straight unemployment mean you might not be able to afford things even when the stores get them back in stock. Many will be lucky indeed to pay their mortgages or rents. Family stress from children underfoot screaming and crying because they’re bored or getting into trouble, finances, illness, injury, all of the normal issues which cause short-term stress become long-term serious problems. Heck, pet food may yet become a problem.

    Crime is one of those problems. If this goes in waves for 18 months and there isn’t a substantial increase in law enforcement, there are going to be major problems. Houses that look like they have supplies will look more and more tempting to criminals and hungry people alike. If you are fortunate enough to have supplies, there is a high probability that you will, at some point, need to defend them. Perhaps several times depending on the length and severity of the situation. So, yes, a good amount of ammo may be an important part of your plan. Other parts which may be even more successful might include concealment, camouflage, misdirection or deflection. Those don’t usually have criminal penalties if you’re wrong.

    1. avatar jwtaylor says:

      We have very strong data on how long this will last, and it’s nowhere near 18 months, or even half that. Peak infection will probably be 45 to 60 days from now.
      All of the Asian countries, such as Singapore, South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan, have already bent the curve. In Washington state, which was the inception and epicenter of the epidemic in the United States, the number of new cases appear to be declining.
      Most of the outbreaks are clustered in urban
      areas and most pronounced in a few parts of the country.
      More than half the cases and over 60 percent of fatalities so far have been in three states: New York, Washington, and California. And even then, they are very localized.
      56 percent of the Washington state cases are in King County, and when the two neighboring counties are factored in, they account for almost all the cases. 85 percent of the deaths were in King County, of which more than half were in one nursing home.
      As of Tuesday, 56 percent of the NY cases were in NYC, nearly all of them in metro NYC with the exception of a known anomalous outbreak in Westchester County.
      Roughly half the cases in San Francisco are among the homeless.
      If you are preparing for a year more of isolation, you’re wasting resources.

      1. avatar Ron says:

        While I certainly hope you are correct in your assessment, what’s wrong with someone wanting to be over prepared? The more people are prepared for catastrophic events the better off everyone is.

        1. avatar jwtaylor says:

          People can waste whatever they want. But that’s not the same as being prepared.

        2. avatar George Washington says:

          Yes…. this is a small example of what will happen when it REALLY gets bad….
          There will be two camps…..
          Camp one will have prepared and will have supplies….
          Camp two is everyone else….. and if you think what the idiots are saying now about how being prepared is a bad thing because of their jealousy, wait till they REALLY start starving in the streets how jealous they will become!!!!
          Be prepared for EVERYTHING AND SEPARATE PERMANENTLY FROM THE PEOPLE WHO DIDN’T PREPARE!

        3. avatar Stop says:

          Not sure why over-preparation is waste. Look at real disasters in history. Or even the early years of the depression. The wealthy on a local level often weathered the changes very well. Why? They had used their contacts in the early days to secure many things that others couldn’t find later. The wealthy WILL protect themselves, in this crisis just as in others, and they will do it by over-preparation. Smugness will be a great killer should our economy tank like many experts (whose knowledge counts MUCH more than that of Billy Bob, your local EMT – I say this with a family full of them) are warning. Even the head of the Federal Reserve is cautioning about the real aftereffects of all this on the market. The wealthy are preparing as we speak. Knowledge of how tent-dwellers respond to an invading force equates very little to knowledge of what to do in a long-term economic fallout in a developed nation. It’s funny because one of the most important aspects during war-time Europe, the ability to nurture a GARDEN well, is not mentioned in this expertise at all. Gardeners were more valuable in isolated Britain than people who understood triage. Learn to be a great gardener. People in South Carolina or Kansas are not going to turn into roving bands of marauders. How do we know? To know what people WILL do, look at what they have done. We had a period of extreme economic fallout and the American people didn’t wholesale turn into Rwandan warlords. It’s a dumb outlook. Yes, crime will go up in cities. It does in every economic downturn. But most of American will remain peaceful, but hungry. We won’t be able to eat bullets, for sure, but also, we won’t be able to eat someone’s vaunted commando knowledge. You know who is saving us right now? HR planners, managers, people who are trying and scrambling like the wind to keep logistics supply chains open with limited personnel. People working all day on means to keep factories operating. Stop with the smug. It’s embarrassing.

        4. avatar jwtaylor says:

          There’s no such thing as “over preparation.” There is only prepared and not prepared. If you are wasteful, you are unprepared, as you should have spent those resources on something else of value.
          All resources are finite.

      2. avatar Cadeyrn says:

        Current data shows known cases doubling every 2 days. There are, as of earlier today, 26,908 known cases in the US. If we use the lower end of your scale, 45 more days, that means 22.5 doubles so basically the entire nation would be exposed by then. Taking 320 million, even with 80% infection rate that’s 256m and assume only 6% need hospitalization which is on the low side. That’s 15,360,000 hospital beds needed. The US has (generously) a million available beds.

        Say we move all non-contageous “normal” patients to unused schools, hotels, cruise ships and closed Sears stores to free up every single hospital bed for C-19 patients. Nevermind that we can’t clone medical staff overnight to have them magically appear in multiple locations. Maybe we use soccer fields, football stadiums and every other bit of open space, industry blasts out supplies, distilleries churn out sanitizer and we keep the death rate to 2%. That’s 307,200 deaths anyway.

        But if you can’t get the beds and you can’t get the gear, you can’t keep the death rate down. We’re seeing that in Italy right now. Their mortality rate is closer to 10%. We could be looking at 25 million deaths in the US at 10% mortality using the numbers above. This is why once China realized what was going on they built a bunch of new hospitals and shut down everything.

        Say we shut down everything and there’s only 2 or 3 doublings instead. We have the hospital beds, we could probably scrape up the gear to handle under 250,000 infections. People stay calm despite 5000 deaths (at 2%), we get it resolved in 45 days and are well into the process of rebuilding in 60 days. That’s a win, right?

        Now tell people there are going to be 2 or more additional waves.

        You’ve seen a lot of the world, both good and bad. At what point will logic, rules, common sense and general goodwill go clean out the window?

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          At what point will logic, rules, common sense and general goodwill go clean out the window?

          The day before the day after tomorrow…..

        2. avatar jwtaylor says:

          Known infection rates are closer to 20%, with 80% of those folks having no symptoms. We got lucky with the Diamond Princess, as it was a pretty great controlled-in-situ study.

      3. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “All of the Asian countries, such as Singapore, South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan, have already bent the curve.”

        No doubt, the curve has been ‘flattened’, that comes as the citizens self-isolate.

        What I’m concerned about is when the schools re-open and the people troop back into work in close contact with others again, and infection rates shoot higher again. That smells like a recipe for a vicious cycle, and the stress from that will be more than some people can take.

        Can society take people keeping a ‘social distance’ of at least 6 feet away from each other indefinitely? Especially in larger urban areas? That’s the real question, as I can see it…

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      the idea is just to “flatten the curve”….and allow hospitals to deal with the surge…spread out over longer periods…even eighteen months… will allow them to cope…no, we cannot stay locked-down for an extended period…they have to find a way for people to return to work…

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “they have to find a way for people to return to work…”

        That’s Heller’s ‘Catch 22’, right there. Resume closer contact, more of the same. Rinse, lather, repeat.

        We had better pray a WuFlu vaccine both works and can be mass-produced in record time or things have a serious chance of getting very unpleasant…

        1. avatar Toni Smith says:

          that is what the elites want… everyone to be sooo damn uncomfortable and panicked that they will give up everything to them for the illusory promise of safety and protection…. f$%k that.

  19. avatar DJ says:

    MADDMAXX my nephew, Infantry, 101st Airborne, Afghanistan said Obama had their bayonets takes away as soon as they arrived in country. Now it’s the E-tool.

    Who the hell takes bayonets away from fighting men? Oh the same Jackass President who tried to take away cigarettes from the troops in a war zone because they are bad for your health.

    Just think c rations came with a pack.

    1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      Yeah the 40’s era C-Rats we got in late 60s early 70s had a lot of my brand (Marlboro), I eventually quit 12 years ago.. Was not aware of the bayonette issue, I carried an M-14 in the RVN never was issued a bayonette but had a Starlight scope and a Ka-bar, everybody had an E-tool with a “sharpened head and pick…..

    2. avatar jwtaylor says:

      I was there from 2008 to 2010. Couple different units. Never heard of any bayonets taken away, but many units never got them issued in the first place. But everybody had a knife.

      1. avatar former water walker says:

        What about the anti-malaria drugs JWT? I have a fakebook friend in India who said they all know it stops this plague. My son at the DoD obliquely mentioned things would get better after the initial rush. Heck you may even know him as he’s been all over the mideast…

        1. avatar jwtaylor says:

          Those drugs are being tested now. There is some promise.

        2. avatar edward kenway's ghost says:

          I recall being issued mefloquine (Lariam) when sent down to Colombia. After one or two doses of resulting physical weirdness a few of us decided to risk leaving the remainder in the bottle. I’m curious if the stuff is as effective as chloroquine is rumored to be against Covid-19.
          During one of my Iraq deployment briefings regarding anthrax one of the medics was more than candid about the immunizations not being effective against all forms of the disease. You should’ve heard the murmuring in the Peanut Gallery at this. A couple of the other medics actually tried to shush him up!
          His honesty got him in some hot water but I respect that.

    3. avatar arc says:

      Dumbass grunts will sword fight with them, cut their hands, tendons, it will be on their cot / rack when they jump on it and slice their hand open. The knife in the bed incident happened at MWTC, I forget if it was fact or just cover for the kid doing something stupid with it. They will let them get dull, rusty, or lose them. Hajis may steal them. Had one dense moron wave a damn moto knife around at me when I was rounding up bodies for a working party and I got a nice little scar from it. In hindsight, I should have picked up the nearest kevlar and given him a nap but never did.

      When I deployed to Afghanistan, all of our bayonets were locked up in a seabag and they never came out. There is a lot of gear that is never issued out and lives in the armory like safe-queens. It might come out for ITX/CAX/What ever its called now, but likely not.

      If someone wanted a big ass moto knife (dead weight) he could buy it himself. One clown wanted to carry two machetes on UDP to Okinawa and it was just more pounds for more pain. One is understandable, but two? Nah.

      – An 0311

  20. avatar RedOwl says:

    I whole heartedly agree with your advice to build your defense by helping your neighbors. I had to go into a sketchy part of New Orleans right after Hurricane Katrina. My team brought in two 40’ containers full of food and a field kitchen. We fed the people around our camp two meals a day, every day. They quickly turned into our security force. We had zero problems in the three weeks that we were there.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      suddenly camping gear starts to look very appealing….

  21. avatar arc says:

    Any gun, appropriate ammo for it, and bunker down.

  22. avatar Responsible father says:

    @jwt

    I have posted on this forum under different aliases (truth man, DeShaw, etc.) mostly criticizing JWT. Basically, 90% of the alt-right posts on this board were me.

    While his takes on Israel, the NRA, real estate speculation, going to Ranger School after IOBC without having attended Airborne School are all wrong; he has been on the money when it comes to Coronavirus.

    As a gesture of goodwill toward JWT, TTAG, POTG and humanity itself, I will cease all trolling of this board.

    Stay safe out there. Help homeless people (I was homeless the last few months). We’ll get through this.

  23. avatar Defens says:

    Our hilltop neighborhood in Washington recently had its access road severely damaged by a mudslide, after torrential rains. As a result, 150 residents have been pulling together and helping each other out in a variety of ways for a couple of months. There’s a high degree of self sufficiency here, and a wide set of skills and capabilities.

    If the zombie hordes descend from the big city, as a community we’d pool our resources and defend our community, not each person for themselves. I’m more than happy to share ammo and arms, if needed, ‘ cause my neighbors have already demonstrated their willingness to share expertise, time, labor, and supplies.

    Thousands of rounds of ammo won’t be needed, just an armed checkpoint at the bottom of the hill would keep anyone out that doesn’t need to be here. If worst came to worst, an armed convoy could go for more supplies, to avoid ambushes, etc. But at that point we’re in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. Which seems pretty unlikely.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      other than an armed checkpoint at the TOP of the hill…and little identifying bumper stickers that appeared out of nowhere…that sounds awfully familiar…didn’t even know the names of most of these people even though we were neighbors…but there they were standing right beside you….very encouraging….

    2. avatar Cadeyrn says:

      When you say “hordes” are you thinking “groups of maybe as many as 10 refugee-like families”?

      Because last I heard there were over 7 million people in Washington State. That’s a lot of places with far more than 10 people. A group of a thousand or more is highly possible.

      There’s a reason why Autie Custer lost at the Little Bighorn. Some claim the reasons may have been overconfidence and outrunning his big guns, but the actual reason was sheer numbers, which, as it has been said, have a virtue all their own.

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