Wayne LaPierre NRA
Dan Z for TTAG
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Like many Americans and gun owners, I have watched Wayne LaPierre’s destructive antics from afar as he struggles to maintain his iron grip on the National Rifle Association. On Saturday morning, ol’ Wayne’s slash and burn tactics hit home for me.

With a phone call, I learned that the NRA had severed its relationship with the legal dream team representing Guns Save Life and over two million Prairie State gun owners in three critical lawsuits here in the Land of Lincoln. And now we get to pick up the pieces.

I serve as the executive director of Guns Save Life. Gun owners in general in Illinois, and GSL in particular, have enjoyed good support from the National Rifle Association – Institute for Legislative Action in the past.

Without even a hint of exaggeration, I credit the NRA-ILA’s work (via Todd Vandermyde in years past) with saving semi-auto firearms and standard capacity magazines in the Land of Lincoln. And they have done plenty more to minimize the bleeding here.

Not only have we enjoyed the support of NRA-ILA on the legislative side of things, we have enjoyed their support in judicial advocacy as well.

In fact, without the NRA-ILA support, the trio of Guns Save Life lawsuits, including the one we won that blocked the Deerfield gun and magazine ban, likely would not have happened.

But when it comes to these lawsuits, we no longer have the NRA-ILA’s support. On Saturday morning, I got a call from our attorneys. They informed me that Wayne LaPierre had severed the relationship between the NRA and the Cooper & Kirk law firm. It seems NRA EVP and CEO Wayne LaPierre saw Charles Cooper as part of the so-called insurrection attempt against his not-so-benevolent leadership. In Wayne’s world, that meant Cooper had to go.

From The New York Times:

Now Mr. LaPierre is continuing to purge opponents. On Thursday, the N.R.A. dismissed its longtime outside counsel, Charles J. Cooper, the chairman of the Washington law firm Cooper & Kirk, people with knowledge of the decision said. A second outside counsel and a top in-house counsel resigned. The departures come after an internal inquiry showed that the lawyers were involved in an effort to undermine Mr. LaPierre.

Where does that leave our lawsuits, including our win against Deerfield? It leaves them in limbo.

Frankly, LaPierre’s self-centered move terminating the NRA’s relationship with our legal team risks snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. It also does the same in pending suits in other states as well.

For our part, at least for the immediate term, Cooper & Kirk has told me not to worry about the bill. In the long term? We’ve already started scrambling to secure funding.



UPDATE (September 12, 2019):

Senior staff at the NRA has contacted me, and they assure me they (NRA-ILA) are not abandoning Illinois, nor the pending legal actions in the Land of Lincoln.

Later, in the September 5, 2019 ISRA Thursday Executive Director’s Bulletin, ISRA’s E.D. Rich Pearson wrote, “Although the NRA has chosen to discontinue gun rights litigation in Illinois…”

Since then, I’ve learned that arrangements have been secured and the Cooper and Kirk firm will continue to represent GSL and Illinois gun owners in our cases.

The even better news, I’ve learned, is that the NRA-ILA’s litigation people will remain engaged in judicial actions in Illinois, both current and future actions.

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    • Oh, hell, no. This nightmare is *far* from over.

      In his delusion, WLP is just clearing out the untrustworthy deadwood. His world has a lot further to shrink before he realizes the gig is up…

      • Oh I don’t know yet. The NRA is still on our side. We should support it and it will come around and see the light. Just because the NRA doesn’t play well with others should keep you from trusting the NRA with your rights.

        • We need the NRA to reach out and put the fear of God into all the weasels we hoi polloi have no access to.

          If they’re no longer supporting 2A lawsuits, and politicians aren’t afraid of them anymore, yet they’re still spending and asking for our money, are they *really* on our side?

        • This is a joke, right? You realize that the most recent national gun control was entirely the idea of the NRA…right? They’re not our friends and never have been. They push for gun control, then beg gun owners for money to fight the very laws they helped put in place.

        • There other good 2A groups. I have shifted to GOA and NAGR. ISRA as well, but all need to be accountable with member funds. LaPierre is taking NRA to the grave. Sad!

        • GOA, JPFO, SAF, SAS, FPC and others. Also remember your state organizations, and local too if you have them. FOAC and ACSL here in PA.

        • Suffering from cognitive dissonance? NRA is not our friend…its Wayne’s friend. Our friends are long gone…into other orgs, like the SAF, GOA, and others. Cut the chord…

        • “There other good 2A groups”

          There -Are-. And their Enthusiasm is laudable. But if they don’t have President Trump’s personal phone number (for exchanges that it’s publicly admitted that they have), and can’t call up any political figure within the Dems and RINOs to, with authority and gravitas, say ‘watch it, f**ker’, then what is their enthusiasm actually worth?

          I don’t wear suits, I don’t own suits, If I have to put on a ‘tie’ then I’m living my life wrong, but I do know that Nice suits (powerful people suits) run from $8,000 to $30,000. That’s a shocking figure for people that have $150 suits from the mall and drive a 10 year old truck, but that stuff doesn’t fly in the halls of power on the national stage. The 2A community is getting handled, without lube, by a post-failed-coup smear campaign where Lefty power brokers in $30,000 suits are pointing their finger at WLP for expensing $20,000 suits and going “Ugh, what a bastard!”

          It’s Division. It’s Vomit. There are trolls, also, .. lots .. new .. often with really thin campy names. Saying: ‘The good guys are crooked!’ ‘Get on the bandwagon!, Hey, I agree with that last guy!’ , ‘Me too!’

          At the end if the day, any of us Regular Joes (btw, people .. even those with good intentions .. should look up “Dunning Kruger”) – at the end if the day, any of us Regular Joes trying to help post-coup the NRA is looking at Lefty billionaire anti-gunner Michael Bloomberg, and Lefty hyper-billionaire Jeff Bezo’s Washington Post, and the whole MSM and saying “Yep, sign me up with those guys, I agree with what They want” .. and with what they are pouring Enormous energy into.

          Why all the energy? Because in the long-view, as Chess, the anti-gunners have had their asses handed to them by the NRA for about 40 years .. and they’re tired of it. It’s not about “suits”. That’s a norm in that league. It’s about bringing a Collapse Of Confidence to destroy an enemy they can’t beat otherwise.

          Enthusiasm won’t win many of our fights. That takes Power. The anti-gunners know this. The 2A community still needs to figure it out.

        • “Enthusiasm won’t win many of our fights. That takes Power. The anti-gunners know this. The 2A community still needs to figure it out.”

          Specifically, just how much corruption, malfeasance and chicanery are you willing to accept for winning the battle by only losing a little bit each year?

          The current NRA model is not winning, but (maybe) mitigating losses. “Better than nothing” eventually arrives at nothing. If NRA had the power you imagine, we would not even be having this battle with anti-gunners (there would be almost none). If NRA is the sole entity to effectively protect our Second Amendment, then they are the single point of failure; both the strongest and weakest link. If NRA is all we have as a defense, then we are in a siege, and it is only a matter of time until we lose it all.

        • Cpt Obvious
          “but I do know that Nice suits (powerful people suits) run from $8,000 to $30,000. ”
          Most of the members of the President’s cabinet are wearing suits under 3k. A fine, custom tailored suit need never cost more than 5k.

        • Seems like it is WLP who doesn’t play well with others. Maybe he ought to examine his priorities first.

    • Further PROOF , Wayne and N.R.A. gravy train slush fund comes first , gun rights are a far ,far distant second.

      We were told they were not on our side long ago …… it took some longer than others to see it , but now we ALL know.

  1. Not only is the narcissistic, greedy ass hole determined to burn down the NRA if he can’t have it for his own. He’s retaliating, against the very people who paid for his life of luxury, like a street thug because he was DISRESPECTED. What a looser

    • LaPierre is making himself look like a mafia don or tinpot dictator. If it looks like a chicken and walks like a chicken…..

      Who does this guy think he is?

      If people wake up we can show him he’s nothing at all.

  2. Aren’t we at (or past) the time when we need to just descend on Fairfax ourselves (members) and drag him out by his ear like grandma used to do?
    I’m sure among the members, those who want him out outnumber those that want him to stay.

    • Well, I was thinking earlier he may not fully realize how much the POTG have turned against him.

      What if – Every day the NRA office complex is open WLP has to drive through a crowd of angry POTG making it clear to him the gig is up?

      As in, every day, as long as it takes. Aren’t there plenty of retired POTG in that area?

      • I was called by an NRA fundraiser last week offering life memberships, gifts and such. When I was able to finally interrupt his spiel, I explained that I was already well aware of the current threats to gun rights and that I was currently contributing to FPC and SAF and would not be contributing to the NRA at this time because of the actions of WLP destroying the NRA. He got all huffy and said he didn’t know anything about it. They have to be getting a lot of this now because I can’t see why he’d be all bent out of shape if that was the first he’d heard of it. They probably have been given marching orders not to discuss it.

        • “They have to be getting a lot of this now because I can’t see why he’d be all bent out of shape if that was the first he’d heard of it. They probably have been given marching orders not to discuss it.”

          Part 1: “they” are likely not NRA employees/members. The majority of large organizations contract for fundraising, sometimes netting only 10% of the funds (the rest goes to the fundraiser).

          Part 2: The fundraising organization is interested in making money for themselves, and contending with potential donors over internal/external politics is not considered a money-maker.

  3. I strongly advise that anyone reading this copy-and-paste it in its entirety into another platform before proceeding, as it will undoubtedly be deleted by TTAG quickly.

    I’ve been a visitor and participant of TTAG for some time now, though for the purpose of this single comment I’ll use a temporary name to avoid my usual name being banned due to the inevitable disagreement from TTAG staff. I recall the changeover of Farago to Zimmerman, and am quite familiar with many of the long-timers (jwm, RockOnHellChild, strych9, Anonymous, pwrserge, Dyspeptic Gunsmith, and more).

    Several weeks ago, another user posted an expose regarding strange behaviors surrounding two users named ‘Vlad Tepes’ and ‘Pg2’, with most of the controversy focusing on the latter. Like many of you, I’ve seen trolls come and go over time, regarding most of them as nothing more than keyboard lackys bored with their lives and childishly seeking attention by dropping stupid comments meant to rile up the group. According to that user, he temporarily impersonated Pg2 and went undercover to root out questionable activities. On July 17, he announced his findings in the comments section of this article linked below, positing that someone with admin-level access to the website was doing some master trolling behind the scenes. It was deleted later that same day, but not before others noticed as well and re-posted the original in other pages:


    Due to the back-and-forth accusatory comments over the next few days, Dan Zimmerman posted this article touting the TTAG policy, outlining several topics that are forbidden, even though the policy is seldom ever enforced:


    I personally know the individual who performed the undercover tests, and when he informed me of his post, I initially didn’t give it much thought. However, after choosing to go back through recent articles and their comments, I soon noticed that Pg2 had been very active and inflammatory before suspiciously disappearing during my friend’s investigation, and taking a dubiously long time to resurface. As if my friend had actually uncovered something of importance.

    So I performed my own investigation and matched the previous methods of my friend by using dynamic IP addresses and posting under temporary names, even venturing into a couple of mild impersonations (for science!). Not once was any IP address I used ever blocked or any comment deleted. However, upon trying Pg2’s name, my current address was quickly blocked each time, forcing me to change to the next one. This happened several times.

    I now firmly agree that there is someone with admin-level capabilities who has been posting inflammatory topics against Dan Zimmerman’s rules, and is able to get away with it, possibly because he/she may be on TTAG staff. How else can it be explained that this Pg2 person continues to post prohibited topics (similar to Vlad, by the way) and not only get a free pass, but block anyone who impersonates him while leaving others alone? Is this person in charge of the oversight of the comments, and therefore the fox in charge of the hen house?

    TTAG is a great site with an enjoyable comments forum. I don’t wish for this to change or for a new format to be adopted (such as Disqus). Leave it as is. However, whoever is behind the scenes is making selective and unfair deletions and making Zimmerman look bad. I also want to make the recommendation that TTAG open up the comment policy to allow all topics, similar to Zerohedge, so that only those that explicitly condone illegal behavior risk deletion. All others are mere opinions, and therefore protected free speech. Open it all up.

    In conclusion, user Knute(ken) has no affiliation with me and knows nothing about my intent to post this, but I noticed that he was the only one who chose to investigate the original July 17 post after reading it. He was shut down for his efforts and forced to promise never to bring up the topic again, while several users ridiculed him. My kudos to him. Looks like he was right.

    • So, why does this matter? Seriously, I’m open to being persuaded, but this just seems kinda petty. Perhaps I’m mistaken?

      • You are not mistaken. It is petty, and ridiculous. If you want to read and comment about everything under the sun, go to 4/8Chan or Reddit or wherever else. TTAG is about guns. Keep it that way.

        • Perhaps YOU are the one pulling Pg2’s strings? Seriously, I think you are far too intelligent to think that anyone at TTAG is above suspicion at this point. And the more you admins come on saying; “Everything is fine. Nothing to see here. Move along…”, the more guilty you look. That’s how it works with cover ups. The more dirt you sling around, the more sticks to you.
          You’re on the back side of the power curve now! The more lies you tell now, the worse you look. The more power you add, the deeper you sink…

    • Hmm. Well regardless, whoever it is, I’m going to continue my totally mature campaign of simply hurling childish insults and slurs at both pg2 and vlad. It probably won’t help anything, but it makes me feel better about myself.

        • Yep, I really enjoy the way he baits the troll!

          I usually ignore Vlad, and who would read those huge long posts anyway…..It’s almost as if someone gave him an early copy of the article so he could write up those posts and get them in before everyone lost interest and moved on!

        • THAT is yet another possibility I’ve considered. That Vlad/Pg2 is not intended to vilify us with the same broad brush, but just a ruse to generate conflict, and thus clicks. TTAG’s unhealthy obsession with clicks seems to bear this out, but it’s still all just speculation. But for so long as TTAG continues to try the white wash route, they continue to look as guilty as hell…

    • Though, I will also add, whoever “Vlad’s Dad” is… is goddamn hilarious. Best stuff I’ve read in a long time. And honestly probably the best way to counter such a troll.

    • Many thanks for mentioning that I was only a witness, and a party to non of it except for a follow up campaign of my own to attempt to keep it from all being swept under the rug. More than one have said it was me all along, but that is inaccurate. As I’ve said before, I have the old, static, IP address that can only be changed by my ISP manually, which they have never done since I got broadband a decade ago.
      If I get banned, I cannot come back. That alone keeps me from participating in such an experiment. Even for science… 🙂
      Thanks again for trying to clear that up. I wish you all the luck in the world.
      TTAG has been a great resource, and I would love to see it saved before the current crew take it down with them, ala LaPierre.
      PS: IMO both Vlad and Pg2 have their strings pulled by an employee of Wide Open Media, the new TTAG owners. Perhaps in the IT dept., without even DAN Zs knowledge. That would be the smart move. His denials would be more believable if his bosses treat him like a mushroom. You know, kept in the dark and fed a lot of BS? 🙂
      Anyone pulling something this shady would know that the less people that know, the better.

      • “If I get banned, I cannot come back.”

        A VPN, ‘tunneled’, if necessary, through a service that assigns dynamic IPs…

        • I didn’t know that was possible. It might be worth some research. But I’ve already made my promises to Dan Z, so it wouldn’t help me on this issue anyway.
          Although… it would allow me to try posting as Pg2 and determine for myself that it brings the ban hammer down. So far, I’ve had to just take the one posting’s (whoever he might be), word for that.

      • I’ve been banned here before. For (shouldn’t surprise anyone) crude language. It was temporary. Lasted a few days or so. I continue to use crude and childish language at my leisure for when I deem the situation requires it.

        • But I’ve been highly critical of TTAG’s clickbait/repost nature ever since WOM took over.
          I’ve been critical of TTAG’s new nature on substantive grounds. Somehow, if they ban me, I doubt I will ever get that “second chance”, that they might well give to less weighty issues. 🙂

        • “But I’ve been highly critical of TTAG’s clickbait/repost nature ever since WOM took over.”

          Are you proposing TTAG implement a strict NIH policy?

        • I’ve never been banned, as I’m newer, having joined earlier this year, but I *have* seen several of my comments disappear without any apparent reason. I’ve never violated the comment rules, as far as I know. I sure would like to see the deletions stop.

    • Concerning admin rights, I do know that the list of possibles is possibly a lot larger than many folks may realize. Over the years, TTAG ownership has extended those privileges to a number of contributers over the years, and may well have not terminated those accounts, as a matter of convenience, in case they may contribute again to TTAG in the future.

      Personally, I don’t mind little ‘vlad’ or ’49’er’, they make wonderful punch-toys (digital ‘reactive targets’, so to speak) for those times when I get the itch to vent some venom… 🙂

      • But that theory doesn’t account for the fact that Dan Z admitted to being the one to do the censoring. That doesn’t mean that its so, OFC. Perhaps Pg2 had him ordered to take the blame without even knowing who he was covering for. Or perhaps Dan Z IS Pg2. At this point, anything is possible.
        That’s the problem with underhanded secrets. Like LaTrine, once your secrets get exposed, ignoring them is a fail, because that means minds will go to the very worst the secret could be. Whatever can be imagined could be, because the secret keepers deleted all the evidence, which means speculation can run rampant.
        Is it possible that W.O.M. bought the place just to put a Bloomberg employee in charge of IT to destroy a comment section he doesn’t like? Sure. Why not? Its not like Bloomberg paid more for TTAG than he typically spends on lunch.

        • Well while this is all up, I’d like to bring up the fact that I’m quite confident both Vlad and Pg2 used to troll The Firearm Blog. I know for a fact I’ve seen vlads copy and paste bullshit there, particularly his anti .45 rant many times. It’s not always under that name however. But same exact writing style and looks pasted verbatim.

        • “But that theory doesn’t account for the fact that Dan Z admitted to being the one to do the censoring.”
          Pulling posts that have nothing to do with guns is part of Dan’s job. That’s not a secret. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. That’s the way it’s been since TTAG was founded, long before it was purchased by WOM. Dan’s been here since the beginning.

        • Liar, liar… Pants on fire!
          It was NEVER like what happened in July when RF ran the place. NEVER! Posts that actually violated the rules were occasionally taken down, but never were perfectly above board posts removed, and then bulls**t stories invented to cover up the facts. That’s all on you current W.O.M. employees.
          The only thing we don’t already know is whether you’re just doing as you’re told, or if it’s all your own idea.

        • I’ve forgotten. What percentage of ownership of this blog do you represent? TTAG is what it is. Take advantage of what you can; ignore the rest.

          BTW…if you start your own blog about guns, I will sign-up.

        • Knute, you’re fairly new here. RF and Dan (again, Dan’s one of the orignal partners here) pulled posts every single day. They spent too much time doing it. People like you and PG2 force them to take time away from improving content to deal with your childish, petty bullshit.

        • As a TTAG admin, with access to my email address, you know full well that I was here as “Ken” first (until someone co-opted that name) for years, and then changed to “Kenneth” to avoid confusion, until that moniker, too, was taken by others. Knute nobody else has wanted… yet.
          But always under the same email and with the same ISP. Just look back years ago and see. I’ve been here almost since the inception. I certain hope your shooting is more accurate than your command of TTAG’s history.

        • Knute, I am not an admin. Even if I was, you are not important enough to go through all that trouble.
          The fact that you have apparently had to change names multiple times tells me all I need to know.

        • What it should tell you is that allowing anybody to steal another’s user name anytime they want creates confusion, and is therefore a very poor system. But, you obviously like it that way. Confusion is in your favor, isn’t it? Perhaps you ARE Pg2/vlad… they like to sow confusion also.

    • What are you talking about? Why? Is this really important?

      As someone with admin privileges here, I must say you vastly over-estimate the amount of time we devote to reading comments. At best we just skim through them on a semi-random basis. Unless they are reported, which is pretty unusual. Or if they trip the automated software that holds them for moderation (multiple links like your comment, certain keywords (l e s b i a n being one of them) and other triggering things few and far between. I will address those if I see comments awaiting moderation (maybe a couple each day) and approve them unless they are personal attacks, threats or spam.

      Next time you want to post something completely unrelated to the topic at hand, put it in the EDC post.

      • “Put it in the EDC post.” 😂

        Well now that I know what will get you to personally view more of my comments… if I continue to use more racey words like nigger, hokey, kike, spick, Jew, faggot, Hebrew, chink, gook, dunecoon, and assclown. Assclown is probably my favorite word of all time.

        1,000 points to ttag if this post makes it through the filter 😂

        • Don’t buy this BS. That is absolutely NOT the way it went down on the night of July 17 last. There was no violation of any policies, there was no ‘hold’, the first comment posted fine, that is how I got to copy it. I’ve seen many a post disappear, both mine and many others. I judged that this one wouldn’t stay up for long. I Hav A Question and I were discussing it, and just when I stated that I had saved the original comment, the entire thread, including all of my, Haz, and others posts just vanished.
          All of the TTAG BS since, notwithstanding, that is exactly what happened. My last words were: I’m copying this anyway, just in case this thread ‘mysteriously’ disappears!
          ESP? Prognostication? Nay. Just expecting more of the same old, same old…

    • “How else can it be explained that this Pg2 person continues to post prohibited topics (similar to Vlad, by the way) and not only get a free pass, but block anyone who impersonates him while leaving others alone? Is this person in charge of the oversight of the comments, and therefore the fox in charge of the hen house?”

      Do you understand that it takes a staff member to read every single post to remove them? TTAG allows users a great deal of latitude, so if it’s even tangentially related to guns it stays up. That means it’s not an algorithm that drives it. It’s Dan, and maybe someone else if he can get them to do it. He has to pull himself away from writing, editing, and posting to read all the comments and then decide what gets pulled. Do you have any idea how much time that takes, and how spending that ridiculous amount of time takes away from the quality and quantity of content on this site? And you want more of it?

      Pg2 used to post about guns, then started posting about guns and vaccines, then started posting about vaccines only. Those posts got removed.
      Vlad/Cisco posts a bunch of crazy bullshit, but most of it at least starts to be about guns. (At least it used to, I haven’t read a comment from him in a long time.) So it stays up.

      When people complained about all of the non-gun related posts on TTAG (and a shitload of people complained) the editor rightly pulled posts. Then some of you really got your panties in a wad and remain complaining that your posts that have nothing to do with guns keep getting pulled down on a gun related website.

      You are part of the problem.

      • So anyone who notices your lies and duplicity is “part of the problem”?
        Well, granted that if you have skeletons in your closet to hide, I can see that. From the perspective of someone with a vested interest in keeping their secrets under wraps, people who won’t stop talking about dirty secrets are a rather large problem…
        But have you noticed how poorly the cover up is going lately?????

        • I don’t even know what you think is being covered up. WTF are you talking about?
          That posts not about guns are being deleted? This is not a cover up. This has been the way it has always been. It’s the way it is supposed to be.
          Again, if you want to have pages and pages of vaccine debates, there are plenty of pages for it. Go somewhere else for that.

        • None of that has any bearing on this. You know the issue is deleting a post about YOU, or someone else with TTAG admin access, deleting posts because of a cover up, NOT because “it wasn’t about guns”. The more you push that same tired lie, the sillier you look.

        • No Ken, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Based on the comments, I’m apparently not the only one. What posts about guns do you think were deleted?

  4. I wonder out load if friendly law firms were or are becoming too expensive…That their results have garnered increased fees , and the piggy bank is running near empty.Institutions from time to time must make adjustments – Yet the optics here are the stuff of a bar brawl. My jury is out for a considerable time to come and I’am praying for a speedy resolution prior to the 2020 “battle for our very existence “

  5. it is not the NRA but Wayne LaPierre and he needs to be kicked out maybe be just a person that helps the NRA with people he knows but quit having anything with running the operational part of it that way the membership can regain faith in the NRA I know that what I am waiting on

  6. Careful some of you may suffer waynicide.
    PS Don’t care ’bout trolls. 1 or 2 posts show them for what they are. Replying to them only encourages ’em.
    Must say, vlad (the impaler) is a pain in the ass.

  7. Hey ho, Wayne must go. NRA-ILA did some great and important work, yet much remains to be done. Abandoning everyone in midstream speaks to a lack of ethics. If Wayne didn’t care for Cooper, he should have arranged a smooth transition to another attorney, maintaining the relationships with affiliates, and not just chopping off the arm that is so important to our 2A rights. Shall we call it “Wayne’s Firing Squad”? It reeks of a tyranny.

    • According to The NY Times article linked above, Wayne did begin to transition to a new firm, and “second rivalry was brewing, between Mr. Cooper and William A. Brewer III, a Democrat whom Mr. LaPierre had hired a year earlier. Mr. Brewer ascended quickly and began getting all of the significant legal work, including several congressional and state inquiries.”

      Why was a democratic attorney getting so much business from Wayne?

      • Because he had a familial relation to the board of AMc. Family infighting seems to have started around the time of the NRA infighting.

  8. I’ve sent an email to the NRA stating I won’t renew until Wayne is gone. Simple as that. Dry up the well.

    • That well won’t run dry for three reasons:
      1) Every gun club that runs its own range will continue to force all members to pay the NRA because that is a requirement to them to get insurance through the NRA (which is the only somewhat affordable way to get insurance for a club range)
      2) Too much of the industry (especially at the retail level) supports the NRA without taking any interest in what is going on. This is going to keep going on pure inertia because gun shops and sporting goods stores have always figured it was good business to have NRA signs and decals all over the place.
      3) Most important, there are millions of people (on both sides of the gun rights debate) who honestly believe that the NRA is the one and only pro-gun organization in existence despite the fact that the NRA has been consistently and actively anti-RKBA since the 1930’s.

      • Good points. As more shit hits the fan and the fan speeds up, then hopefully upper NRA leadership will do the right thing. In the meantime we can still support GOA, FPC, our state Gun Rights Groups, and show strength in numbers.

        • “Good points. As more shit hits the fan and the fan speeds up, …”

      • As true as that is, running on inertia is a certain way to lose. Remember IBM computers back in the day? As Compac, H.P. and Dell started competing, IBM’s only response was; “We’ll bury them”! Because, OFC, IBM was many times the size of all the other computer companies put together. Yet I can’t help but notice that Dell is still around, and IBM no longer makes computers. Who buried who in that deal?

        • “IBM is valued at about $30 billion more than Dell.”

          True, but their PC/Laptop line of business returned $0.00 since the crash of Delta 191 at DFW.

          Side note: IBM exists today because of a former Nabisco salesman, not because of engineering prowess.

        • JWTaylor:
          Now you are really grasping at straws. The subject was the IBM compatible computer, which IBM no longer makes. Why would you bring in their cash register dept.? Other than as a red herring, I mean?

        • Ken, because you asked the question of who was burying who. I answered your question. Neither company is buried. But IBM is certainly on top. They are on top because they have proven to be agile, giving up on a less profitable business line for a more profitable one.

          And by the way, that’s actually not comparing the cash register of either company. That is comparing they’re valuation. If you wanted to compare their cash register, it would only further prove my point, as IBM’s annual revenue is worth more than Dells entire valuation.

    • Probably way more than you think
      Most of us keep our neck tucked in, watch what’s going on , and keep buying G&A.
      We WILL be there when it’s time.
      Making a stink just ’cause you can ain’t always right.
      Never give the enemy a weapon to use against you.
      Never interrupt an enemy when he is making a mistake.
      Born free, live free, die free.

      • Probably waaaay more than we think. It SEEMS like the left is in charge but that is only because they own the media, so their view is the one that gets on TV. But what has Davey the Hogg ever actually done? Other than get on TV?
        He makes a lot of noise, and uses that that noise to feather his personal Harvard nest, but that’s about it. Has anyone here ever talked to a real person that agrees with anything Hogg Boy has ever said?

  9. Being as far away from whats going on I dont know what to think.
    But being I consider myself as a American gun owner and I know I have had to deside what was more important paying dues or paying a bill or more ammo. And I have payed NRA dues everytime but it is getting harder to deside this as this continues.
    I wasnt paying so some fat cat can have a plush life style I was paying to guard the 2nd amendment.
    I dont know were to turn now.

  10. Screw you old Wayne. And ANYONE who defends the NRA. Now it’s personal. You’ll never get a dime from me! And Bullwinkle-TTAG has been FAR worse. I don’t appreciate you hijacking a post about old Wayne effing ILLinois. FWIW I am amused by vacine boy. Vlad may be 2ASUX in an alternate universe…I just try to ignore the trolls.

  11. Ha, so Boch thought Wayne would not rule with an iron hand when he caught Cooper stabbing him in the back. Well welcome to the world of realpolitik. Its obvious Cooper and Boch both flunked world history. Love Wayne or hate Wayne from his viewpoint he had no choice and if his former enemies do not come crawling back begging for forgiveness. Kiss all your guns goodbye because the garden hose of money has been shut off permanently. . You got what you deserved. Its a dog eat dog world out there and when you bite the hand that is feeding you, self destruction is a certainty.

    While the unwashed scream that they will give money to this pint size pro gun organization and or that pint size organisation , well then go crawling to those organizations for help now but they do not have the same amount of money, power or influence as the mighty NRA does. And I might add you should have been aware of that reality long ago. When they take your guns just remember you were your own worst enemy by stabbing old Wayne in the back, at least that is what he will tell you right to your face and in many ways he is telling you the truth.

    • ‘vlad’, did your mom drop you on your pointed head as a baby?

      Multiple times? 😉

    • The boy is something of an expert on crawling and begging for forgiveness. His mother fell for it every time. When he was 17, he finally figured out how to open her underwear drawer. He would go prancing around the neighborhood, dressed in nothing but mama’s unmentionables, pretending he was a billionaire. He would tell the other kids in the neighborhood that he was buying up all of the politicians and judges. Everyone had to do whatever he said or else! It all came crashing to a halt when a group of third grade girls started hunting him. They were relentless, and every time they caught him, they would curb stomp him something fierce. I was never sure if he just grew to crave the beatings over time, or if that was his plan from the beginning.

  12. If this report is accurate, we now know the NRA is an unreliable partner. Wayne Lapierre is determined to sink the greatest organization of its kind. And the NRA’s president and remaining board members have willingly decided to accompany him.

    Earlier today I answered a call with the caller ID name blank with only a number showing. It was the NRA an elderly sounding lady said, reading from a script. She was telling me of Wayne’s work to preserve the 2nd Amendment and that by upgrading from endowment member to the next highest level, whatever that may be, I can have my name engraved at NRA HQ and save our gun rights and so on and so on, until I had to interrupt and decline to give the NRA any more money. I wasn’t really listening to every word but as soon as I heard a call for money I stopped listening. She tried to keep me on the line longer and I had to hang up on her.

    Was it a scam or was it the NRA ?

    • “remaining board members have willingly decided to accompany him”
      I think that some of remaining board members will make a shift like the others that prepared a way-out. The NRA ship is sinking, but very slow. In the meantime we as POTG, need to keep fighting, e.g. bring in new shooters, support other gun orgs and gun rights leaders, keep an eye on the Antis.

  13. Personally I support Wayne LaPear. I find his greed, hostility and arrogance refreshing and honest. You too can now start a non-profit and directly convert membership dues into your own personal wealth. It was the NRA who made Wayne veil his megalomaniacal ways using patriotism. Wayne has taken the gloves off and stripped away all pretense of being a do-gooder and makes everyone who ever served in the mafia look like a pansy.

    Wayne has a pair
    Rock on mon frere!

  14. Maybe what the NRA needs to do is invite a panel of 50 (one from each state) to Fairfax to go through things for two weeks and see where the chips actually fall. Then they can publish those finding to the web for all NRA members to read. After which the membership can vote to keep Wayne or let him go and replace him. Perhaps the same should be true for all upper level officers of the NRA.

    I am a member of the NRA, Paid thru 2024. I support the ILA and PVL each year. I do not see the need for some of the things the NRA does, but I do see great value in many of the other things. I can also see the past where Wayne has done a lot of good for the NRA, its members and gun rights in general, but that in itself does not mean things are right today. Keep an open mind and investigate. We shouldn’t be complacent and let the NRA fall, but we shouldn’t take the don nothing option either. An open an honest investigation is not something anyone should fear if they are innocent.

    • You do understand that the NRA-ILA has been raided by the NRA, right? All of the NRA-ILA’s key staff have either resigned or have been fired. The NRA-ILA is under direct control by Wayne LaPierre’s office. The NRA-ILA was forced to “loan” money to the NRA. Wayne’s piggy bank must be replenished.

    • Actually a good idea, however I can’t vote because I’ve only been a member for three years. Those who vote have been voting for the same people for the last 20 years. The rules favor the establishment, but I know that is to prevent our foes from effecting the outcome. I joined NRA because they are the 500 lb. gorilla in the fight but I have been , sadly, misled.It would seem that another organization would pick up the attention of legislators as NRA is in self destruct mode, I’ll wait………….PM

      • “Those who vote have been voting for the same people for the last 20 years. ”

        Actually, there is no way to know if that is even true or not. There is zero accountability on the accuracy of vote count. Who they say was elected is who gets put in place regardless of what the actual vote count may have been. We have no way to know if they are telling the truth or not.

  15. If you would strike at the King, you must kill him. Else, you endure the retaliation, which will be unyielding and inexorable. The NRA counterculture failed to remove the King. Kings are always paranoid about insurrection, and burning out the infection by also destroying some loyalists is “jus’ bidness”

  16. It still looks like only lawsuits and criminal prosecution will remove WLP. I won’t get into the debate of was he good or bad for us in the distant past. Today and in these recent years he is a money grubbing disaster, a man I have zero confidence in and believe has committed crimes under the New York laws that govern non-profits.

    If he wanted a positive legacy, it is far too late, he’s stayed too long, lost touch with the cause, become part of the problem in a big bad way.

    • Agree – any decent leader that get that significant pressure from the base to step back needs to actually step back and let somebody trusted take over.

      No decency, not standing up for our rights and the 2A anymore and 90% of the messages coming from them being begging for more money makes me hope that people find a way to kick him out of the office and the NRA.

  17. John,

    The manner in which they notified Todd that he was out, a few years back speaks volumes about the organization. If you can respond with a way to donate to your cause, I’m in. Todd still works his tail off for us gun owners here in illinois, along with the fine folks from Illinois Carry. I’m happy to support them, as they do good work and are known as very good people. Wayne LaPierre is a steaming pile of feces. i haven’t given the NRA a dime in a few years. I’m sending my Lifetime membership back to HQ via FedEx tomorrow. I will be encouraging my friends to do the very same. Of course most of my friends stopped supporting the NRA financially at about the same time i did. Until Wayne his mouth breathing friends are out of the NRA, so am I. I am hoping they lose their non profit status and find some dirt on Wayne that can stick so they can bring him up on charges. Wishful thinking on my part,I know. LOL….Wayne is the last guy i want representing me in anything, period.

  18. Guns Save Life is a 501 c) 7 social club, EIN 30-0059231. In its only filing to the IRS Form 990 EO for 2017, it reports approximately $97 k in fundraising and about $94 k in total expenses. These include about $28 k for compensation to Mr Bosh, and $27 k for newspaper expenses. No legal fees of note are on that particular filing. It would be interesting to see additional filings for 2018, perhaps one would see some legal expenditures there. But one could also wonder as to whether Guns Save Life was simply a party for standing in Illinois, and that NRA was actually paying for all the legal. In this second case, a new legal firm may possibly enter an appearance on NRA’s behalf for future worthwhile efforts.

    • One could wonder a lot of things, Anthony. And yes, my wife reminds me on occasion that I’m worth a lot more than the $11 an hour for the time I put into GSL.

      At no time did I say or suggest GSL paid for (all of) the legal.

      But with the NRA-ILA out of the picture when it comes to paying Cooper and Kirk, it’s sort of our responsibility to come up with funding, don’t you think?

      And if you see what GSL does with $100k budget, just imagine what we could do with a $1.5M budget like the ISRA… or the $300+M budget of the National Rifle Association.

      • It would be illuminating to see what a group whose contributions are likewise not tax deductible also conduct lobbying activities at the local level in Illinois as well. Perhaps the publicity of attacking NRA will bring you new contributions, perhaps it will not. But until you know for sure that NRA is withdrawing from all legal cases in Illinois, and not instead calling for another firm to enter into the fray, it might have been prudent to wait before going on record the way you did.

        • ” Perhaps the publicity of attacking NRA will bring you new contributions, perhaps it will not.”

          If I’m asking for contributions, you’ll know it. Later in comments in this very post, I responded to a gentleman asking how he could help. And I said sit tight.

          “But until you know for sure that NRA is withdrawing from all legal cases in Illinois”

          I know what my lawyers told me.

          “and not instead calling for another firm to enter into the fray,”

          Sure. Let me break out the Yellow Pages and look for the most impressive multi-page advert to pick out a new firm, right? Especially when the firm we currently have representing us is about as close to an all-star legal “Dream Team” as you could get.

          “it might have been prudent to wait before going on record the way you did.”

          Fortune favors the bold. Not the meek.

        • What also might be illuminating is some math:
          $28,000 in compensation for Mr. Boch, who just claimed that was $11 per hour. $28,000/ $11 per hour through 2017 equals 2,545.45 hours he wants you to believe he worked. Let’s just round that to 2548/48 hours per week equals 52 weeks. So Mr. Boch would like us to believe that he worked for GSL for 48 hours a week, for 52 weeks (the whole year), for that 28K, PLUS wrote for TTAG (and other sites), and still travels and teaches classes?
          I wish I had that many hours in my day. Or perhaps Mr. Boch has mastered never sleeping?
          Everyone who believes that story, stand on your head….

        • Knuteken,

          You obviously you’re speaking from Ignorance. I know mr. Boch, and I have no doubt he spends 50 hours a week on behalf Gun Safe Life. In fact, I don’t know how he does it. And now that I know that is compensation is less than 30 grand, I respect him even more.

          What have you done for the cause Of gun rights? Hmmm?

          Except bitch about this, that, or the other, or missing posts and criticizing pro-gun Patriots.

        • Ken, I’m a quiet reader of this site. I’ve watched the whole need of deleted posts, impersonations, your three names through the years, and all the rest. I’ve had my thoughts as to what the truth of that whole matter is. But it’s not worth putting my thoughts out there cause it’s nothing new under the sun.

          But I am writing in to say one thing. If you want people to believe you about the post/topic/ban fiasco, personally attacking a man whose personal life you know nothing about does nothing to help your cause. Would probably be better to just shut up.

    • Watching this space fo sho. As a fellow Illinoiser here I’m kind of torn between giving up and leaving or not especially with the way that things are right now. It’s not just guns but the thought we may end up with a whole state that winds up like Detroit.

  19. So, what does the Illinois State Rifle Assn say? They are the state organization that does things in Illinois. I smell egos burning in this story.

  20. WLP is starting to remind me of Hitler in the final scenes of Downfall; “The people have failed me! Destroy everything!”

  21. Wayne is a pompous ass and a terrible face for the organization. I won’t contribute another dollar until he steps down.

    The NRA needs to be about its members again. The britches have gotten too fancy. Screw Wayne (and Hammer et. al.).

  22. Well that is gratitude for you. You open stating you acknowledge your great debt to Wayne without ever mentioning his name, then you fail to appreciate the situation they put Wayne in, loyalty is a two way street sir. If this is your way of saying “we need help, please help us”, it is a very poor effort. Your ingratitude is truly staggering. As an NRA member I am offended by your lack of appreciation and willingness to turn on the NRA in such a vicious manner. You will also get no Christmas cards my friend.

    • As an Illinois resident and NRA member, I am appalled that WLP abandoned support of these suits and Illinois gun owners.

      By the way, I liked the original headline better.

      As for gratitude, yeah I guess we are all ingrates for failing to thank old Wayne for fucking us in the ass and not even having the common courtesy of giving us a reach around.

      Well, all of us except Mr. Gottstein.

  23. The Globalists, Deep State, ALL of the New World 🌎 Order has invaded the NRA…Destorying it from within, and from outside…I used to think this was funny fringe talk…Now NOT so much under current circumstances….

    • “We will spoon-fed you little bits of Socialism, until that one final day, you will wake up with Communism”.- Nikita Khrushchev.

      The old Soviet Espionage Tactic of Infiltration.

  24. Ugh. I’m done with LaPierre. I’ve been giving him the benefit of the doubt for a few months now, but to punish me and other Illinois gun-owners because he doesn’t like Cooper, shows that he really is more for himself than for the rest of us.

  25. Wayne LaF***-Up is truly a steaming, stenchy PILE OF DOGS***!!

    I apologize to the bloggers here at TTAG for the foul language, but the more that Wayne LaF***-Up acts, the more he reveals to us that he is the typical Country-Club, ESTABLISHMENT Republican. Campaign on ‘Constitutionalism’ and ‘Conservativism’, get elected, and proceed to “Go Along to Get Along”. Have real-time with Democrats and be ‘Bi-Partisan’ (advance the Democrat Agenda).

    Campaign about and for the 2nd Amendment and Gun Rights, but he’s just doing it to PROFITEER off of the Campaign itself. F*** HIM!!

  26. The NRA is longer a civil rights organization. It’s a social club, that all it really is. They have conventions. They have dinner parties. They hang out together.

  27. I don’t understand the author’s intent. Unless he is in fact an anti gun troll. The fact that LaPierre fired the council here is a good thing. According to the authors own words, The NRA should also file an ethics complaint against them with the BAR association. Let me simplify what is so confusing.

    If you were getting a divorce and the attorney you were paying called up your soon to be ex wife and worked with her to screw you over, would you then hire that attorney to represent you in another matter?

    The NRA is hiring new attorney’s. The author here is on a power trip that gets high thinking he can help destroy the greatest gun rights organization we’ve ever had.

    • You are quite uninformed.

      The NRA hired Bill Brewer as their lawyer LAST YEAR to deal with the legal fallout from the NRA Carry Guard Disaster. Since then, Bill Brewer has established himself as the NRA’s lawyer for all the scandals the organization’s officials are involved in. Bill Brewer is not a 2A attorney and does not lead 2A lawsuits.

      Bill Brewer is currently not authorized to practice in his home state, Texas, because he was caught influencing jurors and witnesses in a case. He is also not authorized to practice in Virginia, because he lied to the judge while representing the NRA in court. Bill Brewer also has a history of bleeding his clients dry while pursuing endless lawsuits. He is currently charging the NRA over $100k PER DAY in fees.

      Bill Brewer is also an in-law of the McQueen family, as in Ackerman McQueen, the company the NRA is suing. Bill Brewer has also donated to Democrats, including to Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Beto O’Rourke in 2018.

      That, in a nutshell, is the lawyer you are defending.

      The NRA has severed their relationship with the Cooper & Kirk law firm. Charles Cooper is a 2A attorney and is leading 2A lawsuits. He does not represent the NRA in other legal matters. That is the lawyer you are attacking.

      The word on the street is that Cooper & Kirk was fired, because the NRA simply does not have the money to pay them. If the NRA had any proof of what they are alleging, they could easily file an ethics complaint. They haven’t!







    [email protected]

    Written Letters to:
    NRA Headquarters, 11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030. Letters addressed to individual directors will probably be forwarded to them, but open letters to the entire board are more likely to be scanned and posted on the website like emails are. To learn the best way to communicate with directors, members can call NRA HQ at 703-267-1000 and ask for the Secretary’s Office


    Joe M. Allbaugh
    William H. Allen
    Thomas P. Arvas
    Scott L. Bach
    William A. Bachenberg
    M. Carol Bambery
    Bob Barr
    Ronnie G. Barrett
    Clel Baudler
    J. Kenneth Blackwell
    Matt Blunt
    Dan Boren
    Robert K. Brown
    Pete R. Brownell
    Dave Butz
    Ted W. Carter
    Richard R. Childress
    Patricia A. Clark
    Allan D. Cors
    Charles L. Cotton
    David G. Coy
    Larry E. Craig
    John L. Cushman
    R. Lee Ermey
    Edie P. Fleeman
    Joel Friedman
    Sanda S. Froman
    Marion P. Hammer
    Kim Rhode Harryman
    Maria Heil
    Graham Hill
    Steve Hornady
    Susan Howard
    Curtis S. Jenkins
    David A. Keene
    Tom King
    Timothy Knight
    Herbet A. Lanford, Jr.
    Willes K. Lee
    Karl A. Malone
    Sean Maloney
    Robert E. Mansell
    Carolyn D. Meadows
    Bill Miller
    Owen Buz Mills
    Craig Morgan
    Grover G. Norquist
    Col. Oliver L. North
    Robert A. Nosler
    Johnny Nugent
    Ted Nugent
    Lance Olson
    Melanie Prepper
    James W. Porter II
    Peter J. Printz
    Todd J. Rathner
    Wayne Antony Ross
    Carl T. Rowan Jr.
    Don Saba
    William H. Satterfield
    Mercedes Schlapp
    Ronald L. Schmeits
    Esther Q. Schneider
    Steven C. Schreiner
    Tom Selleck
    John C. Sigler
    Leroy Sisco
    Bart Skelton
    Dwight D. Van Horn
    Blaine Wade
    Linda L. Walker
    Howard J. Walther
    Heidi E. Washington
    Allen B. West
    Robert J. Wos
    Donald E. Young

  29. Perhaps another question for Mr Bosh- Which entity is paying Mr Ambler’s fees on the FOID case recently filed by GSL?

  30. I gave up on the NRA back in 2012, and haven’t sent them a dime ever since. WLP needs to go – enough is enough!

    With the fear of backlash in the eyes of God and assorted churches all over, I kind of view Wayne LaPierre and (mega-church pastor) Joel Osteen as one in the same. Same tactics, different reasons.

    I have since joined GOA….

  31. Criticism of John Boch is unwarranted. I am on the GSL Board of Directors and know for a fact that he probably does spend 50 hours a week on GSL. Seven regional meetings each month from Charleston to Chicago. Travel to and fro. He gets $0.24 a mile to wear out his car. I doubt he clears $9 an hour. He buys lots of gun drawing tickets at the meetings which goes to GSL. In fact, I worry about him dropping dead of a heart attack.
    I have pushed for GSL spending money on lawsuits, but we simply do not have the resources. As I understand it NRA-ILA has to have a local group or individual to file as the plaintiff in these lawsuits, and then they pick up the tab. We fill that role in Deerfield, and the FOID lawsuit. If we liquidated all our assets including bequests, I doubt if we could pay for just one lawsuit. We are the “non” in non-profit. The treasurer, the secretary and the membership guy work for free and log full time hours for this labor of love.

    • It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and complain. How many have actually run an NRA match? Taught an NRA class? Donated regularly not money, but TIME and EFFORT? How many have put their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor on the line?
      Until you have, shut up. Get in the trench and WORK FOR YOUR FREEDOM. Your pansy ass whining is giving me a headache.

      • “How many have actually run an NRA match? Taught an NRA class? Donated regularly not money, but TIME and EFFORT? How many have put their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor on the line?”

        How, precisely, does any of that mitigate the corruption being reported daily? Note that NRA is not really denying any of the charges, merely offering explanations that boil down to, “Who you gonna believe? Me, or your lying eyes?”

      • We are being told to “shut up” by the NRA leadership lately a lot. That’s not how a membership organization works! Your ignorance and arrogance is part of the problem.

        NRA Endowment Life Member

    • Dear Mr. Menard,
      Thanks for your clarification on the status of GSL as Plaintiff in a number of cases. Technically, however, these are NRA cases due to your concession that GSL cannot afford even one case by itself. In addition, it would seem that Mr. Ambler is still on the case, someone GSL and NRA have gone to before. Therefore the case does not lack representation at this time.

      A number of we volunteers here in California have likewise donated money and time for RKBA efforts over decades in the literal “Belly of the Beast” here on the Left Coast. One of our Member’s Councils is even colloquially called that nickname, given its location in the San Francisco Bay area.

      That being said, it’s common for NRA in various states to bear the brunt of expenditure for legal actions on worthwhile cases. GSL’s participation seems to be an important element to efforts to defeat gun confiscation by attrition in Illinois. Thank you for your and your group’s participation in helping defend the Second Amendment wherever and whenever it’s needed.


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