Washington Post: You Can’t Improve Police Conduct Without Stricter Gun Control Laws

Police conduct protest

(AP Photo/Mary Altaffer)

Our friends in the anti-gun media know an opportunity when they see one. While the murder of George Floyd didn’t involve a firearm in any way, shape or form, the Washington Post’s Robert Gebelhoff has engaged in a bit of pretzel-like logical contortion in order to argue that you can’t expect to reform the nation’s police forces without further restricting the gun rights of all American citizens.

Reading his op-ed, you know what you’re in for when when he quickly whips out an old favorite of the civilian disarmament industry, claiming that America is in the midst of an “epidemic of gun violence.” We could fully fisk this load of equine fecal matter, but we’ve done it dozens of times. The inconvenient fact that Gebelhoff refuses to acknowledge is that America has been experiencing historically low violent crime rates at a time when the number of civilian-owned guns has never been higher.

But then we get to the good part. So to speak.

Police reform and gun reform go hand in hand. Reducing the easy availability of guns would not eliminate the problems with policing in America nor end unwarranted killings, but it would help. …

Simply put, police are more likely to use lethal force when they believe lethal force might be used against them. We’ve seen the tragic results: Police fatally shooting scores of people, including children, because they mistake their toy guns for real weapons. Or shooting an adult man because he’s holding a cellphone. Or a hammer. Or a pipe. Or a lighter.

Got that? Gebelhoff points out that police sometimes kill innocent people because they mistake things in their hands for firearms. What’s his solution?

[M]ore stringent gun laws would also represent an important step to reduce police shootings and to make communities safer overall. There are a number of remedies available — from mandating safe storage of firearms to requiring licenses for ownership, many of which states have already implemented — that can reduce gun deaths without violating Second Amendment rights.

Safe storage laws have literally nothing to do with police misbehavior or their mistakenly killing unarmed people. Not a single thing. As for gun licensure, not only is that a direct infringement on the right to keep and bear arms, but there is no other enumerated civil right — speech, voting, religious freedom — that is subject to a government permission slip.

Requiring a license to exercise your Second Amendment rights is both unconstitutional and abhorrent. To say nothing of the fact that having a gun license wouldn’t reduce a single occurrence of police misbehavior or prevent the shooting of one unarmed individual.

In a nation of over 400 million firearms, there is literally no way of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and those who might present a reasonable threat to police officers. Crooks don’t bother with niceties like gun permits, even in the few places that currently require them (ask anyone at the NYPD). So requiring licenses will do nothing to alleviate a cop’s fear that the thing in a perp’s had is a gun.

Despite what you read in the media these days, the vast number of police officers in this country are good people doing the best job they can. The few bad actors like the Derek Chauvins of the world make all cops look bad.

How would Robert Gebelhoff do something to “reform” policing? He wants to see . . .

…overdue structural and cultural changes needed to excise the bad behavior in law enforcement. That should include the demilitarization of police, a greater investment in local social services and a national reconciliation effort in communities plagued with officer-involved violence.

One out of three constitutes success in baseball, but if you want to positively affect the quality of policing in this country, that’s a dismal batting average.

Demilitarization would be a definite plus. The over-use of SWAT teams and the use of de-mobbed military gear by cops around the country is a serious problem that increases the us vs. them mindset among police forces and officers. But dumping even more taxpayer dollars into “local social services” (the federal government alone spent $361 billion in 2019) as well as setting up some kind of ill-defined, airy-fairy “national reconciliation effort” would no doubt have zero practical impact on the conduct of the average cop on the beat.

If you really want to get bad cops off the streets and make all of them think first before they act, there are two surefire changes that need to be made. First, eliminate police unions that protect the jobs of bad cops like Chauvin. He’d been involved in two prior shootings, was the subject of 20 complaints and received two letters of reprimand in his 19 years on the job. It’s difficult if not impossible to fire problem cops…until something like George Floyd happens.

The second remedy for bad policing is the elimination of qualified immunity. That’s the judiciary-created doctrine that protects government employees from being personally liable for constitutional violations. Violations like the use of excessive force. If police officers — or their civilian superiors in the mayor’s office — were held personally liable for infringing on individuals’ civil rights, there would be a lot less of that kind of conduct.

Somehow, however, Mr. Gebelhoff didn’t mention those solutions. Why? Did they just not occur to him? Some might say it’s because they violate two dearly held features of government in this country that are jealously defended by liberals; Democrat vote-generating labor organizations combined with a lack of individual accountability. But we couldn’t possibly comment.

In any case, Gebelhoff’s fatuous prescriptions for somehow improving police officer conduct by limiting the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans are irrational, incoherent and would be wholly ineffective. In other words, they’re exactly what we’ve come to expect from a Washington Post columnist opining on the subject of gun rights.

 

comments

  1. avatar Dave in Houston says:

    gebelhoff is an idiot! gun laws DO NOT WORK!

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      And they are un Constitutional.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        True, but +1 for the cop in the pic and his creative wind-up for that Antifa rioter he’s about to “educate”.

        BTW, I don’t see a single black person in that photo. All 100% white rioters.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Is that cop winding up to club the rioter? Or is that simply a wonderful “candid” shot of a jubilant police officer dancing in the streets and celebrating with other protesters?

        2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          Nope, his eyes are locked on his target.

          Riot-boy is about to get schooled… 🙂

        3. avatar Montana Actual says:

          You saw one pic of white soi bois… congrats.

          Google image says it’s a pretty mixed group.

          Also, I even saw someone who boarded up their store and painted “Black owned business” on it…

          The race baiting never stops. Antifa… or anyone who showed up to riot and loot… was a mixed batch. They always have been. Actually, I have seen more blacks in the riots than whites in the majority of pics I can find. Why? They are BLM too.

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          That’s a stock photo that TTAG has used before. It’s been around the web since 2013 and comes from a “2012 in pictures” photo spread.

    2. avatar guest says:

      Holy shit the cover photo on this article is *fantastic*

      Someone should frame that.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        Yeah, if he connects Soi Boi is gonna have a bad day, if he misses the cop will probably have a heart attack….. either way that cop most likely has only one shot like that in him…

    3. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      But, but . . . The 2nd Amendment (the entire Bill of Rights and Constitution itself) are examples of colonialism, and European hegemony and oppression and genocide of Native American people. The right to individually own a gun, as everyone knows, is racist. //sarc//

      1. avatar Ing says:

        Hey, you finally got it. Congratulations.

        Now, instead of perpetuating a culture that caused the genocide of others in the process of establishing itself on this continent, it’s time we turned the reins over to people who fervently believe in a system that routinely engages in the genocide of *its own* subjects.

        If we all pitch in, they can achieve a similar death toll in a few decades instead of spreading it over 400 years. That will be much better.

      2. avatar Debra Johnson says:

        Counting on the Constitution means youre on shakey ground if Blowhard Joe wibs in November. He has said more than once “the Constitution is just a piece of paper. No rights are etched in stone.” Can anyone imagine a lowlife who spouts that nonsense is actually running for president in this country??? And he has support of MSM, Hollywood, etc….I feel like Im in bizarro world. 😲

    4. avatar StLPro2A says:

      A politician with a law never stops a bad guy with a gun.
      He only controls the good guy, which is his true agenda.

    5. avatar Mercury says:

      Gun laws do work. Because their purpose is not to prevent crime, but to ensure the subjects on which they are imposed remain easy to oppress. They work flawlessly in this regard.

      1. avatar Tired of the bs says:

        Right !

  2. avatar TommyGNR says:

    They need to get the guns out of civilian hands because its a impediment to their socialist takeover of america. They need to make sure the only people who have guns are ones that are doing their dirty work for them. They can go pound sand.

    1. avatar Rad Man says:

      And once the guns are gone, we need only worry about being shot over cell phones, hammers, pipes, and lighters!

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        Hey, Rad –

        Wanna see something guaranteed to put a spring in your step, a *snicker* on your lips, a song in your heart, and a shit-eating grin on your face that just won’t quit?

        I just somehow knew you wanted to –

        “Activist Crushed By Falling Confederate Statue After Frenzied Mob Toppled It”

        https://www.zerohedge.com/political/activist-horribly-injured-when-confederate-statue-crushes-him-after-mob-rushes-pull-it

        “Medic! I need a medic!”

        Isn’t that the best thing you’ve seen today? 😉

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Pretty good. Thanks for that.

          “No justic…. MEDIC! WE NEED HELP!”

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Watched it happen… The broad on the statue has a priceless reaction… cheering the fall of the statue, her gleeful look abruptly changes to a horrified grimace as she realizes some poor asshole, not remembering the laws of gravity decided to just stand there and got his/her/its dumbass smashed by several hundred pounds of what appeared to be steel reinforced concrete…. good thing they took the head off first it might have REALLY hurt… Wonder who is paying the medical bills? BLM? Not… Antifa? Nahhh… Taxpayers? Ding, ding, ding…..

        3. avatar pwrscourge says:

          So you people enjoyed watching some poor bastard get horribly injured? That’s terrible. And I bet you consider yourselves Christians…

        4. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          No, I enjoyed watching a CRIMINAL in the act of DEFACING a public property and experiencing instant justice (that’s what they want, justice, right?) as a result of his stupidity… Kinda like you break into my home I shoot you, Gods okay with that… You engage in destruction of public property, you get injured as a result, I’m pretty sure Gods okay with that too.. If the dumbass was just walking down the street minding his own business, sorry about your luck… this stupid fuck put himself there and lacked the intellect to get out of the way of the big fucking cement thing coming at him from 8 to 10 feet above.. Did the snowflake think it was made of marshmallows?

        5. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Not a religious cult member. I enjoyed it. The same way I’d enjoy my foot on your throat.

        6. avatar pwrscourge says:

          Why so angry ‘Montana Actual’? Oh, that’s right: You’re a dickless coward.

        7. avatar strych9 says:

          And, as of 1810 Mountain Time Twitter has removed every video ZH posted links too.

          Fuck @Jack.

        8. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Fortunately I recorded it, put it on my phone, made a screenshot, put on my laptop background… Anytime I need a laugh it’s there at the ready, fuck twitter, that’s just ONE of the reasons I don’t do social media bullshit…

        9. avatar Ing says:

          Zero Hedge is now officially the nation’s good news leader.

        10. avatar Montana Actual says:

          pwr:

          How can you call someone angry when you are the one who initiated the confrontation? Did you miss the part about enjoying it? I consider that pretty fucken happy… lol.

        11. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Hey scourge…

          …still waiting for you to answer my earlier question.

        12. avatar Ad Astra says:

          Hey bro bet you wish the south rises again. Rises right of your crushed ribs, lol.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      the cops…as presently constituted…stand in their way, as well…thus the effort to eliminate or alter them…

  3. avatar Dennis says:

    Funny how that always ends up being one of the main goals, eh?

    1. avatar TheUnspoken says:

      So, uh, after we defund the police and also restrict all the law abiding gun owners, is that when the gangs and criminals voluntarily lay down their weapons? Then we can be one happy world, it will be great!

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        No. Silly. They protect communities. Duh.

        That little old lady in the apartment just scraping by starts looking like a good spot to protect until supplies run out.

  4. avatar Randy Jones says:

    That is what you would expect from the Lame Stream Media. everything starts and stops with: More Gun Control. Shame it doesn’t work.

  5. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Ah yes the Commiecrat’s can’t achieve their ultimate goal until there are no arms in the hands of the citizens of this nation. Arm up and carry on

    There are already problems in the Marxist utopia of CHAZ,all is not unicorns and rainbows, imagine that.

    Seattle Autonomous Zone Has First Case Police Brutality, Warlord

    https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2020/06/11/first-case-police-brutality/

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      This is easy when you look at it right. We can’t have effective and legal law enforcement unless we first surrender our rights. The answer? Defund the police. Wasn’t that easy?

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      “We are the police of this community now!”
      “We got to the point where addressing the point physically was the best way to get our point across.”
      In response to the subject saying his glasses were broken during the assault, “Yeah, we should have broken your face!”
      Don’t be making no threats n****, I’ll blow your brains out”

      Doesn’t even realize how much of a NAZI he is… oh, the irony. And, they used… walls… to establish borders? Hmm…

      Actually, I’m starting to develop the feels for the people in those businesses they are shaking down. Trying to tell myself to stay here. Too bad Seattle’s armed community did not follow the examples of every other armed communities and protect the city. Also, funny how the leftists describe their new land as “chill” because there is no fires or looting… Gay people tweeting about walking their dogs through the zone and saying things like “The right wants you to believe this is not a peaceful zone”.

      Can’t make this shit up. Literally the opposite of freedom going on there.

    3. avatar KenW says:

      That didn’t take long. Nutsylvania already has its first self appointed cop violence.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        movement afoot to ban the use of tear gas and rubber bullets…leaving what?…harsh language?….

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Yea and the first thing they use to “defend” their zone is guns… You cannot make the irony of this whole thing up. Probably the biggest hypocrisy in American history. Extortion is already there. “Police” brutality is already there. They set up borders. And they are still functioning off the government ran power grid/water supply even… lol. Or, better yet, when a border gets setup around their border.

          National guard in less than a day, who’s got $100 on it?

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          National Guard?

          Eh, on this one I’m betting no. After the homeless stole all the food the kiddies will probably come home when they get hungy.

          I said on a post yesterday that there’s a pretty simple solution to this: treat them like they want to be treated, as an independent nation that has to set up boarders and go through all the adult shit like having a treaty passed by the Senate. “The process” will *starve* these idiots out in a few days.

        3. avatar Ironhead says:

          10mm explosive tip caseless. Standard light armor piercing round.

  6. avatar enuf says:

    Of course you can reduce police brutality and police violence with stricter control of how police use their guns. Gun Control among police is a behavioral issue, it is a problem worth the time to work on.

    Just so long as it is understood it is about the behavior of police with guns, not the police owned guns themselves.

    Although I see no need for any police agency to own firearms superior to those I am “permitted” to own.

  7. avatar the shadow says:

    the cop in the white shirt has some serious dance moves…. wth is he trying to do..? is that some standard training move with an impact weapon I am unaware of?

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      It’s the “fugawe” tango move.
      In his head he keeps asking “why the fugawe here?”

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Best comment today.

    2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      I’m not an expert by any means, but it looks like his eyes are on the masked idiot’s knee.
      Is he going to spin the baton around to get more momentum going? Left leg up…
      I would not want to be hit by it…no matter how he’s doing it.

    3. avatar Piggly Wiggly says:

      Nope. He’s just a fat pig.

  8. avatar Billb says:

    Right now leftist antifa/blm have seized a few blocks in seattle, barricaded it off. They are pretty well armed. Police were stood down. No leftist politician or media outcry that I have heard of. They’ve essentially done what nazis did when they occupied other countries/cities. The citizens living there are stuck. They’ve same some nonsense about not being a part of the U.S. now. If you ever saw an example of why some people should be disarmed here it is. If you’ve ever seen an action that should be swiftly dealt with by armed forces this is it. What you will hear in this case is that they are justified because of (insert liberal insanity here). There will be no talk of gun control regarding these terrorists.

    1. avatar billy-bob says:

      “… nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.”

      1. avatar DaveL says:

        Actually, the homeless people stealing their food are pretty effective. These people are “autonomous” like any undergrad – if other people stop taking care of them they’ll crumble.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      If I were stuck behind those lines, I would be really upset that I’ve never gotten into night vision sights etc, but also really happy that I *DID* get into suppressors. Find a street light and start a mild popping sound, tomorrow there would be some mess to clean up, must have been upstanding citizens. Shall we stay another night?

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        Homeless people stole all their food, they want cops to investigate, asked govt for help with more food…

        1. avatar Ing says:

          “…please bring vegan meat substitutes and tofu.”

          You couldn’t make this shit up. Nobody would believe you.

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        AR-15 with a .22 cal insert and equipped with a suppressor…[starlight optional]….and you won’t even have to worry about a “popping sound”…trust me…

    3. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Wait until the gangs move in. Then they will beg for the police to return. Speed up the process by shutting off utilities and stopping garbage pickup.

      And meanwhile the Seattle mayor and staff were shocked into inaction.

    4. avatar Montana Actual says:

      And the crickets start chirping form the media…

      Armed protestors peacefully protest and clean up after themselves – media goes nuts.

      Armed communist soi bois show up in a gang controlled area submitted to them by the city – media “We don’t see anything wrong here”.

      Lets be real here: I give it another day or two before everyone of those soi bois is picked off, and hopefully at the hands of boojahideen.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        Where are the boogy bois when you need them?…..

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Ask washington? I dunno… 8 hours away but to be honest, I consider Seattle on par with California and it’s why I don’t live there? Also, pretty sure some “boog bois” are there, and there is a bit of a mix up as usual by the media. From reports, there are some bad apple but some places handing out food and water too? Either way, it won’t last, and the cause is asinine. I don’t agree that rushing in and using force is the best idea here, but also, this is what removing government gets you: A “warlord”. Anyways… if the boogs there think they are helping, they are doing the opposite. You don’t just boog and let some gangbanger take the throne… you boog until nobody is on a throne. That’s why I don’t think any boog boys are actually there.. it’s a bunch of airsoft no plated larpers. When the boojahideen shows up, you will know it. Seattle’s not really worth it IMHO, unless your intention is to control the heroin supply and alternative music.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          I agree, fuck Seattle… But the empowerment this will give them can put them in my fucking backyard tomorrow and shit WOULD get ugly from there….

        3. avatar Montana Actual says:

          You from WA? Man… sounds like you are the closest “boog boy” lol. Sorry, not funny. They might be empowered for another day or so… it’s a phase, and it won’t last. People will start to realize they are being led by a gang mentality and their safety bubbles will diminish, then they’ll go home and do laundry in their moms basement cuz their one set of clothes smells like a campfire.

        4. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Actually I am about 300 miles from the farthest point you can get AWAY from Seattle and still be in the Continental U.S…. and I’ll be keeping it that way… no I’m not a boog boy but I will shoot the 1st son-of-a-bitch that tries to fuck with me and mine.. Laws AND attitudes in FL are way different than in the progressive liberal strongholds in the North West…

  9. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    Well, aside from the obvious flaws in that idiots argument (there were lots) I’d like to address a side issue. The complaints against Chovin. What was it? Twenty? Let me tell you something. Being an LEO attracts complaints like flies to shit. I once had a citizen call my supervisor and complain that I was “too professional.” No kidding. It was a civil call that I didn’t resolve in the complainant’s favor. Chauvin had two letters of reprimand. What I haven’t seen is what for. I had a reprimand. For being late for work. The electricity had blinked during the night. Alarm clock was flashing when the PX rang. Lt. response to my explanation? “Buy a wind up alarm clock!” Do not misunderstand. From what I saw Chauvin was wrong. I never abused a citizen, but I had no problem using the force necessary. Of course, the suspect choose where that went.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Chauvin and Floydd may have had prior history together and both worked security at a bar. Chauvin was known to be a hothead and would reach for the pepper spray at the slightest provocation. The bar owner also said Chauvin seemed to have “issues” with darker skinned people.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        you grab the perp and muscle him outside…using pepper spray inside the club is never a good idea….

  10. avatar tdiinva says:

    I have been told that qualified immunity is a relatively new thing. The reason it is relatively new is that prior to the Warren Court decisions cops pretty much did what they wanted to do. There were no lawsuits against the police for misconduct and it was extremely rare for the police to be prosecuted for actual crimes. Eliminating qualified immunity means an end to proactive policing. It’s just first order thinking. Cops will be sued as a matter of course. Everybody knows that Michael Brown’s family received a payout despite the fact that it was a justified shooting, right?

    Were the four MPD officers involved in the “militarized?” They looked like regular cops to me. As far the us v them goes I have to again repeat that more young black men have been killed or wounded in Chicago alone than in both Iraq and Afghanistan combined. They work in a war zone so yes, it as like being a “peace keeping forces” it is us versus them. Anybody who has experience in the Balkans would understand this.

    The problem isn’t the method of policing, it’s that the police are people and people make mistakes, they pursue vendetta’s or they are just born bad. This will never change at least until we get to a properly programmed RoboCop.

    1. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      A lot of people are arguing for an end to qualified immunity. But I have another idea. What if we extended qualified immunity provisions to all citizens. When a cop shoots somebody he/she is given 48 hours to secure legal representation and get his story straight. Regular citizens are routinely questioned within minutes of having shot someone, immediately try to start their investigation. Police who are involved in shootings also have 180 day window for an investigation to be made and charges filed. After that, they walk. Private citizens, on the other hand, can have investigations put on hold becoming “cold cases” which are subject to further investigations and convictions decades later. Cops don’t have cold cases. Complains about implied immunity are predicated on inequality between police and citizen treatment. Giving citizens the same advantages that cops have would preserve qualified immunity.

      1. avatar Garrison Hall says:

        Yo, Mods . . . Sure wish you’d reinstate the edit function in your software.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      when cops only had revolvers…they were less likely to use up those six rounds…now “mag dumps” are pretty common…

  11. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

    “As for gun licensure, not only is that a direct infringement on the right to keep and bear arms, but there is no other enumerated civil right — speech, voting, religious freedom — that is subject to a government permission slip.”

    There’s at least one exception –

    Freedom of assembly – Invite 5,000 people to hear you make a speech on the mall in Washington, DC.

    See how fast they arrest you for not having a permit, a ‘permission slip’, by the Government…

    1. avatar Binder says:

      At that point you are effecting others around you. Your permit will never be denied (unless the city is asking foe a lawsuit), but the event will be disruptive to others and now allowing the city to prepare for your event is not the best ideal in the world. If anyone at anytime could do what you ask, how long with the right to assemble last? Kind of like right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      That example is not denying freedom of assembly, it is denying freedom of assembly *here*. When you’re arrested for assembling in your home, or in your church, that is a violation of your rights. BTW, you cannot invite 5,000 of your closest friends to assemble in my home, either, and that is not a violation of your rights.

  12. avatar Jim from LI says:

    I’m tired of hearing about Chauvin’s prior shootings and complaints against him without any context. It tells me nothing and proves less. Put a LEO in a dangerous neighborhood and maybe he has to fire his weapon. Yeah, and..? It’s not the old days where the gun was carried daily and only fired at the range. And it’s routine for a suspect to try to deflect his guilt by whining about the mean cop who arrested him. It’s time to open the records so we can see exactly whether the accusations have any foundation.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Truth. It’s every bit as irrelevant as George Floyd’s prior arrests and the fact that he had recently done illegal drugs. Fact is, those are ad hominem diversions that have no relevance to the 9 minutes during which one man held another man down by the neck while he died.

      But it does help people feel better about their own irrational, prejudged conclusions, so there is that.

  13. avatar W says:

    “Simply put, police are more likely to use lethal force when they believe lethal force might be used against them.”

    Does this argument spring from the George Floyd incident? If not, then Gebelhoff is an opportunist and the incident in Minneapolis is just being used.

  14. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    oppressive regimes always get less oppressive when you give them more power.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      You forgot “/sarc”

  15. avatar Tarzan says:

    And prosecutors that hide or conceal evidence have to go to jail. And any police can’t investigate themselves anymore. The old, we looked into this, and found we did nothing wrong. Or that our officers did nothing wrong. Stop making cops revenue agents too.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      Since you are probably not engaged in activities that could lead to asset forfiture I must assume that you are referring to traffic enforcement. I suggest you just obey traffic laws and you won’t be bothered. It seems to have worked for me. If you are worried that the police will be harassing POC there is a solution for that. Use remote sensing to ticket people then no one will face descrimination.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        I suggest that you do some research on the Black Asphalt Electronic Networking & Notification System.

        It’s designed by a private company specifically to maximize the chances of catching people with cash based on their financial records.

        Because, ya know, criminals ensure they have fully up-to-date financials and pay their taxes and shit. This totally doesn’t target the law abiding who prefer cash for whatever reason, and it’s totally targeting the big money which is why fully half of the busts related to the system are under $9000, because kingpins.

        It’s so crooked that states like Iowa and Kansas have banned it’s use. You know, deep blue states that love narcotics trafficking.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Catching people doing what? Speeding? Give me a break.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          Speeding = drugs? That’s the idea here.

          They target people based on financial records, follow them, and either wait for a traffic violation or just make one up. Then they shake the tree to see what loot falls out. Because that’s what these companies are teaching cops to do, teaching them this for a cut. Departments allow it because where it’s been done seizures of cash have exploded to more that 120% of the department’s budget. When the department splits the money with a federal agency or a company they’re essentially getting a budget boost of 60% or more.

          Desert Snow is a company that does this and brags about it. Desert Snow officers confiscated $427 million in cash from motorists in five years. They don’t brag about drugs because, well, that’s not their bag baby.

          Even the DEA is alarmed because this has resulted in a huge drop in drug busts and a shift to cash busts to pad department budgets. DEA wants to pop drug traffickers, not people engaged in legit business, and they HATE these programs.

          This is literally why Iowa and Kansas banned use of this system. Well, that and they were informed by federal prosecutors that it’s almost certainly both unconstitutional and flat-out illegal.

          Take a break all you want, this portion of policing is a scam regardless of what you think. One that, when challenged, often loses in court provided that the plaintiff has the resources to shoulder ensure of thousands in upfront court costs because the departments bury the case in unethical motions designed specifically to make it unaffordable.

          This was meant to go after big time traffickers, not motorists with a few grand in cash, numerous retired Chiefs have admitted that the original purpose was acceptable but that the programs were corrupted and that this was allowed by politicians because it was essentially a way to raise revenue without having to justify a tax hike to the public.

        3. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          They’ve confiscated the cash of people doing nothing wrong, like traveling to buy a car for cash, for example. It really is a bad scene…

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          Geoff:

          And it’s so much worse than just that.

          I mean, I could just hand my backpack or bag that I carry every day to tdiinva and make a call to 911 and his ass is going to jail. Toss a couple grand in the bag and he’ll find out real quick what being accused like this really feels like. Instant dealer status. What? You’re not? Tell it to the judge buddy.

          Some syringes, no Rx and a bit of cash? Whoa boy VA Code 54.1-3466 is where they’re gonna start that little shindig.

          And the funny thing? You could take out my stuff and load that bag full of bongs, scales, baggies etc and it would be totally legal. But actual medical supplies, not so much. And the cops will be counting the cash you’re not getting back.

        5. avatar tdiinva says:

          As a guy who just paid $36 large cash, well by check, for a my wife’s new car I ought be worried, eh?

          You sound the cypher on the internet who thinks NSA cares about them. As someone who occupied a billet which could always make me a POI intelligence and LE communities I can assure that they probably don’t GAF about you.

        6. avatar tdiinva says:

          Strych, your chances of setting up are essentially zero. I have had a little Camp Perry training. Don’t try this at home, I’m what you call a professional, while you are pudknocker on the internet.

        7. avatar strych9 says:

          No tdi, you’re not. You’re a guy who’s right most of the time when he speaks on things he knows about but has a penchant for speaking on topics he knows nothing about. This is one of them.

          And the entire point of what I said flew right-the-fuck over your head because you’ve got that interwebz anger issue that’s so common. Anyone says you’re wrong and *bazinga* you go straight to talking nonsense.

          And now, the cherry on top of it all, you want to get into a dick measuring contest about a check? Wow. Just fucking wow.

        8. avatar Ing says:

          tdi, you’re a smart guy…but you do talk yourself into some stupid positions sometimes.

        9. avatar tdiinva says:

          Well Strych, I will be happy to E-mail Dan a copy of retired ID and he can verify for you that I’m a professional. How about that?

        10. avatar strych9 says:

          Why would I give a shit what you do or don’t email to Dan, why in the hell would you think he’d care enough to forward it to me and what on the actual fuck does that have to do with what I said?

          You still seem to miss the point that if I handed you my bag in your state you’d be open to a variety of legal problems even though you’re doing nothing illegal. Those legal issues include forfeiture of any nice shit you have like cash, watch, car and even your phone. That’s the damned issue that you are steadfastly ignoring for some reason.

          There’s nothing illegal about having cash, even large amounts of it. It’s printed right on the fucking bills yet the police can use your possession of legal tender as a justification to relieve you of said legal tender and do so permanently without going to court to prove you did anything wrong.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Yeah, right. When I went through OTS in San Antonio, in 1969, the speed trap in Selma (TX, right outside the limits of San Antonio) was in full swing. A tiny town whose limits encompassed just one mile of I-35, they drew speeding fines equal to $8000 per citizen of Selma, every year. You came over the hill at 70, passed the 35 mph sign and saw the lights come on before your foot could reach the brake. You were escorted to the magistrate right now, and paid your fine before you were released. Literally tens of thousands of times per year, you can hang onto your snotty “just don’t speed”, but that shit happened, and may still happen, and it’s not a joke.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Your story tells me two things. You were speeding and none of BS revenue enhancement is new.

        2. avatar frank speak says:

          reminds me of Zanesville, Ohio….cop made you follow him to the magistrate…it was two in the morning and that place was packed!…a lot of revenue acquired that night….

      3. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        I ain’t getting in the middle of anything but strych9 is spot on.

        Tenn was really bad about it for awhile. Any of the interstates that have been termed drug corridors are ripe for civil asset forfeiture. Been going on for a long time and it’s wrong. Read some of the cases of people trying to get their own cash back. What a nightmare and made that way so the person will just let it go.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          AHHH yes, the good old I-40 corridor…..

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          70 through Ohio used to be that way too, like 10 years back particularly just West of Cbus. People said it of that road in Indiana too but I never witnessed or had issued there.

          Those highway boys sure did love a sports car with New Mexico tags though. Like flies to honey.

  16. avatar The Truth About Boomers says:

    If you can look at the events of 2020 and go “yep, we need more gun control” you’re either a sub 80 IQ individual or on somebody’s payroll. These people need to be roundly mocked.

  17. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    Using the “blind squirrel” theory the dumbass DOES have a point about all the surplus military gear the govt has given the cops over the years…. Many police departments, even some small town units, look like Antifa on steroids when they roll out in force with “murdered out” military vehicles, dressed in black with black body armor…

    1. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

      But the Police are our friends. You were just boasting about how they all ignored the Coronavirus orders in another post.

      Do tell, what color is the sky in your world?

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        You’ve obviously got me confused with the BS you spew… I don’t BOAST about shit… AND I’ve never made a comment in FAVOR of anyone ignoring any WuHu Flu orders… (I think the WuHu Flu was a lot of BS about nothing, but that’s my opinion)… Could be your dyslexia kicking up? or, just your usual comprehension issues… hard to tell with you…

  18. avatar strych9 says:

    I think it’s easily demonstrable that the problem isn’t guns but rather a myriad of other things that cops are asked to do. Things which are essentially impossible for them to ever get right.

    Drug laws, civil asset forfeiture, overly restrictive DUI rules… the list goes on and, on top of all of that, being treated as a revenue collection agency by many municipalities and counties while it seems, being denied quality applicants in some cases and constantly being told how every person not wearing a uniform is a potentially deadly threat to them.

    1. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

      Wasting your time with most of these fools. They prefer their oppression.

  19. avatar RGP says:

    You could improve it by getting rid of affirmative action based selection of employees.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      “Affirmative Action”, the very definition of “discrimination on the basis of race”. How does it still exist after 50-odd years?

      1. avatar Southern Cross says:

        Affirmative Action is only discrimination against white people, particularly males, so it is not racist.

      2. avatar Coffeemonster says:

        The original name was positive discrimination… Until they realized that sounded terrible

  20. avatar Hasaf says:

    I just finished The End of Policing by Alex S. Vitale. It is a central book in the police reform movement. While it calls for a significant number of legal reforms, it doesn’t address Gun Control at all.

    In fact, the book looks in the opposite direction. It is a call for removing laws and addressing the root cause of social ills, instead of relying on the police as a universal social panacea.

    It makes the case that more prohibition is the opposite of what is needed.

  21. avatar rosignol says:

    Simply put, police are more likely to use lethal force when they believe lethal force might be used against them.

    ..and that’s why the anti-lockdown protests turned into such horrific bloodbaths?

    Oh, wait. No, that’s not what happened. At all.

  22. avatar Grumpy 49 says:

    DEMOCRATs pushed Gun Control in the 1840’s when free Blacks in Northern States didn’t want to be to be shipped South to becomes Slaves. Those free Blacks would shot at the DEMOCRATs (aka Slave Catchers) that were trying to ship them to Southern Slave Owners.

    DEMOCRATs pushed Gun Control in the 1870’s because the newly free Slaves didn’t want to listen to the Democrat Voter Education Teams (aka the KKK). Those newly freed Slaves also didn’t like having their homes set on fire so there would be enough light to have a late night Voter Education class by KKK DEMOCRATs.

    The 1968 GUN CONTROL was a direct translation of the copy of the NAZI Gun laws that belonged to Senator Dodd Senior – who “wrote” the law. Took about 20 years through the FOIA courts to get the documents from the Army to prove that Senator Dodd requested a translation of his personal copy of the NAZI Gun Laws he received as part of the U.S. War Tribunal team at the end of WWII.

    Who is foolish enough to believe a DEMOCRAT??? Remember that the easiest way to tell if they are lying is that their lips are moving.

    1. avatar Texican says:

      Nowadays they’re lying even when their lips aren’t moving!

  23. avatar CZ Peasy says:

    Eliminate government employee unions. That is the primary mechanism incompetent and unqualified government agents keep their jobs.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      There were no police unions prior to the 1960s . There was also a heck of a lot more police misconduct. Find a new meme.

      1. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

        Wow, you just make that up? The Police Union movement started in full swing around 1919.

        The amount of misinformation in today’s comments is more than Chief Censor, Powerserge, Miner49er and Chris in KT could do collectively in a week.

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          going after the cops is a good way to neutralize them…as they are then inclined to just sit back and do nothing….

  24. avatar Jeff says:

    I don’t know the specifics, but is one complaint per year, and one shooting every ten years, and one reprimand every 10 year a bad record for a city cop?

    Probably not great, but on the surface it doesn’t sound terrible.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I’m not in that game so this is a guess, but my bet would be that for an actual street cop (as opposed to a pencil pushing politician wearing the uniform while working his way to the top), I’d bet that would be a pretty GOOD report card.

  25. avatar JOLJ says:

    IMHO, they want to remove constitutional policemen/policewoman to put in storms to troopers wearing Jackboots. That is how socialist get power over the constitutional voters.

  26. avatar Shire-man says:

    Because cops never shoot people holding wallets, phones, registration papers, cards or nothing at all.

    Next from the WhaaaaPo: “why gun control is necessary to save print news.”

  27. avatar Dude says:

    White celebrities are literally taking responsibility for being racists!

    I was just reading the comments, and every single one was mocking them. They just turned the comments off, of course. They always talk about wanting to have a conversation, but what they really want is to lecture you, and for you to shut up and take it.

    Notice the like to dislike ratio. 113 to 3k before it gets turned off.

    1. avatar UpInArms says:

      I wonder how many times they had to stand in front of a mirror and rehearse their lines before they got it just right.

      1. avatar Dude says:

        They’ve been waiting for this moment to shine. They’ve been out of the limelight too long during the lock-down. They’re so righteous, and shallow people will follow them just because they’re celebrities.

        It’s really nothing but a get out the vote campaign by using white guilt. Their plan for improving black lives is to vote for the exact same people they’ve been voting for since the mid 60’s. If anyone wants to know how that’s worked out for them, check out the decline of the black nuclear family since then. Don’t worry though, BLM has literally promised to smash the few remaining black nuclear families. They’ve also promised to lift up women and mothers. Who needs fathers?

        1. Whose votes will they get out by appealing to white guilt?

  28. avatar Debbie W. says:

    How about telling the washington compost to justify their racist and nazi based gun control agenda? That won’t happen because some people are all over the map and focused on crap that does nothing to turn the table on gun control zealots.
    Gun Control Zealots throw a bone and it never fails to see some people jump through hoops llike silly cirus animals.

  29. avatar MrMax says:

    Pretzel-like logic is being kind. I read the first two paragraphs you quoted from the article and I was amazed this guy could even put these two together. Doesn’t pass anyone’s BS filter.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      They’ve added something to the coffee pot. I can’t see how those issues are in any way related.

  30. avatar Keyword Spam says:

    I can think of a few ways to improve American law enforcement. For one, maybe try rooting out the neo-Nazis and Klansmen that have been signing up over the last couple decades. Second, take away all their military hardware–the MRAPs, the select-fire rifles, all of it. If we can’t have it, they can’t have it. Third, maybe teach law enforcement how to de-escalate a situation instead of the “Ask, Tell, Make” mentality they seem to have. One thing that shocked me was that they don’t have any kind of protocol for multiple officers responding to the same thing. In situations like this, only ONE officer should be speaking. This will prevent incidents like..shit, I can’t remember his name, but the cops were shouting multiple contradictory orders at him all at the same time, and when he couldn’t obey them all simultaneously they shot him.
    Maybe they can tighten up their hiring standards too, so we can weed out the psychopaths, thugs, and bullies that seem to be attracted to the job.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      I’ve heard the multiple commands is an Israeli technique to confuse the alleged perpetrator. Any question for clarification is responded with SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP!

      However, noncompliance to one of the often contradictory commands could result in the person being shot. It looks like a system designed for the wannabe Tacklebury to get a chance to shoot someone.

  31. avatar doesky2 says:

    “The inconvenient fact that Gebelhoff refuses to acknowledge is that America’s has been experiencing historically low violent crime rates at a time when the number of civilian-owned guns has never been higher.”

    Is this really true in recent years since Ferguson and the policing pullback in Leftist cities due to the “Ferguson effect”?

    I thought there has been a clear uptick in violent crime since Furgeson and the cops doing exactly what BLM demanded and that is to do no proactive preventative policing. Simply reactionary policing and putting up the yellow murder tape after the crime is done.

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      Certain cities are out of control but generally it’s better.

  32. avatar Darkman says:

    Just like you can’t expect Truth in Journalism without 1st Amendment Restrictions.

  33. avatar GS650G says:

    Read his column.
    Yeah, well no.
    What we need is up to us to decide. We don’t need to be told so.

  34. avatar chedolf says:

    America has been experiencing historically low violent crime rates at a time when the number of civilian-owned guns has never been higher.

    The violent crime rate is low because the incarceration rate is extraordinarily high. I would expect this to bother libertarians.

    1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      The cognitive dissonance in Libertarians will prevent them from recognizing this fact. Even though they will say the same thing exists in people that they disagree with.

      We are a safer society because we lock up criminals in such large numbers.

      People like to say an armed Society is a polite Society. If it was something we lived by then there would be fewer criminals. Because they would be afraid of getting shot by their victims. And people wouldn’t mouth off and insult each other so easily. Because they could be shot as well and often were a hundred and thirty years ago.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      It does bother me.

      And I guess I’d have to say that I *am* a libertarian (certainly not a big-L party member, or an ANCAPer, but it’s the closest label I can find for my politics).

      What also bothers me is that at about the same time as Clinton’s “get tough on crime” laws that kicked off the mass-incarceration era (irony: black people disproportionately imprisoned by a Democrat), the NICS background check system was established — and although I hate it and believe that it’s unconstitutional, I can’t help observing that both of those abhorrent things coincide very neatly with our 50% drop in violent crime.

      What if that really is the price of peace?

      I don’t know how anyone would prove causation; all I can do is note the correlation. I don’t like it, but it’s there.

      1. avatar Dude says:

        I’m sure you’ve seen plenty of articles on here with repeat offenders committing violent crime. It’s tough to do that when you’re locked up. Prison doesn’t reform people. It separates the dangerous folks from the law abiding folks.

      2. avatar strych9 says:

        ANCAPer? Not a word I’d have even thought to pick to describe you Ing. You’re way too smart and more detail oriented than that.

        1. avatar Ing says:

          😀 Well, those guys are morons. It’s not a hard bar to clear.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          I really try not to shit on people on the internet and whatnot but…. damn ANCAPer, certain LARPers, Progressives, gold bugs, Breitbart commenters and most Twitter users make it SOOOOOO tempting.

  35. avatar Montana Actual says:

    Wasn’t it Ronald Reagan who said the birth of fascism in America will be through liberalism? Or something like that?

    1. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

      He also said he never left the Democratic Party, it left him. Along with support for sporting purposes only and bans on assault weapons.

      Anything that man says I would take with a very large grain of salt.

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Oh yea I agree lol. Just ironic that comment was spot on from such a dingleberry.

  36. avatar Aaron Walker says:

    It’s all a [email protected]$!ing crock ! Now is the time to repeal all Anti-Weapons and Anti-self defense laws being imposed upon the lawful general public of the USA! This is an Unconstitutional Outrage! We are under attack by Enemy forces both foreign and domestic! Communists, Marxists, EU Globalists, and anarchists are in our streets attempting to dismantle our country! Along with the DNC/Deep State and THEIR Left-wing Media allies, THEY are attempting to replace OUR country with a 3rd world Banana 🍌 Republic !
    THEY will disarm YOU and leave you open to murder, rape, and torture! Any doubts, take a look at what’s been happening in South Africa with Caucasian, Dutch Boer Farmers…As THEIR land has been seized…S/A Dutch Boer families murder, raped, pillaged, and tortured in their own beds ! Don’t listen to these @$$-wholes! They are trying to burn the U.S. Constitution/Bill of Rights! You’ll will be left with nothing…In their dystopian future, Every time you walk out YOUR door (if you have one) YOU’LL roll the dice! Just take a good look around at all the rioting and takeovers. It’s ALL about Foreign politics…

  37. avatar Frank says:

    You can’t improve Medical Malpractice without stricter Healthcare Access Laws. Same thing…

  38. avatar possum says:

    The powers that be are picking the wrong time to try gunm confistcation. Even the “I hate gunms” are packing ..

  39. avatar WI Patriot says:

    “Washington Post”

    Need not read any further…

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      ….fun to post on their website, though….they’re just way too easy to trigger…always reaching for that ignore button…as if that would make you go away……

  40. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    I came to believe that the real difference between conservatives and Libertarians, Liberals, and the Left. Is the conservatives know people are flawed. And always will be. The three L’s on the other hand think humans can be made perfect.

    We have rules, laws, customs, that have kept the population in control. Many people don’t like them for various reasons. But the American Society has done very well for over 200 years now. Because we have had checks on individual behavior.
    And in turn you get to do what you want.

    This is not the USSR. Not communist China. Not Venezuela.
    Those countries are slave states. Even with the history of racist gun control, eventually all Americans became free people.

    And the only thing that keeps us free is individual gun ownership.
    The 1st amendment has become a distraction, of, and for, 7 dirty words, porn, and music that some people don’t like.

    But if you don’t have guns. Then it won’t be long before you don’t have the 1st amendment. And you won’t have your Liberty either. It now seems a certain part of Washington state is now starting to understand this.

    And large multi billion dollar companies can take your freedom as well. But that’s something the three L’s refuse to recognize.

  41. avatar Chris Morton says:

    So, the solution to police alternately murdering or abandoning you is them having all the guns.

    So then similarly, the solution to police racism is to deport me and all other Black people to Africa?

    Of course those have been Democrat “solutions” in the past…

  42. avatar Buck Brown says:

    And you can not enforce gun laws without the police, so what do you want? Stricter gun laws or defund the police?

  43. avatar burley says:

    I have an idea: this guy needs to STFU.

  44. avatar Jon Zmuda says:

    WTF??? high time to END the libtard mental disease. They’re SO fucking stupid as to demand this WHILE being protected by men/women WITH guns. 434 seats up this election. LETS RID THE USA OF THE BRAIN DEAD NARCISSISTIC ASS FUCK DEMORATS

  45. avatar BusyBeef says:

    DeMILITARIZE the police.
    They should be as well armed as we are.

    If they get machinesguns and APCs, so do we.

    If we have to limit our capacity to 10-rounds and no-evil features, they should have the same limitations. No carve out “GUNS FOR ME BUT NOT FOR THEE.” No LEO exemptions.

    This is the intent of the 2A.

  46. avatar Jester64 says:

    Self Serving Globalist drivel…

  47. avatar CAREY Smith says:

    This is the dumbest sh!t I have ever read. Without guns the police would have even more free reign to murder you at every street corner. Mass murder committed at the hands of the government would be the norm without the second amendment. You want police reform, arm every citizen and remove qualified immunity.

  48. avatar Fun Gunner says:

    A message that needs to be heard.

    https://youtu.be/efeVzpMtt1Q

  49. avatar Geoff says:

    It’s easier for a criminal to get a gun than a law abiding citizen, especially in Democrat controlled States.

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