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“European leaders scrambled Thursday to try and forge a diplomatic deal to end fighting in eastern Ukraine, in an apparent bid to head off U.S. consideration of lethal military aid for the Ukrainian government in its war against Russian-backed separatists,” foxnews.com reports. “At the same time, a bipartisan call in Congress for the U.S. to arm Ukraine was only growing, with lawmakers saying the military aid ‘is past due.'” Here’s a part of that article that caught TTAG reader RK’s eye . . .

Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., top Democrat on the armed services committee, said the “key here is to give the Ukrainians the ability to defend itself and to get back to a political solution.”

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., said the non-lethal aid the U.S. already is sending “is not enough when you are facing the Russian bear.”

RK notes that “the two Democratic Senators offering support for arming Ukrainians voted for 10-round limits on magazines for US citizens.” Yes, that is odd. Surely American citizens should have the same right – and ability – to own and defend themselves with non-restricted weapons as the Ukrainian people. Am I missing something?

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140 COMMENTS

  1. … ah, kind of, but I’m sure it’s a rhetorical question. The reason those two a*ses voted against Americans having the ability to defend themselves is because they well understand that they (the Rulers) may act like Putin one day… or at least keep that option open for themselves…

  2. “RK notes that “the two Democratic Senators offering support for arming Ukrainians voted for 10-round limits on magazines for US citizens.””

    That’s because democrats don’t consider violent criminals to be ‘the enemy’. They’re the unfortunate result of ‘social injustice’ and oppression.

    Russians, on the other hand, are easily identified as ‘the enemy’, so it’s “open season” on them.

    • Violent criminals ARE the Dims base of course they don’t want their base culled. I’m surprised these idiots aren’t demanding non-detachable magazines and a 1 round limit. Because we all know that you only need one round.

      • You’re joking of course! 🙂

        1/2 the scofflaws I know are card carrying conservative Reps.
        The sense of entitlement is present in spoiled people whether they are rich or poor, Rep or Dem. Anyone who thinks they deserve something without working for it is spoiled. Spoiled by the trust fund, the welfare state or the biggest cause, parents who bail their kids out.

    • Well, these are the same people who would agree that the Fort Hood shooting was “workplace violence”, as was the recent thing in France.

      Newspeak permeates the political landscape, I tell you.

  3. “Am I missing something?”

    What you are missing is that the political class in this country absolutely despises it’s citizens.

    • While your comment is true, that isn’t the explanation.

      Our betters see no hypocrisy at all because any firearm shipments will go the agents of the state of Ukraine. They always vote for arming agents of the state and disarming the peons.

  4. Ignoring the idiocy of the 10 round limit for Americans, heavily arming the Ukrainians against the Russians next to the Russian border, where the Russians could stage massive troop and equipment support is lunacy, in my opinion. A political solution seems to be the only way to resolve this, through sanctions and some form of increased autonomy for the eastern Ukraine Russian population.

    • “some form of increased autonomy for the eastern Ukraine Russian population.” – Would you likewise agree to an increased autonomy for Mexican population, say, in Texas?
      And the “sanctions” have been shown to be very effective against Iraq (pre-2003), Iran, North Korea, Cuba and all others that were forced to buy what they wanted through intermediaries and pay a bit more…

      • Except that eastern Ukraine was a part of Russia far more recently than Texas was a part of Mexico. (Like within living memory of most of the readers of this article.) Quite frankly, the modern borders of “Ukraine” are an artificial construct that has zero legitimacy. Kiev got away with a flat out land grab in the 90s and the people living on said land were, rightfully, more than a bit pissed when the corrupt plutocracy in Kiev ran the region into the ground. They tried to redress this by electing a leader who supported their position, but said leader was run out of town by a mob of Nazis and anarchists. (Strange bed fellows, yes, but still the case.)

        What possible obligations do those regions have to the central government when that government clearly does not represent them?

        • “… by a mob of Nazis and anarchists.” – seems like you’ve been affected by the Russian media. They have been very active inventing “Nazis”. Funny how the old KGB apparatus came back to life…
          As to who’s land this is, it’s a very complicated issue that is not for us to resolve. But resolving it with Russian tanks speaks volumes in itself. Of course, had the Ukrainians not pissed away their country through disarmament, giving away their nukes, keeping the civilians disarmed and selling anything and everything that could be lifted, they would not have had this problem. Likewise, if we had a president who was more concerned with leadership than a Muslim [brother] outreach, they may not have had this problem, either.

        • Moscow was founded long after Kyiv…

          The “land grab” of 1990, was merely what the Russians abandoned and left. There has never been a definitive border agreement between the Russkies and Ukraine, but the de facto border has always been accepted – until Putin’s puppets were dislodged anyway. Ukraine has always been the breadbasket of mother Russia, not to mention it has tons of oil and gas – just out of reach of Russian tech which is one of the main reasons Putin is so keen to keep his fingers in. He knows that with Western investment, Ukraine can out-produce Russia, supplying the EU, stripping him of leverage, and leaving his only nearby hard-currency customers being the Chinese. Russia is in deep feces because of the sanctions, but even more so because of the price of oil – which is how we collapsed them last time.

          Eastern Ukraine is kinda like DET – rustbelt industries, not a lot of economic future, not exactly a braintrust. Nothing would be happening there were it not for direct Russian running, supplying, and troops. Not to mention the propaganda of offering to pay bigger pensions. Just like Crimea, the only reason anyone indigenous supported the Russians is that they promised bigger handouts than Russian-looted Kyiv was able to pay. Which is truly funny, because Ukrainians always found Crimea to be like American find Miami – it’s sorta Ukraine, but everybody speaks Russian not Ukrainian, and has a Russian mentality. Even with that in mind, most Crimeans would love to go back to being a semi-autonomous Ukrainian zone.

          I have some ex-pat Ukrainian friends, so I get to see vid from the front lines almost daily. Just like A-stan, what hurts Putin with the public is growing numbers of Cargo 200. Sure he controls all media, sure he silences protestors. But eventually the wrong oligarch will get “bothered” that he has been devalued by a billion or two, and there will be silent public support for whatever “accident” befalls VVP.

        • I AM an expat Ukrainian and I think that the Ukrainian government is committing far worse atrocities than the president who they ran out of office. I also happen to be a Don Cossack who has family in the region and knows damn well that in 1990 that place was an industrial power house. An industrial power house that the government in Kiev spend more than two decades systematically looting.

        • But it is true, is it not, that the Kiev government that was doing the looting was a different government than is now in power, and was indeed strongly aligned with Russia? And that the Pro-Russian president who was run out and now lives in Moscow has a lengthy history of corruption?

        • An industrial powerhouse? So was Pittsburgh, rustbelt is the rustbelt regardless of nationality.

          The people that ‘spent 2 decades looting it’ were Russian puppets and their friends. The Ukrainians finally took it back despite the fact it’s Cleveland…

        • @Mark N.

          The last president was hardly an angel, but he was not in power anywhere near long enough. The Ukrainian government in Kiev has been raping the Don basin since the early 90s.

          @V16

          The power play in Kiev have gone back and forth more often in the last two decades than a pingpong ball. The reality is that the Russian regions of “Ukraine” should have split off decades ago.

        • Not all people who voted for Yanukovich are necessarily pro-Russian. He had broad support in those regions because he himself is from there, and so is his oligarchic clan (while the opposition had power base in other regions like Dnepropetrovsk). Having “your guy” in power means that he can redirect the money towards your region. A lot like pork in US federal politics, actually.

          But even if you assume that every single person who voted for Yanuk also supports LNR & DNR, that still leaves something along the lines of 25%-30% in those regions which didn’t vote for him. And those people, today, when they voice their opinion – end up on the rack in a basement.

        • When both Kiev and Moscow were founded, they were part of a single Eastern Slavic state that stretched from Novgorod to Kiev. There were no Russians or Ukrainians back then, just freshly unified Slavic tribes intermingling under the leadership of, and with, their recent conquerors and new rulers (of Norse extraction). The whole division into Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians came much later, when Kievan Rus fell apart in feudal inter-struggles, and some parts of it were swept by the Mongol invasion from the east (those would later become Russia), while others were taken over by the Grand Duchy of Lithuania the west (those would later become Ukraine and Belarus). It was only after that conquest that the heretofore single cultural and linguistic space began to slowly diverge, giving rise to separate languages and cultures.

          The border between these two, and later three parts, was never firm, and never really corresponded to any particularly strong separation on the ground. The languages, for example, were not sharply divided, but formed a dialect continuum from the Ukrainian extreme in Galich-Volynia, to northern Russian dialects of Novgorod, with a slow, gradual transition in between.

          GDL would later merge with Poland into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which would later crumble itself and be dismantled piece by piece over centuries by the neighboring countries, Russia among them. That was how the entirety of Ukraine eventually ended up in the Russian state, but the territories which are now Donetsk and Lugansk were not part of those acquisitions.

          At the time of Kievan Rus, this entire territory was settled by Polovtsy, a nomadic Turkic people that regularly raided Slavic lands around Kiev to the west. Because of that, it was referred to as “The Wild Fields”. Polovtsy were swept out by the Mongol invasion and were largely assimilated by the Horde, adopting its customs, and then they themselves were pushed out by Cossacks from the east and Russian settlers (mostly runaway serfs) from the north (today, Crimean Tatars are basically the remaining descendants of Polovtsy). It didn’t really have any particular national identity at that point, being more of a frontier where people went from all the adjacent lands running away from trouble or in a search of a better life, with the resulting mix of Russian, Ukrainian and Turkic (esp. Crimean Tatar) culture and language.

          So, really, in terms of ethnicity and culture, neither country has a solid claim on the territory.

    • The problem is that there’s no “peaceful solution”. The separatists are supported by Russia, but they’re not beholden to it, and their leaders realize that continued war is the only way they can be in power (and possibly also the only way they can be truly safe, inasmuch as they can be). So they aren’t particularly interested in a peace process. To remind, it was their advance that broke the last truce.

  5. It’s pretty EZ to support Ukraine over the big bad Russian bear. The dumbocrats got no skin in the game…and it’s not like they can’t run up the national debt to do it. I’m sure they see no hypocrisy either. BTW I see Russia getting much worse as the Asperger Syndrome Putin laughs at our joke-in -chief. Next step Armageddon…

    • You mean the “big Russian bear” that clearly has not provided these rebels with any significant support? For crying out loud, they are using Soviet era small arms and WWII era anti-tank rifles. You’d think Putin would cough up some better gear.

      • “… and WWII era anti-tank rifles.” – A BUK is a pretty effective system, as was recently demonstrated…

        • BUKs which are also standard issue to Ukrainian air defense forces. Russia shooting down an airliner makes no sense, a Ukrainian false flag operation is far more logical.

          None of the gear shown in possession of the separatists is unique to Russia. Don’t forget that numerous Ukrainian troops defected from the coup in Kiev and entire bases in the region were taken, equipment and all. If you look at the video in this post, you will clearly see them using a PTRD-41 which even Russia melted down for scrap decades ago. Do you really think that separatists “equipped” by Russia would be running around with obsolete museum relics? Do you honestly think that a government that overthrew a democratically elected president has any legitimacy?

          • As to the use of the BUK, US intelligence claimed that the missile was fired from the separatist-controlled territory. I wasn’t there, did not see it myself, but given all the conflicting reports, in this case, I tend to trust the Pentagon information more than Kremlin’s.

        • @alexander

          Because the Obama White House would never distort intelligence to take the heat off of one of his puppets?

          • “Because the Obama White House would never distort intelligence to take the heat off of one of his puppets?” — What makes you think that Ukraine is one of Osama’s puppets? He doesn’t give a crap about Ukraine (his “donation” to it was less than he spends on his Muslim brothers in a day!). Would they distort intelligence? Of course, but in this case the Pentagon is still more believable than the Kremlin.

        • @alexander

          I don’t believe either side. I just find it awfully convenient that the “rebels” would destroy any international support for their cause by targeting a group of third party civilians. The idea that an airliner at cruising altitude was mistaken for anything else is equally absurd. Thus, we are left with the most logical conclusion. If the rebels shooting down an airliner did not serve their cause, then they logically did not do it. That leaves only one other group in the region who could have done it.

          • “I don’t believe either side.” — I’m with you on that one. Of course, for the Ukrainian government forces to shoot down an airliner makes even less sense. So, as stupid as it may be, but the most likely explanation, in my mind, is that the rebels simply misidentified the aircraft, or didn’t bother to identify it at all.

      • Exactly, The BUK is definitely not WWII tech. Nor are the APCs, or any of the other materiel in-theatre provided by the Russkies. Eastern Ukrainians on their own would have done what they did before more Russian troops arrived in the early days – commandeer the local liquor store, then get hammered and pass out. Which was what actually happened until they brought in enough Russian troops who ‘ were on leave’. Of course, that does make the Russian military the coolest in the world, as you can go on leave anytime, and take a tank or a rocket launcher platform with you.

        pwrserge, look up video. It’s all over youtube. I see realtime feeds from skype and viber, I swear there are no Mosins to be found.

        • Bullshit. All that gear could have just as easily been captured from Ukrainian Army stockpiles when their local forces defected en-masse. Again, the lack of uniformity and presence of obsolete equipment completely disproves the “Russian supply” propaganda being pushed by Obama and his Nazi loving lickspittles in Kiev. Russia has more than sufficient heavy weapons in inventory to make sure that anybody they supported didn’t have to break out museum relics. Are individual Russians fighting there? Almost certainly. I would be too if my neighbors voted for a president who was illegally removed from office and then had armed troops sent after them when they objected. I am a Don Cossack who was born in Kiev in the very early 80s, I think the Ukrainian government has more or less pillaged the region and has surrendered any right to the territory when they overthrew a democratic election by force.

        • Holy crap. We have an honest-to-goodness KGB payroller here.

          NONE of those weapons could have come from Ukrainian Army stockpiles – there was no en masse desertion, let alone had Yanukovych not helped sell it all away. Christ, this is like watching Pravda TV.

          Yanukovych was removed illegally for his even more illegal looting of Kyiv and Ukraine. Us Americans kicked the Brits out the same way for the same thing. I think perhaps you need to return to Mother Russia. You don’t quite grasp the whole concept of overthrowing evil using whatever means necessary.

          Soooo, all those obvious Russian soldiers, in current Russian uniforms, with current Russian-issue equipment don’t actually exist, huh?

        • @16V

          Did you even watch the video? The current “president” of Ukraine was complaining about over 15,000 desertions.

      • And Putin can deny he has a hand in anything too. What’s your point? I also believe Putin has a grand design on the middle east behind his beady little eyes…as the last days play out. RIGHT NOW muslims are a much bigger threat…especially if Iran gets the bomb and wants to usher in their Mahdi.

        • My point is that we should demand that Ukraine withdraw combat troops from the region and allow the locals to determine what they want to do in free elections. (None of this “the entirety of Ukraine needs to vote to let them go” bullshit.)

          • “My point is that we should demand that Ukraine withdraw combat troops from the region and allow the locals to determine what they want to do in free elections.” — Should “we” have also demanded that Russia withdraw from Chechnya and the Army of the Potomac get the hell out of Virginia? Careful here, or Osama may not be able to travel anywhere outside of DC, NY, San Francisco and Chicago.

        • That’s right. When part of Texas or Utah wants to break away we should respect some retard-driven referendum.

          pwrserge is a Russian troll, watch his idiocy unfold in the threads below. A total commie…

        • Well, I just love the comment suggesting the US “demand” anything at all from anyone in the area. Osama has made this country a laughingstock, that would just be another giggle.

      • Russia itself is using “Soviet era small arms”. On the other hand, separatists have been spotted using e.g. AK-74M, which was adopted by Russia (but not Ukraine) in 1991. Ukraine still primarily uses AKS-74. The two are easily distinguishable by their stock (steel wireframe on AKS-74, black polymer with a groove on AK-74M).

        As for tanks, there are numerous videos from separatists themselves showcasing them using modern armor in numbers, including some tanks that are not used by Ukrainian army.

        The fact that “voentorg” is responsible for a large part of their supply is not even vigorously denied these days. I hang out in quite a few blogs that are written by people fighting on separatist side there themselves, or those directly supporting them, and they pretty much admit that they’re getting supplied by Russia.

        • Actually the AKS-74 is only issued to vehicle crews and paratroopers. Most of the Ukrainian military still uses the AK-74 which looks identical to the AK-74M when dolled up with modern polymer furniture, which the Ukrainian military is known to do. I personally saw Ukrainian border guards at Borispol international airport with polymer AK-74s back when I last visited my extended family in 2013.

  6. I love how American Christians support people who shell churches, but the whole justification seems to be they aren’t in favor of American exceptionalism and pro-Israel therefore they aren’t real Christians and deserve to be murdered.

  7. Ah yes… The “Russian supported” separatist who are fighting with Ukrainian small arms and WWII anti-tank rifles. (Check out the shot of the PTRD in the video, that thing is more than 70 years old.) You’d think that if Putin was footing the bill, he would cough up gear that does not belong in a museum.

    • I saw a photo of a Ukrainian infantry unit that was armed with old SKS rifles. They’re definitely scraping the bottom of the bucket for arms.

      • Possibly, but you would think that if the “rebels” had actual Russian support, they would not need to break out museum piece anti-tank rifles. The only vaguely modern weapon I saw in that video was an AGS-30 which was developed in 1995 and exported to the entire former Soviet Block.

        • “… you would think that if the “rebels” had actual Russian support,” – And thousands of well armed and supported “volunteers” without identifying insignia on their uniforms is not actual Russian support? Well, now that the Crimea has been annexed, Putin did acknowledged that they were in fact Russian troops. But it’s done deal, so “what difference does it make at this point”?

        • @alexander

          Oh please… The Crimea has had well established paramilitary separatist groups since the 90s. In any case, Kiev has no legitimate claims on any territory as their government was put in place by a coup. In that situation, the individual regions have every right to decide not to ben their knees to a government.

          Oh… BTW… I’m FROM KIEV. I moved to the US in 91, I am well aware of just what kind of bullshit the Ukrainian “government” has been up to over the past 25 years.

          • pwrserge, I do agree with you that the Ukrainian government (and everyone there) pissed away their country – corruption, stupidity, the list is long… No argument there. But regardless of the historical questions to whom whichever part belongs to (from Warsaw to well east of the Dniepr), one should expect that these issues should not be solved with tanks in the 21st Century (at least in the civilized part of the world). As to the “legitimacy” of any of those “democratically” elected governments, one only needs to consider not the voting process, but the vote counting process… Something that we are quickly learning in the USSA… As to the “right” of people to rule themselves, please explain this concept to the Confederate States or, more recently, to the Chechens.

        • pwrsege, They have everything from BUKs, T72s, 259 NONAs, Grads (which are WWII, just like the Ma Deuce is WWII – it works).

          Seriously man, just dig around on YT for a few minutes and you can find every current Russian weapon being deployed against the sovereign state of Ukraine by subversive agents of it’s former masters.

        • @V16

          Watch the video above smart one. There is a PTRD in center frame for several seconds clearly being used by the rebels. All of the equipment you mentioned could just as easily have come from local Ukrainian bases and defectors from the Nazis in Kiev.

        • So pwrserge, as an ex-pat you really believe that Maidan was just some CIA operation? Sure he should have been run out Constitutionally, but when you’re a traitor like that…

          That somehow Yanukovych was something other than a Putin puppet and someone who looted billions while defunding Ukraine’s military?

          I take it your family is connected to the Soviets, not actual citizens of Kyiv and Ukraine.

        • @V16

          I don’t care who started the maidan bullshit. The entire protest was a bunch of anarchists and nazis who lost an election and decided that they would rather riot than concede defeat. The Don basin and the Crimea had been Russian since the 1700s until they were handed over to Ukraine for administrative purposes in the 50s. Calling either region “Ukrainian” is a sick joke. As I said elsewhere, my family are Don Cossacks, we were hardly huge fans of the Soviets. (My Grandpa spent his entire life under suspicion as the son of an “enemy of the people”.)

          Right now, the Ukrainian government is committing far worse atrocities than Yanukovych ever did.

        • Yeah, Don Cossacks. Many of whom have fought in support of the Soviet since day one.

          Sure the Supreme Soviet killed about half of them, but that didn’t stop them from being deployed as Soviet units in WWII.

          Living in Kyiv since the 1700s makes your family interlopers, at most generous. Cossacks of any stripe aren’t considered Ukrainians, and by your viewpoints, rightly so.

    • pwrserge, you really should study how Russian propaganda machine works. There’s much to learn there.

      • I am well aware how the Russian propaganda machine works. Obama is doing a great job copying it.

        The reality is that the Don basin and Crimean secessions have been brewing long before Putin came to power. The regions were never Ukrainian to begin with and the fact that the Junta in Kiev threw out a president the overwhelming majority of both regions voted for was the last straw.

        Russia has a natural interest in helping their fellow russians (small r for racial group) exercise their human right to self-determination. Similar to the interest the US had in supporting the Texan war of Independence.

        • “Russia has a natural interest in helping their fellow russians (small r for racial group) exercise their human right to self-determination.” — Seriously??? Human rights? Pray tell us you’re joking!

        • @ Alexander
          (Note: Russian = nationality, russian=race)
          Not really. Russian and russian politics are complicated. What most people don’t realize is that modern post-soviet boundaries are based on the borders of Soviet Republics that had no real practical meaning. (Crimea, for example, was not part of “Ukraine” until the late Soviet period. Think 70s) In fact a very large portion of the population of “Ukraine” in 1990 didn’t even speak Ukrainian. I understand it, and can make myself understood, but even being raised in Kiev almost into my teens, it’s still a second language for me. In terms of proficiency, it’s actually my fourth language behind English, Russian, and Japanese. (In order of proficiency.)

          The Chechen wars were complicated by the fact that Chechnya was a majority russian region with a tiny non-russian muslim minority that demanded secession. That same minority wanted to establish an islamic state (under which most of the locals would have been, at best, second class citizens) and then proceeded to use terrorist tactics to attack civilian targets in Russia. The parallels between the Donbas war and Chechnya would hold more water if the Don separatists started bombing apartment building and shooting up schools in Kiev, but we both know that’s not the case.

          I’m not stupid enough to assign altruistic motives to any national government, but the local russians are far more so. In fact, Russian troops going AWOL with small arms is, sadly, not a new phenomenon. If Russia really wanted the regions, they could have easily rolled in one of the over a dozen armored divisions they have sitting on the border. Right now, Putin is in a complicated position. He’s not averse to claiming the territory (though he wanted Crimea far more than Donbas) and he can’t be seen as “abandoning” fellow russians. He also doesn’t want to start a major European war.

          The best solution would be for Ukraine to withdraw all troops and for international observers to oversee a local secession vote. However, Ukraine is sticking to the position that any such vote must include the full population of Ukraine. Even the most rabid anti-Russian has to admit that such a requirement is absurd.

  8. Maybe the air to Ukraine will be include magazines with 10 round limits?

    The parallels to 1939 are disturbingly clear. The real question is whether western democracies will allow Putin to turn Ukraine into the new Czechoslovakia.

    From Wikipedia:

    “The German occupation of Czechoslovakia (1938–1945) began with the Nazi annexation of Czechoslovakia’s northern and western border regions, known collectively as the Sudetenland, under terms outlined by the Munich Agreement. German leader Adolf Hitler’s pretext for this effort was the alleged privations suffered by the ethnic German population living in those regions. . . ”

    The eastern European nations have all but given up on American and western European support and have begun looking to their own defenses. There is serious doubt that, if push comes to shove, Americans or western Europeans will fight to defend small countries like Latvia or Lithuania. After seeing Obama backtrack on a US promise to put install missile defenses, Poland, too, has realized that it has to look to it’s own defenses. The result is that Poland and the Baltic states are creating their own military alliances. That they have to do this is shameful. As the world becomes a decidedly more dangerous place, we’re being led by a president who thinks like Neville Chamberlain. And to make matters worse, we’re moving toward a pre-WWII sized military.

    • Except for the part where Czechoslovakia did not recently run a democratically elected president out of power who was extremely popular in the “annexed” regions. The reality is that Ukraine is better off getting the hell out of regions where they are clearly not wanted. Prior to 1990 Donbas was one of the most productive industrial areas in the Soviet Union. That industrial area has been more or less pillaged and run into the ground by two and a half decades of corruption, mismanagement, and outright indifference from Kiev. The population there is, and always has been, majority Russian and once their representatives in the government were run out of town by an angry mob of ACTUAL NAZIS, they have zero legal or moral obligations to obey the puppet government set up in violation of the Ukrainian Constitution.

      • This is too easy. Been there, done that:

        Again, from Wikipedia:

        “Lebensraum . . . was an ideology proposing an aggressive expansion of Germany and the German people. Developed under German Empire, it became part of German goals during the First World War and was later adopted as an important component of Nazi ideology in Germany. The Nazis supported territorial expansionism to gain Lebensraum as being a law of nature for all healthy and vigorous peoples of superior races to displace people of inferior races; especially if the people of a superior race were facing overpopulation in their given territories.”

        • Please explain what the hell that has to do with a people’s legitimate grievance again an illegal coup in Kiev.

        • Yup, Running out the criminal who was looting the county’s coffers was done ‘illegally’. Whoop-dee-effen-do.

          Nobody cares about the backwater Cossacks who thought the corruption was okey-dokey. The civilized folks of Kyiv thought better.

        • You mean the same “civilized” folks in Kiev who are now using heavy ordinance against civilian population centers in response to a valid secession referendum? I’m sorry, could you refresh my memory as to when Yanukovych shelled the mob in Independence Square?

        • “A valid succession referendum”? Please share some of the drugs you Pravda trolls are issued, they are obviously amazing.

          Do tell how well that would go here in say, the USA? Seriously, you are in the wrong effen country. Go back to Russia.

        • When was the last time a lawfully elected president was run out of town without due process in the US? I’ll let you know how well your scenario goes when that happens.

        • The minute one of our Presidents lives like Yanukovych. I can guarantee it’ll be far more extreme.

          Besides, which President served 3 years for assault and robbery like Yanukovych?

          • “The minute one of our Presidents lives like Yanukovych. I can guarantee it’ll be far more extreme.” — Osama’s personal excesses, in actual dollars, far exceed even Yanukovych’s.

      • “…an angry mob of ACTUAL NAZIS.” – Please quote legitimate sources (not Wikipedia, please) for your statements. I’m getting a feeling that you’re playing Russian TV for us…

          • pwrserge, the NBC News report that you’ve referenced has a picture of a young man wearing a helmet with a swastika on it. Did you noticed that the helmet is not standard issue Ukrainian or Russian armed forces. In fact, this is a current German army helmet (also available at Sportman’s Guide). How did the swastika get on it? A good question, but a question, nevertheless. Making an assumption that it belongs to a real Ukrainian soldier is something that Brian Williams may do, but I’m not quite ready to. When faced with professional propaganda, be very careful in making assumptions. At the Maidan, the Russians had snipers there that were shooting at both sides. Alinsky also teaches the same methods in “Rules for Radicals.” Be very careful.