Rep. Steve Cohen (Dishonest-TN), recently proclaimed in a House Judiciary Committee meeting that defensive gun uses are a figment of ammosexuals’ fevered dreams. He said, “Show me a case, please…where a good man or woman with a gun protected and stopped the use of a weapon. That canard doesn’t occur. That just…dog won’t hunt.”
Rep. Cohen, we’d like you to meet a 77-year-old gentleman who has an inconveniently different story to tell. The retired firefighter was walking to his car in a Chicago parking garage on Friday when another man drove up, pointed a gun at him and demanded his valuables.
According to Fox 32 Chicago . . .
Instead of handing his things over, the elderly man pulled out a gun and shot the robber in the head and chest, police said. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Chance of recidivism: virtually nil. That’s quite an achievement in a city where the State’s Attorney thinks nothing of letting those involved in gang-related gun battles resulting in homicide walk free without charges.
But wait…what about the old man with the gun? Was he carrying legally? Had he jumped through all hoops and hurdles Illinois has put in place to make exercising the right to keep and bear arms difficult, time-consuming, and expensive?
Chicago Police said that the elderly man has a valid Firearms Owner Identification Card and a Concealed Carry License.
Heh. It’s a darned shame, but news like that absolutely ruins the narrative for civil rights deniers like Rep. Cohen and Moms Demand Action’s Karen-in-chief, Shannon Watts.
These are, after all, people who make their living refusing to deal with the reality of the regular defensive use of firearms by Americans. Instead they find it much more politically expedient — not to mention profitable — to simply claim it never happens.
Oh, and we’d also like to point out to New York Solicitor General Barbara Underwood that this particular attempted mugging and defensive response didn’t take place out in the woods somewhere, but rather in the heart of America’s third largest city.
For our part, we’re just glad the 77-year-old gentleman is OK.
Dems really hate when one of their own gets offed by a legal gun owner!! Shoots that narrative right to hell! (Pun intended)!
If the story wasn’t published by the WaPo, NYT or USA Today, if it wasn’t aired on CNN, MSNBC, ABC… then it never happened. People like Cohen only get their news fromsources.
Yep. Im afraid that’s true. The current definition of secret is, ” If it’s not on TV, on heavy rotation, it never happened”. That’s why people still believe lies like,” It’s a pandemic of the unvaccinated” and Trump is a Russian agent. Let’s go Brandon.
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Its a net loss of at least 5-6 votes at the next dem election (the dead only get to vote once).
And what if the old dude only had a FOID? Or nothing? A bunch of folk’s carry in Cook without the queens permission. Gun in the glove box for years. I hate Illinois…
I’ve heard from a former resident that retired Police and Fire are damn near handed a CCW at ther retirement party. Everyone else… not so much.
Heard the same…known quite a few Chicago cops. A law unto themselves. Always had a backup like a tiny Berreta.
Which was not traceable to them, so it could be dropped beside a corpse which is inconveniently unarmed.
While this scumbag will never commit another crime, his legacy will continue as he will still vote for generations to come! It’s the Chicago way.
“…his legacy will continue as he will still vote for generations to come! It’s the Chicago way.”
You beat me to it! 😉
Another one bites the dust! Hey Hey
I have a sneaking suspicion that Elie Mystal would not approve… but who really gives a rat’s ass?
Chance of recidivism: remains to be seen if he arises for the next election.
Good on the gentleman for the wholly appropriate DRT retort.
The antis have their narrative and they’re sticking to it. The facts be damned.
It just cost them Virginia and is likely to cost them big in the mid terms.
Require voter ID, purge old voter rolls, do away with all ballot harvesting, and mail in ballots except for highly vetted out of country military and the bedridden, and it won’t even be close. There’s a reason one party wants loose voting laws.
“Require voter ID,…”
That is *critical*, and the line of attack should be : “If it’s not unconstitutional to require an ID to buy a gun, it’s not unconstitutional to require an ID to vote…”
Related note is the chance of recidivism virtually nil because he can still be involved in voter fraud?
My bride and I were overseas military for ’86, ’88, and ’90 elections, found out around 2000 that our absentee ballots were never counted, along with military ballots from around the globe.
Having lived several years in a country with unisex bathrooms, I don’t much care who uses which, or whether the rapist wore a dress. I *DO* care that the administration/school board covered it up because it would look bad for their far-left agenda. My compliments to the victim’s Dad for not killing the assholes at that meeting.
OOpps. Belongs lower down following Uncommon Sense’s comment.
At this point, they don’t fully realize it yet, or think they can still pull it off.
It’s a bit like Obama’s first mid-terms, they were so sure ObamaCare would keep Obama’s ‘hope and change’ alive for bigger and better things, like gun control.
And we cut their nuts off so hard, he was never able to finish what he started, all the way through his second term.
The thing is, they believe their own bullshit, that’s how tight their ‘bubble’ is right now. Once the word gets out fully on what’s happening in the classrooms with that CRT crap, enraged parents will likely ensure Trump get elected again.
(And all the while, my demented troll will keep flinging his poo like a chimp in a zoo… 😉 )
Geoff is to being a real man as Joe BiDeN is to being a real president.
“Once the word gets out fully on what’s happening in the classrooms with that [Critikal Race Theory] crap …”
Don’t forget about the additional classroom garbage where boys–claiming to be girls–get full access to girls l0cker rooms and bathr00ms. (Coming soon to your school district–no joke.) That is going to seriously aggravate a LOT of parents.
(Apologies for the odd spelling/symbols: my first attempt at this comment with proper spelling garnered a “your comment is awaiting moderation” warning.)
“These are, after all, people who make their living refusing to deal with reality.”
Fixed it for you.
Perhaps democRat cohen will backup his rhetoric and call for removing all taxpayer funded armed secuity that he enjoys while passing gas in the TN House.
It was pure stupidity on his part. When a guy has a gun pointed at you and you try to draw yours he has all the advantage because all he has to do is pull the trigger before you can even bring your gun up to fire. He was lucky the bad guy obviously missed his first shot.
Might have been a toy, fake, obviously not in battery, or the old guy just said fuck it.
As usual you left something out to bias your comments, so here’s the rest of it that you would know if you like took an actual defensive shooting class and knew what you were talking about.
you don’t draw to the drop, unless you have no other choice and will probably get shot anyway if you do or don’t.
A bad guy has a gun on you then you can only assume they will use it and kill or injure you anyway even if you comply and give them what they want. Its stupid to think otherwise, except for you maybe. Some chance is better than no chance and even if you do get shot you may still be able to get the bad guy anyway and still live.
This guy made a good choice and its got nothing to do with the bad guy missing.
And what do you mean “He was lucky the bad guy obviously missed his first shot.” ?
The story source says “The robber pulled out a gun and demanded the elderly man’s stuff” and never mentions the bad guy firing a shot.
Just another case of you putting imaginary things into your posts that aren’t real, another case of your continual confirmation bias, you read into it what you wanted it to say to make your post seem justified and then wrote it that way. You do this stuff all the time and I’m not sure you know it.
The bad guy was in a car, drove up, pulled out his gun and demanded stuff. The good guy shot and hit the guy. story over, good guy is unharmed and wins by making a correct call.
Plus, at the Fox Chicago link in this article there are two more stores in the videos below the main story, a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun in the cell phone store. And below that a good guy with a gun stopped another bad guy with a gun but unfortunately both died but the bad guy was still stopped.
I’d also like to add this to expand a little on what happened;
The retired firefighter, our good guy with a gun, was inside his open garage which faces the alley between houses. Our bad guy pulled into the alley between houses and approached the man (he got out of the car and went to our good guy).
This means our good guy is basically trapped. He has a bad guy with a gun that can shoot him any way he goes and he is trapped by the walls of the garage, so he can not run away very well. This is a perfect situation when you would be forced to draw to the drop, you can only assume the bad guy is going to shoot you so you have no other choice if you want to have a chance.
Over 70% of defensive gun uses are drawing to the drop.
.40 cal Booger,
I encourage you to NOT respond to dacian. It is readily apparent that he/she/it does not provide constructive comments in good faith. Rather, he/she/it intentionally posts comments designed to get attention and/or antagonize everyone else.
Ya got some misconceptions going on there.
“It seems that many would not allow you to fool the bad guy, but perhaps a belly pouch would be good.”
That’s not what holsters are for, that’s not even what carrying concealed is for.
Basically; you want a holster that lets you access the firearm quickly and reliably each and every time you grab the gun, yet will hold the gun securely until you do draw it.
There are a lot of factors that go into selecting a “defensive” holster that’s right for you. Here are just a few things you may want to consider …
1. material – a lot go with kydex/polymer, but there is nothing wrong with leather either but leather is better for OWB than IWB although there are some leather holsters that are great for IWB. Remember, OWB does not mean you can not carry concealed but ya gotta dress around it to keep it concealed. Then there is what is called a “hybrid” holster in terms of materials, for example, a combination of leather and kydex/polymer. STAY AWAY FROM NYLON OR CLOTH HOLSTERS, PERIOD.
2. fit – I mean does it fit you, your body type and where you want to carry at. Too many people get holsters because its the latest thing and then complain its not comfortable. Try not to buy a holster just because a lot of people on the internet rave about it. Do your homework.
3. retention – you will see a bunch of holsters advertised with their retention, and people talk about it. Here’s the clue to get the correct retention – get the retention that works for your gun and your access and how you want to draw the gun yet keeps the gun secure and that’s the retention for you.
4. Tactical or traditional or hybird – do you want a holster that’s designed for a tactical use or a more traditional holster type or one that has features of both tactical and traditional? Tactical type holsters generally do not have some of the features of traditional holsters like thumb breaks, and are made for quick access without having to do anything else to draw the weapon and generally rely on some type of “gripping” arrangement for retention and are molded for the gun type tightly enough so that the molding in a way sort of aids the retention and are usually more rigid than traditional holsters in certain areas. Generally, traditional holsters tend to basically be more of “pockets” the gun rests in and have retention like a thumb break or some type of button you press to release the retention – some are molded but the molding is not as close as that of a true tactical holster and the material is the same rigidity all the way through. Hybrid holsters (not in terms of materiel) have features of traditional and tactical – about 90% of the holsters you will see advertised are of the hybrid type, there is nothing wrong with a hybrid type.
5. Quality – yep, quality counts especially in that eye blink moment in time when you need that weapon. There are a lot of gimmicks out there for holsters. Are there parts on the holster that can fail because they are of a cheaper material or will let the weapon shift under stress and lots of movement thus altering how you are able to grip the gun which may be different from how you practice and rely on?
6. cant and grip. Oh yeah, people forget that these go hand in hand and work together. For quick effective engagement with first shot on target your grip on the gun needs to be your shooting grip instantly when you put your hand on the gun. If you need to adjust your grip in any way like, for example, tension and position, when you draw the weapon and/or as you present the gun then that holster is not right for your defense needs. Your holster needs to be you, not what is for the next guy or what the manufacture wants to give you. You would be surprised at how quickly things happen in gun defense use, you want your first shot and every shot to be in the bad guy and you have one chance to do that for each shot and that one chance happens in an almost eye blink moment in time if your grip is not correct right out of the holster you are wasting time trying to re-adjust and that time is very valuable and will be the most valuable time of any that ever existed in that moment so do not waste it.
7. Cost – yep, you can spend a lot of money finding a holster that works for you. A lot of people have a “holster graveyard” in boxes of holsters they have bought over time that did not work out for them. Then, there are people who buy a holster and its perfect for them right out of the package and they use it for many years. Your need to find the balance for your needs between form, fit, function, material, suitability, reliability, and quality – all of those interact in holster selection. A holster that costs, for example, $40.00 may be better for you than a holster that costs $100.00 – yes, there are $40.00 holsters out there that are a lot better than a holster that costs $100.00 or more from a big name manufacturer, it depends on what right for you.
8. carry type – oh yeah, you wanna do IWB, OWB, AIWB, shoulder, cross draw, positioned at 4 – 5 o’clock or 3 o’clock, belly band? yep, you need a holster that fits the way you want to carry. But do not forget that sometimes you might want to switch it up so a second holster for that should be kept in mind.
9. dress for it. Yep, this is also a selection criteria that people seem to ignore. People start carrying concealed and then try to make the holster fit their wardrobe, and sometimes for some modes of dress it works out (for example, baggy T-shirts in the summer). Some people get different holsters for different modes of dress, for example, might belly band while dressed for jogging. If you put a coat and tie on for an event and are carrying that clothing may be not as suited for IWB carry. There are all sorts of factors to consider in terms of dress, some people just give up and either dress more “tactical” types of clothing so the clothing is more loose in certain parts or do something like really loose clothing etc… ok, lets talk about “printing” which is basically the outline of the gun is visible through the outer garment usually because the garment is too tight. Now lets talk about not-printing – there actually is no such thing, at some point either ’cause movement or something else there will be a point where you print. Now lets talk about the “deep concealment” idea that has been pushed so much, its BS because unless you are undercover for some reason like for example, a law enforcement assignment, there simply is not real need for it 99.999999999% of the time. Yeah, people are gonna say “but but but this-that-or-other…” but if you are legally carrying concealed, and can dress properly for the concealment, deep concealment is a wasted and useless effort. If you go in a store and are printing a little, guess what… its none of their business whats under your shirt. So dress for the concealment to conceal as much as you can and if you happen to print a little sometimes don’t get upset about it. This may mean a change in wardrobe for at least some items, like for example, a “stretch” waste band on jeans is a whole lot more comfortable for IWB and a looser fit in the next size up in T-shirts might be better than that T-shirt that’s pushing the maximum material stretch limit over your belly or muscles.
These are just a few things. Get the holster that is right for you. Some gun stores may let you try some holsters on, we have a place like that here. I finally had to get custom made holsters to fit for my use for EDC, it costs a pretty penny to get a holster manufacturer to customize one of their designs with a modified mold and retention and cant adjust’ability and height etc… but several of us going in on it helped lower the cost a little but still a pretty penny – the regular design holster they sell costs ~ $60.00 and the customized was over $300.00 but it was necessary.
10. comfort, this is sort of self explanatory.
Element of surprise is nice to have but you don’t care about surprising the bad guy actually, this is not halloween or christmas or a party we are talking about here. You care about being able to engage the bad guy as quickly and efficiently as possible. You care about putting rounds in the bad guy. You care about staying alive or keeping someone else alive and uninjured if possible, and safe from threats. You care about stopping the threat – the surprise is going to take of its self when the bad guy realizes they can be stopped or are stopped so you don’t need to worry about it. All of this begins with the weapon draw, make sure its correct when it comes out of the holster and that begins with the holster.
Oh, and take a gun defense class if you can.
Boy, did THAT post ever get lost!
.40 cal Booger,
Responding to your point about self-defense when an attacker “has the drop on you” (is already pointing a firearm at you), there are two compelling reasons to attempt to draw and fire on your attacker:
First reason–something like 43% of attackers’ firearms are inoperative due to multiple causes.
Second reason–something like 81% of gunshot wounds are non-fatal.
Thus, even if an attacker “has the drop on you”, your survival rate will be about 89% on average if you attempt to draw and fire on your attacker. And that is if you are totally standing still while trying to draw and shoot. If you start moving sideways rapidly while drawing and shooting, your survival odds increase incrementally again. (An attacker–who will often have no training–will struggle to hit a moving target.)
Finally, you may be able to improve your survival odds incrementally yet again if you employ additional tactics such as tossing valuables off to your attacker’s side which will almost always draw your attacker’s attention away and enable you to draw/shoot and/or move to cover.
Yes. Aware of that. Didn’t want to confuse dacian any further. And assuming they will shoot u anyway, which u should always do , is the ultimate reason that u take the chance.
to Booger Brain
quote————Thus, even if an attacker “has the drop on you”, your survival rate will be about 89% on average———–quote
Again and again Booger Brain spreads his wild comments and rectum gas all over the internet. Again here is real Science not you and your rectum gas.
In other words there is no way in hell you have some wild 89% chance of survival. That Booger Brain is more of your bullshit.
Trying to reject science makes a fool of you every time you try and do it Booger Brain.
Dacian, the Du*ce, ROFLAMOBT! You claim the NYT as a “source” on self defense? Please tell us that was a joke?
I repeat, what you know about firearms could not cover the bottom of a thimble. You still haven’t answered my question: What is the firing sequence of a bullet?
It seems to me that it is likely that the bad guy had so often pointed his gun at people to rob them and gotten away with it that he expected the senior citizen to obey him just because he didn’t expect any resistance. When the senior went for his firearm, the bad guy likely thought he was fishing in his pockets for his wallet. Surprise! That wasn’t a wallet, it was a gun. Boom! The bad guy didn’t see it coming.
Also, I’m waiting for my CCW application to be approved. I’ve got perhaps as long as 30 days to wait. I’m using this time to research the kinds of holsters to use. It seems that many would not allow you to fool the bad guy, but perhaps a belly pouch would be good. When the bad guy demands your stuff, you pretend you’re getting your wallet out, but instead, you’re wrapping your hand around the pistol grip. You don’t even have to pull the gun out if you’re close enough. Just shoot right through the pouch. I’ve practiced shooting close targets without sighting through the gun sites and have discovered that I can hit the target without any sighting. Muscle memory allows me to just point and discharge the weapon. It’s very satisfying to learn this tactic. It’s almost like gunslingers of the Old West hitting their targets without even trying. Try it sometime and surprise yourself.
Congratulations on “getting all of your ducks in a row” to carry a self-defense firearm on your person!
I like your way of thinking of firing directly from inside of your clothing. If you plan on this strategy and your self-defense firearm is a semi-auto pistol, keep in mind that you will probably only be able to shoot once. (Your clothing will interfere with your pistol’s slide moving backward/forward and will fail to load a second cartridge or fail to go completely forward “into battery” and be unable to shoot.)
If you plan to carry a small revolver, then you can expect to typically be able to fire multiple times from inside of clothing since clothing usually does not interfere with your revolver’s cylinder rotating.
Wumingren, I have been carrying all of my adult life as a law enforcement officer. I recommend a holster on your “strong side” on you hip just in front of your rear trouser pocket. Leather is good; so is kordex. Myself, I prefer leather. As to the gun, you buy? That is a personal preference. I strongly recommend that you by nothing smaller than a .38 spc (revolver) or a 9mm (auto). Personally, I carry a full size.40S&W cal. and have no problem concealing it even in the summer months. I don’t recommend you carry a pocket rocket or in your pocket.
Y’all took the words right out of my mouth! I was about to post the same thing. Great minds think alike.
to Walter Jed Clampett of the Beverly Hillbillies
Tell us, “gun expert” who did this so called 1984 “study”? Again, with the nice try at anti-gun propaganda.———–quote
Here it is again for about the 8th time Moron
to Booger Brain
quote————-. And below that a good guy with a gun stopped another bad guy with a gun but unfortunately both died but the bad guy was still stopped———–quote
Booger Brain you never cease to prove what a warped person you are. Here you are crowing about a guy that would probably still be alive if he had not tried to shoot it out with the robber. Once again the 1984 study proves what was true then is still very true today. Remember Booger Brain that was the scientific study you rejected with a wave of the hand. It does not surprise me fools like you reject scientific studies on global warming, the covid pandemic and any other scientific study that does not agree with your radical nut case right wing views.
Dacian, the Du*ce,
Tell us, “gun expert” who did this so called 1984 “study”? Again, with the nice try at anti-gun propaganda.
Dacian, the DUN*E Bad news for you. The guy who took defensive action is very much alive and kicking. Much to your chagrin, I’m sure.
To Walter Welterweight
quote———–The guy who took defensive action is very much alive and kicking. Much to your chagrin, I’m sure.——quote
Have someone with someone reading comprehension read the entire article to you Dunderhead. The man I spoke of did not. survive as stated in the Chicago Fox link.
Dacian, the dimwit, seems I did read the entire article and it presents no facts only your socialist propaganda. And the guy who took action is still very much alive. But your brain seems to have a dead spot?
I guess that is due to your education being so sorely neglected.
DACIAN, the D*NCE, Again, you are showing your lack of knowledge of guns, gun fights and a host of other subjects.
If you are confronted with a man with a gun, he is expecting aquencense. (I’m so sorry to have used such a big word. If you don’t know what it means, I suggest you look it up.) There are many tactics a good guy with a gun may use to distract and gain the upper hand over the bad guy. But then again, you fancy yourself as a “gun expert”, don’t you? I’m not going to go into the tactics one might use as you would probably tell one of your criminal buddies.
to Walter Jed Clampett of the Beverly Hillbillies
Massad Ayoob one of the most respected self-defense experts who used to appear on cable TV made a fool of you and your wild statements. He often time went over scenarios like you described and his advice is at odds with your right wing fantasy ranting’s. They are fine for Rambo movies but bear no relation to reality.
Dacian the D*nce, nice try but Massad Ayoob is a strong proponent of SELF defense and firearms. He would without a doubt tell you that if the opening occurs take it as you might not get to survive the encounter otherwise. The fools my Socialist counterpart is YOU. AGain, I repeat the question that I have posed now for the forth time, What is the sequence of the discharge of a bullet? You still claim to be an “gun expert”?
What are you, racist? You don’t like hillbillies? Or you just don’t like white people? I hear it’s fashionable to hate on whitey these days. That’s easy to do from your privileged white neighborhood, isn’t it?
dacien_reformed Dacian the Du*ce doesn’t know what he is talking about still. he just hates people who don’t kowtow to his socialist philosophy.
With him, it’s all about control of the people through intimidation and buffoonery.
Dacian the Dun*e, You use a study done by the University of Chicago, a known hot bed of people with a Leftist-Socialist slant on everything they publish echoed by the NYT as your source? ROFALMO! Your wonderful article does not present any of the facts that back up this “theory” of the University. It does not tell us where the study was conducted. It is very lean on facts and long on being long winded. But those are the kind of “studies” you just adore.
quote————– I repeat the question that I have posed now for the forth time, What is the sequence of the discharge of a bullet? You still claim to be an “gun expert”?———–quote
You are a Moron you have never once posted a critique on the development or the use of firearms. I have many times which proves you have not because you are unqualified to give one.
dacian, the *unce, Seems you love to prove me correct. You don’t know anything about firearms except your Socialist propaganda. You could not qualify for kindergarten with someone cheating for you on the entrance exam.
Care to try again? What is the sequence of the discharge of a bullet?
I won’t hold my breath waiting for your answer. I have more quals in firearms than you have hair on your head.
The relevant question is; What would a pencil necked water head know about self defense? Except what he learned getting his ass kicked three ways from Sunday on the playground everyday.
To the Flag Waver
Now we have our forum Moron pretending he knows something. Your former posts proved what a fallacy your former rants were.
Dacian, the Du*ce, tell us oh “gun expert”, what the sequence of the firing of a bullet? Here is another question: tell us all you know about “self defense”. We have a few spare seconds.
If you do not like being here in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, we will very clad to set up a “Go-Fund-Me” Account for you to pay fo a ticket to the country of your choice, providing you promise not to come back the the USA
To Walter Jed Clampett of the Beverly Hillbillies
We need to deport Nazi’s like you which are in the minority. Your Brethren Nazi’s were turned into law enforcement by their own relatives when they tried to overthrow the U.S. Government which shows you are in the minority.
Dacian, the Dun*e, I am sure you would love to have me deported. the only problem is that I’m a PATRIOT and DEFENDER OF THE CONSTITUTION, while you are a traitor and puppet of your Socialist masters.
Seems your Jan 6th scenario is going down the tube just like the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse. No, Socialist, it’s you socialists who are in the minority. Apparently you forgot how your Socialist buddies were soundly defeated at the polls Nov 2. Just wait for Election Day 2022 when your Socialist monkeys get tossed out of Congress and the Senate.
You poor fool – the old man walked away, the robber didn’t. That’s a story with a happy ending any way you look at it. And, it’s a story that puts the lie to your liberal narrative. Remember, most criminals are only about as smart as you are.
Rep. Cohen has some nice teeth.
In that “I’m into making macabre jewelry” sort of way.
More like “I’m into making macabre jewelry with human children teeth and bone”
Steve Cohen? Seriously? Cohen is one of the most reliably idiotic members of Congress, and this is not just a rhetorical comment. His actions are borderline laughable – he once brought a plastic chicken onto the floor to goad Republicans into voting. Unfortunately, every now and then, there is that absolutely dead news day when there is simply nothing else to report – and Cohen comes to the rescue. “You are here” signs are printed for people like Cohen.
Typical democrap logic. What does the the fbi say about people using guns defensively? Like 600,000 times to over 1.5 million times a year! He’s such a socialistic moron.