People in the firearms community are passionate. Anti-civil rights extremists love to paint the NRA as an all-powerful lobbying boogeyman, but in reality, their donations are chump change compared other interest groups. The power of the NRA has always been in the people…its membership of millions. Gun owners are engaged and often are single-issue voters.
That passion is great, but it can also result in some negative effects on gun culture. Some of these negative effects started to crop up as soon as the unconstitutional, unreasonable, illogical, and downright silly brace rule was announced by the ATF.
That negative effect is infighting. As soon as the ATF announced the possibility of free tax stamps, it became a target. Lines were drawn between those who celebrated the chance to stamp 50 lowers for free and those who hold a hard line against any kind of compliance.
The memes are flying and angry social media posts are being tossed back and forth, and honestly, I can see both sides of the argument. I don’t like compliance either, but I’ve also had a few firearms I’ve wanted to stamp anyway, so should I take advantage of the opportunity to do it for free?
The Brace Rule – How To Lose the Fight
The problem with the infighting is we expend so much energy going at each other that we ignore the actual gun-grabbers and ATF doing their work. For every 50-comment back and forth argument on Instagram or Twitter, you could have sent…how many letters to your state and federal representatives?
Gun owners putting in a ton of effort fighting with each other does nothing to advance our main goal of defeating ATF’s overreach.
I’ts just an educated guess, but the folks who are taking advantage of the free stamp offer likely aren’t supporting the ATF’s rule. They’re just making the best of a bad situation. There is also the argument that if we actually register anywhere from three to 40 million braced pistols, they could then be considered in common use…but I’m no legal scholar.
On the flip side, the hard-line no compliance side has a great point. Mass non-compliance by somewhere between three and 40 million people would create a massive issue for the ATF and future rulemaking. At the same time, there are folks who live in states that prohibit short-barreled rifles outright. They have no option but to resist or destroy, turn in, or de-brace their firearms.
While both sides have valid points, any time we waste fighting each other is still time wasted. I’m betting the gun community’s descent into infighting over the brace rule has taken some of the steam out of the fight against the ATF and the Biden administration.
How To Win
What I propose is simple. Stop. Let people make their own decisions. Instead of banging out a hundred different comments in a social media argument, write a letter to your Congresscritter, to your governor, to every elected official you can think of. There are plenty of people who own braced pistols that aren’t part of the larger “gun community” who likely have no idea what’s happening. Spend your time and energy informing them instead of screeching at one another.
Encourage friends and family to write their representatives, too. Educate, advocate, and inform instead of fighting. Remember…emails are great, but so are snail mail paper letters, phone calls, and constant activism. Be the squeaky wheel in your rep’s ear opposing the ATF’s draconian, unconstitutional brace rule.
You might be part of the group that thinks braced pistols are stupid all the way around. You’re entitled to that opinion, and I respect it. However, don’t see this as a fight to preserve braces. See it as a fight against the ATF’s overreach and the Biden administration’s attempt to strangle your Second Amendment rights. I don’t ever plan to own a .50 BMG rifle, but I’ll fight tooth and nail to preserve my right to do so. If we won’t fight for simple AR-15 parts what else will we give up?
The brace rule is well worth fighting against. It’s worth organizing and it’s worth resisting. (It’s also worth contributing to the gun rights orgs that are fighting this out in the courts.) Let’s not fall apart due to infighting. Let’s not lose this fight to ourselves. We have an opportunity to turn the tide here, to say no, and to stop this example of overreach by the federal government. Take it and run with it.
If one actually believes that the tax stamp fee will be waved i have beachfront properties in Arizona to sell you. As far as in fighting you speak as if one can’t offer criticism to other gun owners while going against a rogue agency. That sort of binary non nuanced thinking is why we have to government we have today. So stop speaking as if we can only do one or the other. Complying our way out of tyranny isn’t the way to get out from under it.
Exactly this. If the NFA requires an item to be subject to tax (let’s just assume for a moment that the AFT’s pistol brace rule making them SBRs is correct, even though it’s not, but let’s go with it for a moment), then that tax must be paid. The AFT cannot waive the tax, as it lacks the authority to override Congressional legislation (yes, the irony is there, but stay with me). The AFT will later change its stance – as it’s already done a few times on different topics – and declare the tax due and payable. And you’ll be on the hook because you registered your item(s) as SBRs.
Travis Pike is free to do what he wishes, but I wonder if he remembers that an NFA registered item is subject to increased scrutiny and federal restrictions, such as asking mommy-may-I permission to take that item across state lines.
Plus…don’t forget the AFT’s 88-day rule, confirmed by an AFT supervisor at the recent SHOT show. This whole thing is a trap for those who legally purchased braces and decide to submit for registration.
In a round about way the author wants to show everyone the benefits of using a turd for fertilizer.
Once again and I do not give a f if it has been seen before…Until history illiterate Gun Owners can tell their bigoted pals to go pound sand and define Gun Control according to its history confirmed roots in racism and genocide expect to see Gun Control consume the 2A bit by bit.
There’s a reason so called defenders of the 2A won’t put the History of Gun Control under the spotlight every time Gun Control pops its head up. And that reason is the never ending going tit for tat with Gun Control pads their pockets.
Lots of comments below…plenty of infighting. So…back to caliber wars? Calling each other names? Sounds fun; count me in.
Humans gonna human.
i think the real issue people are missing is the rule making an already owed item illegal, retroactively. That is unconstitutional outright. They should have grandfathered in already owned braces, in their already blatant infringement. This will set a precedent that will have future consequences.
“i think the real issue people are missing is the rule making an already owed item illegal, retroactively. That is unconstitutional outright….This will set a precedent that will have future consequences.”
Not at all. The regulation/rule does not make it illegal to have owned pistol braces in 2022, but after the date of effectiveness of the regulation/rule. A retroactive rule would have made any owner subject to arrest for once owning, then selling, a pistol brace in 2022. That person, today no longer in possession, is not subject to law enforcement action.
Those who possess now-designated contraband, and do not successfully register their SBRs, can be arrested for violating the regulation/law after the effective date. (but not before). In a more mundane example, “right-turn-on-red light” was legal for decades, but the state legislature passed a law, taking effect tomorrow, making “right-turn-on-red light” illegal. Such a situation is not making “no-right-turn-on-red light” retroactive.
“Grandfathering” is not a legal requirement, but a convenience of government, applied as it benefits government.
I’m still weighing whether or not to register mine. I have assembled all documentation necessary in preparation to do so but have not yet filed. I did create an account on the ATF Form 1 site and there is a specific option to eFile a Form 1 for the braced pistols in response to the recent ATF ruling and it DOES say payment of the $200 is not required. Also, there is no payment portal option on the registration either. Just FYI.
As far as writing members of congress you might as well be pissin in the wind they don’t care. Ask yourself this why are House Republicans introducing a bill to eliminate the NFA now and not when the GOP had the white house and a slight majority over both houses of congress? Because the GOP only cares about 2A when they need to be reelected and Dems care less than they do. Writing members of congress is a waste of time theres no political solution here. No matter how much you want there to be.
You are WRONG. Your Rep a demtard?
Wonderful response just telling me im wrong you must be an expert debater. NOT! Go be a clown somewhere else.
“As far as writing members of congress you might as well be pissin in the wind they don’t care.”
I’ll second neiowa in saying that you’re wrong. I have seen a change in law enforcement practices (late night roadblock profiling nonsense) after a single letter to a state representative. On the federal level, it’s going to take a lot more than a single letter, but they do make a difference. Any congress critter who gets a million letters about an issue is going to take notice. He knows that for every letter he got, there are ten or a hundred other voters who are just as passionate.
If you’re literate, write your congress creature.
My congresscritters are ALL Leftard Dims. Sooo…do your thing. It makes NO difference in Crook county,ILLANNOY🙄
no former water walker write your reps its not like people haven’t already been doing that! The sort of people who believes writing your representatives helps anything probably believes Biden got 81 million votes in 2020. Frickin delusional clowns….
Now here’s where I know you have no real response to what I stated you have to bring up outliers to have something resembling a response to what I stated.
XERXES036, neiowa, Paul, and former water walker:
If I may, I’d like to chime in on this.
Over a whole lot of years, I’ve had a certain amount of experience writing to politicians, and I will usually get some sort of reply, but not always. However, it has always amazed me how politely they can tell you to go pound sand without actually saying the words or just plain obfuscate the issue with inane blather.
Now I am an old man, and frankly have better things to do with whatever time I have left than to write to politicians unless of course an issue really makes my blood boil. (“Better things” DOES include commenting on TTAG now and then.)
Anyway, I think there is something to what each of you has to say; it all depends on what issue and what individual you are writing to/about whether you are wasting your time or not.
So how many votes do you believe Biden got in the 2020 election? Just curious.
There is 0 chance of anything pro-gun passing in the next 2 years. Gun control is Chuck Schumer’s signature issue, and there doesn’t need to be a filibuster. He can just not even bring it to the floor for a vote, like how McConnell blocked Garland’s SC nomination. If he totally forgets how the Senate works, brings it up for a vote, and it passed, Biden would just veto it since gun control is his signature issue too.
Without legislative or executive remedies, courts are our only option at the moment. Comply or not, kick a few buck to one of the pro-gun groups filing suits, like 2AF or FPC. I’m in the comply camp and wish everyone would submit everything possible for stamps. Millions of request handled by 8 bureaucrats will break the system, which is additional evidence for courts to invalidate the NFA.
Finally someone who can actually be realistic on this thread. Paul and neiowa are completely delusional look at the current make up of Congress and tell me with a straight face writing members of congress will be anything more than a fart in the wind.
90% of Republican constituents wanted new RNC leadership. The RNC power structure overwhelmingly voted to keep the status quo, giving the finger to the people. Sound familiar? They only look out for themselves.
@Dude exactly the fact there are people on this thread who believes politicians serves the will of the people only demonstrates to me how deluded some people still are.
We got back the right to carry in national parks now. Because we had divided government during the Obama years. I take that as a win.
0bama has never been a supporter of gun civil rights. But he just wanted his [email protected] Pr0gressive agenda advanced. And was willing to support this little tiny piece of gun rights, in order to achieve his primary goal.
Advancing [email protected] in America.
You must love rambling.
“There is 0 chance of anything pro-gun passing in the next 2 years.”
There’s a close to 100 percent chance that unconstitutional gun laws will be struck down in court, thanks to ‘Bruen’…
It will take years for the courts to sort all this out.
I agree with Xerxes036 commentary.
I watched my state legislature, with a conservative veto-proof majority, fold like wet toilet paper when my allegedly conservative Governor vetoed a repeal of some laws which violate the Second Amendment. I asked my state’s very influential gun-rights group why the conservative legislature was not overriding the Governor’s veto: they informed me that conservative leadership flat-out refused to override the veto. Why? God only knows.
On an unrelated matter, I had a dispute with my state’s Executive branch over my small business. I tried in vain to reason with them and come to some sort of acceptable outcome. I finally contacted my state Senator for assistance. My state Senator informed me that my state’s Executive branch also refuses to coordinate with my state legislators and I was out of luck.
Those and other experiences have made it crystal clear to me that the Ruling Class does whatever it wants for its own purposes.
If you still refuse to believe me, explain why Democrat Representatives and Senators (at the both the state and federal level) vote in lock-step something like 99% of the time. (And Republican Representatives and Senators exhibit nearly the same percentage voting in lock-step.)
but but uncommon sense writing your non representing representatives will work this time I promise!!! 🤣🤣
“As far as writing members of congress you might as well be pissin in the wind they don’t care.”
“Writing members of congress is a waste of time theres no political solution here. No matter how much you want there to be.”
Then I assume you will support a peaceful National divorce like I do. Since you believe that writing to your representatives for redress of grievances is a waste of time.
Paul Ryan the previous leader of the House is a gun owning FUDD. That is why nothing got done gun rights wise. And why didn’t the libertarian representative Ben Sass introduced a bill to eliminate the ATF?
Like Rep. Marjorie Taylor Green did.
“Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Introduces a Bill to Abolish The ATF”
“Paul Ryan the previous leader of the House is a gun owning FUDD.”
C’mon- is that the best name you can come up with for Ryan??? I have wasaaaaaay better ones… 😉
@Chris T in KY you do know Reason doesn’t speak for all libertarians right? No matter how much ud like it to. if grasping at straws was an Olympic sport ud win gold.
Hate to burst your bubble i do advocate and support a national divorce soooooo
Good for you.
“Abolish the Electoral College? A Soho Forum Debate” video 1.5 hour long.
Another thing how is Ben Sass libertarian in anyway serious question?
I guess here is a real Libertarian. Sexually liberated.
“Libertarian Party chairman candidate strips on stage at national convention”
@Chris T in KY you do know thats not an answer about Ben Sass you know the person asked you about.
You are avioding the obvious.
You are avoiding the obvious.
@Chris T in KY and you’re avoiding the question which tells me your positive claim about Ben Sass is something you pulled out of your behind.
Chris T in KY:
The Libertarian Party has always been on the lunatic fringe. That’s nothing new.
“The power of the NRA has always been in the people…its membership of millions.”
You mean the millions of subsidizers who have no say at all in stopping the tyrant at the helm who has been determined to run their ship aground for decades?
The smart folks jumped ship long ago after surviving being navigated directly onto the rocks- when the skipper then took a tack right back towards them… and continues to do so to this very day.
Ah so. I’m one of the stupid ones — along with five million others. Thanks for pointing that out.
Tell me that you didn’t read the article without telling me that you missed the point of the article:
That negative effect is infighting.
The point is- the NRA has been its own worst enemy for decades due to WLP… and the members are powerless to stop him. The people’s only weapon is cutting the purse strings.
The smart solution would be righting your own ship before sailing into battle with the enemy…
So you propose that we 5 million members abandon the NRA until the leadership changes. Despite the training classes, the legislative initiatives, the Eddie Eagle youth-safety courses …
And that’s twice now that you’ve called me stupid.
You think that’s a good strategy to bring together the POTG community?
“The point is- the NRA has been its own worst enemy for decades due to WLP…”
Nope- you missed the point and will continue to until you lose your blind hatred for ALL things NRA.
There are many who are not fans of WLP, but that doesn’t mean the efforts of NRA staff and members are misdirected. You obviously send nothing to NRA in this fight.
The question is:
Can you look past your blindness to support the fight, even if it means trying to get the anti-NRA groups who claim to be 2A supporters to work with NRA anyway?
I think many of the anti-NRA posters around these blogs have already fallen off that cliff, and Bloomberg, Watts, Newsom, et al are thrilled to the point of peeing their pants.
Personally, I would rather put my resources into the SAF, FPC, local state orgs with a good track record or any number of other groups that are moving the ball forward.
Well I contacted our local NRA chapter in my county here in Oregon and asked why they didn’t sign on to a lawsuit to fight against the GUN CONTROL that was passed!!!
NOT A PEEP!!!!
I bailed the NRA in the 90’s when “WAYNE THE LITTLE DICTATOR” stated multiple times publicly the “NRA SUPPORTS SENSIBLE GUN CONTROL”!!!
NRA pushed many of the gun control laws on the FEDERAL BOOKS!!!
“You mean the millions of subsidizers who have no say at all…”
So, when were you at an NRA AM fighting for your opinion? I’ve been to the vast majority of them since 1984. I’ll also be at Indy in April. Maybe we can meet up…
“For every 50-comment back and forth argument on Instagram or Twitter, you could have sent…how many letters to your state and federal representatives?”(from the author of the OP)
I’ve been saying this around here and elsewhere for years. And, to put things in perspective:
It is not NRA nor it’s leadership who are denigrating FPS, NAGR, GOA, et al for their efforts. Always the other way around as these groups fight and clamor for money and support to pay their bills and gain some sort of recognition.
No one I know at NRA, nor on the BOD attempts to stand in the way of these groups, nor any success they might have in this battle. In fact- not speculation, many of the members of these groups are also NRA members, and a majority of those “cross members” are happy to continue with their membership with NRA. The postings here and on Firearms News, ARF.com, Ammoland, (etc) are hardly a representative slice of the overall.
On the other hand, the anti-NRA cheerleaders are certainly hoping and praying, and doing everything they can, to try to bring NRA down, prevent recognition for huge sucesses like Bruen and Heller, as well as to distort ongoing efforts concerning tyrannical attempts in the national and state arenas.
I’m betting you don’t even personally know an NRA staff or BOD member. I’m also betting neither your US Senators, US Representative, nor your state senator or rep, or town mayor or board of supervisors even knows you, unless it’s in a negative manner. If I’m wrong, please accept my sincere apology, and thank you for being involved.
e pluribus unum. You know (perhaps): the old hard to break a bundle of arrows v breaking them one at a time? Perhaps I assume too much, though.
After joining nra, I was constantly being begged for money by them. I got tired of it quickly. I got thinking they will never have enough of my money, this whole thing is so nra can make money. I entered a giveaway by nagr, all the sudden I’m a member. The whole thing with gun control is about absolute control over the populace. Whether we like it or not they will not stop until we are under foot. A cottage industry has developed for gun rights advocates. Open your eyes, open your ears, open your hearts. It’s all about one world government, the beast is on the way.
“After joining nra, I was constantly being begged for money by them.”
Well, it’s refreshing that NAGR doesn’t ask for money… So, where’s Dudley get it? As for NRA or any other group: If no one asks, no one will give…
Also intersting that you are automatically a member of NAGR only through sending a contribution, which I assume, by your posting, wasn’t solicited in the first place. That probably explains the number of members NAGR claims. And no service to members necessary- no publications, no programs, etc. Personally, I would like to be the one to decide if I’m a member or not before I find out I am.
Again, I’m not belittling or mocking anything NAGR (or others) might do in the 2A battle, but one would have to have been born yesterday to think court cases all the way to SCOTUS need no fundraising or soliciting for funds. As said aroubd here in the past, Tom King, Pres of NYSRPA told me directly that NRA’s tag in the Bruen case was upwards of $2.3 million.
Where do you think that came from?
The New York state government?
Oh, yeah, the citizen’s of NY actually subsidized their own government’s effort to end their 2A rights using the tax money the citizens sent them, with a little help from Bloomberg, et al. Why, I bet they were never asked for money…
F the NRA.
What did the NRA spend $50 million on last year? BTW, that’s 2/3 of the membership dues. The answer is outside counsel to keep WLP out of jail temporarily. Courts have already ruled thar the NRA can’t be dissolved for WLP’s misdeeds. If you want your money to be spent on 2A issues, donate to another group or at least NRA-ILA directly.
In no way agreeing nor disagreeing with you, Anymouse, but I doubt GOA, FPC, SAF or NAGR could even fathom the $50 million you claim NRA spent on WLP last year. And perhaps you should check the accuracy of your figures.
“but I’ve also had a few firearms I’ve wanted to stamp anyway, so should I take advantage of the opportunity to do it for free?”
sure go ahead and take advantage of this gracious and generous offer from the ATF to let you have your constitutional right for free with their permission that is.
seriously… is that what a constitutional right and a government acting unconstitutionally is worth to you… a few things you can get for free so that makes it ok?
seriously, no one sees this for what it is? the first step in turning a constitutional right into a privilege controlled by government. if they can get away with doing this the next step is the AR telescoping stock that with, in ATF logic they used here, a piece of velcro can magically become a ‘brace’ therefore all 16 in barrel AR rifles magically become an SBR the owners will need NFA permission by tax stamp to own. you get the point?
I’ve always thought you were smart Travis. But to even consider being willing to trade your right for a few ‘free’ ‘permission’ grants to exercise your constitutional right is not smart at all.
It’s all about one world government, disarmament, turning the populace against each other, trying to get us completely dependent upon the grid. Coming after gass stoves is to show how much control they have. Your electric service can be disconnected at a keyboard. You get out of line, we cut off your electric, you can’t cook supper, you can’t leave, can’t tell anyone what’s happening to you.
I wasn’t aware I was infighting.
I do contact all my reps regularly to enforce the 2nd, 14th and 10th amendments and get rid of the ATF as an illegal offshoot of the redcoats, or at least not use any state or state subsidy resources to assist them.
This is ridiculous. The idea that you might be given a ‘free tax stamp’ is to get your name on a list. NOTHING more. It is not worth pursuing or arguing about. It’s no different from submitting a comment. It does not matter how polite you are. It isn’t even likely to be read. We all saw this take place. You are being played.
The NRA is not even a variable in this whole thing. Though we are made to think they are.
“I don’t like compliance either, but I’ve also had a few firearms I’ve wanted to stamp anyway, so should I take advantage of the opportunity to do it for free?”
You can’t see a trap when it’s laid out right in front of you!
The free SBR thing is an interesting mental game. If people wanted to SBR previously, nothing was stopping them from doing so. They could form 1 it at any point. They bought a brace instead.
Was the $200 the reason they didn’t form 1 before? Or did they not want to put it on the registry? Or didn’t want to bother with the paper work? The “free stamp” only addresses the cost issue, you still need the paperwork and get the registry, likely with a pretty long wait if lots of others do this too.
People could still remove the brace and register a form 1 outside the amnesty period if they want to, so it does seem the motivation to jump on this quickly is FOMO because the ATF said “free stamps if you get on this now!”
Why chase a free tax stamp?
It’s very existence is an affront to your liberty. A constant reminder of who owns you and a very real token of a right turned privilege. Would you want free chains around your ankles and wrists? At least the chains would have some resale value. You can’t trade it or sell the stamp. It has zero value.
I don’t begrudge those that use braces in an effort to “get around” the NFA laws – even though I personally think the braces are uncomfortable in general, especially compared to SBRs with proper stocks.
I also think the NFA does not stand up to scrutiny (ie, is unconstitutional), and SBRs, suppressors, and even MGs should be available for any lawful purpose by civilians.
I also think what the ATF is doing with bump-stocks, braces, etc, is grossly overstepping their authority, and is ripe for a smack-down.
I think the brace rule will get tossed simply on ADA and 14th amendment grounds (if a firearm configured in such a way such that it is legal for a disabled person, but illegal for a non-disabled person, then the 14th amendment is violated)
My concern is that the wheels of justice turn glacially (if they were only slow, it might be bearable) while offering zero guarantee of successful litigation.
The infighting generally only occurs with FUDDs that start with “nobody needs a” .
I personally have no use for a “pistol” brace but i will and do fight for the right of others to own and use one. it’s not about like or dislikes, it’s about the Second Amendment.
The right attitude.
I’ve written my state senators…many times. All I get back are boilerplate replies that don’t address my complaint as they don’t care. They are Cantwell and Murray and writing them is a waste of my time and doesn’t accomplish a thing. They both are anti-gun as is the rest of the west side of Washington State.
My state representatives are republicans and I know where they stand, but I’m in eastern Washington State and it doesn’t matter what we vote for here, it’s what the population saturated moronic west side votes for including with our idiot governor Jay Inslee.
As far as what each individual does who possesses an affected weapon equipped with a brace, that’s up to them! I don’t give a hill of beans what they do.
I know I am NOT going to register any as SBRs, destroy or send diddly squat to the ATF but conversely, I’m not going to allow myself to be an arbitrary sacrificial lamb or be looking over my shoulder, I’ve done more than enough of that. I will be in compliance and if the ATF should come a knocking, I will most certainly tell them two things, I’m in compliance and GTF off my property, then slam the door in their face.
I live on the West Side and what you say is 100% true. Our Congressman looks like he could be a body-double for Carl the Cuck!
Yea don’t even bother doing that shit. They just use your information to send out their spam. Some intern opens letters, sifts through them, then trashes them.
Both of my US Senators are part of the Democrat swamp and would be happy to make things worse. Yes, I have written and called even though it is likely a waste of time. My Congressman is a Fudd, but seems better than some and I wrote him too. The courts seem like they are the only short term solution.
“Let people make their own decisions.”
What? No. That’s crazy talk. You have to like what I like. Do you even internet, bro?
Mass non-compliance beats mass protest. Laws can only be effective if the majority obeys them voluntarily. Think about the Volsread Act which prohibited the production and sale of alcoholic beverages. People disobeyed it and it was repealed in a decade and a half.
The problem with that, a person runs the risk of being made an example of. Believe me, having a serious charge hanging over your head isn’t fun at all. I’ll tell you this, TALK IS CHEAP. Lawyers are expensive and if a person is charged, there go all your guns, there goes your freedom, there goes your money, if you are jailed, there goes your property because as soon as you are in jail, your stuff is available for everyone to steal. If the ATF served a warrant, your doors are broken, your pets are in a shelter and your stuff and property is a messy nightmare. Don’t believe me, have cops serve a warrant on your place if you need some education on how that turns out or talk to people who have had police perform search warrants, they’re not nice.
A person needs to choose the battles they fight. I live alone, have significant assets and pets and I’m NOT sitting in jail for some retarded BS the ATF has enacted. The fix is painfully simple and I’m not getting ensnared or looking over my shoulder a single nano-second over it. It’s simple, you take the brace off and put a standard buffer tube on that won’t accept a brace. End of issue. If the ATF gets overruled by courts or backs down, put the brace back on.
My assets aren’t worth the risk. The ATF will never know if I complied or not. All they can tell is that I bought an AR pistol and never registered it as a SBR. They don’t know and won’t know anymore than that unless I tell them.
It’s not cowardice, it’s knowing which battles to fight. Yes for now, it’s not worth the fight because the consequences are severe. Even if I won a court battle, they’re not going to repay me for my lawyers and that could wipe out my net worth. I’m worth upwards of 7 figures, I’m not risking it, not for the retards at the ATF
I’m too old for that stupid shit.
There is non compliance that started before all this, and there is the modern fad of “we will not comply” while they buy shit online using credit cards and leaving reviews for it. Nobody cares what you are worth. You think I don’t enjoy a comfortable lifestyle? I go to the same gas pumps you do. I use electricity.
I’d give it up in a heartbeat. But what you said in your first comment is not what you said in your second commment. You straight up said “fuck it, take me to jail then” in your first comment, and in your second you said “knowing which battles to fight”. So which is it? Do you fight, or do you let them take you and hope you get out of it? Because that’s what the Jews in Germany did and how did that work out for them?
I love my life. I enjoy the comforts. I live well. But if they come at me with that bullshit, it’s Ruby fucken ridge. I will not go peacefully. That’s really all it boils down to. Nobody is saying go out there and start a war, but that’s what people seem to think others are saying. We are simply saying “don’t bring the war to us, because I will fight back”.
I have every faith that this shit will be overturned. In the event it is not, however, I know where I stand and what I will do if my number is called. And that is for a lot more than just this issue.
As I live in IL, the indigenous and natural territory of the Fudd Gun Owner, I have lost count how many times I have heard these Fudds complain that we don’t need ARs or other black rifles. The IL Fudds support this ban, they support the FOID card to this very day. Lets not forgot kids the ISRA promoted and wanted the FOID act. IL Fudds supported the first cook county AWB that was then copied by Bill Clinton and used for his ban. As long as IL is the land of the Fudd we will have more restrictions and they will be cheered for by the Fudds.
Don’t forget that it looks thos who own imports are SOL under the new rule. They cannot remove their brace as it was part of 922r compliance and they cannot register their (suddenly) SBR (I forget why. Have to go watch guns and gadgets again). So the only option for your braced Scorpion, or ACE, or whatever is hand it over to the man.
@The Crimson Pirate
What the ATF is referring to is the ASSEMBLY of a rifle from imported parts which under 922r generally makes it illegal and 27CFR 478.39 provides that a person may not assemble a semiautomatic rifle using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in the relevant paragraphs of the regulation. If you assembled a weapon illegally under 922r, removal of the brace would not cure the 922r violation. THAT IS WHAT THE ATF IS SAYING
For example, if you bought an Arsenal AK pistol ALREADY assembled that was 922r compliant then you added a brace, there is no problem, remove the brace.
They are talking about ASSEMBLING from FOREIGN made parts ONLY.
So no folks, owners of imported AK and AR pattern weapons don’t have to destroy them. Simply remove the brace and buffer tube or otherwise reconfigure for compliance.
You might want to check and see if 922r applies to pistols and rifles the same. I don’t believe it does.
You’re right, it’s specific to semi-auto rifles and shotguns: “It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to” blah blah blah
Sorry this is late. I wrote it, then got busy and didn’t post it.
922r applies to rifles and shotguns, but since the ATF is trying to re-classify pistols, therein is the problem. However
if a person bought a AR pistol or AK pistol, and put a brace on it, it’s compliant ANYWAY, simply remove the brace.
My above comment is a little confusing as I said already assembled and 922r compliant. Well since 922r doesn’t apply to pistols, only rifles, but if a person was trying to register one as an SBR, and it already wasn’t compliant with 922r, that would be a problem.
Some are more gun friendly than others but will not allow the ownership of NFA items, so the people that live in those states are the ones who are screwed in all of this. Can’t register an SBR because of the non-NFA law and they can’t(legally) keep their brace because of the AFT
The ATF doesn’t have the authority to waive the tax stamp anymore than they have the right to add items to the NFA as they see fit.
Have you not been paying attention for the last 20+ years or so?
You do understand that the Left gets to play by their own rules right?
“I don’t like compliance either, but…”
Is where I stopped reading. You do like compliance and you just admitted you are going to comply. So fuck off.
You want unity? Stop complying. Stop buying into the bullshit that tyrants are selling you. Your “thin blue line”, your compliance, is their boot on your throat whether you want to admit it in the simplest form or not. It’s all the same shit different toilet. This country started a fucking war over a 2% tax, and we are now at what? Beyond 27%?
Enough is enough. I love reading this shit and watching people like you criticize the ones willing to “boog” by themselves because you are too fucking scared to do it. You call them crazy, but in reality, the ones writing messages in tyrants blood is exactly what you crave. You call for it all the time – accountability. How many of you bootlickers have said shit like “we should bring back the guillotine”? Or even thought about the old times of tar and feather etc etc. Well, you can’t have it both ways. The law is a fucking joke and our system is proof of it. Your forms of punishment don’t do shit and you know it. So what do you want? Compliance? Or Rebellion? Guess which ones sits closer to freedom. Is rebellion perfect? No. Obviously. Mob justice can be very dangerous – but it can also be the most valuable tool to actually push change. And you know you agree with that because it’s the basics of how this country was “founded” and fought for.
If those back then could see us now, they would have turned into Dictators or Anarchists. Again, guess which one is closer to freedom.
‘You want unity?….’
So we can have unity ONLY if we agree with you…
You fuck off. If you want to be the hero and show everyone else how’s it’s done, go ahead. You’re a big talker, put up or STFU.
I suspect you’re a big Pu$$y that only talks tough.
“be the hero”
I’ve been “not complying” with their bullshit for years, buddy.
You want me to take out some ATF agents to prove it to you or something? I was building plastic guns while you were giving your credit card info out online to buy polymer 80’s. Now all the sudden because people like you were stupid enough to buy complete lowers etc etc it’s “we should unite”.
About fucken time. Talk is cheap… which is why people like me wish people like you would put your money where your mouth is, long ago. A bumper sticker and after actions reports spread on social media just aint gonna cut it.
Never bought a polymer 80, dipshit. No bumper stickers either.
You’re the one talking tough while doing absolutely NOTHING but running your big fucking cock-holster.
Of all these “rebels” on here that are screaming they won’t comply I wonder if they will put an actual stock on their pistols and replace the pistol brace? Legally now they are one and the same so why not put a better product on it.
The fact is, putting a pistol brace on to begin with was complying. You wanted an sbr but you couldn’t have one so you got something with a pistol brace to comply with ATF rules. So stop acting like some tough guy rebel.
Now if you have a true disability and need it, I’m not talking to you but instead the other 99 percent who used it to get around atf rules in the first place.
I guess if you are the type to buy a complete, you deserve this kind of enforcement to begin with.
“This is Not the Time for Infighting”
There are FUDDs in the “gun community” and here on TTAG who really are in the closet about really loving the AFT. But because they’re so relaxed about it “in the closet” they slip up, and let their guard down. And expose themselves like they did a couple of years ago.
“Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Is Hurting The Gun Rights Movement”
“(It’s also worth contributing to the gun rights orgs that are fighting this out in the courts.)”
Not so. The ATF ruling is a symptom; NFA/GCA is the disease.
Fighting the pistol brace rule benefits only those who depend upon the ATF to introduce regulations, so that the industry providing the braces can continue to provide braces that are unneeded if NFA/GCA are repealed.
“This is Not the Time for Infighting”
Anytime is a good time for infighting. Anyone who disagree with me, about anything, should be thrown off the island, with no direction home.
If all your doing is waiting to get the free government handout your not “fighting” and are of no use
The question is if you could go back in time would you be smart enough to reconsider sitting down at a computer and writing this turd of a comply with unconstitutional bullshit article. We already know the answer.
All this talk about keeping pistol braces as a workaround is not what we should be arguing about and fighting in court. We should be going after the NFA, in whole or in part and get THAT removed, but it seems these national groups are more concerned with saving the companies doing the workaround rather than getting rid of the thing those companies are working around.
Without the NFA, or at least the SBR/SBS part, we wouldn’t have made these braces as people with disabilities could just put a regular stock their firearms.
No one seems to want to take the NFA to court and what it boils down to is money. Money coming into the groups’ coffers from the brace makers and the money they’d stand to lose if they got rid of the Hughes amendment/MG registry. The registered MGs would lose value so quickly that those people collecting them as an investment don’t want to see the Hughes go away. That $30k someone spent on an M16 would only be worth a small historical value compared to being able to buy a modern day army surplus full auto M4 for only a little more than a semi-auto AR15.
One could argue that the anti-gunners should be wanting the repeal just as much as those of us who can’t afford an actual MG do. They would claim it’d hurt the NRA so badly because money and I don’t see the NRA(or any other group, really) trying to file against the NFA/Hughes even though they promised to fight Hughes in court if Regan signed the 1986 FOPA.
Did the NRA file a lawsuit yet? No? This is why people hate the NRA. They take donations and don’t actually do anything or get into the fight. They just collect donations. Get back to me after they file a few law suits