Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Merrick Garland
President Joe Biden gestures as he speaks about gun violence prevention in the Rose Garden at the White House. (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik)
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Poor old Joe. We knock him around a lot for his advancing physical and mental infirmities. But when you get him going on a topic he really cares about — like rolling back Americans’ gun rights — it puts an extra little spring in his step. The fact that he referred to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms as the A.F.T. (twice) today is a slip-up any of us could make, right? Sure.

But you can’t put the old guy in front of a microphone for more than a minute or two before the lies and outright falsehoods begin to pour forth, drowning his audience in a fetid flow of malodorous misinformation.

In fact, the President called the United States an “international embarassment” this morning because of our ongoing “gun violence epidemic.” Yeah, it was that bad.

Make no mistake, these aren’t just instances of “mis-speaking” or exaggeration (he was reading from a TelePromter, after all). Grampy Joe stood before his audience and the cameras and lied these same lies he’s been lying over and over again for decades.

Today’s big Rose Garden announcement, which gathered many of the gun control community’s luminaries, was no exception. So while the lies were legion, for brevity’s sake, we’ll keep our list of Biden’s most bilious falsehoods to a list of the top three.

Lie Number 1

Nothing I’m about to recommend in any way impinges on the Second Amendment. … The idea is just bizarre to think that some of the things we’re recommending are contrary to the constitution.

The two gun gun control measures Biden has directed the Department of Justice, through ATF rule-making, to put in place would put an and end to 80% frames and lowers that aren’t serialized. He wants the parts — or build kits that contain them — to be serialized and regulated under the Gun Control Act, requiring buyers to undergo the requisite background check.

Americans have been building their own firearms since before the Declaration of Independence. There’s literally nothing different about finishing and assembling a firearm from a build kit, or crafting your own receiver and completing a build from a range of parts bought separately.

ghost gun 80% arms
Joe Biden says this is a firearm and you can build it in 30 minutes. (JWT for TTAG)

The ATF has already defined 80% frames and lowers as non-firearms. That’s why they don’t require a background check to purchase one. Selling one as part of a build kit doesn’t make it any easier to complete one, either. So now regulating these plastic or aluminum non-guns as firearms would be a clear violation of American’s right to keep and bear arms.

As for regulating AR or AK pistols with braces attached under the National Firearm Act, that would be another bright line violation. AR and AK pistols are, just like a GLOCK 17 or a SIG P365, semiautomatic handguns. In other words they’re among the most commonly owned and used firearms in the country.

The Supreme Court’s Heller decision had something to say about commonly owned and used firearms. After noting that the Second Amendment “is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose,” Justice Scalia wrote that the right to keep and bear arms applies to “those (guns) in common use for lawful purposes.” He went on to note that a lower court ruling finding “the sorts of weapons protected (from regulation) are those ‘in common use at the time’ finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.”

Again the ATF has long ago approved the use of pistol stabilizing braces. Adding one to a semi-automatic pistol — whatever the caliber — doesn’t somehow magically transform a pistol into a short barrel rifle, let alone justify regulating one as a machine gun. Trying to do so is the beginning of a process of chipping away at sales and ownership of semi-automatic firearms.

In short, by any measure, requiring Americans to undergo a background check when buying parts that are not guns, or regulating semi-automatic pistols with braces out of reach of most people, represent egregious, unconstitutional impingements on Second Amendment rights.

Lie Number 2

You walk into a store and buy a gun, you have a background check. But you go to a gun show, you can buy whatever you want and no background check. 

Old Joe just can’t help himself. This often-repeated lie has been employed — and debunked — by so many members of the gun control community, you’d think they’d have stopped trying to use it. But maybe the old guy figures most people have never been to a gun show and have no idea he’s really lying through his teeth.

Joe — and virtually every single person in the Rose Garden audience today — knows that the Middle East gun bazaar image that Biden described today couldn’t possibly be further from the truth. The vast majority of those selling guns at the hundreds of gun shows around the country are licensed dealers. Anyone buying a firearm from them has to undergo the same background checks they would if they walked into a brick-and-mortar store.

If that doesn’t happen, the dealer has broken the law.

Joe Biden
(AP Photo/Andrew Harnik)

Yes, it’s possible to buy a gun in a direct sale from another attendee who’s walking the aisles or from an individual collector who buys a table in order to offload a few guns, but those are clear exceptions. Biden’s “you can buy whatever you want” garbage is a blatant and disgusting lie and he (probably) knows it.

Lie Number 3

The only industry in America — a billion dollar industry — that can’t be sued, has exempt from being sued, are gun manufacturers. … This is the only outfit that is exempt from being sued. 

Once again, this is a lie that Biden repeats over and over. No industry in America is exempt from being sued if it produces faulty or dangerous products. Ask Remington if gun makers enjoy some kind of special magic immunity from lawsuits.

In repeating this lie, Biden was referring to Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. That’s the law that protects gun makers from lawfare suits by anti-gun types when the manufacturers’ lawfully-made and legally-sold products are used in the commission of a crime.

The PLCAA is a (to coin a phrase) common sense protection put in place to protect gun makers, keeping blood-sucking tort lawyers and gun control industry sharks from literally suing them into bankruptcy.

Biden knows this. He’s well aware of what repealing the PLCAA would do to gun makers. In fact, in his remarks this morning, he let this little comment slip:

If I get one thing on my list, if the Lord came down and said, ‘Joe, you get one of these,’ gimme that one (PLCAA repeal). 

Nothing would make Joe Biden and every one of the gun-grabbing droogs in his Rose Garden audience happier than watching America’s firearms manufacturers sued into oblivion.



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  1. He’s a communist. They lie. The next question is, what are the POTG going to do? I wrote to both of my communist senators Warner and Little Timmy Kaine of VA but I don’t expect a coherent response from wither one. My Congresscommie, Bobby Scott, is also another domestic enemy of the Constitution. Bad day for us all around.

  2. Not so fast Jim Crow Gun Control joe…Gun Control in any shape or form is a racist and nazi based agenda. That chiseled fact makes Gun Control just as despicable as slavery, segregation, lynching, Jim Crow, the KKK, Eugenics and other race based atrocities attributed to the democRat Party.
    The 1968 Gun Control Act stems from racism and needs to be ripped from the books. To say nothing is to condone it.

  3. “Again the ATF has long ago approved the use of pistol stabilizing braces. Adding one to a semi-automatic pistol — whatever the caliber — doesn’t somehow magically transform a pistol into a short barrel rifle, let alone justify regulating one as a machine gun.”

    The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) was law crafted to provide strong protections from disability discrimination. Suing using the ADA as a vehicle stands a very strong chance of striking that down.

    It’s time to get busy and counter this.

    Donate to the Second Amendment foundation (and others) and get the ball rolling…

    • Gun owners: We can’t get SBRs off the NFA, go lets leverage the ADA. That is an argument that WILL blow up in the face of gun owners once it goes mainstream because it is disgusting if you really think about it. The point of the ADA if to provide access for people in need, not to work around another law. Push to set SBRs classified and treated like handguns. But using the ADA, really. Every video out there of someone trying to use the brace as indented just proves the ADA argument is disingenuous.

    • While a cute thought to try and stop the loophole from being plugged, i’m sure the ADA won’t be too happy when non-disable people claim the need for a brace. They may just argue with the ATF for a clause that if you have doctor’s note showing need of a brace you’re good to go, and if you don’t it’ll be like you’re parking in a handicap spot except in this case it’s federal felony time.

  4. I seem to recall a certain set of vaccine companies getting legal immunity from lawsuits over Covid Vaccines. One of which was ethical enough to get in trouble for selling what amounts to prescription heroin.

    Don’t worry everyone, Politifact will make up some excuses for ol Joe then point to something shiny Trump said or whatever.

    • A long time ago (1950s), it was the polio vaccine producers. However, a federal fund was set up to assist those who were injured by the vaccine.

    • internet toughguy talk is childish. you know realistically when braces are put on the NFA list, the majority of ‘law-abiding’ citizens will convert or register them.
      Any fantasy imaginations of patriotic revolutionaries joining together to take down or resist the federal tyranny will be hilariously put down, hell even BLM can’t get the things they want from months of riots.
      and if you’re williing to risk the ire of a local cop who decides to detain you while his dept calls the ATF, then I’m sure you’ll get tons of ‘support’ and ‘stay strong’ emails and donations from all the pro-2A groups out there, while you defend your freedom in court.

      • when the vast majority decide to ignore the law….(non-compliance) the law ceases to function…going covert and adopting this method would seem to be the best way to respond…but it is a concept that is dangerous to the establishment…ignoring the law just might become a habit..for many it already has…

  5. Yikes! Just talked to a very old friend on his birthday today. He reloads and can’t find squat-he isn’t shooting until he can. If you thought the ammo crunch was bad just wait ‘tlll the ban hammer comes. Slow Joe & Ho(+ Dims) need to watch their azzes. Everyone ain’t getting rid of that brace…

    • You got that right but Joe’s executive orders will just fall in line behind the bump stock ban and eventually not pass judicial review (likely long after Joe and the Ho are out of office).

      Regulations like these (and not just the firearms-related ones) created by executive order will bring down Chevron and Auer and eventually bring down the Administrative State through litigation and state nullificatiin.

      It will be a grindingly slow process though.

  6. It is time to actually take matters into our own hands if we want to protect our God Given rights. Because Dems are atheistic by nature there can be rights bestowed upon us by God because according to them He doesn’t exist!! Therefore are rights must then come from man are but suggestions!!! When you understand that you understand that we must use all means available to protect those rights from usurpation by man or democrats (same thing). If that means we start a war then so be it. Dancing around the obvious 80 lbs. guerilla in the room is not going to make that fact go away. Counting on Joe Manchin to be our one and only hope is like the old saying that “2 is one and 1 is none” truism!! The sooner we start to actually use our tools as described by Thomas Jefferson to keep these tyrants off our backs the better!!! We need to organize around the concept that a true fight is coming and prepare and train accordingly otherwise we are left to the Courts to save us which will take many years if not decades and by then our guns will be gone along with our other freedoms! it is better to die fighting standing up then surrender and live on our knees!!!

  7. Old fool just completing Obummer’s “legacy”! You know, the one that makes criminals out of every every straight white Male who owns a gun!!! Gonna be interesting to see how he implements all this sh*t in Chiraq, Baltimore, New York, etc.

    • Why would they? They can just tax people like you and you’ll pay every penny.

      Take their assets and no violence will be necessary
      It’s a way for them to virtue signal that we are the bad ones for using violence to stop corruption and tyranny.

      “But all they had to do was pay for something they already owned because now it’s illegal – cuz we said so”.

      • Ok dude…. The whole Montana Militia act you post here is pretty entertaining but for all I know your somebody paid to come on here and kick the beehive. Or maybe you’re really some angry spun up patriot (with a touch of substance abuse) exercising your god given rights. Then again, you could be an Asian chic at Starbucks doing this for laughs and the jokes on me.

        That being said… Worrying about these knuckleheads coming for guns is like worrying if the sun is gonna rise tomorrow.

        Their gonna do whatever they do regardless of our little “anonymous” rants and ravings on some tiny broke dick gun blog (that btw was sold to the left leaning highest bidder at the time.)

        As for tax… Your correct, I pay tax like everyone else. Have you paid any tax or are you off grid in some Montana bunker living off the land waiting for the apocalypse? If that’s the case the winters must be tough!

        Like I’ve said on here before. The whole gun control bit and the other polarized-take a side nonsense they push is a big distraction. Guns, gender, race, immigration are just things that the serfs bicker about. Keeps em nice and busy while they’re being fleeced…

        Reset economy, poverty, hyperinflation, war, huge agricultural losses, eviction bubbles popping, limited resources, food shortages, bankrupt fed/state/local governments, welfare subsidies useless and likely and summer full of fire and riots…

        And you think the masses are gonna be registering pistol braces and paying tax stamps on gun gadgets and wiz bang gizmos. Al righty then.

        • Winters are easy.

          But for a defeatist, life is a challenge no matter where you live.

          The fact that you think comments kick the beehive tells me how much fight you have, ever had for that matter, in you. All bent out of shape over someone speaking their mind that you gotta puff yourself up to feel superior, but the reality is, you are just mad over your own complacency. You must be new here. This ain’t reddit, homie.

          Suck it up or avoid the comment section. All you FUDDs come and go here. Best of luck with your shortcomings in the future.

        • I also encourage you to organize locally, so in 2023/24 when the burning continues, you have a plan to stay connected and survive instead of rationing the months worth of shit stock you just braved the local costco for.

      • wait until they take control of your money and direct how you can spend it…(currently in the works and already in place elsewhere)….you ain’t seen anything yet!…just ask the Canadian truckers…..

    • You clearly have no idea how modern technocratic tyrannies work. Door-kicking is often not an especially large percentage of it.

  8. Fourth biggest lies… “Nobody needs to shoot more than two shotgun blasts through the door, or off of the balcony.” Actually, if you’re as fucking retarded as King Dribblecup, you are going to need MANY more than two blasts, regardless of the type of gun utilized.

  9. Biden and all his anti-2nd amendment cronies can f!@k off… the liberatards are trying to start another civil war. It’sthe only thing that makes sense with all their race baiting, white supremacy, cozing up to communists anti-gun b.s. Democrats really need to leave the U.S. and immigrate to Venezuela or commit suicide.. Trump should of built a wall around N.Y. and shithole New Jersey and traded California for unlimited tequila and taco Tuesday.

    • China might offer some debt relief if Biden turns a blind eye to Taiwan and allows China some new eastern provinces: Hawaii, Alaska, Washington, Oregon, and California.

        • Our old Oberon class boats were good enough to sink the Enterprise in war games. The Collins were a lot quieter again once the bugs were worked out.

        • the Aussies have always done their part…just ain’t that many of them…and their azzes are hanging way out there….arming-up Taiwan would seem the best strategy at this point while we get our act together….

      • They can have Hawaii, but I bet we have to shoot a couple congressional morons before they’d accept it.

  10. Isn’t there a legal mandate as to acute cognitive mental function to be a mlilitary leader, commander in charge? Why won’t anyone question sleepy Joe’s mental status. The guy can’t keep a thought in his head. Come on Man!

    I guess I will order up some 80% lowers and a jig kit before they attempt to make it illegal. .

  11. Short-barreled rifles and shotguns appears – from reading the record – as an inadvertent artifact in drafting the NFA`34. FDR wanted to register handguns (taxed at $5); but the NRA wouldn’t support that.

    Assuming handguns survived in the NFA`34, short-barreled rifles and shotguns would seem to be a cheap loophole. One could buy a relatively inexpensive rifle/shotgun, cut down the barrel or stock, and have a weapon approaching the handgun in conceal-ability. Can’t have that!

    But, handguns didn’t survive on the cutting-room floor. Yet no one bothered to remove the superfluous SBS/SBR registration and tax requirement.

    The biggest industrial immunity granted by Congress is that applicable to vaccine makers. I’m not going to argue one way or the other as to the wisdom of immunity for vaccine makers. Might well be a net positive. But that’s the law that Congress gave us. And, it’s a bigger carve-out than PLCAA gives to FFLs.

    The real argument is whether the courts ought to be used as a vehicle to persecute a vendetta against an enumerated right.

    Should gun owners fund class-action lawsuits against car manufacturers and dealers for making and selling cars driven by drunk drivers? Should we fund class-action lawsuits against manufacturers and merchants for making and selling ladders that elderly people fall off of? How about screwdriver manufacturers and hardware stores for the crimes of thugs who sharpen the tips making them effective stabbing weapons?

    As long as the target is narrowed to FFLs, the courts are willing to do the Progressives’ will. Put a target on the backs of every industry, worker and merchant’s livelihood and we should see a lobby that will defend PLCAA.

    • You can cut a rifle down and make it a pistol long as it doesn’t have a buttstock, but you cant do that with a shotgunm.

      • No. “Weapon made from a rifle” is a specific SBR category if it doesn’t meet the barrel / OAL requirements.

      • possum,

        According to my understanding of the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the National Gun Control Act of 1968:

        If you take a rifle — which by definition is a completed firearm with a barrel over 16-inches and an overall length greater than 26-inches — and then proceed to cut the barrel shorter than 16-inches, you will be violating the National Firearms Act of 1934 unless you FIRST acquire a short-barreled rifle tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

        The very same principle applies to a shotgun — a completed shotgun with a barrel greater than 18-inches and overall length greater than 26-inches — if you proceed to cut the barrel shorter than 18-inches without first acquiring your ATF tax stamp. (That will violate the National Firearms Act of 1934.)

        The only way around the requirement to acquire a tax stamp BEFORE you assemble a “short-barreled” rifle or shotgun is if you start with a bare receiver which has never been part of a complete rifle or shotgun, then attach a “short” barrel, and never attach a butt-stock.

        Disclaimer: I am not an attorney and the above is not legal advice.

        • Son of a gunm, I did not know that. Used to hunt with a coon hunter that had a whacked down .22 bolt action. Here we thought we was all legal and sht. Guys gotta be careful, thanx for info.

        • the NFA was originally referred to as the “gangster gun act”…and was directed at weapons used by them…they were perceived as the terrorists of their time and often outgunned the cops…it was an attempt to restore balance…and applied primarily to automatic weapons…something there was little public demand for because of their limited utility and high price in the midst of the depression…short barreled rifles and shotguns have always been around…but their utility is limited as well…

  12. Every gun was legal to Own prior to the 1934 Law. You could walk into a store and buy a Thompson Submachine gun or a BAR and No paper work was required……

    • You could have them mailed to your house. Only a payment is required. Check, money order, or pay in cash. Only the “green paper work” is required.

        • The rich kept Auto-Ordnance in business for 20 years before WW2. They only had a little less money during the Great Depression.

          The rich, criminal or law abiding will always have machine guns.

      • If nothing else the reasons behind why the democrats went after that one should be a lesson for every minority.

      • I was having guns mailed to me right up through the mid-80’s…imagine an M-60 left on your doorstep…if the porch pirates only knew!…thankfully we had less of that sort of thing back then……

    • And that all lasted until the gangs started using them. They wanted to get rid of handguns as well, but that never worked out. Bump stocks were fine as well, until someone used them for crowd control. And that shooting scared a lot of the pro-gun people as well. Funny how all the videos and threads on best ways to set them up were pulled not just from YouTube, but Full30 and all the gun boards as well just weeks after the shooting.

    • BAR’s were often restricted to the military…and Thompson’s often sat gathering dust on shelves because of their exorbitant cost and limited utility…even the military wasn’t buying them…the only real buyers were the corporations and companies arming their private “goon squads” in the labor wars…many of these would later be donated to local PD’s…some are still there to this day…

  13. You have an american birthright to the same weapons that the police and military have. But the NRA has no education program to teach this on any level. Local, state, or national. And they are not lobbying to have it done in the schools.

    • But homosexuals are lobbying to have their agenda taught in the schools. That is not a lie. That is a factual statement. Their agenda does not include the second amendment. But they do want THEIR guns.

    • “You have American birthright to the same weapons that the police and military have”…technically that’s true…but priced out of the range of most…thus controlling their numbers…the AR-15 is a good compromise…very similar to our current small arm, affordable and fires the same ammo…people are opting for self-defense weaponry these days rather than sporting arms and this gun is the best protective device available to the general public….

  14. And my pet peeve, “You can’t yell ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”

    First of all, it’s absolutely untrue. Show me a law on the books that says you cannot yell ‘fire’ in a theater. Not only that, if the theater is actually on fire, it would be the prudent thing to do.

    What IS against the law is to unjustly endanger the public by FALSELY yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater, when there is in fact, no fire. This is already against the law, so the example as applied to guns is absurd.

    Second, and even more importantly, the analogy is completely invalid. The “gun control” answer to prevent someone inappropriately yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater would be to silence ALL speech, by ALL people, at ALL times, and in ALL places, simply because someone MIGHT some day yell ‘fire’ in a crowded theater when there is in fact, no fire.

    No sane person would agree that such overreach is justified to prevent that one small possible infraction, yet they are all too willing to use that example to take guns from law-abiding citizens, the very vast majority of which will never commit a crime with their firearm.

    • You’re spot on there. The best example of a restriction on speech they have doesn’t muzzle people or remove their voice, it potentially restricts the use of voice to cause harm.

      Geee, I wonder if we already have any laws restricting the use of firearms to harm people….

  15. The tortured logic that the Democratic Party uses to justify their actions would be funny, if it wasn’t a serious violation if the Constitution, human rights and plain old common sense.

    If you must lie to me to convince me your ideals are better than mine, I know what you haven’t said is what I should be wary of. I have read world history, especially the history of people who were kept armless and unable to defend themselves. Don’t lie to me, I don’t respect a liar. Tell me the truth, what do you have planned that would cause me to defend myself from you?

  16. “The vast majority of those selling guns at the hundreds of gun shows around the country are licensed dealers.”

    Cite your source. Just a guess or is this an actual stat? Bought 4 guns from 4 shows last year. All were from “personal collections.”

    • I have been to many gun shows in many States. FFLs outnumbered the non FFLs.

      Did you note how many FFLs vs non FFLs there were at the ones you went to? Did you seek out non FFLs?

      • No—didn’t seek out anyone. Bought what i liked. Certainly were FFLs there. Can’t say they were even the majority. My concern is that guys like this call out gun grabbers as liars and then make statements like “The vast majority of those selling guns at the hundreds of gun shows around the country are licensed dealers.”

        This kind of thing is so easily turned around and the point dismissed. I’d note that 50-50 FFL to non-FFL would not be “vast majority.” Indeed that is no majority at all. If Zimmerman is relying on stats, I’d love to see them.

        • crack head…. shut up with your twisted stupidity…..

        • Oh boy, the trolls are out! Love asking for citation/numbers and fools can’t provide anything.

        • Can you provide stats that say FFL to non FFL is 50/50? Or any stats at all?

          If not…. “Oh boy, the trolls are out! Love asking for citations/numbers and fools can’t provide anything.”

          But I’m guessing you aren’t good with being held to the same standard you try to hold other people to.

        • Oh, Timmy. I am not the one who made the assertion that the vast majority were or were not FFLs. I don’t know. But the author did. And he did so in publishing this article. He should cite his source or state that it his personal belief. Otherwise this bare assertion is meaningless for our cause. Amazing how we can be on the same side of an issue and merely asking that someone support his statement is viewed as an attack. Strange world you live in.

          Put another way, assume Biden said “the vast majority of those selling guns at gun shows are private parties.” We would be right to ask for his source. He would be wrong to reply with “you prove the vast majority of those selling guns at gun shows are not private parties.” We could reject that and laugh at him, as we now laugh at you.

        • Can you cite a “source” for what your wife wore last night? Would anyone be stupid enough to mock you if you couldn’t? The difference between Biden vs. POTG is extensive personal experience.

          I prefer private-party sales and always found the pickings scant at gun shows. Not only are private sellers a minority of tables, but the imbalance becomes enormous when taking into account the contents of the tables. The average dealer has hundreds of guns – either a broad range, or exclusively modern types. The average private seller has a handful of mostly-Fudd crap.

          You can dismiss commenters’ experience as anecdotes, but the simple fact of the matter is that ATF would take down someone trying to offer a dealer spread of guns while also trying to pass himself off as a “private seller”.

        • Ummm…so amazed that the simple request to back up the main point supporting an argument receives so much push back. How dare anyone ask for facts rather than bare assertions. This is what we should require of those on both sides. Instead, you make the same mistake Bloomberg does—your observations are correct without support because of your experience. This does not advance the ball.

          BTW, if what my wife wore last night is ever at issue, she could so testify. That’s the evidence. If someone disagrees they present different evidence. Using you analogy we can simply choose who we like and believe them. Don’t worry about presenting evidence. That is how one loses a public argument.

        • “BTW, if what my wife wore last night is ever at issue, she could so testify. That’s the evidence.”

          Precisely. Her direct personal experience of the fact in question IS the evidence. If you had seen her, and I (for some reason) had also seen her, and your / her word lined up with the evidence of my own eyes, I would absolutely “choose to believe” that over any number of academics, reporters, and politicians (who know nothing about her) stating the contrary.

        • Sorry, Umm…you still don’t get it. Your argument is false. A one time incident-what someone wore once—can be subject to good evidence of observation. One man’s take on whether the “vast majority” of sellers at the thousands of gun shows throughout the country in the modern era are FFLs is anecdotal at best. An ATF agent could testify that he goes to hundreds of gun shows a year and the “vast majority” are private sellers. You know what wins the day? Actual evidence. Numbers. Stats. TTAG provides none in this case.

          To make the apples-to-apples comparison, your argument is as follows: I saw a woman thousands of times, and she often had a green dress. Therefore the “vast majority” (51%, 60%, 80%, 95%???) of days she wore a green dress.

          Anecdotal evidence can be better or worse, but it is still anecdotal and is easily rejected.

        • Why do the antis hate private sales? Specifically because they’re untracked and untrackable, making your demands for “Actual evidence. Numbers. Stats.” absurd. I’ve also never read a double-blind, peer-reviewed study proving that sodium chloride is saltier than sucrose, yet I’m able to function and eat absent the Ivory Tower’s “expertise” on the subject.

          If I kept abreast of fashion trends, saw that all the models were wearing green dresses this year; read the same in all the fashion mags, and the ONLY arguments against wearing green came from ideologues who hate, oppose, and ignore fashion (a strict order of cloistered nuns, for instance) it would indeed be logical to conclude that green dresses are “in” this year.

          I’ve been to many gun shows all over the country. Some things are different, and some things aren’t. At every one, there is at least one volume retailer (but usually more like 5-10+) who has more guns (certainly more evil black guns) than every private seller at the show put together. There are also plenty of LEOs who would be all over a private seller who offered anywhere near that number of guns, and then, of course, there are plenty of places (including here in gun-friendly NV) where there are zero non-FFL transfers period.

        • Ummm, if you say so. Out of curiosity I checked, and Giffords claims that 22% of firearm owners bought their last firearm without a background check. It cites Matthew Miller, Lisa Hepburn & Deborah Azrael, “Firearm Acquisition Without Background Checks,” Annals of Internal Medicine 166, no. 4 (2017): 233–239. So there are some stats. Now we can debate it. Your position is “Dan Zimmerman has been to lots of gun shows and he says that the vast majority are FFLs”. Which is more easily rejected by someone trying to decide on n the topic?

          Again, your analogy is deeply flawed but highlights your error. How you personally taste something is not evidence of anything but your own experience. I understand you believe your side because it matches your experience. Problem is, other side does the same thing. Your argument that no evidence is necessary because you know the truth does nothing to win public support for less firearm restrictions. It is as easily dismissed as you dismiss the other side’s arguments that are presented without facts. You only hinder the effort with this attitude. I reject your premise that we do not need to support our arguments. That’s how you start winning the argument rather than taken steps back every time a new party comes in. We have to be better at this than you are prepared to be. Best of luck. You get the last word. I believe any rational person who wants to win will agree with my position.

        • First, that which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

          Regarding gun shows, the vast majority of people at gun shows are clearly non-FFL licensees.

          Otherwise the promoter/venue would cease having gun shows, they depend on thousands of non-FFL licensees (humans) attending their shows.

          And we have all observed hundreds, if not thousands of private transactions either inside the show, immediately outside or in the parking lot.

          An individual walks up to the table, and says “I have this to sell” the dealer says “I can give you X”, individual declines. A bystander says “That’s just what I want, I’ll give you 2X”, private sale completed between individuals.

          A fellow sitting on his pick up truck tailgate in the parking lot sees a guy walking across the lot carrying a rifle, says “hey what have you got?”

          “Well, I got this rifle I’m looking to sell for X”. Pick up truck guy says “Wow, a nickel plated Jammamatic in .221 Fireball, I’ve been looking for one of those for years, I have cash”

          I will freely admit that I have engaged in many such private transactions at gun shows, the situation of having an opportunity to conduct multiple private sales of firearms at gun shows is what is known colloquially as “the gun show loophole” and describes how individuals with no qualifications but cash can easily arm themselves without regard to their status as a prohibited person because of past criminal activity or mental illness.

        • Gunluvr,
          True – some people believe anything couched in the formalities of the Core Academic Principle (actually, a logical fallacy) of “Appeal to Authority”.

          I’ve often thought that there is nothing more toxic to credibility and rational debate than insistence on offering opinions in matters of fact, but the opposite extreme is actually worse: trying to sway the gullible by throwing out “specific facts” and “hard numbers” that are obviously false or outside their knowledge.

          The fact that they’re coming from haters of the subject matter who attack the veil of uncertainty surrounding private sales, then in the same breath purport to “prove” their argument with “exact” figures about everything behind the veil just makes it all the more transparently laughable.

      • Question. If you are traveling interstate, can you buy a firearm from a shop in the state you are traveling through? I do know some states, such as New York and others, will have their own additional restrictions.

        • I did so around 15 years ago, don’t know if it’s changed, and a friend tried to do so here more recently. The answer at that time was that you can buy a rifle or a shotgun in a state not your state of residence, but not a handgun.

    • the vast majority of sales are from dealers…after all, they’re there to make money and volume is key…but there are private sales, as well…but one look at that crowd reveals them to be a pretty benign bunch…just a bunch of gun buffs buying and selling among themselves…no real threat to anybody…criminals do not obtain guns this way and often laugh at the suggestion they would…way too public….

  17. i wonder:
    will there be a mad scramble by everybody to pin and weld a long enough muzzle device on their whatever length barrel ar pistol to make it over 26 inches long so it no longer qualifies as a “pistol” but rather a “firearm”

    • ATF was well under way to ridding themselves of many restrictions under the Trump administration…until the regime change…now they’re going out of their way to please their new masters…

  18. Ok the “door kicking” bit is sarcasm. I forget to add that sometimes and get into these little TTAG beefs (from the strategic ttag’rs waiting to strike) either calling me a punk, gravy seal and now a fudd. So to be clear, I don’t think “the blue helmet door kickers” are coming.

    Now let’s talk about assumptions. Apparently, I’m a “tax paying” lemming that waits in long lines at Costco and I’m totally unprepared. Subservient by nature, bending the knee to my technocrat overlords. Got it…

    Or maybe I’m well provisioned (not with an underground bunker and 3 million cans of beans). I might even have land somewhere remote with adequate shelter, a well, tree stands, feeders and even a grass strip. Sadly I might pay taxes on that but that’s the cost of being a sucker I guess…. Shame I’ll be giving this all up when the reparations bill passes. 😞

    Now my assumptions. Correct me if I’m wrong. If memory serves me, you’re a guy that works retail in a gunshop, lives in an RV, and has a self admitted history of substance abuse. There also could be a long beard involved too.

    Now it could be you had your “moment of clarity” and you have all the answers. Or maybe you like to pull the cork and tell us all how to right the wrongs of this evil world. I surely don’t know…

    You remind a lot of a ttag’r named “serge.” I haven’t see him on here in a while (not accusing you of being him btw). He used to pounce on my sarcastic comments too.

    In the mean time you’ll have to forgive me for not losing sleep or developing an ulcer every time they prop up some career political clown in front of a camera telling me he’s gonna take my guns away.

    One thing I can say with certainty is that you have a picture next to your handle which indicates you’re a big time TAGG playa and take this blog way more serious than I do.

    So carrying on.

    • never underestimate the opposition…or their determination…it’s a mistake many make…I call them the “OH,..they’d never do that”… crowd…..yes, they would, if they could, because they feel they should….

  19. The 80% lower should be a project option, in every high school shop class. That is another way to teach the 2A to new up and coming voters. Why should adults be the only ones to have fun? A 16 year old shop student should have the same kind of rewarding experience as well.

    But because the “gun community” is so stupid, so short sighted, they have missed an opportunity to begin educating the non gun owning population. Less than 1% of the entire US popuation even knows the 80% lower exist.

    This is an “Information War” against guns. And the anti civil rights side has stuck first. Sadly the many negative comments on TTAG about “build parties” for 80% lowers only shows many on TTAG at least agree with Joe Biden. They said “that is illegal You can’t do that”.

    So was having butt sex in your own home.

    Now it seems the “gun community” are happy to agree with the goverment. That you can’t build a gun in your own home. Or in a friends shop. And if you can’t have the 80% lower build in your own home. Then why should you be able to have a 3D printer in your own home to make a gun?

  20. The whole myth that “Laws Prevent Crime” is ridiculous. Laws Prevent Nothing! Laws are simply the means by which a society uses to punish those that transgress the law via fiscal and/or penal repercussions. Nothing more.
    Laws don’t even reduce criminal actions. It’s against the law to drive over the speed limit, yet thousands violate that law every day of the week. Sometimes their caught and sometimes they’re not.

    The simple fact is that there will be massive non compliance to Biden’s EA’s. Hell, I’m even tempted to put stocks on my AR pistols. What’s the difference between going to jail for a brace and going to jail for an unregistered SBR? The length of time you’ll spend in jail. Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb IMO.

    • just learn to keep your mouth shut and be somewhat secretive…and you’ll probably be fine…have to wonder how many of those illegally converted AR’s from the 80’s are still out there squirreled away somewhere?….”don’t ask-don’t tell” still works on a number of levels

  21. Re: “The only industry that can’t be sued”

    Uh, Joe, you’re currently injecting tens of millions of Americans with an experimental, untested vaccine whose manufacturer has been granted blanket legal immunity by Congress.

  22. So many getting all out of shape here, the “office holder” really has no idea what he is talking about, he’s being fed his lines like a poor actor. The left is firing the first shot and we gun owners fight among ourselves. Lets pick on Harrold ’cause he said politly, sheesh the socialists have nothing to worry about. I am not pushing some bravado but I also don’t expect storm troopers at the door, the leftists will use more subtle tactics ,banking, credit, tax liens, pressure at work,school and church. Their means will be visible but promoted as righteous by the media, public shame is a strong weapon against you, your family even neighbors. The political hierarchy must be culled, remove the RINOs elect HONEST folks from local level right up to the presidency before we have no country left to save. (oh shit, I just fell off my high horse).

    • turning us against each other often works well too…ATF has been promoting their “confidential tip line” for awhile now…can rewards and bounties be far behind?

  23. Biden is completely wrong if he says the firearms industry is the only $ billion industry that cannot be sued. Let’s start from the top here…and look at the U.S. pharmaceutical industry, worth SEVERAL $$ BILLIONS, and now cannot be sued for drugs an vaccines that can kill you. Congress has even provided a special fund that can provide victims or their families with financial compensation in the event pharma drugs are responsible for physical damage or death, BECAUSE the pharma industry cannot be sued (but because Congress bears the burden of liability for passing this insane law that relieves pharma companies of all liability for their toxins.


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