The Biden administration is in possession of nearly one billion records detailing American citizens’ firearm purchases, far more than Congress and the public has been aware of, according to new information from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.
The ATF disclosed to lawmakers that it manages a database of 920,664,765 firearm purchase records, including both digital and hard copy versions of these transactions. When a licensed gun store goes out of business, its private records detailing gun transactions become ATF property and are stored at a federal site in West Virginia. The practice has contributed to the fears of gun advocacy groups and Second Amendment champions in Congress that the federal government is creating a national database of gun owners, which violates longstanding federal statutes.
Rep. Michael Cloud (R., Texas), who led an investigation into the ATF database following a November Free Beacon report that the Biden administration had stockpiled records of more than 54 million gun transactions in 2021, expressed shock at the number of gun records being kept by the federal government. Cloud maintains that the ATF’s database could be exploited by the Biden administration to surveil American gun owners as it pursues new restrictions on firearms.
— Adam Kredo in Biden Admin Has Records on Nearly One Billion Gun Sales
LOL you mean there were people who ever doubted that this was the case? Soup-boi scumbags and their (mostly) right wing enablers/apologists. BaCk tHe bLuE hurr hurr hurr!!
Blowbag nathan is the kind of azzhat who’ll stoop to use anything to broad brush law enforcement. By his own words nathan’s reasoning is no different than a twerp who sees criminals misusing firearms and uses it to broad brush gun owners and those who continue to support pro 2A orgs.
My money says nathan is all hat and no cattle and should the need arise would trip over himself trying to dial 911.
As for this topic…No Surprise, it’s the nature of Gun Control.
“As for this topic…No Surprise, it’s the nature of
Gun Controlgovernment”.What’s your favorite flavor of boot polish, Debbie?
good comeback kid
Some of you will still be backing ing the blue when they kick in your door and shoot your wife and dog serving the due process free red flag warrant…..You’d do well to remember that without police liberal politicians are just stupid people with bad ideas who can be safely ignored.
Most of you are missing the upside: If there are almost a billion transaction records just from dealers who went out of business the total number of guns in circulation is far over a billion making gun control utterly and completely hopeless.
“ohh noo” (voice of glum).
Better yet, voice of Saturday Night Live character Mr. Bill!
–
*snicker*… 😉
Suprise? Not really. The title should have been…
Told ya so! ATF Has Been Keeping Records on Hundreds of Millions of Firearms Transactions
Might be time for a patriotic Stuxnet to render those unlawful records useless…I’m sure someone out there who’s capable has thought of it.
Similar to my thought. Where’s Vinnie The Torch hiding out these days?
The vast majority of those records are on microfilm and are not digitized, so no virus can ever attack them. Electronic records are a recent innovation.
That code targets firmware on highly specific electromechanical controllers and no computer code is going to get rid of hard copies.
with a sub-title: “We done geeve a sheet about no stanking mufukin laws like the FOP Act that strictly prohibits the keeping of firearms database files or registrations of private citizen’s property? It only says we are not allowed to do this. Which Never means we can’t?
.40 cal Booger nails it. Maybe 20 years ago, I hadn’t ever given it a thought. Today, knowing what I know about computers, I strongly suspected that the ATF knew who had what, and when, and where they got it from. This article merely confirms that suspicion. Almost no one ever purges old data from their computers, least of all the government.
What “suspicion”? Everyone familiar with the law knew to a factual certainty dealers going out of business were required to turn over records not older than 20 years.
Certainly not a shock, but I am pretty sure the people (individuals) who actually performed the transcriptions committed a felony in doing so. I am sure I remember 30-40 years ago the president signed a law PROHIBITING federal agents from participating in any registration scheme, and that all 4473 records the Feds had were to be erased in 24 (?) hours. But before we hang them, what a GOLDEN opportunity!!! I want research performed into 1) how much the taxpayer has paid for the assembly and maintenance of those records (guessing well into the tens of BILLIONS), and 2) what crimes have been either prevented or solved thanks to those records (suspect not one, not ever.)!!?? I mean chapter and verse, the names of the guilty and dates of the rapes and robberies, surely you can show me ONE!!??!!?? Then, of course, we will need to seek (we will never find) the name of the individual who directed/authorized those expenditures of taxpayer funds, and exactly how he/she profited from that expenditure. After that, we can go ahead with the castrations and subsequent executions.
I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised at all. Not just in what Biden does but in the fact that this can be done. Anyone with any level of common sense can read the 4473 form and understand what it is. Not to mention online cloud storage for silencer purchases. If it were not Biden, it would be someone else. Thinking this is not happening after filling out that form is the height of naivete. This is the purpose of the ATF. To manage such things.
This has certainly been going on for much longer than the Biden (mis)administration. Much, much longer.
Ever since the original organized registration with the 1934 NFA merely posing as a Tax because they knew it violated the 2nd/A even back when more people were libertarian pro-2nd/A than today. But it was also a disarmament scam in disguise because the 200 dollar tax stamp was quite prohibiting to the average citizen, and it evolved in another way making the punishment for Not paying it today is a prison sentence beyond a violation of cruel and unusual punishment statutes. And certainly far above what happens for failing to pay all other ‘taxes’ which is virtually no punishment except eventually paying what you owe.
Let’s not forget that the Ruby Ridge murders were supposedly about a sawed-off shotgun’s missing tax stamp, which is not $200, as I recall, but $5. The real reason was forcing a man to obey or killing him in the process. A man who was already so sick of such shit that he had moved to the woods with no contact with the outside world, just wanting to be left alone, pursuing him and his friends and family right unto death. ATF should have been disbanded that day, and terminal investigations opened into FBI.
Clinton got caught keeping records on purchases and they made him destroy the records. If you believe that they destroyed the records, I have a bridge to sell you…..uh oh, it collapsed.
This has nothing to do with 4473s which until recently didn’t even have firearm make model or serial number info on them. These are dealer transaction records not turned
over to ATF or FBI unless as part of a specific investigation or when a dealer goes out of business. Completely different records than the 4473s and data routinely transmitted to NICS.
There is no way in the world that fedzilla would pass up the opportunity to vacuum up firearm transaction data.
Sure, prior to something like 1990, fedzilla would have satisfied itself with the ATF grabbing all of the federal firearm licensees’ “bound books” and stuffing all of those paper transaction records in some storeroom somewhere, most likely never to see the light of day. And they may have even recorded simple details of background checks in some digital database.
At some point in the last 20 years or so, I have no doubt that fedzilla began recording the information of background checks in a digital database. And I am nearly certain that fedzilla began scanning current paper transactions records. (When I say, “scanning”, I am not talking about creating a digital photo of the paper transaction–I am talking about using form and text recognition software to create a digital data record of the analog paper record and entering that into an easily searchable digital database.) The only open question in that regard is how far into the past fedzilla scanned “old” paper transactions.
Additionally in the last 20 years or so, I am virtually certain that fedzilla began recording proxy information about firearm transactions and ownership through telephone call records and credit card transactions. In this case I am referring to fedzilla getting records of the entities who interacted which is a proxy (although subject to some inaccuracy) for firearm ownership.
Finally, in the last 15 years or so, I am virtually certain that fedzilla began collecting information on Internet searches and website visits that involved firearms, ammunition, and firearm components. Similar to the telephone call records and credit card transactions, this is proxy information subject to some inaccuracy. Given the much greater amount of data available per website visit/interaction, however, the accuracy of this data could be stunningly accurate and indicate who has/had which type and caliber of firearms. (For obvious reasons the accuracy of this information could degrade every so slightly over time as people decommission, give away, or sell their firearms in private transactions.)
The only open question in my mind is whether the federal entities who record that data actually share the scope of their data mining with members of Congress.
Yep, all those data points pushed through realtime analytics software tools will easily provide a profile of every armed citizen and their risk profile to the deep state. You can be darn sure that this posting (and all firearms forums) gets automatically analyzed by a textural threat model and added to peoples profile. Big Brother would be envious.
I have a collectors’ license. Knowing that many handguns made even more than 100 years ago are still sitting in their original box – along with original ammo, I am sure that the gov does, also. I am sure that they have lists as far as they can go back, maybe even the parts you buy. In Ca, we have to go through a process(or did) to get ammo. I am sure that if you buy ammo for a caliber of firearm you do NOT have, there is a red flag somewhere.
My collectables get cleaned and tested, if a small “self loading”(I don’t call them automatic) handgun doesn’t cycle/eject correctly with ball ammo of different strengths, I get springs and free up the action(all self taught), usually to go back into the safe for another day. They are capable and can do some damage – as the ATF knows.
A firearm for show is about the same as a vehicle that does not run – why would you collect one?
What about states like Illinois that require FOID Firearms Owner and Identification cards when purchasing firearms and even ammo? That’s been going on for decades? I haven’t bought anything for quite a while so i never saw this but someone told me he filled out an electronic 4473 recently at the counter of a firearms store? Well WTF then? If that’s true, pretty soon they won’t’ even need to personally visit every FFL anymore? Except to shut them down, which is happening more frequently from what I hear in my commie state. OBTW, the big one coming soon,this summer, to a flea market or gun show near you is threatening seizures criminal charges of private sellers who are selling a table full of Private Collection guns, but No FFL? And they can’t ‘define’ a limit to how many constitute the difference between requiring an FFL under punishment of law, or not as just the sale of private property? The hard answer would be if you are operating at a gunshow as a legal business. And therein is the twisted Fiat Factor. That’s something almost impossible to equate in standarized regulation. What’s the difference between an affluent private gun collector who might buy or sell hundreds of firearms a year an entire collection at i time. and a really small ffl guy working out of his basement selling much less than that?? I just heard they got two guys hard in my county and didn’t they just nail an AMISH Farmer in PA for this? And didn’t undercover agents at gun shows somewhere last year when they had the rat up their asses over to many citizens making their own guns with 80% receivers bust some quick thinking entrepreneurs were buying in bulk from manufacturers and selling the NON-Firearm 80% accessories for a little profit?
If you take All their anti-Constitutional below radar Deprivation of Rights efforts to disarm everybody and compare them to what LITTLE fucking counter-efforts We the slatternly Sheeple sheepishly return…
You can fucking tell The 2nd is going to be lost in space sooner than we think. Talking shit is one thing but throwing it back at them and making them step in it is another. The untenable insult to injury is that they even make us fucking pay taxes for our own rights deprivations!
I saw a report several years back concerning that zillion dollar facility in the NW (Oregon?), including that it was designed and built to have the ability and capacity to record and maintain every phone conversation on the PLANET, for the next 1000 (one thousand) years.
Good lord man get the paranoia under control. Neither you me or the federal government can get firearm data from credit card records because credit card transactions do not contain any specific data on what was purchased. We couldn’t upload that info to our merchant accounts if we wanted to because POS terminals have no provision to do it.
NO SHIT!!
I’d wager that there are a 100’s of billions of records of .GOV hoovering up various purchase transactions related to guns, ammo, scopes, accessories.
There is no such thing as privacy anymore.
We’ve left our kids an all-encompassing surveillance state.
Seems like there should be a market demand for easy-to-use turnkey anonymity/privacy software and hardware solutions but it’s not happening. Every day this non-privacy environment exists is another day that younger people consider it “normal” and an ever increasing number of people that don’t realize what they are missing.
When history is all written, the most lasting legacy of 9/11 will be the loss of privacy in all nations and the increase of .GOV power.
“Seems like there should be a market demand for easy-to-use turnkey anonymity/privacy…”
That used to be something called cash. I think it would be a mistake to look for that in software.
People have been looking for privacy for thousands of years. That’s why the mystique of secret societies. Ultimately, the secret is the one you never tell anyone.
The only guns that are not part of any kind of registry are the ones never transfered using NICS/4473. That is the reason for so much attention by the left for universal background checks. Serial numbers are required for this to work just like public compliance is. It is not about safety. It’s political corruption.
On to the real reason some commie oriented states are looking to ban 80% kits. Doesn’t matter as much for me as they have a pretty good record of what I have regardless but can’t have unlicensed unknown dirty peasants with pistols or rifles.
80% kits are the boogeyman in the room. They make little difference in the scheme of things, but they use the term “ghost guns” as if this is new – then they dump firearms that were manufactured without a number, those that were sold without records, those where the serial number was worn or ground and then “raised” with acid or other means, and then those that they could not bring back a serial number. Only the guns that could not get back the serial number are illegal.
Imagine all the old guns without serial numbers that got destroyed by the gun grabbers because they had the power to ram it through.
killing your personal privacy goes hand in hand with disarmament. Cash still works well enough in private transfers but ubiquitous facial recognition surveillance and Drone air spying under the specious notion of ‘public safety’ & ‘intensive crime prevention’ video data bases in growing nationwide County Sherrif departments will start to smother these transactions until they can abolish cash altogether and other private money like metals and do universal bit coin. but not YOUR private anonymous ‘coin’. It will be a type of digital ‘Fed Coin’. Of which they will always have a back door to stroll through any time they feel like without a warrant like they do with your credit reports and bank accounts already.
Next November midterms will be about the last chance to prevent all this from becoming an irreversible future Shock. I’m going to my PAC group lunch in a few minutes… to work on getting out the vote strategies.
I would believe that “bitcoin” and “fedcoin” are the same thing. If they really cared, they would stop it. Just the fact they are not stopping it is enough for me to believe they have a back door to the controlling software.
The Internet itself is the “back door”- it’s a feature, not a bug.
Demonstrably meaningful security and privacy is empowered in the absence of electricity- not dependent upon it. Anything that ostensibly only works when the power is on is untrustworthy.
Well here’s a starter suggestion…
For online dealers, provide purchasers with an option that their account/order history can be encrypted on their systems and can only be read with a time sensitive password provided by the customer.
For instance after you order something from Brownells, after shipping it out, they would not know what you ordered (or be able to provide it even if subpoenaed) unless the customer (you) provides them with a passcode.
If you call up about an order, you can give them a passcode that reveals the account and when you are complete and the query is closed they would need to get another password to open it again.
Of coarse all of this is for naught if you’re on a typical browser with no security and the .GOV is keeping track of all your webpage visits.
Cash doesn’t make you anonymous at a licensed dealer’s shop. You have to produce an ID, and fill in paperwork that defeats any anonymity that cash would otherwise provide.
Numerous criminals and pro straw purchasers are anonymous there. They use the perfect “real ID” pouring out of China on the dark web. They are who they say they are.,
I remember when families and friends would go to the airport gates to send off or greet people. I remember when I could get on a plane without having to go through a metal detector.
I remember those days. Also remember my Dad handing me a long canvass sleeve when he came off the plane from his tour in Vietnam. I soon learned what cosmalene (sp) was.
Yep, I remember going up to the roof to watch the jet take off, after getting my young nephew situated with a flight attendant. I knew which seat was his because I could see a hand reaching front and back to slide the window shades up and down, always a curious kid.
No way to get up there now because they’re afraid I may have a Stngr under my coat, or some such nonsense. Pfft, can see nearly as much from the top deck of the parking garage, an additional couple hundred yards would be nothing remarkable for that kind of equipment.
Privacy equals freedom.
Today’s society will not be remembered well in the history books.
Another part of this question includes that I have bought quite a number of new guns in my life, a few dozen of which I have sold or had stolen from me. All of those expensive, illegal, and downright STUPID records have no clue who owns those guns now, what are the records supposed to be good for?
“what are the records supposed to be good for?”
starting point for any investigation.
For coming to you and throwing you in a holding cell until they finish investigating which will entail confiscating all guns you currently have that they can find. If you remember what you did with the one in question you might get tge others back in 6 months as opposed to 6 years. That’s what.
It’s called the administrative state. Obese bureaucrats and clueless “experts” think they know how to run your life better than you. You can thank Woodrow Wilson.
Well the council of foreign relations and their various previous incarnations really, Wilson was essentially a nobody prior to their support.
In October, 2009, this was exposed in a document published by JPFO and other organizations. It’s good that it’s getting more visibility. http://jpfo.org/articles-assd/melson-open-letter.htm
It was also published by The Truth About Guns: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-etrace-revealed-backdoor-national-firearms-registration-scheme/
Ask me how I know…….
Anytime you fill out a NICS check they save that info too. Can’t tell me they don’t! When a shooting happens and magically there is a list of hands that bought and transfered the gun? There is a reason it’s a felony to scratch the serial numbers off.
Who’s surprised? Especially now with slow Joe n the Dims labeling lawful gat owner’s terrorist’s. I’ve been into all this less than a dozen years. It never ceases to amaze me how clueless a lot of gat owner’s “appear”…
Only surprise is I rarely if ever see a gang banger charged for obliterating a serial number when their “ghost gun” is seized on their arrest. Granted yes can be hard to prove they did it but why have the crime if it is not enforceable/useful?
“Granted yes can be hard to prove they did it but why have the crime if it is not enforceable/useful?”
plea bargain buffer. enables the prosecutor to say, “we’ll drop these lesser charges if you’ll plead guilty” rather than “we’ll drop one of these serious charges if you’ll plead guilty to the other serious charges”, so nobody accuses the prosecutor of being soft on crime.
rant I would think that is exactly what would be done but even on initial arrest to indictment I very rarely see it in the charges and typically it’s the possession of a firearm by a person prohibited and/or unlicensed possession charges dropped often with possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony that get plea bargained out over here.
FWW, I bought a 6″ Python in 1970, and sold it to a friend whose name I do not recall in or about 1975. What are those records good for, after a couple years? Same could be said about a bunch of guns, just under MY account. I bet most people on the site could say the same. If such records are being kept, someone should be prosecuted for fraud, waste, and abuse, since there is no conceivable purpose for them, valid or otherwise, it is simply money pitched into the shitter.
“there is no conceivable purpose for them”
sure there is. the people behind all this see themselves as the humans and everyone else as cattle put here to serve them, to be eliminated if they don’t. when they can, they’ll use the records as a starting point to deal with anyone who MIGHT be able to oppose them, just on general principles. “your grandfather had this gun. where is it? you’ll be on reduced rations until you hand it over.”
Not hard to trace many gun purchases. They contact the manufacturer trace number or database, manufacturer gives them the distributor who gives them the FFL who gives them the name of the mass shooter in most of those cases since the shooters usually buy guns straight from an FFL Not much mystery to it.
If the ATF is comfortable breaking federal law as a federal law-enforcement body then they cannot expect us to abide by unconstitutional laws and rulings that they choose to enforce.
Yeah, except that we go to jail. They don’t.
the atf is just doing what it’s told. the ones behind this see the rules as being for you, not for them.
Cannot see what the fuss is about’.
All governments keep this kind of record, or a least they should and there would be absolutely no point in ny kind of licensing applicarions for anything if they were not. From driving licenses, to dog licences , to wedding certificates to passport applications they are all,out there in an archive somewhere.
Every time you use your credit of Direct Debit Card that transaction is recorded pretty much for all time as are your phone bills, and untility bills When you can now get a storage factility that can store multi, TB’S of info on a gadget that will fit in the palm of you hand all your relevant PERSONAL data that from birth -to-death to can be stored on a memory device no larger than your fingernail death and therfe is absolutely NOTHING that you can do about it!!
Ever thought about how the CRINIMAL word would operate in a CASHLESS Society? And we are getting there. SWEDEN for instance is taking a lead in the WESTERN WORLD, with 75% 0f allpurchases being made through Digital-Media but others are not far behind.
In parts of China this is already happening as well where even sex-workers have to accept digital payments. Think about that! Every however casual purchase of drugs will be recorded and at some point be explained. AS I belong to a centrailsed National Health Service my medical records can be ‘called-up’ within about 30seconds by authorised persons from anywhere in the world with a broadband connection simply be entering my relevant details,
Yup. Look at what happened after Jan 6- Chase, Capital One, and all the other credit companies couldn’t wait to give up the names of their customers who bought anything in the DC area around that time to Fedgov. Don’t think for a second that if the ATF asked, those same companies wouldn’t hesitate to rat out any and every customer who has ever ordered anything from Midway, Brownells, or any of the other online gun accessory retailer.
@Albery Hall: You say you can’t see what all the fuss is about, but then you give a dozen examples of why there’s a fuss, from a monolithic state-run health system tracking your every nutritional decision to China’s population-controlling social credit scheme to vast, international data collection of personal information enabling crimes like identity theft, credit card fraud, and more.
You claim to be in favor of governments keeping records of firearms purchases and ownership, and from your statement about belonging to a centralized national health service, I assume you live in a country other than the United States. You undoubtedly have different laws in your country, and you are welcome to them. In the United States, the 2nd Amendment protects citizens’ right to keep and bear arms without infringement. Record-keeping of the kind described in the article is considered an infringement by many in the U.S., including me, and can easily lead to other kinds of infringements: confiscation of lawfully-owned weapons, new roadblocks to suppress lawful purchases and ownership, government watch lists, imposition of fines and fees, or simply treating lawful gun owners as disfavored individuals and banning their access to ordinary aspects of life (not unlike the ongoing attempt to treat individuals who have declined the COVID vaccine like second class citizens). All of this is WRONG, and all of it is, unfortunately, very possible with the kind of record keeping you appear to support.
So there is a fuss, and you should understand why there is one. You are entitled to believe that the 2A should be eliminated, curtailed, or infringed, but an awful lot of U.S. citizens who are getting quite tired of this nonsense would disagree.
“You claim to be in favor of governments keeping records of firearms purchases and ownership”
he is. the problem is that “government” has been replaced by “rulers” and is no longer what he presumes it to be.
to Albert
You really cannot expect these ignorant U.S. Hillbillies to understand that the U.S. is really not much different in terms of keeping a digital foot print on everything we do from the time we get up to the time we go to bed. Our black box computers and cell phones track our every move throughout the day. The U.S. government damn well knows who owns guns just from the forums they log on to, the purchases they make, the jabber they have on their cell phones and e-mails etc, etc.
There is really nothing the U.S. government does not know about its citizens. Why do you think they ran the great American Hero Edward Snowden out of the country? He really blew the whistle on them. And now they are about to extradite the great World Hero Julian Assange and lock him in a deep dark hole for the rest of his life. (so much for freedom of the press)
The difference between us hillbillies and the utopian deceivers is that we actually retain the means to physically stop our government from overstepping its bounds as proscribed by our constitution.
It is curious how the elite utopians continually demand that the power that rightfully belongs to the people should be removed by force and transferred to tyrannical autocats “for our own good”.
It would be humorous if it wasn’t so malevolent.
Yep, malevolent is the right word. This is the reason the American people have so little trust in any government institutions, less trust of Congress, and no trust at all in the legacy media, if you have more than a room temperature IQ anyway.
Lots of people here who seem to think all kinds of information is included in a credit card transaction that isn’t……That said the point here which you aren’t getting is that it is illegal under federal law for the ATF to compile a registry.
and? Americans are sheep….. too many rats and geys to do anything about it…. might as well turn em in…
Really? Why don’t you just go on out the door and head up the street, ransacking every home along the way so you can confiscate those naughty guns? I don’t think it will take you more than a few minutes to complete your life’s work.
if you had told people twenty, ten, five years ago that we would be where we are now, they would have laughed in your face and loudly declared that the armed citizens of the united states would never stand for it and would fill the streets in rebellion.
so what do we have in the streets now? antifa, blm, and fbi drones.
the rebellion has been cancelled.
“so what do we have in the streets now?”
TRUCKERS!
https://100percentfedup.com/breaking-situation-intensifies-tow-truck-drivers-refuse-to-move-truckersforfreedom-convoy-blocking-canada-us-border-police-threaten-to-arrest-truckers-and-seize-their-equipment-video/
that really isn’t adequate for the situation we face. the truckers presume the “authorities” are listening, but they’re not.
which is also why the. gov geys want all white men gone….. white men and a few black men are the only ones who would stand up to them….
“It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers-out of unorthodoxy.”
George Orwell – 1984
Everyone kind of already knew that. Both that it is illegal, and that they probably did it anyway in some fashion.
I hope this leads to meaningful reform, but I will only believe it when I see it (maybe).
I thought it was illegal for the Feds to keep a log of all gun sales. I think it was 1935 when the Nazis had complete firearm registration. Shortly after that came confiscation.
How many of you bought ammo on your credit card? Walmart wanted to scan my Drivers License back when they sold ammo. I did not give it to them, and paid in cash. They did not question my age…
This is unconstitutional.
only if you make it unconstitutional. when dealing with the people behind all this, it’s not the piece of paper that protects you.
No it might be illegal under federal law but there is nothing in the constitution that says the government can’t maintain records.
The advances in technology have caused what once seemed to be the innocuous practice of BATFE assuming possession of FFL records that would enable the tracing of guns that allegedly had actually been used in crime to become totalitarian. It is one thing to have these records available to BATFE agents who must sift through them by hand. It is quite another thing to have BATFE supercomputers image and digitize the records so that character recognition software can create a database of every gun transaction that enables the BATFE to know exactly what guns everyone owns in real time.
We must either scrap the background check requirements or find a way that some trusted third party could have custody of the records that would be employed only for legitimate purposes. Since murderers seldom abandon their guns at the scene of the crime, it would seem that there isn’t any legitimate justification for a firearms database.
Well, fudge, I guess this blows the old estimates of 400- 500 million firearms in civilian hands out the window.
Shannon (t)Watts and her harpies are gonna be on a rampage trying to
intimidatescare more people leading up to the midterms (cue the standard stock photo of the pinched face old prune wearing a Mom’s red shirt).Perhaps it is time to take the ATF out of the modern computer age. Limits on the number and size of hard drives, the number and speed of network cards allowed for the entire agency, no USB ports, or Bluetooth connectivity, no internet. And just to be sure, no data services contracts and a major cut to their budget.
In the end, the best answer is just to end the ATF.
I doubt ATF has anything not duplicated in the FBI.
“On Sunday, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) pushed for the federal government to allocate $1.5 billion to fund new gun control actions by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF).”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/01/30/chuck-schumer-pushes-1-5-billion-gun-control/
All the more reason to build from scratch. They can’t take what they don’t know about.
I’m in no way trying to downplay the information in the OP, but it’s one thing for “someone” to know about 920+ million firearms records seeking transfers, It’ll be quite another for that person or surrogates to try to round them all up.
Point taken. But, you’ll admit that the first step in taking them all away, is identifying the people who have them. The bad guys have taken that first step.
You are assuming an astonishing level of competence to our government.
“It’ll be quite another for that person or surrogates to try to round them all up.”
they won’t. what will happen is one day you’ll wake up and your internet is cut and your phone is dead. your bank account will be locked and your credit/debit cards cancelled. your drivers’ license will be suspended and your business permits revoked. and they’ll sit back and laugh at you.
Have always said you can decline my American express, my .45 is a different matter entirely.
who/what will you shoot? the atm? the grocery clerk? the dmv clerk? that won’t touch the ones behind all this, they won’t even know.
Hopefully nobody but I WILL get whatever I went out after. By the time it reaches that point I will not be the only person in that situation. The ones behind it will know and if they are smart enough, doubt it, they will be getting nervous.
By the way nobody ever asked for my driver’s license in a combat zone
This is not new news the ATF has been keeping the turned in records for decades but is not allowed to computerize them YET.
So what if they do?
Makes not a lick of difference if they do or do not because registration is not even necessary at all and the ATF knows it. Rather if any category of guns are outright banned or put on the NFA list no one who is still sane would disobey the law and go to prison for 20 years and be fined a 1/4 of million dollars and lose their gun rights for life.
And only a complete Moron would not realize if you kept a banned gun or did not register it as a required NFA weapon you could never sell it, trade it, shoot it or use it in a self defense situation. And if you had a fire and the fire department came into your house and saw a banned weapon the cops would be called immediately.
In the 21st Century Big Brother sees everything you do and knows everywhere you go and knows every store you make a purchase, as well as how much money you make, where you work and where you live and yes if you have weapons or not.
Remember if you were dumb enough to log on to this forum or one like it Big Brother already has you on a hit list as a weapons owner.
Committees of Safety / Committees of Correspondence ;
As a student of actual history , including American history , I am [we are] fully aware of the governments illegal possession of materials on it’s citizens , including gun ownership list.
We are fully aware of where it is kept and the security measures in place to safe guard it. [John Browns Raid]
We are not a stupid citizen army, we understand that certain military bases and government facilities would need compromised in the event that the citizens were to retake the power from a tyrannical government.
As proud Americans who will use all avenues of deceit and force to defend the United States Constitution we are prepared to seize OUR institutions, facilities and facilitators to bring about swift and definitive outcomes that will protect and maintain constitutional law and order in this Republic.
As a proud West Virginian I can say all necessary plans are in place within my region to safeguard that the US government respects and protects our Constitution and does not become it’s adversary.
As a West Virginian I was , along with many other citizens of this proud state , fully aware that there was a secret government headquarters under the Greenbrier Hotel at the age of twelve.
David Koresh thought he had freedom of religion too and we all know how well that went for him.
And at Ruby Ridge a mother was shot by an ATF sniper with a baby in her arms. The sniper got a medal and a raise.
So much for your patriotic drum beating. The brain washed storm troopers do what they are told to do. They live only to obey and to kill.
And you’re so desperate to please them…rolling over in the dirt, licking their boots, showing your yellow belly and piddling yourself in an ecstasy of self-abasement. What a disgusting specimen.
Can we just ditch the FOPA of 86 now and at least we’ll re-open the registry? The travel parts are clearly not enforced (looking at NJ) and they obviously haven’t been keeping up with record destruction and privacy protection.
“We” can ditch it all we wish, the government will never do so.
The only way to curtail this infringement is to put teeth into the law. Serious jail time and fines for all involved at the AFT for having any digital records or photographs of records of any firearms transaction. And, in any court case against a citizen, nothing other than paper records can be used as evidence. All digital records will be inadmissible. Maybe the jail time and fines for having an unregistered NFA item would be a good place to start in this new law. Goose, gander, you know the rest.
“The only way to curtail this infringement is to put teeth into the law”
you mean you want someone else to do all that for you.
No. I mean before I/we have to take other more forceful action. Exhaust all possibilities before we go 1776 on them.
“Biden” appears in the Free Beacon post 12 times. The only thing Biden has to do with this is that he’s currently in office. The ATF has been digitizing these records since the early 90’s. They feel it’s in their best interest to have a firearms registry, and because it is illegal to do so openly, they’re going at it from any available angle. They’ve been at it under every administration for several decades, while simultaneously moaning that they’re trying to keep us safe with a hand tied behind their back. The ATF a true example of how the federal government actually comes together for a bipartisan effort: the elite screwing over the people.
Easy fix for that, as I and many others have advocated for many years, cut the ATF budget by 50%, limit their personnel to 50% of current, so that they will be busy taking care of actual business. If they are still showing up where they do not belong, cut another 50%.
:O
…this is my surprised face…
Millions of old paper records are nearly useless. More concerning to me is the use of digital data to identify and label firearm purchases. Analytics no different from what marketers use to target advertising. A debit card transaction may not specifically state what was bought, but with access to one’s online activity (including emails and photos) and related purchases, they could be pretty accurate in guessing exactly what is in your home.
If concerned, pay in cash.
“Millions of old paper records are nearly useless”
solzhenitsyn wrote how the boolsheviks pursued their surrendered opponents for many decades after the revolution, silently knocking them off one by one for many years. he described it as “it was as if someone somewhere each day turned over a new piece of paper, and another old man was arrested.” and that’s exactly what was going on.
sure it would take a long time to process all that paper, but the ones behind all this think in terms of generations. they’d pursue it.
So where are the lawsuits? If the atf has admitted to keeping and organizing these records contrary to federal law, where are fpc ccrkba even the names? Seems like a totally actionable case for a class action suit with millions in said class.
…even the nra… ya I know
What AR? Oh, the one I had along when the boat sunk up in the delta? Boat and gun are still there along with the big gators we were trying to catch. Sombitch ate my dog before we swum out. But if you want to go get it, I’ll show you on the map where to look. Last hurricane may have moved the boat though. No sir, I will not go back up there. Don’t want to sink another boat or have to try to out swim another gator. Let me know what you find up there.
IT’S A OK I STILL HAVE MINE , MOSTLY WORE OUT , GUESS IF CAN FIND , BUY MORE AMMO MAYBE GET TO DRILL HOLES IN SOME MORE PAPER TARGETS .
GOD BLESS AMERICA , ALL GON A BE OK . YA ALL
You have been oft criticized here for using all caps (digital equivalent of screaming like a child). I, for one, are happy and supportive that you use all caps in your comments. Saves me considerable time; when your screen name appears, I simply delete the email.
Carry a torch
Carry a tume
Carry on
Carry forward
Cary Grant
I guess I don’t get it. Why would any government agency keep records of examples of people abiding by the laws of the government. Why don’t they keep records of people who disobey the laws. What they are doing is analogous to recording the people who legally drive through green traffic lights.
Engineer, you don’t get it, because you don’t believe your government is your enemy and not your friend. Don’t you remember the O president talking about gun confiscation? And why would they want gun confiscation? When planning a one world dictatorship, a government would not want bullets flying to get in their way. The 2nd amendment guarantees all the others. But I don’t see people shooting the illegal A T F if they show up at their door.
People need to know their own laws. FFLs should not be consenting to book pictures or flashdrive downloading. If I am not mistaken, it is by their consent. Secondly, a sheriff should be posted when A T F shows up. The law is the law. A T F does what it does, because no one stops them. If they show up at your door, and they don’t have a warrant, then tell them there are no illegal searches and seizures, and they need to leave your property.
What I don’t get is how did the A T F go from being an IRS tax organization, into an illegal organization of snipers?
Seriously, people need to realize, Constitutionally, the people are the government. What we have been taught in school about the 3 branches is wrong. The branches are the arms of the people. Need to reevaluate how we got so coerced.
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