Longtime readers of these pages will certainly remember film maker and ammo analyst extraordinaire, ShootingTheBull410. He was a popular contributor here in years past, with both the ammunition performance tests he’s most known for as well as writing on other topics firearms related.
STB took some time off to deal with some personal issues (see his ‘I’m back!’ video here) and no one could be happier to see him back in the saddle than we are.
Now, after the hiatus, STB’s picking up where he left off, resuming his 9mm Ammo Quest in which he tests some of the post popular 9mm personal defense loads to see which one performs best from the short-barrel 9mm pistols so many people carry these days.
Here he is putting Federal’s HST Micro 150 grain round to the test:
EXCELLENT! He has been missed. There have been a lot of developments in SD ammo since he had to take time off, and his expertise will be most welcome….and entertaining to boot.
I’m not surprised at the failed round, HST quality control has been off. Began about the same time they FORCED retailers to charge us consumers over 50% more for a box of ammo. Federals “reason” for jacking up the price over 50%…we are not LEO’s therefore we don”t deserve that price and instead should pay through the nose for the EXACT same box.
Some retailers stopped selling HST’s to non-LEO’s entirely. Thanks for that Federal Ammo, glad to see where you really stand.
wahhhhhh im sad cuz I don’t get LE pricing, wahhhhhhhhhhhh
Sorry that most LE agencies will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars each annually on ammunition. It’s easy to see from a financial standpoint why they’d target them instead of an individual user who is going to buy a box or two of self defense ammunition per year.
Federal Care Not writes; wahhhhhh im sad cuz I don’t get LE pricing, wahhhhhhhhhhhh
The price increase he speaks of is at the retail level, and on the Internet. Federal “ordered” the retailers to all charge at least $29.99 a box versus the free market price which was usually $17-$19.99. Some retailers as a result ceased non-leo sales. It was a MAJOR dick move, and it was Federal “excuse”. It’s no surprise then a company that meddles like that is now also having quality control problems as well. But at least you got your name correct, Federal cares not…
Do you really think he was speaking of agency level purchase orders? Lol pathetic!
However the mere mention that cops really are not more special than everybody else seems to have gotten your “cop or cop sucker” panties in a big twist.
Looks kinda like they made the 9mm into a 38 special.
STB seems to be a fanboy of the HST downplaying the lack of expansion. Haven’t seen him do that before.
That’s what happens when you drop velocity to what appears to be the threshold for expansion.
I’ve been carrying Winchester “Train and Defend” ammo for a while, would love to see a good test on that for just the reason you mention, they’re 147g and that seems a bit heavy to expect good expansion, but that is supposedly what they’re designed to do, even with shorter barrels.
Good to have you back, STB410!
If I remember correctly, STB410 did test 9 mm Train and Defend. He concluded that it outperformed HST.
Are you referring to the 9 that expanded or the 1 that didn’t? Unfortunately he didn’t measure the expanded diameters for a better comparison with other but they look very good for that low velocity to me. Lucky Gunner had them at a .71″ average which is about as good as it gets, no? Sure Ranger Ts my had a bit larger diameters but I am not sure the ‘crushed volume” is any greater because the petals are pointer/less wide. As for the unexpanded one, it’d take a lot more shots to determine the likely hood of that happening on any given shot.
Sorry about the typos, I was in a hurry.
Lucky Gunner used an M&P 9C with a 3.5″ barrel as the test gun. Even half an inch can make a difference in performance with JHP.
Did you see the expansion of the 9 as inadequate? I just don’t see how one could expect more out of such a small gun and was trying to get Specialist38 to elaborate on why he thought STB was wrong. Maybe Specialist38 is right, but I don’t even know what he is talking about.
I don’t know what his point is either. 0.5″+ will get the job done. STB has always pointed out that rounds fired from pocket pistols don’t perform as well as the same round from a longer barrel. That is one of the reason why I think a pocket pistol is inadequate for anything other than backup or special circumstances The Yankee Marshall put a rare good video out today explaining why this is so.
Critical defense did the same thing. Not great expansion or penetration.
Yeah, a heavy for caliber hollow point at sub sonic velocity is a recipe for under expansion and over penetration when fired from short barrel guns. I think Speer has it right, they relabeled their 124gr. +P as “short barrel” ammo. You still get super sonic velocity from pocket guns and the bonded core Gold Dot HP is a proven performer.
Nice to have STB back. He has been missed.
Welcome back, sir!
I agree. I’m very glad he’s back. He does excellent work.
Dan, next time link in the Full30 video.
Yes, I only watch 2nd amen on full30.
Glad he is back!
Very glad he’s back.
His comments on squabbling on the interwebz being put in perspective by lying in a hospital bed unsure if you’re going to see tomorrow are something I know all too well. Fortunately, at least in my case, I felt so terrible it didn’t bother me.
$1000/person per month for “insurance” and $24K before the ACA kicks in? Sounds about right too.
Nice to see that he’s back. Glad he got over whatever hospitalized him. Hope he gets that shit paid off like Bruce Lee, with a quickness.
STB and TNOutdoors9 both back making content again. COOL!
Holy crap… Dude looks frightenenly like Ben Bernanke.
Good to see him back! So TNOutdoors9 is back?!? I’ll go look…
I have been using the HTS as my go to round in all but 10mm based on these videos. I sure hope Im not at a deficient due to his vids and other reviewers Ive seen on the HST rounds
Statistically, you personally (Unless you hang around in a High crime area or consort with criminals) are unlikely to need that firearm. So I really wouldn’t sweat your ammo selection provided you have something “adequate” You can sum up STB’s ammo quest the same way you can sum up Masaad Ayoob’s comments on ammo:
“Carry quality defensive hollow points that perform well in your gun”. Mr Ayoob of course tends to look to statistics of actual shootings. As well as what’s in favor with the current police departments across the country.
Any of the big names are going to treat you just fine. HST, Defend, Ranger-T, Critical Defense, etc…
This particular weight isn’t the best, but the 124 and 147 hst in 9mm are absolutely stellar performers.
STB, so glad to see you back!
I recently had a small dose of what you went through health and fiscal fallout-wise, and yeah, it can suck.
Looking forwards for more ballistic goodness…
Welcome back, great videos, very thorough and intelligent.
Good to see you back! I thought your videos were a victim of some shadowbanning or conservative censorship.
Stay healthy, and cut the BS out of your life.
The tests need to be conducted over various lots over time to show a better quality ability from the Mfr…..Not all from the same lot or box!
Missed greatly… so very glad to see The Bull is back in the saddle again.
The POTG applaud your return sir!!
Good to see him back!
Glad to see he is back and hope he is healthy. His reviews are why I started looking at TTAG.
So it doesn’t even expand to 150% and its under 900 FPS?