Best New Deer Loads for Fall

1. I’m still using a box of 270 Winchester I got 25yrs ago, they still work just fine.

   • Bob,

     Totally agree that the “old loads” worked fine. I myself got an old, “sporterized” (and you history purists are free to damn me for my apostasy in desecrating an authentic Swedish WW II 6.5 x 55 by “sporterizing” it). The Swedish 6.5 x 55 isn’t the hottest load out there (because the Swedes apparently had only one factory that could manufacture firing chambers that could handle higher power loads, so they deliberately “under powered” the 6.5), but . . . it works great for feral hogs, and is reliable for deer (if your shot placement is halfway decent). The recoil is MORE than comfortable (frankly, I can’t detect much difference between the Swedish 6.5 and a “modern” 5.56 in terms of recoil – but DAYUM there is sure a difference in terminal effect!!). I’ve used that rifle for years, shot hogs with it, shot deer with it, humped it around over hills and through brush, and it just . . . keeps working. Accurate, light, effective, easy to shoot . . . what’s wrong with this picture???? I think the story of this rifle is that . . . all of my friends that have shot it keep asking to borrow it for hunting and just target practice.

     And before I got the 6.5, I used an old .30-30, which works just fine (unless you’re trying to make a 300 yard shot). My buddy has a .270 which has never failed him. Sure, the “old stuff” works just fine. Simply put, the “new stuff” works better. I’ve now shot 6.5 Creedmore and a number of other “modern” calibers, and shot the new loads through my old rifles (although, I will admit, they are slow to release new bullet options in 6.5 Swedish) and . . . they just work better. Sorry, I love the old stuff, too (I will NEVER give up my old 6.5 Swedish . . . if I can get my greedy son to give it back to me!!), but the new stuff just works better. Just sayin’.

     • 6.5 x 55 is well proven all kinds of game. The only reason I have a 6.5/08 instead is my grandfather liked wildcats and built one for a safari. Then his partner made him take a 6.5×55 anyway, so he could find ammo. I’ve had that 6.5/08 rifle since 1977, but once it was standardized as .260 Remington it became marginally easier to get ammo. Until the new fancy 6.5s showed up late to the party that is. None of which work any better on game than the Swede.

       • Drew,

         LOVE, love, love that rifle!!! Light, accurate, dependable, effective. I’ve shot deer, feral hogs, coyotes, prairie dogs with it. It just WORKS. Hard to find ammo for it (particularly in the newer bullet configurations), and it’s expensive when I can find it. Guy I got it from has used it (successfully) for elk, so deer aren’t the top of it’s scale. Not saying, or implying, that my 6.5 Swedish isn’t a GREAT little rifle (it is), just saying that . . . yeah, the new stuff is, objectively, better. 6.5 Creedmor shoots flatter, and hits harder, and is available in ALL the new loads. Have heard good things about 6.5 SPC. The 6.5/.25 bullets are just “slippery”; have great ballistic coefficiency. I will NEVER give up my 6.5 Swedish . . . but I wouldn’t turn down a nice 6.5 Creedmor, if someone offered it to me!!

         • I have a .264 Win Mag for that! I’m like the early adopter of 6.5, so I have all the orphans from the old days.

2. A new calibers first job is to provide ammunition for debate around the fire in hunting camp. We don’t need new calibers, but I believe the rifle makers love them. There’s always a segment of the shooting community that has to have the newest thing out there and that means buying a new rifle. Advances in bullet design are appreciated, but again, not really necessary. Uncle Steve killed elk, mule deer and black bear in Colorado during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s with a Savage 99 in .308. I’ll wager he never saw a polymer tipped bullet in his life. Premium bullets were available, but you had to handload. By contrast a good friend just returned from a elk/pheasant hunt. He took a nice bull with a Remington 700 in.308 using Winchester 168 gr Ballistic Silvertip. Double lunged him and had an exit. Casey’s bull wasn’t any more dead than Uncle Steve’s. I was attending an autopsy once and asked the M.E. if he could tell what caliber rifle the deceased had been shot with (turns out it was a.270) . The M.E. said, “Sure, if the bullet had stayed in the body. High velocity, medium caliber is about the best I can do. Looking at the tissue damage, all of them (calibers) do about the same thing. It doesn’t really matter.”

3. I’ve got a deer hunting question:
   Why are an AK in 7.62 or AR in 5.56 wrong choices for deer hunting in the south? Internetters claim they’re not powerful enough to humanly dispatch a white tail. Yet other internetters claim 357 magnum or 44 magnum out of a revolver is more than sufficient for the same task. Ideally I’d like to procure an AK in 7.62 and also use said rifle for hunting, as Tennessee has no restrictions on type of firearm or “straight wall” etc. Maybe some folks with actual experience can explain if this is or is not a good idea?

   • Syngen Joe,

     You ask an excellent question. Here is my take of which I am very confident:

     For starters, consider the ever-popular lever-action rifle chambered in .30-30 Winchester which sends a .30 caliber, 150 grain bullet at 2,390 feet-per-second. Countless thousands of hunters have taken countless thousands of white-tailed deer with that platform. Note that most people say (and I agree) that the maximum ethical range for that platform is about 150 yards. Beyond that range bullet velocity is slowing and dropping significantly and risks not having enough residual velocity and energy to quickly kill a deer.

     Now on to the the AK-47 rifle platform. Common ammunition has .30 caliber, 124 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity around 2350 feet-per-second. That is basically the same velocity as .30-30 Winchester with a lighter bullet. Will that kill deer? Of course. The important questions are what bullet design should you use and what is the maximum ethical range? As for bullet design, you have to use a softpoint bullet which is supposed to expand and create a much more catastrophic wound in the deer. As for maximum range, I would say 150 yards is maximum for fast/ethical kill. There is another reason for a maximum range of 150 yards: AK-47 rifles are notorious for not being very accurate. Many rifles would produce 4-inch groups at 100 yards and thus roughly 6-inch groups at 150 yards. Furthermore, there is typically no practical way to attach a scope to an AK-47 so you have to use its iron sights–another reason to limit maximum distance.

     On to the AR-15. Due to the small and light bullets, your maximum ethical range will be limited to about 150 yards as well, maybe 200 yards. And you have to use “heavy-for-caliber” bullets with softpoint tips. Something like 69 grain bullets would probably be ideal.

     As for hunting white-tailed deer with revolvers chambered in .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum, they are an ethical hunting platform with careful bullet selection and very limited maximum ethical range. For example the .357 Magnum will launch a .35 caliber, 158 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity around 1,400 feet-per-second if you use the hottest loads available. Even with that heavy bullet and hot loads, I would still limit myself to about 25 yards with the .357 Magnum. As for .44 Magnum, the picture changes because the bullets are huge and heavy which means that they retain significant velocity at longer ranges and retain significant ability to make large and deep holes in deer. Assuming a revolver with a 6-inch barrel and hot loads with 240 grain bullets, I think 75 yards would be about the maximum ethical range for a .44 Magnum revolver.

     Assuming reasonably accurate shot placements, have people killed deer beyond those ranges with all of those calibers/platforms? Sure. Have some of those kills been quick and humane? Sure. Have almost all of those accurate shots produced quick and humane kills? Probably not.

     The summary: choose your bullets carefully (in terms of weight and construction) and limit yourself to widely accepted maximum ethical ranges and you will be fine. With an AK-47, that means 124 grain softpoint bullets and a maximum range of about 150 yards. With an AR-15, that means 69 grain softpoint bullets and a maximum range of about 150 to maybe 200 yards.

     • Gun Control zealots do not want people believing the AR-15 and AK47 are suitable for anything but killing people. Some people are prone to fall for concocted misinformation and labels such as Saturday Night Special, Undetectable, Assault Weapon, Gun Violence, etc.

       So for those with hearsay reservations about the AR-15 capabilities…If you are lost in the deep woods starving and stumble across a cabin with an AR-15 are you going to sit there wondering about what you heard about the AR-15 or are you going deer hunting?

     • Thanks Uncommon_sense that’s exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. I’m looking at the prospect of a do it all rifle. There are some good deals on new AK’s thanks to the Russian ammo ban. One could get a single shot for not that much money, but why buy 2 guns if you can get 1 that can do 2 jobs.

       • It depends on what you call humane – if you shoot a N FL whitetail on the side of the neck with a 150 gr 306 Win at <200 yds, he lays down, wags his tail, and passes. If you do the same with a 68 gr 223 Rem, the deer will lay down. Then he will start trying to get up. You may have to shoot him again, even if the first shot broke his neck. Both outcomes are called humane.

         Your call…

         • XZX,

           I get it. I would imagine there is a significant difference in performance due to bullet construction.

           Virtually all .30 caliber (e.g. .308 Winchester) bullet constructions that anyone would use for hunting would be softpoints or possibly even hollowpoints with polymer tips. Those do the job of course.

           When it comes to .223 Remington, the vast majority of bullets are full metal jacket or “open tip match” which is effectively full metal jacket. Those bullets will “ice pick” a deer as I like to call it. If someone shoots a deer with those at ranges less than 200 yards, I would expect pretty much exactly what you described. On the other hand, if the hunter was using a quality expanding bullet (such as a softpoint which expands significantly), I would expect much better performance and a much faster and definitive kill.

           Deer are unpredictable. I have shot white-tailed deer with 12 gauge slugs and .44 Magnum softpoint bullets (coming out of a rifle at velocities in excess of 1,600 feet-per-second) with varying results. In one case I shot a 1.5 year old buck a bit too far forward which broke both shoulders but did not hit his heart nor lungs. He proceeded to start leaping on his back legs multiple times until I shot him a second time (in the neck) at which point he went lights-out. Another time, I shot a very large buck 70 yards away with my .44 Magnum rifle (a 240 grain softpoint bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1,800 feet-per-second). I put a perfect double-lung shot on him and he still ran nearly 130 yards. And my father-in-law shot a large buck with a 20 gauge shotgun slug–a textbook perfect broadside double-lung shot. That deer ran over 200 yards–and left a trail of blood that looked someone was splashing buckets of red paint all over the place–before expiring.

           And while we are on the topic of unpredictable deer response to gunshot wounds, my cousin was desperate for venison one year and shot a yearling doe on the last day of the special muzzleloader season. He hit it (double lung and heart) with a 300 grain, 50 caliber bullet at 10 yards. That little 65 pound doe still ran about 35 yards.

           Even with “large” calibers, white-tail deer sometimes die a lot slower than you would expect.

           • FMJ ain’t legal where I have hunted. No shortage of good quality hunting ammo, either. There just is no substitute for caliber.

   • My first deer was taken with an SKS and my last deer was with a lever carbine in .357. I have never deer hunter with a pistol, this season I will have a reproduction 1873 revolver in .357 if the deer get too close for the carbine. Where I hunt a few have walked up to the blind. I would completely comfortable for a short shot with .357.

4. What I hunt with depends on local regulations, (rifle or shotgun etc.), terrain, likely ranges, possible weather conditions, and possible predators. Not much point in using something like the 45-70 on white tails in Alabama. Nor would I recommend a 30-30 for cross the valley shots at Elk in Montana. Down here where I hunt the 30-30 or my Ruger 44 carbine works just fine. As does almost anything in lighter calibers like 243 or 270. In many areas a shotgun with slugs or buckshot will do just fine. Back up in the north woods where I used to hunt I would prefer something with a little more down range energy and heavier bullets. Deer tend to be more heavy bodied in colder climates. And you might get lucky and get a moose tag or unlucky and run into an aggressive bear.
   And then as with most things caliber/rifle related, it still comes down to personal preference’s and what you have available.
   Most importantly, get out and enjoy the hunt. Getting the game, getting a clean kill, are important, but so is the experience of getting out and being in the woods and fields. Hopefully with friends and family. Teach the younger people to enjoy nature and not destroy what we have in the name of progress. And be willing to learn from those you hunt with sometimes even old dogs like me can learn a few new tricks.

5. I have spent a lot of hours talking to experienced hunters, researching hunting, and researching “long range” shooting. All of that has led me to the following position:
   1) Placing accurate shots (e.g. 6-inch or less groups) beyond 300 yards becomes exceedingly error-prone for several reasons and very few hunters (perhaps 1%) can do it every time they pull the trigger.
   2) Spotting deer and/or having shots at deer beyond 300 yards is infrequent.

   Therefore, if you are willing to limit yourself to 300 yards or less (which is effectively no limit at all for nearly all hunters), any traditional or new centerfire rifle caliber is absolutely fine. That being the case, if you already have a “traditional” caliber (such as .243 Winchester, .270 Winchester, .308 Winchester, .30-30 Winchester, .30-06 Springfield, etc.), you already have an excellent caliber/platform for taking deer out to 300 yards and there is basically no benefit to acquiring one of the newer calibers.

   If you want a new rifle in a new caliber just because, excellent! Go buy one. All I am saying is 99% of hunters and/or hunting scenarios do not require a new rifle in one of the newer calibers for deer hunting success.

6. Reading this article I inventoried the 30-06 ammo I pocess, golly gee, .220grSP Remington CorLoct $10.75. That was purchased a few years back no doubt. At the time I thought .50cents a round was a bit overpriced.
   150grFMJ Lake City, $7.50.
   Call me a Whaaaaa’mbulance.

7. ^.220gr,RNSP to be more specific.

8. 750 grain hallow point loaded into a .50 BMG cartridge. I’ve never had to chase one down.

   • Coincidentally I was invited today by a friend I just reconnected with(best man at my wedding 35 years ago) to go duck hunting in the Kankakee Marsh in Indiana. Dunno I if want to ante up over $200 for a liscense, waders,steel shot etc. Oh yeah it gets cold & wet there. Also coincidentally I have an accquaintence who calls himself The Duckman & sells Duck Decoys online. Quite the hunter. Kismet? Destiny? Mebbe🙄 Is Bambi next???

   • Elmer, like I always say,
     ” anything worth killin’s worth Overkillin’ “

     • As my friend Yosemite Sam would say, “it aves me the hassle of gutting the long eared varmint.”

   • I too enjoy hunting T-Rex’s when in season. I just make sure I go hunting with someone who runs slower than me, just in case.

     • Trex got a big appetite – they eat the fast guy first, then mop up.

9. Last year’s take was done with a Creedmauser (German-made Mauser 18 Savannah in 6.5CM) shooting S&B 140-grain soft points. Leupold glass. Zero at 200y. 160ish yard shot. Dropped on the spot. Could not find where it went in, but it left a golfball-sized hole on the opposite side. 6.5 BleedLess? Hardly.

10. “With the right load and proper shot placement, you’ll be well-equipped for a successful and ethical hunt this fall”. Ethical…..this is all important for any number of reasons.

11. ^ unethical hunting.
    so MyLai, MyKhe, type hunting.

    • Not in the least. I got to Vietnam well after those episodes and we were warned.

12. For decades, my groundhog medicine has been a Remington 700 BDL with a Redfield 3-9×40 in .22-250, circa 1980. I’ve tinkered with fancy bullets in it, but always went back to the old 55 gr Hornady PSP and a case full of 4895. 400 yards is plenty, although I got one at 675 once. I did swap out the Redfield for a Vortex recently, because the glass is just plain easier on my eyes. No need to change anything else, because it works. Fudd? No, I don’t think so, just practical. My truck gun is an AR pistol in 350 Legend, and my 380 mags are filled with screwdriver tip bullets. I just ordered one of those Rossi RP63 revolvers that Valdes wrote about over at SNW because I want to work with a 6 shooter for awhile. If I lived out west, I’d likely have some fancy long range kit. This is a great country; remember to vote to keep it that way.

13. By all means, review nothing for the thousands of hunters who live in states that only allow straight-walled calibers or shotguns….

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