Scenes from the Democrats’ Las Vegas ‘Gun Safety’ Forum

msnbc 2020 gun violence forum

  1. As it turned out, MSNBC didn’t even want to trash their daytime ratings by airing five-plus hours of gun control talk from ten hoplophobic Democrats. So instead, they put the anti-gun extravaganza up on their web site. And we sat through the whole…damn…thing.

You’ll be glad to know that because the subject matter was sure to be stressful for some in the very supportive audience, organizers had arranged for a safe space, a “decompression zone” as they called it, for those who might be overwhelmed.

After intros from Giffords’ executive director and the head of the March for Our Lives Las Vegas operation, the “gun safety” forum was kicked off by Nevada Governor Steve Sisolak and Assemblywoman Sandra Jauregui.

Jauregui was at the the music festival where the Mandalay Bay shooter opened fire two years ago and recounted the horror of that experience.

nevada governor sisolak

A sometimes tearful Sisolak described walking through the aftermath the next day, hearing a cell phone ringing that was dropped by someone at the festival.

chris murphy, gabby giffords, david hogg

Next up on the stage were Gabby Giffords, Senator Chris Murphy, and March for Our Lives members Ariel Hobbs and…David Hogg.

Murphy rallied the crowd by proclaiming that the gun control movement is now stronger than the gun lobby. Hogg proclaimed that he wants to live in a world where a therapist is easier to access than a gun. Really. He also wants to “challenge the culture,” ending the culture of guns and white supremacy in this country.

MSNBC host Craig Melvin then noted that the octogenarian socialist, Bernie Sanders, couldn’t be there as he’d experienced heart problems and had been hospitalized after having a couple stents inserted in a blocked artery.

Melvin then cycled through the candidates, giving each about 30 minutes of time. Here are some, uh, highlights:

pete butigieg

Mayor Pete Butigieg tee’d things up, letting the crowd know that there’s barely a hair’s breadth of difference between any of the ten of them. They’re all for . . .

…universal background checks, closing the hate loophole, the Charleston loophole, the boyfriend loophole, disarming domestic abusers, enacting red flag laws, extreme risk protection orders [ED: yes, those are the same thing], banning the sale of assault weapons like what I carried in Afghanistan.

He then proclaimed that the entire exercise is meaningless if Democrats don’t win.

We know what we have to do. The question is, how do we make sure this time really is different? Because every time, we say this time is different. And all of the plans…of course, I think my plan is the best. So does everybody else. All of them are multiplied by zero if we don’t actually get something done.

And so this is not just a question about policy. This is a question about power.

julian castro

Julian Castro, besides being almost completely unremarkable, wants to ban armor-piercing ammunition and raise the excise tax on guns to 20% to pay for “gun violence prevention programs.”

He said that he doesn’t want to let pro-gun people use mental health as an excuse not to do something about guns.

Oh, he also suggested having better ways to “track ammunition.” Translation, he’s in favor of microstamping.

cory booker

An extremely earnest Cory Booker was up next. He announced that because of the gun violence epidemic that’s crippling the nation, this is no time for an “impotency of empathy.”

The audience was just as confused by that as you probably are.

Senator Spartacus then talked once again about his bold plan for mandatory buybacks and a national gun licensing scheme. Host Melvin asked booker — twice — what would be required under his licensing requirement to purchase a gun. Apparently having failed to talk the matter over sufficiently with T-Bone, Booker dodged both attempts to get him to answer.

He also fabricated a number of statistics supporting the alleged public support for national licensing.

elizabeth warren fauxcahontas lieawatha

Senator Elizabeth Warren ran home to what she knows best. Repeatedly. She intoned that the gun lobby and gun industry have too much power and make too much money. For Princess Lieawatha, it’s always a problem of private industry actually profiting at the expense of the little guy.

Fauxcahontas was then asked — twice — what her proposed 1-gun-a-month sales restriction would accomplish. When pressed, she finally said that it “keeps people from bulking up in the middle of a crisis.” Someone buying more than one guns “serves as a red flag” and that if someone buys multiple firearms, “I’d like to know about that.”

In the end, she said the problem isn’t about guns. It’s all about politics. It’s about money. Clearly, gun companies are making too much money for her tastes.

Joe Biden

After the lunch break, it was Uncle Joe’s turn. Biden told the cheering crowd that he wants to repeal the legal protection given to the firearms industry (the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act). He he succeeds, of course, gun makers would be sued out of existence.

Biden then re-tread some old ground. First he said — again — that he’s the only guy in history who had beaten the NRA. As Melvin clarified for Biden, the one-time Senator apparently was referring to the Brady Bill and the 94 assault weapons ban.

He announced that we now have the technology to make every gun a smart gun and prevent guns from firing without biometric confirmation. He said that when he’s in the Oval Office, he’d bring in the heads of all the gun companies and ask them why they aren’t making smart guns. But he knows that it’s all about selling more weapons.

Slow Joe also wants a national voluntary assault weapons buyback and require those who don’t turn in their guns to register them a la the machine gun registry.

As for magazine capacity limits, Joe noted that if you’re hunting ducks, you can only have three rounds in your shotgun. Joe thinks we should protect people as much as we protect ducks and geese.

Robert Francis Beto O'Rourke

Robert Francis O’Rourke was clearly in his element. He wasted no time in calling out some of his fellow candidates — Butigieg, in particular — for failing to have the courage to call for mandatory “assault weapon” confiscation (Butigieg, like Biden, wants a voluntary buyback). He said the majority of Americans want confiscation so there’s no need to be scared.

He then recounted stories of AR owners who allegedly have approached him in restaurants and bathrooms to tell him that they don’t need their rifles…that they’d be happy to turn them in.

Craig Melvin then asked “Beto” who should have the right to own a firearm. O’Rourke said everyone should have that right, if it’s for hunting, self-defense, or legitimate purposes. But people who pose a danger to themselves or others shouldn’t own guns. He said Second Amendment rights don’t trump our right to live or to live without fear.

After a question from Parkland kid Emma Gonzalez, O’Rourke that as president, he’d appoint a director of gun violence prevention, someone who is responsible and accountable for delivering care, resources and help to communities that need it.

Amy Klobuchar

Someone named Amy Klobuchar then took the stage. She had little of consequence to say, other than reminding the crowd that, just as in her home state of Minnesota, there are a lot of law-abiding gun owners out there and that most Americans support background checks.

She said that she works in a place that’s supposed to be of extraordinary power, but the guy in the White House doesn’t have the courage to do anything about gun violence. She said she sat across a table and reminded Trump about the times he said he’d do something about background checks and the boyfriend loophole…and then he folded to the NRA. She promised not to cave to the NRA.

Oh, she’s also for appointing a Director of Gun Violence to go after hate groups and white nationalists. And changing the tone of our politics.

In the end, when it comes to any proposed restriction on gun rights, she asks herself, “Would it hurt my Uncle Dick in his deer stand.” Background checks, red flag laws, magazine capacity limits…none of those, she said, would impact Uncle Dick. So she’s for them.

Andrew Yang

Even an allegedly bright guy like venture fund whiz Andrew Yang falls into the same trap as so many of his fellow candidates. In his desire for a tiered licensing scheme for firearms, he likens gun ownership to driving a car or truck. Yang apparently fails to register the distinction between a privilege (driving) and an enumerated constitutional right (gun ownership). Craig Melvin didn’t point that out.

Yang then went into his plan to give every American $1000 per month (something he calls a Freedom Dividend). That, he said, would reduce financial stresses and provide resources that would make children stronger so they won’t become school shooters. Or something.

He acknowledged that we’ll be struggling with gun violence for generations (apparently because of the hundreds of millions of guns in America). But he wants to give every voter 100 “Democracy Dollars” to donate to politicians of their choice. In that way, Americans will be able to overwhelm the power of the gun lobby by swamping politicians with cash that would outweigh the contributions of the NRA and other pro-gun donors.

He wants an inventory system that would alert authorities to anyone who buys a “large number” of firearms or thousands of rounds of ammunition. He claimed that 3% of Americans own 50% of the guns and that “we” need to know why those people have those arsenals.

Craig Melvin then asked, hypothetically, what would the government do with that information if it had it. Yang replied that America needs an evergreen buyback program to reduce the number of guns in civilian hands. He then veered off onto the need for smart guns to ensure unauthorized people can’t use weapons.

Kamala Harris

The day came to a merciful end with Senator Kamala Harris. When asked whether impeachment would hurt the chances for passing a gun control bill, she said that President Trump hasn’t accomplished much of anything anyway and lacks the courage, conviction, and leadership to “stand up to the NRA” and reject the “false choice between the Second Amendment and confiscating guns.” Whatever that means.

She said you can respect the Second Amendment and the tradition of hunting. But an assault weapon was “designed to kill a lot of human beings quickly. It’s the design of the thing. It has to place on our streets, it’s a weapon of war, and isn’t part of the Second Amendment.”

She then proceeded spouted a stream of standard Democrat platitudes. She said the goal should be healthy communities, because healthy communities mean safe communities. And that means injecting resources into those communities to make them healthy. Poverty, she said, is trauma-inducing. Children then act out and are ID’d as the “bad kid,” and it becomes self-fulfilling.

But we have to help those communities that isn’t paternalistic. She wants to put a nurse and a social worker in every school in America to help make these healthy (and less violent) communities.

Like Castro, she said calls by the pro-gun side to address mental health are a dodge to do something like developing smart guns. Like others, she lamented the number of students that are being put through active shooter drills and teachers being taught how to tackle attackers.

She supports a mandatory buyback of the “5 to 10 million assault weapons” in the country, “but we gotta do it the right way.” She didn’t explain what the “right way” is.

And with that…this long strange trip ended. We endured it so you didn’t have to, because we have the best readers on the internet. Period.



  1. avatar Draven says:

    better you than me.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      And meanwhile in the gun free utopia of Australia, someone decided to shoot at a house and TWO police stations with a pump action shotgun. It ended poorly for them.

      Any bets meth was involved?

      Note that here pump action shotguns are at best highly restricted to prohibited, so I doubt the person was a licensed legal owner.

      1. avatar Southern Cross says:

        Deputy Police Commissioner has confirmed in an interview the gunman was not licensed. So they were in illegal possession of a restricted/prohibited weapon. How do you get any more illegaller?

        1. avatar Toni says:

          meth possibly…. more likely roids. he was a body builder afterall and in the photos he did not have the look of a meth head. meth tends to burn up both fat and muscle and not allow you to build the sort of muscle of a body builder

    2. avatar Big Bill says:

      While it wasn’t mentioned in the above article, it should be understood that these people are speaking to their (perceived) base; they are definitely not speaking to us at all. And their (perceived) base is the far left wing (Pelosi is considered to be a centrist by these people).
      Wait a little while, and you will see them adopt a slightly milder tone as the primaries get closer, and their campaign goals start to include the entire Democratic and liberal field of voters. Much of the rhetoric you’re seeing here doesn’t fly with those not on the far left fringe (it just seems to because that’s what the leftist media want us to believe).
      After the primaries, and a candidate is chosen, we’ll see a real softening of these ‘goals’ as the candidate realizes that the voting population simply won’t elect someone who doesn’t understand the constitution he’s going to take an oath to protect and defend.

      1. avatar Phil Wilson says:

        “After the primaries…we’ll see a real softening of these ‘goals’…”

        Absolutely. But there is video and if the GOP are smart they’ll use it. The limitation there is that major networks, CNN, Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. will all suppress any adds of that type. Hard.

        1. avatar Sebastian says:

          Then the media talking heads will aid and abet the lies by saying that wasn’t what they meant.

          If they can deny Joe Bidden ON CAMERA (!!!) bragging about holding back over a billion dollars until his son’s prosecutor is fired, there is no lie they will not tell. They are beyond biased.

        2. avatar Big Bill says:

          “Who are you going to believe: Me, or your lying eyes?!”

        3. avatar Big Bill says:

          I’m STILL not getting email notifications about replies to my comments.
          I keep saying this: It can’t be that hard, because other forums have comment sections that work as intended.
          Or, maybe this one is working as intended?

    3. avatar Echo5Bravo says:

      Uuhhhggg wheres my shovel?

  2. avatar Sam I Am says:

    How can you observe a mental ward in full panic, and not be affected?

    Hopefully it is nothing a 6-pack of Shiner Bock cannot fix.

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      “…mental ward…”
      Exactly. Because they actually believe what they are saying.

      1. avatar Someone says:

        For most of them, I would dare say they don’t believe what they proclaim. They simply lie to achieve a goal. Leftists know that their hare brained communist programs cannot be installed while we, the people are armed. That means they need to disarm us first.

        For decades they used the media to brainwash the population to that end:

        Guns are the cause of violence and we live in terrible “gun violence crisis”.
        Weapons most useful in militia service are WMDs and must to be confiscated first.
        2A protects hunting.
        Only mass murderers need magazines with capacity larger than 10, 7, 5 or 2 rounds.
        No one needs a magazine fed, self loading rifle chambered for a small caliber intermediate cartridge.
        Same with supressors, machine guns, “destructing devices” and armor piercing ammo.
        All lies and infringements on what shall not be infringed. Now some of them feel that the fruit of that campaign is ripe. They don’t realize how dangerous it is to try to declaw a sleeping bear.

        1. avatar doesky2 says:

          They don’t give a sheet about guns or gun violence.
          They only want to crush their enemy…which is us.

        2. avatar SouthAl says:

          “ending the culture of guns and white supremacy in this country.”
          “appointing a Director of Gun Violence to go after hate groups and white nationalists”

          They are making these pairings in their ‘conversational’ language now, to lay the foundation for one of the next hard ‘brainwashing’ pushes for the blind masses. The next lie that will be heavily promoted is:

          white supremacy=white nationalism=gun owner.

          They have been pushing it for a while, but with a camouflage and casualness that will be dropped soon. When that happens, it will seem like a perfectly correct equivalence since it has been heard so much already.

  3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

    Sure. Because why not.

    It’s all talk that will go nowhere. There are now too many lawful gun owners across the nation to reckon with for any of this unicorn poop to be implemented on any effectual scale.

  4. avatar jwm says:

    So there were no pro gun folks at this event? Doesn’t matter. After 2020 the democrats will either get smart and dump these left wing harpies or they will dwindle to nothing.

    1. avatar Victor says:

      Depends where you’re from. I see no weakening of Democrat power or policies in blue states.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Oh, it’s coming, don’t you worry. The problems in CA cannot be blamed on anyone other than Democrats, due to their 20-year stranglehold on the state, counties, and metro cities. For the first time in our history, every single state-level office is held by a Democrat. No Repubs whatsoever. The silver lining to this debacle is that the Dems are now forced to own all the problems. Every single one. Taxes, deficits, homelessness, crime, poverty, exodus of productive citizens and businesses…all of it.

        The average Joe on the street is waking up to this.

        1. avatar LifeSavor says:

          I think you are correct. Watch for a GOP spending blitz in key CA counties. It is coming.

        2. avatar OBOB says:

          As a person that JUST escaped Commiefornia

          IMO the whole state needs to FAIL…all the productive citizens should be encouraged to leave
          (if you, like me have left the state…please stay on those local facebook pages and sow the roots for others to leave. Show them that 4.50 per gallon gas is NOT normal and 2.30$ in MOST sane(NON DNC RUN STATES) is normal. Show them that moving might be a burden, but making more money in the long run!)

          the sooner that tax base leaves=the soon it fails and the DNC falls a a whole!

        3. avatar LifeSavor says:


          God has gifted you with Wisdom.

        4. avatar Justsomeguy says:

          Nope, they will deflect it and blame it on Trump and the republicans at the federal level and they;ll get away with it. There are still many in Venezuela that buy the socialist clap trap. Ther’e always a reason it isn’t rtheir fault.

        5. avatar I Haz A Question says:


          As a lifelong native Californian of half a century, I leave the decision to stay or leave to each person as a private matter. I, however, choose to stay and fight, for if we all left, there would be no chance whatsoever for this once-great State to turn around.

          …or to stop the spillover of the crazy into your new home’s politics.

        6. avatar D.T.O.M. says:

          @ I Haz A Question

          I used to think that finally the Dems will have to own that, not anymore. They have, for example, controlled the nations cities for decades, and will continue to do so for decades more. They will just blame someone else and demand more power and control to ‘fix’ the problem. Being a modern day dem means never having to say your sorry.

          @ OBOB

          California voters should stay right where they are. When they leave, they only infect other states. The states of Washington, Oregon, Colorado, and Nevada, have been flipped blue and Arizona, and Montana, are teetering purple because of California. Anyone that needs to be shown that California isn’t normal, shouldn’t leave.

        7. avatar MaddMaxx says:

          Don’t feel alone, New York, New Jersey, Ct, Ma etc have been slowly but surely destroying the once very red state of Fl now a deep shade of purple and of course we would be remiss if we failed to credit the recent influx of refugees from storm ravaged Puerto Rico who for some reason several hundred thousand were blessed with the right to vote in the 2018 state elections and very nearly gave us a full blown Socialist, corrupt politician as our Governor.. Even though the main reason they had to leave their homes was due to the corrupt, socialist leadership that set up the conditions that caused the destruction to their power grid, their homes, supply lines and the economic failure that ensued even after Trump opened the door for billions of dollars in aid….

  5. avatar GS650G says:

    If Trump loses we will be quickly disarmed. Vote accordingly.
    He’s not perfect but Jesus look at the alternatives

    1. avatar Rheopectic says:


      We will be immediately propelled into Civil Disobedience and possible Civil War.

      The only way the Socialist Democrats can win anyway is through Voter Fraud in its many forms including Voting Machine tampering. Guess who owns a major Voting Machine manufacturer. You guessed it – Georgie Soros.

  6. avatar Parnell says:

    Mayor Pete carried an AR15 in Afghanistan? I guess they didn’t trust me with an M4?

  7. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    Okay, you get a cookie and you get a cookie and awwww hell everybody that watched that shit show gets a cookie AND a referral to the shrink of your choice cause you must really have some deep psychological issues to put yourselves through 5 hours of that turd jerker… As DRAVEN commented above, better you than me… WAY better…..

    1. avatar PMinFl says:

      To Sam: remember that when we read 1984 it was social/science fiction. The younger generation thinks it;s some kind of history. If it’son the internet it Must be true…………pm

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “To Sam: remember that when we read 1984 it was social/science fiction.”

        When I was in college, the lefties were thoroughly convinced it was an expose’ of hard right (nazi) policies and future direction.

        Speaking of the future….ever consider that if someone from the future of this planet came back to talk to you, it would mean you are dead?

  8. avatar LifeSavor says:

    I wonder if Andrew Yang would let us use the $1,000 monthly guaranteed income to purchase, ammo, range time, gear, and guns.

    1. avatar Someone says:

      He forgot to mention that those $1000 will be your whole income. Total income equality across the board. 😄 ‘Everybody equally miserable’ is motto of communism.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        ” ‘Everybody equally miserable’ is motto of communism.”

        Everybody equally miserable, but some are more miserable than others.

        1. avatar Rincoln says:

          Thank you, Animal Farm. If that’s not still required reading, it certainly should be.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Thank you, Animal Farm. If that’s not still required reading, it certainly should be.”

          At some of the blogs I visit, 1984 is just a year gone by.

        3. avatar Toni says:

          when i studdied it in grade 10 i was the only student in the class that completely “got” all 4 levels of meaning in the book. most could barely comprehend anything past the first 2 levels with the first basically just being a kids story. I also had long discussions with the teacher about it on what i saw in it that went beyond anything that she had in her teachers manual for teaching it too. After a few such discussions she had to agree with me

      2. avatar DaveL says:

        Also, a brick of cheese costs $60. Assuming it’s your week for buying cheese. Because you wouldn’t dream of buying on the black market, would you, you class traitor kulak?

      3. avatar Phil Wilson says:

        And that the 1K will be worth much less than it is not, due to inflation.

    2. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      I’d rather fund rifles than abortions. The rifles are far less likely to wind up causing someone to wind up dead statistically.

  9. avatar daveinwyo says:

    Thank you, folks at TTAG. I hope you had plenty of beer and some barf bags.
    What crap. Great way to win an election. At least the liars are out in the open now.
    On a better note.
    Where is the best online place to buy 6.5 CM?
    Just got my Ruger American in 6.5 CM put a Sig Whisky 3×9 scope on.
    LGS wants near $40+ per box. Has to be better out there.
    See how I slick I changed the subject?
    Again, thanks for (puke) watching that BS!

    1. avatar ‘liljoe says:

      140 gr?

      Target or hunting?

      1. avatar daveinwyo says:

        Right now, target ( I like to bench shoot) but some for hunting is also needed.
        Any Ideas?

        1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:


          Hey, TTAG – How about a regular reloading column? a regularly-updated ‘Stickey’ “basics of reloading” written by someone like Jon Taylor or other knowledgeable one?

        2. avatar Someone says:

          Second the reloading suggestion for 6.5 CM. Good target projectiles are around $.30 and up. Less in bulk. You can make half MOA ammo for well under $.50 a round if you reuse your brass. Plus you can fine tune your ammo to work best for your particular rifle and your particular application.

          Fun at the reloading bench is added benefit. Even more if you start to cast your own bullets, experiment with different lead alloys, lubricants, coatings… the possibilities are endless.

        3. avatar Perry says:

          +1: reload. My antiquated .308 range ammo is under 20cents per giggle.

          The cool thing about bolt-action is that the brass lasts forever. I’m up to 5th reload on my Hornady Match Brass in the RAR .308.

        4. avatar ‘liljoe says:

          Try ammo seek for online purchases. Lucky gunner is another good site.

          I recently got some “bulk” Hornady ammo at Cabela’s 50 rounds for $56. 140 grain. Got it to sight in my rifle, so far they have been accurate out to 700 yards which surprised the heck out of me (12 inch steel plates). Haven’t taken it out to 1000 yet due to weather.

          I don’t reload (as of yet) but I’m ok with that… have too many projects otherwise occupying my time 🙂

  10. avatar NORDNEG says:

    Sounds too me that the wrong people got wasted at these tragic events…

    1. avatar Big Bill says:

      It’s been pointed out by myself and others that this type of reply is passed around on anti-gun forums as an example of just how bloodthirsty us gun owners are.
      While you may mean it in jest, it doesn’t look like it.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        Thank you for that moment of clarity.

  11. avatar Cruzo1981 says:

    All this talk of taking rights away from people is exactly why there is a second amendment. It’s like these politicians failed all their American History classes.

    1. avatar Dan W says:

      America is built on racism and whiteness so it’s best to just ignore history.

      1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        “America is built on racism and whiteness so it’s best to just ignore history.”

        *Snicker* 😉

        And for some strange reason, the USA is the number one (with a bullet) place those who have been truly oppressed want to go. Bad enough, a healthy percentage of them die in the process.

        ‘Free Clue’ – Being ‘oppressed’ doesn’t mean having Trump as a president. Ask anyone who escaped North Korea what oppression really is.

        And Dan? If America sucks as bad as you think it is, why don’t you just get the fvck out? And take as many of your Leftist ‘buddies’ with you, willya?

        1. avatar Someone says:

          Sarcasm meter troubless, Geoff?

      2. avatar Tim says:

        Yeah, that’s why millions of “people of color” have been flooding our border for generations. It’s so racist, they risk their lives to get in.

        You, on the other hand, can get bent.

      3. avatar Phil Wilson says:

        Freaking Howard Zinn.

    2. avatar LifeSavor says:

      I think most of them know very well that they are advocating for annullment of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Every day they work to silence conservative, patriotic voices. They work to erase our borders, weaken families, and negate the faith and values upon which this country was founded.

      Well, the younger ones(the squad, for example) really do not have the education. You are certainly right on that point. But Warren, Yang, Castro, Spartacus, Bernie, they’ve studied the Constitution and see it as an obstacle to enforcing their vision (OK, OK, hallucinations) on this country.

      1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        “I think most of them know very well that they are advocating for annullment of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.”

        They don’t consider it an annulment. They think of a malleable constitution, one that “changes with the times” . A “Living Constitution”, they call it. Refining it as time goes on…

      2. avatar Big Bill says:

        Most of us remember being worried when Obama said he wanted to “fundamentally change” America, even though he didn’t go into much detail about how he would go about that.
        These people are telling us exactly how they would do it,and it involves doing away with the Bill of Rights (they have already directly attacked the First, Second, Fourth and Fifth, with others indirectly attacked), and thus the Constitution itself.
        In other words, they want to remake the foundation our country rests on.
        Why? Because they already hold power in our large, voter dense metropolitan areas, many (if not most) states, and they want to retain that power.
        And they know enough history to understand that tyrannical governments are best unseated by violence, so they want to disarm those who would oppose them.
        The question is (and has been) this: is the voting population able to understand that the end goal is to impose a “safe” environment of an “equal” population that is only fed the information they “need” to know?
        How many schools require their students to read “Animal Farm” and “1984”? Why is civics no longer taught in most schools? (And Home Ec? Why are our students no longer even taught to boil and egg? It may sound like a stupid question, but why aren’t students taught that they can do things themselves? Is it too far fetched to think that maybe the students are being conditioned to count on the government for even the simplest of tasks? How may of us even know how to change the oil in our cars, much less actually do it? /rant)
        The ramifications of the proposals being put forward are far reaching, far beyond mere gun control. It’s our job to educate the voters about this,if possible. (Cue the replies saying the voting public is too stupid to be educated; cite those who vote Democrat as proof.)

  12. avatar UpInArms says:

    Hogg-boyy’s arms are so skinny, how does he get a fork-full of food up to his mouth? I’ve seen more muscle on a 5-year-old.

    1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      And notice the pissed-off look on his face. It’s the (allegedly) male version of “Resting B i t c h Face”…

      1. avatar Wood says:

        “Sour puss”

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      I didn’t think it was possible for someone at or near adulthood to look worse than I did last year.

      Hogg proves that this is, in fact, possible.

      1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        Nearly getting killed can do that to someone.

        After last year’s year-end ‘adventure’, I was shocked as to how a crushed limb could suck the life-force out of someone. My physical strength and endurance was flat *gone*. Doing my after-surgery phys. therapy, walking 100 feet down the hallway exhausted me. Me, who one day earlier was knocking out 20 miles daily bike riding. And took a long time after to regain. Like 6 months. I’d like to know what sucked the strength out of my undamaged leg for as long as it did.

        So, I can easily imagine your diabetic fvcked-up endocrine (?) system so out of whack you needed hospitalization quite believable.

        I hope you have some new tools in your health toolbox so you don’t get bit again like you did last time. 30 years down the line you might not survive what laid you low like that…

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          It’s funny to me how that kind of thing reorders context of things in life. I wouldn’t wish it on people but some people might need that kind of mental rearrangement, preferably without needing to nearly die and blow through $92K to get it (Thanks ACA!).

          It’s given me enormous patience in certain regards but at the same time reduced my patience for certain species of fuckery down to absolute 0.

          Hope you’re feeling better. I got the cyborg treatment. You got all the cool metal doodads.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “It’s funny to me how that kind of thing reorders context of things in life.”


          Growing up, didn’t really understand my dad. He was kind and considerate, but also kinda distant. He was one of those who wouldn’t say much if asked, “What did you do in the war, Daddy”? Actually, can’t remember when he ever answered. So, surrounded by kids with fathers pretty much similar, it was just “normal” for us.

          Years later, after a scrape or two with shrapnel, I was unprepared for that re-ordering you mentioned. After retirement, went to work with a “beltway bandit” company. One day, there was some sort of chaos about a major mistake the execs made that would cost the company hundreds of thousands if left uncorrected. The entire office was filled with people dashing here and there “with their hair on fire”, and other variations of fear and panic. When the situation was explained to me (came into the office late that day), I automatically (as in not thinking) blurted out, “What’s the big deal? It’s only money.” People around me came to a complete halt, with shock and amazement on their faces. Then I compounded the thing with a follow up, “Hey, no one is shooting at us.” It was then that I realized how different things seemed to “civilians”, and how different to me. The identification of big and small matters were a division I had not recognized before.

        3. avatar Big Bill says:

          I understand.
          I’ve been laid low thrice in the last decade: cancer, broken hip that can’t heal properly, and losing my wife’s companionship by brain aneurysm. (First time I’ve admitted this online.)
          It’s a hard row to hoe, and it changes things in ways no one else can understand.
          And, yes, it can certainly reduce one’s tolerance for stupidity.

  13. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    The Burnmeister was a no show due to his stint procedure but as the Communist he is,he would have been for further infringements of that which Shall Not Be Infringed.

  14. avatar Kevin Johnson says:

    “He then recounted stories of AR owners who allegedly have approached him in restaurants and bathrooms”

    Those aren’t AR owners that are approaching you in bathrooms Francis.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Beat me to it!

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      Actually I think they are some of those infamous “ghost voters,” since anyone who wants to get rid of an AR can sell it, saw it in two, walk it down to the police department where it will be turned into…uhh, some officer’s private collection…

    3. avatar Big Bill says:

      Yeah, I really doubt those stories of AR owners who want to give them up.
      Since it’s so easy to do, why wait to be forced to do it?
      No, he’s like all the other politicians, he just makes it easier to see the lies.

  15. avatar cris says:

    Thank you.
    This article is the best piece of real Journalism I’ve read in a while (outside of current TTAG contributors.)
    Concise, objective, informative.
    We appreciate your extra effort in sitting through their crap

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      This, and all of you, is why I read TTAG every day, several times a day. It is also why I click on the ads. Clicks are $$.

    2. avatar Big Bill says:

      No, real journalism reports the news.
      It doesn’t editorialize on the news.
      This is a good article, but it’s not real journalism.
      Some of us are old enough to remember real journalism.

  16. avatar GunnyGene says:

    You think they know about the Military Exchange “loophole”? Yep that’s right, any active, retired, or honorably discharged vet and their of age dependents, can buy firearms and ammo on-line thru the AAFES. Free shipping and no tax. And they do stock some very nice hardware. 🙂 Look it up.

    Firearms have to be delivered to an FFL, but guess what – most of the large Military Exchanges have a contract FFL on site to handle the sale.
    Somehow I think the clowns at this event might have a very hard time closing that “loophole”. 🙂

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      Hey Gunny, STFU, most respectfully, please.

      Don’t get the fridge elements started on that.

      Personally, I don’t see a problem with most military personnel owning weapons, they’ve had the background check, psych profile, and training that I feel is necessary.

      1. avatar Miner Never A 49er says:

        Miner49er writes “…training that I feel is necessary…”

        There ya go, another look into the mind of authoritarian.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Nope, I’m a realist.

          Actually, I think national service, similar to European countries, should be considered. Not everyone goes in the military, you can serve your country in a multitude of ways, similar to the civilian conservation Corps of the 30s.
          You know, the CCC played a vital role in training America’s fighting folks for the coming combat in World War II.

          And even well-trained young men can make some bad decisions on occasion, testosterone and alcohol mixed with gun powder can be a bad combination.

          There is a reason private arms are kept in the arms room on base, testosterone filled 19-year-olds can exercise exceedingly poor judgment.

  17. avatar Joe_thousandaire says:

    Thanks for taking that *ahem* bullet for us.

  18. avatar MB says:

    Title should be “Convention of the worlds biggest liars and morons.” I can’t believe 100 people in the whole country would vote for these scum.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Title should be “Convention of the worlds biggest liars and morons.”

      “Incident at Farpoint” comes to mind.

      1. avatar CarlosT says:

        Trio’s “beer can” hairdo… What a classic.

        1. avatar CarlosT says:

          Um, Troi. Thanks, autocorrect.

      2. avatar MB says:

        As a Startrek fan, I concur.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “As a Startrek fan, I concur.”

          I have fond memories (and a painting bought at auction) of my very first StarCon.

  19. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    And so this is not just a question about policy. This is a question about power. — Mayor Pete Butigieg

    As it turns out, there was at least one true and accurate statement at that event.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      And Mayor Pete’s statement was not just true and accurate, it was PROFOUNDLY true and accurate.

      1. avatar Just Saying says:

        Mayor Pete credits the “AR” guys with that statement, as they whispered it in his ear in his many many restroom visits.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Now that there was FUNNY!

          It’s a good thing I wasn’t drinking anything when I read your comment! (I haven’t laughed this hard in quite a long time.)

  20. avatar GS650G says:

    When they, the democrats, have the courage to call for seriously punishing criminals and holding the accountable I’ll listen to what they have to say. For now all they do is talk about punishing law abiding people and taking away their means to protect themselves.

    But for that to happen they would need to turn on people who support democrats.

    1. avatar Someone says:

      Why would they do such a thing? They need those criminals! That’s why they promise to let them out of prisons. More crime means more power for them and harder regulations for us, non criminals.

    2. avatar Miner49er says:

      Well, the Democrats do have a history of going after career criminals, remember the talk of the super predators?

      And it was bill Clinton’s signature on the three strikes law, aimed at career criminals. His DOJ encouraged prosecutors to go after the hardened criminals who are committing most of the crime:

      “Under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, we have a powerful new federal tool, the so-called “Three Strikes, You’re Out” provision, to help us deal with violent repeat offenders.

      This provision should play a key role in every district’s anti-violent crime strategy. To help us make the most effective use possible of this potential tool, please ensure that state and local prosecutors are aware of the federal “Three Strikes” provision and your willingness to coordinate prosecutive decisions in cases that are “Three Strikes”-eligible. You should have in place a referral mechanism, perhaps through your violent crime working group, to ensure that appropriate “Three Strikes” cases are presented to you for potential prosecution.”

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:


        Virtually all (90% or more) violent crime occurs in urban centers which Democrats have controlled for 50+ years. It is because those very Democrat prosecutors and judges in those urban centers were not putting violent criminals away that someone decided we needed the “Three strikes” violent crime law.

        As if that is not a serious enough indictment of Democrat failure to lock away violent criminals, the very solution itself removes any doubt: the law itself does not take violent crime seriously until an attacker has viciously attacked at least three times! Why wasn’t it serious the first time or the second time that a violent attacker viciously attacked someone?

      2. avatar Big Bill says:

        The majority (many say the vast majority) of those put away under the three strikes law were petty criminals, and most of them for crimes connected with drugs; either selling on the street (the lower rung of the business) or to support a habit. This was done specifically to “demonstrate” that they were serious about crime, when in fact the impact was as close to nil as they could get. The reason: the Dems need victims, and crime victims are really handy.
        This is why they continue to push policies that disarm the law-abiding; if they disarmed the actual criminals, they would lose victims. (An added benefit: a disarmed populace is less likely to overthrow a government, no matter how tyrannical.)

  21. avatar strych9 says:

    “…organizers had arranged for a safe space, a “decompression zone”…”

    So was it open or a cash bar?

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      However, I think it was more like coloring books, crayons, and Play-doh.

    2. avatar Hannibal and the Elephants says:

      And yet I really thought that they are completely stupid, go figure. Turns out even they are not so stupid as not to realize the need for a “decompression zone” before all the fallacies and twisted logic melts the listeners’ brains into a puddle of mush. Oh carp! I guess it is too late for the speakers they did not “decompress” in time or looked the Medusa of their policies directly in the face before what they had of a brain totally liquefied.

  22. avatar CarlosT says:

    (A) n assault weapon was “designed to kill a lot of human beings quickly. It’s the design of the thing. It has no place on our streets, it’s a weapon of war, and isn’t part of the Second Amendment.”


    1) If “assault weapons” are solely about rapid mass murder, why has every assault weapons ban specifically exempted the police? The most recent proposal I saw explicitly exempted campus police. Can we get specifics, please, on the scenarios where campus police need to “kill a lot of human beings quickly”?

    2) “Weapons of war” are precisely what the Second Amendment is about. Those are exactly the arms that are needed to secure freedom against tyranny, the kinds of weapons that citizens would require when joining together to form a militia. Everything else, from self-defense to hunting to recreational shooting, are side benefits.

    1. avatar Someone says:

      We know that. They know that. They just lie to disarm the opposition.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Start quoting Miller v. U.S. at them. It is their favorite case when it comes to the 2A being a collective right, not so much when the Court’s pronouncement was that sawed off shotguns cold be regulated because they WERE NOT useful in war.

        1. avatar MaddMaxx says:

          They never saw my little 10 inch double barrel 12 gauge with cut off stock in use in Viet Nam. My go to piece whenever I pulled point, it was a trail clearing beast, barrels were slightly flattened top and bottom to expand pattern width, extremely effective short range jungle gun..

    2. avatar Big Bill says:

      Yeah, your second point there is telling.
      It’s obvious they don’t think very many people have actually read the second amendment.
      And they probably aren’t very wrong, unfortunately.

  23. avatar HEGEMON says:

    The COMINTERN in action.

  24. avatar Napresto says:

    “And so this is not just a question about policy. This is a question about power.”

    Probably the most honest thing said at this clown show. Though not in the way they intended, I bet…

  25. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    And , who exactly knew anything about guns in this group?

    1. avatar Someone says:

      They know they need to get them out of our hands before they start with the socialist utopia program. That’s enough.

  26. avatar former water walker says:

    Yikes! My take??? More M855 Greentip. Mags. Drones?!? I’m getting old and I’m not giving up chit. Thanks for taking a bullet. Oh and watch the new South Park. Seriously…

  27. avatar FB says:

    Idiots, microstamping tech doest exists. Even if it did, a criminal will file it off.
    This is the depth of how stupid Democrats are.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “This is the depth of how stupid Democrats are.”

      It is not just Dimwitocrats and anti-gunners. The whole Hollywood meme of unique markings on/in a gun or ammo leading to a criminal is just horse pucky. Did some looking, and the best markings can do is lead back to the last registered owner, who in all likelihood is not involved in the crime where the gun/bullet casing is found. The confusion (or re-enforcement of the myth) comes from the term “trace”, as in “we can trace this gun using….” The implication is that “tracing” leads directly to the criminal. In the research, I noted that each year ATF posts the number of traces attempted, along with the number of successful traces. There are quite a number of traces annually, but few traces that led to the person using the gun at a crime scene.

    2. avatar doesky2 says:

      The only reason for wanting microstamping is to financially punsh and inconvenience legal gun owners.
      That’s it. Full stop.

    3. avatar Big Bill says:

      Micro-stamping technology exists, it’s just not developed to the point where it’s actually viable.
      It’s also easy to get around, if criminals are smart enough.
      One easy way: collect brass at a range, police your own brass, throw down the collected range brass. Other ways are easily deduced.
      A non-solution to a problem, but it makes them look like they are “doing something.”

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “A non-solution to a problem, but it makes them look like they are “doing something.”

        Actually, it kinda, sorta does…depending on the problem intended to be solved. How difficult is it to implement a law that requires all guns sold after a certain date must have micro stamping of cartridge casing AND firing pin head? That locks out any new guns. Then that law also requires that any non-stamped guns are illegal after a certain date. Then, that law requires all gunsmiths located in the state must ensure that whichever gun they are making/repairing must be stamped, after non-stamped guns are declared illegal. Then, require that every gun range/shooting range in the state have the ability to ensure non-stamped guns are not allowed on the premises.

        1. avatar LampofDiogenes says:

          I see. Apparently, you think I’m too stupid to replace a firing pin, or modify a bolt face?

          Let me make this simple for you . . . if I am determined to “get around” your gun control scheme, however “well thought out” and “comprehensive” it is, I will do so. And you can do exactly jack squat to stop me.


          GTFU, and start acting like a thinking adult. Assuming you are capable of such.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “GTFU, and start acting like a thinking adult. Assuming you are capable of such.”

          I will gladly respond to adults, but not to a fit-throwing child, spoiled brat sporting a tantrum.

        3. avatar Phil Wilson says:

          Sam is saying a microstamping requirement is an indirect way of outlawing guns, a de facto gun ban. I agree. You make the point that, for those willing to ignore the law, it’s trivially easy to get around. I agree with that too, it’s true of all gun control laws. I don’t see any conflict between the two points.

  28. avatar Texican says:

    Thanks for taking one for the team! Don’t know if I would have had enough TVs to make it all the way through this tripe! 😉

  29. avatar thebronze says:

    Spell/Grammar Check much???

    1. avatar Big Bill says:

      This is the Interwebs.
      Speling wright id optiomle.

  30. avatar Popeye the Sailor Man says:

    So, everything you’d expect from a discussion of firearms and violence among people who happily know almost nothing of either subject. I was going to bring up a few questions and comments about specific statements made by the candidates but there’s just too much detachment from reality for that to be worth anybody’s time. Although I do wonder on what fucking platet Yang came up with the idea to give every American 1000 dollars a month and how anyone with any understanding of economics could possibly think that’s a good idea. Probably made it up to get attention in the polls.
    I thank you for your sacrafice of time and brain cells spent watching this for the sake of keeping us informed, Mr. Zimmerman.

  31. avatar Wiregrass says:

    Exactly what is a “hate loophole”?

    1. avatar Popeye the Sailor Man says:

      I was wondering the same thing. According to a little bit of Google-fu, if you’ve been convicted of a crime that wouldn’t otherwise bar you from owning a weapon but it was directed at anyone who is of a race, creed, sexuality, nationality etc. which historically has been more oppressed than your own, and someone calls it out as a hate crime, then you can’t buy a gun.

  32. avatar Anymouse says:

    Funny that many of them are talking about hate and white supremacists. Not that supremacists of any stripe are good, but when you look at the statistics, the top killers of people of color are . . . other people of color. No talk whatsoever about the drug and gang related violence that drives up the murder rates in Dem run cities. Instead of addressing thousands of deaths per year from gang bangers, they concentrate on the Gilroy and El Paso killers that killed a total of 25. Even then, it is arguable from their rantings that they were more anti-population growth/eco-terrorism rather than specifically white supremacists.

    1. avatar GunnyGene says:

      Rulers (governments) must have enemies and problems. Without them they have no reason to exist. If enemies are not naturally available, they will create imaginary ones.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        Democrats,especially, need victims, since they have no other planks in their platform that don’t purport to help these victims.
        Notice that they do nothing to reduce the numbers of victims, just to help them.
        And, trust me on this, they know full well that their “gun safety” proposals will only serve to make more victims.

  33. avatar bryan1980 says:

    I know what I’m spending my Freedom Dividend on!

  34. avatar John in Ohio says:

    Until all POTG stand behind “Shall not be infringed” this nibble and bite will continue. No gun control is acceptable. No prohibitions are acceptable. There are too many so-called POTG that have a hard-on against things like open carry and for infringements like against former felons. Some of these asshats even write for gun sites.

    Tick-tock, you myopic assholes.

  35. avatar TheUnspoken says:

    “Hogg proclaimed that he wants to live in a world where a therapist is easier to access than a gun. ”

    That is weird, I thought if you wanted to see a therapist you just made an appointment and went. I mean, you can check with your insurance but if you want to pay for it, you can go any time. No federal paperwork to fill out, no waiting period, no background check, you won’t be disqualified, in fact they LIKE crazy! Unlike buying a gun, which you have to be a good guy, good at paper work, patient, and financially able.

    Even if he means private transfers, that is just goods exchanged physically between two parties, but seeing a therapist is still no more difficult.

    Even if there are problems seeing therapists, the comparison is silly, if seeing a therapist is too difficult that doesn’t imply that making the gun buying process involve more bureaucratic red tape makes seeing therapists better, you have just messed two things up.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “That is weird, I thought if you wanted to see a therapist you just made an appointment and went.”

      Sound bites are created and used because they sound good, not because they are profound, or even make sense.

  36. avatar Phil Wilson says:

    I’d almost welcome the decay into end-stage socialism to watch some daughter of a formerly upper middle income home being drug away toward a gulag for bitching about the bread line not offering gluten free options.

  37. avatar Daniel says:

    As a tactical matter, Republicans should support Yang in the primary. Trump has a very good chance of losing reelection, and Yang would be the least bad Democrat on gun rights by GOP standards.

    1. avatar Big Bill says:

      “Trump has a very good chance of losing reelection…”

      It’s far too early to make such predictions with any hope of being taken seriously.
      Polls are not accurate even when taken the day before an election (just ask Hillary).
      The Dem candidates are making what they know full well are promises that can’t be kept; many are simply illegal. They will begin to soften their rhetoric as the actual primaries approach, and they have to act upon the reality that there aren’t enough left wingnuts to get them the nomination.
      While pragmatism isn’t a Democratic strong point, their campaign managers know they must appeal to more than the New York Times and CNN to get elected. They need the rank and file voters, who won’t go along with such a blatant power grab, especially when they are being told that Trump’s blatant power grabs are grounds for impeachment. (For those with public educations, this means their claims that they will do by Executive Action whatever they deem needs doing doesn’t quite go along with their insistence that Trump doing the exact same thing is so wrong that it’s not just immoral, but fattening as well.)

  38. avatar Shiffrod says:

    There are so many things officially posted to this website with really pathetic typos and omissions. Please, for the love of god, have your wife, daughter, son, neighbor, or local homeless man read what you have written before publishing. I might actually be able to share this stuff with friends without the high school level lack of proofreading.

  39. avatar Dan from Detroit says:

    you mean the ATF doesn’t track who’s buying multiple guns in a short amount of time?
    because they actually have a separate form to be filled out for people who buy multiple guns in a short amount of time
    also, try to get your nics run in the same morning from 2 different counties and see what happens. (hint, buying the gun in the 2nd county is NOT what happens)

  40. avatar Robert Messmer says:

    Quote: “After the primaries…we’ll see a real softening of these ‘goals’…” Softening as in we won’t have to worry about nukes being dropped on us for not complying, just the re-enactment of Waco.

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