Rep. Thomas Massie
Rep. Thomas Massie (courtesy Fox News)
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Kentucky Rep. Thomas Massie of Kentucky got into a heated exchange with a witness in a House Oversight Committee hearing on voting rights yesterday. The witness, Timothy Jenkins, is a board member of something called Teaching for Change. [The exchange begins at 5:25 mark in the video above.]

Massie, a staunch gun rights supporter and Second Amendment advocate, took exception when Jenkins said, “Let the record show that nobody has died because of their being deprived of their right to bear guns.”

Here was Massie’s retort:

What you’re saying Mr. Jenkins is absolutely incorrect. I had a staffer, Nikki Goeser, who worked for me. She watched her husband be gunned down in front of her in a “gun-free” zone because her firearm, she followed the law, and left her firearm in the vehicle.

So do not tell me, and do not tell her that nobody has ever died because they were deprived of their right to keep and bear arms.

– Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Kentucky)

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  1. Lenin’s “useful idiots” doing what they do best…disinformation and division.

    Let the record show that Mr. Jenkins has not read, nor does he even pretend to understand the Constitution.

    • Get off this idiotic love affair with pulling Marxists into every gun argument. Those evil fucks were following a sick utopian belief system that claimed to support the private ownership of guns, including canon. Marxist-Leninist thinking is evil for different, very different reasons.

      The hoplophobes are doing what they do out of unreasoning fear and the equally idiotic thinking that human behavior of the evil and criminal sort can be prevented by focusing solely upon the inanimate objects instead of the humans using them. It is the broken sort of thinking that the physical object is the easy path to no more violence.

      Not unlike right wingers who’s hot button emotional-political issues can all be solved with simplistic, un-reasoned legislation that ignores any attempt to comprehend unintended consequences, or even the possibility of those unintended consequences. As this place is about gun rights, I’ll not get into what those issues are.

      In the matter of gun rights, the end results of hoplophobic thought would be an increase in the ability of criminals and evil-broken people to hurt and kill good people.

      Thus, oh hell yes, denial of gun rights has absolutely gotten people killed many times in history.

      Just ask this lady:

      • Communism is Marxism with a big dose of reality mixed in. The former Soviet Union tried to create The New Soviet Man who was supposed to be the living embodiment of the ideals of Socialism. What they got through their policies and oppression was Homo Sovieticus who was the polar opposite of those ideals. It is a system than can only motivate through the fear of things getting worse such as being sent to the gulag.

        From another perspective, Communism became a state religion trying to replace other faiths with worship of THE STATE and the personality cults of the leaders. Calling Communism a cult might be a more appropriate description as they share many traits.

    • And throughout this country, among younger people, references to communism don’t ring a bell because they don’t know what it is. To them, those who have heard of Lenin probably think he was one of the Beatles. They probably don’t know about those guys, either..

  2. Virginia Beach. City employee left her handgun in her car…because city refused to allow CCW in the workplace. She wanted to keep her job. She died along with 11 others in the shooting that occurred on May 31, 2019.

    • Baldwin,

      Apparently you did not get the Progressive memo: it is totally okay if people die — especially people who fail to embrace and celebrate the Progressive platform — in pursuit of Progressive totalitarian utopia.

      The Progressive mantra: you have to crack some eggs to make an omelet. Thus, forcibly disarmed people dying as a result of being disarmed is an acceptable loss.

  3. Good for Representative Massie.
    He was courteous and patient right up to a point where where the opposition to his analogy was untenable.
    The comparison makes so much sense. The double standard is obvious.

  4. Carol Bowne waited for the state of New Jersey, to say it was ok for her to have a gun. She is still waiting.

    “Bowne finally decided she needed more protection in her life so she applied for a Permit to Purchase a Pistol. New Jersey law states that a Pistol Permit is to be issued or denied within a 30 day time period. 42 days after applying for a Pistol Permit, Bowne was slaughtered by Michael Eitel in her driveway.”

  5. Carol Bowne comes to mind.

    There was also a case in the early 2000’s where a home intruder was able to attack, rob, and rape a teenaged girl and (IIRC) her friends because state “safe storage” laws prevented from being able to retrieve a rifle (which she knew how to use) from her dad’s cabinet. Can’t remember exactly where it happened – California, maybe?

        • There are just too many examples of trained children saving themselves, their siblings, and even their own parents using guns, to ignore these stories. And yet the gun grabbers do ignore them.

        • The cowardly neighbor should have died from a horrible suicide attempt where he repeatedly rammed himself into a pitchfork bolted to the wall. The dad, was a moron for endangering his children by not having access to a loided firearm. He chose to be a subject of a corrupt government, instead if a Citizen with natural rights, and paid the ultimate price for his cowardice in the face of government corruption.
          My 11 year old son has access to his 10/22 and a .9mm pistol, and I expect him to protect his sister if a junkie makes it passed the dogs. I showed him on a wounded doe, how to use superior violence when violence is called for. He timidly grabbed the doe’s ear and then she reared up on him and he jumped back. I immediately kicked the doe in the head and slit the base of her throat.

  6. A “gun free zone” in most cases has no legal ramifications behind it… If I’m caught with a gun in a “gun free” movie theatre the only thing they can do is have me leave. If I’m caught carrying a gun in a State or Federal “gun free zone” I can go to jail. The Congressman didn’t specify where that shooting happened, in a restaurant it’s merely a request in a courthouse it’s a law…. A LAW deprives a person of their 2A protected right a request does not… There are many examples of people murdered in State and Federal buildings where “under the law” they were actually deprived of their God given right to self defense… (Schools, State and Federal Offices, College Campuses, Federal Facilities, Military Installations) perhaps the Congressman should be working to get laws passed that would allow people to protect themselves everywhere because over the years it has become obvious that criminals and nutjobs either can’t read the “gun free zone” signs or they just don’t give a shit…

    • @MADDMAXX:
      “A “gun free zone” in most cases has no legal ramifications behind it…”

      Yeah? Well I don’t know where you reside, but in Michigan gun-free zones are the law of the land. And there’s a long list of same.

      • I live in an AMERICAN state that says if it’s not on the “prohibited” list you can “request” that guns not be brought onto your property but that request does NOT carry the weight of the law… In other words the mall says “NO GUNS” I’m noticed carrying they can ask me to leave and I leave, if I decline THEN LE can be involved and I can be charged with trespass.. There is a difference between state mandated gun free zones and others. I thought I was clear enough in differentiating between the two, or maybe you didn’t read the whole post or maybe you just needed to make some noise… If you can be arrested in Mich for carrying in a theatre that has a “gun free zone” sign posted then I suggest you don’t carry a gun in there….

  7. It would be difficult to research but if you could find several examples from each state, you could then make a very good case whenever these fools open their mouths.

  8. Lies are merely one tool in the statists’ arsenal and willful ignorance is common to their subservient “useful idiots”. Make no mistake that they will use obfuscation, subterfuge and venality to rob the people of their sovereignty. One must be ever vigilant and preferably, well armed to combat these would be tyrants.

  9. So, “for the record…” the witness proved himself to not be an expert on the subject and therefore irrelevant. Why was he on the stand?

  10. I’m a fan of Massie and his support for the second amendment, but was it really appropriate in a discussion about voting to ask only questions about ID, financial and criminal record requirements for owning a firearm?

    I think it’s far more interesting to challenge what was said about votong IDs. Are these (black) people so racist that they think minorities are too poor and stupid to obtain a ID? That’s one of the most ignorant and racist things I’ve ever heard.

    You show me someone of any skin color who is too stupid or poor to get a form of ID, and I’ll show you someone that has no business voting in any election. Of course we all know the true agenda is to go get illegal immigrants, criminals wanted on warrant, and deceased people to be able to vote. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

    • How could someone not have some form of identification? The list is endless. Usual ones such as drivers license or proof of age card, named credit card, addressed utility bill, welfare statement, etc. I must have at least 4 or 5 in my wallet right now with at least 2 being photo IDs.

      • I have no form of identification. Some smart ass farm kids tried to put a cattle ear tag in my ear, I was forced to pose with a menacing grimace and a terrible sound, they took off pulling the barbed wire down,,, go go possumzilla

    • Cooter,
      I was thinking the same thing. If I was showing up to testify and Rep. Massie detoured away from the subject at hand to talk about 2A, I’d be thinking “what the *uck?”.

      Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate we might actually have ONE GOP congressman who seems PRO 2A (as opposed to most who are ambivalent at best). And, his argument was perfectly valid. But just the wrong forum for him to discuss it.

    • “I’m a fan of Massie and his support for the second amendment, but was it really appropriate in a discussion about voting to ask only questions about ID, financial and criminal record requirements for owning a firearm?”


      The POINT was about civil rights not needing government ID, and all civil rights carrying equal weight.

      If it’s lawful to vote without ID, then I should be able to buy a gun without ID.

      The secondary consideration concerning requiring ID is that you *must* have photo ID to board a commercial airliner. Never once have I heard someone claim their civil rights were violated when they were unable to board a commercial flight without ID…

  11. Klamath Falls Herald and News: Tuesday, March 5th, 2019/Letters To The Editor
    Gun control and racist overtones

    Here is what is on my mind for February 2019: Black History Month. I’m not Black, but 100 percent White Anglo-Saxon. Let’s confront the historical racist past of America’s oppressive “anti-gun/gun control legislation.” Bear in mind our government-controlled socialist public schools, colleges, universities, and academia deliberately censor, cover up, and attempt to conceal this from the public. This is both morally and intellectually dishonest!

    My own Jan. 27, 2009 letter, “Gun rights protect all races, not just a few” remains archived in this newspaper. I allude to the Colt Model 1851 .36 Navy “cap and ball revolver” being the great equalizer. Like a .38 caliber (.38 Special) revolver would likewise be for today’s autonomous citizen: all races, ethnic backgrounds and for both sexes.

    Finally “The Carolinian: African Americans and the 2nd Amendment: The Need for Black Armed Self Defense”

    “Gun Control’s racist past and present: October 6th, 2017 by Creed Newton. At JPFO, Inc. is “America’s Aggressive Civil Rights Organization.”

    “The Racist Roots of Gun Control” by Clayton E. Cramer

    Thus I dare any treasonous socialist anti-gun Bolshevik legislator in Salem who supports Senate Bill 501 to refute what I have written here. Because In all probability, they and their ilk can’t!

    James A. Farmer, Merrill
    Merrill, Oregon (Klamath County): Long Live The State of Jefferson!

  12. Klamath Falls Herald and News: Tuesday, January 27th, 2009/Letters To The Editor
    Gun rights protect all races, not just a few

    I viewed online the Monday, Jan. 19, Herald and News report of the Martin Luther King Jr. observance courtesy of the Klamath Falls Congregational United Church of Christ. I was in fourth grade when MLK was assassinated in April 1968.

    It seems for the sake of both political and religious correctness the role armed citizen defense played during the turbulent 1960s civil rights struggles is ignored. However, a timely article titled, “Remember MLK? Better yet, remember the Deacons at via “Newslinks” for Jan. 20 defies this feely good denial expediency and extols the Deacons for Defense and Justice formed in November 1964 by black war veterans in Jonesboro, La. Their purpose: To protect civil rights activists and workers from the Ku Klux Klan.

    Remember: The Second Amendment remains the original equal rights amendment and thus extends equal protection under the law to all ethnic races: blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, etc.

    The old 19th century Western frontier saying: “God made man and woman; Colonel Sam Colt made them equal,” is predicated upon the historical Colt Model 1851 .36 Navy “cap and ball” revolver (1850-1873).

    This famous six shooter, the .38 Special of its day, defined equality among free citizens and former slaves long before the term “racial equality” was ever coined.

    Perhaps the uppity in society, including some smug apathetic religious people (the churches have both the best and worst of people), socialist legislators and members of Congress, and educators alike, should ponder this.

    James Farmer, Ashland
    Ashland, Oregon: 65 miles West of Klamath Falls at south end of Jackson County (the Rogue Valley). Since October 2016 I have been a resident of Merrill, Oregon (Klamath County).

      • I’m going with the rodentia family…particularly rats.

        When you genetically combine rats and humans you end up with Homo Politicus Rattis (aka. Democrats). They are distinguished by their incoherent ramblings, frequent shrieking and adherence to bizarre, arcane, non-intuitive thought processes.

    • You are correct. It should be “no representation without taxation”. I”m sure people would scream in protest, so we could compromise and say employed tax payers get 1.5 votes. Otherwise, 1 vote.

  13. Suzanna Gratia (later Hupp) watched both her parents murdered in front of her at a Luby’s cafeteria decades ago, because she was afraid of losing a recently earned professional license if she was caught carrying a gun (which she had done for years) and so she left it in her car. This was a major spur in getting legal carry in Texas. The nutbar killed something like 10-15 people, her father charged him empty handed attempting to save his family, and when he was shot down her mother rushed to his side and was shot down as well. At the time there was *no* legal handgun carry in Texas, she had carried anyway for many years.


    I understand the Deacons For Defense during the early to mid 1960’s were primarily World War II and Korean War Black veterans who volunteered to protect their fellow Blacks from the Ku Klux Klan. Too, I believe they carried both a .38 Special revolver and perhaps a .30 caliber M-1 carbine. Though some may consider this somewhat dated today in the 21st century (I don’t) it would still remain a sensible combination. Whatever. Why don’t we hear about the Deacons For Defense via our establishment news media, including our government controlled socialist public schools, colleges, universities, and academia?
    Why is the covered up, censored, and ignored? JPFO, Inc. deserves the moral high ground on this issue.
    Access JPFO, Inc. at JPFO, Inc. is “America’s Aggressive Civil Rights Organization” and is non NRA affiliated. American gun control laws historically have their roots in racism.

  15. See, this is the classic moralistic line that they take: “If we can save one life…” And what this witness did was try to buttress that by claiming no one dies as a result – which is demonstrably false.

    The proper answer to the “save one life” claim is that people die from policy decisions on both sides, no matter what the policy decision is. Almost no state policy decision has zero negative consequences on someone.

    Especially this one. My classic example I read about years ago is the concealed carrier who was accosted as she went to her car in a shopping parking lot. Caught by surprise (keep your situational awareness up in parking lots!), she was tossed in an open trunk, the trunk slammed down, and the perp drove away out to the middle of nowhere. We don’t know what he intended to do to her because when he opened the trunk, she pumped 5 .38 caliber slugs into his chest.

    That woman would have certainly suffered and probably died had her right to carry not existed.

    And of course, we know how many other people have used carried firearms to defeat crime hundreds of thousands of times, many of whom probably would have died otherwise.

    But given this level of bare-faced duplicity and/or stupidity, as I’ve said many times, good luck trying to prevent the erosion of the 2nd Amendment.

  16. the problem for sure is that history has not been taught in years especially not the true history and without learning from history it will be repeated so every student needs to learn the history of ww1 and ww2 and true American history instead of the stuff they have been teaching

  17. Sorry to be so late to this thread, but I just can’t help but add to it.
    I’m surprised nobody mentioned the 83 (?) Branch Davidians in Waco, Ken Ballew in Silver Springs, Vicki and Sammy Weaver at Ruby Ridge. These are the ones I can remember killed by their own government for daring to follow the letter of the Constitution.



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