Flying back from Vegas, I found myself sitting next to someone who doesn’t own a handgun but wants to. Again. Seriously, this happens to me all the time. These newbies think that buying a gun is like finding Nemo. I mean Neo. There is The One. If they know something about guns, they fully expect GLOCK to be The One Gun To Rule Them All. Which it is, sometimes. Here’s my two-step process to guiding people to their first handgun . . .
1. What do you want the gun for?
A) Concealed carry
B) Home defense
C) Target practice/range fun
If the first time buyer wants a gun for concealed carry, I recommend they pocket-carry a hammerless revolver: a Smith & Wesson 642, Ruger LCR or Taurus CIA Model 650. If they say they want a gun for concealed carry and home defense, I point out that the best home defense gun is one they carry in their front pocket: a Smith & Wesson 642, Ruger LCR or Taurus CIA Model 650.
If they say they want a gun for carry and home defense and range time, I say nope. You can’t do that. A small gun is not a fun gun. If the newbie wants a gun for home defense and/or range time, I go on to question 2.
2. Starter gun or one and done?
A) Starter gun is for people who think they’ll be shooting more than once a month. Prospective owners who might want to get their concealed handgun permit after they master their marksmanship skills. People who can imagine themselves cleaning a firearm. I like full-size metal guns (with night sights) for that kind of buyer. Less felt recoil, more accuracy, more fun. I recommend a Ruger SP101, Smith & Wesson 686 or SIG SAUER P226 (for the semi-automatic crowd).
[NB: I know the SIG’s an expensive choice, especially if you equip it with night sights. But we’re talking about protecting life’s most precious assets and decades of shooting pleasure. SIG has a Certified Pre-Owned program, and the guns can be purchased without it for even less. A separate post on “why you shouldn’t buy a cheap gun” coming soon.]
B) One and done guns are for newbies who are not going to buy another gun for a long, long time. If ever. Nor are they going to give this, their first gun, love or attention (i.e. cleaning). For them I recommend a polymer pistol with night sights: GLOCK 19, Smith & Wesson M&P or Springfield XD(m). Their choice, depending on how the gun feels in the hand and how much money they have to spend (always mentioning the possibility of buying a used firearm).
See how easy that was? How do you do guide newbies to their first gun? What guns do you recommend?
I thought I’d like it, but it looks like an old Lazer Tag rifle I had in college…
I have always and most likely (.22 LR permitting), will always, start someone out in a .22 pistol or at the most a 9mm/.38 revolver. I got a M&P 9 for my wife to learn on which she likes, and but she likes to shoot the M&P .22 quite a bit more.
She likes to bring her friends who know nothing about nothing, so Ive been tried a few things and without them having to worry about recoil, then grip, sight picture and trigger control are much easier to learn.
I was honestly surprised people amplify their fears about something going bang to where they almost shut down.
If you want to carry, you should know how to shoot, that kind of thing makes me nervous when people use the “magic talisman” thinking. Those gun rentals at ranges would be great for a person in this case, it always helps to have a gun friend.
It’s very hard to disabuse folks of “magical thinking”, I’ve found. It’s very much worth the try, though. I agree a .22 in either a revolver or semi-auto is a “can’t miss” suggestion.
If you’re convinced they’re really set on buying a single gun in their lifetime, though, things become a bit more difficult…
Ever since 9mm became harder to find, I’ve been suggesting 38spl or .380 to more and more people that ask me that question. The less people shoot 9mm, the easier for me to find ammo and components.
Gimme a C! Gimme a Z! CZ75! For HD or range time, they are THE ONE. Carry, I have a 642 myself.
If the gun is for home defense/concealed carry, I recommend 6 steps.
1. Caliber: Nothing smaller than a 380, .38, 9mm.
2. Go to a gun store that you can rent guns.
3. Find some you like, both revolvers and semis. (Both in looks and feel)
4. If you like the feel, set it down, close your eyes and point it in a safe direction. It fits if the sights are aligned horizontally.
5. Rent the guns and see if you like how it shoots, feels, and that you shoot well.
6. Buy the one you like best.
“4. If you like the feel, set it down, close your eyes and point it in a safe direction. It fits if the sights are aligned horizontally.”
Realistically, how often is this likely to occur?
As an alternative to the Sig, there are the CZ 75 and Beretta 92. Both are a lot cheaper. During my wife’s first range trip, she got to try all three. She greatly preferred the Beretta and CZ over the Sig.
“…Hollywood ATM machines…” = “Hollywood automated teller machine machines.”
And that goes for VIN numbers and PIN numbers too!
The grammar nazi hath spoken!
I would point out that strictly for balance he could observe the beauty of the freedom these bullets secured for those who unlike him were not content to live under tyranny. But that would make me a gun nut who murders children with his thoughts.
I think ergonomics and shootability are paramount. I try to assess things like physical strength and disability, as well as how much desire they have to practice/train with the pistol. I know some people who have a hard time loading a magazine of their 380 pistol, but they can rack the slide. So we load all their available magazines with defensive ammo after a range session so they can make the pistol ready when they need to. They have a hard time with a double action only revolver. So even though it is easier for them to load the revolver they are not consistently getting hits on target. I agree with the idea that there not one solution for everyone. If I can I take them to a range with rental pistols and a few different options. If I can’t do that in person I try to find a range with a good variety of options and staff I trust to point them in the right direction. The goal is to give them a chance to defend themselves and if possible get them to also enjoy a life time of shooting too.
The one thing I stress to a non owner that’s looking is that it is so easy to change their mind. And unlike a lot of hobby items they can usually get all their money back out of a gun they grow tired of.
Also, I usually encourage something like a used p226 for example over a new gun from a less reputable manufacturer.
I NEVER discourage an interest they have in a particular gun that might be impractical for a beginner. If they want to start with a 1911 because they love history or the want a desert eagle because of their favorite movie there is no way I’m going to tell them why that’s bad for them.
I have tons of biases. But I try real hard to just focus on the fact that getting into guns is tons of fun and buying, selling, reading, sampling, and trading around for something you like better is just as rewarding as time on the range can be.
I like your approach, Robert. I often get asked when speaking to the public on gun issues, “What gun should I buy?” I reply that’s like asking, “What car should I buy?” It depends on your personality and objective needs, i.e. “What will I use it for?”.
Does it fit me, physically?
Size of hand, finger strength, etc. play into this.
At one time I thought I wanted a Toyota MR2. Then I sat in one and realized I wouldn’t fit unless the sunroof was open…
Dang right. I’d love a Dodge Viper but I know I could never sit comfortably in one. I can dream but realistically it is a pass. My Accord gets mr around town just fine.
No offense intended Robert but I believe you are taking the wrong approach to this question. When asked I always answer “well, it depends…”. I explain that a gun that doesn’t feel right in the hand will be put in the safe and never used. Also, a gun that is too heavy will never be carried. It all depends.
I usually schedule a time to go to the gun store and let them see a selection, hold them and, in some cases, fire them. I found that, although I love the looks and all, I cannot shoot a SIG for the life of me. There is something about that long trigger pull that puts me at the bottom of the target. With a few minutes of range time you can find out these little gems of wisdom without dropping a grand on a gun that will never get through a full box of ammo.
I do have some generic pieces of advice like get a gun from a major manufacturer and avoid Jennings like the plague… Get a caliber that you can shoot accurately and doesn’t have so much recoil you hate it.
Finding the “one” right gun for any purpose can take significant time and patience. A good friend who knows something about weapons can be invaluable.
If I had to pick the “one” for me it would be the XDS 45. I have 40+ in the safe but this one strikes the right balance for carry and home defense. I can put a few rounds down range with it but I wouldn’t call it a range gun. If I had to choose, I would go with the defense gun. But that is just me.
My point: there is no “one” (perfect gun). Finding the best gun for an individual is an individual learning process – that most gun owners will never attempt. They want “the” answer.
My advice is designed to provide a “good enough” gun for most people who are, let’s face it, overwhelmed by choice and the selection process.
Number 1 is BS….I have a perfect gun for concealed carry/range toy/home defense….Ruger SR9c
To me, a first gun is a lot like a first car. Depends on the skill set on can bring to the table. Just like you know that no mater what you purchase for your teenage son, he is going to wreck it, Same for a gun, first thing is to make sure they know how to use one. Then find something as near idiot resistant as possible. Just like anything else in life, not being familiar with the use of any object nearly always ends in disaster.
Just my two cents but for the person who will not be using a firearm on a regular basis, I would recommend a good quality 32 ounce Louisville Slugger. If they still insisted on a fire arm, I would suggest a wheel gun of good quality that feels comfortable in their hands. Something made well enough it does not have a 12 pound trigger pull and one that is not going to recoil out of their hands after the first shot.
While I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment, allowing people to purchase a weapon without any semblance of training is like allowing someone to buy a car with no prior knowledge of driving. Might as well tell them to buy a chain saw and have at it, still the most dangerous implement allowed to be use without a license.
Besides, I’ll bet any perp sneaking into your house would run like Hades once they heard you crank up your trusty Stihl….
A chainsaw is far more dangerous than any firearm. If your state has magazine restrictions, a revolver might make sense. Do consider that reloading a revolver is far more difficult than even a smaller low capacity semiautomatic. If you need say, over 10 rounds for your safety, you’ll be forced to buy 2 revolvers instead of one.
I would only recommend a .357 snubbie after informing the new shooter that s/he will curse your name after firing it if .357 is used instead of .38 spl. I like my LCR .357 just fine, but those things offer a mountain of full-power recoil that could dissuade a person from ever shooting again.
.44 automag. The one gun to rule them all.
for ccw?
Do the make other guns besides the Glock 17?
Seriously a Glock in 9mm is the starter handgun for almost everyone. I prefer the 17 over the 19 but whatever floats your boat.
Anything and everything you might want to do with or do to a Glock 9mm is possible and usually at a much cheaper and available way.
I agree. When I’m asked about what gun I would recommend for a new shooter. I generally recommend a glock in 9mm. It’s really an impossible question to answer(which gun is best for me?). But I think with a little practice, everyone can shoot the glock pretty well, it’s reliable, and can go without cleaning for a good while, and it has adequate stopping power. Is it a good carry gun? It depends on the person, but it is doable even though there are probably a few better options. Either way, it’s not perfect, but I don’t think they would regret their purchase.
I taught my gf on a .22 1911 yesterday and had no issues. Not a carry gun but whatever works. The gun jammed a lot so we rented a m&p .22 as well.
The only .22 ammo I’ve found to work reliably with my Colt/Umarex 1911 is the Thunderbolt brand, but I figure any non-jacketed bullet ought to work fine… If you can still get them.
I’ve been a bit of a one and done guy when it comes to pistols, rifles are my bag. I did buy the pistol first for the sake of practicality, an xdm 45 (yes I know a reasonably recent start, but I was shooting years before I purchased) . Most first or new shooters I’ve brought to the range really like the xdm, either mine or a friend’s that is the xdm nine. Not very bulky, but not tiny either. One thing I’ve tried to stress to folks asking me about it is to find a rental first – your hand size can make a difference. I have smaller hands than most women I know, and it can be difficult to find even a small caliber handgun that fits. Weirdly, the xdm 45 is perfect for me.
What we Americans view as rightwing or leftwing does not really exist in Europe. Everyone is a committed statist there; the only real difference is to what degree they hate capitalism. In other words, a rightwing newspaper there might be considered centrist Democrat here (if such people exist anymore).
*facepalm*
We have what is called a multi-party system. Imagine you agree with some Democrat policies and some Republican policies. Latewr you find out many othe rpeople think like that and found a political party and gather those people.
That way you avoid the American clusterfuck of somebody voting Democrat/Republican because they agreed more with one party than the other. I find it really stupid that in America if I am pro-abortion and pro-gun I will always be vilified by both parties.
From the outside looking in, 21st century European politics reminds me of a Henry Ford quote I’ll paraphrase: “You can have any government you’d like, so long as it’s socialist”.
Not sure what to suggest since I haven’t purchased one yet. I do have a bersa .22 in my posession, though. I do like that. And in helping my sister do some shooting it’s nice that it doesn’t hurt or scare her. It’s not super accurate though, so she does get frustrated easily.
I’m currently settled on a semi (for a lot of reasons, mostly capacity). Trending towards glock 19. Best all around pistol and carried daily by thousands upon thousands of people. availability of stuff being the other big draw.
I tell people new to guns to go to their local gun shop and pick up and handle as many guns as they can. See what they like, find out what feels right to them, and purchase the one they like the best and can afford.
Much as we debate on it, guns can be a very personal thing. No two are exactly alike. I personally hate Glocks. A lot of people love ’em. I love the feel of my all-steel CZ75, but others complain that it’s too heavy.
I do suggest people totally new to shooting buy either a bolt-action rimfire rifle or a revolver. They’re simple, easy to clean and pretty much never break. But bottom line, I tell them to buy what makes them happy.
I believe that you should use the one that you are most comfortable with. I also believe that you should train with and feel comfortable with all the ones you own. Call your friends and practice to feel comfortable with theirs too. Then let them train and feel comfortable with yours. Make lots of friends that like to train with guns.
When you (absolutely have to) go to a gun fight, take all your guns and ammo; take all your friends with all their guns and ammo.
This question comes up often in real life. Of course, it all comes down to the individual and their intentions. That said, the features that tend to overlap the most people and purposes tend to be something in a compact (say, G19 size), double action, in a mid tier price range. Preferably pistol, but revolver is acceptable. Manufacturers include Sig, Taurus, Kahr, Beretta, and similar.
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I tell people first and foremost get something that fits their hand properly. Then determine what they want it for (target, CCW, self defense in the home, etcetera) and how much they want to spend. This usually narrows it down to a few models which they can then rent and try out.
I recommend that they find a handgun that fits their hands as comfortably as possible in a smaller caliber (.22 or so) then become comfortable shooting it (if it ain’t comfortable to shoot they won’t practice and will develop bad habits that they will NEED to unlearn). Then work up to a pistol that they still feel comfortable shooting, that works for their chosen pistols purpose.
I don’t believe in a single pistol that fits all circumstances (nor rifle either).
True but not everyone has the money to work up like that… going to a range or borrowing a .22 is a great idea though. Note that in some states… like NY… whatever pistol you choose is going to take months or even a year to go from the store to your pocket, so a nice progression is unrealistic. I know that’s not the case in free states, but thought I’d mention it anyway.
The idea is why I like revolvers in .38/.357 though. You can start with a cowboy load in .38, go up to .38+p for carry, and have the option of .357 when you’re ready.
[Mr. Burns] Excellent… [/Mr. Burns]
Let them keep making fools of themselves. Let them spread their lies and hate. Let them say in one word that they’re not coming for us, then make a movie that proves they’re absolutely 100% coming for us, and that they have no intention of stopping once they have the guns from us, that’s only the beginning…
This is the double-edged sword of the Neo-Soviets. Emotional Decision Making. They use it to bring the gullible and uneducated to their side of the agenda, but at the same time, it makes them do really, really, dumb stuff…
Give them all the rope they want… In the long tradition of Democrat Hate (remember, the guys with the burning crosses and pointy hats were democrats), all they know how to do with it is make a noose, and I think most of their current constituency isn’t dumb enough to fall for that one again… There’s no one left to hang but themselves.
The NRA was founded by White Men who bought guns and gave them to Black People. They violated the Negro Disarmement Laws that made it safe for The Clan to Rape, Rob, Pilage and Murder Black People with impunity. And here the Democrats are at it again, disarming the people they hate, preparing for the next step in their plan, as always. Ask them yourself, everything they do is a ‘good first step’ towards the statist idealism-version of ethnic cleansing they dream about…
The Neo-Soviets know full well that the color of skin doesn’t matter. It’s the content of a person’s character. That is why their new version of racist hate focuses on hating people who have good character instead of skin color. That is why, in our current society, intelligence and morality are the two most hated traits a person can possess.
It ties into a conveniently twisted cliche: “Life is hard. It’s even harder when you’re stupid.” The objective is to make it “smart” to abandon logical thought and decent behavior by making life hard on anyone who reflects those traits. The truth is that the above cliche is truncated for propaganda purposes: “Life is hard. It’s even ahrder when you’re stupid. It’s hardest when you take a stand against evil.” Evil always rewards it’s participants. 30 Pieces of Silver, anyone? The Hangman’s greatest ally is the one who lets him do it…
We see this very principle has a very strong hold in the gun community, if I can use that phrase… So many people want to ‘stay off the radar’ and/or bury their guns… What the hell good will that ever do? “I’ll still have some guns after ‘they’ confiscate the other guns.” Really? In such an environment, what do you think you’re going to do with them? TOO LATE!
Doing the right thing is HARD and the cowards are just taking the easy, and utterly useless, way out. We see it repeated in the Open Carry vs Concealed Carry debate. There is always a division between the cowards and those who would prefer to put it all on the line. At what point will we be stronger? … delusive phantom of hope … may your chains rest lightly upon you … Do you people even listen? cold, dead hands… Blah blah blah…
If the time comes when you think it might be prudent to bury your guns, then the time has ALREADY PASSED that you should have been firing them!
How late is too late? When they can make movies like this and it isn’t immediately identified by the common folk as the would-be genocidal hate speech that it is.
Good post. I would point out, however, that while the “neo-Soviets” make decisions based on emotion alone, the real Soviets made their decisions with cold calculation.
There’s plenty of that going on, too… But they can’t silence the clowns, so the truth comes out.
Well, can’t silence them yet…
My friend and I taught his 12-year-old cousin to safely shoot rifles and handguns this weekend. He’s a responsible, mature good kid and listened well to instruction.Turns out he’s a deadeye with an AR-15 and a Glock 19. In fact, he was making the steel ring more than my buddy. He did not like the 1911 much, though, because it recoiled too much for him.
If I had to recommend a handgun to someone it would be an early model Gen 3 Glock 19. It’s simple, reliable, fun to shoot and incredibly easy to maintain. Plus 9mm is relatively cheap and with the right bullet it’s a good manstopper.
If I was going to recommend a centerfire semi-auto rifle for someone it would be an AR-15. Soft recoiling, has an adjustable stock, and it’s fun to shoot. Not to mention that with XM193 it is a damn good manstopper.
Rimfire? Definitely a 10/22.
Even if a person goes out and buys a Glock 19 or an AR and they don’t like them, they can probably get what they paid for them out of it (provided they don’t buy them at an overpriced big box store).
I dunno, I carried my first Ruger SP101 without problem and it was a happy range gun with options from .38 to hot-loaded .357 that could fulfill criteria for all three purposes. The only problem was capacity, which is why I eventually got a semi with double that number.
My first gun was a 1911 and I carried it concealed until I decided it was too damn heavy. Then I went polymer. As the years passed my carry gun has gotten smaller and smaller. Now I just carry a Ruger LCR .357 and sometimes my Glock 19.
It’s the Imperial Storm Trooper look. It’s better than Zombie green at least.
I have given up recommending specific firearms. Instead I tell to shoot a bunch. They will improve their skills, learn about guns and make an informed decision.
I will recommend classes of guns though. I never recommend a gun smaller than a compact especially if they think it will be one and done. I know most people here are in love with subcompacts and pocket pistols but I usually warn people off unless they intend to carry in a very restrictive environment. You can carry a compact in virtually any environment. They are more reliable, unless you get a revolver and easier to handle. I also warn them off of a Glock until they get more experience. Like driving and flying, new owners are more likely to make a mistake and it easier to make a mistake a Glock than a Springfield, M&P or a Beretta. When they have ingrained gun safety procedures they can make the switch.
For a good all around gun, I’ll go with the LeMat. 🙂
I work at an FFL and this happens all the time. This is what I do: I tell them first, don’t listen to me or anyone else. Do research on your own and shoot what you think you want to buy before buying it. Then I’ll tell them “I’m going to start handing you pistols and revolvers – tell me to stop when you find one that feels good.” They will find a few that feels good, then I start talking about pros/cons of each. I have them dry fire extensively, work the slide, show them how to fire a DAO revolver trigger vs. a striker fired trigger (there is a difference!) and after all of that they usually have an idea of what they want.
When I get this question on the street, I tell people that they can come to the range with me and I’ll help them out.
Great advice…
I had a pre-ban AUG for several years – I could swear that the white stocks were available back in the 90’s, in limited production. Maybe SARCO found a dusty crate back in a warehouse somewhere and sold them back to Steyr?
See, one of these, with the Tac-Con trigger group – I’m thinking civi-ownable PDW with rapid-fire capabilities, in what appears to be an outstanding small package!
The stereo pairs at 12&13 are both stunning and fascinating
My first love was the CZ75. Fit my hands well, pointed well, weight was no heavier than others, absorbed the recoil. Just a sweet piece of perfection. Copied by many, but never improved. Revolvers are loud. I got the spousal unit a CZ82 in 9×18. Too snappy with the blowback action. She loves the CZ75, so I picked another one up for her. I carried a CZ75 PRC for a bit, then moved to a Keltec P11 for summer carry. Now I carry a TCP738.
If I was going to recommend a starter or one gun, it would be a still be a CZ75B.
Depends on what I have for sale @ the moment.
Gold tiger striped D’eagle!…LOL.
Really though, I usually suggest something like a Bersa Thunder .380 for a beginner to keep cost down and familiarize them with the manual of arms most full size pistols have. It may not be THE ONE but it is reliable, concealable, affordable and has “full size gun” features. I have an older model that has seen more range days and beginner teaching sessions than I can remember.
The only problem I’ve ever had with it was when the notch in the side one of the aftermarket mags I bought chewed itself up a bit and wouldn’t seat properly. It never caused any type of FTF but I blame the REALLY crappy steel of the mag not the pistol. My 2 factory mags have never had any problems.
The other reason I choose that one to start beginners is because the grip and recoil are manageable for even a small handed woman but not too small for a normal sized set of man hands.
Thank god for zombie green being out, but now I can’t shoot after labor day?
Love the grip. Definitely in for one when they are sold as accessories
Nothing worse than a preachy movie. Movies are for entertainment, not ideological instruction.
And if Weinstein is putting Meryl Streep in it, that guarantees I won’t be watching it (if it ever comes out). That lady’s best talent is appearing in really stupid movies; she’s a natural fit for Whinestein’s pet project.
Picturing that oleaginous duo conspiring in some Hollywood back room is enough to cause brain damage. If Streep is the female lead, run. Just run. Don’t watch even a little bit. You’ll never get that part of your life back.
Nevertheless we could in our moments of otherwise un-allocated free time speculate with some humor on who the statist civilian disarmament dupe will be who plays the male lead alongside her. Or will they stick to the Hollywood playbook and make her an openly lesbian Progressive?
Another possible chance for amusement will be to try to figure out which Hollywood Liberal elitist will be cast to play her right-wing extremist antagonist, not to mention casting for the part of Wayne LaPiere!
I’m gonna cheat…….
If it’s “one and done” for “home defense” with infrequent practice then it should be a “handgun caliber” put inside a pointy stick type thing called a carbine which all family members (and likely under-trained) could conceivably hit the target with.
Paging…Paging ….Paging Mr. Sub200 and Mr. Glock 33Rounder.
An inexpensive 22 revolver, WITH A HAMMER!
Only so the person can learn to shoot. The question didn’t say that this first gun had be be the ONLY gun the person could buy for the next year or two. Once the beginner gets used to shooting, and hopefully learns the fundamental working of a firearm, then they can make a choice as to what gun they want, for the task at hand.
Meanwhile they will still have their “cheapie” 22 revolver to play with, and not be burdened with high ammo cost.
I’m waiting for furniture in fuschia. Or puce. Or green chiffon, which matches my complexion when I see guns draped in designer colors.
Do we really want our guns to look like they came from “Project Runway?”
I will keep watching, but not buying just yet. I don’t trust the Freedom Group. Hell, I would buy a Taurus over this right now. Remington has a lot to prove.
Meh. It sounds like a bunch of marketing hoopla to me. I don’t really see what the big deal is. It doesn’t really compare favorably to say.. The Steyr S9-a1 or a Glock except for price. Even then, there’s the Taurus G2 millennium. All have a higher capacity and are very close size wise. I’d like to see some reviews, but I don’t see that thing in my future.
The SVD has an almost doublestack mag where the bullets are kept in a chess pattern.
Back on topic. Kel-Tec should make a shotgun using a magazine like the PMR-30. If they made something like a Vepr with 10 and 20 round double stack mags they would have a winner.
Heck, they should make mags like that for the Saiga and the Vepr.
I went to the range with almost no handgun experience. I rented a Glock 17 and a Ruger GP100. I assumed I would love the Glock and I hated it. I found I could shoot the Ruger better, even double-action, even using .357.
Since then I’ve had a chance to shoot a S&W Governor, an FNH 9mm, and a Springfield XDM 3.8. The XDM was magical. I couldn’t seem to miss with it.
Your really do need to shoot several guns before you spend the money.
Gimme a 10 inch carbine upper in .357 magnum, please. It’ll shake the trees but nothing would walk away.
Huh. That’s pretty clever.
Lee Metford and Lee Enfield: doing it since the 1880s.
Answered my questions about my PMR-30! Cool
Ummm the smle is has a double stack magazine just saying.
If someone breaks into my house, they’re taking fire. I don’t care what is or is not written on their back.
One of the best cures for ‘magical thinking’ is an afternoon of informal paintball, played with a ‘pretend it’s real’ mindset. Nothing deflates the ego and brings home the idea that real gunfights are best avoided like getting pretend ‘shot’.
Someone mentioned NY. It’s true the first handgun ‘permit’ can take from never to a few months depending on your county but after that it’s usually less than a month to add another one, two weeks for my last one. A week and counting as we speak for my latest one (hope that didn’t jinx it). I added 4 in the same ‘waiting’ period once. Not defending the red tape bs or the requirement to obtain ‘permission’ but it’s not necessarily ‘one gun and done’ in upstate NY, yet.
I carry, in order of preference, a full size 1911 (Colt 70 gov), a compact 45 (Detonics mk6, my first handgun btw) or a micro 1911 (Sig P238) when I’m feeling especially lazy. Shot my first handgun at 6, hunting at 14, ccw at 32, I’ll be 63 this year.
Can’t say I’ve ever had the ‘talk’ with a complete noob. Everyone I know either grew up with guns or have no interest. Never been to an indoor range, not sure there is one within 50 miles. If there is the membership fees are likely out of my comfort zone. ‘Concealed’ means the subject never comes up when I’m out and about, and quite honestly I don’t meet that many people I would encourage anyway.
Many years ago, I owned an original Remington Model 51 in .32 ACP. It was a beautifully proportioned gun, totally reliable, and I could kick myself for selling it. Now, its modern counterpart is available in 9mm, and I wish they had stuck to the original design. For whatever reason, they made an all-metal pistol that looks like it’s made out of plastic. I’m not crazy about ventilated triggers, and I don’t understand why they put a “bow wave” on the slide. That said, I’ll probably order one. I liked the feel of the sample at the SHOT Show, and the caliber makes it quite practical for EDC. I have a Kimber Solo DC on order, but God only knows when that will be available. Anyway, the price of the new R51 makes it very tempting.
Years ago, I approached Para-Ordnance with a suggestion that they develop a .22LR pistol/conversion unit that utilized a hi-cap (maybe even 50-round) magazine. They were, after all, the company that introduced the high capacity concept to the 1911 design. As we all know, nothing ever came of it.
What I want to know is where the heck did you get hold of a PMR 30 for the pictures? Kel-Tec gives a whole new meaning to the term “ghost gun.” (Actually, I did get to handle one once. It sits a bit odd in the hand, but not unpleasant. It’s that triangular grip to accommodate the magazine…)
I want one!
Historically in the US Home Invasions were usually about drugs. However with the economy taking more of a dump and more and more people getting desperate, you are going to see more and more of this. Home invasions are common in England and Australia since owning firearms is either illegal or difficult. There, home invaders just beat the crap out of the occupants with bats or cut them with knives with little fear of the occupants defending themselves with firearms. With economic collapse we WILL see more prevalence of this particular violent crime increase, especially in areas where gun ownership is restricted/regulated.
Home invasion is all about establishing complete dominance quickly over the inhabitants. Either with a gun, bat or fists, the assault is usually very brutal.
The invaders are out to dominate you. When they break through your front door (weakest link usually) which they can do in seconds, they have already committed to trying to cause you grave bodily damage in order to establish that dominance.
Defamation laws are illegitimate. No-one owns his/her reputation. If someone accuses someone wrongly, then that negatively affects the reputation of the false accuser. There is no need for these laws.
It’s a sad sign of the times when I watch the SilencerCo demo of the .300 BLK and the entire time I’m thinking “Gee, I hope he can find all the brass. . .”
Creepy libtards and their love of all things “1984”.
My first handgun was a glock brand glock 19. Was easy to learn how to clean and I’ve learned to shoot it well. It is also the only gun my wife has shot and she likes it too.
Saw one of those in my local gun stores, the thing it much bigger than I thought. Guess it doesn’t help that I also have really small hands. I can’t get a proper grip on a P226 or any Beretta.
the gun “went off” because the officer for some reason decided to point his gun at his partner then made the genius decision to pull the trigger. ladies and gents these are the only people in the bay area that are allowed to carry guns.
Should have been a DG… Wait a minute……
Thank you Kirsten, for being who you are.
Whichever one shoots a 45 ACP. That drops men dead in one hit.
Certainly the thing for all Grand Rapids citizens to do is Man Those Phone Lines. Innundate the police so a liberal 911 call goes something like this- Help Help, a perp is killing me, he has a blade halfway in my gut, hello? hello? hello (recording) Thank you for calling the GR emergency response line, all our officers are busy at this time & can’t help. Would you please take a short survey though? Press 1 if you really wish you had a gun now, Press 2 if you want that asshat george out of there asap, Press 3 if you need help with your “Final Expenses” /// liberalism, it’s not a disease, it’s a permanent cure, Randy
I always have to keep my head on swivel at my place, I live out in the sticks, lots of little critters roaming around that need shooting- raccoon, armadillos, possums, trick or treaters. You know, the usual stuff.
Amen!
Hey, you weren’t there! That old fella was sleeping in a completely disrespectful fashion!
When are we going to declare war on errant SWAT teams?
A major consideration for any purchase is ease of field stripping. If they’re a newbie, strike out any handgun that requires you to pull the trigger or reach inside to flip disconnects or exert a lot of physical effort and dozens of steps to clean.
Guns like Beretta Tomcats, SIG 226, and PX4s are ideal in this respect. It probably best to NOT have a safety and use a DA/SA with a decocker. PX4 type G is one example. DAO guns have crappy triggers that are stiff long and creepy, a kill joy when it comes time to practice. The PX4 is simplicity itself. Just hold down the 2 buttons on the frame, turn the gun vertical, and the slide comes off.
AKs are also available as handguns too, the Draco being a good example, which makes them technically not off topic. These are simple and lots of fun which means practice will be forthcoming on the part of the newbie.
If you’re doing a long gun and can get anything you want, go with an AK-74. The hardest part is explaining how to use the front sight adjustment tool. (90 seconds) Using a screwdriver to get a stiff screwdriver to get dust cover off likewise involves only a modest mental effort & is usually unnecessary. While accurizing the AK can take a bit of time to find what it likes beyond 100 yards, getting it prepped to shoot down the hallway is no problem. Use a laser chamber bore sight to get on target. If you can’t find one in 5.45×39, a Ruger 204 one will also work. Getting one in 5.56×46 (the AR-15 round) is also fairly easy to find. A folding stock also makes it more practical. Compare an underfolder to an AR-15 with a collapsing stock to see what I’m talking about.
The field stripping and cleaning is far easier than any AR and the newbie will probably never have to contend with any jamming issues. The toolkit that fits into the fixed stock versions should be included because it has a slot to flip up the gas tube lever. The cleaning rod is less important because boresnakes just work better with anything. The bayonet can contribute a psychological advantage making a bloodless surrender on the part of the criminal more likely.
Milled or stamped is not important so long as the quality is good. Avoid older Wasrs. Consider Yugos, Arsenals and Veprs. Saigas are nice if the cosmetics of the typical AK are a concern. Saigas can be modded by a gunsmith to take traditional AK magazines if higher capacity is an issue.