“I’m sure you’ve heard this a ton of times but I wanted to give you a heads up for what its worth,” TTAG reader RT writes. “I was just recently at my doctor’s complaining about frequent migraines. He asked me typical health questions and then asked me two interesting ones. #1 Do you feel depressed and then #2 Do you have any guns in the house? Obamacare in action. This is how they will get legal gun owners on a list to fail typical background checks. Ridiculous.” I’m no fan of Florida’s attempt to prevent doctors from asking about guns (First Amendment and all that) but there’s asking and there’s asking. Has your doctor inquired about your firearms? If so, how did that go?
I hate to be “that guy”, but “Waco” is a city in Texas. It’s not an acronym. Don’t capitalize the whole word. Or if you do, be consistent, and spell it RUBY RIDGE, too.
I don’t pay attention to any guy who has what appears to be a bouffant/pageboy hairdo.
Purchased Mossburg ATR in 30-06 a couple of months ago. Barrel is flutted and came with no iron sights. Put a Leupold VX 3-9-40 Scope on it and bore sighted then off to the range. Took 4 rounds to zero in at 100 yards. I guess I got lucky because the ATR has shot as good as my Remington 700. Never a single problem then and a couple of hundred rounds later. Don’t know why others have had so many problems but all I can say is this is one sweet shooting rifle and for the price I feel it can’t be beat. Good hunting and shooting to all.
Nope.
The state and local goverements need to inform the Feds that if they use Gestapo tactics on their turf , then they can expect ZERO assistnace/ support from them. No fire, EMS, bomb squad. If Feds know that they could have to go it alone , they might be less over zealous.
No they know better than to ask.
No, but I have no problem if he does. If you don’t trust your doctor with that information, you need to find a new doctor.
The doctor/patient relationship is the most intimate non-familial, non-sexual, non-romantic relationship I can imagine, though that may be different for you if you are in the armed services or police dept.
Be aware that if your physician uses an electronic medical record (and there are big financial incentives from the feds for them to use them) you can’t be 100% sure of where the data goes in this era of shifting sands and federal rules.
My recommendation as a health care provider is to say no and move on.
Answers like “None of your business” or “That’s irrelevant” equal “Yes”.
There have been some mis-comprehensions of Levy’ analogy of the Second Amendment.
— Levy illustrates the foolishness of the “interpretation” of the 2 A. that “Only the Militia has the right to keep and bear Arms”.
— He offers an identical sentence structure of the 2 A., expressing a benefit to “a free state”, which is a reason, from the viewpoint of the Constitutional Federal Gov’t, WHY that Gov’t would not infringe on the “right of the people to keep and read books”.
— The right stated in both the original 2 A. and Levy’s parallel of it, is a “right of the PEOPLE”. No one would comprehend Levy’s parallel as a right restricted to a sub-set of the people (the “electorate” in Levy’s parallel) mentioned in a prefatory statement. Why then, would anyone attempt to say that the people’s right to keep and bear Arms is restricted to that sub-set of the people (the “Militia”) mentioned in a prefatory remark in the 2nd Amendment?
Yes, my doctor asked me this question the last time I saw her. Went pretty much the same as the author stated. First question: “Do you feel depressed or anxious?” “Nope, actually I feel pretty damn good aside from the knee.” “Do you have any guns in the house?” “Sorry Doc, That’s need-to-know, and you don’t.”
I have not personally, but know several people who’s pediatrician have asked the parents and the kids during visits. I would ask the doctor what is the the purpose of the question and if he/she is being directed to ask this question. If the doctor was not straightforward,I would change doctors.
What a way for a cop to show his respect for other cultures,
“Chief Muckluckfuckaduck, Chief Toomanyvowels”
I reply – “does your wife know that you are having sex outside of marriage?”
No and none of your business.
“Armed forces”, my ass. Have we completely dropped the pretext that we have soldiers to defend American lives with force? Because while we may empower our soldiers to use force to invade foreign soil, we deny their right to employ the means to protect themselves and others while in our homeland.
I went to find a new family practitioner last year. The first one had a spot on the forms “Are there Guns in the home?”
I haven’t been back.
They also wanted to take my picture when I checked out. I declined. This is Maryland mind you but my new doctor isn’t like that.
You absolutely positively need to find a new doctor.
Gee I have migraine headaches too. I have NO problem telling some a###!!e doctor a lie. Akin to backdoor gun registration. I really don’t CARE what Muslims think.
I think everyone is missing an important point. This was Army Corp land. Up until very recently, having a firearm on Corp land was deemed illegal and I think it’s just a temporary injunction keeping it that way. The average Joe could be in big trouble if a gunfight broke out in this situation.
Because its much worse to be fined by some govt flunkie than given the Deliverance treatment by a 350 pd drunken Injun.
Yeah. My urologist asked if I carry a .40 cal or a 9 mm. I said .40 because 9 mm is for pvssies.
My Doc told me I have to stop masturbating.
I asked why?
She said, “because I’m trying to examine you”
Ramen noodles REALLY make a mess on my monitor.
Mine hasn’t yet but if he ever does my answer is “No”.
As to the photo…
Before I figured out it was probably a stock photo, I must admit that I looked at the inscription on the bridge and thought to myself, if I were there and confronted (peacefully) by some radicalized Indian guy, I’d have felt like saying “Who built you that bridge? Huh?”
btw, having some native American blood myself, and if it were actually tribal land, one might ask, “OK, so what tribe’s land is this? What tribe’s land was it before your tribe took it from them? Was it still their land when your tribe took it? No?
Then if white folks had taken it from you, then how would it still be your land?” h/t to old Louis L’Amour.
I had a FB chat with a pediatrician friend (and proud, unabashed liberal) about this issue.
I am including the core part of the exchange (with names redacted for privacy) to give people an insight into the way the medical community tends to think (and, yes, that is a good deal of indoctrination peeking through the cracks in the logic):
—-
•ME:
So what is the origin and purpose of asking patients “Do you spend time in a home where a gun is kept?”, “Do you spend time with anyone who carries a gun, knife, or other weapon?”, and what is the proscribed thing to do if they are answered in the affirmative?
•Dr FRIEND:
the origin is that more youth die from gun violence than heart disease so if you really want to save lives, you’ve got to address this issue.
•ME:
how does an affirmative answer have anything to do with “gun violence”? A very tiny fraction of the 300 million legally owned firearms is involved in gang violence or unlawful shootings by legal owners.
And those likely to use their guns criminally probably did not get them legally and will not admit they have them
•Dr FRIEND:
so we shouldn’t ask? just turn a blind eye?
•ME:
I would not answer. But what I am looking for is what the proscribed course of action is after an affirmative answer.
And what exactly do you think you might be turning a blind eye to?
•Dr FRIEND:
to then educate the family regarding locking up firearms, keeping ammo separate, not on the fridge loaded ready to be taken to middle school to shoot a teacher and 2 classmates [reference to Reno shooting]
•ME:
You know that the root problem there was not where the gun and ammo were kept….
•Dr FRIEND:
it may not be the root but it definitely contributed to the problem.
•ME:
No it did not, it was a conveniently available means, but it didn’t “contribute”.
It had no proactive role
•Dr FRIEND:
how can you say that a having a conveniently available means didn’t contribute and wasn’t proactive?
•ME:
Because a car in the garage does not contribute to a kid going for a joy ride
===========
This friend is a smart guy, but his logic from start to finish is flawed.
If we followed the reasoning, we’d ban windows because people jump (or are sometimes pushed) out of them….
This indoctrination and failure to check the logic links “gun violence” (ie shots discharged in anger, malice, criminal intent) with the way lawful owners store their guns.
Getting people to conflate bits of misinformation with deceptive statistics IS part of the civilian disarmament movements strategy.
I saw a Dana Loesch video that gave some good numerical content: 28 annual deaths from accidental finding and handling. OK. 28 too many. But what bothers me is the way “gun violence” (ie mostly gang bangers and other criminal elements) gets conflated with how people like me treat their firearms. I see this as a very dangerous conflation and recognize it as part of the grabber’s strategy of “effective messaging”.
Getting people in positions of authority (the good doctor) to swallow that pill (often by getting them to conflate unrelated statistics like “gun violence” and accidental deaths and injuries) is paramount to the goals of the disarmers.
All of my Doc’s + my Dentist shoot; most shoot in competition. We talk a lot about guns when we are together.
Using tobacco products is pretty much guaranteed to kill you sooner or later. Please tell me how using my firearm is going to induce a health concern. Well, maybe if you don’t take your Glock for it’s rabies shot!
The future:
“Are there any firearms in your home?”
“How is that relevant to my health?”
“Well, it’s relevant to your personal safety.”
“Are you an expert on firearms safety?”
“No, but this information is provided to people who are.”
Exactly. If the doctor is concerned about safety, then he / she should be QUALIFIED to provide guidance on “gun safety,” rather than just documenting the fact and possibly passing that information on to people-unknown.
Hmm.
Step 1 – set up firearms trust.
Step 2 – transfer all of your guns to gun trust
Step 2a – buy silencers, machine guns, etc.
Step 3 – answer “no” truthfully … and legally when it becomes illegal to lie on a doctor’s ACA-mandated questionnaire.
My doc and her mother shoot. But if the question ever came up, I’d reply “why, you raising your rates?”
My doctor has never brought it up with me. My kids’ doctor never mentioned it either and I’ve talked to that doctor plenty over the years. I searched my clinic’s website for “guns” and the only thing listed is a reminder to store guns safely (locked up and unloaded) if there are children in the house.
My pediatrician asked that question during one of our son’s well baby exams. My wife and I both said “no” in unison. He gave us both a “yeah right” kind of look. (I suspect that is because our son’s medical record clearly shows that he was born in a military hospital.) He recited a list of safety guidelines (keep your guns locked up, keep the ammo separate, etc.)
He did ask about swimming pools also and gave a us a pamphlet about pool saftey.
As nurse practitioner, I have never asked anyone. Or been instructed to. If I worked in psychiatry it *might* be relevant.
As a patient, I have never been asked.
As a parent to a teenager, I have never been asked.
And I live in a very liberal city.
@Chris Mallory,
In reference to myself – I’m pretty damn honest. The vast majority of my enforcement contacts are on both audio and video. That information is available both via subpoena and the civilian complaint process. I can lose my job or face punishment for discrepancies between my stated testimony and the evidence on the video.
You may not believe that, but I frankly don’t care.
Olympic Committee changes pentathlon to hexathlon
I like to practice range therapy. Doctors should learn about the benefits of this type of therapy.
To the questions I won’t answer them in th affirmative. While the doctor may be trustworthy all of my medical records are digital. They could easily be vacuumed up by people who are not trustworthy to deny my my 2A rights with the stroke of a key.
“Breaking:”…. cute
Mine has not. He and I have an understanding, established indirectly. I would not go to a doctor who intruded on my privacy or my liberty.
Yes, my cardiologist collects (and shoots) vintage Holland & Hollands. He recently acquired a Purdy and asked if I’d like to join him at the range to compare it to one of his H&Hs and my Westley Richards. I said yes.
If my doctor were to ask me about guns I will respond that such questions are illegal under ACA. That is he best approach to take. I note that my doctor, actually her assistant, asked such a question before the law went into effect but it is no longer in the menu. My answer was always none of your business with a smile. She already knows that my wife and I carry but has never recorded our firearms ownership officially. Now my dentist is different when he asks about guns he wants to know what I am packing at the movement and I always tell him.
Yes the good ‘ole “rez.”
The author is correct about this weapon platform. I purchased a Daewoo DP51 back in the 90’s on the recommendation from a retired Army Gunny. He said ‘If you want a great pistol for a great price, that most will overlook, buy a DP51’. At that time, I had a 5906, Browning HP, and an RSR 6590 (of which, I still have). The pistol I carry, and take to the range, is the Daewoo. It is lighter, more accurate, and never fails to function. And I have never had an issue with the ‘triple action’ mode. My only regret with this weapon is that I did not buy two more before they were discontinued. I paid $298 out the door, with (2) 14 round mags. I will buy a lionheart soon if it is truly better than the DP51.
I’ve never had one physically ask me about guns, but the forms usually ask if there are guns in the home. I’ve noticed it only at primary care offices, not specialists or anything. I generally just leave the question blank on the form. Have never had anyone follow up on it and ask.
If a doctor asks…reply witha question back….do you administer vaccines? The answer will of course be yes, and ask why he/she is overlooking the damage that the courts have confirmed that vaccines are doing to the public?
I’m impressed. He actually hit the target…once.
My doctor does not ask silly questions. He is too busy helping people. My doctor already knows I carry and my family and I own numerous weapons for hunting and defense, as do all his patients. He will not even ask that of 96 year old female patients he has because they are also armed, one with a shotgun and numerous handguns.
A right delayed is a right denied…
Having read this I believed it was very enlightening.
I appreciate you spending some time and energy to put this content together.
I once again find myself personally spending a lot of time both reading and posting comments.
But so what, it was still worthwhile!
It is surely a feat of engineering to miss at short range with a full auto shotgun. It must have bent space and time.
Is Red Jacket Firearms a legitimate gun builder/retailer? I don’t understand how anyone who watches this show would even consider purchasing their products.
I’ve been told that they do have a large business operation and that the show really only shows a small portion of their factory/assembly facility.
The reviews on Yelp are pretty devastating:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/red-jacket-firearms-baton-rouge-3
They have an “F” rating from the Better Business Bureau
http://www.bbb.org/baton-rouge/business-reviews/internet-shopping/red-jacket-firearms-in-baton-rouge-la-90012651
It’s the same people who bought motorcycles from Orange County Choppers. The build quality “might” be better at Red Jacket too.
A true hero! May god bless him.
Was it auto crash 2 weeks ago, in Florida, got rear ended , at stop light, the guy hit and run, so I had to lie to the cops 3 times, and had to get pills for bad whip lash could not turn my neck, had to lie to medical staff 3 times, and 4 times on forms…this is not my idea of freedom………
“I’m no fan of Florida’s attempt to prevent doctors from asking about guns (First Amendment and all that)”
No. Doctors don’t get a First Amendment at work any more than I do. If I showed up wearing a political shirt instead of dress code, I’d be sent home. If I told my boss to take a long walk off a short pier, I’d get worse than that.
Only a government entity can be held accountable for limiting your First Amendment rights. Not a private or even public business.
Don’t like it? Well I hate not having a Second Amendment at work, so tough s***.
Obviously the man should have simply thrown up his hands and handed over whatever the thieves wanted. How irresponsible to defend himself.
; )
Completely missed two guys shooting a volley of rounds? Perhaps he needs more training. If you’re going to DGU in a situation like that, do society a favor and take out the scumbag perps. 😉
Was this on the TV News ?
“…when two males in hoodies appeared in a gangway…”
Gangway = Chicago?
a small area between houses. generally down south we call them alleys or “side yard”
How do they sell these to non leo/govt people?
At the point the description of the suspects is only “one tall male and one short male” why even bother?
This PC disparate impact bulltaint is off the charts.
It is always a good idea to carry a case of throw-a-way cheap beer wherever you go. Always hide the good stuff.
They ain’t gettin’ mah Nimbus…..
We have friends in Glastonbury, CT, that believe that self defense is a non-starter and that the police will protect them. Never mind the fact that they walked into a burglary of their home and the perp escaped after they arrived. It was probably an after school teenager, but ir could have ended badly. They follow the progressive line; no high capacity mags, no concealed carry and no “assault rifles” for them.
You can’t fix stupid.
None of my doctors have ever asked that. Even if they did, I would have told them that 1.) it’s none of their business (because it’s not regardless of what any law says) and 2.) it’s absolutely not pertinent to this or any future visits, for that matter.
After which I would have promptly begun searching for another doctor.
But what do we do when the criminals are in the government?
http://www.killingmycareer.com/the-sociopathic-business-model/the-irs-wins-373-million-more-line-dancing/
Ob joy. I live halfway between Detroit and Flint. But I guess its better than living in either…
Don’t waste your time on the IWI Tavor from Gun Owners of Canada. You have to be a darn Canadian. Lame.
Eff you, Canada!
The Ill CCW class is heavy on the legal consequences of discharging the firearm. Guns are bad and dangerous, just ask Rahm and McCarthy. If there weren’t guns, nothing bad would happen.
Maybe the defender missed all his shots because he’s a former NYC cop. Didja ever think of that? Nooooo.
“(so he’s like the edged weapon version of our Rabbi) ”
And that’s why I love this site. As they say on the interwebs, “LMAO!”
Nice ammo, when I compared 50 HPR 223 to 2.5 boxes American Eagle AR223 it was only a couple cents more for the HPR. I shoot a Stag model 8+ with a Nikon M-223 3-12x42mm. At 100 yards I can see the holes in the target. I am not that great of a shot so the equipment helps. I put 30 rounds in a 1.5 hole at 100 yards. I sighted the scope in at 75 yards and 3 shots touched in a clover pattern. I started hand loading 6 months ago and still can’t match that. I wont shoot any more until I can find a longer range and I want to try the 75gr open tip match.
The model 8 is a piston operated rifle so the bolt is always clean but it did not take much to clean the barrel after 100 rounds.
The brass I thought was new but it was once fired Lake City, the bullet was 60gr V-Max. Who knows what the powder was but it was real clean Hyper Clean
I only carry one knife during the day, typically if I think I might need something like a multi tool it keep it in my backpack.
After I submitted my post (10 minutes ago) I decided to look into that show I liked called “American Guns”.
And I basically found out that the Discovery Channel is nut-less.
Here is a section that I copied & pasted from the shows Wiki page.
“Cancellation and controversy[edit]
On December 17, 2012, Discovery announced the cancellation of the series. Discovery said the decision had been made earlier, it was only announced in December. A spokesperson said “Discovery Channel chose not to renew the series and has no plans to air repeats of the show.” The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is thought to have played a part in the decision to not even air reruns.[2][8]
Additionally, in March of 2013 Gunsmoke Guns was served a search warrant for the premises by the Internal Revenue Service as “part of an ongoing financial investigation” that had been underway for several years according to an agency spokesperson. This took place shortly after a reported February 27th burglary where twelve handguns and three rifles were stolen by thieves who broke in through the roof of the shop.[9][10]
There was also speculation in the press that the IRS investigation was the result of Gunsmoke operator Rich Wyatt’s remarks regarding pending Colorado legislation regarding gun purchase and ownership.[11] Reporter Timothy Miller was quoted by the Denver Westword as saying…
“Currently, there is no way to ascertain the Wheat Ridge gun-shop owner’s guilt or innocence. [Rich] Wyatt did, over the last several months, become increasingly critical of, and vocal about, proposed gun-control legislation and gun rights. Shortly thereafter exercising his right to freedom of speech, the small businessperson’s retail location was raided by the IRS, and it’s quite apparent, just like the Tea Party, Wyatt and Obama do not see eye-to-eye. There is no immediate proof that Wyatt’s freedom of speech was limited by presidential bully-tactics, but Obama has been known to silence the opposition by using the IRS.””
The cost of poker just went up!
Problem: corrupt Democratic politician illegally assists criminals in gaining access to illegal machine guns and rocket launchers.
Solution: ban law abiding citizens from purchasing semi automatic rifles, pistols, standard capacity magazines and ammunition.
Welcome to the backwards bizarro universe. Enjoy your stay.
Looks to me that Leland Yee knew more gun laws would not affect what he was doing. Just like more laws will not stop most criminals from being, well……….. criminals.
California State Rep. Jackie Speier should be the next target of an FBI investigation.
I routinely ask patients about it in primary care visits, particularly with parents of young children. I generally don’t write anything down however.
The fact is, the people who are reading this site are not the people who need to be asked. Most people here know the relevant safety rules and practices.
But there are a lot of new gun owners out there (which is a good thing), and that means a lot of kids who get shot accidentally because their parents didn’t grow up around guns. You really, really don’t want to be the proud parent of a 6 year old who comes home and finds their kid dead on the floor after playing with a loaded 1911 that was in a kitchen cabinet that you didn’t think they could reach.
I’m no fan of the New York Times, but here’s a rather gut wrenching article about kids who are killed because their parents didn’t know any better: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?_r=0
I ask because I can educate.
Oh my lord, how do you find common ground with liars? 30,000 annual gun-related deaths? What is this clown smoking? The latest statistics show the murder rate in America is 4.78 per 100,000 population. That is just slightly over 16,000 total murders a year. Of those 16,000 murders 70% are committed with firearms or just over 11,000 murders and that number is falling. Hmmm, that is a long way from the 30,000 number pushed by the Hartford Courant. No, I’ll pass on the common ground BS for the simply reason a liar of this magnitude is probably also a latent murderer.
I will suggest a few corrections:
1.) Replace any and all instances of so-called “Progressive/s” with Regressive/s. This, and only this, is exactly what they are, have always been, and shall always be.
2.) Replace “income equality” with income inequality. The only “equality” that these Regressives want is equity in being dirt poor and living in squalor.
3.) Replace “affirmative action” with racial favoritism even of wholly unqualified applicants. Yes, people totally unsuited for jobs still get hired only because of the color of their skin, and that is racism whether the Regressives admit to it or not.
4.) Replace “government intervention” with.. well, actually, you can leave that right where it is. You can build on that, if you like, and insert hypocritical corporate cronyism and the deliberate destruction of natural, fundamental, civil, Constitutionally protected and affirmed rights — ALL of them.
But, hey. It’s your show, Robert.
All those mean awful crazed gun nuts right there in close proximity, and yet nobody went postal and took out the dissenter? I wonder if he is upset that he was not physically assaulted. Those darn nuts weren’t as nutso as he expected them to be. Spoiled his chance to score a huge photo op.
I lol’d at the photo reveal! Nice work.
I know TTAG doesn’t like comments about people on a personal level but the guy’s image SCREAMS “I’m scared of guns”
Do you want to build a snowman?
Eerie!!