By Tom in Oregon
Having reached over 20 years as a police officer without needing to fire my gun, I was about as secure in my career as I could be. Comfortable in the patrol unit, teaching survival skills, mostly gun-fighting. Using some earned vacation time, two workmates and I decided to try a new fishing spot closer to home. Normally, we’d take a 10-hour drive to the Snake River. This trip would be a 2-hour drive to the John Day River for four days of relaxation . . .
After three days in that location, I decided to take the guys out to the Columbia River to wrestle a big sturgeon or two. As it was a short drive to the boat ramp, I pre-loaded my Ruger MK II in a gun rug and put it on the dash of my boat. It’s an all-around great boat gun.
My buddy “Mark” was in the front passenger seat. He also taught at work and at the state police academy. My other buddy “Tim” was in the back right hand seat.
We made the five-minute drive to the general area of the boat ramp, but were having trouble finding it. I finally noticed the driveway and had to turn the land-yacht-towing-a-boat around on a wide spot on the gravel road. As I started to cross the road, I saw a blue car coming. A quick glance and I knew I could make the entrance without causing him to brake.
As we entered the ramp area, we discovered that it was about the crappiest boat ramp we’d seen and pretty cramped for our setup. Then we noticed the nicer ramp next door wasn’t fenced and was wide open. On to the next driveway.
As we had been looking backwards, I failed to notice the car that was on the road earlier was now parked at the gated opening. A really big dude was waving his arms and walking towards us and it looked like there were two others in the parked car about 50 yards away.
The unkempt, sour looking, staggering, 6’4″, 350+ pound dude was in baggy shorts and a t-shirt. He got to my window and introduced himself. He said his name is “Chief Muckleduck (insert two unintelligible clicking noises) something, something.”
He then informed us that we were trespassing on Indian land, and for that infraction we had to pay a $10.00 fine or he and his friends were going to get their guns and “rock-and-roll” on us.
Oh. F&@k.
This dude was loaded up with jail house tats. He had burn marks on his forearms from doing the cigarette burn game. His eyes were so bloodshot he could cry hemoglobin. Then I noticed the U.S. Government property signs on the fencing surrounding the parking lot.
Inner voice: Keep calm, talk him down.
Other inner voice: Holy sh!t.
The first inner voice won. I spent the next 10 minuntes – the longest of my life – talking to the guy. Everything from the salmon run to salmon for sale, to giving in to his demand for a cigarette. Then he made the comment about he and his friends and their guns “rock and rolling” on us again.
During all this, some subtle communication had taken place inside the truck. I checked with Mark and he had his GLOCK 26 on his belt. Tim left his gat in the camper back at the camp site.
Mark had been staring at the blue car the whole time. He was as focused as I’ve seen him. I knew he’d computed the bullet drop, windshield deflection, and round count to put down those two.
Meanwhile, I kept talking to the “chief.” He was adamant that we pay the fine. NO. Then the fine was handing over all of our beer. NO.
I was sick that I left my gun on the dash in the boat. I was thinking…20+ years on the job. Never had to shoot anybody. Had a few close scrapes. I was about to be in a gunfight. My gun was 25 feet away. I was off duty. I was on Indian land. I…we are so screwed.
Then my thoughts turned to the tribal court. White guy shoots Indian. On Indian land. While violating Indian trespass laws. It was getting uglier by the minute.
As I confessed during the Grand Jury inquest later, if my gun had been between the seats as it normally was, I would have put two in his face at his parting comment. Chief Muckluckfuckaduck made his final demand, “So, are you going to pay the fine?”
NO.
He said, and I quote, “OK, I guess it’s rock n roll time”. And he started walking to his car. I let him get about five steps from my door and I got out and ran to the boat.
I jump in. Open rug. Check mag.
Then I heard screaming. It’s Mark. Oh sh!t, I was late to my own gunfight!
I rack a round and come up, gun pointed, safety off. I was going into a gunfight with a .22. I was thinking, make ’em count.
As I looked toward my truck, I noticed the exit-blocking car had driven down into the parking area. Chief Toomanyvowels was still walking toward it. Mark was leaning out the driver’s door, yelling “let’s go!”
I jumped out of the boat, gun in hand, and make a run for the drivers seat. Mark’s still yelling, “let’s go!”
I floored it and we split. Fast. As we passed the car, my gun was in my hand below window level, pointed at the three. Mark’s is un-holstered at a low ready. I was ready to go full-on ramming speed if I saw anything that looked like a gun.
We made it out of the parking lot, no shots fired. I told the guys, “Well, that screws us out of sturgeon fishing. I’m not parking near there so some pissed off, sobering-up-drunk idiots can trash my truck.” So we drove back toward camp.
Tim then said, “Hey, that guy just committed a bunch of felonies on us.” A dialogue ensued. Do nothing and fish, or shorten the vacation and type up reports. But what about the next victim? Some 80 year-old great grandpa gets a heart attack from this guy’s threats? NO.
We call 9-1-1, explained things and in about 15 minutes, they caught the guy. Turns out he was a four-state felon. Not only that, his name was Troy Walker. He wasn’t even Indian. And the boat ramp? It belonged to the Army Corps of Engineers for dam maintenance.
During the Grand Jury appearance, I learned that rural folks are indeed, the salt of the earth. They wondered why we didn’t just shoot the guy and avoid the trip and jail time. Mr. Walker never made it to trial. He pled guilty to a few felonies and some misdemeanors, did a few months and was released. Again.
Lessons learned:
If your gun is not on your body, within reach or in your hand, it’s useless.
While a gun was not used in this instance, the presence of one may have diffused the situation.
If the bad guys did have guns, at least the gunfight would not have started off one-sided.
Calling 9-1-1 from where we were, the call went to Washington state, transferred to Sherman County, Oregon, then on to the state police, since we were on the interstate and the nearest deputy wasn’t available.
How many times has it been said here? “You, are your own first responder.”
Just about any Wal-Mart that sells guns. Some are O.K. at best, most are frustrating to do business with.
Damn, Hoss, hanging out with you could be hard on a feller’s nerves.
Vaya con Dios Otis.
I would have explained that I was part Indian too.
This is actually an awesome answer. It redirects the confrontation and might actually get him to back down.
Very well written. Thank you
Honest question:
Why do you only bring along a Mark II ..22LR pistol?
I’d definitely go with a Glock 19.
I wanted to ask that myself but assumed he figured his friends had enough adequate heat. I’d have a .357 mag myself. Outdoors may have any number of annoyances that aren’t as easily dealt with using varmint rounds and it didn’t sound like anyone brought a magnum.
Too much focus on the fishing I guess. I don’t have a good answer to that question.
We tend to shoot A LOT while fishing. Typically a brick a day. It’s just cheaper.
The .22 is the most usefull all around cartridge for hanging around in the boonies. Barring gunfights and rabid bears.
At current ammo prices, anything more powerful would render it cheaper to just pay the guy the ten bucks……. 🙂
Early in my gun carrying career I didn’t always carry a gun when I went running, just pepper spray. One of the times I didn’t have a gun I ran into a neighborhood gangbanger trying to kidnap and kill his ex-girl friend.
Luckily, I was able to intervene without the need of using a gun, that time.
I said to myself, NEVER AGAIN!
You never know when you know what is going to hit the fan.
Excuse me, I have to go change my drawers from just reading this….
For $10 f’ing dollars? Come on man. Was that really worth it?
Do you want your attention diverted from the large aggressive threat while you’re digging out your wallet? Where are your hands while you’re trying to buy off the threat with just 10 bucks?
Well Eric; How much is your freedom worth? Your dignity? Your right to be free from threats of force or actual violence? The knowledge that that moment will be with you for the rest of your life; fresh in your memory thirty years later as if it was yesterday.
And in that moment will you remember the feeling of violation, the emotional rape(if not also the actual rape), of you bowing down and submitting to the tyranny of a predator?; or will you remember standing up and defending yourself from the depredations of a human tyrant, intent on enslaving you, making you his property, to be abused, degraded and maybe even murdered as he saw fit?
I don’t know about you; but I made that choice when a human predator threatened my life for the paper in my wallet. I won, barely; but I remember like it was yesterday, It is also why I carry a gun today.
Never never never will my piece be anywhere else except on me or in its house while I’m sleeping in bed. Never
If I go to your funeral, on me.
Your wedding, on me.
The only exception is a place that I MUST go that is a no carry. Those are very few.
Just give the guy $10 and go on about your day. Ten bucks is cheap fare to get out of spending the next ten minutes dialoguing with an asshole, let alone having to shoot the dumb bastard.
Sometimes just because you’re in the right, doesn’t mean you’re right.
It’s my ten bucks, not his. I worked for it, not him. In some jobs I’ve had, that would be a major portion of an hour’s work, if not more than an hour. I’m not going to just give it away because some drunk asshole asks for it.
In other news, I just got panhandled walking out of my bank. That does not work for me. At all. I was only carrying three rolls of quarters this time, but it could easily have been 10 or even 100 times that. I went back inside and told the manager, and then made sure he called the cops before I left. I didn’t do it for me, I did it for the elderly woman in line behind me, or the young single mother dealing with two kids that was in there at the same time. Maybe the beggar wouldn’t have approached those folks out of respect for their ages and situations, but I wasn’t willing to take that chance.
If shelling out $10 means I don’t have to shoot an unarmed drunken goon, put my best friends at risk of a gun fight with the other two (possibly armed?) goons, lose my carry gun to the authorities, and spend the next weeks or months of my life (and thousands of dollars) in criminal and/or civil legal battles?
Yes. Here is my $10.
Comes close to the kind of situation I was considering some time back when I decided a better answer just might be to pop him once or twice (mousegun, again) until he loses interest, then drive away. The chance of a bunch of drunken criminals calling the law to explain how they were trying to rob me and (gasp) I shot them seems rather low. In this exact case I would have ignored him and driven away, as they eventually did. If he/they actually attacked me I would defend myself. Give him $10? Not in a million years. Even if he was in uniform.
Peter, what would your mom have said if, in elementary school, you came home and told her you needed double lunch money?
Capitulate to criminals?
No wonder this country has so many problems.
“Then my thoughts turned to the tribal court. White guy shoots Indian. On Indian land. While violating Indian trespass laws.”
Just as an FYI, in Oregon (except for the Warm Springs Reservation), a non-Indian who commits a crime in Indian country would be subject to state jurisdiction pursuant to Public Law 83-280. In states where 280 does not apply, a non-Indian would be subject to federal jurisdiction only when they commit a crime against an Indian (crimes against non-Indians and victimless crimes would still be state jurisdiction).
I.C.E. takes their acronym to heart…
Chase has done something really proactive with regard to ATM safety. They’re inside the banks foyer and accessed 24 hours a day with you debit card, swiped through a reader at the door. Plenty of glass to see nobody is waiting for you inside, and plenty of the same glass and lights to survey your exit route, and relatively safe while you’re inside. Nothing’s perfect, but short of 24 hour armed security this setup ain’t bad.
Glad you guys are ok! Talk about SHTF.
Pot, Kettle…
If you were where this bridge is you would have even bigger problems as it is in Echo Bay Canada. You can’t take handguns in Canada.
Funny how these twist want to talk about the long-haired, self-serving, but the simplest one of all, they want no part of.
Funny how everyone is getting hung up on the $10 demand, while forgetting the fact that the demand was made with a threat that he would shoot them.
Hint: Focus more on the “I’m going to start killing people” part of this story.
And remember, as always, never go full Yeager.
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I’m just sure the nice man would have let them go, if he got his 10 wampum.
No, actually I have a feeling the $10 demand was just to see how easy the stranger would be to roll.
+1 Matt. Hanging out at a BANK is really rude. Asking for $ with an implied threat is just BS. Anyone remember Bernard Goetz ? 4 young thugs “asking” for $5.
This is why my dad packed his .357 magnum around Oregon when we were outside of the city camping, fishing or hiking. You never know when a dirt bag will decide he wants your stuff.
Ditch the .22 and the G26 for a G23 and an AK. Much better Indian tamers.
(What kind of knuckleheads go running around the woods without real firepower? Ever seen Deliverance?)
To those talking about the $10 “fee”: learn a little bit of reality. Do you think a 4-state felon willing to threaten a life for “$10” is legitimate? Or lying about being on Indian land? Or being an Indian? Did you also believe the Obamacare promises?
Why don’t you pull out your wallet, with your cash, cards, and personal info? That’s when a whole lot of thieves say “I’ll take the whole thing.”
The safest best is to assume that a politician or a crook (but I repeat myself) is lying. They want as much money as they can get. You don’t shoot because of the alleged dollar amount. You react in defense of the threat against your life.
Tom in Oregon: Thanks for relating your story. It’s interesting to see how a trained LEO handled an off duty confrontation. One of the lessons learned – for me anyway – is to try to deescalate the situation while constantly formulating a Plan B…and Plan C…in case things go south. The other lesson learned was the follow up actions you took that resulted in the successful prosecution of the thugs.
Stay safe, thanks for what you do.
Great story Tom. Verbal judo and GTFO and call the cops.
Smart use of force continuum, and less paperwork that way too….;)
Thanks.
I used stuff from hostage negotiation classes, verbal judo classes, and repeated trial and error a thousand times more than I ever drew my gun on duty.
This one just had that feeling.
When I saw the guys rap sheet the following week, I figured my gut was still reading things right.
He was a real bad dude.
The key to immortality, is to live a life worth remembering. Your legacy carries on. May you rest in peace, good sir.
Just had a back doctor appointment and they had a huge slew of new questions concerning feeling down, depressed, etc. I was waiting for the guns question but it never came up.
He asks if i’ve gotten anything new. His collection makes mine hold its manhood cheap.
Same here. My doc is a U.S. Cavalry reenactor, and is into late 19th/early 20th century arms and gear.
I’ve got my physical scheduled. My doc is pretty left leaning. The only reason I keep her, is she knows her stuff.
I’m going to let her know, (if she asked the questions), that I will find another doc who doesn’t ask irrelevant questions.
Yes, but only as friends. I taught him to shoot. He’s the doctor for our city’s SWAT team. He never makes “official” inquiries of his patients.
So next time there is a criminal act up here can we use pictures of your neighborhood in the description of the event? Dont matter if you live couple thousand miles away. It seems TTAG needed a pic of some misbehaving “Chiefs” and just any old pic would do. Fabulous journalism.
Mine – VA Medical Center – keeps asking if I’m depressed or if I have PTSD. Every time I go in, questions get asked again. So far no firearms questions.
I took an NRA protection outside the home course with my eye doctor, and we talk guns way more than eyes. And my general practitioner swears by his Kimber. But they haven’t asked me yet in an office visit.
Yes, and I lied on the intake form. None of their business.
I’d spend 1000 on ammo and an IDPA membership.
That’s not a hairdo. It’s a pathetic RUG LOL
Chubacabra’s fur.
I don’t mind the editorial, what I mind is I can’t shake the mental image of his stupid haircut bobbing as he types, with a little wise-ass smirk as he puts that zinger in.
The internet, the editorial pages of papers, etc etc. There was a time on this planet where people actually tried to make their point without being swarmy. More specifically, people like this Robert Redford wannabe, because they liked having most of their teeth, and wanted to keep it that way.
I wonder which Marriott in Montana he heads up to for…..ahem….cowboy-ing once a year. And I wonder where he takes him to dinner when they’re done.
Dutch silent SWAT team? Man I love the weekend caption pics, don’t you?
I think they shot themselves in the foot [YET AGAIN] with this one.
1. If you read it very quickly, your brain inserts stuff and sees “Reality always catches up with fantasy in the end. Gun fantasy now.”
2, Others brought up the subliminal reference to the cop in the right panel.
3. The ridiculous MDA logo is in the same panel. Does it signals their desire to “end?”
Doc asked my wife about this last week, she lied her ass off.
It’s a double edged sword, really. I mean, everyone should have their rights, but if they decide to reoffend, not only will they be able to have very easy legal access to a weapon, it would be like adding a gallon’s worth of petrol to the anti’s already oversized fire.
But then again, maybe we should give them their rights for the very reason that it would piss the antis right off! 🙂
Glad you’re ok Tom, and glad it didn’t turn into a shootout over $10. As a fellow resident of Oregon, I appreciate the heads up on this kind of crap. I do a lot of hiking, and this sort of thing could easily happen at a trailhead, way out of cell range.
Another interesting part of this story is the cash demand, I rarely carry cash on me anymore. I couldn’t have given them much more than spare change if I had wanted to.
Not exactly. My kid’s pediatrician on our first visit, rather than ask about guns in the house simply said that as a matter of safety, if I do have guns in the house, to try to keep them locked up and out of children’s reach.
Well lets see First, put a bump fire stock on it (a metal one) a drum mag and there you go. Second yea you can build it but as usual you can’t sell it. Will bought a building????? Same old Garbage…….
How about this: “Before I prescribe you SSRIs, I need to know if you have access to firearms.”
I’m okay with that.
“chief, how would you like to meet John Moses Browning? Oh, you wouldn’t like to meet him? Then I suggest go back from where you came.”
Follow the brown stains on the pavement. Unless they ditch their shorts in a dumpster you’ll find them.
It’s so nice to hear that all that work potentially saved a life and potentially saved a child from losing their father. Do it for the children!!!
One of Sergei Eisenstein’s less-successful films….
He shouldn’t have fired a round!! Instead he should have thrown all of his required permits at them!! No way they would have survived that barrage of incoming!!
There was a brief period in which the biathlon was altered for fear that a skier’s poles could be used as a weapon. This period did not last.
The only thing I want to see on an episode of SOG is for Willy to finally have one of his bad ideas and sloppy executions go kB! and take a couple of fingers off.
I’m glad to hear you survived and that creep is back in jail. Just wondering about your adrenaline level at the time and if you felt it would affect your accuracy etc?
You got out of a semi-bad situation clean (but for the paperwork), and like they say in aviation: Any landing that you walk away from is a good one.
There’s a lot of lessons in this article. ID clues. Behavioral clues. Situational clues. Rule #1 is “Be Informed”.
Thank you.
Charlie
Just watched the “Steel tornado” show… Really ? I’ll start by the gun welds, if I bought a gun that had welds like that I’d be more than pissed, second, I paid for 3 fully auto shotguns, (if you watch the show with a dvr, you can tell that only “1” barrel is firing most of the time with the bottom shot gun firing once or twice, the third, upper right hand side of the screen NEVER FIRES… Sadly, this gun like most is only a dream of a person with more money then brains… I applaud him and thank him for defending our country in The Marine Corp, but he is NOT a very good “Gun smith” and I am using that term loosely….
2nd, if an EMPLOYEE of mine was to step up and talk to me (the owner) like that and flat out say “Make me CEO” Id have fired him on the spot, My company, if it fails, so be it, it would fail my way, not by the hands of a retired school teacher that has NO MANAGEMENT SKILLS AT ALL….just saying….
Dugan Ashley 2016
This bitch just never jams
Run ins with tribal police suck, I’ll leave it at that.
By the way the reply button is till missing on the mobile version of the website in the comments.
And Sony should ban guns from any films they finance. I don’t own any SONY stock, and the other studios could use some help.
The ban does imply, really, that someone might unfairly win the contest simply by including a gun in their photo. Nice.
I am pleased and surprised that so few modern terrorists have used fire based attacks. It has been done on American soil before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Army_of_Manhattan
The American West is a tinderbox 6 months out of 12. I would imagine some of the recent wild fires might be ideologically driven. If not, it is only a matter of time.
I don’t know about seizing the weapons, but disturbing the peace is understandable. If you have a neighbor next door, don’t shoot your guns. That’s common sense. I wouldn’t want my next door neighbor shooting guns next door either. Go to a damn range. I mean, one shot once in a while wouldn’t bother me, but sitting next door and shooting a lot would piss me off.
What I don’t understand is this:
a) why wasn’t this letter issued prior to the raid,
b) along with a cease-and-desist order?
c) thereby removing any need for the raid where there was a question as what it was about?
Because the amount of time that the parties involved spent consulting with the ATF, sending them examples, etc, shows that they weren’t simply giving the finger to the BATFE. They were seeking to comply with the law as they understood it. If the ATF had issued the above letter, penned up a cease-n-desist (or change the design), I’d wager that the parties would have done do.
The answer, of course, is that the ATF wanted an excuse to dress up in their cute little outfits and stomp around like mall cops. Your tax dollars, oh so very hard at work. Again.
“Calling 9-1-1 from where we were, the call went to Washington state, transferred to Sherman County, Oregon, then on to the state police, since we were on the interstate and the nearest deputy wasn’t available.”
Let me just state what many might be thinking. If some violence did go down it might be more prudent to for go calling 911 – even if people died (especially if people died). In terms of pure numbers, it might be better to take your chances w/ (not) getting caught then w/ a jury. How does the saying go? You might beat the rap but not the ride?