This police body-cam video shows Coeur d’Alene [Idaho] Police Officer Spencer Mortensen ordering Eric Byron Johnston to drop two knives before shooting him. [Click here for spokesman.com’s story.] Yes, the Tueller Drill tells us that there’s precious little time to shoot a quick-moving assailant. But Mr. Johnston doesn’t appear to be rushing Officer Mortensen. More to the point, why didn’t the officer retreat? Couldn’t the cop have backed out and waited for some non-lethal resolution? Nope. As our commentators point out below, retreating would have exposed the officer to additional danger. Suicide by cop? Mentally unhinged? Or just plain dumb? Either way, our condolences to both the family of the perp and the policeman who ended his life.
Retreat would have exposed a potential victim/hostage to the suspect (the woman in the porch). The suspect was advancing from a relatively short distance and holding a deadly weapon. The cop didn’t have many options, and they were all bad.
Good shoot IMO.
That woman was already semi-cooperative for not sitting down after being told. If she was in a position to become a victim herself, or worse, another potential aggressor, it’s only because the officer failed to secure the scene and place her in cuffs in the car. He left both her exposed to the suspect and himself exposed to her. Combined, that probably heightened in anxiety over the situation, resulting in his unnecessarily shooting the suspect.
i bet she won’t be calling any police anytime soon
helo gyzz
Agreed, officer was calm on first approach, suspect repeatedly failed to obey orders to drop the weapon and was approaching the officer. The officer couldn’t retreat in that situation without exposing himself and the woman on the porch to an unacceptable risk.
How about one shot, then back up and see? Five shots (like that) is murder. If I were related to the dead, he (the officer) would not be long for this world.
The perp was armed, kept coming forward and disobeying the officer’s directions. Justified shoot to me.
My thoughts exactly, cop was completely justified.
Looks like suicide by cop.
My thoughts exactly. He wanted to die.
If I had someone advancing towards me like that with knives, I would have reacted the same way. Good shoot.
Wait. What about an automobile accident would make a person suicidal? It’s a fair question.
Is this a serious question?
The Officer went in to check the well being on someone who was reportedly in the process of cutting himself. He can’t wait because the guy can be bleeding out. He clearly identified himself and called for the guy to come out. He didn’t, further indicating that the man could have been in need of immediate medical attention. He goes in slowly and finds the guy standing in the kitchen with a knife. He gives clear and concise orders to drop the knife and even gives verbal warning that he will shoot if necessary. The guy chooses to advance on him with a knife from 10-12 feet after being told he would be shot if he didn’t drop it.
As for retreating, it is neither legally necessary nor is it tactically advisable in this case. Once he is in that proximity with the guy, and he had to be due to the exigency of being told the guy already cut himself, he could be stabbed in less time than he could turn around. Backing up quickly without turning around and you can easily trip and fall, especially in an unfamiliar environment like someone else’s house. He did back up slowly while keeping his gun on the guy, which was his only option, but the guy kept coming.
Of course it is a justified shoot, the officer had no choice. Advance on a uniformed officer with a knife in your hand, while being given orders to drop the knife, and you should expect to get shot. In point of fact, I believe the guy expected exactly that as this appears to be a suicide by cop.
I’da shot the knives out of his hands and then if I had to, I’da shot him in the foot.
It had to be said.
And that’s the way they protect and serve.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda, doesn’t matter. He gave him multiple orders to drop the weapons and stop, he did neither.It was completly justified, though it definatly could have gone down better. Cops are people just like the rest of us. He was as nervous as any of us would have been.
If they wanted to raise more money for the rhinos, they should offer up a solution to the lefties: if you can quadruple the winning bid with donations, we’ll give the rich guy his money back.
Of course, this particular bull needs to be killed anyway, because he’s unable to breed, and therefore a threat to his herd, but they could do that quietly after they’ve bilked the PETA kids for a bunch of money.
What’s the old song? “I fought the law, and the law won!”
1. Ordered to drop knife…..fail
2. See #1
3. See #1 again.
4. Advanced toward Cop with knife… fail
5. Cop remembered 21 ft. Rule
6. See #1
7. Bang!
When there are police abuses I am the first to stand up and say so. However, this is not one of those times, this was a “good shoot” (if there ever really is a good time to shoot another human being…..). The man was approaching him with knives and would not stop or back down when ordered. I feel sorry for the woman and the obviously disturbed man, but the cop did what he had to do to ensure his own protection.
After all, the officer had no other choice, right?
Exactly. The officer had no other choice because he waived all other options and put himself and the suspect in that engagement. At that point, there may or may not have been another option; but the proper criticism of the officer is for failing to preserve additional option in the first place, some of which have been mentioned here already.
I think the officer should have told the suspect 4 more times to drop the knives. If that failed, he should have pulled his skirt over his head and ran screaming from the house, pausing to tell the female complainant that she was on her own.
A justified use of lethal force, in my opinion. Too bad. If Coeur d’Alene PD has a Crisis Intervention Team, they need to mobilize them pronto to deal with the young woman who can be heard in the backgroujnd asking, “You didn’t shoot him, did you? Tell me you didn’t shoot him.” Bad mojo here.
Sigh……20 years ago everybody would have said that was a bad shoot.
““I’m worried about him cutting himself,” Woods told Mortensen before the shooting. ”
Why did the cop then further proceed deeper into the Apt where the only option he’d have was shooting?
Why didn’t he just sit outside and think about things when the resident said there was no way out?
They knew who he was, and he wasn’t going anywhere.
So yeah, I think the shooting was legal but un-necessary.
Just another reminder to never call the cops if someone you love has any kind of mental issue.
He had to go inside. The man was suicidal, if the cop had waited outside then he could have been bleeding out. The cop didn’t go inside to shoot the guy, he went inside to try to save his damn life.
But, unfortunately, the man didn’t want to be saved.
I agree they just make anything worse . Even know this policeman didn’t seem to have an attitude Most police could care less about people with mental issue’s they look at them as target practice. I have heard so many talk police down about people Mental Issues . If you get a policeman with that kind of attitude Low IQ macho man thinks he is God personality you can bet someone will die.It comes down n a lot of cases of Poor Training, Bravado complex and the distain for anyone who may not be as fortunate as them.
The thing that impressed me most with the video was the tone in the cop’s voice. There was nothing Rambo-esque in it. He didn’t sound like a badged up peckerhead. He sounded like someone who did not want to shoot.
He could have retreated outside the home, but then what if the guy followed him out? Clearly the cop was concerned about containment – he asked the woman if there was a back door. Any retreat once the cop realized the man was armed with two knives would have done little, other than delay the end result and potentially expose others to harm, e.g., imagine the guy getting out the door and then running away – harder to justify shooting him then – and getting into someone else’s house where he then kills innocents. I would never judge anyone for not using a less-than-lethal option on a man advancing on them who was armed with deadly weapons. What would he do? Taze the guy? Use pepper spray? Those are far from 100% effective. Now, if the guy was just sitting or standing, that might be different.
I think this is a justifiable shooting. It is also sad and the dead guy was a scumbag for putting others – cops and his family – at risk because he was too chicken to just off himself. This is certainly suicide by cop. I feel for the cop and his family. This is one where there was just no good outcome available.
I think Joe Biden will have a stroke if he sees this…
i am actually surprised by the officer’s restraint and calmness throughout. the person he was dealing with had a knife and was moving towards the officer, the officer was moving backwards the whole time and the guy he was talking to was not responding to commands or even saying anything. what’s interesting from a legal standpoint is what a homeowner is to do when he is facing a tumultuous entry. what if you are at home, did nothing, and maybe you are listening to your ipod in your own badly lit house, you are making a sandwich and you turn the corner and BAM, there’s a man pointing a gun at you. i think we would all have a few moments of disbelief and fear. all in all a bad situation, but one where from the officer’s point of view i think he behaved correctly, as well as possibly even the deceased from the deceased’s perspective. police have to make crappy judgment calls all the time. sucks.
Notice the officers breathing after the shoot?
Wonder what his blood pressure was doing.
adrenaline dump.
Probably a bit higher than the guy that go shot.
I am extremely critical when it comes to police misconduct. In my opinion this was a legally justified use of deadly force.
Was it avoidable? I doubt it. All of a few seconds elapsed between the time the officer actually saw for himself that the man was armed (with one or more knives) and the time that he fired. The officer provided several warnings and the man with the knife kept advancing.
If someone is thinking that the man with the knife was not a threat because he was advancing slowly, they would be wrong. That is a clever tactic when you are trying to advance on an armed person. In that scenario the man with the knife is gambling that the cop doesn’t have the conviction to actually pull the trigger if the man doesn’t seem to be too threatening. The man with the knife is also hoping that his slow advance confuses the cop.
In the end a man with a weapon in hand was advancing on someone after that someone warned the man several times to stop and put his weapon down. When that man with a weapon continues to advance after four to eight warnings, it is time to stop the threat.
Oh, and for you Monday morning quarterbacks, retreat was not an attractive option. The woman who stepped outside could be part of an ambush. The police officer was between two unknown people with unknown intentions. That is about as precarious and dangerous as a situation can get.
uncommon, the unknown woman’s presence, the failure to clear her from the immediate area, is the beginning of most criticisms here. I, for one, don’t think a guy advancing with a knife can or should be ignored. Clear.
The question is, was the process leading to that risk good police work. I’ll just say no, and if people challenge it, I’ll simply point to your comment which correctly identifies the fact that the LEO had not made sure of his own safety before advancing into the room. I agree with you.
Completely justified and good shoot. One less violent scumbag on the streets.
It’s a bit disturbing that you think because a guy crashed into a utility pole, became upset and suicidal, and then when confronted by a cop took the opportunity to commit suicide-by-cop, that somehow makes him a “violent scumbag.”
Yeah; I see no justification for that. Hurt, confused and irrational is a far cry from “violent scumbag”. It’s entirely possible he’d never behaved in a violent manner (if what he did is “violence”!) before this incident.
He could have suffered some kind of traumatic brain injury. Especially if he hadn’t been wearing a seat belt.
Of course, if he wasn’t wearing a seat belt, that’s a good shoot!
I’d be willing to pony up $350,000 if I got to hunt a RINO from the New Jersey area myself.
Sorry, but there’s no way get to New Jersey since the bridge was closed.
MFT makes a great product from what Ive gotten to use, and MAN, that cutaway showing all the fiddly bits is excellent. Its awesome seeing the gas key on the BCG slide home, one of those crazy things when you get to see something working on the inside. Kind of like that bodyworlds exhibit.
No offense to anyone, but if you’ve never been in a situation that involved firing a weapon at another human being you perhaps don’t realize the unintentional hilarity of statements like shooting at a non fatal area or shooting to wound.
Only a fool would make such assertions, somebody whose firearm training consists of game-time on the xBox.
So here’s my question: did this officer have a non-lethal device (taser / pepper spray) on their person and why wasn’t that employed in this situation before using deadly force?
I get that it’s a bit of a catch 22 because the man was holding a knife and moving towards him and he was in that critical danger distance of less than 20ft (ie. imminent danger) but, every opportunity should be given to resolve the situation without loss of life.
It’s clear the man was mentally disturbed or confused and did not drop the knife at the sight of a police officer pointing a gun at him and he did ignore multiple commands and warnings.
But, if the officer had pepper spray or some other non-lethal tool, why wasn’t that employed first? I would think non-lethal options are able to be used one-handed (off-hand) while he kept his hand on his firearm (in the holster) or in retention in case the person did end up charging him. And instead of continuously advancing, the officer could’ve put furniture between him and the person to buy time and the opportunity to go a non-lethal route (with lethal as immediate backup).
I realize this is all computer-quarterbacking and hindsight, but bottom line is, if the option of non-lethal force is available, shouldn’t that be used first?
Because it is unreliable and impractical in such close quarters, that is my opinion at least.
This guy had just fled a hit and run and was holding two knives. You want to spray him with pepper juice or hope the taser drops him? I sure don’t.
“I realize this is all computer-quarterbacking and hindsight, but bottom line is, if the option of non-lethal force is available, shouldn’t that be used first”
Generally the standard for a private citizen is equal force. The standard for an LEO is necessary force to perform his duties. A knife is a lethal weapon and it only takes 1 min 25 sec for unconsciousness and a little less than 2 minutes until death from a single carotid artery cut. Cut both arteries and it takes half that time. I believe this case met the private citizen standard for equal force and the LEO standard was not needed and may not even apply here. Non-lethal force could have been a tactically poor and possibly fatal choice.
That was by far, the most painful video about random, scary sounding “facts”, I have EVER heard.
I’ve been running a Liberty Mystic since early last summer, and thought I’d mention it here because it has an MSRP of $750 and will handle 300 blk, hearing safe, supersonic and subsonic, full auto rated as well, but also has swappable mounts so you can run it on a 9mm pistol or 9mm carbine (full auto, of course), .223, any rimfire, and literally dozens and dozens of other calibers and firearm combos: http://libertycans.net/mystic/ …not the smallest or lightest, no. It is one of the very quietest. Obviously the selling point for me was one $200 tax stamp, one 9-11 month wait, and a can that I can use on a ridiculous number of firearms. And easy to take apart with no tools. Cleanable in an ultrasonic tank. Etc etc. So far so good. Not that these G Core ones aren’t badass looking, ‘cuz they most certainly are.
Too bad I can’t have them. Ironically, the countries with the best suppressor laws can’t get some of the best ones, because they are made in the USA.
Solution is usually to get a machinist friend and copy existing designs (or just buy a regular can).
what it looks like:
cop willfully developing a situation where he is legally justified to do homicide.
he knows the guy has a knife. so what’s the point of engaging him like that? threatening to kill a possibly suicidal man? the cop wanted to kill someone, what else makes sense?
Hated cops all your life gabba or is that recent?
You know I enjoy all different types of articles this web site has to offer, but one thing that keeps me from it are the ridiculous comments and the asshead folks who feel that they are so much more intelligent than anyone else that they have to prove it to them……… by posting comments on the internet.
If you think someone is mislead, point it out. Help them to understand your point of view, but the moment you start saying things like “I don’t expect you to have any clue about this or that”.. you’re just making these websites trashy and you’re giving a bad rep to those of us who use these types of websites on a regular basis and who aren’t so full of ourselves that we feel the need to try and prove it (again) THROUGH INTERNET COMMENTS. Almost every single time I read an article on any website that is similar to this one, around 50% of the time there are always people arguing about who knows what, “I’m right and you’re a brainless moron who knows nothing about this subject” and those of us who actually look through comments to see if anyone has any experience relating to the article don’t come here to read through your trashy comments. If you want to argue with someone, get the other person’s email address, phone number, and have at it. These websites are here for information, relating our experiences, and learning from one another. I just can’t believe how child like so many people are these days, especially when it comes to the subject of weapons and self defense!
The deceased had full control of the outcome here. He created a no-win situation, a real-life Kobayashi Maru scenario, and the cop did what he had to do.
A sad shoot, but not a bad shoot.
As for the woman whining in the background, all I can say to her is: what the hell did you expect?
I’m sure she expected taser or pepper spray, or even the baton. But if the cop only had a gun, well, when you only have a hammer, everything is a nail.
The artist crappy art glorifying Castro, Chavez, Ahmedinajab and Saddam Husein. A tyrant and communist lover: http://wedhahai.deviantart.com/art/I-See-David-in-Their-Eyes-57841274
I thought nobody was talking about registering all guns.
I thought nobody wants to take your guns.
If you’re not going to take them, why do you want them registered? How about we take guns away from the people who use them in crimes? Really, I don’t get why another law restricting people who follow the law will do anything about violence by people who don’t.
Delete it? Or maybe just updated it? Either way works for me.
Never ever think that all cops are good cops….I know otherwise and I’m telling you straightup that there were many acop I knew years ago that would flat out agree with my view. Hence….I knew enough about the bad cops and who there were to avoid any contact with these.
Sorry people….that is just the way it is. Hell…my ex brother – in-law was a cop and in his department…the same gig was evident.
By the way, now that Bloomberg is out of office, is the MAIG site still registered and located on NYC, tax payer funded servers?
Didn’t Dirk so some digging on that? Maybe some follow up is in order?
If so, maybe someone in NYC should be filling a law suit.
i have never heard so many redundant terms used at once. magazine clip capacity high capacity firearm clip military styled mag clip??????
Now that MIAG deleted their list, it’s up to the voters to delete their mayors.
Probably a good idea.I hear the FBI dislikes it when their corruption suspect list is posted on a public webpage , case confidentiality and all that jazz……
WANT!!! thankfully im 20 min away from the pro shop hehehehe
I played it both with and without sound and watched the time on when things happened. There was about 1 minutes 20 seconds between the time the LEO entered the house and when he saw the man with the knives. Roughly another 15 seconds went by before he discharged the weapon. This is not a lot of time to think of all the options and potentials. Some of the comments show a lot of deep thinking but I doubt this officer had the time to go into all that deep thinking. Also, I’m not sure that the man with the knives was as far away as 21 feet. It looks closer to me but that could be partially because of the fish-eye effect of the camera. Not having anything to do with law enforcement, my very amateur judgment is good shoot. I’m glad the camera was there too.
While I understand why the officer shot the guy, situations like this are where I’d really like to see police using bean bag rounds from a shotgun instead of firing their handgun and killing someone.
I understand that the guy was approaching with a knife, and that the guy was pretty close (I am surprised the officer waited as long as he did – credit to him for that). But it is not a good situation that people like this are able to successfully commit suicide-by-cop. Nobody wins in these situations.
It’s not just the suicidal folks. You can have people who aren’t necessarily likely to harm a police officer but still present a potential threat, e.g. the guy with low blood sugar who is not in his right mind, the person who is drunk and stumbling around, the person who has mental issues and is refusing to obey commands, a person who is hard of hearing or deaf (for whatever reason) and can’t hear the commands, the autistic person who has no idea what you’re asking, a person who is having a seizure, etc. Using lethal force should be a LAST resort.
Look at how in Vancouver, a bean bag from a shotgun subdued the suspect. Look at how some army guys took some rounds during training … certainly painful but not lethal. And yes, while I realize they are capable of being lethal, I suspect the probability of a lethal shot is far less (heck, the one soldier got hit right in the sternum and was still at least functional, even if his heart probably skipped a beat). Here is another situation where the cops used bean bag rounds – note that a police officer wholeheartedly supports the use of the bean bag rounds.
In the situation in Idaho, the cop went into the house to try to save the guy (since there was a possibility he was going to cut himself up / commit suicide). The cop miserably failed in achieving that objective, and ended up killing the guy himself.
The issue was not how the cop behaved once the guy started approaching him with a knife. I think the cop performed reasonably well, with quite a bit of restraint before he fired the shots. The issue is that he had no less lethal option available … and when a cop is attempting to subdue someone who may want to commit suicide, that really should be mandatory.
FWIW, I’m not blaming him, because I’m presuming he followed his department’s procedures correctly … my problem is that the procedures should be different. The fact is that they didn’t provide this option for non-lethal force, and now this cop (who obviously didn’t want to shoot the guy) has to live with the fact that he killed someone.
They hide their membership but it was perfectly fine for New York newspapers to post the names AND addresses of registered gun owners both online and in print???
Burgeoning militarized police state? yep,;No knock warrants- an obscenity,; Are there bad cops shooting defenseless people and their dogs?- Uhh, DUH.
Good shoot? Hell yeah!
It’s the radiation from Fukushima. It HAS to be the radiation…
Why is that I see people acting like adults in this thread…
And complete ass cracks in the others? Selective posting I guess. Le sigh.
Good shoot in my opinion. With his adrenaline dumping like a mad house, I do believe he acted reasonably. Plus he should get props for not emptying his gun, which most of us can’t say we wouldn’t do…
“Once they had taken control of the town, the vigilantes began disarming municipal police, whom they accuse of being corrupt and in league with the cartel.”
I think a few people here would like to do that in New York.
I own both a Glock and Sprigfield pistols, the XD is a much better pistol. The warranty on a Springfield is lifetime warranty, Glock is one year that alone should rise a flag. Safety on Springfield is the best of both.
Justified shoot, but I’m not sure why a taser wasn’t deployed first. Could’ve prevented the shoot, and if not then you advance to deadly force.
I apologize, but I’m going off on a tangent here.
Scummy business practices that too many companies engage in these days, and why I can’t side with the bullshit free marketeers who want places like that to have no laws or regulations controlling their bullshit.
These types of companies even try to violate laws on the books specifically written to prevent them from being scumbags. Example, my girlfriend is trying to get a new job and through the grapevine HR found out and told her she would have to give ONE MONTH’S NOTICE before leaving, or she’d forfeit all her earned vacation time.
Problem is, it’s state law where we live that this practice is 100% illegal, and the AG even sent letters out to remind companies of this. If my girlfriend was fired tomorrow, she gets all her vacation time because it’s earned wages, and the company withholding them is essentially theft. The law even states you can’t make someone sign an agreement to forfeit it.
Needless to say, if they try pulling that crap when she leaves I’m not allowing them to get away with it. And this is just one company, the company I work for is even worse at violating laws and regulations.
Dang… Go Kevin, I might use the word flounder if I am ever asked to sign something I do not agree with.
I hope Kevin starts a new company and blows freedom groups profits out of the water.
Anyone who has been around small businesses knows that they are hornets nest of incompetence, greed and outright fraud. Honestly the revenue and sale of business dollars here are at the bottom end of business. Matter of fact most of the gun industry is pretty much Tony’s Car Repair stuff. I used to sell THOUSANDS of computers and somehow we managed to keep track of each and every machine, what it had installed, every card and all the associated history, even what location at the customer it was in. Period. This guy couldn’t keep track of a couple of hundred suppressors and his personal guns? Check out the CMP where guys have HUNDREDS of PERSONAL M1’s etc and they know every SN, part and the freaking throat erosion number. As for Remington, the last time I had energy to look at its books it was bleeding like a stuck pig.
So you have one failed business buying an out of control business. Guys screwing over each other for peanuts. Ethically challenged executives and managers are pretty much the standard. Ya ain’t gonna run across Billy Graham in these small companies. Its basically a non-story.
P.S. always recommend folks watch “Glengarry Glen Ross” written by David Mament. Brilliant portrayal of the real world.
There is only an obligation to retreat if it can be done so *safely*.
In instances such as this one, where someone in proximity is advancing on you with a knife, you cannot retreat safely (i.e. turn and run) because it requires you to turn your back on someone in close quarters with a melee weapon.
I literally laughed out loud when I saw the picture. Me likey.
Just found this site, a great one for us loving the Colt Revolvers. I am from Sweden and do have a Colt 45 SAA Centennial from 1971, never shot and in absolute new condition. I love it and it will never leave me until I die…
Regards from Yan Goran Wrambeck, Helsingborg, Sweden
Moral of the story, don’t get involved with freedom group.
I’m mostly unimpressed. It’s not like you’re going to be carrying the briefcase in-hand at all times, so it’s most likely going to be stowed in a vehicle. It’s not really any harder to keep a traditional vest in your vehicle, so I’m not seeing the use-case here.
As for those suggesting that they would lug around the thing at all times, why? At that point you might as well just get into the habit of wearing concealable armor at all times.
Wow, AACs operations sound like a Cluster. Rather than selling out to the Freedomless Group he should have hired a couple people to straighten the mess out. I haven’t seen too many buyouts turn out well and this is one of them. Having said that, Freedomless group tried to pull a dirtbag move and they received the punishment they deserved. This is what happens when people think they can get away with whatever they want.
I’ve shot at Top Gun, it’s a pretty nice range with good ROs. It’s Houston, I’m amazed that they’re enforcing any ordinance especially one that’s pretty obscure. They must have pissed off someone.
Correlation, not causation. Utah likely differs from other states in many, many other ways, thus the variables are too vast to yield a causative conclusion. The good news is that school shootings, even spree killings in total, are so rare that it would be effectively impossible to statistically conclude that a specific thing was directly causative. The bad news is that the same is true – the rarity of these events, and the inability to accurate define a causation to them, makes it impossible to meaningfully pass legislation that would reduce the occurrence.
That said, most people just think mental health and guns are clearly enough factors in the event so why not ban guns and then get cracking on crazy people. But the vast majority of otherwise crazy people don’t commit these crimes, which is also true of gun owners. It’s a freaking mess but the impact is so great when they happen – particularly in schools – that the only way most people have to deal with their fear that something like it can happen to them or theirs, is to go for the easy solution, which is no solution at all.
Typical,
I’d guess there’s more to it than deterence- like young people who are taught some community values and who are familiarized with guns the RIGHT way.
Many kids learn about firearms through fallacious TV tropes, and come to think of the firearm as problem solver- the solution to overwhelming odds. I’d suspect that generations of folks growing up with responsible teachings about guns, and how to handle problems, goes a longer way than being paranoid about what the people around you are carrying.
No wonder Barnes blacktips are so expensive. Not going to purchase anything under the FG banner. I expect many of you to do the same.
I saw this rifle at shotshow last week. After talking with the booth personnel, it has some potential. The action and bolt are stillers, timney or jewel trigger and a hand lapped spencer barrel (MPA purchased Spencer – (bench rest) – last year). The chassis is light and v bedded and I think they said it might also be epoxy bedded. The muzzle brake is a spencer design. Side folder version coming soon. Claimed 1/2 MOA on the sheet I picked up. They also sell the chassis separately. Admittedly, the optic on the above image looks ridiculous, but time will tell. Lets see how the actual reviews come out. I will save my money till some reviews come out.
I can’t help but see some fault from Brittingham as well. Seems like keeping track of your personal and business property would be a no-brainer…..
Especially if they were MY guns. I would have looked at how to replace my personal weapons with new weapons for prototyping. Too much can go wrong and stuff can just end up walking out of the door.
A US equivalent agency?
No.
For one,it’s too politically risky to set up an Internet Gun Division in the US.That sort of disclosure can damage careers.
No , I’m of the opinion , based partly on Snowdens disclosures, that a comprehensive database on US gun owners down to the last serial number DOES exist.Just not here.Congress doesn’t have jurisdiction over a computer server maintained in Great Britian or Canada.GCHQ in London could maintain a US gun registry and Washington would be insulated from negative PR or scandal .
Oh, and don’t think your homebuilt collection of 80% ARs isn’t registered.Even if you never post a photo or discuss directly owning a gun online, your bank account history and Google records would be enough to ID you as a gun owner and probably what you own to a T.
After all, you won’t Google “Glock 17 holster ” unless you own a G17,yes?
ST you might want to worry about black helicopters flying overhead. I understand your theory but that would take too much planning and organization. I am sure we are monitored and I’m very sure there is lists but no where near complete as you may believe. That’s just giving the government too much credit.
I like to check out accessories for guns I don’t own. I am trying to make their list as big as possible.
This is an office in the RCMP pre-crime division, right?
Yup, and they even have 4 Oracles attached to a giant computer. Or Santa like they did in the NSA South Park episode.
Just 6 words. Without guns we’d all be British.
Wait a minute… When a bad dude with a gun sees the circle-and-slash over the pistol that doesn’t stop him?!?
There’s a billboard, not one block from my house, for some TV company that says
“Christmas, Hannakah, Kwanzaa, we all worship TV”
mentioning of politically correct Kwanzaa aside, how is it ok in anyones mind to say that we “worship” TV as if it were as important as religion? I’m not even religious and this pisses me off.
ugh… liberals…
That photo could almost be a neighborhood roundup in the part of Utah Valley where my sister lives. One of their neighbors was hosting an exchange student from China, who had a hard time believing that people were actually allowed to own weapons. My two nephews, ages 14 and 16, brought him over and pulled out everything they owned that could qualify as a weapon and spread it all out.
The whole bedroom floor was carpeted in knives, hatchets, swords, even guns (they each have a .22). The poor Chinese kid just about passed out. It took them a while to convince him that this was perfectly normal and legal and the authorities weren’t going to bust in and arrest everyone.
After he got over the shock, they spent several blissful hours in the backyard with the other neighborhood kids practicing the fine art of knife and axe throwing (next time I’m in Utah I need to have the nephews teach me). Kid’s probably back in China right now telling stories about how in America even the kids are armed to the teeth. 🙂
Ah, Utah…gotta love it.
These are hard things to determine. However, I don’t see anything inherently wrong about what he did in the first place.
Lets assume his actions were best case scenario; In that case, it was good shoot.
Now lets assume, that he could have: restrained the woman, waited for immediate backup, and/or had the opportunity to back up a reasonable distance outside the house without endangering anyone else. We can also assume that most likely, the behavior of the man would either not change or increase in aggression. In such case, it was a good shoot.
Now lets assume the above applies and and the officer has retreated, and the man has de-escalated. There are two more scenarios: re-escalation resulting in a good shoot, or further de-escalation resulting in compliance and arrest.
Three out of four result in the man being shot. You could exponentially grow the number of possibilities and outcomes.
What really needs to be done however, is to judge the intentions and action of the individuals involved. The officer showed adequate restraint in the situation as it developed. The man acted with no compliance.
Was it the optimum action? No.
Should the officer receive constructive criticism and learn from it? Yes.
Was it a good shoot? Yes.
I do love Utah. Rated 2nd state in the nation for gun ownership. A nice, clean place, where local government actually works well, the nature is amazing, and people are nice. And lots of good-looking girls. And the schools are safe and high-quality.
Please stop playing into the enemy’s hands by calling ANY weapon (except an STG-44 since it is the ONLY assault rifle ever made).
Other than that and the 1970s adoption of the 5.45×39 round!? It was a good article.
BTW How many people know it’s stocks you put on your pistol (or revolver) an pistol grips you put on a shotgun with no buttstock, or certain long guns and carbines? 😀
Disabling a security camera to remove disputed items from your place of employment is a shady act. Signing a contract with the word flounder in such a way that it appears as a signature on casual inspection is not an upstanding move either. He wanted Freedom Group money to expand but he wanted to lose none of his control of the business. Mr. Bittingham is not blameless in this episode. I’ll wait on getting any “NFA items” until the law is repealed or invalidated. What happened to “registration is prelude to confiscation?” Doesn’t apply to silencers, machine guns, and short barreled long arms?
I’ll just leave this here: Gangland: Salt Lake City Crips
It’s clear to me the positive impact of Utah’s uncommonly wide ranging firearms stance, but the commenters here are correct that disentangling potentially confounding variables can be tricky.
Still, at least one take away should be uncontroversial, namely that expanded firearms freedom among law abiding citizens does not, in turn, lead to greater frequency or severity of violent events in schools.
This law needs to be ignored. Jury nullification should be the order of the day should the statists charge anyone with a violation of this “law”.
Anything is possible when those .50 cal loads are hand loaded to ultra light with fragmenting bullets. Besides where did they find firearms in Japan, or did they test them in the U.S.?
Hydrogen fuel is right up their with ethanol as the dumbest fuel ideas ever invented. Hydrogen does not occur naturally on earth, you have to make it – first by generating electricity, then running the electricity through water. So, you have to burn fossil fuels to generate the electricity to generate the hydrogen. Or, you could build ginormous nuclear reactors (post Fukyama, I am thinking we are off that for a while). Hydrogen really functions as a battery (electricity storage) and its a poor (and dangerous) one at that.
Plus, insofar as global warming, the global warming effect of water vapor (the result of burning hydrogen) is much worse than carbon dioxide. water vapor accounts for 98% of the greenhouse effect. true, dat.
So if people think I will be driving around with the Hindenberg in my trunk, they are flat out nuts.
I, for one, would get a lot of satisfaction from seeing someone blow up one of these tanks. On so many levels…
What kind of .50 cal used might be a good question to ask. Just assuming that it’s a .50BMG may not be accurate.
From the actual Toyota press release (Click on the “Show Press Release” option):
“They’re safe. In testing, we fired small-caliber bullets at the hydrogen tank and they just bounced off it. It took a 50-caliber armor-piercing bullet to penetrate the shell.”
http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/16/toyota-fires-bullets-hydrogen-fuel-tanks-shoots-ev-supporter/
“Mr. Mayor, are you now, or have you ever been a member of MAIG?”
Maybe it is all those gun safe manufacturers. I have relatives there somewhere. The Mormans came thru NC back in the 1800’s and took a fair amount of my ancestors with them back to Utah.
My question is whether or not they shot a pressurized tank or not. I can see a tank surviving a .50 cal shot while not pressurized. Fill that sucker up and then see what happens…I’m not optimistic, but I am too busy working to put on my engineer hat right now.
Sounds like a kick ass experimental mechanics project though. I should go get a Master’s degree 🙂
Well, how hard did they throw the bullet at it?
If they let some spindly engineer throw it I can believe it.
Now, if they had a strapping high school math teacher such as myself throw it that tank wouldn’t stand a chance.
dwb,
I’m not sure what you were trying to do when you rewrote my post, other than perhaps fabricate the most blatant straw man argument ever. That being said, I agree with the statement you made, but it is irrelevant to this discussion.
That article you linked to does absolutely nothing to support your claims. You claimed that H2O emissions are potentially worse than CO2 emissions. The article you provided only states that H2O is a greenhouse gas and interacts with CO2 to trap heat, something we already agree on.
I’m talking about the magnitude of H2O emissions we could possibly create relative to the magnitude of the fluctuation in humidity on a DAILY basis (not seasonally). Not to mention the amount we could possibly create is still insignificant compared to the amount already there. I assert that the fluctuations are much bigger than the amount of H2O you add to the atmosphere from burning hydrogen, even if every car on the planet did. If the amount of H2O added to the atmosphere by people is substantially smaller than the amount of the daily fluctuation, I claim our contribution is insignificant to the total amount and therefore has as insignificant impact on global warming. If you have something to refute my claims I will gladly read it, but please don’t provide articles that don’t actually support your claims.
I apologize if I misinterpreted your original argument, its hard to keep track sometimes.
Picking one of these up from my LGS next week. (Yay for cali waiting period). Cost me a pretty penny, but regular sp2022 have gone way up around my area. The mag cost is a bummer, especially since it only comes with one. But after reading Nick’s review, various opinions online, and holding this side by side with the MK25 Desert, I’ve concluded that this would be a good first Sig pistol for me.
Striker fired polymer handguns. Their stupid simple, extremely reliable, inexpensive, while also being fun and easy to learn how to shoot well.
The average Joe, I’d say a Glock 19 or any other “compact” Glock in their caliber of choice. Their big enough to be accurate, while just small enough to conceal.
Newbies that feel more comfortable with having an external safety, I’d say go with a S&W M&P full size or compact that have a safety.
Small women with tiny hands or everyday CCW, I’d suggest a M&P shield, SA XD-s, or Walther PPQ. Thin enough that most anyone can get a good grip on them, so easy to conceal, accurate and fun to shoot despite their size.
M&P 15-22. Sig 522.
There. That wasn’t hard.