It’s increasingly clear that the Boston bombing was a watershed event. While the media focuses on the bombers’ past and the possibility of further attacks, the police response to the terrorists is bound to have a more significant and long-lasting impact on the public psyche . . .
The local, state and federal authorities’ decision to order over a million Boston-area residents to “shelter in place” marked a new chapter in the People’s relationship with their government.
Putting an entire city into “lockdown”—shutting down public transportation, ordering businesses to close and cabs not to run; filling the streets with heavily armed police and National Guard troops—is the closest thing Americans have seen to martial law outside of a natural disaster.
Let’s face it: the “lockdown” was martial law in all but name. We can debate about “exigent circumstances” and discuss the legality, morality and practicality of the police strategy. But the plain truth is that the number of cops deployed and the tactics they used scared the shit out of a lot of people.
In much the same way that Hurricane Katrina’s aftermath turned gun confiscation from a tin hat-wearer’s paranoid fantasy into a real life possibility, the brute force of the police response to the Boston bomber has opened-up minds to the idea that government force presents a threat to freedom.
Did you see the dancing in the streets after the lockdown was lifted? Tell me Boston didn’t look like a liberated city. Liberated from the fear of the bombers. But also liberated from the government-ordered and enforced “lockdown.”
So, did the police response to the Boston Bombers open Americans’ eyes to the threat posed by their own government? If so, does that help the cause of gun rights?
All to catch a teenager, who by the way, was found when a regular Joe went for a smoke in the backyard.
You are so right. I think these loosers (the Boston-bombers) now got away too much attention compared to anything.
Think about it – all the resources focused on this lame terrorist attack caused propably pretty much harm some where else.
Don’t get me wrong, I just think the “control-freaks” just do not get it that it is impossible to control every lunatic – this Boston bombing just shows it.
Please, do NOT give too much attention to these crazy people. That just creates more crazy stupid ones.
“Looser” than what?
Sharon Stone?
What were they gonna do, arrest Henneberry for smoking?
……and was the resident violating the “shelter in place” order by stepping outside of his house and onto his private property? What if the bad guy had some kind of chemical explosive device? He put others in jeopardy by opening his door and potentially contaminating the people inside his home. So is he better off smoking the cigarette inside the home, thereby exposing the occupants of said dwelling to hazardous second-hand smoke. Where is the outrage against this citizen?
Smoking – “Saving lives, one hiding terrorist at a time.” 🙂
I doubt it. The government didn’t flood the streets with troops after an election didn’t go their way. They did it in response to a direect threat to the community. We can monday morning quaterback as to how appropriate the response was but at the time there were still a lot of unknowns.
I doubt john doe on the street blames the government for Boston and they probably still support their local cop shop. At least as much as they did before.
Let’s not forget there were actually terrorists who had bombed the marathon and murdered a cop loose on the street. It wasn’t a drill and I think most of the public understands that.
Now, did it change peoples attitudes about having a gun to protect themselves? Maybe. I can see some going and buying their first gun as a result of this incident. Will they become hard core gun rights supporters? I don’t have a crystal ball.
So, by your logic, any gangland shooting should garner the same response? How about bank robberies? Prison Breaks? Where is it that YOU are willing to draw the line for an isolated incident? The US government KNOWS that there are terroristic/militant groups in the US… What’s to stop them from enacting martial law about what could happen much the same way they enacted it in Boston because what could happen
There two guys were transformed into props to bolster the narrative “Only the government has the ability to protect you”.
Yea, your restricting our right to self defense so, ah what choice is being left to us?
They didn’t enact marshall law in Boston because of what could happen. Over 250 casualties at the marathon had already happened. And they haven’t enacted marshall law bwecasue of what terror cells here might do.
It’s all a matter of perspective. In Thailand when we saw government armor in the streets we called the tanks and apc’s “voting machines” because the Thais were going to get a new government.
In Boston I imagine most of the citizens there were grateful to see the troops and armor on the streets.
You mistake what DID happen for what COULD happen.
Did the lock down go back and protect the 250 people at the Boston Marathon? No?
Then the lock down was for what could happen, not for any other reason… And here is a point to ponder.. Was it to protect the innocent civilians from the bomber, or the police? Look to LA for your answer in that one..
Rip, the question was did the incident in Boston change the publics take on whether or not the Government was a threat to them.
I never said we don’t have the right to self defense. I’m on record here as saying we should have the right to any weapons the cops have.
But i think if you took a poll right now of the people affected by the lockdown they would be supportive of what the police did.
Comments wouldn’t let me reply to your reply, so here it is.
I am not trying to attack you, but rather the issue, which is the government enacting the lock down and the people being ok with it. How can anyone be ok with being locked down, having their homes forcibly searched, all for one person? It isn’t like he had a nuke, or missile capable of dispersing a chem/bio weapon over Boston. Why would anyone be ok with a government lock down? If you don’t feel safe, then by all means, lock yourself down, invite the
gestapopolice in and let them do a search for you.. But government enacted, and the people are ok with it? Even wanted it? What is wrong with this picture? Since when does the government protect anyone?Rip, we have hindsight of the event. At the moment it was happening there was no real info getting out to the people. The ways this could have played out were endless. And to the average guy sitting in his living room watching the crap that passes for reporting on the tube it must have been a, maybe not scary, but definately worrying moment.
To these people the sight of a blue APC on the street was probably comforting.
As for the house searches, I don’t know how many they actually did. I know they’re showing some on the net. But again, unless you were one of the houses actually searched or knew one of these people it probably didn’t really register as a threat compared to the possible threat of further terrorist action.
The number of 250 is greatly inflated as anything as minor as a superficial cut would count, and realistically is a couple dozen tops.
And really jwm, the only people who felt threatened here or from something like 9/11 were cowards plain and simple.
Yeah jwm, the sight of a blue APC on my street is “comforting”? No thanks.
J&D, I’m just wargaming from the point of view of the folks in Boston and whether or not this event changed their view on the use of government force.
I believe Rip gets it and tho you and I don’t always agree I think you’re smart enough to see that. Most people out there still don’t see the government as a threat. They may be angry at the ineffiency of the government and the tax and waste ways of the government but they don’t see the government as a threat.
Just today I was involved with the police in my neighberhood. Long story short I saw a man vandalising a neighbers car. With the call and info I gave them he was busted and I ID’d him for the 5-0.
Most Americans still believe we can work in the system. Things need to be a lot better, but that’s why we vote and contact our reps.
As for matt, he admits that he doesn’t vote and has some sick fantasy of the country collapsing into chaos. I doubt he’s ever contributed any money to the gun rights cause and he’s probably never contacted his reps about 2a issues. What good is he to the 2a cause?
JWM, are you really this stupid. How many times do I have to tell you to look up the definition of the word terrorist before you start applying it to everything you dont like.
And what certainly isnt speculation, is that the police posed a far greater threat to the community than the bombers did. How many lives did they endanger with reckless gun fire, and how many civil liberties did they violate.
matt, did the group home let you have more keyboard time? Or did you sneak away from finger painting? You don’t get to define what they were. If I chose to call them terrorists, so be it. This isn’t a court of law.
Meaning to ask you. Does your SSI disability check come to you or does it go straight to the management of your group home?
Per Merriam-Webster’s Online Dictionary:
ter·ror·ism noun \ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm\
Definition of TERRORISM
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
— ter·ror·ist adjective or noun
— ter·ror·is·tic adjective
FYI jwm: some pu$$y stole your login information and is posting nonsense on here.
Just kidding jwm.
I use my mother as a gauge of “common America” since she’s very emotional, watches a lot of TV/reality TV/mass media, and not big on inconvenient truths or critical thinking. She’s a lovely woman, it’s just she’s easily led.
And if she’s any indication, the Boston bombing just solidified the sycophantic feeling “normal America” has for that fake, oppressive blanket of nanny state control. She marveled at how “quickly the police mobilized and responded and their persistence in catching the bomber.” (Despite watching lots of news, she didn’t know it was a homeowner who found the second guy). And she was all emotional about how Bostonians “opened their hearts” to others, blah blah.
Of course, I responded with the usual points here about the militarization of police, how Boston subjects cowered in their homes as helpless rabble while the police state rolled through their streets, etc. She didn’t want to hear any of it. She was fine with the fantasy the MSM propaganda machine created.
There are two problems. First, people are slowly forgetting what it was like to live in a truly free society, and today’s generation has no idea, so government responses like this don’t surprise them. How would they know to defend freedom when they’ve never known what it is? And second, most people simply are incapable of seeing government forces as “them,” a a potential enemy, the way they see us. They’re children who can’t recognize their parents’ flaws.
It’s nice to think that most Americans are intelligent, critical thinkers who can objectively see an event like this and ponder its implications. But they’re not.
outstanding!
Silver, good take. I liked Roberts question and my own thoughts paralleled jwm’s. But you’re right. To low information voters/citizens, they’ve already gotten all the information they’re ever going to get regarding this situation and they’ve already moved on. There’s not going to be anymore introspection from them. At 1st, I was hopeful that this would be a wake-up call to individuals to provide for their own security, but you’re right. They’ve already moved on to their “Housewives of…” and look, it’s the NFL Draft weekend!
Sean Michael Savage pretty much said the same thing.. I think you were listening lol
that being said he and Silver are right. Now one wants to see people being dragged from their homes, but even still, it was because it was for their safety, don’t you get it???
I have an aunt who is like that. ANYTHING for safety. When asked if she would support body cavity searches by the TSA there was no question in her mind that if the government said they were necessary then she’d be for it.
“How would they know to defend freedom when they’ve never known what it is?”
Exactly. Further you can’t defend what you no longer have.
” She was fine with the fantasy the MSM propaganda machine created.”
Which is, after all, the real purpose of television, isn’t it? For many, if not most, television IS REALITY ITSELF.
Once I asked an acquaintance, “are you watching the meteor showers tonight?,” to which she replied, “IS IT ON TV?”
If I had been an octopus, I woulda done an OCTUPLE FACE PALM.
Vladimir Putin replied to a critic of Russian TV, highly propagandist, this way: “Intelligent people don’t watch TV. They get their news from the internet.” One world, indeed.
That and more. As more people rely on the government for their livelihood, they are less willing or unwilling to see the government as dangerous whether it be fear of retaliation (you will lose that pension Mr. Resistor) or an ignorance of what is overkill, sloppy work, or both. Everywhere we look we see government inefficiency at best, ineptitude at worst (USPS, DMV, IRS, etc) ; and yet we crave more of it. Because we are losing a sense of what is efficient, normal and appropriate. We can’t see the waste and the danger because we live comfortably with it everyday and it seems normal now. When people see a small army of hyper-militarized cops and agents descending upon Watertown, they don’t see what they ought to see, which is the Post Office with guns, the DMV riding in on a tank, but that’s what we are indeed looking at.
It’ll take a monumental f**k up on the part of our militarized police/federal LE agencies for citizens to sour on the idea. That or national insolvency, which means we can’t pay for all this stuff. (Which is actually the better bet than the public demanding we de-militarize.)
My mother responded the same way. She was impressed with Boston and their fast response, and think’s it’s great the way the shut the whole city down and went door to door to search for the guys. So, no, unfortunately I think this hasn’t woken up anybody, it’s in fact only strengthened the belief that some people have that the government will take care of everything and you don’t need to worry or protect yourself.
Actually pretty ironic, since she was born in Cuba and only just made it out as a little girl before they stopped allowing people to leave. Her family had to turn over their house and all of their possessions therein before leaving. An inventory was even taken to make sure they weren’t “stealing” from the government. And when a one-step-from-tyranny lockdown and door to door search takes place, she says “great job!”. I fear for the future of our society.
God, I hope so! How can people see armored personnel carriers and our new militarized LEO rumbling down the street in response to ONE MAN, ought to open eyes. Looked like an appropriate response to a military invasion, not a fugitive.
Sure looks like the current crop of cops have a paucity of guts or an excess of testosterone. Was not a measured and appropriate response at all.
Kind of goes hand in hand with incidents like this; http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/robert-farago/dorner-disaster-la-taxpayers-shell-out-4m-for-bad-shoot/
Question of the Day: Did Boston Bombers Open Americans’ Eyes to the Threat Posed by Their Own Government?
For liberals and democrats who want government to do everything / be everything for them; No.
For self reliant independent conservatives or liberals who see government as over reaching and intrusive, it only reaffirmed existing suspicions and concerns.
+1
Those conservatives are certainly no more independent than the liberals they bemoan. And they are both still statists who want nothing but a overreaching government. How many of those conservatives call for reductions to defense, which is nothing more than corporate welfare, and welfare for those who are incapable of finding a job in the private sector. Those conservatives are also predominately made up of boomers, who you rarely see saying that we ought to end social security and medicare.
A 19 yo coward wannabee terrorist hiding in my boat out back scares me a whole lot less than hundreds of kitted up and camo’ed LEOs and multiple armored vehicles taking over my neighborhood.
Keep taking the blue pills you pu$$ified Northeasterners.
Unfortunately, it isn’t restricted to just one region.. It is rampant across the US, and it started with entitlements.. “If the government wants to give me free stuff, and looks out for me when I don’t want to, then I am ok with them protecting me from bad men. Even if it means I need to be told to what to do, and when…”
I can assure you the folks in my neck of the woods are not OK with that Gestapo bull$hit that went down in Boston. I’ll sit out on my porch with my SCAR before I go cower in the bathroom and hope stray LEO bullets don’t kill me.
I’m convinced there is no convincing to be done.
The shouts of “USA!, USA!, USA!” while storm troopers systematically zip-tied bystanders and searched blocks building by building is evidence of that.
The folks who get it most likely always have and those who dont never will.
The people who truly “get it” have moved from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts loooooooong ago.
This is not a Massachusetts problem, nor a California problem; it’s an AMERICAN problem. What you saw in the streets of Boston, cop show of force, APCs, and so on, CAN AND WILL HAPPEN ANYWHERE in this country. All the government need do is decide to do it and unleash a false-flag attack, and then the whole of America will see what the idiot, “USA! USA!! USA!!!”-chanting nitwits saw.
And we won’t stop it unless you wake up and smell the tyranny.
The answer is not yet. That being said, the video of one of the more infamous “home searches” is on YouTube. It has received almost 1 million views in the 5 days it’s been up. So while mom and dad may think that the government always acts in the best interest of the people, the younger generation is watching. What they glean from it is anyone’s guess.
BS… the younger generation is the “entitlement generation” who crys foul when they don’t get what they think they should, get the politicians to give it to them, and can’t see past their own greediness to see what they are actually getting.. The younger generation is screwed by their own shortsightedness, and couldn’t care less so long as they get “theirs”…
Broad generalizations are bad. If you pay attention to the Libertarian movement, it’s mostly made up of those 30yrs and younger. There is a large portion of the recent generations that are seeing through the indoctrination BS they were fed in public schools. This group also does not drool in front of a TV like previous generations. They are born into the internet, and are more apt to do their own research vs accepting the spoon fed BS from the MSM.
Fair enough, but to me the younger generation is the mid-20 somethings.. didn’t even think/consider the much younger generation…! 😀
Not to generalize or anything…
-Ben
19-year old college senior who loves constitutional rights, freedom, and a life without government intervention.
-Another Ben, this one from California
Who is a 18 year old college freshman. Who takes trips to the capital to stand up for his constitutional rights. Who does not want or encourage government intervention in his private life. And who is fleeing this state immediately upon graduation.
I think you are wrong. You can’t over generalize in this fashion. There is large portion of the younger generation who don’t watch TV news. They only use the internet in various form and fashion. This group of the younger generation is tired of government control, nanny state ideas, medicare, social security etc etc and being ripped off by the baby boomer generation to pay for their “entitlements”. Now, a certain portion of the younger generation is on entitlements themselves; but of the portion that is not, they are sick of the theft and fraud.
Really? Which is why all the boomers believe they are entitled to social security and medicare? Those two programs make up 45% of the federal budget, and will only continue to grow even larger. Here is another example of typical boomer logic
Hey kid, go get a college education otherwise you’ll be stuck flipping burgers for the rest of your life. [4 years, a degree and 100k of debt later] Hey kid, why dont you have a job to pay off your student loans? What, are you too good to flip burgers?
That video was eye-opening. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen the MSM provide any coverage of those videos of police pulling unarmed citizens out of their homes.
Lock down…………wasn’t that a term used first in prison security??? And if all those guys were just Popo and no military then the only difference between them now is who writes their checks.
Well.. the military typically doesn’t write tickets, or call you up looking for donations for their individual clubs/orders.
I think as time goes on, more and more people will actually become concerned by this. What I find interesting is that many people, mostly the media, are comparing the Boston bombings to 9/11. While Boston is a terrible tragedy, it cannot be compared to a 9/11 type attack. However, the media did this to soften the blow of what was basically marshal law being imposed on a major US metropolitan area. So when we see an MRAP rolling down the street and SWAT teams forcing people out of their houses, we associate that image with the twin towers burning and the hole in the Pentagon, the loss of ~3000 lives, rather than the loss of 3.
Tell me about it. If bomber boy was running around my town, you would see more good old boys driving around in their pickup trucks and hunting rifles looking for that clown than you would see LEOs. What a bunch of Boston pansies and what a bunch of jack booted thugs pushing them around.
I think it would have been far more enlightening (to the average Joe) if it had gone on much longer. What would be the end strategy for the police had he not been found in the first 24 hours. Do they keep the whole city on lock down for 3 days? A week? Month? No one will notice the fact that the loss in economic production and the subsequent loss in tax revenues probably dwarfed the actual police expenditures, but after a couple of weeks people will start to yearn for a paycheck. When the storm troopers come and point their (evil) assault rifles at you and search you property once is one thing, but what about when they show back up 2 days later? What happens when it becomes evident that the bad guy must have slipped through the net?
Superb post, Governor.
Hurumph!
They lifted the “request” around 6pm that afternoon with #2 still at large because the trail went cold, IIRC.
But, yes, a longer lockdown would have become less popular.
Well I’m not just talking about THIS lock down but the next. The militarization of the civilian police is an ongoing process. I blame the phenomena on an oversupply of law enforcement. Idle hands are the devil’s tools.
An oversupply of law enforcement and post-911 military gear.
Watch the video. Any citizen interested in protecting themselves via firearm in their own homes would have been gunned down in a hail of hundreds of LEO bullets. Anybody who told LEO that bomber boy wasn’t in their house and to go away would have faced dire consequences. Truly scary stuff.
That, J&D, was the comment I was about to write. What happened to “home carry” types when SWAT came to the door? Has anyone heard of such a case?
RD, from a practical point of view I would as a home carrier answer the door. If it was a police team the thing I would do is put both hands in front of me open fingered and inform them I was carrying a gun. I would not move a muscle until they told me to.
Really in that exact set of circumstances what can you do? I normally home carry a j frame smith. With a front yard full of guys in body armor and m4’s what can you do except surrender or die?
It’s a bad choice to have to make. I’m just curious as to which houses they searched and why those particular houses? I know they didn’t search every house in boston. Where those houses that had some one fitting the general discription of the suspects or was it some other reason?
And they would have martyred themselves, doing more for the cause in death than they ever could have done in their life time. Just look at the present gun movement which was born from the ashes of Ruby Ridge and Waco.
And really, look at Dorner, and this incident, cops cant shoot for shit. The only reason they killed Dorner was because they intentionally burned the house down. They tried doing the same here again with flash bangs, but apparently fiberglass isnt as flammable as carpeting. Just be sure to have hard wood floors and you’ll survive to get your multi million dollar settlement check like the ladies in LA did.
Where’s the media? Utah fella stops knife-stabbing crazy fella with his legal gun. Where is NBC? This story would be ridiculous ratings for them.
http://wr2a.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/utah-gun-carrying-citizen-stops-stabbing-spree-wheres-the-media/
I did see that one on the news. Last year, 2012, when it happened.
TDubb,
Yep. I was just emailed that same info. It seems I dropped the ball, and passed-on erroneous info. Derp on me, for sure. stupidstupidstupid….
Thanks for the catch, though!
Amerikans (sic) love boot lickin. The people of Boston who cheered the costumed enforcers after a citizen had found the punk make me sick to my stomach.
And yet no one has stated the unequivical “Fact” that america, under Godbama, is far safer than it was at any other time in it’s history. It’s a “Fact’ and there is no deneying it (ask anyone in the MSM).
We are discussing the irrevalant. Our masters have enacted 90% of the Communist Manifesto and are ready to use violence to push the final 10% using Islamo-facists as their willing partners. Currently there are an (admitted) 20,000 untracked islamists in the nation and an additional 15 million undocumented infiltrators at large, not to mention 10,000’s of Somalies and an additional 20,000 “Meat Packers” Lindsey. Grahm want’s brought in (just like in Londanistan, but there they were called textile workers, who instantly went on Govt support).
That’s the current and presant danger that is about to be unleashed. LEO’s will act as the Military did in The Bosnian War to ‘patrol as peace keepers’ creating No Go Areas that have been Pacified by Jihadies and to keep the media at bay while the jihadies are moved to the next area to be pacified.
I think most Americans will remember how the FLIR camera caught the badguys and all the police on the street kept any more private citizens from being injured. If they’re not too scared they’ll treat the next lockdown like a snow-day and watch some DVDs or get some chores done.
I am shocked. Not by what the authorities did, but by peoples’ calm reactions to it. Do they truly feel no outrage? Are they afraid to speak up on camera? I don’t know which I would find more disturbing.
Rob,
We live in a total police state. .. And it’s not just a “blue state problem”.
Republicans love to worship anyone in uniform. There are a lot of unstable people in uniform and I know many LEO’s that are disqualified from obtaining carry permits due to criminal history. I hate the fact that I have to work with them.
Ron Paul was and has usually been right….
This Republican supports LEO in general but detests jack booted thugs.
Would they have killed that MIT cop if they weren’t so spooked by an all-out militarized police operation to find them? What if instead of flexing muscles for the cameras law enforcement just watched them for a little bit and picked them up safely and quietly? How many innocent people were put at risk by having adrenaline soaked cops with itchy trigger fingers running through their homes and neighborhoods in apc? I’m not blaming the police either. We all put these expectations on them. We and the media and the politicians set it up so that anything less than an all out balls-to-the-wall “at any cost” operation. When we start demanding “at any cost” we’re going to get it. At the cost of safety, at the cost of liberty, at the cost of rights, and so on.
I agree. I think they could have picked them up quietly and avoided a citywide shutdown
Say what you will, but I’ve long decided that no one, and I do mean NO ONE, not God unless He asks first, will prevent me from a) my freedom to travel as I see fit (e.g. driving anywhere I want to go) and b) my freedom to own firearms and use same to defend my castle, which includes my car.
If THAT means I die in a hail of gunfire because I had the gumption to tell a group of home invaders NO, then so be it. Feel free to second-guess me all you want, but it is what it is.
People need to understand the concept of minding their own business. Law enforcement in particular. And while they’re at it, learn to suck it up and not exhibit such gross and widespread incompetence, as evidenced by generally atrocious marksmanship and panicking because they THOUGHT they saw something, even though it’s pretty damn hard to say a blue Tacoma bears any semblance to a gray Nissan Titan.
Now, I obviously decided to own guns a long time ago, so the original question is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. I’m more worried about people respecting other people’s rights and liberties and less about getting their own noses out of joint, to say nothing of mine.
*snap* rant off
Much of America is already lost. Years of pu$$ification, sensitivity training, and the glorification of tolerance has weakened our collective psyche. There are precious few independent spirits left, they have been replaced by mewling cowards seeking government guidance.
Isnt it ironic that you gripe about this pussification, while also enabling it? For without LEOs and SWAT members such as yourself, how else could this pussification happen? And regarding independent spirits, I would think you would not qualify as one, being dependent on the government for a paycheck, and also for being the person to provide that government guidance. Why dont you want to try find work in the private sector Accur81? Is that promise of a California public pension too much to resist?
I would not say he is “dependent” on the gov for his pay. He could quit and get a different job.
There are benefits of being on the “inside” of the system and if he is willing to take the risks that come with it good for him.
I just hope he will try to do what is right and what he can to keep his fellow officers in line.
Zm: You’ve got a man on the inside! Hopefully many more than me.
To matt:
Prior to police work, I was a Marine and a crew chief at an armored trucking company. I’ve also considered overseas private security contracting, by that is tough to do with a family (and is sometimes pretty sketchy).
Unfortunately, I’ve lost a large degree of my intellect and therefore chose to work for the government.
Did Boston Bombers Open Americans’ Eyes to the Threat Posed by Their Own Government?
No. Just the opposite. Most Americans, especially the people in Boston and the affected suburbs, were comforted to know that the streets were swarming with cops. Most viewed the “lockdown” as a temporary inconvenience. Shopkeepers were unhappy about losing a lot of income, as were their unpaid employees, but by and large people were okay with being told what to do.
They do not view the Boston police occupation as a dress rehearsal. However, anyone who fears the G has to be cheered by the ineptitude of law enforcement. Two punks with one pistol between them were able to hold an entire city hostage. Imagine if there were four or five of them and they were better armed.
And I thought that Mumbai was a cluster f^ck.
Not just one gun – they also had a BB gun and a pressure cooker.
+1.
I’m confused about these door-to-door searches. Were they “voluntary”, and everyone was just so intimidated that they complied? If someone just waved at them from their window when they banged on the front door, I do not see any legal justification for them entering. Granted, I am sure they would have knocked the door down and entered anyway…but that would have been technically illegal, right?
I have the exact same question. Did anybody try to refuse a search? If so, what happened. If not, well, that’s their right to allow police into their homes, but I would be surprised that everyone would allow it. I would like to think that I would refuse a search, but I’m sure that a swat squad surprising you at your door, pointing rifles at you and yelling can be rather persuasive.
I guess I am looking for a sign that the government’s recognition of our right to refuse a search is still intact. I don’t have much hope that is the case.
I’m not a legal scholar nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but there’s this little thing they call a ‘public safety exception’ that supposedly allows entry without a warrant, for example when in hot pursuit. Say a car thief on foot runs through your open front door and out the back. Under that ‘exception’ then the cop in pursuit is legally justified in following the car thief.
The problem in Boston though, was that there was no plausible ‘hot pursuit’. They lost him, plain and simple, and resorted to wild house-to-house searching because of it. If LE had tried to pull that horseshit around here there would be lots of bodies stacked up, because most people around here still have a sense of privacy and self-respect, as well as owning guns, and the first natural response would be to solve the immediate problem, that of a home invasion.
So in a nutshell you can assume two things from my comment here and a few entries above: a) there’s a hell of a lot of bleating sheep in Boston (and up North in general) and b) there’s a hell of a lot of incompetent law enforcement officers who were generally trying to compensate for their lack of competence by dressing up and playing soldier, etc. There wasn’t anything wrong with them searching for Tsarnaev per se, they were just doing a lousy job of it all the way around.
The point that Robert is trying to make is that too many people are letting everything else take control of their lives. I mean, it should be so OBVIOUS, but some people just don’t get it, know what I mean?
this past week the cops in elwood,indiana went thru all the houses locked or not during a flood. they saved one mentally challenged girl who wouldn’t come out. it was at three in the morning and most people were asleep and didn’t know of the flood. if one busted thru my front door at 3 theyd have a bullet in the head. a criminal yelling people to throw me off sounds just like a real one.
I see my post was deleted, moments before the FBI announced new evidence that confirmed my post as factual
We only delete posts for flaming. And racism and anti-semitism and that kind of thing.
What? No flaming?!? When did this happen?
rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsizəm/
Noun
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as…
TTAG, where you cant acknowledge someone may have a different skin color.
By that definition provided by matt I found out I am racist.
I believe all blacks are black (with the exception of albinos and Mikel Jackson) and all whites are white (except whites that excessively over tan).
lolz
New York Magazine has an interesting op ed on consensual lockdown and it’s ramifications. Worth a read.
http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/boston-lockdown-davidson-2013-4/
In the same place Liberty was born for this country it will die, how uncomfortably ironic.
Do I get a tin hat award for calling the lockdown “beta testing”? America is a large country both in terms of geography & population. It has a lot of coastline and 3 very large over-land borders; we also have many islands. We have a very diverse population as well. Point is that there will be no shortage of such instances that in the minds of many “justify” such actions.
America had more freedom while engaged in the largest conflict the world has ever seen (WWII). We had spies and subversives in our midst, knew this fact, and still kept on. Yes, it was only one day and one city but it was only one man for cryin out loud!
If anything you would want more citizens on the street as eyes and ears looking for the perps not watching TV while home from work. The terrorists won that battle – look at how much money was spent on just a few guys; look at how much work was lost over 2 brothers.
Its no wonder we are not free: not enough tyrants and patriots have died ala the quote by Jefferson.
In the first shootout, police fired “200 rounds” to kill one and wound the other. Somewhere I read in the final “shootout” the kid in the boat was unarmed! (double check me on that). My guess is many people can’t hit the broadside of a barn, while standing in the barn!
Not only that but according to wikipedia, in the last shootout (april 19th) where the younger brother was unarmed, 16 cops were wounded.
I had not heard that and couldn’t find it in the article you mentioned.
Boston looked like Fallujah…the response was completely unnecessary and accomplished only one thing, the imtimidation of a completely innocent populace.
When someone commits a crime, the entire population shouldn’t be punished. And as for the safety aspect, if you want lockdown safety (aka “Shelter in Place), move into a penitentiary.
You can move more freely during a Category 5 Hurricane (which is much more deadly) than you could during Martial Law in Boston.
BTW, some rando GI JOE with his hat on backwards drawing a bead on your dome just because you’re looking out your window isn’t my idea of “Safety”.
Everytime I see that pic it makes me want to flog that jackass with a sock full of marbles. Way to go Phuck Phace…you accomplished the exact opposite of your Oath by taking aim at innocent US Citizens.
The next step is an “Acciendental Killing” by these thugs during the next Martial Law (aka “Shelter in Place”) drill. And you can bet that they won;t be held accountable because it will be the stupid innocent citizens fault, a la the two women in LA who were delvering papers one morning.
Exactly this. Hell, what’s to say they didn’t cap off a homeowner or two and pass it off as a drug raid gone south? And besides, the MSM would happily sweep it all under the carpet in the name of their utopia.
Regrettably, I suspect that far too many of our fellow citizens will embrace this paradigm shift for ever greater protection from, and dependence on, the government.
Now might be a good time to reread Jeff Snyder’s essay, “A Nation of Cowards”.
It seems to me that this web site name should be changed, from The Truth About Guns. Right now, it’s two thirds 2A conjecture, one third firearm opinion.
Don’t get me wrong, I like this site. However, you’ve strayed away from your original premise. This “Question of the Day” appears to be a cheap grab for readers…the kind that wear their tin foil hats.
Hey, TTAG has some tinfoil. I’m alright with that.
Tinfoil undies, thank you very much.
+1.
Kind of a cheap trick to throw tainted meat out to the Morlocks.
Good for page views I suppose but bad for the long-term rep.
Just my two cents.
Then go back to sleep Eddy, nothing to see here. Just don’t complain when some cops kick open your door and throw out on the front lawn with your hands zip tied behind your back because some criminal ran through your subdivision.
If you give up liberty and freedom for a little safety ,you will in the end have neither liberty or safety( Sam Adams i think said that). Boston was overkill, and they had military and bomb units, and dogs , and SWAT all ready before any bombs went off, I see rats coming out the cracks in the reports, and I feed this was a test run, someone knew about these bombers if Russia was sending intel. reports on these guys ,,, START THINKING ….folks
The liberty/safety quote is by Ben Franklin.
And it was a bit more bloody than that
I found the Bostonians’ post-capture celebration to be a bit disgusting, as they wildly applauded the authorities (troops? police officers?). After being locked down, shoved around, and, in some cases, pulled forcefully from their homes for searches, these people applauded their overlords? It made me think of how North Koreans are forced to applaud and dance in frenzy whenever their Divine Leader makes a public appearance. Are Bostonians really that excited about turning over their lives to the government? I hope not.
No. Most people I’ve talked to never even considered the legal and social ramifications of the government’s actions. They were just happy that the authorities captured the suspect. Heck, the day after I wrote my House Rep and have still not recieved a response other than the electronic notice that my email was recieved. I think government officials (of both parties) and the media will ignore what happened, and thus most citizens will assume nothing improper occured.
For me, the facts are that in a time of crisis, the local government decided they would lock down an area, and search house-to-house. It seems to me that this will happen again. So the more important question for me is survival of myself and family, and not losing my collection of guns in the process. If I were there, then I would have been armed. the rest of my guns would be in the safe. I wonder if I’d have had time to realize that armed LEO’s were coming down our street. if so, I’d put even my home carry weapon in the safe until the “danger” had past. So given those two scenarios, what should I do to stay alive. I will not open the safe while there are armed LEO’s around. So if I don’t comply with demands to open my safe, what would have happened? And if I happen to still have my home carry weapon on me when i was demanded to open my door, would coming out with my hands on my head be enough to stay alive. Pretty scary. Anyone with a background in LE care to comment? I have respect for the job they must do. But I don’t want to end up on the news either.
As in Katrina the government went to far. Ordering people out of the house and searching them at will. Really? I also will not fly because of TSA. Same problem Kevin, I would also have a carry gun on me. I will not open my safe either. If they were going door to door it would be a problem for me, I’m not sure I would leave my house. Yeah I know how it turns out.
Why are we going down the same road as Germany in the 30’s? Papers please.
Here is another item to THINK on , In my military study , I learned the goal of the terrorist is what, kill people , destroy buildings , or do as much hurt as can,??? NO the only true GOAL of the terrorist is to make the government take so much controls , that in the end the people will hate and fear the government more than the bad guys, and this is who they get new members from… Study war, say WW2 , the Germans and later Russia because of being so hard handed turned most people to the other side… Same thing in Viet Nam, the Viet Cong got so many people on their side because the government became so hard handed in their actions.. Same in the middle east.. (BLOWBACK) will keep growing ,, Was it not our policy to try and win hearts and minds.. So the terrorist won this one again…
Very true. The terrorist wins if he can make the people fear the authorities more than the terrorists. I’d imagine that for a certain portion of the population in Boston, specifically those who were forced out of their homes, this may be true. Everyone else seems to be offering high fives to the police.
I love the commentator: “rescued at the point of a gun”. And then people excusing it “they are just doing their job” and “I’m glad they are doing this”. WTF country am I living in?
I agree resisting the
jackbooted thugspolice would be foolish, but I sure wouldn’t be thanking them for forcing me out of my home at gunpoint. Go find the terrorists and leave the law abiding residents alone.The martial law-in-all-but-name aspect of this is a logical consequence of leftist indoctrintion and disarmament. The “state” will protect you and you better obey the “state”, or else. Millions of able-bodied people were ordered to cower from a 19-year old ill-trained punk. And they did.
The interesting question is would the “state” in areas that respect the RKBA be so stupid as to try this? I can’t see many gun owners in red areas cowering in their homes; not looking to be vigalantes, but just going about their lives ready to defend themselves.
My guess is the overwhelming LE response in Boston pulled LE assets from throughout New England, leaving many jurisdictions virtually unprotected. I’m sure our enemies have taken due note of this and will take advantage in a future incident.
This article in Salon sides with you, Robert, and fellow TTAGers. A taste:
“Indeed, the vaunted magic of (decades-old) infrared technology, increased surveillance, and the absence of restraints on law enforcement, of this massive martial state could all be justified through the lens of the state itself, a breathless and supine media, and an ostensibly cowering but now relieved public. Yeah! The War on Terror is so successful! See?”
In full: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/22/in_boston_our_bloated_surveillance_state_didnt_work/
government-ordered and enforced “lockdown.”
Really? Because it was requested. Yes the city shut down mass transit and closed roads, but you could still move around the city if you absolutely wanted to.
Hell, go watch youtube videos of the new, you’ll see people out for a jog.
You know, when I first started reading this website, everything was in perspective and there were gun and gear reviews every day. Hell, you guys took time to help me buy my first gun.
Things are changing here, and not for the good either. Just felt like I should point that out.
Unfortunately, Jesus, this is a commercial entreprise and controversy sells ad space. And while I feel that TTAG has declined a little I still think it’s way ahead of the other sites out there. I just wish the Truth About Knives would catch on a little better.
Stop whining.
What would have happened if a resident had said: “Do you have a warrent? No? Get off my lawn, please.” I wonder what the law is for a situation like this? Do the police need a warrent?
I’d have to say if something like this happened in my town.. It would scare the crap outta me. Especially if they ordered me out of my home yelling and screaming AT ME like I was the criminal. That video of the police yelling at that guy to keep his hands up and physically putting their hands on him was really disturbing!
It’s called a dragnet, and is nothing new.
Except for the forcing their way into all the houses and bristling with fully automatic weapons, that is.
How were so many tactical troops able to converge with that much force so quickly……..where did they all come from?, where were they staged at? how were they all mobilized that fast?
Were they all part of the normal Boston marathon security plan?
As it was all unfolding it was obvious how they were able to turn Watertown into a police state so quickly and show us all that the bureaucrats with guns are eager for a reason to violate peoples rights.
Who was this show of overwhelming force really meant to send a message to?
Can everyone please stop implying that the lockdown was mandatory? They were not ordered to stay in their homes.
Sure Phil, just like “mandatory evacuations” here in FL for hurricanes. The cops go house to house telling people to leave. A few defy them and stay. The vast majority do as they are told.
The police definitely over-reacted. It seems as if we just keep sliding closer & closer to becoming a police state, ever since 9/11.
On the bright side, I know of a least one fellow progressive/Democrat who was finally awakened to the threat posed by Islam, because of the Boston Marathon bombing. This super-liberal woman was actually wearing a hijab after 9/11, to show that there were no hard feelings towards Muslims or Islam. But after the Boston bombing, she took another look, discovered that Islam is far scarier than she ever imagined, and has become active in the cultural “counter jihad” movement.