Eric Friday, general counsel of Florida Carry, Inc., testifies about SB 150 during a hearing of the Senate Criminal Justice Committee Monday. (Screenshot courtesy of The Florida Channel.)
Eric Friday, general counsel of Florida Carry, Inc., testifies about SB 150 during a hearing of the Senate Criminal Justice Committee Monday. (Screenshot courtesy of The Florida Channel.)
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By Lee Williams

Nearly every anti-gun group in the country has descended on Tallahassee to try to stop Florida from becoming the 26th state to allow residents and visitors to carry concealed firearms without a permission slip from the government.

It’s an important mission for the gun banning industry, because once Gov. Ron DeSantis signs the bill – and he will – a majority of states will have allowed unlicensed or permitless carry. For pro-gun advocates, this would be a significant victory in the war to restore our Second Amendment rights, and the other team will do anything they can to prevent that from happening.

It’s important to point out that neither Florida’s HB 543 nor its companion bill, SB 150, are traditional constitutional-carry bills, since neither bill legalizes the open carry of arms. True constitutional carry allows gun owners to decide for themselves whether to carry arms openly or concealed.

Despite Republican super-majorities in both the House and the Senate, and a governor who’s promised to sign “constitutional carry” legislation, open carry wasn’t included in either bill. We still have not been told why, at least not officially.

In what has been called “smart bundling,” SB 150 also includes numerous school-safety provisions, such as expanding Florida’s School Guardian program, adding funds for hardening schools, providing additional money for gun-sniffing dogs, clarifying zero-tolerance policies and ensuring every law enforcement agency has an active-shooter policy. So, a vote against the bill can be seen as a vote against school safety.

Regardless of what the bill is called or its other offerings, the very thought of restoring more gun rights – especially in Florida – has brought the gun banners out in droves. We’ve seen members of Everytown, the Demanding Moms, Demanding Students, Giffords, Brady and Florida’s extremely anti-gun League of Women Voters all shuffle to the mic.

moms demand action northam special session
(AP Photo/Steve Helber)

Their testimony before House and Senate committees has been interesting, desperate and at times, comical. If the gun banners sent their A-team to Tallahassee and this is the best they can do, freedom will most certainly prevail.

It’s clear the gun banners’ moves are well-organized and orchestrated. Too many of their objections seemingly come from the same playbook. Keep in mind anti-gunners have phones, Skype and Zoom, too. They’re sharing information and ideas. Florida has become their latest battle template. They’re throwing a lot of crap against the wall. That which sticks likely will be used in the next state they attempt to victimize.

Here are some of the lowlights of their testimony.

‘Untrained carry’

Currently, unless the gun owner has a DD 214, they must provide proof of training before qualifying for a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License, or CWFL. One of the byproducts of HB 543 and SB 150 is an end to this training requirement because a CWFL will no longer be needed to carry a concealed firearm.

As you can imagine, more than a few rabid Demanders railed against “untrained carry,” even though nothing could be further from the truth.

Moms Demand Action member Gay Valimont, from Pensacola Beach, speaks against House Bill 543: Concealed Carry of Weapons and Firearms Without a License in the Constitutional Rights, Rule of Law & Government Operations Subcommittee meeting, Tuesday, Feb. 7, 2023, at the Capitol in Tallahassee, Fla. Listening behind her are Rep. Chuck Brannan III, R-Macclenny, and Rep. Bobby Payne, R-Palatka, co-sponsors of the bill. (AP Photo/Phil Sears)

Their tactic was unwittingly bolstered by Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri, who serves as the legislative chair of the powerful Florida Sheriff’s Association. Gualtieri testified about how poor some of this mandatory training had become. He described several firearm instructors who only required students to shoot one round into a water barrel before issuing them the certificate needed to obtain a CWFL.

Gualtieri’s comments, which are somewhat dated, set off a firestorm among the anti-gunners. Rather than allowing unlicensed carry, they said, the state should fix these training issues. The bills’ Republican supporters never adequately explained how any government requirement, even a training requirement, infringes upon the Second Amendment.

Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri speaks in favor of House Bill 543. (AP Photo/Phil Sears)

The gun banners never acknowledged that most Floridians who choose to carry a concealed firearm will seek professional training first, nor did they ever mention the more than 1.5 million well-trained veterans who call Florida home, many of whom have already put their training to use downrange.

‘No one wants the bill’

Most of the pro-gun advocates who testified at the House and Senate hearings said they supported the bill, but they wanted it amended to include open carry. One Demanding Mom seized upon this. “Apparently no one’s for this bill today,” she said. Several Democrats on this committee echoed her comments and called for the bill to be withdrawn.

It should be noted that NRA, GOA, NAGR and Florida Carry, Inc., have all voiced support for the legislation. Sure, it is hoped that it will be amended to include open carry, but it is still the most significant restoration of our gun rights since 1987. This was ignored by the legacy media who covered the hearings.

Frivolous amendments

The Democrats tried to amend these bills to death. However, every amendment the Democrats attempted to tack on failed, which is a good thing for gun owners since they would have scuttled the legislation. Here are some of their amendments.

The Democrats wanted gun owners to:

  • Obtain $100,000 worth of insurance if they “opt out” of the CWFL program and carry concealed.
  • Be prohibited from possessing homemade firearms.
  • Be prohibited from carrying in grocery stores, gas stations, music venues or any religious institution.
  • Be prohibited from open carrying at concert venues and polling places. (Under current law, open carry at polling places is already prohibited, as is concealed carry at polling places.)
  • Be prohibited from carrying firearms in cars.
  • Submit to background checks for private sales or when a firearm is loaned to family members for hunting or recreation.
  • Take a firearm safety class and pass a written exam.
  • Provide a written statement from a Florida physician certifying they are mentally fit and free of drug abuse.
  • Pass a mental health exam and drug screen.
  • Take and pass a one-day firearm class that includes a live-fire test.
  • Establish secure storage for guns and ammunition, which would be inspected by a law enforcement officer.
  • Submit to fingerprinting and a background check.
  • Be limited to carrying only one firearm at a time.
  • Be prohibited from carrying a firearm if convicted of domestic violence. (Florida law already prohibits someone with a domestic-violence conviction from carrying a firearm.)

False Equivalencies, false statements

Throughout the bills’ three committee hearings numerous comparisons were made between driving a car and carrying a firearm: “You need a license to drive a car so you should also need a license to carry a gun,” they said. To be clear, driving is a privilege. Carrying a firearm is a constitutional right. You don’t need a license to exercise a constitutional right.

(AP Photo/Brynn Anderson, File)

Both HB 543 and SB 150 enjoy strong support from law enforcement, including the Florida Sheriff’s Association, the Florida Police Chiefs Association and the Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers and deputies.

Despite this strong support, nearly everyone who testified against the legislation claimed that law enforcement opposed these bills because it would make their job more difficult. Even after Sheriff Gualtieri testified that the bills would not prove problematic for his deputies, the false claims continued unabated.

Going forward

Florida’s unlicensed concealed-carry bills are rocketing through the state legislature. Since the Republicans have super-majorities in both houses, no roadblocks are foreseen. The next legislative session begins March 7 and Gov. DeSantis will likely sign this legislation into law far sooner than its July 1st effective date.

 

Lee Williams is a board member of Florida Carry, Inc.

The Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project wouldn’t be possible without you. Click here to make a tax deductible donation to support pro-gun stories like this.

This story is part of the Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project and is published here with their permission.

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177 COMMENTS

  1. “The Truth About Guns Passing Constitutional Carry in Florida Means a Constant Fight Against Gun Banners’ Lies and Distortions”

    Not passing “Constitutional” carry has the same effect.

      • The photos of sporty Gun Control busy bodies is very misleading. No way can such Gun Control zealots be sugar and spice and everything nice when the Gun Control they worship puts them in Sheets and Brown Shirts.

        • Constitutional carry???
          =
          =
          There has been PATRIOT CARRY SINCE 1774/75!!!
          =
          Once a right is exercised, it can never be negated, for if one right can be negated……….THEN ALL RIGHTS CAN BE NEGATED.
          =
          Hmmm, when did Patriot Carry cease to exist and be negated?
          The Patriots had no license, permit nor paid any fee or tax to CARRY and REVOLT!
          =
          Anyone?
          =

  2. The fact that the Mad Mommies (most of whom are NOT really Moms, I’d bet) feel the need toresort to lying, pleading, emotional trigger phrases, proposing ammendments to the bill that are already law, and yelling clearly establishes they are losing and know it.

  3. That democrat wish list is pure insanity. Its the New York tyranny regime concepts all over again, and that resulted in the NYSRPA v. Bruen decision.

    • Happy to see it shut down hard in Florida. It is an expensive waste of time as a law and does nothing to help in preventing crime. But less than a month to the next step in court.

      • I especially liked the “Be prohibited from carrying firearms in cars.”

        That effectively bans over 90% of carry outside the home. You use your car to go to the very places where you might need your firearm for self-defense, in other words out in public away from the home, but you can’t carry the gun in the car?

        These people are nuts.

        • Lol that is one of the few places besides some streets™ that we can carry so I guess they learned something. Anyone who is at all dismissive towards either democrats’ desire to see citizens disarmed (RINO, neocons, and other false conservatives included) or the value of even incremental improvements to gun rights needs to come visit NY and see how things end up if left unchecked.

        • Yeah can’t blame you there, maybe after we have gone full totalitarian and gotten slapped down by the courts so many times we make New Hampshire look restrictive.

    • yeah,..they keep dragging out that ridiculous “wish list” at every opportunity…hoping at least some of it will pass…

  4. “Both HB 543 and SB 150 enjoy strong support from law enforcement, including the Florida Sheriff’s Association, the Florida Police Chiefs Association and the Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers and deputies.

    Despite this strong support, nearly everyone who testified against the legislation claimed that law enforcement opposed these bills because it would make their job more difficult. Even after Sheriff Gualtieri testified that the bills would not prove problematic for his deputies, the false claims continued unabated.”

    anti-gun: “it will make law enforcement’s job more difficult!”

    Sheriff’s Association, the Florida Police Chiefs Association and the Police Benevolent Association and law enforcement: “No, it won’t”

    anti-gun: “it will make law enforcement’s job more difficult!”

    Sheriff Gualtieri: “No, it won’t.”

    anti-gun: “it will make law enforcement’s job more difficult!”

    😂

    anti-gun is just plain nuts.

    • “Both HB 543 and SB 150 enjoy strong support from law enforcement, including the Florida Sheriff’s Association, the Florida Police Chiefs Association and the Police Benevolent Association, which represents rank-and-file officers and deputies.”

      This is absolutely amazing to me and personally gives me a really good feeling about LEO’s in Florida. I hope it passes for the mommy’s sake.

  5. These “Moms” should get jobs, then they should actually learn about what bullshit they are spouting. You know reading from a script is means you are actually just a puppet, right?
    It’s like a evil cult, “Have you heard about Xenu?”
    No and I don’t care, Do you have a job?

      • Most of them are ugly beeches who aren’t getting any action.
        They should concentrate on finding some chump.
        The best place to find a chump? At WORK.

      • Actually MDA women don’t get paid. Shannon Watts got paid.
        I asked my rep about this when they spouting BS a couple of towns over.
        They aren’t “paid activistS”, they just spout BS based on what they are told.
        They are bused in to make a presence, it’s all a farce.
        Do cult members get paid? These “Moms” should get JOBS.
        Three exclamation points, you must feel strongly about this.
        Good for you that’s the spirit

    • We can’t have real constitutional carry (open ) because we might lose the tourist dollar. Why do you think people are MOVING TO Florida? It’s free and it’s safe, That’s why so many tourists become residents. If the yankee (literally) tourists feel threatened by open carry they should stay in New York.

  6. quote———-The gun banners never acknowledged that most Floridians who choose to carry a concealed firearm will seek professional training first———-quote

    Pure right wing lies and bullshit. Most people do not take training classes because they cost money and they have to find time to take them.

    When I took my concealed carry class many of the students thought in the beginning they had a license to shoot anyone they wanted to and for any reason until they were taught the truth in the course. Not requiring such a course is pure insanity.

    Most people in the training class did not know the first thing about how to safely handle and carry a firearm.

    Most people in the class could not even hit the stationary target at 7 yards.

    Not having training in the laws of the state on when you can and cannot shoot and not having training in safe gun handling will only result in many needless shootings and accidental deaths. When you consider the fact that studies show the average educational level of most Americans these days is at the 6th grade level it makes it even more necessary that they receive this mandatory training. Its pure insanity not to make it mandatory. But when did any Republican have even brain one or any common sense.

      • Jethro, you’re giving hard working janitors a bad name. I’m wondering if you have the abilitiy to respond to anything that would require humility, intellegence, and the promotion of proper discourse. Are you part of the problem or the solution?

        • YOU respond to that idiot (dacian) with humility, (intellegence?) intelligence, and the promotion of proper discourse. That would be like offering your hand covered in chicken blood to a shark…

        • MD. If you’re new here you’ve just shown it. You have no knowledge of what you’re stepping into.

    • “. When you consider the fact that studies show the average educational level of most Americans these days is at the 6th grade level”

      Resources to this info?

      • “. When you consider the fact that studies show the average educational level of most Americans these days is at the 6th grade level”
        I might believe that number when you toss in MILLIONS of illegal aliens that lack even a 1st grade education
        now just stick to FULL citizens and I am sure that number is well past 12th grade on avg

      • US scores have been dropping for decades. IQ and standardized testing in all subjects.

        Of course this has nothing at all to do with government schools pushing kids who fail through the grades or shifting focus from real subjects like math an instead making sure every student gets properly school in 64 genders and proper use of butt plugs.

        I guarantee if anyone suggests going back to real core school curriculums dacian will be first in line to say you’re racist and phobic.

        • “US scores have been dropping for decades. IQ and standardized testing in all subjects.”

          Politicians can fix that! They just need more money! They need more administrators. They need more employees to join the Teachers Union. Federally subsidize teacher salaries. Problem solved! Right?!?

    • Hey dacian, I see your avatar and scroll right on past your 25 minutes of wasted typing.
      Keep up the typing work at least your using your fingers for somthing else besides filling your ass.

    • You were in a class people chose to go to Because they didn’t know enough about guns.

      It is a God given right to protect yourself and others.

      I’ve never seen God put on a gun class so he doesn’t care if you have one but most people know they need to learn more so they go to classes and watch youtube videos,,, oh sorry they brain challenged leaders of youtube think people are better when they don’t know how to use guns so that venue is limited.

      I’m an instructor and currently people are willing to pay ALOT to learn. Some people won’t like criminals most likely don’t since you can’t be a criminal and take the class so criminals have freely used guns to kill people forever while honest people are limited.

      How does that make any sense to you?

    • I agree in part with Dacian–sort of. Again, rather than required training that costs money I’m thinking we would be better served by a simple 15 minute test to prove you are proficient in safety and have the ability to hit what you’re shooting at when in the public square and I’m generally a Conservative for the record.

      • its overall a stupid idea that because a person demonstrates they can hit a target so they can ‘check a box’ to satisfy some requirement of the state, suddenly it means the person is ‘proficient and safe’.

        that’s worked out so well for the thousands injurered or killed in car accidents.

        the fact is that law abiding gun carriers are overall, state mandated training or not, permit or not, least likely to cause any harm to others (excluding that caused to the criminal if DGU becomes necessary).

        heck, just being in or near car traffic a person is 1,200 more likely to be run into or over by the licensed driver of a car than they are to be shot by a law abiding gun carrier (excluding that caused to the criminal if DGU becomes necessary), and the state said that licensed driver was ‘proficient and safe’ by issuing them a drivers license. And indeed this is played out thousands of times daily around the country in car accidents of some type and its common, but its actually rare that a law abiding gun carrier even without ‘training’ or permit causes harm to anyone else (excluding that caused to the criminal if DGU becomes necessary).

        it is simply not true that state mandated training or requirement results in ‘proficient and safe’. its the false logic of anti-gun/gun-control.

        • correction: “… is 1,200 more likely…”

          should have been…

          “… is 1,200 times more likely…”

    • “Most people do not take training classes because they cost money and they have to find time to take them.

      When I took my concealed carry class many of the students thought in the beginning they had a license to shoot anyone they wanted to and for any reason until they were taught the truth in the course. Not requiring such a course is pure insanity.”

      Dacian makes a claim – and then one paragraph later contradicts that claim. This is the gaslighting clown-world that only exists in a leftist’s brain.

      Carrying a firearm in Florida currently requires a training course. This is a LEGAL requirement.

      Illegally carrying a firearm requires no training whatsoever. Criminals don’t attend training courses and never will.

      There are already millions of people in this country carrying firearms daily with no training whatsoever. Deaths by gun are largely committed by criminals who intend to shoot someone regardless of their training level.

      Peaceful, law-abiding people carrying firearms without a government permission slip will endanger no one.

      • Peaceful, law-abiding people carrying firearms without a government permission slip will endanger no one.

        Except the criminal who attempts to relieve them of their possessions or their life…

    • dacian the demented dips***,

      ” When you consider the fact that studies show the average educational level of most Americans these days is at the 6th grade level it makes it even more necessary that they receive this mandatory training. ”

      So, dacian, you persist in being below average. If you had even a sixth grade education, you might occasionally make an actual point. Instead, you are intent on spreading your lies and Leftist/fascist propaganda. Piss off, dacian, you are boring us.

    • When you consider the fact that studies show the average educational level of most Americans these days is at the 6th grade level it makes it even more necessary that they receive this mandatory training..

      Guess you’ll need a lot of pictures. Actually, it’s NOT the “education” level, 54% of adults can’t READ at a 6th grade level, studies also point out that 27% of those adults were NOT born in America and do not use English as their first language… Once again you leave out pertinent information AND incorrectly cite a “study”… Whatever works, right?

    • dacian, the DUNDERHEAD. Not hardly DUNDERHEAD. You anti-gun nut jobs are trying desperately to emasculate the 2nd Amendment and it’s not working, is it! In part I agree a lot of people don’t take firearms classes due to cost and time, but again, you Lefties are trying to legislate common sense.
      You are blowing smoke when you lay claim that the people in your firearms class thought they could now go out and shoot any old person they see. You are a prevaricator extraordinaire. If one person in your class felt that way it would be only your imagination running away with you.
      I don’t know about the other people in your class, but have you ever found out the firing sequence of a cartridge. None of the classes here in NY can have the student fire as possession of a loaded pistol without a permit is a felony and too boot, the idiots in Albany can’t seem to figure out how to implement such a requirement. But then bird of a feather flock together? The new law here in NY is already being challenged and an TRO has been entered indicating that the suit will be successful in throwing out your crazy law.

  7. “…Florida Sheriff’s Association. Gualtieri testified about how poor some of this mandatory training had become. He described several firearm instructors who only required students to shoot one round into a water barrel before issuing them the certificate needed to obtain a CWFL.”

    Mine was more useless than that.

    It was one round of a .22 CB cap through a silenced Ruger Mk.4 (?) into a bullet trap…

    • Hmm. My NV permit test required me to fire 36 rounds of 9mm or larger. My CA permit test required be to shoot more than 50. And both required the instructor to verify that a minimum percentage hit the target within the acceptable boundaries.

      • 50 rounds for NY and FL and keep it on paper under 7 yards, so not hard but for some of the class first time holding a pistol due to the needing a pistol permit to touch/buy/own a pistol to begin with.

  8. Just to provide context. I’m not opposed to Constitutional Carry and 100% agree that folks should have the right to carry. I have a license to carry in Maryland which was way too difficult to get–so I think I get it. I also get that you don’t need a license to speak because it’s a constitutional right. However, i wonder how many folks will purchase a firearm and learn how to properly use the weapon? I spent 24 years in the military–in two different branches that included active ground combat as an Airborne Infantryman. I won’t name the second branch, but I can tell you that they rarely used their firearms and almost never carried them from day to day. I can’t properly express the number of times I had to intervene in live fire settings because of lack of experience, confidence, and or safety violations. You might say I was a poor instructor, but I would argue otherwise. Like any skill it takes time to master, and when service members came to the range to qualify–which was only required once a year, there were many who had little time to master, let alone remember skills/knowledge that enhanced safety after just a brief training. In my first branch we were always required to among other things keep the weapon up and down range among other safety protocols. I think that back in the day when our founding fathers formed our great nation, that most folks had access to a rifle which was most likely a muzzleloader and perhaps a black powder pistol (hope I’m correct on those points) that their way of life involved common use of a firearm. I’m not sure what the answer is–maybe that the consequences of misuse do to lack of knowledge will be severe as they should be. I have a hard time getting out of my head the case where a person in Walmart had their young child shoot them with the loaded weapon in their purse. Again, I don’t have the answer. I think it would be almost impossible to get some kind of national training requirement especially when we can’t even get nationwide reciprocity for carry laws. Just trying to promote some thought and ideas regarding safety realizing I might get hammered 🙂 But, that’s OK too–freedom is a beautiful thing.

    • I’ve never met ANYONE who wore a government costume of any kind who wasn’t as arrogant as all holy hell. “Civilians”, they sneer.

        • I’ve interacted with a mix of law enforcement. Approximately 65 percent of the time they are assholes that don’t give a crap about you so your mileage may vary. But the ones that are nice are beyond nice. Just my experience.

    • “However, i wonder how many folks will purchase a firearm and learn how to properly use the weapon?”

      Doesn’t matter. Which other natural, human and civil right requires any preparation at all? “Misuse” of the First Amendment an result in devastating outcomes, including death.

      The only proper means to address your concerns is repeal/alteration of the Second Amendment (and there is the argument that human rights exist regardless of social compacts).

      • Beat me to most of it. Most of the training should be provided as cheaply and as at a young age as possible preferably at home/family or local organizations. School if needed but getting harder to trust them to teach kids to read, write, or do basic math every year. Over credentialing basic firearms handling is beyond retarded but here we are with a 16 hour training requirement that is utterly unnecessary for half(soon more) of the rest of the country.

        • “Most of the training should be provided as cheaply and as at a young age as possible preferably at home/family or local organizations.”

          Availability of firearm training is a good thing. A mandate, of any sort, government control of training, of any sort, is an exception to a natural and human right. “I support the Second Amendment, except….”

          Associated consideration, there is no statistically significant occurrence of legal gun owners causing collateral damage when using a firearm in a self-defense episode. Significant collateral damage happens in the crime-infested inner city neighborhoods, caused by people who are not legal gun owners.

        • Agreed and personally my initial “training” with firearms came from a few range rentals after a friend let me mess around with a 1911 in a gravel pit so……yeah mandatory training may not be necessary let alone desired.

        • I agree, 16 hours is a lot especially today. Everything happens in a nano-second.

          I think that a better requirement might be that you need to prove you have what it takes with a 15 minute test that you could study for on your own time. Required for carrying in public, again when you carry in public without proper training aren’t you stepping on someone else’s rights?

        • Nope, no requirements they will always be abused see NY and others for examples. Buy gun carry as you will and responsible for your actions. Anything else is a violation of civil rights.

        • MADDMAXX February 24, 2023 At 21:11
          Your comment is awaiting moderation
          when you carry in public without proper training aren’t you stepping on someone else’s rights?

          What “rights” would that be?

          MODERATED??? REALLY??? For what, proper punctuation?

      • I get the infested inner city deal–spent a lot of time in Baltimore without concealed carry. I also agree on the self defense reasoning. However, I’m not sure I would agree on your comment regarding any exception to a natural or human right. For years in many states reasonable training was required for concealed carry and most people were OK with that. I don’t believe in fees to exercise your right. However, self defense in your home is somewhat different than self defense in public. When a person responds to a self defense situation outside the home they are in the public square. I would prefer not to be accidentally shot or killed by a misfire or lack of training. Generally speaking most people are not killed when they have a 1st amendment misfire. I know my post stepped on some toes. That was the idea–to create intelligent discussion. I fully realize coming up with some training that everyone might agree on is probably not going to happen. Regarding natural rights, i have a right to feed my family but I’m not upset that I had to take a hunter safety course in order to hunt. Your right to free speech has always had requirements that must be met–you can walk into a police station and yell that you have a gun and are intent on killing everyone, but probably not a good idea. They will quickly infringe on your right to free speech. No right on this planet is absolute except your right to worship, you can do that internally without restriction. I’m not saying I’m right or wrong, just wanted to deal with the inherent safety issues regarding 2nd Amendment right(s).

        • “I would prefer not to be accidentally shot or killed by a misfire or lack of training.”

          The likelihood of that is all but entirely restricted to gang shootings. As noted, there is no data that legal gun owners using a gun to defend themselves in public routinely injure bystanders. You are as safe as you are likely to be. Training is good; mandated training is evil.

          If training is mandated for any natural, human right, it must be mandated for all.

          If your right to religious worship is dependent on stealth, your right is compromised to the point you are a prisoner in your own land.

          BTW, “training” does not equal prudent action, or even “safe” action.

        • walk into a police station and yell that you have a gun and are intent on killing everyone,

          Uttering a threat is not protected speech… 1st Amendment only prohibits the federal government from restricting speech… Bad news, you walk into a cop shop acting crazy and yelling crap like that you will most likely be deprived of a lot more than free speech like that whole life, liberty and pursuit of happiness thing they talk about in the Declaration of Independence…

        • There will never be an end to additional demands/fees/taxes/requirements/license endorsements/insurance so for the sake of affirmed constitutional rights not just no but go review your state’s laws compare it to West Virginia then compare crime data and “accidents” and tell me how anything your state requires makes sense. If you can do that well try NY as I can’t begin to explain the use of my state’s laws.

      • Not so, how about a 15 minute no fee test to prove you understand basic gun safety and can hit what you’re shooting at when you’re in the public square. No fee–No BS same standard for everyone who wants to carry in public.

        • “Not so, how about a 15 minute no fee test to prove you understand basic gun safety and can hit what you’re shooting at when you’re in the public square. ”

          There is no data showing that what you fear is an actual threat (and if you are thinking, “If it saves only one”, then you will find little succor, here).

          So, mandated training: Who decides what is included? If government is involved, an infringement on an enumerated right is in effect. One infringement is as valid as another; there is no end. If government is not involved, how are we reassured that training is useful at all?

          If mandated training is permissible, then restrictions on which weapons you may train with are permissible.

          If one infringement is permissible, then any and all infringements are legitimate; infringements are only the manifestation of voter approved opinions; majority rules.

          On a related note, you do have an absolute right to defend your life, by whatever means available, or fashioned on the spot.

        • if you’ve never had ANY training you should probably get some…and training should include legal advice from a lawyer…that’s far more important than proficiency…..

    • Putting any sort of training requirements or licensing or fees on a human and civil right destroys that right. We do not have to ask permission to exercise our rights.

      Over 50 years ago I also enlisted. One hitch and then out. But in swearing the oath I realized that I was putting some of my rights on hold during my time in service. But that time ended many decades ago and I insist that my rights be honored now.

      • “…any sort of training requirements or licensing or fees on a human and civil right destroys that right. We do not have to ask permission to exercise our rights.”

        Correct, and the irony is that SCOTUS already ruled on this. See Shuttlesworth.

    • Not necessarily. Many people that have CCW permits in their state feel that the masses should not carry, they are special, they took an expensive class and all others should also be forced to do so.

      While I agree that everyone who even wants to fire a gun, should have some instruction, the second amendment does not state so. Be smart and get educated.

      • Ok, that’s a reasonable comment. I am educated and do understand what the 1st and 2nd state, however, whether implied or not no right is absolute–never has been and never will be–think about it for a moment. You’re trained from day 1 what to say and what not to say. You simply cannot say what you want without consequence or am I missing the point because I’m not smart and educated as you mentioned? I’m now leaning towards a test to be required only for carry in public. A simple 15 minute test to prove you understand basic gun safety and can hit what you’re aiming at instead of me. I think that would go a long way towards helping reasonable people feel comfortable around guns since most folks will probably not be carrying anyway.

        • Why should any restrictions be tolerated if not by threat of force for what we recognize as rights?

        • @MDRW

          “however, whether implied or not no right is absolute”

          the strawman argument pretext of anti-gun arguments.

          the second amendment is absolute. it says do with “shall not be infringed” and that is an absolute.

          MDRW. you have slipped in comments and statements, and posed typical anti-gun arguments as assertions or questions as an attempt to corral the discussion into your strawman arguments.

          its almost like you are following the script of that anti-gun comedian who claimed he defeated every argument against gun control.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVJ0SkahgQQ
          .

        • Who pays for the “free” test? Nothing is free. Someone has to create the test. Someone has to buy the paper or build the website. Someone has to validate the test and score the test. Someone has to sign off that the results are accurate so the individual can apply for their permit.

          So, who? Who gets to say what the safety questions/rules are? Who gets to set the standard for passing?

          Any barrier is an infringement. Some infringements may be appropriate (carry by felons, as a possible example). But even a “free” test (were there such a thing as free) is an infringement with significant potential to deny the right.

    • I would argue that most people did not have a rifle/musket and/or a one shot handgun. Maybe most landowners, but the majority of the colonists were help for tradesmen/households/farms and plantations – some slaves, some indentured, others just free and working menial jobs. Just like very few people had their own horse, very few had firearms.
      Firearms are still legacy items, they were very expensive, apprentices, helpers and even journeymen did not have them unless they travelled into hostile territory.

    • I think you need to read (for comprehension) the Bill of Rights. Find a tract that breaks them down in detail. In particular that second section. You’ll note then that you are totally full of it.

    • @MDRW

      “Just to provide context. I’m not opposed to Constitutional Carry and 100% agree that folks should have the right to carry”

      yes you are opposed to constitutional carry and do not agree agree that “folks should have the right to carry. In looking at the totality of your posts in this comment section it becomes obvious.

      something else has also become obvious and that is… MDRW = Miner49er = Innocent Bystander.

      you can change your name but your logic flow and style of writing and your method of juxtaposition of points gives you away.

      • OK, well that’s not true. I’ve read the Truth About Guns emails for years. This is the 1st time I’ve ever commented. You have no idea who or what you’re talking about.

        I do believe in the right to carry–everywhere, I just happen to think you should have some training, or better yet be able to pass some sort of competency test before you do–that’s it. But, yet you say that I don’t agree with the right to carry.

        • Then why do you continue with your argument? It’s obvious no one here agrees with your mandates and requirements, yet you continue to argue your point, nobody cares, no one is going to change their minds because you make such a compelling argument (NOT) and you will only become more and more frustrated, I just hate to see you become a gun statistic because you failed to win hearts and influence people who for the most part are well trained and are long time gun owners/users who firmly believe in the absolute letter of the 2nd Amendment..

        • @MDRW

          “I do believe in the right to carry–everywhere, I just happen to think you should have some training, or better yet be able to pass some sort of competency test before you do–that’s it. But, yet you say that I don’t agree with the right to carry.”

          I say that because you don’t. you believe in the ‘control’ over a person exercising their constitutional right and removing that right for law abiding people.

          You have repeatedly over the totality of your posts posited the very same anti-gun agenda points of gun control that are bought up again and again by anti-gun. you just do it in the form of questions then go on to elaborate on your own question to make a point that substantiated your own question. Then you have twisted meanings around and excluded to make strawman arguments all focused on control of exercise of the 2A. then you impose definitions and conditions on people in your discussion to keep the discussion in your context that was invented in the aspect of control. These are the same tactics anti-gun uses and the same tactics the other two use.

          “OK, well that’s not true. I’ve read the Truth About Guns emails for years. This is the 1st time I’ve ever commented. You have no idea who or what you’re talking about.”

          it is true. you have shown it to be true.

          Lurking around reading doesn’t mean anything, anti-gun and even the White House read TTAG and lots of other pro-2A sites and routinely lurk.

          MDRW = Miner49er = Innocent Bystander.

          you have the same exact name logic flow and style of writing and method of juxtaposition of points as these. those are unique to a person when they write. its like a finger print almost, but yours are exactly the same as those other two. its pretty unlikely that unless you are transcribing directly from a script written by one of these other two that you are not one and the same anti-gun gun control advocate person.

  9. You LARPers still don’t get why Florida CAN’T have open carry. TOURISTS, for Christ’s sake. Europeans, South Americans, Asians, all the hell over, have NEVER seen civilians openly carrying, and they aren’t even remotely comfortable with it. Florida would lose many tens or hundreds of millions in tourist dollars over open carry, plain and simple. Try thinking outside your own experiences for once in your damn lives.

    • Tourists are some of the most affected by crime. Coming from the airport with your special license plates on your rental car screems unarmed victims. Visitors can deal with it and if not GTFO. They are on our soil you jackass.

    • TOURISTS?

      Tourists don’t hang out where I do, there will never be any type of carry in the “attractions” areas and nobody is going to open carry on the beaches… Tourists walking around the streets of Daytona and Miami have their heads so far up their asses most would never notice a little 9mm hanging on a belt with a t-shirt draped over it, and I’m pretty sure not that many Rambos would be running around with a tac holster down on his/her thigh or carrying “cowboy” with a quick draw holster… NOT a LARPer…

      • Years back the rental cars had stickers on them that had the rental companies name.
        They got rid of that, too many tourists getting robbed or robbed and shot.
        The tourists in Florida should be carrying, they still stick out.
        “Be prohibited from carrying firearms in cars”
        That might be one of the dumbest things that has ever been on this site.

    • red wolf

      apparently you do not understand the concept of exercise of constitutional rights does not depend on if another is comfortable with it or not.

      tourists from other countries visit Florida because they choose to do so. No one promised them the people of Florida would ‘clean up cause company is coming’. their visit does not impose a responsibility on the people of Florida to not continue exercise of their rights.

      if they are offended or don’t feel comfortable with the exercise of a constitutional right they are free to leave and go home or to another state.

    • on an air boat in the ‘glades open carry makes sense…in downtown Miami, not so much…at least on the street…shopkeepers get a bye…just remember if someone actually sees you with a gun they may try to take it from you….

      • “just remember if someone actually sees you with a gun they may try to take it from you….”

        That’s a good thing to remember, and despite the idea that it doesn’t happen it has happened. It’s happened to police officers. I had someone try to make a grab attempt for mine once, luckily I was using a level II active retention holster at the time so in the way he grabbed for it wasn’t able to get it. Had I been using a passive retention ‘friction retention’ (which despite the hype is not really a retention other than for keeping the gun from just falling out of the holster or to keep it from moving around) – the guy probably would have been able to get the gun from the way he was able to grab it.

        Since that time when someone tried to make that grab for my gun, I have destroyed every one of the ‘friction retention’ holsters I had and stopped giving them away. Eventually over 100 of them I cut up into pieces, brand new and some slightly used top of the line brand name holsters. If I had been using one of those when that guy made his grab for my gun he would have been able to get the gun. But that’s just me, I wasn’t going to give them away because of that incident and they were never going to be used by me and I did not want to throw them away intact – so I cut them up into pieces so they could never be used again.

        But realistically, overall its extremely rare that someone actually grabs for an open carry gun from someones holster. That does not mean there are not those who think about it and thinking about it does happen a lot. I had one gang tattooed guy staring at my gun so intently and trying to jockey for position so much it became obvious to me and a few other customers to the point where we just put our items down and left the store. There are people out there that think about it, maybe not so obviously but they are around. But still, actual grabs for open carry guns are extremely rare.

        The argument goes “Well, that’s one reason why you carry concealed. If they can’t see it they don’t know you have it so don’t grab for it.” and there is merit and logic in that argument. I mostly carry concealed. Sometimes I open carry, for example, to and from the range or I’ll do it for a quick errand and sometimes just because I want to, but concealed ~90% of the time.

        Open carry vs concealed carry, arguments for and against everywhere.

        Its funny though, or can be, if you encounter an anti-gun person. I’ve seen it happen – two people talking and getting along fine, one rabidly spit spewing anti-gun and doesn’t know the other is carrying concealed and everything is fine but the next time they meet the previously carrying concealed person is open carrying and the rabidly spit spewing anti-gun person wants them to burn in hell and is not worried about the scene they are making claiming ‘he’s likely to kill us !” in their hysteria and others standing around staring at them wondering when the guys with the straight jacket are going to show up and take this anti-gun person away. Open carry guy not doing anything wrong, his only sin now was that he was open carrying. Its still the same constitutional right being expressed, no rivers of blood in the streets, none of the other what are in the overall falsely claimed things anti-gun claims will happen happened, but for some as of yet undefined and logic lacking reason if he does it in secret (as in concealed) its fine.

        Non firearms people, anti-gun people, open carry/use objects/things every day that inflict more injury or death annually than all the guns owed by ordinary law abiding people put together have inflicted in any one decade by more then ~1,500 times. Just in one aspect alone: Look at the picture with this article of the Moms Demand Action protesting, most of those if not all drive a car openly, and their protest seems to be in or near an area where cars would be – a person is more than ~1,200 times more likely to be run into or over by a car (yes, even if driven by a Moms Demand Action person) than they are to be shot by a law abiding gun owner (excluding cases of self/home/other-defense).

        Moms Demand Action people literally having a ‘thing’ (their cars), one of the more likely sources of injury or death and here they are protesting the least likely and more firmly controlled ‘thing’ (guns) that is literally one of the least likely sources of injury or death controlled by the law abiding gun owner carrying open or concealed (excluding cases of self/home/other-defense).

        But, back to the “Just remember…”; so much more common by almost ~1.5 million times more likely than someone trying to grab a firearm from an open carry persons holster – this …

        Just remember, if someone actually sees you with your car they may try to take it from you.

        Just remember, if someone actually sees you with your money they may try to take it from you.

        Just remember, if someone actually sees you with your family they may try to take them from you.

        Just remember, if someone actually sees you with your purchases they may try to take them from you.

        Just remember, if someone actually sees you they may try to take your life.

        Just remember, its pretty likely any number of many violent criminal acts can happen at any time. If you are prepared to defend yourself/family/even if necessary others with a firearm you stand a much better chance of stopping the threat. When that moment comes, it does not matter if you are carrying open or concealed.

    • @ red wolf

      “Florida would lose many tens or hundreds of millions in tourist dollars over open carry, plain and simple.”

      Plain and simple? Really?

      The false logic of anti-gun.

      Nope, not plain and simple.

      The other states where people can open carry haven’t suffered any such ‘financial’ fate ‘armageddon’ as you claim would be ‘plain and simple’ for Florida.

  10. Here’s a pro gun counter for the democrat list, for their first amendment right:

    * Obtain $100,000 worth of insurance if they “opt out” of the Phone-Carry program and carry a phone anyway.

    * Be prohibited from possessing homemade signs.

    * Be prohibited from carrying a phone in grocery stores, gas stations, music venues or any religious institution or use on the internet to express speech.

    * Be prohibited from open carrying a phone at concert venues and polling places.

    * Be prohibited from carrying phones in cars.

    * Submit to background checks for private sales of phones or when a phone is loaned to family members for use.

    * Take a phone safety class and pass a written exam.

    * Provide a written statement from a Florida physician certifying they are mentally fit and free of drug abuse.

    * Pass a mental health exam and drug screen.

    * Take and pass a one-day phone use class that includes a live-phone use test.

    * Establish secure storage for phones, which would be inspected by a law enforcement officer.

    * Submit to fingerprinting and a background check.

    * Be limited to carrying only one phone at a time.

    * Be prohibited from carrying a phone if convicted of domestic violence.

    Lets see how they like their first amendment rights infringed and subject to permission of the state and intrusion into their lives.

    • I like how they establish that rights can be intruded upon. Think what we can do to democrat voters with their own logic. Permits. Fees. The sky is the limit once you accept that rights aren’t.

    • “Lets see how they like their first amendment rights infringed and subject to permission of the state and intrusion into their lives.

      Very attractive set of limitations.

    • Be prohibited from carrying a phone in grocery stores, gas stations, music venues or any religious institution or use on the internet to express speech.

      and restaurants…

      • “Be prohibited from carrying a phone if convicted of domestic violence.”

        You forgot the three day wait. Where they have to leave their phones in the hands of strangers for three days before they get to use them.

  11. Passing Constitutional Carry in Florida Means a Constant Fight Against Gun Banners’ Lies and Distortions…

    And that is different HOW??? Fl has been under assault by the “rivers of blood in the streets” gun-grabbers ever since they passed “shall issue” CW permits, why should that change? They’ve been trying to have scary black rifles banned since the 90s, I’d kind of miss their dumbassery if they suddenly gave up, besides they spend a lot of money in the state, helps keep the coffers full…

    • Are lattes that expensive? I guess if they get their nails and hair done there it might bring in some revenue but from the looks of them they slept in their cars.

      • They gotta eat, put gas in those cars, they run ads on local TV constantly… They’ve got Bloombergs millions they have to spend it somewhere…

  12. You know who we need in this time of distress? A real patriot. Show us how it’s done, Cato…

    Since we are all talk and no action, lay out your plan of attack to give us all our civil rights back. Especially in states like NY and CA. They could really use your infinite wisdom.

    something something mess with the bull something something

  13. As a rabid supporter for the open carry of long guns, and all ARMs, I find it astonishing that you cannot open carry after a hurricane is passed in Florida???

    But I still would support these bills as they are written currently. This is not a debate about whether “the glass is half full or half empty”. Currently Millions of law-abiding residents of the State of Florida are being denied their civil rights. We can always come back for more later. And we most certainly should.

    And this is a war of propaganda. It just drives the “slave masters” crazy that we can say that “half the country now is constitutional carry”. In the future when we can say that “MORE THAN HALF the country now is constitutional carry”, perhaps then the anti-civilrights people will sadly kill themselves.

    Or they can just leave the country. As so many of them have promised to do so in the past. Then we can ban them from ever returning to this country.

    • “And this is a war of propaganda. It just drives the “slave masters” crazy that we can say that “half the country now is constitutional carry”. In the future when we can say that “MORE THAN HALF the country now is constitutional carry” ”

      Friends, neighbors, men, women, boys, girls (and them that ain’t too sure), please check your expectations. All, that is all, instances of states (not States) where “permitless” carry exists, the status is based on simple, majority rules, legislation; legislation that can be repealed at any point in the future. Obesrve: Bruen did not end gun control, only exposed the Medea that must be killed, one snake at a time.

        • “Nice play on words Sam…”

          Da Nada. Swiped it from the Hollywood version of “Paint Your Wagon”.

      • You are correct. Laws can be repealed. That is why the fight for liberty is a never-ending one. Anyone who believes that tyrants will quit after you obtain your Liberty, are living in a Fool’s dream.

        They will never give up the fight to make you their slaves.

        The best long-term solution really is to ensure that children are taught their civil rights as early as possible. And this includes having shooting teams in the schools. They can use BB guns and air guns in the earlier grades.
        And then they can start using real firearms, handguns and long guns, at the high school level. And this would show an elevation of required responsibility and maturity, as they progress in age and grade level.

        That is why the gun grabbers, who have no children, want to tell you what your kids can learn and cannot learn in school.

        But they do certainly want your children to learn about oral and @n@l sez.

  14. stop Florida from becoming the 26th state to allow residents and visitors to carry concealed firearms..

    Thought SC was the 26th, we’re already over half the states…

  15. Is that Amanda Suffecool in the background of this photograph? Did she fly all the way in from Arizona, to speak on behalf of FL constitutional carry?

  16. I wish this bill had open carry but like the gun grabbers say… this is an important first step…. Hopefully within the next 4 years the republicans in charge will have the cajones to let Floridians open carry if they want to.

  17. I agree, 16 hours is a lot especially today. Everything happens in a nano-second.

    I think that a better requirement might be that you need to prove you have what it takes with a 15 minute test that you could study for on your own time. Required for carrying in public, again when you carry in public without proper training aren’t you stepping on someone else’s rights?

    • Exercising my rights without a permission slip is not ‘stepping on someone’s rights’. Until I commit an actual crime I have stepped on nothing.

      The constitution was written to protect the rights of the individual, not the group.

  18. Open carry? Concealed carry? What’s the difference?
    And gee whizz, I started open carrying because I was hoping I’d get some comments on my cool looking barbque gunm , but nope, around here I guess nobody gives a shit. One thing I do have to say about open carry is it seems to me to be a whole lot faster to get the gunm into action then when I was conceal carrying.
    As for Floridians not wanting gunms, all those people should be taken out in a boat and dropped off in some swamp somewhere with nothing but one leaky rubber boot , nothing else. I’d bet come morning theyd damn sure wish theyd have had a gunm.
    Moms Demand Action, well it’s not my fault the milkman dont come around anymore. Theres only so much Karen a man can stand.
    Get rid of Disneyland too.
    If Minnie Mouse is fking goofy is it Mickeys fault, or the dogs? Sleeping Beauty, no thank you apple, she’s fcking bananas too. Seven dwarfs, seven?
    Prince Charming has a Pork Sword.

    • Trigger words, If it makes you feel any better I am also sitting in Moderation.
      I looked for the trigger word twice, reposted and said screw it.
      Since I’m moderated I added more known trigger words.

        • Could be, I think mine was pretty harmless. It was in “Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge Story of the Day: Louisville Cop Wounds 2”
          I deleted my 1st post and reposted after I thought I found the trigger word.
          I was wrong plus this site did not delete my first post so I am going to have a double post.
          For spite I added some choice trigger words.