california ammunition background check
A photo from The Time Before (Dan Z for TTAG)
Previous Post
Next Post

Around the fall of 2020, I started to see forum comments, social media posts and reactions, remarks on web articles, etc.—and I mean tons of it— from upstanding, law-abiding, patriotic Americans. Virtually all of them were whining about first the lack of availability of guns and ammunition, and soon after the increased prices of both.

To start, virtually every single one cried foul about the lack of supply. Despite a healthy dose of reporting on the subject in shooting media outlets and even coverage in the mainstream media, almost everyone who commented about the issue insisted that there must be some conspiracy restricting supply. The fact that there was a pandemic that made work conditions less-than-optimal for production and disrupted supply lines, or the fact that five to 10 million new gun owners entered the market in a period of about 90 days did not matter. There must have been some sinister force at play.


The supply problems were entirely due to an unprecedented increase in demand combined with COVID social-distancing measures and some resultant hiccups in the supply chain. But that was merely the start of seeing how fine Americans who likely identify as conservative or libertarian—but certainly not leftist, socialist or, with apologies to P.J. O’Rourke, puke-gutted-bolshevik-rectum-eater—slowly morphed into dirty, filthy communists.

Around the beginning of 2021, the complaints began to change as the ammunition supply began to increase and inventory started to show up on retailers’ shelves, albeit at prices most would consider ridiculous, like $50 for a 50-round box of Russian steel-cased 9 mm. I get it; that commie garbage should be like 15 cents per round, not a buck per shot. But, why might prices have increased?

Because. Of. Demand.

I will say it again: because of demand. Everyone knows that the whole damn country is buying or wants to buy ammunition. The pandemic, violent rioting in our cities, cuts in law enforcement budgets, calls to eliminate the police and hateful, eliminationist rhetoric directed at supporters of the 45th President of the United States are but a few reasons why many—if not most—Americans thought 2020 would be a good year to arm up to protect hearth, home and family.

— Koba in Everyone is a Communist About What They Want

[ED: Be sure to click over and read the entire post.]


Previous Post
Next Post


    • I’ll just say that this Tuesday, Bi-Mart, a regional, employee owned, Walmart like store was selling Blazzer Brass 9mm for $14.99 a box of 50. You’re limited to two boxes. I can’t believe other stores are paying suppliers any more than Bi-Mart for ammo so why are they charging double or more for the same ammo? Because people are paying it. Solution – stop buying from these places and the price will come down.

    • There’s no conspiracy. Look at the price of all resources right now. Wood is *insanely* expensive right now for example.

      I was going to fence another couple acres of my land this year…. yeah to hell with that.

    • You obviously have not worked in or owned a gun store. Our costs have gone way up, try to stay abreast of the whole gun-ammo demand thing.

      • I’ve witnessed a gun store mark up ammo to match Web prices – just cause he could. He and a friend started selling their reloaded ammo close to those prices also. Like some others on here – they had bought cases of supplies when the buyer was king. My reloads are costing me $8.64 a box of 50 for 9mm – till present supplies run out. So their .70 a round in baggies was a little high for my taste. But ! – They did have ammo to sell when other locals did not !

        • Anyone who bemoans the today’s price for ammo WAS COMPLETELY NEGLIGENT IN, WELL, NEGLECTING TO BUY IT IN QUANTITY WHEN IT WAS CHEAP.


    • Not sure that would account for much money from police departments that only give their officers enough ammo for the bare minimum amount of training.

  1. “Balderdash” is dead right.

    The principles of supply and demand, and the impact of the second being greater than the first in a free economic system is well established to the point of being a strongly and widely held belief / principle.

    That said, I’ve seen prices of “some” ammunition moderating of late. So, supply is catching up.

    Again, that said, Biden’s new Executive Orders are very likely to result in hoarding of guns and ammo across the U.S. So, expect prices to increase again.

    Lastly, I’m grateful as all get out that the Biden Administration’s threat to gun rights has FINALLY forced some, actually many, many citizens to resort to gun and ammo purchase when, for some inexplicable reason to me, they’ve been, as the expression goes, “sitting it out”.

    • Laws of supply and demand work the same in a non free economic system, only it’s the politically connected that have plenty rather than those who work hard and innovate. Which of course leads to a shortage of hard work and innovation, exacerbating the supply issues.

  2. On the other hand, I bid on a box of .223 on Gunbroker. The starting price then was about $40 and I bid $50. It had a Buy Now price of $60. There were 10 boxes available. I went back that evening and they were all gone. The very next day those same boxes, exact same picture, exact same description, were on Gunbroker with a starting bid of $110 each. Yeah, guy took advantage and made a killing. Capitalism. Was I angry? Nope. That’s just the way it works.

    • Exactly this. While I’m not pleased at the current prices and (lack of) availability, this is simply what happens in a free market. Demand skyrockets, consumption and prices follow accordingly.

      It’s all happened before, multiple times. We’ll likely never see 2019 prices again, but they will level off and come down to find a new plateau, even if it takes a couple of years to do so. When the time comes, stock up. Many of us did so during the “Trump slump” years between 2017-2019, and will do so again when the next dip comes.

      • Exactly – and it’s not just about demand, but panic-driven demand.

        While the shutdown made hunting more attractive in some places, it restricted it in others (along with ranges). Competitive shooting is way down. Looting and arson could easily have spilled into gunfire – but they didn’t, in any significant numbers.

        People aren’t shooting more; they’re hoarding more, and then blaming others because their emotion-fueled compulsion isn’t cheap.

    • I don’t buy ammo that is far too overpriced. 5 bux over per box is my lkimit. I;’ve been stocking up since obama was POTUS, so I’m not all that desperate.
      Plus overpaying too much only makes the sellers think they can charge even more.
      As evidenced by your online experience.

    • This.
      They’re using the scamdemic to cover for the money printer going brrrrrrrr…… as if the end is in sight and things will come back down.
      Get ready for $5/gal gas and $8/lb beef this Summer.

      • I predicted gas at $6 to $8/gallon by June. I still think it will get there, assuming there is any at all. I suspect that the gas supplies will start to dry up as the BidenHarris regime slow down and eventually stop production. Except of course for the Politburo members and favored few.

        • Reality Check, needs a reality check…
          I paid 4.80 a gal in SoCal a few years back. It could definitely happen.

        • Gas hit $5 here in SoCal back in 2008 before collapsing to $1.75 for a while, then staying at $2.50 for years. It’s been at $3.50 for a while, and now creeping up. I’ve recently seen 87 octane locally up at $4, and almost at $5 in high demand areas. Sure, we have to account for the 13 years’ worth of inflation since 2008, but as Michael states above, prices will rise.

        • Price of Gas in California or NY has no bearing on cost in the rest of the country. California you’re paying a high Government Tax and special blend premium. Many states are way below what you’re claiming. Now if the present Administration gets their Federal gas tax hike? That’s national. Markets went up some “Just Because” the pipeline has halted, but there wasn’t anything flowing through it yet. The container ship stuck in the Suez canal probably had more impact. Oil is still flowing where the wells are, and fracking will be stopped on “Federal land” NOT private. So here in the land of $2.60 a gallon, or less in the next state over. $5 per gl ain’t in the near future.
          note: If you live in a area of Old Wells, they will look abandoned during the glut and cheap prices, amazing how many still work when gas hits over $55 to $65 per Barrel. More come on line.

    • It’s already started with food in some parts of the country, This should never happen in a free enterprise capitalist Country like America that always has more than enough food for everyone. It’s known as the ‘progressive precursor’ to terminal tyrannical Totalitarianism. You know, the rapidly transmitted social disease that throughout history destroyed economies like recently in Venezuela, and others and now the Philipines, and coming soon, to a theater near you. Because when the retail food prices become inflated with the other indicator of sparse stock on the shelves, it might become too late to reverse without catastrophic economic consequences.

      Anyone regardless of their political disposition who doesn’t live at the bottom of the ocean can see by now that they were duped by and knows this is happening right under our noses with this new Marxist government regime in full unabashed in your face power exploitation. When an administration hasn’t even whispered of ways to curb out of control debt or plans to improve the overall wealth of our Nation in the world economy but screams about spending Trillions of dollars on no value projects that amounts to how a Drunken Sailor on shore leave pisses away money for all his friends with on the house BJs at a ‘ho-house’ the writing is in huge capital letters all over the shit-house wall.

      We all know this but we just seem to be stuck in a state of mental intransigence. Like a form of normalcy bias and denial. Or a deer froze in the ‘headlights’ of a runaway Communist freight train. So we really don’t ‘know’ what exactly to do about it.

      Here’s the answer to the Analysis Paralysis: We must all get on a daily routine of fighting fire with fire. It must become part of an ongoing duty to preserve your rights and freedom. It took them 4 years of attacking the Trump administration literally every freaking day, with every kind of psycho tactic and treachery their demented midget Marxist mentalities could muster. Non Stop, with never an end in sight. Until they finally accomplished their Coup. And it wasn’t only against Trump, it was against all Liberty-loving Americans.

      We Now must do the same think with the same instense effort right back only with a little stronger firepower. And i don’t mean that bullshit Molan Labe stuff or Jeffersonian ‘Moutholution’. I mean grass roots PPP, the Peoples Political Power activist commitees. We all engage in easy to set up local small Political PAC organizations for a legitimate civil voice and build up voting group numbers as a network to Trump’s alternate party efforts if the GOP and Libertarians don’t unite in concert with the goal of ridding our country of this deadly Communist party and giving it back to we the people.

      We also use our PAC groups to support changes in State and County governments with counter-punches like some states are thankfully moving out on with making laws against unconstitutional Federal mandates or laws, counter gun laws like ‘No Permit’ Constitutional carry, etc., and electing ‘Constitutional Sherrifs (Constitutional Sherrif education/ Mack) who will not violate their Oaths to uphold your 2nd/A rights by enforcing illegal gun control laws and by supporting 2/A Sanctuary Counties.

      And there’s one other move we can make but only with the help of some honest and Courageous Attorney Generals and Law enforcement officials that may be the most important of all at some point?

      It’s the pro-active enforcement of a little known (intentionally, of course) Federal Law with concrete stature that has all but been completely ignored until some recent interest among rights advocates.

      It mind bends almost all the conversation about stuck in the mud arguing that Biden’s anti-Constitutional ‘lawmaking’ or any other means to deprive you of you well-established rights and guarantees against infringement thereof. How they tricked virtually everyone into simply ignoring this absolute perfect storm of an immediate Remedy for these rights depriving tyrants I’m still trying to figure out. (I think “Brainwashed, the Movie” might explain it)

      It’s called USCC 18-241-242. It’s a clear indisputable, backed by case precedent, Federal Law that amounts to Brass Knuckles in a bar-room brawl with this crucial fight we have.

      As an independent researcher/analyst I’m concluding that it seems to appear that the only reason it’s not in regular usage and enforcement, is that because the entire Criminal Justice System is so corrupt that if this law was actually enforced, there would be no room left in the prison systems for all the guilty parties involved from the lowest street cop to the highest courts?

      So far it seems to have only been used as an ‘add-on charge’ for more ‘ammo’ to use by prosecutors in trying to get a convenient plea-deal from a disadvantaged offender(also a highly corrupted part of Due process). Or maybe on a few cops who technically ‘deprived people of their rights in some way during an arrest attempt. Espcially against protected minorities, and public outcry wants them really punished?

      It’s not too hard to imagine how fast all these ‘Unconstitutional anti-2nd/A legislative or fiat administrative mandates would come to a shocking crashing STOP, if some of these Legislators, prosecutors, judges, and even LEOs were arrested, shackled, and perp-walked out of their cozy government offices as an example of violations of…

      USCC 18-241-242!

      • “(Constitutional Sherrif education/ Mack)“

        You know, nowhere in the Constitution will you find the word ‘Sherrif’ or Sheriff.

        • Neither will you find gun bans yet the left won’t stop circle jerking that all over us either.

        • Yes, I have read the part about requiring regulations for the militia:

          “A well regulated militia,”

  3. Fundamental fact of human nature; people are stupid.

    People gripe about having to go back to work after living off the gubmint credit card for 5 months, then immediately gripe about the shit they want to buy being out of stock. They simply don’t have the mental capacity to understand that everyone taking months off work will inevitably lead to a reduction in supply of just about everything. Boggles the mind.

    • You’re essentially correct, Gov. William, about the pragmatic mechanics of the situation but after many years of studying ‘people’ and their integrations of social behavioral psychology, I wouldn’t call most people ‘Stupid’, but rather intentionally or manipulatively ‘blissfully ignorant. I think the younger general populace as a whole is far more intelligent than most of us were a couple generations ago, just by the sheer accumulative preponderance of instant availability of knowledge all around them. Overwhelming them from all directions.

      And the attendant stress of society’s increasing complexity causes a preference toward an over-abundance of hedonistic narcissism as a push-back culture in itself, which of course has been anathema to a truly advanced and enlightened society. Also the young have been assaulted constantly by insidious agenda-based brainwashing in many venues from the school systems to subliminal marketing and messaging for decades. (see ‘Brainwashed, the Movie’)

      ‘Stupid’ is a difficult problem to solve in humans and since AI is easier to work with and much smarter than humans, the powers that be won’t waste too much time or money on trying to ‘fix’ genuinely stupid people.

      But the rest of us who just don’t understand anything because we are basically living in a ‘cloud of ignorance, could be ‘salvaged’ with the simple exercise in reality called truth and authentic knowledge in education.

      But a lot would have to change before that kind of ‘awakening’ could happen.

      So my friend, until that happens, those of us who ‘do know everything will always be irritated by those who only ‘think they know everything.

      Or, I like Mark Twain’s way of putting it. “It’s not that people don’t know so much. It’s just that so much of what people ‘know’…just Ain’t So!’

  4. Perhaps I’m being too judgemental…but…when the ammo and gun shortage began which led to the higher prices I couldn’t have cared less.

    For the past 20 years I’ve had all the ammo I could swim in for the many calibers of firearms I have in the gun safe. Actually, the ammo has its own safe. And, that safe is bulging.

    Indeed, I not only bought enough ammo to meet any reasonably conceivable crisis, but, I ALSO LOADED VERY HIGH NUMBER OF MAGAZINES WITH THAT AMMO AND VACUUM SEALED THEM (with a table spoon of rice to absorb any amount of water that may have been on the ammo / magazine and to protect from the failure of the vacuum).

    Piss poor planning results in piss poor results, my dear fellows. Perhaps I’m being too judgemental, but,…

      • Of course. For people who knew better and failed to plan ahead, tough.

        But what of all those newbies who bought guns in the past years? All those voters who suddenly think owning a gun for self defense is a good idea?

        Oh, but at the same time the ammo retailers are bleeding them dry to be able to enjoy that new gun.

        How does that greed help us?

        Answer, it not only doesn’t help us it’s a stab in the back.

        • I know people like to rail on big box stores, but I believe Academy kept ammo prices reasonable. They had to limit how much you can purchase because people were buying it at retail and turning around and selling it or they were hoarding it.

      • Some sensible gun owners have below stated that their purchase planning reduces their anxiety about the Biden administration and ensured their peace of mind.

        You might do well to read their posts.

        • Please let us know how ammunition piled high in my closet fixes the damage the Puppet Joe Administration is inflicting on this country. This should be interesting.

        • This discussion is about ammunition prices.

          Although I would tend to agree with what appears to be your wariness of the Biden Administration regarding gun control, that’s now the topic of my response.

          My response was about the bleating heart, long-term gun owners and, presumably, conservatives who failed to stock up on ammo long ago when it was comparatively inexpensive.

          There are now, in this very thread, many other gun owners who share my view…Without proper prior planning you get piss poor performance.

          If you or others are not stocked up now with ammo, OR, IF YOU OR OTHERS DIDN’T REALIZE THAT THE TIME WOULD COME WHEN YOUR RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS MIGHT BE THREATENED BY THE GOVERNMENT…then it’s on you.

          Just take responsibility for your error and rectify it, OK. And, that includes those who have delayed purchasing firearms, for whatever reason, all these years. PERCEPTION OF THE DEPRIVATION OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT MATTERS…JUST AS MUCH AS DO BLACK GUNS MATTER.

        • “Although I would tend to agree with what appears to be your wariness of the Biden Administration regarding gun control, that’s now the topic of my response.”

          Wariness of the Biden Administration regarding gun control? That’s hilarious. How did you come up with that? That’s the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the Puppet Joe Administration.

          “My response was about the bleating heart, long-term gun owners and, presumably, conservatives who failed to stock up on ammo long ago when it was comparatively inexpensive.”

          “Just take responsibility for your error and rectify it, OK.”

          Are you lost again David? Where did I say I had anxiety over not having enough ammo? Go back and read my comments, and think about it before responding. You aren’t making any sense.

    • Yes, buy cheap stack deep. That is the saying, and repeating it during those times of plenty was a reasonable thing to do. At this juncture your comment is unhelpful and simply reeks of smug condescension. Hence the negative reactions.

      For those who just got into guns, those who just managed to move to free states, and those just turning old enough to start buying firearms (all of which are not a small percentage of the Second Amendment population) your comments are self-congratulatory dick-waving. Distasteful, unwise, and the mark of a jackass.

      • But for the name-calling, I tend to agree with you, hence the statement that my views wouldn’t be well-received here.

        But have you responded similarly to the what looks like more than a half dozen other posters below who feel the same way I have to the lassitude some gun owners display towards preparedness?

        If so, I don’t see it.

        If you care to look you’ll see that there are in the comments below a substantial number of posters who agree that “PISS POOR PLANNING RESULTS IN PISS POOR PERFORMANCE”

        Admittedly, new gun owners can be excused to a certain degree for needing to learn the realities of the ammo market. But certainly not the veterans of the gun wars among us.

        Anyway, thank you for your almost polite reply. Good and well-meaning men can disagree. I’m one of them. And, I don’t call others with whom I disagree derogatory names (as seen in your above response).



  5. There is only a fraction of titanium parts available now and it is specifically because of how hard it has been to ship raw material into the US. Some of it can be had within our borders but most titanium comes from over seas. COVID is a global issue and so are lock downs.

    Ammo and guns themselves are being affected the same way. With high demand and low resources/supply, we should all expect higher prices and anemic shelves.

    With the Washington left and most of our news media stoking fear in everyone, it’s no surprise people think there is a conspiracy. Basic economics is rarely taught anymore.

  6. Fall 2020?!?! A lot of us noticed it in March and April, right when the Kung Flu Plandemic took off.

    • As soon as the pandemic was a thing, firearms and ammo sold out. It didn’t take long before prices were coming back down and stock was going back up (I recall checking often and seeing this)…then the riots started.

      It’s funny how most of the left wing articles blamed the pandemic for the firearm purchase surge instead of the obvious community destroying, corporate sponsored, media and Democrat promoted BLM-Antifa crazies.

  7. Oh, tommyrot.

    Everyone needs a good conspiracy in their lives to make sense of everything. Nobody likes a party pooper.

    You Jabberwock.

  8. Economics 101 supply and demand. Limited supply and high demand drives prices up. First 3 years of Trump had huge supply and limited demand which kept prices low. Demand so low the gun industry was in a recession. Low prices for ammo. Huge rebates on new guns. Heck H&K lowered the p30 retail price by $300! In all my decades in the industry this was their FIRST price reduction. $900 to $600. Four big distributors went out of business. Freedom group went out of business. Remington, Marlin, Bushmaster, DPMS, ParaOrd gone. Olympic Arms gone plus many other small companies. Thankfully they will continue to make ammo so this will eventually subside. They can’t make new civilian legal machine guns since may 19th 1986 and that’s why a registered m16 now costs 30k and not $800. I thought 7k was ridiculous for a m16 20 years ago. Oh and gas is already $4.89 gallon in Needles, CA

    • Yours is a very informative reply…from someone, apparently, in the industry. I had no idea that the firearms industry went through such turmoil during the Trump years.

      Again, thanks for an informative reply as it gave me more context to consider.



    • The Remington owned brands suffered by being laden with massive debt by typical Wall Street financial wolves. Leveraging the company’s assets to borrow money, extracting the money while leaving the massive debt behind to crush the company. It is a long standing play in high finance.

      Not at all a good example of what is wrong now. Which is greedy people taking advantage of a bad situation and unintentionally doing serious harm to their own industry.

      I have all I need, but I know people who have given up shooting because of the cost of ammo.

      All those millions of new gun owners on our side, and they are being stabbed in the back by the gun industry itself.


      • At least two CEOs of ammo manufacturers have released videos in which they state they’re working around the clock and shipping +30% volume. They’re doing what they can, not “stabbing us in the back”.

        Think about it…right now they are making money hand over fist, so they’re taking advantage of the profit potential and making as much product as possible. Wouldn’t you?

        • I doubt the Ammo manufacture is making money hands over fist! I’d say the closer you get to the point of sale, the higher the mark !
          example – I just paid $14.95 for a box(50) of brass “Blazzer 9mm”
          115gr ball ammo. Limit 1 box. That store nor their supplier were jacking up squat! And they were stopping the resale bandits from rolling out a cart full. An example of “Honest Economics !

        • The manufacturers price their product accordingly to make their desired profit, and if they’re selling everything they produce, then by definition they’re making a lot of profit, which was my point.

          Thought I do agree with you that there are certainly additional markups along the way to the end retailer in most cases. Two years ago I was still paying $35 for a box of 200 rds 9mm target ball. At the beginning of 2021, I saw $35 for 50 rds, and just a few weeks ago it was up at $56!…that’s over a dollar per round for plain ‘ol target ammo!

          The “scarcity effect” will continue as long as people gobble up whatever they can, whenever they can, and at whatever price. Prices will subside only when consumers fall back and allow the shelves to fill again.

      • “I have all I need, but I know people who have given up shooting because of the cost of ammo.”

        Well, there’s some truth to that. I haven’t fired my higher caliber weapons for nearly a year now due to the expense of ammo and my ironclad desire to maintain ammunition reserves if the SHTF.

        But, I’ve re-discovered my .22s.

        My wife’s a small person. Recoil is a problem for her, particularly with .308s and AR-10s.

        She’s not only enjoying the change, but also, SHE’S OUT-SHOOTING ME ESPECIALLY IN OFFHAND, DARN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Anyway, I was considering one of those .22LR rifles that look like ARs for her. Any feedback on that idea?

        • I got re-started shooting about 5 years ago when my in-laws took me to an indoor range where we rented a few firearms. (I shot .22 and air rifles as a pre-teen and teen.)

          I got to shoot an AR style .22 and I liked it a lot. I think it was a Smith. So much of the .22 world is hung up on 10 round capacity mags. but you can go higher with an AR style or Ruger 10/22.

          The thing I didn’t like about the AR .22 I shot was the all black iron sights when shooting black bulls-eyes.

        • Thank you for the kind reply.

          BTW, perhaps the reason that the black bull’s eye was deemed inappropriate is that you may have been lining up the sights in the middle of the Bull’s eye?

          The correct sight picture is firstly the proper alignment of the iron sights themselves and then THE FRONT SIGHT POST ON THE ABSOLUTE BOTTOM OF THE ROUND, BLACK bull’s eye such that it appears to balance atop the front sight post.

          Now, I’m speaking about sights which were in common use on military weapons during the Vietnam war, where I served. And, that’s how they were zeroed. Your sights may be different.



        • David,
          I bought an M&P 15/22 a few months ago when the LGS had one at a good price by 2019 standards. It is a nice rifle and works well. Hickok45 had some feeding issues with the one he reviewed a few months ago, but I have not noticed that with mine firing the cheapest box ammo I had in stock.

          There was an article here a few years ago about practicing with a 22 was useless. I disagree. There are a lot of things you can practice with a 22 as long as you also practice with whatever you plan to shoot.


    • “Four big distributors went out of business. Freedom group went out of business. Remington, Marlin, Bushmaster, DPMS, ParaOrd gone. Olympic Arms gone plus many other small companies.“

      So in reality, orange man very bad for firearms industry… Fascinating.

    • Yes. That’s precisely what happened. You’re definitely an industry insider. Remington went under because, well, Trump. Without looking into it too much, I’m going to just assume that Ruger managed to succeed because of the 2009 shovel ready Obama stimulus package that all of the smart kids said was the reason for the Post-Obama, Pre-pandemic economic boom.

  9. Was buying 100 count boxes of shotgun target shells last year for $20. LGS is selling same shells for $80. You tell me what’s going on. I got a long memory.

  10. I prepared as best I could. I’m OK for now ammo wise. However I talked at length to a old friend on his birthday yesterday. He reloads and can’t find primers-ANY primers. His wife & 3 grown daughter’s all have 380’s. I can find expensive 9mm & 223/5.56 everywhere. No 380,38,357 or lots of handgun calibers. I’ve bought 12gauge slugs & buckshot for my new shotgun. The gunshops are busy,sales records are set. It’s going to get worse-much worse…thanks to the Dims.

  11. Very simple, it is a matter of greed run amuck.

    “Supply & Demand” is no excuse. It is damaging the very people who support the industry in the first place. As in the anti-gun Democrats current best ally are the price gouging sellers of ammunition working to force people out of owning guns. They do not mean it to work that way but that will be the unintended consequence of all this price gouging.

    No conspiracy, only stupidity fueled by greed.

  12. I’m calling B S on this article…
    I used to buy cases & battle packs of various calibers for way more years than a lot of people are old & never has price & supply been as bad as the last few years,,, just a good thing that I didn’t waste ammo on nonessential baloney.
    They used to roll out my ammo purchases on hand carts or dollies to put into my truck. If I hadn’t filled up my storage area, I’d of bought a lot more.

    • Conspiracy claims are always BS.

      Built my supply up in mostly small buys. Never over a thousand rounds and 90% of the time I’d buy just an extra box of a caliber I own a gun for, just because it was on sale. Nearly fifty years of buying only on sale, always a bit extra, it adds up.

      What’s going on now is a huge rise in new gun ownership and general interest in defensive guns. The supply is having a hard time filling that panic buying.

      At the same time the retail end of things is doing all it can to suck the life out of its customers.

  13. Careful, my friend.

    Some here, as I’ve found out, don’t like to be reminded of their negligence in not buying ammo when it was inexpensive (compared to today).

    See my posts above and the responses.

    Supply and demand relationship is well-established. So too is “LACK OF PROPER PLANNING RESULTS IN PISS POOR PERFORMANCE.”

    • I did what you did, and completely filled up my ammo storage area with literally thousands of dollars’ worth between 2017-2019 when prices were low and supply was abundant. I did so because here in CA our former Gov. Jerry Brown signed AB63 into law (taking effect in mid 2019) that ushered in our infamous “ammo BGC” law. I backed up the truck before it was implemented.

      Plan ahead. Ammo, food, supplies. When others panic buy, you’ll be fine. To some, it’s conspiratorial nonsense. To others, it’s simple prepping.

      • Absolutely right.

        In addition to ammunition, I even have two of what’s called a Water Bob…a plastic reservoir of 50 gallons that can be laid down in a bathtub to collect city water for emergencies stationed in two of my upstairs bathrooms which were once serving my two, now-departed college age kids.

        I also have freeze-dried and nearly impenetrable stores of common food stuffs which fill up 1/4 of my outside shed.

        Planning makes a difference.



        • “You’ll die and your wife will sell it all for pennies on the dollar.”

          And, she’ll be alive and well when she does so, no matter what is the situation in the American society when I expire.

          If I can be allowed to contradict without undue condemnation, IN YOUR VIEW can’t other members of the American society feel differently than you about the dangers the current society seems to hold without condemnation by others?

          I tend to respect the views of others. And, I’m not opposed to polite disagreements. But when someone calls into the argument my wife, well, I have a problem with that sort of post.

          BTW, isn’t my view the very definition of manly responsibility towards his family and other loved ones?

        • I stopped counting at 100k rounds last inventory about a year ago, minimum 100 mags, mostly loaded, for each semi-auto caliber, sheds full of dry goods, MREs, name it, two large spring-fed ponds full of bass and bream, garden, fruit orchard with apple, pear, peach, plum, persimmon, another with blueberries, raspberries, elderberries and blackberries, underground cave full of whatnot, 200-plus acres of paradise covered in blackberries and muscadine, surrounded by thousands more, over-run with deer, turkey (busted one that weighed 26.4 lbs just this morning) dove, ducks, quail, and all sorts of wildlife, morels, genseng, and a poppy field. Around the house and barn there’s chickens, horses, peafowl, cattle, goats, huge garden (maters, taters, okra, peppers, beans, squash, etc.), with room for more, hay field, shooting range, solar, two wells, green house, grow house, many gallons of petrol and diesel and propane, unlimited wood for wood-burning stoves, I could go on. Tractors, ATVs, pickups, backhoe, can grow, drive, build, and hunt anything I need. Work 60 hours a week cause I want to and will til I don’t want to. No stimulus check for this guy. Nothing but friends and family on my rural route, four generations within a mile, town population 380. So, yeah, I have a different view.

  14. All I have to say on the subject is…
    Should’ve been prepared, should’ve seen it coming, should’ve learned to reload…

    There is no “next time”, be cause it’s happening now…too bad, so sad, now you get to pay the price for your “slothness”…

  15. “entirely due to an unprecedented increase in demand combined with COVID social-distancing measures and some resultant hiccups in the supply chain”

    Not entirely and not unprecedented. We all knew that there would be a gun run at the end of Trump’s first term, even if we expected him to win. We knew for sure that if he lasted 2 terms, it would be brutal.
    The people in power(call them “shadow government”, NWO, or Corporacrats) were going to make sure they limited the masses ability to own firearms, whether by law, affordability and/or lack of supply. Similar to Ca. forcing us to jump through hoops to purchase ammo. They realize that many Americans are living hand to mouth, don’t know where the rent money will come from, even if they own a car, they might not even be able to fill the tank. The thought of these people “prepping”, or having firearms and “enough ammo” to hold out a siege is silly. So, if they can interrupt the supply(or tax it to unaffordability), the unwashed masses won’t be able to hold off government agents for long(not to mention the food – water supply).
    Obama’s administration bought up a huge amount of the available ammo and contracted for more – interrupting the supply towards the end of his term. He also created many federal law enforcement groups at the federal level(like Himmler did?).
    I don’t believe this was just supply and demand, this was orchestrated. Supply and demand was during the rise of pocket pistols and the lack of availability of .380 ammo(partially because .380 is made on the same lines as it’s big brother, 9mm and there was a run on that, too).
    I believe that this, too, shall pass. Sooner or later, the people that paid the premium and stacked it deep, will practice with some of their saved(expensive) ammo and things will get back to a more stable price. Gone are the days of $.07 a round for 7.62 x 25 or cheap 9 x 18 ammo. I think they will make even more import restrictions on firearms and supplies.

  16. There is no going back to “normal.” Things have changed forever. I really pity those who didn’t see the tsunami of s* headed our way and didn’t stock up or otherwise prepare. The situation is going to get worse, much worse, before it gets better, and it will take a decade.

    • Yep.

      I got a lot of criticism (see above) for pointing out the very thing you’re saying, the rightful thing you’re saying.


      I’ve a great allegiance to my fellow shooters. But I’ve now been offended by some who parlay their negligence into an excuse and blame their negligence on some imaginary force.

      I’ll just stop there.



      • Some live day-to-day, and others plan for the future. They make foolish decisions and take on more responsibility than they can reasonably handle, and always find themselves behind the eight ball. I used to have friends and family like this, but whenever they had to live with the consequences of their poor decisions, they came running to me for redress, because I was prepared.

        No longer. I have pitched them over the side of the boat.

      • I foresaw this political situation 25 years ago. Ruby Ridge and Waco were a wake up call. 9/11 and the government response doubly so. I relocated across the country and changed careers because of what I saw coming. Whenever I tried to tell friends and family about it they said I was crazy.

        Who gets the last laugh now? Many of them are still stuck in urban s*holes, unarmed and defenseless, pleading for me to let them stay at my place “for a little bit” until they can make arrangements. I told them to f* off.

  17. Nowadays you pay to play. If you are a builder/assembler of the AR platform finding select components is a chore. Get used to seeing Out Of Stock, Back Ordered, No Longer Available, etc.
    Unlike the device you are using firearms are one of things in life that will ptobably outlive you and can be handed down, etc. So pay to play.

  18. It happens every election. If you aren’t aware of it think back 8 years when there were no .22s and 9mm. The CONSPIRACY back then was the IRS was buying up all of the .22. I know Vista Outdoors is cranking out as much ammo as they can make as is Winchester. The problem is exactly as stated in the article, supply and demand. There are people standing outside Bass Pro, Cabelas and Academy when the open hoping to buy 3 or 5 boxes, maybe the ammo truck came in. Are they gouging? Slightly.
    Ammo manufacturers have contracts to fill and some online ammo places have learned the game, some haven’t. Are they gouging? Yes but to different degrees.
    Sportmans Guide with it’s S&B “deal” the other day – $250 for $218.49 SERIOUSLY GOUGING.

    The place that I found that pretty much carries just about everything by Vista Outdoors? Speer Lawman 9mm for $650/1000 Federal AE $700/1000 and Blazer Brass $680/1000 – gouging but to a lesser extent.

    Why am I dealing with an online company at all? It’s not about ammo. I bought out two Walmart’s when they were unloading their ammo cases. Federal 5.56 XM193 LC $30 for 150 and a rebate on top of that. 9mm brass range ammo $4-5 a box for 9mm. I’m sitting on at least 5k rounds of every caliber I shoot. I’m stocking up on PMAGS because I don’t want get caught with my pants down. Crazy Joe gets crazy with that pen or David Chipman gets nominated, well lets just say that that nutjob has an issue about “high-capacity magazines”. Be forewarned that very well could be the next thing that is short supply. Eventually and hopefully the courts will sort it out but while I’m not what you would call a “prepper”, I don’t have time to wait until that possible mess gets sorted out.

    Today it’s ammo, tomorrow the thing that looks like it could be in very short supply is magazines. MAGPUL is also cranking out things 24/7, don’t get caught with your pants down. Do you have enough magazines or in a year or two is everyone going to complaining that PMAGS are $90?
    Do you remember when they were $10?

    You may or may not have ammo to put in them but buy them, magazines are pretty much a soft target for Crazy Joe and his bunch of fools. When the price of ammo stabilizes, load them up.

  19. Wow supply and demand, Econ 101. I found Ruger American rifles with AI magazine features in stock in 6.5 Creedmoor for $449 yesterday. Just checked, the S&B 140gr is listed at $2.74 each. No wonder, the rifle is cheap because their is no affordable ammo. That ammo jetted one of my bolts. But what I find most egregious is the price of primers. On right now the lowest price you can get is Fort Smith small rifle primers for $1700 for a box of 5000. That is 34 cents each for an item like CCI-450 that sold for 4 cents last spring. In other places they are 40 cents each, that is a 1000% mark up. Wonder how the 80% supplies are doing as of the crap in the fan yesterday.

    • That’s a Rip Off on those “repackaged” russian primers ! they sell to every one from Joe Reloader to the boutique reman reloader. They were discussed on a year ago. All American made primers are spoken for – Lake City, Hornady, CCI/Blazer, Win & Remington (vista outdoors) ect ect. They are way behind on back-orders! Like a couple years worth.
      @ Phantom30 – be glad it wasn’t a 338 Lapua ! I was shown one in a Ruger Precision. When I asked but do you have ammo for it – Sure he said and grabbed a box of hornady (20?) marked $108. I passed.

  20. The price of primers is based on the fact that ammo manufacturers need them so they are using them instead of selling them. My reloading buddies constantly complain about the price of primers but when Federal and Hornady are getting hate Emails and calls, their priorities are to use them to make ammo.
    Supply and demand.

    Truth be told, I think a lot of corporations thought this wasn’t going to happen for another 4 years.
    Nobody thought that an election could be fixed but apparently it can and was.
    I’m not saying that Trump was a friend to the 2A but he wasn’t outright attacking it.
    Throw in Covid and it’s the perfect storm.

    • “an election could be fixed but apparently it can and was”

      Hilarious, like Sidney Powell said, no reasonable person would think she was being factual when she stated the election was rigged.

      The kraken has spoken.

  21. I bought out two Walmart’s — I’m sitting on at least 5k rounds of every caliber I shoot.

    So THAT’s where the ammo is going. Thanks.

    • No, that’s where the Walmart ammo went in September of 2019.
      It’s in ammo cases which I also bought. Ammo will keep for decades if properly stored.
      Walmart hasn’t sold ammo (handgun or any popular calibers) since Black Friday of 2019.
      If the store manager is able to sell the ammo at half the price listed on the shelves,
      who am I to say No? There was an election coming up in a year, it was a wise move.
      At least I’m not on trying to rape people.

  22. Why is everyone getting upset over some woman named Virginia thinking her husband is spending to much on ammunition.

  23. Retailers are ripping off consumers as manufacturing prices only increased a fraction do to component prices rising fractionally. People need to stop over purchasing at these ridiculous prices and make the retailers feel the pain before they will see prices creep down some. I am also in the camp of people you bemoan as conspiracists as I do believe production is also being hindered by ATF and the politicians that be as a way to keep a check on us and if you don’t believe they are part of the problem then I have a Bridge in NY renamed Mario Cuomo Bridge to sell you

    • It’s just about the ability of an individual to forecast the future accurately and to recognize that in the forecast-ed future where his/her vulnerabilities might be…and then to act to mitigate them.

      Most of those complaining didn’t guess it right. So, now, they necessarily need to suffer…to teach that lesson…think of it as a learning session.

  24. For people complaining about firearm and ammo shortages….

    Get a grip. You are seeing a preview of what the world will look like when SHTF. Everything will be priced at whatever the seller can get for it. Got a bar of gold bullion? I will sell you a single loaf of bread for it. Or, you can keep looking.

    When shortages occur, no one owes us pricing at, or near, pre-panic conditions.

    • *shoots Sam and eats bread* “Dead you are. Now, what else ya got? Ooo a gold bar!”


      On a serious note though I have to wonder how this shakes out going forward. I suspect that the major dangers come from disparities in reopening, both nationally and internationally. You can logic you way through that in terms of international shipping and investment in logi, and see the issues quite clearly with Suez.

      I mean, how stable is Canada right now? How does that work as the US red-states drag the entire country towards reopening via opening those states and creating envy in blue states? As the US reopens how do the citizens of Canada and the UK react to that?

      I suspect that, at least in the short to medium term, societies are going to be bifurcated badly at the national and international levels. That’s the kind of thing that can breed A LOT of resentment and rage, like panic, is both blind and stupid.

    • Yeah. I’m a prepper you could say but I’ll never get the gold hoarding shit. If it all comes down I don’t give a shit how much gold you wheel to me. If I can’t eat it, drink it, shoot it, or F*** it, it’s worthless. Yeah I went there, because that’s his life is in Africa, and that’s exactly what it’ll be like.

      • Well, when your paper money is worth a sheet of Shit paper, that Gold or silver becomes worth a whole lot more, even if you can’t eat it. And you won’t need much. Old economics lesson, old school prof. The price of Gold has never changed ! The professor used the Colt 45 as an example – “In 1873 the Colt SAA sold for $17.50. The complete kit with a holster and some ammunition could be covered by a $20 gold piece. Criticized for this high price, and by 1865 the revolver was reduced to $14.50. It was a mid 70’s re-issue (at time of statement) that was worth the same oz. of gold.
        If we keep raising the U.S. debt, and China makes a call – our dollar is toast!

        • Interesting to consider that the entirety of the debt could be paid off if hyperinflation (hyper devaluation if you like) took gold to $40-50K an ounce and the government managed to confiscate all the privately held stuff.

          Heck, in straight devalued dollar terms this would even turn a profit for those who confiscated it…


  26. Of course it’s a conspiracy because the satellites are fake and the greys are manipulating the market on behalf of the interdimensional lizard people from beyond the ice wall!

    -Gun range economics/CNBC stock advice.

    • The greys don’t need to manipulate anything except people’s genitalia for their own amusement. Ask me how I know 👽

    • Well I know the satellites are real because I used to have Dish. I can’t confirm the rest, but I’m working on it.

  27. Only idiots or those who are really poor don’t have enough ammo.

    It’s been 3 years since I bought any, and I still have mucho bulletos for any occasion. Been shooting regularly, too.

    God helps those who help themselves, and since I am a religious man, I helped myself by buying Large amounts at good prices whenever possible. The trick to keep them happy, is many, many steel 50 cal boxes with rubber seals.

    What a security professional I know once told me, you never buy unless it’s in a wooden crate. By following his advice over the years, my average price is 44 cents a round.

    If you didn’t plan, i don’t feel sorry for you at all. When things get iffy, and they will, I will have enough… 🙂 🙂

    Too bad, so sad…

    • Keep shitting on other POTG based on age, TIS, or income. It’s really helping the cause and it makes you super popular to boot!

    • Keep in mind that there are always new people just getting into firearms. Us newbies haven’t lived through previous shortages like most of you guys on here. I ended up with a fair amount just because Walmart stopped selling handgun and scary rifle ammo. The day I read that announcement here on TTAG, I drove down to Walmart and stocked up. I also went down to the local Walmart when I read on here that they were dumping their scary rifles at half off. I was too late for that one.

      • Well then, learn from the old guys.

        That’s how life works in actuality, you know.

        Shut your trap. Open the ears. And, incorporate in your mind what the old guys tell you from decades of experience.

        The “else” consequences are on you.

        • There you are again David mucking up the comment section. Your head is so far up your azz, you failed to either read or comprehend the part where I literally stated, “I drove down to Walmart and stocked up.” I did that in 2019, so don’t worry about me. I’m good.

          I realize you’re dying to look down on someone, but once again, read my comment and think about it before you respond. Or, as you say, “Shut your trap. Open the ears.”

  28. strych9 said: “Keep shitting on other POTG based on age, TIS, or income. It’s really helping the cause and it makes you super popular to boot!”

    Thanks for the compliment… 🙂

    However, I bought when not many people, outside of me and some friends, really worried about ammo shortages. We knew that, if the gubment was involved at all, there would eventually be shortages of both guns and ammo, and screw the 2nd amendment.

    There will also eventually be food shortages. I have enough for 18 months. Do you?

    You have been warned…

  29. I think that merely on the basis of his online moniker here, “LastOfTheOldOnes” he simply knows more through experience than most younger shooters do.

    It’s something to consider, i.e., the wisdom of the aged.

    • The “wisdom of age” is brought into question when it’s dispensed with the grace of deer dying from CWD.

      If old people be so smart, so learned, so magnanimous, why are so many of them nothing but abrasive assholes even when they have no reason to be so?

      Must be that high quality old-school edumakayshun all us young’uns missed out on.

      • Wow. A completely loaded question…not posed with the intention of intelligent exchange of knowledge.

        Still, I’ll take a stab.

        Perhaps because they value a lost past the lessons of which are still applicable today?

        • I can get that knowledge from books. I don’t need your condescending attitude to go with the knowledge.

          From a utilitarian perspective you’re arguing yourself into “useless eater” territory faster than a pedo priest.

          But at least you can spot a loaded question, so maybe, just maybe you’re not completely worthless.

          Just damn close.

        • It is simply human nature to presume one “knows it all”.

          Vangloriousness is particularly exhibited by the human male (it’s a testosterone thing).

          “Abrasive” personalities are randomly distributed- no one can claim ownership of them.

          Younger people have access to knowledge- but lack experience.

          Older people have knowledge and experience.

          When humans combine knowledge with experience and pass it along for the benefit of others- that’s called wisdom.

          Wisdom is not affected by demeanor- it only requires prudent reception.

          Prudence, patience, and receptivity are traits commonly lacking in younger people.

          This is how it has always been, but it’s not sacrosanct- it’s a choice we make.

  30. I personally don’t believe the cause is specifically high demand but rather that too many of us are willing to pay gouging prices. If all of us refused and let the overpriced items sit on shelves the stores would have no recourse but to lower them to a reasonable level.

  31. Demand is high, and there are profiteers around. Stores will get a pallet of ammo, and it’s gone within hours. They didn’t used to need a pallet a day to keep their shelves stocked. You won’t see sales or discounts, but chains like Cabela’s, Scheel’s, or Academy are still reasonable at $0.28/round of 9mm. It’s not the $0.16-0.18 it used to be in case quantities, but those stores were rarely under $0.20 before. It’s the gougers who then mark up 2-3x. We saw it last time with people buying out .22 from Walmart at $2/box and reselling it for $10.

  32. “I suspect that the major dangers come from disparities in reopening, both nationally and internationally.”

    Gotta admit that my saucer is overflowing to the point international relations haven’t taken up a minute’s notice.

  33. “It’s something to consider, i.e., the wisdom of the aged.”

    Well, I’m aged, and I get my wisdom from a bottle of quality, well aged single malt.


  34. “If old people be so smart, so learned, so magnanimous, why are so many of them nothing but abrasive assholes even when they have no reason to be so?”

    Because it’s fun, and entertains us?

    • I would hope not.

      If that’s the only reason then at this point your life expectancy is quite short regardless of what lies you tell yourself about your superiority.

      The utility of being a douche just for funzies is about 0.00 and if all goes sideways the cost goes vertical.

  35. There is some Good news – if you check – prices are coming down – Tho it’s Euro (Czech) or russian – I’m finding 9mm @ $26.+ per 50, limit 5, in 2 or three places on the web. (and only $9.95 shipping) So the lowering is coming – Just stay off Gunbroker and other high mark up sites. –

  36. I quit shooting my good ammo so much got some lead molds for what wanted to shoot and got enough supply to last a while and shot my reloads they do pretty good keeps me in practice at least when the prices drop down will start buying but as is Have enough to take care of family and put meat on table

  37. Everyone should have learned from the Sandy Hook scare. Back in 2012. If you’re not buying ammunition every month you’re wrong. Even if you’re not going to the range. There were times I didn’t go to range for months on end. I still bought ammunition every month.

    And some of you were foolish enough to refuse to buy cheap ammunition from Walmart!!!
    Now you’re paying three or four times the price.

  38. Manufacturer costs have had an average increase of 15% which they pass on to distributors, and, carries over to retailers plus a few percent more. The HONEST-to God Truth is this, the manufacturers are selling mostly to their biggest buyers. Those buyers are selling a FRACTION of that ammo to retailers. Now we have those very same retailers AND big buyers selling online at venues like Gunbroker and other sites artificially inflating prices! It’s NOT all supply and demand issues! It’s good ol’ price gouging!

  39. People just don’t seem to learn. When you see ammunition at a fair price, BUY IT! Even if you don’t need it immediately! It will keep if stored properly! I have an SKS that I rarely take to the range. Many years ago I purchased a number of 1000 round cases of 7.62×39 when Turners was selling it off at $129 a case! This past birthday, my kids bought me a Howa 1500 bolt rifle in 7.62×39 and now I’m very well-stocked for the range and for hunting! You have to grab what’s available when you see it and when it’s at a fair price! Don’t hesitate, even if you don’t think you need it right now! YOUR LIFE MAY DEPEND ON IT LATER!

  40. The only good news about the ammo shortage is there has never been a better time to take up archery! The scariest part about president Harris is the red flag laws which are totally unconstitutional and violate our 4th amendment rights. Now your guilty until proven…. “guilty”.

  41. 9, are you OK? You seem unusually harsh today; way harsh. In fact, completely out of character.

    Did someone take over your screen name?

    • No one took over my screen name.

      I’m not sorry that ruthlessly pointing out facts melts some snowflakes who, in this case, happen to erroneously believe that respect isn’t earned but rather handed out at a certain age like the early bird special and that they can insult new gun owners, call that productive and then try to argue by creating a dick measuring contest. Intellectual gold this is not.

      Fact; OP wasn’t exactly OP on messaging. I pointed this out. He returned with a message that basically said “shitting on other POTG is cool because I got mine” and then attempted to bait me into a dick measuring contest like this is fucking middle school. I strenuously contest that point and I’m not going to go out of my way to be nice about it when it should be clear to everyone that if you’re laboring under the delusion that I give a fuck about your feels then you’re working too hard.

      Can’t handle me? The Left’s gonna eat you alive. In fact, they already are. I’ve said that for five fucking years. You wanna argue? Cool beans, present an actual argument and I’ll happily engage in friendly, spirited debate as I have for years. Ya might even show me a thing or two because unlike the people above I don’t actually think I know everything. 0

      OTOH, present an argument that boils down to “I enjoy acting like a shitty battle rapper on Instagram because I think I’m better than other people” and I’m probably going to take you to task for it. Mainly because it’s counter-fucking-productive and divides our own ranks.

      If your out here posting “I’m bettah than the noobz because reasons related to my own smug sense of superiority” then you are the fucking problem and I am more than happy to point that out.

      Other people have pulled this bullshit before and no one was surprised when I took those people to the woodshed, so why is anyone surprised now?

  42. “When you see ammunition at a fair price, BUY IT!”

    No. It is my natural, civil and human right to have things at prices I want to pay….even if suppliers go out of business because they didn’t plan on keeping prices normal in the midst of hoarding and panic.

    The customer is always right.

  43. “No one took over my screen name.”

    Not buying that. strych9 can discern a poke in the ribs. The vicious comments under the screen name are all out of character. strych9 is more nuanced.

    • Thanks for your concern here Sam but I’m not really sure where the surprise part comes in here for you.

      I’d refresh your memory here by noting that I’ve had it out with TDI, Gadsden, IraqVet and half a dozen others.

      Hell, I went after Gadsden in ways that weren’t even fair and did it for like a week after he attacked possum simply for the offense stumbling into a thread between myself and Mr. Flag. Taste of his own medicine and all that, especially since that was right after possum’s dogs died. Was it nice of me? No. Did it make the point? Yeah, took awhile but he eventually figured it out after I beat that horse to a pulp, resurrected it, beat it to death again and ran it through a Cuisinart. Further, TDI and I got into it so badly at one point that people were all surprised that another respectful comment ever passed between us.

      In neither case was the rift permanent.

      It’s not now, nor has it ever been personal from my point of view. If you’re going to talk silly, I’m going to point it out. If your response to that is ad hominem or condescension then I’m going to jab back at you, so put on your big boy pants… or don’t. Whatever.

      The same is true of defending said silly talk, I’m going to point it out. But unlike HRC I don’t see these things as “irredeemable” and so I don’t hold a grudge about them or hang them over people later on. Never have, never will. I don’t put people on blast either unless they’re in the actual thread. It’s uncivilized, like talking shit about someone who just left the table.

      Now, all that said, I have never made any bones about the fact that if you want to go to the level of insults and condescension then I can range from prickly to an outright asshole. In fact, I’ve said this flat out, and done so repeatedly. Nothing on that front has changed and I see no reason why it would.

      If I wanted to troll or just be a dick on a regular basis there’s quite a few people here who wouldn’t be hard to get a rise out of. I don’t do that because not only is it narcissistic as fuck, it’s also counterproductive to the supposed goal here.

      Talking down to nubs in an OP, at this juncture, isn’t just moderately counterproductive, it’s hugely self-defeating and it is so at a critical juncture. Worse, it makes everyone else’s job harder as new people come in and see said comments which play right into the caricature drawn for us. First impressions and whatnot.

      It’s something I’ll call out when I see it normally and now is no different. If someone then decides to turn it into a dick measuring contest because they’re butthurt that they got called out on it, well, the results are as predictable as they have been for years.

  44. Did we magically return to April 2020, or are you running repeats? You might have just barely had a point a year ago, but not now. Try blaming it on the Ever Given next time.

  45. “Now, all that said, I have never made any bones about the fact that if you want to go to the level of insults and condescension then I can range from prickly to an outright asshole.”

    @strych9 knows I don’t do that. So a nasty tirade responding to a joshing poke in the ribs is all out of character. As to the others mentioned, the real @strych9 doesn’t let his muzzle sweep commenters not involved in the dispute. @strych9 and I have disagreed deeply over several things, but 9 never sunk to vicious anger in the course of discussion.

  46. strych9 said: “The point sails directly over your head. Color me fucking shocked.”

    Still sails over my head, and obviously, you shock easily.
    Regardless, I am right and you are not.

    I will rest on my laurels in blissful happiness, surrounded by years of accumulated protective equipment and most likely be the last man standing…. 🙂

    • Holing up in your bunker is a good way to get took out, no matter how much stuff you got.
      I’m old, so I’m smart, and have watched a bunch of cowboy movies. Everytime they hole up for the shoot out they get shot up or burned out and then shot up.
      *Bangiddy bang bang* Di di mau


Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here