“Was Scot Peterson (above), the sheriff’s deputy who didn’t storm into Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in the midst of a mass shooting that claimed the lives of 17 teachers and students, a ‘coward,’ as Donald Trump described him?” Joshua Holland asks at The Nation. Apparently not . . .
A Former SWAT Operator Says the Cop Who Stood Outside Is Another Victim of the Parkland Massacre puts forth a different interpretation.
Before we get to an explanation of how hard maybe even impossible it is for a trained law enforcement officer — like former Broward County Deputy Scot Peterson — to go toe-to-toe on a spree killer murdering high school students let’s think carefully about the person making the case.
That would be “David Chipman (above), a 25-year veteran of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) [who] served on one of its Special Response Teams—the agency’s equivalent of SWAT—and is now a senior policy adviser to former congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords’s campaign to curb gun violence.”
Yes, the Peterson apologist is a former employee of a federal agency that supplied Mexican drug thugs with AR-15s, interviewed by a writer who feels obliged to end his article by revealing “I believe that we should ban military-style weapons with high-capacity magazines that result in greater body counts.”
Here’s Mr. Chipman’s opening salvo:
“We rightfully applaud heroes. People who disregard their own personal safety for another. But it is a rare act. We hope that when the chips are down, we will exercise our duty, but you never know until that day comes. I’d like to say I would have rushed into a building with only a handgun to confront an active shooter armed with a military-style assault rifle, knowing I was outgunned, knowing that I would likely die, but I don’t know.”
And I’d like to say that anyone who becomes a police officer would confront a rifle-toting child killer in the midst of his homicidal fury, whether the cop was armed with a handgun or a rifle or a potato peeler. But I can’t. Because Scot Peterson. And three fellow deputies.
I can say that a police officer armed with “only” a handgun should confront a rifle-toting child killer in the midst of his homicidal fury, whether the cop is armed with a handgun or a rifle or a potato peeler.
To make this personal, if I was the cop who didn’t go in — because of a perfectly normal and understandable fear for my life — you could rightly call me a coward. Otherwise, what does that word mean? And it wouldn’t matter what I did before that moment . . .
By all accounts, Scot Peterson had been a model cop until he became a national disgrace. “His personnel record is filled with commendations,” reported the Sun-Sentinel. “Four years ago, he was named school resource officer of the year. A year ago, a supervisor nominated him for Parkland deputy of the year.” But like most of us, he had never faced a situation like he did on the day that Nikolas Cruz shot 33 of his former classmates, teachers, and coaches with an AR-15.
The criticism Peterson’s received is understandable. He took a risky job. Since the school shooting at Columbine, police officers have been trained to enter a building in such circumstances, even if it might cost them their lives.
But Chipman says that the reality is that, even though they undergo extensive training designed to inoculate them against natural human stress reactions, it’s not uncommon for soldiers to freeze up the first time they experience combat. It’s not a sign of cowardice. In most cases, those same troops perform well—or even heroically—after that first exposure to real-life combat. We can’t expect police officers to behave any differently.
TTAG’s resident war hero Jon Wayne Taylor had the appropriate response to this line of thinking in today’s Question of the Day: when it comes to an active shooter, if trained law enforcement officers paid to protect the general public won’t intervene, who will?
The gun lobby’s heroic-gunslinger fantasy also animates Donald Trump’s repeated calls for arming school teachers. It’s a distraction from the real issue—mass shootings, on and off campus, accounted for fewer than 4 percent of gun murders last year. Still, I asked Chipman: What’s wrong with the NRA’s idea that “good guys with guns” could stop people like Cruz? How realistic is it to expect a teacher, administrator, or other bystander to intervene in such a situation?
“I think that unless you are trained—and you’re trained over and over again, and you practice like you play, which means you’re training in simulated life or death environments—the likelihood of you even firing your gun is small. And then the likelihood that you would actually hit a moving target surrounded by other moving targets—any trained operator knows the fallacy in that. It’s highly unlikely that it would turn out well.”
Common sense tells us that “high unlikely” does not equal impossible — a point TTAG proved in its school shooting simulation.
And over 1m defensive gun uses a year tell us that former ATF SRT member David Chipman is FOS. Not to mention the fact that return fire will, at the very least, distract or delay a mass shooter. Or shooters.
There are different kinds of people. Some people are wired to fight, some to freeze and some to flee. Can those whose natural instinct is to freeze overcome that propensity through sheer force of will? Yes. But don’t get me wrong: I fully understand and appreciate the admonition” judge not lest ye be judged.”
So I’ll just shake my head and sigh at the Broward County Sheriff’s Department for their officers’ lethal lack of intestinal fortitude, and reserve my ire for the intellectual cowardice shown by Mr. Holland, Mr. Chipman and the legions of disarmists plaguing this great nation, promoting a cult of impotence that’s guaranteed to put more defenseless children in the line of fire.
I have the same butterfly in my stomach when President Trump focuses on an individual person like this that I did when Obama did the same.
But no, Peterson’s not a victim. These are the consequences to making the decision that your life was worth more than those of an entire schoolhouse worth of children. There was a voice in the back of his head saying “I will be vilified for this, but I just can’t do it” the entire time he was hiding behind his car in that parking lot, and he made the decision that vilification was better than the risk of death.
I agree it would be better not to make this so personal.
But thanks to Scott Israel and the Dems/MSM, I don’t think we have a choice in the matter.
Do you mean 4 star General Israel?
So their position is the bad guys are unstoppable and we should just accept being killed.
“WOLF!! WOLF!!! BAAAAAAA!!! WOLF!!!”
“Shut up you morons!! The little pig’s in trouble!”
“What trouble has come to our Babe wolf?”
– Babe – (i.e. the greatest kid movie ever)
Yes. The sheep would rather you die than fight a wolf to save their lives. If you die, they will get on with chewing their cudd and continue to call you and your kind a wolf. In this case case Peterson was outed as a sheep in “dog’s clothing”…. “wolves clothing” if you’re a sheep. Now that the flock knows he’s a sheep, the herd will protect him in the only way they can…… “BAAAAAAAAA!!!!! WOLF!!! WOLF!!!!! Peterson’s being attacked by wolves!!! BAAAAA!!!!”
It makes you wonder if these idiots just want more people to die to further their agendas. Any, any chance no matter how small to engage a nutter hell bent on murder is better than doing nothing.
Oh you know they do.
It is like we live in Europe.
Or maybe this simps just want the US to be like Europe.
God forbid. Lots of people have dies to prevent that.
Long live the republic.
This deputy, at the end of his career, became a high school cop. Probably a cushy way to bump up his years and salary before a comfortable retirement. He probably never thought he’d have to do anything more than break up a scuffle. He obviously did not have the mental preparedness to put it all on the line when he was needed most. I feel badly for the guy. He must be disappointed in himself.
I do not.
“School Resource Officer”. Marking time until retirement. F-Troop operator. Scared at a felon who could shoot back. Couldn’t arrest him for bound-book irregularities.
His priorities were his hide, his cushy job, and his pension.
Perhaps the students could vent their anger on him.
Well, he’s still a scumbag who needs to be strung up with piano wire. I’m much more concerned about finding the person who gave the stand down order to the cops. I smell a planned attack abetted by the DNC.
Planned? No. Predictable that something similar would occur sooner or later. The Progs had their oplan ready in a file drawer. They apparently didn’t have a Vegas exploit plan in place.
+ Good Post.
Q: how many POS (D) jerk-off’s look like their preaching at a revival, when they are getting paid by communists to talk to adults?
A: All of them.
That would be “David Chipman and is now a senior policy adviser to former congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords’s campaign to curb gun violence.”
if trained law enforcement officers paid to protect the general public won’t intervene, who will?
Especially in Gun Free Zones.
Remember, cops have no obligation to defend and protect you.
We are so SOL.
Peterson and the other 3 Broward County Deputies are still cowards.
Yes… and the person who gave them the order to stand down is a terrorist.
“By all accounts, Scot Peterson had been a model cop until he became a national disgrace…”
By all accounts General Benedict Arnold was an American patriot and war hero until…well…you know.
If a teacher puts themselves between a shooter and a student, knowing full well they probably won’t survive, my educated guess is they will use their weapon to save themselves and the students.
For the first year or more as a young patrol officer, I often wondered if I would be able to shoot another human being. When the time came, with only a split second to shoot, I did exactly that. It was him or me, and I didn’t even think about. It’s the number 1 human instinct, to survive. Teachers and school administrators have the same instinct, just like the rest of society. I fully believe they will shoot.
A++ on your first paragraph.
Marty gets it.
I can definitely see that many people would be reluctant to charge headlong into a building full of strangers to stop a spree killer armed with a rifle. I cannot see many people being reluctant to try and stop a spree killer armed with a rifle who is coming for HIM or HER.
A little different situation, I’d say.
Marty, in your case, from what you write you were presented with a threat and had to fire or be probably killed yourself.
In the deputy’s case, he had the luxury of choice: he was in no danger and needed to make the decision to enter danger to save others’ lives. He chose not to.
I don’t mean to make light of your experience; but the starting conditions sound very different. Please correct me if I’m wrong about that. And I still think the deputy’s lack.of action is reprehensible.
I agree with you about Peterson, but I was specifically referring to the teachers being able to confront the dirtbag with a weapon.
When we talk about arming teachers, I envision adults, in their assigned classroom, faced with an armed shooter in the room with them. Will some still freeze? I believe so, but I also believe most would engage the shooter in that scenario.
I also believe armed guards should be at each entrance, so some kid with an AR-15 can’t just waltz in.
If (and I stress IF we actually love our children like we profess to, then we would find the money to protect them.
Banning guns is a red herring. With 500+ million in circulation, and very few registries of where they are, how would a ban work? House-to-house searches are absolutely illegal (not even the ACLU or SPLC would say otherwise), and I can’t imagine anyone other than a full-out SWAT team even trying it.
Taking advice with someone from “F-Troop” (ATF) is no better than taking advice from someone from the FBI.
If I had my way, I would disband ALL federal “letter” agencies that have anything to do with “law enforcement” .
Human nature dictates that the person with all of the bragging about what they would do in a school shooting (this (especially) includes “law enforcement”) actually would cower in fear, while the 90 lb. armed teacher would reluctantly, but successfully “take out” the shooter. Being “forced” into a situation also forces one to act. There are many examples of persons, who one would normally think, would not be capable of acting in an extremely high-stress situation, but DO come out on top–stopping the threat, and saving lives.
All one has to do is look at the Medal of Honor recipients, who are almost always mild-mannered, initially reluctant to act, but DO act, and perform feats who most would think are normally beyond their capacity and capabilities–TRUE bravery in the heat of battle. The same applies to those civilians who act during school shootings.
Human nature has a habit of propelling (actually forcing) the normal, average person into a true “hero” and life saver, while showing the true nature (cowardly behavior) of those we assign to protect us. A good example of our “protectors” cowering in fear is the deputies who FAILED TO ACT despite having all of the equipment necessary and the preferential laws on their side (that protect them from lawsuits and liability).
TRUE heroes ACT, while our “protectors” (failed to) REACT.
I must partially disagree with the author of this article when he stated that people must be “trained” to take out a mass shooter. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ordinary people thrust into a difficult situation such as this actually do better than those who are “trained”/
That is the big difference….Scot Peterson was outside and out of the line of fire.
An armed teacher in the line of fire will likely shoot because they have no other option. If they have frequently practiced marksmanship and self-defense with a firearm, they’ll have the upper hand.
ATF,Gabby and coward cops…I’m usually not a conspiracy crazy but DAMN! It’s revealed the po-leece visited/intervened with the Cruz punk some 45 times. But it’s all AR’s and the NRA😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
IF what Laura Ingraham reported last night was true and the Broward County deputies were ordered to stand down that reinforces my tinfoil hat theory that Peterson took one for the team and is being willingly used as a scapegoat by the sheriff. I’d like to see how his retirement pension has grown a year from now, I’m betting he got some very nice investment “tips”.
No it’s as simple as SWAT got a (state-sanctioned )murder boner and wanted the glory. And the cowards wanted an excuse not to go in, so they got one. Akkhams razor folks, I love conspiracies too folks but not everything is a conspiracy even though you could make the argument…
“By all accounts, Scot Peterson had been a model cop until he became a national disgrace. “His personnel record is filled with commendations,” reported the Sun-Sentinel. “Four years ago, he was named school resource officer of the year. A year ago, a supervisor nominated him for Parkland deputy of the year.” But like most of us, he had never faced a situation like he did on the day that Nikolas Cruz shot 33 of his former classmates, teachers, and coaches with an AR-15.”
Uh, by all accounts, this person is a picture perfect example of our politically correct and progressive rewards system failing spectacularly and predictably. Once upon a time, awards and accolades were reserved for extraordinary behavior and remarkable actions. But that is no longer the case. Now, thanks to progressives, the job market and education system dole out rewards for what once was “satisfactory” behavior (ie. what used to get you a “C” in class now gets you an “A”).
Anyone brought up with this unethical progressive rewards system mistakenly believes they are special, unique, and due a reward just for showing up to school / work.
So WHY, dear progressives, are you surprised this untrained and untested individual would ultimately fail when they were never properly vetted for the post and potential hazards they were assigned? After all, they were rewarded many times just for coming to work. Surely the rewards would keep coming for the minimal amount of effort taken for a mass shooting.
Woops, guess not.
Of course I was not there, but you would think that the SRO would know his way around the school and with a modicum of wits about him, have been able to come in behind the shooter and yes, shoot him in the back. God knows I would not “asked” him to lay down his weapon and submit to arrest after he had already killed people. Shooting this nut in the back, or preferably back of the head, would have been completely rational and by no means cowardly. Meanwhile, in my limited circumstance, at least one HS teacher when our daughter was in HS had been in Iraq. If he had been allowed to carry and the same thing had happened, this would not have been his first situation. I strongly suspect that is the case with many HS teachers who were vets or even former LEO’s. And as others have said, in the building knowing the lunatic was heading for your classroom would make for an entirely different perspective. Methinks that Broward County is doing everything it can to avoid being bankrupted by the dozens of lawsuits that will soon be filed.
The driver of the taxi (Uber or Lyft) picked him up with a backpack and a full and a full sized AR-15. First, he was not supposed to and second, why didn’t he call in about it when he was dropped off?
He saw a student that was leaving school early and told him to get lost or else – why didn’t the student call police?
He loaded a mag or two out front of the school, why didn’t someone see him then or when he came into the school? Our high school has roaming aides that seem to see everything unless the kids are really slick.
Why didn’t the school officer confront him? Why didn’t the other 3 officers confront him – even if they did not have ARs themselves, they had overwhelming numbers and someone should have got a shot into him.
This is a royal flustercuck – it almost seems that they were ordered to stand down until he did his damage and made a name for himself(and caused some of the public to turn on guns).
This stinks worse than the Las Vegas shootings – with only 1 shooter.
How would a “high capacity magazine” ban help? He shot 31 people over the course of 6 minutes. If reloading took 30 seconds, and he fired a shot every 5 seconds, he could have used 5 round magazines and done as much damage. Keep in mind, those times are really slow. In Newtown, the shooter dumped partial magazines in the hallway so he could go into a classroom with a fresh magazine. Without opposition, a trapdoor rifle reloads fast enough.
I try to like Law Enforcement officers, I really do. Two stories, my brother in law rented a house, the male renter was Whooping up on her, she made it over to my B in laws place, woke him up, dialed 9–1-1, cops show up, spouse says he’s armed with a bow, cops are taking extra precaution, brother in law is getting tired of the delay( he has to go to work in the morning), so he says “fuck this shit” kicks in the door and takes the bow away from the guy. Then the cops all rush in and subdue the perpetrator.. . My son is a conservation officer, woman in a cabin screaming for help, he kicks in the door and disarms the DV .He gets pulled in by his Superior and reprimanded for not following protocol. “What was I supposed to do dad? She was screaming for help.” It’s Coward County not Broward. Peterson is was and always will be a puss
I can’t read a bunch of mumbo-jumbo from some anti-gun knob who works for Giffords. Don’t care what he says because I disagree.
When 400,000 die each year from tobacco and almost the same amount from medical mistakes, but they focus on the relatively small percentage of the people killed with long guns, they lose my interest instantly.
Here’s what I have to say to them: STFU FO&D
I will call them like I see them.
He is a coward.
I would not have hidden like he did. How do I know? I’ve proven myself on several different battlefields. I’ve broken cover to drag comrades out of the line of fire (got the AK bullet that scraped under my armor scar to prove it). An RGD bounced off my helmet- dud impact detonator. saved me another time.
He did not break cover to help others.
He is shit.
Never compare this shit to an American again.
BATF, weren’t they the ones who put on a taxpayer funded White supremacist rally out of their Oklahoma City field office?
Yeah, you can take their word as gospel…
Well I guess now we know who SWATMAN is over at the comment section of TFB
Chipman is being disingenuous, meaning he’s a liar. Peterson had no way of knowing what sort weapon was involved, never having eyes on the shooter, and has said as much. I guess it’s kind of to be expected of an ATF shitbird.
He had a job, and when called he coward. Fuck that guy, he should be charged w criminal negligence
An unarmed coach uses his body to shield his charges from gunfire while an armed and trained deputy waits outside behind cover. There are some grenades I don’t only expect our law enforcement to jump on but require them to.
why are we paying them if not? To hassle us over seatbelts and blinker bulbs!?
A Few Points:
The ATF isn’t full of anti-gun bureaucrats, is it? (SARC)
The Police are under ABSOLUTELY ZERO obligation to protect you.
“TO SERVE AND PROTECT” begs the question as to whom?
This shooting took place inside a school, lots of classrooms, corridors with angles etc. Yes, a person with a handgun is at a disadvantage versus a rifle but mainly in open territory. A school is not a wide open space.
We have seen time and time again that these ‘spree’ shooters are stopped when confronted by an armed responder.
No one would expect a cop to charge headlong into a machine gun nest, this Parkland mass murder was far from that.
The amount of spinning going on is unbelievable, these idiots would try to argue that black was white if it fits their narrative.
Cowards apologizing for cowards who refused to stop other cowards.
This killer was not a military commando in a soldier’s kit engaging in combat. He was a shithead who went for the easiest, softest target he could find with a civilian rifle (and no body armor). When confronted by police, he surrendered. Because these guys almost never shoot it out with police, which is a big part of the reason why school-shooter protocol is to immediately find and engage the murderer.
The only people defending him is his lawyer, probably his family, politicians with an axe to grind and perhaps some who project their own feelings onto him.
Comment from another site (can’t remember which one . . .). I’ve suspected that there was or is a protocol in the Sheriff’s office that directed officers to stay outside. But, faced with reality, this is no justification for Peterson’s not violating policy (if it existed) and going to stop the killing.
“I used to work for Palm Beach County Sheriff and I noticed many first line supervisors (especially those from NY and NJ) were scared to make tactical decisions. Their first response was to contain and then call SWAT to handle the situation. It may come out that the first responders were told to “hold what you have” by their sergeants and lieutenants.”
So because car analogies are fun, I’m pretty sure if Johnny or Jane Run-of-the-Mill were placed into Michael Schumacher’s Ferrari F1 car (or insert F1 driver of your choice) and Michael were placed in a Toyota Corolla, Michael would still win the race, 98% of the time. Sure he’d have to work harder to win, but he’d still win.
Equipment (not >) than skill/training/motivation
The problem with the gun community is it is a semi closed circle of people. This is not 1900 when our country was a mostly rural society. Back them you could shoot your firearm without having to let your neighborhood know what you were doing.
Today’s world is very different. Most new shooters need to pay at a range to fire their brand new gun. New or old its new to them. I sent my daughter to gun classes and I’ve attended gun classes. My money was well spent. In Utah you don’t need to to be trained to carry a gun in schools. Adult students don’t need training and teachers don’t need training. The FASTER program is not in Utah.
No school shooting there as far as I know.
Kentucky is starting to vote too allow teachers to carry guns in schools. If twenty states let teachers carry guns, will the hundreds of thousands of teachers be going to the 2000 or so (just my guess) total number of ranges in the USA for training????
I don’t think so.
How about the millions of teachers if at least 45 states vote to allow teachers to carry guns???
Assuming at least the Free States start to allow teachers to carry, the number of formally trained teachers will be very low for a long time to come. The only way to address the training issue for states is to come up with almost a “World War 2 industrial training” type solution.
I think FASTER has produced about 2000 trained teachers in the lass 5 years. Someone can tell the real numbers if they know.