I was picking up my daughter from her elementary school on a day like any other. We decided, as we often do, to hang out there instead of going straight home so she and her younger sister could play on the playground with some of their friends.
About 15 minutes into it there was an announcement over the PA that none of the adults heard quite clearly enough to make out, but it sounded urgent. A parent poked around the corner, “Hey, I think we’re supposed to go inside.” This wasn’t enough to get anyone moving, but then a police officer arrived with a clear sense of urgency.
“Everybody inside the school, NOW!”
He didn’t explain what was happening other than there was “a dangerous situation nearby that may be heading in our direction.” We held open a side entrance and hustled everyone in while doing our best to make sure everyone who was on the playground was accounted for. The cop yelled at a guy who was taking his sweet time moseying in.
The degree to which the officer was taking the situation seriously was very apparent. Serious and urgent. He needed to witness — in his periphery, because he was scanning the parking lot and general area hard — everyone going inside and locking the door before he was willing to take off and search the perimeter, and he had precisely zero interest in wasting time.
I had assigned my girls to stay with a friend and her mom as they went to the library where they were locking everyone down. When the outdoors crew was all inside I caught up.
We shuffled my girls, some other kids, and some of their parents into a little office inside of the library. It has only one door, which can be locked on the inside, and no windows other than a small one in the door. They hung out in there with the lights out.
At this point I had already lamented, like a hundred times over, the fact that my carry gun was in the center console of my car. Can’t carry it on school grounds, you see. Higher education institutions in Texas, yes. Other schools or educational institutions, no.
So I took stock of my surroundings. Great. The large library has four different entrances from the hallways. Each on a different wall. It’s in the center of the school, with hallway wrapping around all of it. Great.
Each set of double doors has two windows. No blinds. Great. The doors do lock but not particularly seriously. Fort Knox it ain’t. It’ll have to do, of course, and we locked all of the doors.
My little Microtech UTX-70 is super cool and totally handy, but an offensive weapon it really isn’t. Not against someone who bursts through the door shooting.
And, at this time (we’re about two minutes into locking the library down), I had been quietly informed by a teacher with a face more scared than I’ve seen perhaps ever that we were in there due to an MWAG 9-1-1 call. That is, a “man with a gun.”
Possibly just a man, but possibly some men or high school-age guys with rifles directly across the street from the school, and the SWAT team was arriving. A very good SWAT team, by the way. One that I’ve actually knocked a door down with. But none of this was of particular comfort as I found myself in a large library with about 60 people. Unarmed.
But I was not just unarmed, I was disarmed. Which had me really angry. Like, pissed off.
All these people, literally scared for their lives. Not just nervous or worried, mind you, but like completely, legitimately afraid they may die in gunfire while huddled together on the floor of a library with their children. Nobody had cover. Few had concealment.
With the exception of my girls and the folks with them in that little office, everyone else — about 50-or-so people, a little over half of them grade school children and the rest parents and teachers — was a sitting duck. They were on the floor, in the middle of the large room, in positions that would make it difficult to quickly get the F’ out of there. “Un-ass the AO,” if you will.
I had long-since selected one of the extremely solid, hardwood children’s stools as my primary weapon. I sat my bum down on it to the side of the only doors that offered a place to be hidden from view to anyone coming through them. Which were also the doors closest to the office in which my kids were. Which was good, because I believe it was my best tactical choice, but I don’t think I could have made that choice if it put me too far from my girls.
So I sat there, right hand gripped low around a leg of the stool. Ready. On the balls of my feet and ready to jump up and swing that f’er. Smiling at the few people who didn’t have a thousand-yard stare, trying to look entirely relaxed. The only person not sitting on the floor.
My plan was simple. Not that there were many options. That stool was my club. Disarm with it. Maybe cause some damage. Either keep going or ice pick a mother f****r in the base of the skull with my knife.
That is, if he/they came through my doors. If it was another door, plan B was dash out my door as fast as possible, circle around the hallway to their door, and get the jump on him from behind. That’s the best I had.
And at this point I loved my anger. I was so happy that I was so angry. Everything I had in me amplified by the image of my carry gun locked in the car was going to be focused through that stool and into whatever idiot threatened my girls, my neighbors, this school full of good people. Many of whom have become good friends to my wife, my kids, and me.
Speaking of which, while this is happening my wife was in the hospital. She had come down, suddenly, with a freak infection four or five days prior and was still stuck in the hospital on IV antibiotics and such. She had almost died that first evening while in the ER.
I chose not to tell her. No text and certainly no phone call as everyone was attempting to remain silent while on lockdown. Worrying over a situation entirely out of her control just didn’t seem like something she needed.
So I’m angry for that, too. We were supposed to be on our way to the hospital to see her. Robert had visited her earlier and read her some chapters from his first novel (which is really good, by the way). Oh, man, was he going to be pissed when I told him this story.
Finally, after about 45 minutes, we got word that the situation was under control. SWAT had taken suspects into custody without incident. I mean, other than the incident. I let go of my trusty stool, relieved, but not a whole lot less angry.
Turned out it was high school or middle school kids with airsoft guns. Thankfully they didn’t get shot. No real blame to go around other than some kids not thinking about how it looks to be playing with realistic airsoft guns around their house while the grade school across the street was letting out. Not long after an actual school shooting had been playing out in the news. Whoever called it in made the right choice. The SWAT team obviously exercised some discretion. It was taken seriously and everyone acted quickly.
I found some holes in the school’s lockdown process and choices. The principal was very receptive and we may work on hardening the place a little bit with things as simple as blinds for the windows, better locks or barricades, and different locations in which to lock people down.
Additionally, in Texas one can carry concealed on school property with written authorization from the school. Which can come from the principal or district. This is in the works. It isn’t safe to lock my gun in the car, as thefts happen. It isn’t safe to herd a bunch of people into the middle of a room, defenseless. I’d prefer not to experience that again. At least not the defenseless part.
One word: Fire extinguisher.
Take a breath Jeremy and calm down. Then edit your article.
And while s/he’s at it, s/he needs to learn about rights and duties. No policeman has the right to force him/her to go ANYWHERE he does not wish to go( Into the school, for instance), and s/he had a duty to question those unlawful orders. S/he should have just politely told the policeman “no thanks”, and gotten into the mentioned vehicle with the kids, and left the grounds.
Then s/he would not have had to cower in fear with a stool for hours, and perhaps bean the janitor(by ‘mistake’ naturally!) when he comes to inform that it was just some kids with toys. But better “safe than sorry” right(not counting the janitor’s concussion, OFC)?
But instead, sheep always prefer to do as they are told. That’s what makes them sheep.
+1000. This.
And…
“No real blame to go around other than some kids not thinking about how it looks to be playing with realistic airsoft guns around their house while the grade school across the street was letting out.”
Where the fuck are they supposed to play airsoft? More and more, I’m watching schools go on lockdowns from ever increasing radii of “threat.” It’s ridiculous bullshit designed to terrorize the sheep and ultimately control them. Stupid fucking sheep and evil shepherds. Yes, looking at you fear mongering “sheep dogs” too.
And if someone starts shooting while you’re out there in the open? What if you drive straight into gunfire? Keep in mind, the threat was OUTSIDE the school, possibly moving toward it.
The tactical choice here isn’t as simple as you’d like to make it.
What is simple, on the other hand, is realizing that everyone in that situation, whether they chose to head for the hills or hunker down in the school, was disarmed and defenseless under threat of law. That’s what Jeremy is angry about. We all should be.
Ing: In that case, at least you’ll have the firearm from your vehicle, plus a hot engine under your foot. With those two things(plus some speed, surprise, and violence of action) on your side, you’ll stand a better than even chance of coming out on top, and maybe saving a flock of sheep besides.
OTOH, get herded into a classroom and locked in with a stool to wait for your ‘Sheppards’ to give you the official okey dokey. The choice of which way to go belongs to each one of us. Men tend to choose the first option. Sheep like the second. There’s no accounting for taste…
In the presence of a deadly threat, whether known or unknown, the first reaction should be to run. The second is to hide. And the third and final response is to fight it.
Looks like Jeremy skipped the obvious first step jumping straight to the second, then complaining about the third.
Reading between the narrated lines, I think Jeremy is just pissed he couldn’t be shiny knight hero. Instead he hid behind a stool trying to project the “confident male.”
I’ve been in lockdowns ordered by the cops, and the first rule I learned is that a lockdown usually means nobody is in control, and the lockdown is more to clear out the playing field then to protect the citizens.
The first rule when the SHTF is to GOOD (get out of Dodge). And that goes triple when others are counting on you. I’d have to mark this one as a Fail.
My first thought would be: “I’m outta here”. You’re probably safer running in any direction AWAY from the building. If it’s a crazy MWAG, he will want you to be a sitting duck, like a 2 year old playing hide-and-seek, covering only his eyes.
There was no way for me to know from where the threat was coming. At the time it did seem like the safest course of action was going inside the locked building that was already being surrounded by police. Exiting what was on the way to becoming a fairly secure area into the unknown did not strike me as a good idea. Afterwards I learned where the incident happened and my car was parked on the street in front of the neighboring house. Had I gone for my car I would have put myself and my kids in imminent danger, still unarmed, in the line of fire, etc etc were it a real incident.
I appreciate y’all Monday morning quarterbacking this to death and you can fantasize all you want, but there are a million things at play and decisions made and factors and circumstances and things seen and geographical considerations that simply can’t make it into a short editorial. Going into the school was the correct decision.
I don’t recall seeing a fire extinguisher in the library. I looked around and chose a stool as the best thing available. Fire extinguishers are in the hall behind the break-in-case-of-emergency glass but I wasn’t yet on that track while en route to the library.
I also doubt I would have broken the glass anyway. Recognizing we were in a locked building with a growing perimeter of police I expected warning (i.e. gunshots) before a threat breached the building. The teacher who whispered what was up to me was not a confirmed source to me as we were together the whole time and I couldn’t see how she would have acquired that information credibly. Breaking furniture and whatever else wasn’t going to happen unless the police failed or I had valid confirmation of an imminent threat. Sorry, but this all went through my mind there was a clear limit to the lengths to which I was willing to go with unconfirmed rumor of a threat. Yes, it’s due to social perception and everything that goes with being a member of a community. I was not going to pile furniture in front of the doors, break shit, paint the windows, etc with the information I had. A MWAG phone call is not always a man with a gun and an actual man with a gun often doesn’t intend to hurt anyone. We’ve all seen videos and read articles of open carriers being the subject of MWAG calls. I prepared to the level I felt was appropriate. I’m happy with my choices given all the information I had at the time.
And if you think I would have preferred if this situation played out where I was armed and there actually was a shooter, you’re sick in the head.
Oh Jeremy, there’s no win. This here is the comments section of TTAG. No matter what you do, we will find fault with it. No matter what you say, it will be wrong to some. Roll with it, and wear your body armor next time you write about decisions you make.
Despite all the rhetoric flying around here, In my classes I really only urge four things, to cover any and all possibilities and scenarios. It’s the old S.T.O.P., mnemonic. Stop. Think. Observe. Plan.
No matter what might or might not be occurring, no matter where it might be at, those four things are all lifesavers. In this case, it is patently obvious that ignoring the false alarm would have been the correct action, since in reality it turned out to be nothing at all. 95% of the time, this the case.
Or is there someone out there that’s willing to say that not thinking, not observing, and not planning are superior strategies? If so, I’ll just say that in this case, some rational, non-panicked observation would have likely led to the discovery that this was a big mountain made of a tiny molehill. And so ignoring the non-threat would have been much preferable to an hour of fear and perhaps a beaned janitor(or whoever else came to let the frightened sheep out).
But we each must make our own choices for ourselves. If not ready to trust oneself and one’s own observations, then running or hiding makes a lot more sense. But in that case, armed or not makes very little difference. If one is not ready to trust oneself, then that one should not be carrying a piece in the first place. If one isn’t competent to take basic observations while NOT being shot at, then seldom indeed would that one get any MORE competent under the stress of combat.
How about doing your due diligence nimrod.
In Texas you can conceal carry on the school grounds, just not in the buildings or a sporting event on the school grounds. This includes elementary schools.
I’m well aware of the TX law:
“PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private”
“(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.”
Sometimes that means I can carry on the school grounds, sometimes it means I cannot. This time was the latter.
Agreed. Hell of a lot better option than a wooden stool.
Discharge extinguisher then commence beating.
Better yet would be to smash the stool and take only one leg. Or two, if the person in question has practiced enough to be able to use both hands at once(tanbos or escrima sticks,
IOWs).
My second Sensei always used to get on me for forgetting my off hand(the one without a weapon in it). He’d yell: “What’s that other hand, CRIPPLED!”?
OFC, better still would’ve been to have just ignored the cop and left in the first place. But no sheep would ever think that way. That would require thinking instead of just blind obedience.
I’ve been lucky in that all of my various instructors in various disciplines have always taught me to think, rather than just obey. Except for a few college Professors, and I didn’t stay in their classes for long.
In this case the better idea would be to commence stabbing.
What happened to the cans of soup,,, any preferred brand?
I wonder why he didn’t just take his girls and go to his car? Nobody can make you stay in a school locked up. I’d rather be by my firearm. But people today are weak like the guy who wrote this.
The writer he have no pistola, and the police officer outside, he have a pistola, so the writer he no can leave even though he want to.
By all means try walking past an officer trying to secure a bunch of people while half-expecting to get shot at. Brilliant plan. You’re Albert Einstein reincarnated.
Some choose liberty or death. I’ve been in situations many times and risked death or serious injury to remain free. Some might think it stupid but those who cherish liberty know the risks and choose freedom.
There’s nothing wrong with choosing to comply but it is wrong to ridicule those who choose liberty and integrity.
Did you even read the item? The author clearly went willingly, and says so right here on this page, again and again. Some remedial reading classes might be able to help you out with that disability. Good Luck.
Refuse to comply and walk away. The system is making it more and more difficult to do so these days. It ain’t going to be pretty for free people in just a few short years.
With your having been in these situations “many” times, share with us one or two of them where you challenged death to remain free.
I typed out two examples but then said… Nope. Fuck him. It serves no useful purpose.
Ummm, that’s two words.
One of the primary reasons that we homeschool: every teacher and administrator is armed.
And, at the high school level at our home, so were the students… after numerous field trips to the shooting range, physics projects on ballistic energy comparisons, and debate practice on 9mm vs 300BLK for in-home defense.
THANK YOU!
Ditto and amen to that.
Unarmed in a school …because laws. Because the stupid never stops.
Jeremy S , thank God it ended the way it did. My thoughts and prayers go out to you & yours.
+1
Allowed to carry and able to carry are two very different things.
This
You’re right, of course. But I do tend to follow the law. There are some “no gun” things where the penalty is a non-criminal fine sort of offense or simply being kicked out. That’s a different animal from violating 51% laws and weapons in schools laws. I wish I ignored that stuff, but it isn’t in my nature. Maybe if I were single without kids, but as I stand today I’m not committing felonies on the reg.
Having a family is the best reason to carry all the time. Being able to tell a police officer that, “I only want to protect my family” in a calm and professional manner is a major calming influence. Plus, I single guy with a concealed weapon raises more eyebrows than a (married) man with children with a concealed weapon.
I fully understand not wanting the stress of (possibly) being prosecuted with a felony charge, but a dad who is a felon because he does the right thing instead of the legal thing is better than no dad at all. Sometimes you have to change your nature in order to fully protect your family.
It is also the best reason to not break the law, get thrown in jail and/or prison, and not be able to provide for said family.
You screwed either way.
Matt,
If given the choice of “no family” vs ” not being able to provide for my wife and kids” I’d choose the latter every day. Otherwise id have to live with the guilt that i could have stopped my family from being murdered but chose a course of inaction out of fear for the consequences.
You are not screwed either way. Notice the officer never asked Jeremy if he was armed. It didnt matter to the officer if Jeremy was armed or not because he knew what Jeremy’s intentions were without even talking to him. You ignore the third option that the officer would actually appreciate that Jeremy is armed and task him with securing the entrance to the library had an actual shooting ensued. Anyone (including police) in a firefight/gunfight does not care who is armed. They only care that they are on his side.
Jeremy S.,
I see three simple ways to greatly improve your odds of survival in that scenario:
(1) Immediately tell everyone to turn their cell phones OFF. Not muted, OFF. If they are hiding in a dark room from a spree killer just outside the door and hoping to avoid getting his/her attention, you do NOT want cell phones ringing or their displays lighting up like Christmas trees. (Muting a cell phone does not keep the display dark as far as I know.)
(2) Immediately order able-bodied people to pile-up obstacles (e.g. chairs, stools, desks, television stands, books, etc.) in front of the doors and then to stage themselves on both sides of the door with improvised melee weapons, such as the stool that you were holding. Note that fire extinguishers are even better than stools as you could either bludgeon an attacker with the fire extinguisher or spray chemicals into an attacker’s eyes and lungs.
(3) Instruct everyone else (who isn’t staged on both sides of the door with improvised melee weapons) to be ON THEIR FEET, SPREAD OUT, AND READY TO SCATTER if the attacker enters the room. The very last thing you want to present to an attacker is a dense crowd of people sitting down on the floor.
These three preparations, actions, ready responses are quite simple. And yet they seriously improve everyone’s odds of survival. Study them. Practice them. Ask your children’s school to study them and practice them as well.
Of course having a personal defense firearm is far better. Nevertheless, we should always strive to use available options to maximum effect.
I’ve never understood why a spree-killer is supposed to ignore all the cars in the parking lot and be tricked into thinking the school is empty or whatever, by shutting doors & turning off the lights.
Strong barricades, bullet-proof separation, and lethal response are the only factors that matter at all in that situation. The first two are difficult or expensive, the third is generally free & easy if people could just look past their stupid anti-gun cooties and make a rational decision.
Because everyone inside is hiding their eyes knowing the killer can’t see them. (sarc)
Stupid administrators.
barnbwt,
I don’t think the locked doors and dark classrooms are supposed to trick a spree-killer into thinking that the school is empty. Rather, I think it causes doubt (which then causes hesitation) with a spree-killer. And that doubt takes two forms:
(1) Any given classroom could actually be empty because the students left the classroom for gym, music, art, etc.
(2) Even if a given classroom is not empty, there might only be a handful of people inside.
In either case a spree-killer is forced to decide if he/she wants to chew up time breaching a door that may have no one or only a few people inside. Since the spree-killer’s goal is maximum body count, he/she would not want to waste his/her limited time on a room with very few people inside. If a spree-killer only stops for six seconds to try and peer into every room and listen, checking 10 classrooms just ate up a minute. And that could save lives.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying this is the be-all, end-all. I am simply explaining the rationale as I understand it.
Uncommon — I was not prepared to do that without confirmation of a threat. This was more serious than hearing your neighbor’s car alarm again and assuming it was the wind again, but it had not risen to the level I needed to do the things you mentioned. I had decided who to ask to move which furniture and to tell the people in the middle of the room to stage next to exits, etc, but that time didn’t come. I’m sure some other people who have trained these situations may have taken those steps but I was not yet ready to do so.
Jeremy,
Fair enough.
This story needs to be pressed by every news outlet in your local area at a minimum, nationally by “progressives”.
What do we all have in common with our anti-gun humans? We love our families. Show them we care and we want to save them. Maybe it’ll change the tide slightly.
If the doors open internally from the hall wedge shaped door stops are simple, effective and dirt cheap.
As a 12 year old remember walking to the town dump to shoot rats with a couple of friends carrying 22LR rifles. Local city cop stopped us and reminded us not to shoot it at street lights after we told him where we were going. Why 50 years ago nobody was pissing their pants at the sight of a gun like they do now. Guns are no more dangerous than they were 50 years ago.
Yes, this story is really sad. Literally nothing happened and nobody was in danger, but many people panicked. Meanwhile the (only?) good guy was following the dumb-ass rules to keep him disarmed.
“We just have to be repetitive about this . . .We need to really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nM0asnCXD0
Yeah I simply can’t blame the person or people who called it in considering a school shooting had just been playing out in the news and these [idiot] kids were armed and wearing some tactical gear and were directly across the street from the entrance to the school. Plus the timing of when it was called in was the busiest time of day at the school. I don’t know what the kids’ behavior was like or how carefully the caller(s) watched them before making their decision, but there were factors here that are definitely understandable.
Because 50 years ago half the world just finished trying to kill the other half and it looked like that it may just start up again at any moment. So low percentage B.S. like school shootings (still your chances are very low) were the least of anyones concerns.
40 years ago in Omaha, Ne we used to walk thru the neighbor hood to the railroad tracks and walk out to the country with our 22’s or 410’s (depending on what we were hunting), the cops used to stops us and ask us if we seen anything because he planned on going later, then he said have a nice day or good luck depending on what way we were going, if kids did that today they would have a gun drawn on them and possibly shot. We also used to keep our shotguns in the car to go hunting after school and the teachers knew we did, we would occasionally show them our guns after school because they wanted to see what we had, and yes this was on school property.
Unfortunately, there’s far more ignorance and less common sense nowadays. Witness the rise of the libtards and the ideologies feeding them. Some of them are too stupid to boil water properly, yet they know how to eat. Sad.
“Smiling at the few people who didn’t have a thousand-yard stare, trying to look entirely relaxed. The only person not sitting on the floor.”
…and unable to “Get off the X” if the shit got real.
A real Fail-O-Rama, right there…
Just a suggestion. If you carry a backpack or sling bag, consider a ballistic insert. There many manufactures and sellers out there with proven and competitive prices. At a minimum, level IIIa, soft panel, will stop all pistol calibers, cost around $100 depending on size, but usually have a 5 year warranty. Level III and IV will stop rifle rounds, but steel is heavy, ceramics are light and thicker, but fragile, the light composite/hybrids are significantly more expensive. You have options based on your level of peace of mind, especially in GFZs. Please check your state laws regarding body armor.
This… even Chief Daisuke Aramaki (fictional character, old man) carried a ballistic brief case. When he put it between him and his car door, its secondary use was pretty apparent. The man was smart enough to bring a shield with him in a country where weapons aren’t easily acquired.
Polyethylene Rifle Plates are the lightest stuff right now. If they are the plates I’m thinking of, they can be brought under 2lbs and actually float. Level three protection, but around $400 per plate, not including the king’s due. (taxes).
Tbh, I would opt for either a soft armor setup in a brief case, or invest in some Polyethylene. If I ever get a blue collar job, I’m investing in one. A case draws a lot less hassle and suspicion than a backpack and it can be held up as a shield, esp if you add in a handle inside. Its got a utility use, and I don’t know of any place you can’t bring it. Could even insert a concealable sheet metal sword on one of the sides, keep the handle inside the case.
@Arc. Those poly plates may stop most handgun cartridges, but pretty sure even a couple of hundred yards out you would be very dead if that it what you rely on to stop high powered rifle cartridges. Unlikely that those poly plates even stop 7.62 Tok or 5.7 FNH
The plates are rated to stop level three threats, but don’t stop hard hitting AP rounds.
Yes, they do stop common rifle bullets. You can check your favorite reviewers plate test if you want…
They also go by UHMWPE or Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (Fancy, I know)
@ARC, Hollow point vs Poly armor, 200 yards Watch this >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy4CN5pWOEU
Glad it all worked for everyone. I don’t know what State this happened in, which would be nice to know.
My property (30acres) adjoins a K-12 school in MS. The house itself is about 1/4 mile from the school property & surrounded by thick woods. Due to MS law, I can ( and do ) shoot and hunt on my property regularly, and have never been visited by LEO. Just need to be a little careful of which direction I shoot. Gunfire here is very common and nobody pays any attention to it.
This happened in Texas.
Missed that in OP. Thanks.
This is why I advocate all parents home school. Anyone who can read and think can do it. And I believe my strong recommendations over time are why Robert Farago began to do it. As Chip said all the staff at your home school can be armed. Even better, you can teach your children and not have to counteract the leftist idealogies they are exposed to in public schools. Additionally, if there isn’t a metal detector at the school…I don’t think any jury in the Republic of Texas would convict if you defended yourself and saved lives in a school. Even in Austin!
Even if a jury would convict, I would spend two years in prison over a guaranteed dead child every time.
Break the rules. Problem solved.
OM F’n G, seriously, people need to calm down and relax. Nobody goes running and screaming in a panic when the school bus pulls into the school’s driveway but you a more likely to be run over by the bus than be shot by anyone(crazy or not). What the hell is wrong with you people?
The question should be : ‘Why did local authorities, to include police and school admins go into a doomsday spiral over kids with toys?’
Progs never ask the right questions. But they are quick with the snark.
I wouldn’t say they ever get snarky. To my mind, snarky means something akin to sarcastic, like a comeback with some form of intelligence behind it. The progtards are more like; quick with the personal insults, but devoid of intelligence, reason, logic, or rationality.
More like the yammering of some spoiled rotten three year-olds that their single mom’s(probably wearing red “T” shirts) wished off unto someone else, after they’ve f*****d them up in the head so badly that even they can’t stand them anymore. 🙂
Just keep it concealed, if nobody can see it then it’s not there. I never disarm myself because of some dumbass laws. Stay strapped, it’s a wild and unpredictable world out there.
This X 1000
This is a short term solution. Out of sight, out of mind… It’s how we went to concealed handgun licensing in Ohio rather than directly to constitutional carry. It’s been an uphill battle ever since. “Concealed means concealed” adds to long term gun control because the sheep don’t realize how many people are actually armed and the politicians exploit that ignorance.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
FINALLY! Someone gets it! If you have a good holster and dress around your gun, no one will know you have it. I refuse to let stupid laws disarm me. Unless I have to walk through a metal detector or get wanded, I’m carrying. Period.
Yeah home school. And avoid indoctrination from leftards. My son the fudd does and my brother has done it with 10(!) kid’s. My son’s are all grown now but the whole weirdo agenda was creeping in in their last years. I’d say “carry anyway” but hey it’s your call…
While attending college to become a school teacher I went back and forth about whether or not to pocket carry a Beretta 21A. After about six months I decided I would keep my gun in my pocket. Yes I took a chance. But I would rather have something to actually fight with than to throw rocks, which is what the gun grabbers really wants you to do. Or just lay down and die.
That’s when I really learned how to dress around a gun. And I did a lot of practicing shooting that little 22 caliber handgun out to 25 yards. At a range down the street from where I live. Because I knew if I had to use it, I would probably be making hallway shots.
It’s a 40 mile drive one way but there is a gun range that has an indoor shooting facility out to 75 yards in Nashville Tennessee. It’s a converted movie theater. And I practice there as well.
Scary stuff Jeremy!
Glad everything turned out well.
If my hypothetical children had to be picked up in a non-home school, I would be carrying because A) 2nd amendment and B) enhanced concealed carry permits in MS allow it…it shouldn’t be necessary, but it’s better than a lot of states’ carry law.
From personal experience, better to be found “with” by the good guys, than found “without” by the bad guys. -30-
“The sky is falling, the sky is falling”…
Chicken Little
Being unarmed has the unexpected result of forcing you to quickly find ways to be armed with anything you can find.
All of which will be inferior to someone with a gun.
Hmm.
Does this – “A very good SWAT team, by the way. One that I’ve actually knocked a door down with.” – seem to suggest that Jeremy is/was LE?
If so, cooperating with LE instructions seems to be understandable.
No, just training and other activities I’ve had the opportunity to do mostly for TTAG work over the last almost 7 years. I’ve been able to participate in all sorts of cool training sessions with different groups and instructors and scenarios and such 👍
you were angry because you just had your basic human rights violated
Hardly a school year goes by that we don’t have multiple stories about school lockdowns because someone saw a man with a gun somewhere a few blocks away. In Arizona, which has concealed carry, open carry, constitutional carry and just about everyone has a gun. Nitwits.
Seriously, I have to agree with the folks saying collect your kids and get in the automobile. Are the cops really going to arrest or shoot you for running away from a potential shooter?? As opposed to hunkering down in a gun free fire zone?
Lastly, concealed means concealed (and I’m personally sick of that phrase).
Well in this case i would not have been running away, but straight into it. My car was parked 30 feet from the front of the house where the kids were on that side of the street. The other side of the street is school grounds.
So the kids with the airsoft guns were right by your vehicle just 30 feet away across the street and you never saw them at all?
You misunderstand. I described above where the car was. That has nothing to do with where I was.
We had no line of sight to where my car was. I had no way of knowing from which direction the threat was coming. Police were arriving on all sides of the property due to a ‘dangerous situation nearby that may be approaching the school.’ The choices I had with the information I had were go inside the locked school with the police beginning to surround the perimeter of it or leave this increasingly secure area and hope to simply luck out and happen to head away from the threat instead of into it.
As it turns out, all of the people in the comments here who said “you should have just run for your car” couldn’t have been more wrong. Not only was running into the unknown the clear wrong decision in this case, but everyone also chose the exact worst possible direction in which to go. Even with hindsight y’all made the worst choice available.
Well… not quite.
Going to the car would have been the actual correct decision, seeing as 20/20 hindsight proves that the ‘threat’ did not, in actual fact, exist. Correct?
OFC, there was no way to KNOW that at the time. Yet, there is never a way to know all the facts about anything, so what you’re really saying is: “I did the best I could at the time”, correct? And there is nothing at all wrong with that, but it is not the same as saying; “I made the correct choice”.
In hindsight, just leaving would not have been “the clear wrong decision in this case”, but clearly the correct decision, based upon the fact that no threat existed, in spite of the fear that it might have. I trust that you can see the difference here, yes?
Apparently Suzanna Hupp wasn’t able to teach Texans anything…
Man the Monday morning quarterbacking is strong here, all on a Thursday.
I wasn’t there, so I have no idea how I would react, but if ever I was in a similar situation I’d want you crouching on a stool next to me 🙂
Luckily I live in a state where I can carry concealed into school.
I was really interested to read this article and it prompted me to share something I’ve been recently thinking about. I experienced a very similar thing (exactly a year ago next week) when I was volunteering at my son’s school on science day (kinder age). All the kids were everywhere between different stations, inside/outside the classrooms, in the gym, etc. when the school called a lockdown because an aggressive and confused person attempted to enter the school (access is controlled through the main office). I observed and learned a few things that day –
1. Seeing kindergartners and their teachers go through an unplanned lockdown in the middle of activities like that gave me a newfound respect for the crap they have to put up with. Literally broke my heart to see these kids scared and confused while the teachers held them with no idea what was going on. My son’s kinder teacher responded as much or more as I would expect any mom to and when she looked at me and said with pain “I don’t know where my kids are…,” she meant it as *her* kids. This shouldn’t be normal. I think everyone should be able to agree that is a problem, regardless of their political viewpoint on how to fix it.
2. No, I didn’t try and leave, or go after my son (which was my first instinct because he was out of his classroom at a different station in the gym). The school had a practiced plan and executed it in a difficult situation. I trusted the teachers and other parents with my son to do their job, so I was not going to head off into an unknown situation where a lone man could be mistaken for the threat during the expected police response. Luckily, I’m in a city with a lot of good people where I trust enough will act if needed, but who knows. It’s a good lesson to remember that would-be rescuers often become victims when they charge into a scene to help on instinct/ However, you can’t help anyone if you become a victim and/or complicate a situation.
3. I took it to be my job to protect these kids as my own and came up with a similar plan of action as the article – stay alert for nature/confirmation of the threat, note vulnerabilities and best positioning for likely scenarios without trampling a scared child, and plan aggressive, immediate response with object at hand (my pocket knife and chair). Luckily my room was more sheltered, but I had a whole bunch of 5 y.o.s, a mom, and two kinder teachers with me, so I planned to do anything I could to put myself between a threat and them as I think those teachers would have. My family comes first, but I saw my own kids in those kids, my own wife in that mom, and my sister (who is a teacher) in those teachers so doing whatever was needed, where I was at, still felt critically important.
4. There was also one older fellow on the other side of the room that did undermine the trust I mentioned earlier because he was completely dismissive of the reality of the situation. He was nonchalant, bored, staring at the ground, and generally uninterested in what was going on. I can’t know for sure what was going on in his mind, but it was super frustrating that he didn’t even seem to recognize the potential for danger. Even though I felt it was likely an overabundance of caution (usually the lockdowns in our city are related to a burglary or some other unrelated crime happening in the area), I feel it’s still important to maintain a sense of vulnerability that bad things do happen and they could happen to you. I expected it to be a trivial thing that caused the lockdown, so I was surprised to learn about an actual deranged individual trying to get on school grounds not 50 yards from the classroom I was in. Kudos to the front staff to not hesitate to warn the school and call the police at the first sign of real trouble. The aggressor received a nice trip to jail.
5. I was also angry – angry that there are evil people in the world who would threaten kids. Angry that hiding in a darkened room with locked door was the best we could offer them where we at the mercy of a merciless aggressor. Did I sympathize for a moment with anti-gunners? Yes, for a moment – but witnessing it firsthand only confirmed in my mind that all the anti-rhetoric would never make these kids safer in our lifetime. Administrative controls just aren’t effective enough because it relies on the success of human behavior. The same weakness that allows the threat in the first place. Finding myself in the same shoes as those kids made me realize that a lockdown felt like very little protection at all. No wonder those kids are scared during those events, I think even they recognize they are powerless and exposed. Having firearms seemed the simplest way to level the field, but school design and hardening, also came to my mind.
6. Did I wish I had a firearm, oh yes and I think gun-free zones are bunk (but a reality in CA). Was there any shred of desire to end up on the evening news a hero or live some fantasy? Hell no. I do a lot of safety training – thinking about and mitigating risks is part of my job – at home and profession. I hope the preventative safeguards will always carry the day and I never have to rely on my skills and experience to save my life or someone else’s, but I do want to be ready and I’m glad there are like minded people out there.
This is far too long for a comment, but it is what it is. To make a long story short, sitting through that actual lockdown adjusted my perspective in a way no debate or discussion could. I think these type of experiences need to be shared and discussed because it’s the closest you get to the real thing at a school without a tragedy.
Target rich environment.
My old high school had all sorts of bomb threats all the time back in that 70’s show. It became a ho-hum experience.
I woulda done this and I woulda done that. You’re all full of shit, sitting behind your computer acting like a bad ass.
I don’t see the big deal to get angry or upset about. Did your phone not have 4g signal to play games and update social media in the library or something? Maybe next time ask them if you can use their WiFi? /sarc/
Why is it a good plan to herd everyone into one limited-access place, neither hidden nor protected?
If there’s an actual wanna-be shooter, how does this get better outcomes?
I there’s not, it terrifies people, teaches them the world is more dangerous than it is, and trains them to be passive. (Wooo – trifecta?!)
Oh, wait. It secures understanding n control for the authoritah. This is why you spend time “establishing a perimiter” around an active school shooter, as Sheriff Lyin’s folks taught us. They don’t sit you on the floor to give you the best odds if the B G actually comes yr way: it’s so they know where you are, alive or dead.
For a minute there, I forgot what was important.
Besides, it’s not like the people could do anything for themselves… like squirt people away from harm, shield folks with ballistic mats, die holding a door to buy others time. Or respond by getting in there, from a jurisdiction away or a ball field.
The presuppositions behind these “safety” procedures are ridiculous. The strategies are worse. How about we make people capable, enable dispersed, autonomous action, n screw up the spree killer’s (or terrorist’s) planned advantages?
What’s with “Get in the building.” vs. “There’s a guy with a gun reported, over that way.” If it’s about your control, and you think people random n incapable, you bark orders n demand compliance. If it’s about the results, n you think people capable n maybe even know stuff, you empower them with information n tools. Rather than herd them into a cliche slaughter lot — Library, really? After Columbine? — maybe enable a thousand distinct choices, to as many responses.
They think you are stupid and expendable. They teach you that you are stupid and expendable every time they treat you that way. They manage to use unconfirmed reports n unrelated incidents to repeat the lesson.
It’s like there’s some agenda, like, say, a federal Attourney General, a party, a movement, wants to reprogram the population into a more congenial volk – er – “people.”
^^^ THIS!^^^
Right on the money. Notice how no one wishes to discuss this with you? It’s getting uncomfortably close to their cognitive dissonance. Virtually nobody wants to deal with the fact that our govt is insane, and only desires control over everything and everybody, even it it kills them.
If you haven’t already, you should read the USG document “Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars”, Operations Research Technical Manual TW-SW7905.1
Here is just one source for free download:
https://lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml
Or a printed copy can be obtained under FOIA from the Dept. of the Navy, Office of Naval Intelligence (where the really juicy secrets are kept) under the above title and subtitle.
Everyone needs to quit worrying about whether or not you can carry concealed in whatever location. Carry. Your. Weapon. That is all.
Your comment fails to take into account the potential consequences of doing that. I have a carry permit and live in GA, which has somewhat lax laws when it comes to prohibited areas.
But carrying into the wrong area, like into where I work, is a federal felony. I could lose my job and become a convicted felon (which means no guns or voting). No job = no way to pay the bills and the loss of my family’s health insurance. No way to pay the bills means my wife and kids are losing the house while I’m enjoying three hots and a cot at Club Fed.
Actions have consequences. Even if the risk of that consequence becoming reality (being discovered) is low, the severity thereof is far too high for most people to risk it. If it’s just you, you own everything have outright, no responsibilities, and you have a big bank account, knock yourself out. In the meantime, don’t ridicule those whose priorities extend beyond the 2nd Amendment.
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