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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meVirQLBZSk

I’m old enough to remember when Kelly LeBrock was the world’s most beautiful woman. Actually, I’m older than that. I remember life during wartime. Specifically, growing up during the not-so-beautiful “police action” in Vietnam. The war in Southeast Asia amplified and radicalized America’s political and cultural bifurcation. It was Left vs. Right. Anti-Establishment vs. Establishment. The tension led to violence: Kent State, busted heads at the Chicago convention and deadly riots. I guess we didn’t learn from history. Two visions of America—Big Government vs. Small Government, Gun Control vs. Gun Rights—are competing for dominance. It’s like tectonic plates building up pressure; there will be a release and it won’t be pretty. Where? Odds are it’ll be . . .

in New York, where the SAFE Act is putting Empire State gun owners up against the wall (motherf*cker). Or Connecticut, where the current push for civilian disarmament was born. Or New Jersey, where anti-gun laws are well entrenched, and getting worse. Ditto California. But maybe . . . Kansas.

We’ve already seen Kansas vs. the Feds re: the Sunflower State’s Second Amendment Protection Act. But the breaking point could be between pro and anti-gun forces within Kansas. Check this from kansas.com:

A teacher at White Elementary was arrested Monday for having a gun on the school premises, police said Tuesday.

The 31-year-old man was seen with a gun by someone at the school, 5148 S. Kansas, which is south of Hydraulic and 47th Street South, Lt. Randy Reynolds said. Principal Marcia Shepler called police about 12:30 p.m., according to a police report.

When officers arrived, they found a gun on the teacher and arrested him on suspicion of misdemeanor concealed-carry weapon charges, Reynolds said.

The teacher is on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation, said Susan Arensman, a spokeswoman for the Wichita school district.

It’s not known whether the man had a concealed-carry permit. State law prevents identifying those with a concealed permit.

Could a Wichita teacher be a catalyst for the conflict to come? Probably not. Then again, it’s impossible to know where the socio-political fault line will fracture first. It could be anywhere where individual liberty is squashed by the jackboot of statists.

American gun owners are easily the most fervent of the small government activists. They can be pushed so far and no further. Some things, like Ms. LeBrock, change (and not always for the better). Some things, like gun owner’s dreams of individual liberty, don’t.

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59 COMMENTS

  1. [A]ll seven (Wichita school district) board members have said they would not support an employee carrying a gun.

    So the school children of Wichita are safe, thanks to the brave members of the school board.

    What would the world be like without school administrators, who are generally wannabe politicians and sometimes failed teachers who can’t even teach gym? Why, schools might even teach, instead of merely graduating ignorant fools who can’t read, write or think.

    A long time ago I learned that American factories produce wheelbarrows, and American public schools produce people to push them.

        • He needs to modify the last line of that to “good teachers….”

          because there are bad teachers who don’t do an f’in thing, like the rubber roomers in NYC.

          Otherwise his poem is good.

        • Educators like Taylor Mail are rare and there are far too few of them. Most of my friends I know who are teachers to this day only care about getting summers off.

          Just like many professions that interface with the public: Police, Fireman, Doctors, Teachers or Preachers, there are really, really good ones, but there FAR more bad ones

    • well, you know, I hope they DON’T get what they deserve for such foolishness.

  2. “was seen with a gun”
    “suspicion of ….. concealed-carry weapon”

    Damn those x-ray specs!

  3. If you are going to carry a gun, it is probably better to do so concealed and with a valid concealed carry permit. I believe one of Massad Ayoob’s Ten Commandments of CC is if you are going to carry a concealed firearm, make sure you are doing so legally.

    Regardless of how you feel about this particular issue, it is well known and common knowledge just about everywhere, that you cannot carry a firearm concealed or not onto school property. In some places, you may be able to leave it in your vehicle, but not carry it on your person. Ignorance of the law is no excuse – remember?

    • What will we do when they pass a law requiring us to turn our firearms in? Will you still advocate for the law then?

        • I think the point is that we do not know whether the teacher in question was “ignorant” or willfully non-compliant with the laws in question.

        • I understood your point. I was playing the devil’s advocate. Eventually the law will erode the RKBA down to nothing. My point was, when do we stop obeying them?

        • Fascinating thoughts.

          Actually, in all seriousness, I am going to tattoo your:

          “If you are going to carry a gun, it is probably better to do so concealed and with a valid concealed carry”

          quote on my forehead backwards so I can read it every morning in the mirror.

    • Don’t know about that; it will vary jurisdiction by jurisdiction. A California CCW allows on campus carry in k-12, unless the local sheriff puts a special condition banning school carry on the permit. On the other hand, the employer (school) may-and I suspect likely will– have a restriction in the employment contract barring the carrying of weapons.

    • The federal school gun free zone law exempts permit holders, provided the process to get a permit involves a background check and the state permits it.

      California law permits a CCW hold to carry almost anywhere (even in a bar) and in a K-12 school. It also allows the superindentant or equivalent to allow someone to carry without a permit…though that is moot, since federal law is an issue then.

      My suspicion is that we have had concealed carry for decades longer than say Kansas or Texas. 70 years or more longer. But may issue. The law dates back to 1917. Before many of the same concerns. When Kansas and other “gun friendly” states adopted their CCW laws, they probably had to make such compromises to get them passed (because, if they didn’t have a state law against it, federal law would permit it).

      • I’ve always thought CA CCW permits were like unicorn farts. Everybody knows they exist, but nobody has actually obtained one. Except, possibly, North Korea.

        • No not quite. It really depends on what county you live in, because it is up to the county sheriff. Sacramento county recently went shall-issue, because of a Calguns lawsuit. The county I live in, Calaveras, will issue to almost anybody because we have a rural, small town sheriff. However, try to get a CCW in LA county, and you’re just SOL.

  4. I’m inclined to believe that he carried it in full knowledge that he could be arrested.

    Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

  5. I have no idea if/when things might get ugly, either. Ruby Ridge scenarios are more likely mass conflicts, at least initially I think.

    I still have an eye on California. There many people in the center of the state that will be very, very unhappy if some of the laws working their way through are passed, not to mention current laws.

    Let’s see how some of the CA militia groups react when Leland Yee tells them to hand over their arms. I just wish Mr. Yee and his Bay Area/LA colleagues would have the sack to do it in person. Either way, I’m glad to be out of CA for good.

    • The state is poorer for your absence, so I hope you enjoy your freedom well, and fight the good fight wherever you are.

    • Yup. If When the current bills in the legislature pass, then California will be the state with the most overreaching, encroaching gun ban laws in the union. I am anticipating some massive court smackdowns. If that doesn’t happen, and even if it takes too long, then there will be blood in the streets. There are freedom loving people still living in the northern and eastern areas of the state, and they will only be trampled on so much.

  6. This is not well known…Some States allow a Concealed Carry to any member of the faculty with a letter of permission from the principal of that individual school.
    I hope someone would research all 50 or as Obama would say 58 States.
    In normal times this might be a good project for a student.
    But these Obama Times are not, nor have ever been normal Times for America.
    East Germany or a Communist country or 1937 Nazi country yes…But not America!

    • Actually, Obama’s America has 57 states. I’m just being a pointless Internet stickler.

  7. I can give you an exact day when the defication will hit the ventilation in NY: the first time Cuomo’s stazi try to confiscate someone’s gun who failed to register it in compliance with that great lie – the NYS SAFE Act.

  8. Let’s hope he stands up and says he’d rather go to jail than leave
    children unprotected.

    • Do you think a badge-carrying member of the press would willingly print such a comment?

      • [System says I’m not allowed to edit my own comment.]

        A “Rosa Parks” scenario is still possible, but there isn’t a friendly megaphone to help get the story told this time.

  9. Keep following this case, TTAG. As someone with a CCW permit and who works in education, I’m interested in the results.

  10. Nowhere. A significant # of people will never resist. The few of us who care will hang separately. We’ll be kooks, smeared and lampooned in the media. The subject of a 1984 style 2 minute hate.

    • A significant number of people didn’t participate in the Revolutionary War either. A determined minority willing to act can make a difference when pushed too far but no one will know how many or how far until it’s over.

    • Wasn’t John Brown originally from Kansas? He was labeled a kook, but he got things stirred up a bit before Fort Sumpter. Perhaps we should not worry so much about the “kook” label.

      • I was in Albany, NY yesterday at an anti-SAFE Act rally and got called a gun nut and a moron by some liberal selective civil rights advocate. Boy that smarted.

      • John Brown was from Connecticut. He first made a name for himself by murdering people in Kansas.

  11. It’s interesting, I don’t know about Kansas law, but the corresponding PA law states:

    It is unlawful to possess any firearm on school property but it shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose…”

    As long as you are licensed, then self dense should fall under “other lawful purpose.” So, in theory, anyone with a LTCF should be able to carry on school grounds as long as they commit no crime (and, presumably, violate no school policies). As far as I know, this interpretation hasn’t had a test case yet. Frankly, I don’t intend for it to be me.

  12. It will be curious to see what happens. Wichita is my home town. I am surprised the school board was unanimous in saying that they are opposed to the idea of armed employees. It’s a pretty conservative town. I think it makes sense for armed folks, although I think it should come with the stipulation that you have to have training and show that you have basic competence with a firearm. Do you all see this as unreasonable for employees to be able to carry?

      • Are you on board with those folks being trained without it being required? Is that your point of contention? If so, then how do you give them incentive to get that training? Pay for it from our taxes? I do not want to have our rights trampled, but I also want to minimize the idiots who may choose to carry and then shoot as well as a NY police officer.

        • I’ve heard this argument ad nauseum, and it just doesn’t hold water. Non-LEO DGU’s are almost universally zero collateral damage. Citizens tend to seek training, and even when they don’t they tend to shoot only when they must, and, statistically speaking, they hit what they aim at or miss and hurt no one. I’m pretty sure a large part of the ever-popular “spray and pray” tactic of the cops stems from the fact that they’re immune to consequences of stray rounds. Citizens are not; we’re accountable for every round, so armed citizens tend to make every round count. Statistically speaking.

        • @TR I hear ya, I have heard the argument as well. I guess I just figure that I have sought out training myself. It would be a bonus if those in charge of children and carrying sought it out at as well. But, I want to be clear, I was just exploring ways to make it happen. If it means it could lead to more infringement on our rights, then I get that it’s a no go.

        • @Patriot, it wouldn’t let me reply to your reply, so I’m replying here. I re-read your original comment, and I completely agree. If the gub’mint would start looking for ways to incentivize training (tax write-off?) I’d be all for it. And I agree that it shouldn’t be at the expense of other taxpayers, i.e. putting it on our dime. And I understand the caveat about making sure it could not be used as a foot in the door to further restrict our rights. So yeah, I get you now. Good points, all.

        • @Robert and @TR It won’t let me reply to yours either so here’s mine: Mea Culpa, I worded my original comment very poorly. I shouldn’t have insinuated it being “contingent upon”. I was trying to just figure out some way of getting folks to WANT to train up. Maybe manufacturers could offer cash rebates with proof of training? It would be a lot to ask of them, but maybe some would be willing.

    • You are from Wichita? You should go over to the school board and rip them a new one right now. Take your friends and neighbors with you. Those are your kids not theirs.

  13. My wife works for the YMCA child care system. She runs a before & after school day care center at an elementary school. One of the things she was asked to do by her boss, was to take down photos from her Facebook page of her shooting her AK and pistols. The argument was that some nosy parent might complain, and given the area that we live in (greater Seattle area), I wouldn’t be surprised. My wife simply set her Facebook page to 100% private, but it was ridiculous that it ever had to happen in the first place.

    Do all educators have to live their lives in absolute secret now, even when their hobbies and interests are perfectly legal, but politically incorrect?

  14. In my state, it’s a big no no to carry into any school. If you are a school employee, different rules apply, and I think involves written permission if you are a CCP holder.

  15. Just so we are clear:

    Federal Gun Zone Law exempts people that are residents of that state and have permits that required a background check, and are otherwise permitted to carry k-12 in state law.

    A quick run down (as of the end of 2012)

    1. Alabama- Permit holders are allowed to carry, concealed, k-12. State law otherwise forbids carry arms on a k-12 public school or school bus (no ban on college campuses).

    2. Alaska- Not allowed generally and against state law. Though oddly the law exempts students (“a preschool, elementary, junior high, or secondary school student”) from the charge of misconduct with a firearm in this case. Carry can happen with explicit permission of the “chief administrative officer” or head of the district.

    3. Arizona- Allowed (though the law is confusingly written). One may have it in the car, provided it is unloaded, and if you leave the car, not visible.

    4. Arkansas- Not allowed and against state law(“Any school, college, community college, or university campus building or event, unless forthe purpose of participating in an authorized firearms-related activity;”

    5. California- Permit holders are allowed to carry in k-12 schools.

    6. Colorado- Not allowed and against state law

    7. Conneticut- Not allowed and against state law

    8. Delaware- Not allowed and against state law

    9. Florida- Not allowed and against state law (even campus carry is banned, except “any college or university facilityunless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college oruniversity and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solelyfor defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile”)

    I think you get the picture. 42 states and DC ban it by state law. Hawaii and New Hampshire have no specific law against it, but that makes it likely illegal under Federal law as they don’t expressly allow it either.

    Alabama, Arizona, California, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah are the only 6 days to expressly allow it. Isn’t that something?

    • In my CC class in NC, we were told carrying was a no-no in any educational facility. That includes teaching hospitals. How the heck do you know if the hospital you’re in is a “teaching” hospital? They don’t really look any different than a “regular” hospital.

    • “6. Colorado- Not allowed and against state law”

      Allowed for those that have a Concealed Handgun Permit, as long as the firearm doesn’t leave one’s vehicle. If the permittee leaves the vehicle, the firearm must remain and the vehicle must be locked.

      C.R.S. 18-12-214.

    • Here in Michigan (I think, I could be wrong, but its something crazy like this) you can’t CC in a school, but you can open carry in one if you have a CPL.

      Also, movie theatres, sports arenas, (listed as entertainment venues) its only illegal to CC if the building has a capacity of 2500 or more, so I asked one of the city cops about this (we have a 3 screen theatre) and he said I was good to go.

  16. Kansas allows their permit holders to carry in schools like this unless the school posts otherwise. Kansas sign posting requirements are extremely specific and thorough (sign at least 8×8 inches, four-six feet off of ground, etc etc):

    http://www.ag.ks.gov/docs/documents/approved-signage-notice.pdf?sfvrsn=0

    If this guy had a CCW, the case will turn on whether the school had the proper signage size, color, at the right height, etc. Of course, he’ll likely be fired regardless, but if the signs aren’t correct, he’ll keep his permit and won’t go to jail.

  19. This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no foolin’ around…..

  20. Thats where sites like TTAG help, by members letting off steam & preaching to the choir. I still am floored that someone hasn’t given “the big payback” to the grabbers yet & attribute it to this. Randy

  21. If I was the teacher with the gun and found out who the rat was….their life would be hell on Earth.

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