Tacoma pickup shot by LAPD (courtesy cbsnews.com)

“Attorney Glen Jonas said Maggie Carranza, 47, and her mother, 71-year-old Emma Hernandez, were delivering Los Angeles Times newspapers around 5:15 a.m. in Torrance when the officers opened fire on their vehicle,” cbsnews.com reports. “‘There was no warning. There were no orders. No commands. Just gunshots.’ In a news conference, Police Chief Charlie Beck said the officers thought the women’s royal blue Toyota Tacoma matched the description of Dorner’s dark-colored Nissan pickup truck. ‘Tragically, we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers,’ said Beck. Jonas finds that hard to believe . . .

The vehicle is a different color. The license plate doesn’t match. There’s nothing there for you to start shooting people. And even if they had the person in question… Mr. Dorner…you still have to give them an opportunity to get out. You can’t just start administering street justice,” said Jonas.

Carranza suffered minor injuries to her hand from shattering glass.

Hernandez, who was shot in the back, is in ICU at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center.

What are the odds that LAPD’s trigger-happy cops get a pass? And while it’s great that CBS has tackled this story (which they didn’t do yesterday, before the press conference) what about the other mistaken identity shooting?

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143 COMMENTS

    • Not really, assuming they had badges. They’re the law. But the vigilantes in Autyla, Mexico, recently brought peace to their villages in two days, after the Federales failed for five years. There is something to be said for neighbors protecting neighborhoods when criminals become brazen, as in Chicago or LA, isn’t there?

      • vig·i·lan·te

        adjective
        Done violently and summarily, without recourse to lawful procedures: vigilante justice.

        A badge does not give you the right to ignore due process. Cops are supposed to arrest. The courts do the rest. Even the charges they arrest you for are up to the DA to decide.

        Police help the victim start the process of justice, they do not perform it.

        • Sorry,CZ Jay: I was using the O.E.D, definition. The LAPD isn’t a vigilance commission. They are something else entirely. They shoot blue trucks. I suppose they’re a very expensive truck-hunting club?

          vigilante
          (vɪdʒɪˈlæntɪ, vɪdʒɪˈlɑːnteɪ)
          [a. Sp. vigilante vigilant a.]
          1.1 orig. U.S. A member of a vigilance committee. Also transf. and attrib.

    • …since no one seems to have been killed…and will “recover”…I hope folks take this in the “right vein”…how great is this….I want to hear the explanation for this street justice….what a group of effin’ cowards….I can just hear it now ,…”well it looked like his truck”….so let us just open fire…? The city of Torrance should just raise the tax on soda by a dime…right now…just to get ahead on the payment schedule of the lost lawsuit….what idiots….just open fire…

      Regards,

      RJ O’Guillory
      Author-
      Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

      • And let us remember that many times a person will not fully recover from a gunshot and may be partially paralyzed, have ongoing pain, loss of mobility etc. for the rest of their life.

        Which is why I hate to see criminal shoot people who survive and the crime is pled down to aggravated assault.

      • Just look at the recent shooting in the cleveland area where 2 people in a car were slaughtered by 13 cops and 135 shots after a long high speed chase. No weapon were found in the vehicle of the scene, not threats had been made, they were just shot for running. Cops are out of control in this country, not guns.

        • This is nothing new:

          2012: NYPD officers responded to a report of shots fired with one victim killed in front of the Empire State Building. Officers fired sixteen rounds wounding 9 civilians and killing the shooter.[5]
          2011: On Memorial Day in Miami Beach several police officers fired until their magazines were empty on a stopped car after the driver smashed into other cars, killing the driver and injuring seven bystanders.[6]
          2010: A bystander was injured in Harlem when a man “open[ed] fire on responding officers, who fired 46 times in response.”[4] “In the Harlem episode, unlike the Bell and Diallo cases, a gun was shot before any officers fired, according to the police account. So, Professor O’Donnell said, in the Harlem case, ‘there really is a shot,’ and not just the threat of gunfire.”[4]
          2009: A man threatening officers with a rifle was shot 59 times in what was ruled a “suicide-by-cop”[7] in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
          2006: Five officers fired 50 shots at Sean Bell in Queens, New York, including 31 by one detective – who reloaded his weapon during the incident.[2][4][8]
          2006: Three officers fired 26 shots at a pit bull that had bitten a chunk out of an officer’s leg in the Bronx, New York in July.[9]
          2006: Police fired 110 rounds at a suspect, Angilo Freeland, who had killed an officer earlier, hitting him 68 times. Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd famously told the Orlando Sentinel, “That’s all the bullets we had”.[10]
          2005: Eight officers fired 43 shots at Brian Allen, an armed man, in Queens, New York killing him.[11]
          2005: June, six Los Angeles County, California sheriff’s deputies fired more than 50 shots into the car in which drunken driving suspect Carl Williams was driving, after his car rammed a police vehicle following a chase. One deputy had to reload his weapon during the incident.[12]
          2004: “When 44-year-old drug suspect Winston Hayes’ SUV lurched forward he hit a police car, deputies unloaded their weapons, firing 120 shots. Four bullets ended up hitting Hayes who survived, one hit a deputy sheriff, 11 hit patrol cars and 11 hit five homes in the neighborhood (one of them ended up tearing a hole in a homeowner’s hat).” —ABC News.[12]
          1999: Four officers fired 41 shots at Amadou Diallo, an unarmed man in the Bronx, New York on February 4, 1999.[4][13][14]
          1998: New Jersey State Police fired 11 shots at Daniel Reyes and three other basketball players in their car in April.[15]

        • Martin
          Assuming all 13 cops were shooting at roughly equal rates, to shoot 135 rounds, no one would have to reload at all.
          I can’t find exactly what Cleveland PD issues, but lets make a conservative estimate that whatever it is has about a 15rd mag.
          13*15= 195
          so, there were a minimum of 195rds between them, and they fired 135. I can’t find any news reports that mentioned mag changes (but send them my way if you have them). Obviously, it was a bad shoot, but exaggeration only hurts your case.

    • Street justice is commonplace for cops in this country. They all too often act as judge, jury and executioner.

      • As much as I liked the new Dredd movie, apparently nobody told those LAPD cops that it’s a work of fiction.

    • I’ll bet $100 that Dorner will be shot to death. The police state mercenaries will do everything they can think of with their reptile brains to create a situation where they can fill him up with lead.

      For revenge.

      • If after reading his manifesto you think he’d allow himself to be captured alive, you’re crazy…

    • Don’t you know? This is all a part of the master plan to disarm us all. First the Police shoot up everything they can to create an uproar that the police shouldn’t carry firearms. But before they disarm the public must be relieved of their weapons, you know, for the officers’ safety. Somehow after everyone else is disarmed the police are never quite able to let go of their hardware…..

    • James Yeager admitted to doing the same in Iraq in the after action report of the only firefight he was ever in. He shot up a house which he said he knew did not contain the enemy, and then shot up a civilians car too.

      • He was a mercenary (private security contractor) which was probably why he didn’t get arrested. Huge difference between an ex-cop/mercenary and someone in the military.

        • The Blackfiltywater guys used to drive down the street, just firing for their own amusement at anyone and anything they wanted.

          There were several vids out there, but contractors were completely untouchable at that point.

  6. Ummm even if it had been the cop killer since when can the cops just kill on sight? This is totally unacceptable, I hope LA pays big in a lawsuit for this.

    Also the suspects vehicle was described as a Gray Nissan pickup. This was a blue toyota pickup….dont know how you maketat mistake….gray…mettalic blue…very different colors.

      • Criminal gun owner of the month, actually. There is no protocol permitting firing upon anyone in any of these United States who does not present the apparent immediate intent and ability to cause serious bodily injury or death. It doesn’t matter if your best friend, spouse, or fellow LEO was killed the day before. Being blue and built in Japan is not an active threat.

  8. There is no such thing as a “full recovery” from most any injury at 71. That goes double for being shot. That woman should pretty much get carte blanche afaic.

    • Yep, and note that the 71-year-old was the one shot in the back. Probable organ damage, maybe spinal damage, who knows. She’s in ICU.

  9. Looks like an assassination attempt to me. Two groups in the back of their heads. Then into the tailgate when they ducked down.

    On the lighter side – Since they were LA LEO’s what’s that hit ratio anyway, 1 out of how many?

      • If both had died, the LAPD would have told a very different story. Dead women tell no tales.

        Maybe that will be incentive for LAPD to increase their shooting proficiency. I can see the review board now: “WTF??? You two numbnuts shot 60 rounds all over the !@#$% neighborhood and you didn’t kill either of those old !@#$% broads? Do you have any !@#$% idea how much this is going to cost us?”

      • To pin their injuries on the fugitive, it would have to be somewhat foreseeable that his actions would cause the police to run around town intentionally shooting all occupants of pickup trucks. So, probably not. The intentional attempted murder by the LAPD would probably be sufficient so as to break the chain of causation, as the kids say.

    • So if you think about it, they opened fire as soon as they saw some random pickup truck (wrong color, wrong model, wrong plates, wrong occupants). But because they’re cops, this will not constitute criminal behavior, even though it’s no different than some gang shooting up a random vehicle.

      LAPD: We don’t discriminate, we’ll shoot anybody for no reason.

      • Yea, if I had any say in the matter those cops would be spending the rest of their life in a Federal “pound me in the ass” prison (Office Space reference) in the general population.

        • Wouldn’t this be attempted murder if anybody other than a cop did this?

          Look at George Zimmerman. He shoots a thug in self defense and is put on trial for murder (June 6th I think). But something tells me nothing will happen to these LAPD cops. Well, no criminal charges anyway. I’m sure there will be some nice excuse as to why they shot up a random vehicle with no connection to their case.

  11. * If only they hadn’t been driving an assault pick-up truck.
    * We must ban the police and military from carrying guns…if it saves but one life.
    * We can only trust the professionals such as are in the army and police to posses guns because they can be trusted to… oh’ wait a minute.
    * “we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers”
    —- thanks for the brilliant police analysis.

    • What was the mistake? Does two small Latina women equal one large black man in the LAPD handbook? There was no identification. So no mistake.

      • Further, the back of their pickup clearly demonstrates that the police shot at both the driver AND the passenger–when they were after one man. I can’t think of any rational reason for that. Either someone got shoot on sight orders, or emotional (rather than rational) police officers have decided that Dorner will not be taken alive–often the fate of a cop killer, but still clearly contrary to law. These police are acting like a gang–as some one once described the CPD, they are “our” gang. Sad sad sad.

        • If one ex-cop ex-soldier can cause so much fear and create so much havoc and crazy-cop trigger-happy behavior what can 100 trained and experienced men do?

      • Agreed, No mistake. I could have worded that better. I was patronizing the canned PR BS reply. Obviously the police never made a visual of the cab’s occupants or did they?

      • Good thing I wasn’t driving my Ford F-150 in white with MN plates down there… I don’t like being shot at.

    • one of the people interviewed in that article said some funny stuff.

      he said they live in the neighborhood because of the retired LEO’s that also live there, they “know it’s safe”. yeah… house shot up by LAPD, the only violence they’ve ever experienced in that neighborhood. Safe, indeed.

      before that he said they were luckier than their neighbors because their cars full of bullet holes were driveable and their neighbors’ weren’t due to a pierced radiator and tire…… i’d like to make a suggestion, in that they’re lucky because their bodies aren’t riddled with bullets like their houses and vehicles(not to mention the 71 year old woman who was shot in the back). seriously people WTF!?

  14. Typical cops. They will probably get off with a slap on the wrist for their attempted execution.

      • It appears that they were given medals for not killing the entire family, because apparently they did go to the ‘right’ house, but they’d been given a bad address by some confidential informant, via some task force. The medals were probably the PD’s way of saying “sorry we put you in such a stupid position.” There are much better slower ways to fill a high-risk warrant. Like covering the lines around the house with SWAT on opposite corners, and calling in to the house, etc.

        • At 1:15 it says they were given medals for not retreating. At 1:30 it says the situation could have gone horribly wrong if it was not for the professionalism of the officers, which is a complete lie, because the officers returned fire. The only reason the family wasnt shot was because the cops either fired blindly, or because the cops had bad aim.

          It also could have been prevented by performing basic surveillance on the home, subpoenaing utility bills for the home to see who has been paying the bills, etc. Instead they trusted a informant, who is probably a drug addict, and who would have said anything to get out of jail.

        • I agree, Matt. My meaning was that the REAL reason the PD gave them the medals was because all that checking was supposed to have been done already. Keeps SWAT from shooting the guys on the “task force.”

  15. Odds are very high that they get a pass, whereas anyone else would have been arrested, charged with attempted second degree murder, etc.

    We’re no longer a nation of laws. We’re a nation of Ivy League royalty, their vassals (the bureaucrats and public employees) and then us private-sector serfs.

    • I’d agree completely if you substituted “corporate royalty” for “ivy league royalty.” Many more than half of Fortune 500 CEO’s went to places like Penn State and Notre Dame. It’s different in the big financial companies. But the opinion difference between big city appointed police chiefs versus county elected sheriffs makes the truth of your point clear. Fox News going soft on the 2nd Amendment issue despite their audience’s propensities… in order to please Murdoch…adds more to your argument.

  17. Note that all the bullet holes were in the back of the blue truck (which the women were driving). So the truck was not moving towards the cops at the time they decided to start blasting away.

    So what does this scenario look like? Cops are in an unmarked car on the street, or maybe hidden on the property? (I dunno about this sort of thing — does anybody else?) They see a vehicle with no lights on, coming slowly down the street, perhaps stopping here and there (so a woman could get out and deliver a paper), but perhaps not (not many people get a paper any more). Heart starts racing, weapons come out, and now they can see it’s a truck. They know Dorner has a dark-colored truck. Were there streetlights? Was it really impossible to tell this was a bright-blue truck? If the cops had started blasting while the truck was headed right towards them, I could maybe understand, at least a little. But they waited until it went past. They still couldn’t tell it was bright blue? Maybe the truck stopped, so a woman could get out to deliver a paper. The truck door opens, and the cops freak? Both cops empty their mags: Blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam. Stop to get a new mag. Hey, why do we hear women screaming?

    I don’t buy it. If you can’t see well enough to see that the truck was the wrong color, and you can’t see well enough to see that those are women in the truck (47 and 71 years old, for God’s sake!), then you can’t see well enough to start shooting.

    Well, those two women have a big payday coming, at the taxpayers’ expense.

  18. Well, those two women have a big payday coming, at the taxpayers’ expense.

    No, they don’t. This will be ruled a good shoot, and the city will say “Sorry, we’re not liable. You shouldn’t have been out when we’re looking for someone.”

  19. RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
    Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.

    From the story:
    He called 911 and was told that police were already there.
    “That’s why we live here because it is safe,” said the cardiologist technician. “It’s ironic that the only violence we experienced here is from LAPD.”
    Richard Goo
    Ha ha… he might need to move out of the neighborhood now. I’m sure the LAPD are running his background for any outstandings.

  20. Wishful thinking on the money. By the time investigations are done, lawsuits prepared, delays, postponements, appeals, negiotations, the 71 year old will be 99 and in a grave.

    Meanwhile, officers involved will get paid, promoted, retire, live the good life.

    Wake up people. Business as usual in the good ol’ US of A.

      • This is the scary part. Imagine LA with numerous pissed off, incompetent, entitled, criminal cops; that’s today. Now imagine when their make-believe retirement gets jerked.

  21. Thats like the fire dept sinking the pointed part of the ax in the door without knocking. This is probably the worst act of incompetance I’ve heard of in 62 years. Heads will roll. This will make the rodney king thing look like a minor misunderstanding, Randy

    • Please, the media are already covering this thing up. There are no consequences any more for the Ruling Class. See Fast and Furious.

    • I agree with “there will be a payday.” There’s nothing to cover up. It was all out in public. Now I’m not saying they won’t be deported next week even if they’re citizens….

  22. I would just say let the piggies who did this roast, but there needs to be a full-blown investigation of the entire LAPD. This is ridiculuous. It’s long been well-known that the LA swine loves to beat them up some dark-skinned folk in handcuffs, but it appears they’ve graduated to half-a__ed 1980s El Salvadoran death squad impersonations.

    • I don’t blame guys for putting forth the LEO’s side on incidents. In this instance, though, the royal blue metallic truck, there simply isn’t any LEO side to argue for. What are they going to say? “Well, damn, they underplayed it. Should have run another clip through that rice burner!”?

    • Sometimes what might seem illegal looks that way if you only have some of the facts, or ignore those you don’t like. This does not appear to fit in that category, so I don’t have any “on the other hand” type ideas for consideration. Sometimes it’s just plain wrong.

  24. A measured response to Asymmetrical warfare.It’s not everyday the hunted becomes the prey.
    Trust me ,nobody is interested in capturing Mr.Dorner.If one reads the manifesto with any belief then one can only foresee a body bag in Mr.Dorners future.
    Chief Beck looked a little nervous at his press briefing the other day. Just saying.

  25. Would it be far fetched to think that tomorow a white “little person” will become a K-9 chew toy for wearing a shirt like the suspects?

  26. Truly sad. The LAPD should absolutely be held accountable for this. The more details emerge, the more this looks like a cover up of a dirty shoot. Even more sad: CA politicians will attempt to use his episode to advance civilian disarmament.

    The LAPD pay out millions each year in lawsuits. This looks like another one, yet where are the voices of reason which show that civilian shooters are overall more accurate than police. Events like this create animosity between LEOs and the public, and this BS makes my job more difficult and more dangerous.

    I did manage to sail through 150 rounds of 9mm and .40 today without shooting the wrong damn target. The LAPD needs more target practice and more accountability.

    • If the LAPD had more practice wouldn’t that mean that all 3 victims (so far) of the LAPD would be dead?

    • I hope you’ve got a good supply. It could be a year before you can get more. Maybe a lot longer, if the gov’t plays its cards right.

      • My ammo supply isn’t stellar, but I have no choice but to practice and maintain proficiency. Plus, shooting is fun. At some point life is better with some good shooting practice and hunting than stressing out over an ammo stockpile. I can still buy 9mm and .40 through civilian outlets and LEO sources.

        • Then you’re doing better than I am. In the Seattle area, the .40 lasted a little longer than the 9mm, but there ain’t any of either to be found on store shelves now.

    • Johnnie Cochran made a fabulous living by beating the sh~t out of the LAPD for their criminal activities. I wasn’t crazy about the way he played the race card during the Simpson trial, but the fact is that LA needs more lawyers like Cochran. In fact, the whole country does.

  27. And people wonder why I’m a firearms aficionado.

    As the old adage ends, “then only the criminals will have them.”

  28. Lets just all thank whatever god we pray to that these 2 women are alive to give their truthful testimony.

  29. Mistake two Hispanic women for a giant sized black dude? Hell I do that all the time. Then I go out fer some deep fried with a side o’ mayo and extra hotsauce.

    Getting a Toyota confused with a Nissan tho, man I don’t get that one. Burp.

  30. “In a news conference, Police Chief Charlie Beck said the officers thought the women’s royal blue Toyota Tacoma matched the description of Dorner’s dark-colored Nissan pickup truck.”

    “Royal Blue”???? More weasel-words from the boys in “CYA Blue”. Ask 100 people what color that truck is, and 99 will say “metallic blue” (the other one will say “orange” just to be a smartass). The Chief chose to call it “Royal Blue” (which is darker) to try to excuse his trigger-happy cops. I don’t believe for a moment that residential street was completely dark, and metallic blue would have caught whatever light there was.

    I’m betting the cops were on edge because the truck had no headlights on, but let it go by because they saw what color it was. Then, to their surprise, the truck stopped and the door opened (so a woman could deliver a newspaper). Cops panicked and starting firing.

      • No lights, driving slowly –> Defcon 1 –> weapons drawn –> hearts racing –> this could be it –> wait, that truck’s blue –> is that 2 people in there? –> maybe the color got reported wrong –> maybe he picked up an accomplice, or a hostage –> fingers tighten on triggers –> but it’s driving right by –> start to relax slightly, but bloodstream still running 80% adrenaline –> wait, what’s it doing now –> it’s slowing down, just 30 yards away –> now it’s stopping !@#$% –> door just opened! –> !@#$%!@#$% –> blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam –> new mags –> . . . –> uh . . . –> why do I hear women screaming?

        Obviously I’m not excusing what they did. Just trying to understand.

        • maybe he picked up an accomplice, or a hostage

          How likely is it that he picked up an accomplice? I mean really. And regarding a hostage, look at the shot pattern, its obvious they were trying to kill both occupants, it seems like a odd way to treat a hostage situation.

        • The point I was trying to make is that an adrenaline-fueled panic response doesn’t allow for too much contemplation.

          If indeed their response was instinctive (panic), rather than measured, they are no better than animals. Perhaps that’s not a disqualifying trait in LAPD?

  31. I have a problem with lots of the shootings lately. These guys roll with AR’s, a pistol, but no flashlight? My bedside flashlight will light up a house 200 yards away like it was daytime. In LA, NYC, and Chicago there have been too many shootings in which the PD says “we couldn’t see that it was (a cellphone, the wrong person).” Forget new guns or extra training: Buy some “modern sporting flashlights.” No more “it was too dark so I just shot everything” excuses.

    • I carry two handheld flashlights, one on my pistol, and one on my rifle. Doesn’t do a bit of good if you don’t use them, and certainly no good if you don’t use sound judgement when bringing lethal force to bear whatever the circumstances.

      And I have no idea how many lights the average officer carries there.

      • Might have put that in vague terms, that’s four lights total. Also, my department does low light training and qualification yearly.

    • When I was a yoot in the Bronx, all the cops and the bulls carried big, black flashlights. Not only could they light up the night, but they were also very effective when crashed into another person’s skull. Do not ask me how I know this.

      But it was all good — we could always spot those sly plainclothes guys a mile away by their flashlights.

      • ….let me tell you…when your Cop-Dad decides to take a break from beating you with his lead-filled nightstick, and switched over to whacking you in the elbow, the back of the head and shins with that long, black flashlight they carried…it was a different experience…you knew it was going to hurt…but the beating couldn’t go on for as long… as my Dad didn’t want to break the lens or bulb during the “discipline session”…. ….considering the development of lights these days….car-spotlight, hand flashlight, gun lights….you’d think these idiots could have pointed a light in their direction…. but I think they just rolled up on the truck and started shooting…! (?)

        Regards,

        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

  32. “Street justice” indeed. This and the incident with the Honda Ridgeline driver were nothing more than attempts at summary execution. One could argue it validates some of the lunatic Dorner’s claims of police criminality. Wonder how many of the cops who shot up these two vehicles and wounded those poor citizens get prosecuted. Yea, right.

    • Wonder how many of the cops who shot up these two vehicles and wounded those poor citizens get prosecuted promoted.

      FIFY.

  33. The cops have at least three good reasons to want Dorner dead (he’s killed three people, including a cop). I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they have a lot more reasons (dirty laundry) which they’d rather not make public.

    I’m certain “shoot Dorner on sight” isn’t written anywhere, but it’s obviously understood by every single LAPD cop. That’s how two old ladies got shot.

  34. We need to move quickly to ban these weapons of war and get them off of our streets! Oh, they are LEOs? They shot up a neighborhood? Oh that’s ok, they are trained!

  35. This should really be an IGOTD. There hasn’t been one in a while.

    Also, isn’t this the kind of crap this Dorner guy is after them for?

  37. O/T, I have a question about the ammo shortage. Given where prices have gone (supply & demand, dontcha know), it seems to me there’s a killing to be made (pardon the pun) by ammo importers. I’ve never used foreign ammo, but you’d think that importers would be breaking their necks getting ammo from wherever they can as fast as they possibly can.

    I can think of a few possible reasons why we haven’t seen a flood of imports yet:
    (a) There just happens to be a worldwide shortage right now
    (b) Importing is a lot more time consuming than I think
    (c) (insert favorite gov’t conspiracy here)

    Any I missed?

    • A significant portion of the common major ammo brands are foreign. Almost all steel case ammo (Wolf, Tula, Brown Bear, Herters, etc), Sellier & Bellot, Prvi Partizan, Aguila, Magtech, Fiocchi, PMC…

      (d) It isnt cheap to increase manufacturing capacity. And the present demand caused by a panic isnt likely to be sustained long enough to justify the capital investment.

      • I thought I made it clear I’m not talking about increasing mfr capacity. I’m talking about suppliers re-allocating existing supply to more profitable markets. Demand in the USA is way up, and thus prices are way up. If prices have not simultaneously increased around the globe, it would make financial sense for a supplier to “delay” that shipment for Zimbabwe and send it to the U.S.

        But as I said, maybe there are complications I’m not aware of.

        • I don’t have any numbers to back this up, but my gut feeling is that there is not a large domestic ammo market anywhere else in the world. The sport shooting community in Europe, Russia, Japan, China, wherever people might have enough money to buy large amounts of ammunition, is nowhere near the size of the US domestic market. This would be for a combination of reason, culture, laws, etc.

          Foreign militaries have not really been involved in a large amount of open conflict recently around the world, so I doubt there is much production for foreign governments either compared to the numbers seen for US military production.

        • The US is already the largest firearm related component consumer in the world.

          I would estimate that maybe 50% + of the worlds produced ammo is consumed here. can’t find any stats though.

  38. These LAPD Gestapo jerks think there so great shooting at civilians and expect all none Police to be disarmed and do what ever they say.

    If it wasn’t the fascist LAPD, a real Sheriffs Dept would have had these two cops heads on the public’s plate.

  40. 15+ hours from whenthe LA times article was posted and not a single comment there. Is this how people respond when something becomes “normal”?

    I can can’t even OC across my front yard with a swat team and 3 news stations arriving.

  42. The second the first cop got shot the ROE went out the window. Typical….

    They can justify their actions till the cows come home but they are still idiots with guns. That is the only fact here. Those last two sentences are the first and second ones the lawyers for the ladies will use in their opening statement in front of the jury.

  43. Neighbors hearing shots fired and two women screaming, rush to the windows and see 2 gangsters shooting up their paper delivery people! They grab guns and fire back at the bad guys, perforating their unmarked car and their bodies. They call 911 and ask for assistance for the injured women. Only then do they find out the 2 DRT’s are cops. The 8 neighbors who shot them are in for a long ordeal, but the community is calling them hero’s.

    That is how the story should have developed in a sane world.

  44. Truly incomprehensible. While we all hope the victims win the lawsuit lotto, the reality is that TAXPAYERS are the ones footing that bill. These “cops” should be in prison.

  45. As a fellow officer, I understand that everyone in LAPD is on high alert, but that does NOT excuse this level of incompetence! I would hope that criminal charges and a large civil suit are to come.

  46. Any thoughts on who will be interviewing/questioning the two victims? I certainly hope it is not the LAPD.

    • Does CA have a statewide criminal investigation agency? (Or does CHP also do criminal investigations?)

      Otherwise, it might be wise to have the FBI oversee the investigation…

      • …oh, yes…just bring in the FBI….that will raise the “Integrity Grade”…to beyond reproach,,,ha,ha,ha,ha! I can just see Effrem Zimbalist Junior….as the Agent in Charge scouring the crime scene to insure “justice” is done……! …..Ha,ha,ha,he,he,he,ha,ha!

        Regards,

        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

  47. OK, so let’s see what we have here for hard facts:

    1. The two women who were shot match Dorner’s description in no manner: Wrong sex, wrong ethnicity, wrong skin color, wrong height, wrong weight, wrong number of people in the vehicle… delivering newspapers.

    Oh, and wrong ages – both women are older.

    2. The vehicle matched in only one detail: it was a pickup. Other than that, the pickup was of the wrong make, wrong color, wrong plate.

    Now, from reporting this afternoon in the LA Times, we learn that it wasn’t just two cops who lit up these two women, it was “at least” seven. Seven cops and not one of them says “Hey guys, hang on a sec, that truck isn’t what we’re looking for?”

    Sorry. That’s it. Two cops in the same car, OK, I could see a rookie and a more experienced officer: the older officer starts lighting them up and the rookie just chimes in. But seven+ cops from multiple vehicles? Sorry. Now the entire LAPD is suspect. Seven cops are present to light up a couple of ladies in a pickup who are delivering newspapers, and not one of them says “Let’s turn a floodlight on them for ID?” No, they just go all Chicago style on them.

    Oh, and the people in the neighborhood are finding bullet holes in their houses, in their cars down the street, etc. The cops didn’t just light up that pickup. They hosed down everything downrange, too.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209,0,4414028.story

    An object the size of a pickup truck and they couldn’t keep their rounds on target, they just start sending rounds flying every which way downrange?

    As of now, I’m going to start pressuring people and organizations in the RKBA movement to cut ties with law enforcement. Between these attempts at second degree murder and the assaults on our civil liberties by police chiefs and assorted LEO mouthpieces, there’s no reason why any pro-gun or civil liberties group should be keeping company with people like this.

  48. And this is why civilians can’t be trusted with guns.

    If I were a slightly balding black man with a beard in California I would take a vacation in Canada until Dorner is duly executed by California LEOs. Lets face it, at this point Dorner could come out of his hiding place naked, in handcuffs, holding a white flag in his teeth and he is going to get shot 300 times. (Shot 300 times, shot at 3,000.)

    Maybe since our Emperor, Barrack the Great, Peace Be Upon Him, has declared he can execute American Citizens without trial, we can just smoke him with a Predator and save the innocent by standees from stray rounds.

  49. Monday I will be calling all 40 CA senate offices and asking a few questions:
    First, why do they want to make me a criminal and ignore ex post facto law, secondly what are the facts about CA shootings involving the guns they want to ban and last, how can they claim that I don’t need an AR pattern rifle when there is a trained lunatic on the loose in SoCal.
    I don’t expect to get anything intelligent from staffers…just as I did not when I made some calls asking why I would have to pay twice as much for bullets to pay for crime I have nothing to do with.
    We shall see.

  51. These animals attacked a vehicle that roughly matched the suspect description. They have only validated the claims being made against them. If I were one of those shot at, I’d be publicly calling for their execution. At a bare minimum they, and ANY officer not willing to condemn them has no business near a badge or a gun.

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