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You knew America’s Civilian Disarmament Industrial Complex would rejoin their full-throated blame-the-NRA chorus after a spoiled, sexually frustrated 22-year-old decided that murdering blond sorority girls was a better solution to his dating problems than opening a Tinder account. And the father of one of Rodger’s victims didn’t hesitate to place the responsibility for his son’s murder not on the maladjusted little bastard, but on what he called “craven” and “irresponsible” politicians and…the NRA. But the LA Times is now reporting that the three guns found in Elliot Rodger’s BMW were purchased legally. That means . . .

he’d jumped through all of the legal hoops – in California, no less — that “common sense” gun controllers have put in place. That, of course, includes background checks of which the NRA heartily approves.

Not that a fact like that will matter. Not when there’s political hay to be made and gun grabbers see another opportunity to throw up still more roadblocks to law-abiding citizens who only want the opportunity to protect themselves and their families. Citizens just like those Rodger gunned down in a hormone-induced rage.

Blather, rinse, repeat.

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      • Actually is approximately 43% killed by stabbing, 14% killed by vehicle and the final 43% by gunfire. Note no targeting of BMW or the knife manufacturer (s) yet. Blame a gun for everything, not the sociopath who committed the murders. We live in a hysteria driven world.

    • The guy SHOT 8 people. For some reason you have disregarded the victims that were not fatally wounded by gunfire? Odd. The MAJORITY of the violence this guy imparted utilized a FIREARM.

      • “The guy SHOT 8 people.”

        Yes he did… and he stabbed 3 to death and ran over 2 with his car.

        “For some reason you have disregarded the victims that were not fatally wounded by gunfire?”

        I didn’t see him disregard anyone. He just was pointing out an obvious fact. By your logic I could say that you seem to have disregarded the victims he ran over.

        “The MAJORITY of the violence this guy imparted utilized a FIREARM.”

        Yes… we get it, only those that were gunshot victims matter. The fact that a similar event happened in 2001 and the assailant used a car, or when a kid stabs 22 people, we are told that those victims don’t matter because a gun wasn’t used or they were saved because a gun wasn’t used; even though there are similar violent events where all the gunshot victims were wounded and not killed during the attack. We gun owners understand that anti-gun activists are only consumed with the word “gun” in the term “gun violence” while we gun owners are concerned with all “violence” (which is why we choose to carry a gun).

        Does it bother you in the slightest that the state with an “A” rating from the Brady Campaign and all it’s various parroted gun controls (like universal background checks, “assault weapons” bans, one gun a month purchasing requirements, 10 day waiting periods, mental health investigations through APPS and DROS, confiscation schemes, etc, etc, etc) failed to stop this event? Does it scare you that you are wrong and that “one more law” won’t stop people from carrying out mass murder? Has it even entered your mind that you are not really interested in saving lives, but instead you only care about the advancement of a political agenda?

  1. And yet the late Mr. Rodgers killed three of his victims with a knife. Didn’t he also kill another victim with his car? I will say this for one . last . time . The tools are irrelevant. The sick, disturbed violent person was the problem. He stabbed, shot, ran over, and ran into several people with his car. This was a violent rampage. And it is quite possible that a good responsible armed person could have stopped his rampage much sooner.

    Oh, and did I mention that spree killer was mentally sick and disturbed?!?!?!?

    • A knife can’t shoot 100 people in a minute, NRA knows that, don’t they? And do they care? No, they’re just glad that they sold him the guns!

      • Yes, the NRA sold him the guns. Because the NRA sells guns.

        Not to mention, if you can shoot 100 people in a minute, you’re name must be Chuck Norris Eastwood Van Damme.


        For the last time…the NRA is an organization of over 5 million REGULAR PEOPLE who fight for their right to keep and bear arms. The NSSF is the organization of INDUSTRY partners. You know, the ones who sell the guns. If you’re going to blindly place blame on the “gun industry”, at least take aim at the right organization.

        • I have to admit some of the comments on this post are so out there somewhere they would be truly funny if people did not actually believe what they post. A 22 strapped on your hip? Really? If all you strap to your hip is a 22, why bother? A 22 is for target practice when you can obtain ammo because the ammo is usually cheap, or in a rifle for small game. I mean seriously, Harper, you may want to join the NRA just to obtain an education about the topic. After all that is a majority of what the NRA promotes, gun education and safety, they do not sell guns, or if they do no member has ever been eligible to purchase one. No number of laws that take away the rights of law abiding citizens will ever stop some crazy person from obtaining and using one, if they cannot do it legally, they will either obtain one illegally or use some other method to kill. The difference in allowing the law abiding to own a gun could however prevent or reduce the potential victims.

        • Arguing with an anti is just like wrestling with a pig in it’s sty. After a while you realize that the pig likes it and you just end up smelling just like they do.

          There’s also probably a potential joke in there about bacon. But I’m too tired to think it up.

      • “A knife can’t shoot 100 people in a minute, NRA knows that, don’t they? And do they care? No, they’re just glad that they sold him the guns!”

        This is some derptastic stuff right here.

      • One of the real problems with the internet is that you can’t always tell when someone’s being purposely facetious for a bit of lulz and when they’re a complete idiot.

        • Yes, there is a crying need for a sarcasm or tongue-in-cheek font.

          Maybe we could all decide for instance that Comic Sans is sarcasm, the way we accept the convention that ALL CAPS is shouting…

      • Neither can any gun, Eintsein. Then again, facts aren’t your forte`.

        Secondly, the NRA doesn’t sell guns, but do any of you thoroughly bigoted, sexist, racist, anti-rights, anti-Humanist gun control advocates care about that? No. Of course not. Again, facts aren’t your forte`.

      • Please tell me what gun the average citizen can buy that can “shoot 100 people a minuet”

        For that matter… point to any gun… ANY GUN… than can actually- *accurately* shoot 100 people a minuet- that is man portable.

      • Interesting. I never knew the NRA was in the business of Retail Firearm Sales. I guess that is pretty much the same as MADD is in the business of selling liquor to drunk drivers… Oh. They’re not? I guess neither statement is true then.

      • Technically, the idiot may be partially right. The NRA does in fact sell knives.

        Of course I know the NRA is not to blame, this particular piece of garbage who felt his life was so bad he needed to hurt other people is to blame. The laws worked, the scumbag passed the checks AND a police interview. It is absolutely impossible to stop every deranged person who wants to commit murder from doing so.

      • Please tell me more of the guns the NRA sells. I wasn’t aware the NRA sold ANY guns, let alone ones that can shoot 100 people in a minute. I’m interested in seeing you try to back up your claims.

      • Condolences to those affected.

        The idea that people, in their grief would lash out at the NRA is a profound tragedy. An indication of a deep and malign prejudice and absolute lack of understanding of what the organization is. A prejudice nurtured by the media as it feeds on the destruction of peoples lives.

        Chasing false causes leads to nowhere.

        Keep the facts coming and be plain about the misrepresentation and exploitation of events.

      • I think Harper is arguing that the NRA is selling guns by promoting their ownership. Of course, I was never really motivated to put together an AR15, (There were other choices higher on my list) until Dear Leader told me he didn’t think I should have one. Now that is selling guns!

      • Why isn’t anybody catching the fact that his father made a movie all about people killing each other (children no less!!!). Seriously, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. His dad made his ill-gotten cash glorifying murder and his son ended up living it out. Parents, you reap what you sow…

        • And his father’s current wife is just a few years older than my granddaughter, and could pass as the mass murderer’s sister.

      • I’m tired of hearing that all of the gun grabbers say they want to take on the NRA as if it is some huge corporate lobbying group. The NRA is 5 million of your fellow citizens (mostly, but not all, old, fat, white guys – many of them vets). Recently, a politician in Pennsylvania was running ads in the PA gubernatorial democratic primary race stating the he was the “liberal lion” that would take on the NRA. Some governor he’d make – wanting to “take on” his fellow citizens. This is just outright discrimination against law-abiding veterans and old, fat, white guys.

        • Being an OFWG, but not a OFWV, on this Memorial Day weekend, I thank you for your service.

        • I’m a member of the NRA and neither myself nor any of the other members in my area (that I know personally) are old, fat white guys. In my area most members are young, hot white chicks!

      • And similarly, a gun has an awfully hard time stabbing 100 kids a minute. Or running over them. Even kids as soft and pliable as the current crop of unintended abortion survivors.

      • No a knife cannot kill a hundred people in a minute but a bomb can and is cheaply and easily made with ingredients that are not hard to get. We need to address the failure of our health care system in America that allows mentally ill people to slip through the cracks. We deserve to be safe from them and they deserve a better life than the hell that is mental illness. Stricter gun laws will not stop them acting out, helping them will.

    • I’ve been wondering a lot about what role the family may have played here, however unintentional. It takes barely a minute of looking at some of the videos and posts this guy made to go “what the hell is wrong with him? This dude needs some serious help.” Was the extent of his illness kept secret or downplayed for whatever reason by friends and family? Did they just not think he was capable of going this far? Was he just really good at fooling everyone close to him? I’m guessing it was some combination of the first and second…I have a really hard time believing NOBODY saw this coming. If you’re 22 with a Beemer and still can’t get laid, you’ve gotta be putting out some seriously weird and creepy vibes.

      • Too late to edit, but I just read that apparently his family was actually quite concerned about him…less than a month earlier they had asked authorities to check up on him, and deputies told the family they didn’t see any reason to take him in on mental health grounds (which isn’t surprising…they aren’t psychiatrists and also don’t have hours to sit around evaluating someone who’s being polite and seems normal enough). Seems like another case of “we knew he had issues but never thought it would come to this.”

      • According to a supposed forum post the perpetrator made, his parents found his youtube ranting a year ago and made him remove them.

        (his forum posts are linked below in the comments)

  2. Do 3 gun fatalities (plus the victim) make for a mass shooting under accepted law enforcement reporting criteria?

  3. And one more thing. The 10 round magazine capacity limitation did nothing to limit the spree killer since he was carrying three handguns (or was it four?) and something like 40 fully loaded magazines. For those of you who are new to the firearms world, having multiple handguns meant that Mr. Rodgers was able to fire 33 times before needing to reload. And if he had four handguns, he would have been able to fire 44 rounds before needing to reload. And even then reloading was at most a 2 second exercise.

    • If each magazine only had one clip he couldn’t keep shooting, now, could he?

      #mda @shannonrwatts #everytown #2016 #hy2 #safecities

        • Sweet I think that was my first moderated comment…. Though it really wasn’t bad.

      • “If each magazine only had one clip he couldn’t keep shooting, now, could he?”

        Not totally sure what you thought you just said. Did you mean “If each GUN had only one clip (sic)…)? So, we need a law that says only one mag/gun?

      • Magazines and clips aren’t the same thing, genius. And it wouldn’t have mattered if he had one or the other, and he would have gotten every single one that he could have ever have wanted. But, as is par for your course, facts aren’t your forte`. #NRA #SAF #GOA #NAGR #GRNC #2014 #stopMDA #guncontrolisnotsafe

      • “If each magazine only had one clip he couldn’t keep shooting, now, could he?”….

        What in the bejesus are you talking about? Do you even know? Are you some computer-troll sitting in a cubicle…? WTF?

        RJ O’Guillory
        Webster Groves – The Life of an Insane Family

      • Harper,

        Facts aren’t your forte either. A Clip and a Magazine are two different things, and they don’t always work together. A magazine actively feeds a firearm, by using kinetic energy. A clip loads a fixed or detachable magazine usually using gravity (if I remember the M1 is the exception to this rule). So 1 clip loaded into a magazine could be 10 cartridges being loaded at a time.

        The NRA doesn’t sell weapons. In fact, the NRA was founded in Queens New York City, near what is now Alley Pond Park, to teach accuracy and safety in the use of firearms. The NRA was the first organization to actually fight against racist and sexist laws concerning gun control.

        When you advocate for Gun Control, you advocate for subjugation. Then again Bloomberg was all for running everybody’s life.

      • To those of you commenting on this Shannon Watts made the comment about magazines having only one clip so they cannot be used more than once. It was her Stupidity he was commenting on!

      • Come on, now, that HAS to be a joke. It’s even phrased the way we would put it while cracking each other up. This person is funnin’ us, nobody is that stupid.

      • well, your right, each magazine holds 10 clips, and each clip holds 10 bullets. i think #MDA should really focus their efforts on clip size reduction and not worry about magazine sizes, clearly this crazy shooter had CA legal magazines, so the clip size is probably the next thing you should tackle.

        Everyone else, not one word…..

  4. Here it comes.

    Wait for it :
    “We must pass MORE LAWS! Clearly, the already stringent regulations just weren’t strict enough!”

    -The certain reaction on the part of the CA legislature.

      • Tell me one (1) which would make a difference in this occurrence. Because there is only one, encouraging more responsible citizens to carry guns, in order to oppose this manner of insane evil. Now, COMMENT MODERATED, answer THAT.

        • If he couldn’t have bought guns he couldn’t have done what he did. If the NRA didn’t keep trying to sell guns to the public who think they’re cops.

        • He could have bought the guns regardless of whatever laws were on the books, and you would not have even slowed him down one iota, either. ‘Specially not with #gunrunner #lelandyee in your midst. Oh, and you don’t get to characterize us, but we will call you out for what you are: a anti-rights tool.

        • Dear Haper,

          I’m glad your fantasy world is working out for you. However, in reality, where most of us lived, this murderer could easily has killed many people without ever once using a firearm. Does anyone recall Jack the Ripper using a gun? How about another massive piece of excrement named Timothy McVeigh? What about the recent incidents in China where maniacs have attacked school children with knives?? Someone who is motivated to kill others will find a way to.

        • Harper, if he couldn’t have bought any firearms there still would have been four people dead of non firearm related injuries. This guy would have killed people regardless if he had firearms or not. Laws would have not stopped him. You can outlaw all firearms, and destroy every last one, but it will not stop mass killings. What do you really have issue with? murder or firearms? If your scapegoat “assault weapons,” and “high capacity clips” are “banned,” and mass murders still occur, with or with out firearms, whats your next step? Will you simply stop caring? Or take your irrational, uninformed, “common sense” measures even further?

          Btw, don’t blame the NRA for firearm death’s, as it makes almost as much sense as blaming AAA for automotive deaths.

        • And I asked you to tell us a law. You rambled nearly incoherently and did no such thing. Was your diatribe supposed to mean “murderous lunatics are prohibited from purchasing firearms”? Already a law, with the NRA’s blessing. How about “murderous lunatics must kill without firearms”? He sure seems to have tried to comply. So what LAW do you propose which might have eliminated or mitigated this tragedy? Because ranting about new laws and the NRA kinda makes you appear stupid (which you are sure you are not) when you cannot name one such law or tell us how the NRA has prevented its implementation.

      • does this incident speak to you in that way?? that laws are too leanient?? in california its hard to even own a gun. let alone carry one. if this doesnt prove criminals dont obey laws. your too derpy for me to even argue.

        • What are you talking about? It is very easy to own a gun in California, even a handgun, as long as we are speaking generically. You decide you want a gun, you go to the FFL, pay for it, fill out paperwork and return in ten days. Other than the waiting period no more difficult than Arizona.

          Much is made of the Handgun Safety Certificate. This is not comparable to the difficulty of buying a handgun in North Carolina even, where you need a permit to purchase or CCW. Here there is only one place you need to go, your dealer. Basically the HSC amounts to a $25 tax to allow you 5 years of buying handguns before paying it again. You do not need anything to own a gun, only to buy, and it is barely an inconvenience.

        • Well, first you told us what was necessary to purchase a firearm, then went on to tell us something else was also necessary, I suspect we’d find more and more and more. And then begin on magazine clips and things that go up and (gasp) ammunition.

        • No, it is really not hard to own “a gun” If you want a non-rostered gun, or this or that particular thing, well I wasn’t addressing that

          With no knowledge of gun laws, I bought my first gun in the Bay Area. I went in, picked out a handgun, paid for it, including $25 for a handgun safety certificate yes, filled out some paperwork…the “test” for the HSC…well if you cannot pass it while drunk and unprepared, you probably had a lobotomy at some point. The whole thing to 15 minutes, most of that was filling out the 4473. Hence why I said the HSC amounts to a $25 tax.

          Came back in 10 days and had a gun. It is easier than Iowa or North Carolina or Nebraska, and at least 10 other states that require permits to purchase a handgun. Sure a CCW exempts you in many of these states (California too), but a CCW is harder to get than a CA HSC…that is like comparing the difficulty of walking to flying a helicopter.

          So yeah, “real difficult” (not). It simply is easy to own a gun…CCW is another issue, owning this or that particular gun is another issue.

      • Being a recent resident of CA for 6 years, and seeing how hard it was to own a gun (and having no chance to carry one), and all the legal contortions law-abiding citizens had to go through to utilize any semblance of the 2nd amendment there…

        You’re full of it. The NRA doesn’t control jack crap in CA, or anywhere really. A bunch of self-righteous pigs in Sacramento control that stuff, and that sure did plenty to stop Mr. Roger (or not).

        I’m glad I got out of there. I now live in a subdivision where the street names are almost all gun manufacturers, and a neighbor is flying the “Don’t Tread on Me” flag. I hear shooting up in the hills, it’s music to my ears. There’s virtually no crime, everyone knows each other, and we are not afraid and we are at peace in this area, very unlike the SF bay area where I lived just recently.

        So go ahead…ask for more laws. Get everything controlled by the progs in Sac. But just make sure you remember to take responsibility for the outcome.

      • “Need more laws that the NRA can’t control”

        If the mass murder wasn’t ominous enough. What sort of laws are you suggesting? Secret laws made in secret and enforced in secret?

        Pulling the “Blame the NRA” card is tragedy exploitation. There are plenty of question to put to the institutions that had a chance to intervene to make a positive outcome in these peoples lives. It is obscene that those questions would be deflected in some sort of bigoted anti-NRA hate.

        Any “control” the NRA has is through an open democratic process. That message of NRA omnipotence is specious, a David and Goliath Fallacy.

    • In one of the other Elliot Rodger threads here, the original “BREAKING:” one I think, someone asked about his height. In the bodybuilding forum he said he was 5’9″, 135 lbs.

      • Yeah, hardly physically imposing, and by Elliot Rodger’s own account never very athletic or well-coordinated. One wonders how, even armed with a knife, he, all by himself, managed to dispatch three other young men in his apartment. Sounds like something out of “The Bourne Identity,” doesn’t it?

    • @Harper

      All mothers love their children until they don’t.

      Do these mothers reflect badly on all mothers? No they don’t. Then why do people like you insist all gun owners are the same as mass shooters?

      Everybody is law abiding until they aren’t. That is part of the philosophy our country was founded upon.

    • Aren’t only about 5% of gun owners members of the NRA. And trying to be as polite as possible, what did the NRA have to do with any of this?
      Scapegoating – Singling out an individual or group for unmerited negative treatment or blame.
      It’s been happening since the Old Testament.

    • COMMENT MODERATED in answer to your ridiculous and meaningless comment #above, once each of the @100 million have killed six people, you will finally be free of #fear.

    • What a dumb argument. Sure, all people are innocent until they’re not.

      Blame guns, blame policy, blame laws, blame politicians, blame drugs , blame whatever you want until you are blue in the face. Flail about and do what you need to do to achieve whatever catharsis you want over the fact that you can’t control people and you live in a scary world where people can and always will be able to do bad things.

      It’s not the power of government or law or religion that keep people in check, it’s the fact that people are by in large good. That’s all that holds it together, the strength of individual will of millions of people you can’t monitor, assess, approve of, or control. And there are bad people among these masses of good people. OoOooo scary isn’t it? Delude yourself into a false sense of security, keep your mind occupied with simple excuses and stay busy with your crusade and maybe that terrifying reality won’t ever be something you need to face.

      Do you really think guns are the problem? He’d have killed more people if he ran his car through a few crosswalks, or lit up a milk jug of gasoline on a bus or a subway, like lonely frustrated crazy people do in other countries to commit mass murders on the order of 40+ victims.

      If you want to make a difference quit crusading and stop investing your energy in these non-solutions. Then take an interest in your community, get to know the people in it, and be a part of their lives. Then if you see someone in pain or acting crazy lend a hand, get them help, alert authorities, and do what you need to do.

    • NO they’re not. But then again, as is usual, facts aren’t your forte`. #gunrights #NRA #GOA #SAF #NAGR #GRNC #2014 #stopMDA

        • @Harper — Yes, me and my 214,439 fellow TTAG’ers will rep them. And speaking of toys, looks like YOUR boy Elliot, a #registeredDemocrat and #hillaryclintonsupporter, played with his toys, too. Did #gunrunner #lelandyee supply his? 😉 Only in a very bad way that we DON’T teach.

          Maybe you could net a real woman if you actually become a man and take responsibility for your own personal protection.

        • “Name calling , slander, and hyperbole is a sure sign that the other person has lost the argument and has nothing else to say. We see this all of the time.”

  5. Interested in reading the toxicology report on the murderer. That is, if it is actually made public. If they find pot, coke, heroin, etc., he lied on his 4473.

      • There will be a new push for mental health checks that will hurt vets. Just hope you never went to the VA or a doc for PTSD.

        • Not like the VA is doing much for vets with PTSD anyways. Just what they need, another reason not to seek help, and not get it anyways, if they do.

  6. Whenever talking about this with anyone, mention that in 2001, another disturbed entertainment industry child murdered 4 people by driving into a crowd. This guy stabbed 3 people, shot 3, and left a wake of run over people as well. This isn’t a gun problem it’s entitled rich kid problem.


    having watched his video, and knowing he was rich with a BMW, my thought was: buy some ass. seriously, he would have been better off getting someone to f**k his brains out, take her $ and leave rather than yap and yap and nag, etc. he would have noticed peace and quiet is a precious commodity

    • His Hollywood upbringing likely filled him with an unwarranted sense of entitlement.

      “Now son, we don’t pay for p***y. Only non-BMW drivers pay for p***y.”

      • I’m thinkin’ fool doesn’t start to cover it. Y’know, Harper, you should walk into your local police station and demand to be placed on the “prohibited” list for NICS, after which you will never be able to buy a gun, and if found in possession of one, sent to prison for 5 years. Show us you know what you are talking about, and that you mean what you shriek.

      • Uhh…. I’m still not sure if you’re trolling or not. But either way you DO realize that this isn’t Twitter…. right? Hash tags don’t work.

        • D’oh, fine! But you know I was only telling the absolute truth, though, and I can hedge my bets on that — and win.

      • Actually, man, if he walked into a police station, or at least the jail area, and saw what humanity is capable of producing, he’d probably crap two bricks and become catatonic.

        There’s a real world out there, and old Harper believes he’s not part of it. So, yeah, prohibited on NICS would serve both him (her?) and the rest of humanity.

      • Yeah but it’s expensive and the girls are ugly.

        Prostitution should be legal in all 50 states.

        Until we have realistic sex robots, it would be the simplest way to calm down some of these QQing wankers.

        • “Realistic sex robots”??

          We don’t even have the flying cars we were promised forty-plus years ago.

          Yeah but it’s expensive and the girls are ugly.

          A trip to Pahrump would have cost less than all that ordnance, and not everybody gets to do the Prom Queen their first time in the saddle. That’s the way life is Elliot.

        • I see your point.

          That said, I think part of the problem was this douchebag thought he was God’s gift to women and it was somehow their fault they didn’t like him.

          I find it funny (very dark humor) that even while showing us all what a “god” he is during his killing spree, he took down single digits.

          That isn’t very impressive in the world of spree killers these days. Shoot, 6 people dead is like your standard drunk driving accident.

    • Incredibly precious. I wish you would tell that to the Salvadoreans start mowing the complex at MY end, at 8:00 am weekly. I’m retired. I’m an insomniac. I sleep from 6 am to noon. When I can.

      Oh. With the world’s loudest mower. I’m pretty sure it’s louder than a 767 idling up.

      • Cheers Burke. I am recently retired and I am finding my sleep patterns are also morphing although my tolerance for gun grabbers is not.

  8. on that bodybuilding website, sorry, but 5 ft 9, 135 lbs? and him saying it was unjust a white girl picked an indian dude over hr? hear that shannon? rich white liberal kid whose parents were against guns.

    • I wasn’t that bad looking in college (those were the days), and had some beautiful women in my car at times. But all but one were just friends, and the other one is now my wife. It sounded like he was upset by a beautiful woman just riding with someone.

  9. you pay for pu**y whether it is cash on the dresser or a shopping spree, date night, engagement ring, etc. only question is it legal

  10. @dirk – Those were my initial thoughts too. Then as I watched the whole video I don’t think that would have done the trick. He actually expected women to want him for his charming personality and all around greatness. If you are paying for it it is fake and he didn’t want fake. The sicko actually appeared so narcissistic that he couldn’t figure out why women weren’t lined up for him.

      When you’re perfect in every way.
      I can’t wait to look in the mirror
      Cause I get better lookin each day.
      To know me is to love me,
      I must be a hell of a man
      Oh lord its hard to be humble
      But I’m doin the best that I can.

  11. They are all crazy in Kalifornia, I left there 25 years ago, I know what that state is. And as for that CS nut goes, looks a lot like, lack of parenting. That little CS is now going to us the Kalifornia system to spread his cowardliness. I say string him up and make an example of plick.

      • It must be tough to live your life afraid all the time, seeing “criminals” everywhere! That’s how the NRA keeps selling more guns.

        • @Harper — The only one who is afraid here is you. Well, you and your protected criminal class, anyway. The NRA doesn’t even sell guns, but go figure that facts aren’t your forte`.

          And yes, yes we absolutely laugh at you. Rightly so, too. Oh, and your unsupportable and indefensible fears of the ‘Old West’ never materialized and were never warranted, either.

        • Harper,

          What……….. the NRA sells guns? dude I so missed the boat on this one, what was I thinking all these years going into a gun shop to purchase, I could just have gotten them all from the NRA, thanks so much for the heads up.

        • @Harper

          Please provide a link to the NRA gun store you rave so much about. I can’t find it, and as a member, I’d like to get a discount on my next purchase.

        • Too much time and energy is being wasted on harper. Today is a time to remember all the men and women who “strapped in on” in defense of our republic. All gave some, some gave all.

        • aHA! I bet that’s where you buy those fast NRA guns that shoot 100 people in a minute!

        • You keep repeating this “NRA sells guns” thing, when you’ve been corrected. Either you’re ignorant, or you’re malicious. Of course, you might be ignorant and too prideful to admit you’re wrong and have no idea what you’re talking about, which makes you maliciously ignorant.

          I suppose in your mind the fact that I work on software that was used to create a commercial about cheese means I sell cheese. Or at least commercials. (I do like cheese and advocate its eating, so that must be doubly true!)

          But in reality, you’re just an astroturfer, and you are providing tons of fun. I’ve been playing bingo with your responses relative to Larry Correia’s internet arguing checklist:

          1. Skim until Offended
          2. Disqualify that Opinion
          3. Attack, Attack, Attack
          4. Disregard Inconvenient facts
          5. Make Shit Up
          6. Resort to Moral Equivalency
          7. Concern Trolling
          8. When all else fails, Racism!

          Harper, I’ll bet you’d just love Larry’s blog posts. You should try posting over there. He and his readers eat little harpies like you alive in the comments. 😉

        • Crazies do happen; this incident is a vivid illustration of that fact. There is also the question of freedom. I would prefer living in a society where at least ten percent of the citizenry were armed at any time, ideally openly, but it is a difficult target to reach.

        • Yep, you’re right, the NRA sell tons of guns.

          And we buy them by the truck load.

          Whine some more on the Internet, that learn us.

        • The gun companies pay the NRA for this.

          Gina, gun companies don’t pay the NRA. And what you are talking about is the “round-up” program which people, when ordering guns or supplies from companies such as Midway, voluntarily “round-up” their purchase to the next whole dollar amount and that money is given to the NRA. So if I buy a half dozen magazines and my total comes to $149.50, I can pay $150 and donate $.50 to the NRA. But it is ME donating it, not Springfield Armory or S&W or Midway.

        • The bulk of the NRA’s money comes in the form of contributions, grants, royalty income, and advertising, originating from gun industry sources, not just a measly round up program. Since 2005 the gun industry and it’s corporate allies have given between 20 million and 52.6 million to it through the NRA ring of freedom sponsor program.

        • Gina:

          You got documentation or is this just more bull squeeze?

          You folks really need to try harder. The level of your effort is really funny.

        • Look it up yourself. I only stick to facts on these forums. It does not take much effort to keep yourself updated on current events.

        • Cheap deflection, then. Pretty much expected.

          That’s not how it works. If you make a claim, it’s up to you to provide the data.

        • Here you go; How The Gun Industry Funnels Tens Of Millions Of Dollars To The NRA
          WALTER HICKEY JAN. 16, 2013,
          Via The Business Insider

        • Let us say for the arguments sake you have your numbers right. Even that the higher estimate of 52.6 millions over nine years is right. It makes about 5.84 mil per year.
          NRA has about 5 millions of dues paing members. So maybe the industry chipped in little over dollar per member. Members give about $20 or more each year…
          And don’t let me get started about Bloombergs $50 millions donated to fight against our rights.

        • Do we see criminals “everywhere”, Harper? No, not everywhere, but certainly they are present. And since most crime is opportunistic, crime does happen “anywhere.” Because of rulings requiring California to reduce its prisoner population, my town is overrun with homeless meth heads, people who feed their habits with car thefts, home and auto burglaries, armed robberies and muggings. If arrested, they are released the next day because there is no room in the jail to hold any but the most violent. And I live in a small town in a mostly rural area of the state. My wife is in a wheelchair, and therefore a helpless target. Am I paranoid? No, but I think it is reasonable to take reasonable precautions.

        • Harper: Projecting your insecurities upon others is not a rational argument. You exist to peddle and regurgitate only the blatant ignorance, irresponsibility and disinformation favored by your side. You are of a lesser species that can survive only in sheltered enclaves and the internet so I wouldn’t expect you to understand the concept of integrity or intellectual honesty. You are not worthy of debate and your mother should’ve swallowed. Is that clear enough for you?

      • #laughinginyourface.

        I live in one the safest urbanized areas on the continent. Perhaps only Toronto is safer. We have lots of guns here, concealed an open carry while across the Potomac where it is a gun free paradise crime is out of control. Go figure.

        • @tdiinva

          Yes, you live somewhere so safe that you need to strap a .22 on your hip! And you laugh at me? Ha! Where I live we don’t need to act like Yosemite Sam.

        • What do you think makes an area safe? A “strict gun control law”? A lot of signs proclaiming a “gun free zone”? or the awareness of those who would think about committing violence that a swift, certain, and severe reaction to their violence could leave them dead?

        • Yes, you live somewhere so safe that you need to strap a .22 on your hip! And you laugh at me? Ha! Where I live we don’t need to act like Yosemite Sam.

        • Mr. Harper

          I hope you have some honest to God opinions on something instead of spouting ignorance. If you want to have an actual conversation so be it. But please TRY to understand the basic functionality of a gun. Or gun safety. Or your opponents. You, and everyone else, has an obligation to do so.

          If you WANT to have this conversation I have no problem talking to you. Otherwise your just a troll.

        • @David

          If you ever learn the difference between “your” and “you’re”, I’ll have no problem talking to you.

        • @Harper — Evidently, David did use “your” correctly (as opposed to “you’re” which he did not). But, then again since facts aren’t your forte` all you can ever do is lie and condescend to your intellectual superiors: namely, us.

        • You know Harper, if you and your bunch had helped him score some tail, this never would have happened. But no, you anti everything groupies are too busy with your agenda to see the problem, mental health. Then again, you might not suffer from insanity, but enjoy every minute of it.

        • From the high level of immaturity and the lack of analytical skills, I think a college Sophomore “campus activist” is more likely.

        • I’ll admit it, I made mistake. Are you seriously going to nit-pick my grammar when you get basic facts wrong? Can you admit your mistakes on this thread? Do you even want to be informed? Maybe if you got to know some gun owners you wouldn’t be so quick to judge.

        • Harper, I doubt anyone on this site would strap on a .22. Most would probably use a 1911. Do you know what a 1911 is? Anyway if you are really trying to make points, you should at least have some knowledge of the subject.

        • a .22? Yeah, this kid doesn’t know what he’s on about. Just stringing together gun sounding words.

        • Country deejays knows that I’m an outlaw, They’d never come to see me in this dive, Where bikers stare at cowboys, who are laughing at the hippies, Who are praying they’ll get outta here alive……

        • Um….unless you’re possibly talking about an oversized target pistol for training purposes, the notion of “strapping” a .22 to anything, let alone one’s hip, is fairly preposterous. I’m sure you’re just spouting off something you heard somewhere, so you don’t realize how silly you sound. .22’s make nice little pocket pistols, including for the little coin pocket in the right front pocket of jeans, but they aren’t monster gangsta gats by any means. Good grief.

        • tdiinva, Harper will claim it is just a coincidence, or perhaps an evil NRA plan to deceive us. You wait!

  12. Good thing universal background checks caught this guy- or not. Well good thing the hi-capacity magazine ban prevented this “mass shooting”- or not. Well that mandatory waiting period to purchase firearms sure slowed him down- or not.

    On another note, an armed citizen might not have been the best person to return fire at the time, but a prepared citizen may have been able to render life-saving aid to other victims before they succumbed to their wounds. One bystander was unable to render aid to the late Chris Martinez because “she was too upset to administer CPR.” Everyone that carries (and everyone in general) should also be prepared to provide first aid to themselves and others. Because when seconds count, blah blah blah.

  13. Ok folks, we are dealing with someone who was sent by MDA to post here. All he knows is the talking points he has been given. You have to get him out of his box and he will shut down.

    Harper: You and all gun control advocates support criminals because they know there will always be a Leland Yee to supply them with guns. You know very well that criminals will always get guns and if you disarm the population then they will helpless. Just ask the disarmed citizens of America’s inner cities. Crime is your preferred method of social control.

    • You don’t get it: you’re not shutting down #safecities #everytown #hy2 #2016: haven’t you been watching the news!?

      What’s getting shut down are the NRAs gun sales. Buy your toys while you can.

        • Nowhere near you gun nuts! Now they can go to Chipotle and Starbucks? You nuts are losing!
          Keep an eye out for #hy2 #safecities

        • But its totally ok that theyre doing a line of coke at this very moment at some rave right?

        • Sorry, dude but you can still carry in Starbucks and Chipoltle. They expressed a preference that you not bring your guns but they didn’t actually ban them. The problem is that everybody including criminals now think there are no law abiding gun owners at these chains. Jack-in-the-Box expressed the same sentiments and now they are being robbed. These establishments used to be safe because criminals don’t go rob places where someone may shoot back. Neither do spree shooters. You have made these restaurants unsafe. Hope you get first hand experience.

        • @Harper — Even though it’s you racist nutjobs that got kicked out of Staples HQ and completely fabricated the Staples “victory” in the first place? Sorry, but we can still carry at Starbucks and Chipoltle, too, by the way. So, uh, yes they will be quite close to us — and there is absolutely nothing you or anyone else can think, say, or do about it.

          Might as well get used to it already, Harpie, ’cause we are winning.

        • “Now they can go to Chipotle and Starbucks?”

          Tomorrow, I’m going to conceal carry, not one, but two pistols, legally, I might add, and I will make it a point to visit both of these places… Why?

          1: Neither posts the proper legal signage, so legally I’m in the clear to carry concealed weapons.
          2: Because I know that it will make you feel all warm and fuzz inside.

      • What you don’t seem to grasp is that we are laughing at you.

        Not with you.

        We are mocking you and the contemptible, shear stupidity and utter loathsomeness of your every remark.

        I spent this morning at a Memorial Day ceremony celebrating the lives of men and women who gave their lives for something. And…your bleating, crying wishful thinking of the world was not it.

        They gave their lives for a country that believes in personal responsibility and the courage to stand on your own two feet.

        So take your horse feces somewhere else, you contemptible sub-insect. When life teaches you what the word “honor” means and you grow up into a thinking human being, maybe someone here will give you the time of day.

        Until then, rest easy in knowing that the men and women in this world with the courage to fight for not only their lives but for yours as well see you worthy of less respect than what we clean out of our cat’s litter box or scoop into a plastic bag for our dogs.

        Is that clear enough for you? Or, do you need it in single syllables with cartoon pictures?

        • I didn’t assume jack squat about you except what you display here.

          Did I say you were never in the Air Force?

          What I said, since you do seem to need the monosyllabic version is this:

          You have no honor, sir.

          Okay, so one two syllable word. Sorry. It’s an important one, though.

          (Helper hint: Lying about the NRA selling guns is dishonorable. Using this tragic incident to promulgate lies to further political agenda is dishonorable. Etc. And, Etc., just for effect).

        • Yeah, a computer geek which you could have looked up. Where was your last duty station? Mine was 3C915. I will leave what that means as exercise for you.

        • @Excedrine

          Sure, I’ll just post my driver’s license along with it.

          Stalker much? I found exactly what I expected to here.

        • @Harper — So, it really didn’t happen, then. Got’cha. Figured as much, too. You wouldn’t know a stalker from a hole in the ground anyway, quite frankly. Besides that, you’re not worth anybody’s time by any stretch of the imagination so you can go ahead and quit flattering yourself now, thanks.

          And, no, we found exactly what we expected to find in you: a liar and a racist; not the other way around.

        • Calling BS on the troll’s AF service. He/she/it wouldn’t have stumbled over clips and mags. Even zoomie IT warriors had to do weapons training.

        • I retired from the AF as a pilot with 300-odd COMBAT hours, and I don’t remember meeting anyone like you. And I thought the mental standards were higher than that. I don’t believe it.

        • So Harper was in as a Level 1 Helpdesker. I’ll bet it qualified on an assault screwdriver, and called it’s OIC “Bob.” Probably stationed at a hardship base like Langley. Sorry, no credibility deserved.

      • Responds to facts with a talking point.

        Your gun control hero Leland Yee is a gun runner.

        Racists like you only react when white kids get killed. How many black and Latino kids were shot and killed to today in California. You don’t know because your are a racist who wants those black and Latino kids dead. Gun runners like Leland Yee are your heroes because they take guns out of the hands of honest citizens and give them to the Crips and the Bloods to kill minorities.

        You are just as racist as the KKK who wanted minorities to be helpless so they could lynch them. I bet you would look good in a white hood.

        Again I say RACIST go away.

        • If you want to find a racist stop by the nearest mirror. You will find him there. Gun control was racist in 1870 and it is racist today. You hate black people and you think Latinos are there to mow you lawns, clean your houses, sell you a Big Mac and maybe watch your kids. Progressives like you have always been racists and always will be. I bet you don’t care much for Jews either.

        • I’ve had it up to here with talking points. Thank you for mentioning those.

          p.s. Racist oafs also.

      • This is directed towards our new forum friend and his ilf, because he is certainly displaying the trait mentioned in this quote:

        “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

        ― Harlan Ellison

  14. He just lost his son dude. People in his position are going to be even less logical than even the most illogical person. Simmer down.

    • No friggin’ way, he’s fair game, he came out using the Liberal media to attack law-abiding gun owners injecting the NRA into the mix (Note: I’m NOT an NRA member). Woe be unto those who seek to limit or deny us our 2nd Amendment Rights. Just like MDA’s Shameless Twats, DICK (Richard) Martinez, MUST be vilified and held to account for what he said, NO physical violence, just destroy him online.

      • SMH – You don’t attack people that are in pain and are lashing out. You want to rip on CNN. Fine. They deserve it. You want to rip on a parent the day after he lost his son, go join the emo squad over at MDA because it’s not logical to wish pain and suffering on other people unless you’re another Harper account.

        • DICK Martinez injected himself into the debate the minute he stepped in front a camera and attacked the American way of life, he is the enemy, instead of quietly mourning his son he made a public statement on firearms and the NRA thus MUST be held to account. Anyone who doesn’t think this supposed grieving father wasn’t paid for what he said is deluding themselves as it was right out of the anti’s carefully prepared script, we’ve all heard this propaganda before.

          This is a “war”, the anti’s desire is to eliminate ALL firearms no matter the type, just how much more are you willing to surrender?

        • “This is a “war”, the anti’s desire is to eliminate ALL firearms no matter the type…”

          And you’re helping them with this crap. We don’t have sympathy with the media. They do. We don’t have sympathy in the educational institutions in the country. They do. Someone has probably copied your posts and are ready to paste them in some article that Harper phishing for them. Congratulations, with friends like you, who needs enemies?

        • Go ahead sell your firearms, take some round steel stock and pound it down the barrels, you don’t have the intestinal fortitude for the fight and don’t deserve them.

          We cannot allow them, the anti’s, their front groups, their willing stooges (family members of victims), or their media allies to succeed and control the narrative.


          The 2nd Amendment means what it says and “Shall NOT Be Infringed”!

        • NYC2AZ…again…I don’t believe it. No way.

          It’s a troll…maybe using the name of a vic’s family. No way is a grieving parent spending this night trolling a gun blog.

          Surely you don’t believe that, do you?

        • @JR

          I’m replying to Unapologetic American. His original post I was replying to is gone. He’s either another troll for the other side pretending to be “one of us” or he’s a fool… but I repeat myself.

        • Those that disagree with my assessment of opportunist DICK Martinez just what do you suggest? Are you willing to allow him to shill for the anti’s on every major (read: Liberal) media outlet for months to come and remain unchallenged? My first question: “is the old man is in the USA ‘legally'”.

          This piece of fecal matter decided rather than mourning the loss of his son and making funeral arrangements he would (likely for financial gain) instead make a statement against law-abiding firearms owners and the largest group supporting them. DICK (Richard) Martinez is 2014’s Cindy Sheehan (Code Pink) and 2011’s Neil Heslin (Sandy Hook deadbeat dad), he MUST be treated as such.

          What do you think comes next? I’ll tell you, just like in the UK DICK Martinez will appear before state and Federal committees tearfully recounting being told of his son’s death, Democrats will then push for limits on ammo sales and the number of magazines one may possess never mind reducing already ridiculous magazine capacity as we’ve seen in N.Y., N.J., Ct, etc. It will NEVER end unless we defeat them once and for all and the way to do that is to destroy their messengers. I’m kinda hoping like Sandy Hook’s Neil Heslin (seen him lately?) that DICK (Richard) Martinez has felony convictions.

          We can’t forget to pounce upon every news website that joins in the anti-gun hysteria, remind readers and reporters/editors that three (3) were stabbed to death and others were killed and injured when the perpetrator used a car as a weapon of mass destruction.

    • Are you kidding?

      He lost his kid in this shooting and his time of grieving is posting on an Internet blog site?

      No way. I refuse to believe that.

      I lost a family member that I knew was dying for months, and when it did finally happen, I was in no way shape or form even thinking of the ‘Net.

      So, forgive me if I call “BS” on that notion. Maybe it’s someone else posting in his name. But no way on earth do I buy someone who lost a family member this recently posting this stuff (hashtags and twitter speak…really?) with this regularity.

    • Truth. How long would one of us last on MDA’s website/facebook if we were posting dissenting views? Usually we get deleted and blocked within a minute.

      • Harper gets to speak his mind (or lack thereof) here. We get unconditionally booted from antigun sites as soon as we speak an opinion that doesn’t jive lock-step with their talking points. That’s called tolerating the opposition. Tolerance from the left? Nonexistent.

    • Well yes we do. I’ve “moderated” the flame wars. No ad hominem attacks allowed, from any commentator.

      • Pretty sure he meant you don’t delete posts with contrary opinions like MDA does on their FB page.

  15. Please stop feeding the troll everyone. These are some of the worst instances of Poe’s law I have ever seen.

  16. I have six guns fully loaded and all 6 firing simultaneously can’t shoot 100 people. Unless of course a deranged lunatic is pulling the trigger. Funny how he was only stopped when a good guy with a gun showed up. Then he did the world a favor and ended his pathetic life. If you want to blame someone, blame the parents for never saying no, and for spoiling the little punk to the point that he thought he deserved everyone’s love and affection.

  17. Ok, fun is over. I don’t think banning paid trolls, and believe me this Harper character is on the MDA payroll, violates any norms of a free exchange of ideas. He/she/it is engaging in a form of computer network attack and should be treated as any form of malicious code.

    • Hell, pay me and I’ll argue with you guys!… only fat racists white guys with little dicks care about their constitutional rights! Do it for the white children! Pass common sense oppression! Ok, send me a check Shannon. #MDA #hy2 #2016 #gots2getpaid

  18. Harper is the funniest guy on here! Single clip magazine, stop it, you’re too funny! Just thank god he didn’t have a 30 caliber clip on him like Kevin De Leon loves to talk about 😛

  19. Last comment for the night and it will be a serious question for Mr. Harper.

    Given that 50% of Roger’s victims were killed with a knife do you also think knives should be band as well? Just to make it crystal clear I am not bating you. I really want your opinion.

    Note to Robert: why are my posts appearing in the middle of the thread?

  20. Harper. Let me be blunt here. I don’t know or much care who or what you are. If you don’t wish to own or touch guns out of some absurd fear for your safety, that is fine. And if you think that passing gun control laws over and over and OVER again is somehow going to cure what ills this country, then I thank you for your opinion. But the moment you actually start getting your asinine laws passed is the moment I’m going to tell you to bugger the fuck off and leave me alone. That’s all I ask, really. Whether you think so or not, more laws are not going to help. Jesus Christ, are you really that naive? Maybe you are!

    So, I’ll say it one more time, slow and simple so you can actually understand it. LEAVE US ALONE. It might come as something of a suprise to you, but guns are not actually an issue of public safety in this country. Now you might be thinking “but how can that be?” Well, pretty simple really – the vast majority of gun crime is committed by urban African-American ‘youths’ against other African-American ‘youths.’ Once you get out of those particular areas in question, the risk of gun crime as such drops precipitously, and even MORE precipitously as you get out of the cities and into the countryside altogether.

    In other words it’s an urban vs. rural culture war. But it’s entirely unnecessary. I’ll also be blunt about this as well: It is NOT racist to state that gun violence is largely a matter of demographics. That’s another thing your kind needs to get over. Maybe it’s because you’re just not able to grasp the concept of personal responsibility and so believe that you need the state (police, government) to provide for your safety. Which is not humanly possible.

    And that’s what it all boils down to, really, You either decide that you can provide for your own personal safety, or let the government provide at least the illusion thereof. But I ask that you must not be telling me what to do.

    I also wouldn’t advise starting a civil war, either. That won’t work out so well, for me or you. More likely you. But it sure seems like you folks want one. If you do, then by all means keep this up and see what happens. Now you think about that and have a good night.


    • heads up RF, still awaiting moderation here. Feel free to take it or leave it, but I’m not changing a darned tootin’ word.


    • You are exactly right. The reason this story is making such a splash and the MSM ignores all the murders in Chicago and similar places is because it is rare to see this violence outside of the few war zones in America. They ignore blacks murdering blacks and gang violence. Anything outside of this is news, and rare.

    • Half the comments are out of order by the looks of it, probably due to some deleted and orphaned posts. My previous post (she instead of a he) somehow got stuck in the middle of the list about 3 posts down from my first rant (which is awaiting moderation btw). Too bad about the flamefest but that’s what happens when a solipsolistic (sp?) woman from MDA wades into the discussion and stirs up the pot.


  21. Just found this:

    “According to the LA Times, the guns he used—two Sig Sauer p226 model handguns and a Glock 34—were legally purchased from federally licensed dealers and were registered to the killer, who after a shootout with police ended his own life with a bullet to the head.”

  22. Forgive me if I missed the post in question, but I’m reasonably sure that Harper is a she, not a he, and almost certainly not related to anyone involved in the massacre at Santa Monica. As someone else noted already, almost certainly an MDA member sent over to stir the pot. That is all, you may carry on now.


    • Not sure about the gender (Harper probably isn’t either!), but you need to consider whether Shannon would pay a male troll. IOW, I suspect a man impersonating a woman. Or, at least equally likely, a little boy impersonating a little girl. (money) for the children!

    • Sorry self-pitying worthless punk. Girls weren’t attracted to him because he was a pitiful, pathetic, worthless punk. A pathetic punk that thought girls should throw themselves at his feet? Pathetic.

      • Well, yeah, I guess they should. Because he drove a Beemer.

        That Daddy probably paid for, of course. But that’s besides the point.

        “Look at this Beemer!”

        • No, his mom did (parents are divorced). He said his mom should have gotten it sooner as there is a status hierarchy of cars.

  23. There’s no one to blame but the parents and police for not doing what they needed to do, so they blame the NRA. Both the parents and police couldn’t take any responsibility for this lest they might feel guilty for a second and rethink their entire modus operandi in every aspect of their life/operation. It’s a simple coping mechanism. You see it most often in children.

  24. Harpers a troll, and a somewhat irrational one at that. My guess is he is part of the same goofy PUAH group the Santa Barbara nut was involved in, or some other self-inflated group of geeks who have somehow found a sense of self-importance wrapped up in the UN’s safe cities silliness.

    If I am getting the allusions, Harper believes the future involves living in a world run by Big Brother. You wont need to defend yourself, because someone else is making you safe with technology. Riigggghttt…

  25. UA said: “Those that disagree with my assessment of opportunist DICK Martinez just what do you suggest? Are you willing to allow him to shill for the anti’s on every major (read: Liberal) media outlet for months to come and remain unchallenged? My first question: “is the old man is in the USA ‘legally’”.”

    You attack the message, not the messenger.

    UA said: “This piece of fecal matter decided rather than mourning the loss of his son and making funeral arrangements he would (likely for financial gain) instead make a statement against law-abiding firearms owners and the largest group supporting them. DICK (Richard) Martinez is 2014′s Cindy Sheehan (Code Pink) and 2011′s Neil Heslin (Sandy Hook deadbeat dad), he MUST be treated as such.”

    He is mourning the loss of his son… in his own way; and the media is much obliged to get both sides riled up over his emotional outbursts. You seem to have fallen for it as well.

    UA said: “What do you think comes next? I’ll tell you, just like in the UK DICK Martinez will appear before state and Federal committees tearfully recounting being told of his son’s death, Democrats will then push for limits on ammo sales and the number of magazines one may possess never mind reducing already ridiculous magazine capacity as we’ve seen in N.Y., N.J., Ct, etc.”

    Sure he will. And when he asks for an assault weapons ban, you point out that rifles weren’t used in this attack. When he pleads for universal background checks, you point out the CA already has UBC’s. When he requests mental health examinations for all gun owners, you point out that he was under doctor care and visited by the police and didn’t get flagged by California’s numerous over-reaching law enforcement schemes. This particular crime is the perfect example of the absolute failure of gun control. Point that out at every turn.

    UA said: “It will NEVER end unless we defeat them once and for all and the way to do that is to destroy their messengers. I’m kinda hoping like Sandy Hook’s Neil Heslin (seen him lately?) that DICK (Richard) Martinez has felony convictions.”

    No. You don’t use ad hominems. The other side does, because they can’t defend the fact that all their the various gun control schemes, that they enacted, failed.

    UA said: “We can’t forget to pounce upon every news website that joins in the anti-gun hysteria, remind readers and reporters/editors that three (3) were stabbed to death and others were killed and injured when the perpetrator used a car as a weapon of mass destruction.”

    Mostly agree. Use that. Attack the media and their double-standard hypocrisy. But the “weapon of mass destruction” line is just as dumb as when they use it.

    UA said: “Go ahead sell your firearms, take some round steel stock and pound it down the barrels, you don’t have the intestinal fortitude for the fight and don’t deserve them.”

    ^You’re sounding very much like those you claim to oppose here.^

    UA said: “We cannot allow them, the anti’s, their front groups, their willing stooges (family members of victims), or their media allies to succeed and control the narrative.”

    And the more you publicly use ad hominems toward victims/victims families, the more you play into the media’s narrative and how they want to portray gun owners.


    It is clear and it will continue to be clear by using logic over emotional drivel.

    UA said: “The 2nd Amendment means what it says and “Shall NOT Be Infringed”!”

    Sure it does. But if you can’t see that you are hurting your own cause here, I have to question if you’re really pro-gun rights.

  26. Harper,
    Your own Obama Federal Bureau of Statistics states that gun crime has reduced by 40% in the last 20 years. That means when concealed carry laws went into place, gun violence went down. 9 million CCW holders, and a severe drop in gun violence.

  27. He bought the guns legally, just like all the politicians wanted with the laws in place and bad things happened. Bad things are going to continue to happen and there is NOTHING anyone can do about it. Crazy people do crazy things.

  28. Just an interesting observation for everyone here. The Everytown for Hun Safety Facebook page has not been deleting posts. There are a lot of us who are posting there trying to refute some of the absurd claims the group and their followers are making. The vast majority of pro-gun posts are intelligent, thoughtful and polite, while the posts by the majority of people who disagree with us are vile, ignorant and hateful. However, at least they haven’t been deleting and banning people like Shannon Watts’ page has (and I SO BADLY want to put a ‘t’ in front of her last name for some reason…). I’m not saying that the zealots will listen to reason, but please feel free to post on the Everytown page and keep it civil and proper so we can at least show that we are better people.

  29. I’m not usually this self-indulgent but I want to repost something I wrote in response to this event. I’m as tired as anyone of hearing about murder and multiple murders but I also delight in reading about citizens who defend themselves so they can continue on with their life. For me the issue is not Elliot Rodger’s financial status, his parent’s political views, the response from the organized gun grabbers or California firearms regulations.. The issue is why do I believe the ability to defend myself with a gun is a better way to live my life than to disarm everyone (just pretend it could be done) and cede my welfare to a government..

    I find myself tempering my usual OFWG reaction. I know several families with children, usually young men, who seem similar to this person although they have not committed murder or multiple murders. In my opinion the therapist’s are useless although in reality all they can do is recommend a treatment regimen, diagnose the condition and prescribe medication that the patient usually stops taking. When I say they are useless it is my frustration coming out. I really mean there is no cure. The police cannot do anything until a law is broken. In the same vein a family cannot have an adult family member committed unless the adult agrees or unless the court intervenes.

    I believe there should be no constraints on the second amendment. I believe we should be able to buy a gun, unburdened, from any one or any business. I believe we should be able to purchase fully automatic guns. I believe convicted felons should be able to purchase, own and carry a gun upon release from prison. I also believe there a people who will purchase a gun and will use it to commit murder for the reason of personal gain, anger, revenge, passion, entertainment or in the case at hand a train of thought that probably no one on Earth can understand. I weigh the risk that these people pose against the known risk, recognized by the authors of the Bill of Rights, of the evolution of many governments where an elite group took the rights of the masses and made life and death decisions for the masses. I’ll accept the risk of my equal being a deadly threat. I will not accept the risk of the government deciding how much protection they will give or how much liberty they will take.

    • What, you mean like no INFRINGEMENT? My god, the streets would run red with blood, every day we’d have the gunfight at the OK corral, over and over. What are you thinking? //sarc

  30. So this time a psycho stabs 3, runs over 1 with his car & shoots 2 victims. Why does this happen only in the States ? I recon some of your kids are the problem, not the guns, or knives or cars. This doesn’t happen in other countries where we have guns and knives and cars. Maybe you should check your drinking water.

    • Strong talk for someone from the country with the murder rate that is about seven times that of the US. Perhaps you need to check YOUR water.

    • Harper’s, as well.

      But seriously, I think you are quite right – some of our kids have got very serious issues. Most are still pretty good, thankfully – a lot more than I give them credit for sometimes.


    • Only the US? Seems to me that Zimbabwe, Sudan, Nigeria and a whole lot of other places with frequent wholesale slaughter are right in your neighborhood. I could link to these, but it would take all day.

      The only real comparison I can see is the fact that most of Africa, Asia, the UK, even Australia suffers from the same disease as found in a few parts of the US: ordinary people are mostly prohibited from carrying effective tools to defend themselves, so criminals (official and free lance) can enjoy a smorgasbord of helpless victims.

      Disarming more potential victims just doesn’t seem to be much of an answer to that.

    • I seem to recall your police settling a labor dispute by machine-gunning the unarmed strikers. Now that’s what I call sensitive negotiation. How’s the Kool Aid taste?

  31. Hey Harper!
    I’m reading your’s comments here.
    It is like reading Comedy Central.
    But the sad thing is you ain’t funny!!!
    Are you a asinine twit or a English wanker?
    Don’t tell me Harper you try to find the trigger on the knife that can shoot 100 people in under a minute.
    Harper if a man wants to kill he’s going to kill he don’t need a gun to do it.
    Okay Harper here is some education you need.
    A firearm, bow & arrows, crossbows, swords, knives, vehicles, kitchen utensils & pots & pans, garden tools, axes, machetes, carpentry tools, certain office supplies, a few things from the bathroom, also sticks & stones.
    These & other items like these are just items, nothing more.
    If you got enough hatred & you look at an item & say to it: go hit him, go stab him, go shoot him, go run him over.
    Those items will not move, unless you are Darth Vader.
    All these items except for the sticks & stones were manufactured by man.
    For the sole purpose of transportation, safety, construction, feeding, hunting, & protecting.
    What makes these items dangerous, is only one thing.
    Your mind, it’s the only weapon we as human beings have.
    So your mind + a item = a force to be reckoned with.
    But you have to also add a few other thing to this equation.
    Soul, love, compassion, Honor
    Now we can add:
    honor= A true protector of the people, & if you go the other way you are the destructor of mankind.
    I am going to harp on you harper, show me where the NRA sells guns?
    Show me please!!!!! Where???
    I can tell by the way you talk you were never in the military & if you were it was short term.
    You are a man of no honor, respect, or education.
    You are a man who has been hurt by someone & you have hatred in your heart, & for this I-PItty you.
    Also I did not think cretins like you could reproduce, that’s sad to hear.
    Maybe in the future I can take you to an NRA weapons safety course, so I can get a refresher course and you can get properly trained on handling a firearm.

  32. Too much time and energy is being spent on harper. Today is a time to remember all the men and women who “strapped it on” in defense of our republic. All gave some, some gave all.

  33. “This death has left our family lost and broken,” said the father, Richard Martinez. “Why did Chris die? Chris died because of craven irresponsible politicians and the N.R.A. They talk about gun rights. What about Chris’s right to live? When will this insanity stop?”

    How about some empathy and/or sympathy for the six innocent dead?

    • And actually, Chris died because he put a round into his head to prevent himself from being captured. What an outstanding character.

  34. Guns purchased legally – Yes, and I did the math:

    Numbers according to the press conference last night….
    3 Sig P226 @ ~ $869 = $2607
    1 Glock 34 = $635
    34 10-round Sig mags (minus 2 each with gun) 28 @ ~ $40 = $1120
    7 10-round Glock Mags (minus 3 with gun) 4 @ ~ $30 = $120
    400 rounds plus 9mm = ~ $160

    Total purchases = ~ $4642.00

    Not bad for a kid that did not have a job. That’s one hell of an allowance!

    • To adapt Harper’s statement (Robert Goodloe Harper, not the MDA robot posting here) – “Thousands for ‘revenge’, not one cent for prostitutes”.

    • JAS, you’re a little off on your math. He paid about $700 for his Glock 34 from Goleta Gun and Supply. His Sig P226 was $1,100. He only stated how much he paid for his first Sig, but we might can assume subsequent purchases were the same price range.

      He got money from his relatives who kept sending it to him for “living expenses.” He kept a $5,000 minimum on hand so nothing would destroy his plans.

        • He’s been planning this attack for over a year. In late 2012 is when he first decided to kill all these people. That’s when he bought the Glock 34. Slowly he began developing the plan and buying what he needed to accomplish it. He first planned on making the attack in November 2013, but that got changed to April 26, 2014. That got changed again to May 24, 2014.

          Actually, many less people ended up dying than he planned for. He was also going to kill his step-mom and little brother. He was jealous of his little brother Jazz and did not want him to become more famous than him.

  35. It’s not the NRA’s fault. It’s Hollywood’s fault. This young man’s father made millions off of a movie franchise that glorifies people killing each other with a diverse series of weaponry (such as his car, knives, guns, etc.). All he was doing was living out his father’s sick and twisted imagination.

  36. Another tragic shooting. I am going to try very hard not to rant about the gun control advocates who will be coming out of the woodwork on this. Let me just say this first of all. I can’t imagine the grief a parent must be going through after losing a child to a senseless mass murder by a mentally ill or just plain sick individual. But every article I’ve read on this shooting has stated “He was carrying three semi-automatic handguns, all of which he obtained LEGALLY.” Why do they state this? Because they want to try to get the laws changed. Did they mention the knife he used to stab 3 people was obtained LEGALLY? Did they mention the vehicle he used to run over several pedestrians was obtained LEGALLY? Nope. One victim’s father has already come out and blasted the NRA. Again, my deepest sympathies to the friends and families of the victims, but please don’t blame guns. I respect people’s right to choose not to own guns, please respect my right to own them.
    “If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words… Cars make you drive drunk… and spoons make you fat”

  37. The MDA, and all the other anti-gun organizations are setting the standards of Liberty for our civil society on the lowest common denominator of sanity. They think our freedoms should be based on the behavior of the psychos forced to remain in that society, instead of removing them to an asylum.
    The government did not “mainstream” the mentally disturbed into society. They are turning all society into one vast asylum, with all the rules, regulations, and restrictions required to monitor and control homicidal inmates, ignoring the rights and liberties of citizens.

  38. I was looking over the TTAG’s post about German gun laws. That would have prevented Rodgers and most mass murderers from getting guns.

    But the US will never have laws like that. To get there, it would require gun seizures or martial law, which is how Germany has those laws, enacted after WWII.

    Sadly, the next level of gun control, stronger background checks and limitations on certain types of weapons, would not have stopped this tragedy.

  39. “One only has to look at the makeup of the 75-member board of directors, dominated by manufacturing interests, to confirm one point : The NRA appears to have evolved into the lobby for gun and ammunition manufacturers rather than gun owners.” That’s the reason why Adolphus Busch resigned from the board of directors of the NRA that it’s apologists don’t want you to know.

    • And that’s somehow cogent to this discussion how, exactly?

      Oh, wait.. That’s right. It’s not.

      Oh, and go check out the NRA’s publicly viewable IRS 990 forms to find out where their money actually comes from, Short Stack. I’ll even take the liberty of relieving your demonstrably feeble mind from much of the grunt work by giving you a helpful hint: it’s not from gun companies.

  40. I’m tired of being blamed as the “cause” of the rampages of madmen, and hearing the “cure” proposed as the infringement — or even elimination — of MY rights and liberty as the only way to preserve the “safety” of society.

    “A law which restricts the liberty of the innocent because of the behavior of the guilty, that rests on the principle that the conduct of criminals [or psychos] dictates the scope of liberty for the rest of society, in no sense ‘fights’ crime.”
    For society has permitted its fear of crime, and craving for safety, to turn the force of law against the innocent and law-abiding. Far from fighting crime, the criminalization of otherwise innocent activities represents a society in retreat from crime. This is a society desperately accommodating itself to crime.”
    — Jeff Snyder

  41. You do need to feel pity for his [natural] parents. They lavish their finest on the kid, and he turns out to be an antisocial murderer as well being a suicide. And he wrecked the damned car!

  42. those commenting about the NRA selling guns… you know what the commenter meant. you should address his main point not his grammar or the technicalities. shheesh. i want my 3 minutes back reading at least 10 repeated comments about it.

  43. Guys, come on, Harper is obviously just messing around with you. Hashtags? Idiotic media one liners? Utter, hilarious nonsense in everything he says? Nobody could possibly be as stupid as he’s pretending to be. Don’t fall for it. He’s actually helping us and hurting himself, acting the way he is.

    Tell you what. I appreciate what you’re doing, coming onto this blog and acting like you are so that any visitors will see how pathetic the anti gun types are. And I have quite a bit of disposable income. To show my appreciation, I’m going to donate 5 dollars to the NRA for every post you’ve made on this article, and for every post you make hereafter. No need to thank me for the wonderful feeling you’ll get knowing you’ve aided the cause of liberty today.

  44. In its early days, the National Rifle Association was a grassroots social club that prided itself on independence from corporate influence.

    While that is still part of the organization’s core function, today less than half of the NRA’s revenues come from program fees and membership dues.

    The bulk of the group’s money now comes in the form of contributions, grants, royalty income, and advertising, much of it originating from gun industry sources.

    Since 2005, the gun industry and its corporate allies have given between $20 million and $52.6 million to it through the NRA Ring of Freedom sponsor program. Donors include firearm companies like Midway USA, Springfield Armory Inc, Pierce Bullet Seal Target Systems, and Beretta USA Corporation. Other supporters from the gun industry include Cabala’s, Sturm Rugar & Co, and Smith & Wesson.

    • Gina, I don’t want you to get the wrong impression of gun owners. Not all of us here are huge fans of the NRA.

      Many of us think they are way too liberal.

      • …Danny…I’m not sure if she will get your subtle sarcasm? I’m also not sure what her fascination with funding for the NRA is? The NRA is not out supporting illegal or unconstitutional actions…the NRA is not raising these kids who are allegedly killing people…who knows if these killings…or all of the killings they say are happening are really happening? I watched video of the supposed convenience store where this Chris dude was allegedly shot while inside the store…yet video shows bullet holes through the front windows…from the outside in….the “blood” that was shown in the pictures and which was being cleaned up in a small pool by the convenience store owner with mops and towels (and had not splattered anywhere)…and in the same photo of the “massacre clean up on aisle 7″…there is already a huge wooden shipping crate with a “Glass” sticker on it…which had the replacement piece of glass for the shot out windows? Now really…since when do victims get to clean up their own crime scene…how did the man have the exact size piece of glass ready in a crate for when the “shooter” put two through the window…even though the reports are that the crazy kid went into the store and started shooting? And to top all that off…have you seen the photo of the guy claiming to be “Chris’s Dad”…making his tearful speech about guns and politicians…..and then they have a photo of the same guy acing as an EMT type worker at where else..? The Boston Marathon Bombing…that is where they have a photo of him from before…and it sure looks like the same guy….? I’m not sure if folks like Gina and Harper really believe what they spew…but their back-up and evidence for these “shootings” just keeps getting more inane and laughable by the day…except for the fact that it will lead to a civil war and revolution in this country …and they either know that…or…they stupidly do not….

        RJ O’Guillory
        Webster Groves – The Life of an Insane Family

  45. Yes, 50 percent of the victims were stabbed. Correct. Because he was very methodical. He knew that in the comfort of his own home to kill his first three targets, stabbing would be easier to get away with. If he could have stabbed people from his car when in public perhaps he would have continued using his knifes. But he knew for this portion of his killing spree semi automatic gun would be far more effective & useful.

    • So you admit he was methodical and you think that if he didn’t have access to firearms, he wouldn’t have figured out how to kill an additional 3 people and hurt another 13? Do the people that die from other forms of violence not count because of your feelings toward the NRA? Do you ever question, as I pointed out to Pseudo, that the NRA has virtually no sway in the state of California and that every single CA gun control scheme failed in the “A-rated” Brady Campaign state? At what point does your anger toward a civil rights organization start clouding the facts around these murders? Which piece of gun control legislation would have stopped this attack? How did the NRA have any sway over such a piece of state legislation? If you can’t come up with something besides an all-out ban, then blaming the NRA and “greedy corporations” is just a convenient way to avoid facing the failures in your ideology.

  46. In its early days, the National Rifle Association was a grassroots social club that prided itself on independence from corporate influence.

    While that is still part of the organization’s core function, today less than half of the NRA’s revenues come from program fees and membership dues

  47. The bulk of the NRA’s $$ comes in the form of contributions, grants, royalty income, and advertising. Not just a round up program. Since 2005 the gun industry and it’s corporate allies have given between 20 million & 52.6 million to it through the NRA ring of freedom sponsorship program.

    • The anti gun side has this funny idea that gun rights supporters don’t want gun manufacturers to also support the rights of individuals owning firearms. Just goes to show how wide of a divide there really is. We’re not really scared of Smith and Wesson Gina, because we gun-owning individuals are the ones that keep Smith and Wesson in business… and they know it. If companies want to donate money to fight for an individual’s rights, that’s better than a couple of blowhard billionaires trying to impose their brand of morals by denying rights to their financial lessers. That’s called Plutocracy.

      • You really missed the boat on this one. I support gun rights. I don’t blindly follow corporate greed. A good analogy would be this; I believe in Jesus & God, but blood sucking TV evangelists who are out to take my grandmothers money I’ve got zero respect for. The NRA started out to be a great grass roots “we the people for the people” type organization. It has become corrupt just like a lot of other things in this world. Read up on it with a open mind & maybe you will find the same thing. I honestly thing we need a new organization like the NRA but better.

        • Gina said: “You really missed the boat on this one.

          Deflection. You say I missed the boat, but fail to address any of my points.

          Gina said: I support gun rights.

          How so? To what extent do you feel that you support the right for people to own firearms? What have you done to support those rights?

          Gina said: I don’t blindly follow corporate greed.

          Again, how is it “greedy” to want to donate to an organization that defends the company’s ability to sell their product? I hear this corporate greed argument all the time, yet large gun manufactures pay living wages to their employees and set competitive prices for their products. Further, you think the whole gun manufacturing industry donating around 2.2 to 6 million dollars a year for the past 9 years is somehow more than the 4 – 5 million dues-paying members at $25 to $35 per year? Have you ever looked at the IRS Form 990? I’m guessing you just read that article you posted, based on a blog post, and took their word for it because it validated your preconceived notions.

          Gina said: A good analogy would be this; I believe in Jesus & God, but blood sucking TV evangelists who are out to take my grandmothers money I’ve got zero respect for.

          I don’t believe in people or Christian deities, but I don’t disparage people who do. If some TV evangelist makes someone “feel” better, and that someone wants to give that evangelist money in exchange for that feeling, who are you to tell them different?

          Gina said: The NRA started out to be a great grass roots “we the people for the people” type organization. It has become corrupt just like a lot of other things in this world.

          So let’s get this line of thinking straight. In your mind, companies corrupted an organization that in turn corrupts government officials to pass corrupt laws. So the answer is to give those corruptible government officials more power to go after the corporations that corrupted them. And if that doesn’t work, keep giving the government more power until somehow they magically become less corrupt.

          Gina said: Read up on it with a open mind & maybe you will find the same thing. I honestly thing we need a new organization like the NRA but better.

          I have read up on “it” (the NRA, gun control, laws, policy, politicians, etc) with an open mind over and over and over again. I also am from a place that is very hostile toward citizen gun ownership and have lived through the violence and uncertainties that come along with that view. The NRA isn’t perfect, but if you’re actually looking for another gun rights group to align with, I recommend the Gun Owners of America.

  48. There is a huge hole at the center of this country, and many of the people posting comments on here are standing in the very center of it. Horrible, and deeply sad.

  49. This is disgusting. I’m tired of hearing about senseless shootings and people blaming politicians and gun rights activists for these deaths. Lets do something about it. Show me some legislation, something we can do to prevent these tragedies. Lets look at any proposed legislation and see how it specifically would have prevented the recent, highly publicized tragedies. Would a registry have caught him? It seems this case would be good argument for that. He had a known history of psychological problems and was visited by police after talking about killing other people and suicide. I’m perfectly fine registering all of my weapons as long as (since guns are being called a public health issue) gun owners aren’t the only ones paying for it. If the state needs to keep track of guns for public safety, then the public can pay for it and I’ll register every one of my guns. We can’t stop people from killing, but we can take steps to enforce laws already on the books, to make sure that people who (almost everyone) agrees shouldn’t have access to guns can’t get that access or promptly loose access. Lets just stop. Stop pretending that we can’t do anything prevent or to at least lessen the public impact of these killings. Stop pretending that we have to do something, no matter what it is. Stop pretending that “assault weapon” bans or magazine capacity restrictions would actually make us safer. Lets sit down and rationally examine what we can do and execute it already. I’m sick and tired of hearing about these shootings, about hearing antis’ uninformed calls for laws that won’t help, and some pros’ clamoring about the primacy of the 2nd amendment. Like it or not, our absolutist interpretation 2nd amendment rights are infringed all the time by state and federal statute and the constitutionally appointed authority on the constitution has found them permissible. The supreme court has already had its say on registries. Lets get it done already.

    • California already has a gun registration scheme for handguns and long guns. Along with magazine restrictions, 1 gun a month restrictions, waiting periods on buying firearms, 10 round magazine limits, “may issue” no issue ccw, “assault weapons” bans, bans on new types of firearms, and a whole law enforcement task force (see: APPS) specifically for finding people with “mental health” issues in order to confiscate their firearms. All of which failed. Any other suggestions?

    • I’m with you. We don’t have to agree 1000 percent on every issue to basically feel the same way about this issue. I’m currently pregnant with my first child, due in two months. I just want a safe & same as possible USA to bring him up in. None of us wants to see someone we live become injured or worse because common sense wasn’t being followed or observed.

  50. {Edit: Not sure why this posted way up here…this is a reply to Gina’s post here:

    Mods? Can move post to proper place?


    Wow, a blog post that links to another blog post as its primary source of information about the “Evil Gun Companies;” that second blog post, the “source” for the information … no references, no links, no citations. The business insider bit links to the exact same article multiple times in one paragraph, and there is no independent data source given in that linked article.

    And a link to an opinion piece from the Violence Policy Center? Yeah….not gonna call that “data” either, sorry.

    Do you really believe unsubstantiated crap just because it appears on a blog site…with no corroborating reference?

    No wonder you are here spouting this crap. I asked for DATA, not made-up fantasies blogged by anti-gun progressives. Do you know the difference?

    • @JR: Yeah, no kidding. My last two replies turned up in my email, but I can’t find them on the thread. Maybe this will be #3.

  51. Business Insider is a US business and technology news website launched in February 2009 and based in New York City. Founded by DoubleClick Founder and former CEO Kevin P. Ryan, it is the overarching brand where Silicon Alley Insider (launched May 16, 2007) and Clusterstock (launched March 20, 2008) appear.[2] The site provides and analyzes business news and acts as an aggregator of top news stories from around the web. Its original works are sometimes cited by other, larger, publications such as The New York Times[3] and domestic news outlets like NPR.[4]

    • That particular Business Insider article that you linked to below used as it’s referenced sources a blog post that itself contained no references. It used that single source at least three times.

      It also used an opinion piece written by someone at the VPC.

      That is not “factual” journalism. Sorry, but it’s not. There’s no DATA sourced or referenced. There’s just opinions and unsubstantiated statements.

      That’s not an indictment against BI across the board; just that one particular article. It’s more of an op-ed than anything else.

  52. I think these forum are so useful because it’s important for us as american citizens to fact check one another. We aren’t going to all believe the exact same way. I was a former NRA supporter. I am no longer. I still own guns! I use them to shoot rattlesnakes on my property. If there was a intruder in my home, I’d use it to blow his or her brains out if necessary. Not everyone who questions the NRA’s true motives is anti gun. I’m also not anti NRA members. I get why someone could think that the NRA is a honest organization. I don’t agree however.

  53. It is amazing to me that there are people out there who are so callous that they continue to defend the NRA and America’s very lax gun laws after viewing the video of one of the fathers of Elliot Rodger’s victims.
    The glory days of the NRA are coming to an end. Like any animal trapped and cornered, the NRA is thrashing about, desperately fighting for its life.

    There are some points that need to be clarified. First of all, the NRA is a political organization representing the gun industry. It is not a organization that only teaches gun safety.
    Secondly, there should be something said about the gun laws in California. Elliot Rodger was able to obtain his guns legally–that is to say, the gun laws (such as they are) did not prevent him from purchasing his guns. THEN, he passed a “welfare check”; the authorities did not find anything wrong with him. All this means that the gun laws DID NOT WORK. The gun laws are too lax. If anybody with $250 or a credit card can obtain a gun, then it only a matter of time before psychopaths have guns.
    Thirdly, decent people should be tired of the “why don’t they outlaw knives, too” argument. If Elliot Rodger did not have any guns, and only murdered people with his car and knife, then the people he shot would still be alive and well. That would mean that there would be fewer people dead as a result of Elliot Rodger killing spree. The easy availability of guns made the mass murder worse.

    There is some other things that should be said apropos of knives and cars. First of all, these are tools that are actually useful. They are not designed primarily to kill people. And the government has the power to regulate the manufacture and sales of knives and cars. The NRA has ensured that neither state nor federal governments have the power to regulate the manufacture of guns, and that there only a few weak law to regulate the sale of guns. The large fine the US government imposed on GM recently is a example of something that the US government can not do to gun manufacturers. Firearms (unlike knives and cars) are designed primarily to kill people, and yet a democratically-elected government is helpless to regulate them. This is absurd.

    • “Firearms are designed primarily to kill people”

      What’s wrong with using firearms to kill people in self-defense? Would you rather thousands of innocent people be murdered by criminals?

    • Cool story bro! So in summary, “gun laws didn’t work” but one more, or a couple more, or a hundred more will somehow work. Also, people that die from means other than guns don’t matter to you because GUNSZZZ!!!!1!!one!!! Gotcha. Oh, and ooogabooga NRA or something.

  54. This oriental shooter was one sick puppy and everyone knew it,…CA LE,his parents,everyone who had any contact with him. He was able to legally purchase them handguns and the liberals want you to think its the NRA’s fault,..NOT ! The gungrabbing liberals are the ones with the bigtime mental issues. The liberals also want you to think that the NRA makes money off every firearm sold,more bullshit ! Do you notice the liberals dont mention the knife used or any “knife violence”? They just want to blame the NRA when the system breaks down and never blame the person manipulating the trigger.

  55. I guess the only silver lining to these liberal sissy gungrabbers agenda is that gun sales are at beyond historic levels since hessein obama started stinking up the white house.The firearm industry is stronger and wealthier than ever. I like that !

  56. The NRA does and will continue to make politicians accountable if they don’t support and uphold the US Constitution.The 2A is part of the Constitution they swear to uphold and defend ! Its really so simple even a liberal should be able to figure that one out !


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