Jurisdictions That Aren’t Issuing Permits Shouldn’t Arrest People for Carrying Without a License

Woman concealed carry gun in purse

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From the Second Amendment Foundation:

The Second Amendment Foundation today said that if state agencies and officials around the country that are responsible for issuing concealed carry licenses or permits are not taking new applications because of the COVID-19 outbreak, they should not arrest people for carrying without a license/permit.

“We’ve received reports that some agencies are using the coronavirus outbreak as an excuse for suspending the concealed carry application process,” said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. “The constitution wasn’t put on hold because of the coronavirus.”

SAF has been involved in several legal actions across the country stemming from the coronavirus pandemic. Two of those cases, which have been favorably resolved, involved gun permit applications.

“The right to bear arms,” Gottlieb observed, “translates to the right to carry, and like other rights protected by the Constitution, that right is not limited to the confines of one’s home. Ever since the SAF victory in McDonald v. City of Chicago ten years ago, the Second Amendment has been incorporated to the states via the 14th Amendment. A lot of people apparently have forgotten that, but we haven’t. You cannot suspend a constitutionally guaranteed fundamental right, especially in times of emergency.

“The past few months have seen a significant increase in the number of new gun owners,” he noted. “Many, if not most, of those new owners bought firearms for personal protection, and not just in the home. Where state law requires a license or permit to carry concealed in public, issuing agencies cannot be allowed to arbitrarily stop that process, using the coronavirus outbreak as the reason.

“If a sheriff’s or police department is not accepting carry license applications,” Gottlieb said, “they should not arrest someone for carrying without a license.”

 

 

The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.

comments

  1. avatar GunnyGene says:

    So have they been arresting people?

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Solid logical argument by the article, but Los Angeles really frowns on anyone carrying here without permission. The 2A is not viewed by Sheriff Villanueva as an absolute natural right. Try carrying concealed without Villanueva’s hall pass, and if caught you’ll be doing the Jailhouse Macarena later that evening.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        Florida is playing that game, and I can only hope someone is brave enough to be a test case…

        1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Geoff, I carried in Florida after the army and before CCW. Or, being LEO. Fuck the government! What are they going to do? Kill me? We all started dying the day we were born. Does it really matter how long it takes? Or, how?

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          I just noticed something in the article’s photo as I came back to this page. Where’s the rear cover on the gun’s slide? All the Glocks I’ve ever owned have had flush covers…

      2. avatar GunnyGene says:

        Y’all in CA, NY, NJ, etc. need to get serious about your State/County/Town governments, and set things right. Complaining on this forum and others isn’t gettin’ the job done for y’all. There’s 16 States that don’t require a carry permit or any other permission slip. We didn’t get out from under all that nonsense just by moaning and groaning about it on the web. Put your big boy pants on and get to work.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Yeah, okay Gunny. We’ve just been sitting around with our thumbs up our keisters here in CA, never doing anything and saving all our gripes for TTAG. Thank God you came along to point us in the right direction and wake the sleeping giant that will turn CA and save the day.

        2. avatar Montana Actual says:

          I haz

          Well, you certainly don’t see any armed protests in your state, now do you? If nothing is done, they will continue to take. I know, I know… it’s not just CA, but folks living in those states need to organize and motivate others to do what we all know needs to be done.

        3. avatar Aaron Walker says:

          Same for the People’s Republic of M-Assachusetts…A Demo-Authoritarian STASI controlled Police-State…Where the local/city/state police have absolute power of the “privilege” to have arms (re: according to government and police there is no 2nd amendment right here…) And Massachusetts is a “Licensing state”, where a police approved/state issued “privilege card” is required to purchase, possess, own, or to carry…If approved by the powers that BE…Subject to restrictions, constitutional waivers, Red Flag Protection Orders, BANs, political bureaucracy, that may be suspended or revoked at the whims of the license authority…

        4. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Had me giggling for a second, I thought you wrote
          “M-Asshat-chussets”.

      3. avatar Mark N. says:

        Los Angeles frowns on anyone carrying, period. So they rarely grant permission. Pretty much everyone in town who is carrying is carrying without permission (except the PoPo).

    2. avatar JUSTPASSINTHRU says:

      New Jersey will arrest you WITH A PA. Permit,,,, remember this unfortunate Lady’s experience? It took a Governor to pardon her ,,,,, AFTER she spent 48 days in jail!
      https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/07/ordeal-shaneen-allen-editors/

  2. avatar GS650G says:

    Funny how unmasked citizens get arrested but illegal aliens don’t.
    That’s how it works. Carry without a permit and you are subject to arrest and conviction without even committing a real crime.

    1. avatar enuf says:

      Please provide links to cases of otherwise law abiding citizens being arrested for carrying a concealed firearm, under the circumstances the SAF is complaining about? I agree with the SAF, just want to hear what the example cases are?

      Please provide examples of illegal aliens being ignored in the commission of gun related crimes?

      1. avatar Ferg in Tahoe says:

        Kate Steinle

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          Bad example. He was arrested, (over)charged with first degree murder (but without any lesser included offenses such as 2d degree murder or negligent homicide). With the evidence that the bullet ricocheted off the pavement 20 feet from Ms. Steinle, the jury felt it had no choice but to find him not guilty of first degree murder. Chalk that defense verdict up to a very stupid DA. Had the DA charged manslaughter/negligent homicide, the shooter very likely would have been convicted. All he could be charged with after that fiasco were the federal gun crimes.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          He also stole the damn gun!

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        I said subject to arrest. That varies from state to state and city to city. If you think
        That’s not case carry somewhere you don’t have a permit. You will get away with it until you get made and that’s when it gets interesting.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Without being super careful I carried occasionally for over 30 years before I got a permit, was discovered at least twice (once in TX, once in FL) without any excitement. I’ve carried in NYC and Washington, DC, many other supposedly fanatic locations. Once, I had to go back to the car in DC, after I discovered the building we were about to enter had a line waiting for the metal detector. Never had another problem (that time I had a permit from TX, I’m sure that would have helped a lot-NOT).

    2. avatar BOBO says:

      illegals get arrested?

      try more like given free money, schooling, food stamps, housing, health insurance and I can go on.

      Its got tho the point that a US born citizen with generations of family IN the nation and a vet! Is best served by crossing the border, burn all your ID and cross back illegally and run to the nearest BP agent while yelling ‘amnesty—my last nation was trying to kill me!”

      and they would not be lying!

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        And now they aren’t going have these restrictive voting rules where only have a few hours driving from poll to poll. NOW can just fill out/mail in ballots for days/hours while in PJs. Progressive.

        1. avatar Aaron Walker says:

          You mean “DNC Ballot Harvesting” for illegal aliens and hostile foreign agents….Nothing like a rigged election….

    3. avatar Aaron Walker says:

      That’s because were becoming a “3rd World 🌎/Banana Republic”. Authoritarianism, where Law Enforcement does as they please. Where NO RIGHTS to anything exist…Only the peasents, the big government, and the Paramilitarized Law Enforcement Community…

  3. avatar Gliderguy says:

    That is the ugliest stock photo I have seen TTAG use. It is so bad it was distracting from the message the article was trying to send.

    1. avatar 300BlackoutFan says:

      Always a hater…
      Besides, even tho it’s off body carry, without a rear slide cover plate, it’s not going to actually fire…

      1. avatar guest says:

        And even if it did the sights are so far off they’d hit the guy next to the target.

        1. avatar Gliderguy says:

          Glad I am not the only one that noticed the missing slide cover plate and the sight set to hit way right. – but let me add the obligatory comment about poor trigger discipline and the fact that the slide looks like it has seen a few slides down the road. Something about the barrel hood doesn’t look right, and after all that, the magazine might be the right one for the Glock, but at this point I ain’t even sure no more.

        2. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Yup. I’m thinking pot metal slide like a cheap air soft or B.B. gun.

  4. avatar enuf says:

    Requiring a license to carry a firearm is an infringement upon a Constitutionally Enumerated Right, COVID-19 not withstanding. Claiming COVID-19 as an excuse is a further infringement.

    No law abiding citizen should ever be arrested for carrying a firearm.

    Break the law, different story.

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      Let us know when you plan to make your stand. TTAG can always use a good story.

      1. avatar enuf says:

        About what?

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          Explaining to the cops why you cannot legally be arrested for carrying a concealed firearm without a permit in a jurisdiction that requires them. Make sure it is videotaped. It would be great comedy.

        2. avatar Montana Actual says:

          All these FUDDS criticize you for your views. It’s not people who think that something needs to be done that are the problem, it’s those who expect it to be done for them and talk shit about the ones who will die to prove their loyalty to actual freedom. Fuck you haters. Thousands get murdered by police every year taking a stand, and you sit on your asses ranting on forums about how commie (insert state here) is, yet none of you motherfuckers move a muscle to kick in the states capital doors. Telling someone it’ll be funny to watch them die for taking a stand against TYRANTS… you should be ashamed to call yourself a gun owner you pathetic excuse for an American. You should be answering the call and showing up to gatherings like the people telling you this shit. Waving your trump flag aint doing shit either.

    2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “Break the law, different story.”

      Carrying without a permit is breaking the law in Florida…

      1. avatar enuf says:

        I live in a Free State. As in “Not Florida”.

    3. avatar JUSTPASSINTHRU says:

  5. avatar LifeSavor says:

    I wonder: if you carry without a permit in a place where a permit is required, will your carry insurance cover you?

    We all know the Constitution does not require permits!!!

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      Carry or use the gun defensively? There is a difference of course. Your policy should outline the limits of coverage and provide examples.

      Or ask the jailhouse lawyers around here.

    2. avatar former water walker says:

      I doubt it! They’re all about “legal” CC. A whole heckuva lot of Illinoisan’s carried a gat before it was “legal”. Having any handgun in Chiraq was verboten unless you were a “special” citizen. Until 2008…

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Interesting question, though! It seems like they would NOT assist with charges of illegal carry, but I’d think they WOULD chime in with a case of defensive use. One is the specific purpose of the insurance, the other is actually unrelated.

  6. avatar JUSTPASSINTHRU says:

    Too bad those of us in “May-Issue” States never seem to enjoy the privileges (as to Firearm Carry Allowances) the rest of the Country enjoys. Not being processed for CCW during the Covid era is nothing new for us.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      Keep the faith, SCOTUS is still sitting on *10* 2A cases, from carry rights, microstamping, and AW bans, among others.

      Worry when they are denied certiorari…

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Your trust in the government is what we should worry about.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          One can hope!

  7. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    My jurisdiction is not accepting new concealed carry license applications. They claim that they are processing renewals. My spouse’s license expired this month and we have yet to receive the new license, even though my spouse submitted the renewal (including payment) in April.

    I have instructed my spouse to carry the old license, renewal application, and payment receipt until receiving the new license.

    1. avatar RCC says:

      Strangely enough carrying your old licence and proof of payment is all you need to be legal here in my state (Queensland) in Australia. No good though if you go off over the border. Has been that way for years as the police claim underfunding makes them slow to process renewals.

  8. avatar Steve says:

    I’m drunk as hell and listen to Pride and Glory and barbecuing

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      …armed with your BBQ gun, I hope?

  9. avatar NORDNEG says:

    Where in the constitution does it say you need a permit too exercise your 2 – A right.?
    Even before I had a concealed permit I carried all the time. Just don’t draw attention to your self & your good to go. Also I never carried a gun that could be traced back to me. After you’ve been assaulted & almost croaked, being “legal” don’t mean shit.

  10. avatar Ralph says:

    No Jurisdiction Should Arrest People for Carrying Without a License.

    FIFY.

  11. avatar Lance says:

    Never understood the logic behind arresting someone who carries but doesn’t have a CWP. Its the truest form of victimless crime. The fact that its a crime in the first place doesn’t make sense. Anyone who questions their ability to carry/use a firearm wouldn’t carry one.

    A CWP isn’t indefinite proof of training nor knowledge of firearm laws. This applies to LEOs as well.
    Everyone has different ideas of what is acceptable training (considering its a perishable skill) and, unless you are politically active, you are in the dark regarding new firearm laws and how they are enforced.

    Speaking of which, what KIND of training?

    Marksmanship?
    Safety?
    Knowledge of law?

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Go read D.C. v. Heller for a history lesson. The first gun laws in this country, one dating back to the 1820s, were bans on carrying concealed firearms. The belief was that only evil men set on mischief would fail to carry their weapons openly.

  12. avatar Hasaf says:

    Ok guys, but here is another side. I live in, not the best neighbourhood (but I was able to buy outright, no payments feels good). As such I have frequent contact with the local Mexican franchise of “Thugs-r-Us.”

    I kid you not, these guys patrol in a couple of white full-size SUVs’ and they have their ARs’ in standard police, up-right at the dash, rifle racks. It is always two to a vehicle.

    When we are saying “no Permits Required” we are saying that these guys are just fine. Myself, I have no problems with them, but they are focused on peace. Peace is good for business and I am in a “high-traffic” corridor for the movement of goods that interest them.

    Now for a couple of stories about these guys. I am a teacher and a had a problem with a group of former students being stupid in front of my house a while ago. Just standing out on the street, after dark, and repeatedly shouting F#$% You [my name]. By itself not a big deal, but two nights before they had set my dumpster on fire. That by itself still isn’t a big deal, but a little while ago some kids tried to throw a flaming bottle of gasoline through a different teacher’s front window. Amazingly enough, the window didn’t break, but it did start a fire on his porch.

    In both cases, these guys were here before the police. The second time they saw who the kids were. . . the problem seems to be solved. But seriously, these guys are out patrolling their “area” after dark!

    The second story, my daughter, who lives with me, likes to walk her dog at night. A couple of their . . . I hate to use the word “patrol cars,”. . . were stopped at a park she regularly walks past. They talked to her and told her that they really like her flashlight (one of my tac-lights) because they know it’s her. They also told her that if she ever had trouble, to “let them know, they would take care of it.”

    Back to the point, this is obvious, in your face level of taking over parts of a town. There is no way the police can’t know what’s going on. But, frankly, I think these guys have more “soldiers” in this town than there are police officers. So, when you say, “no permits,” this is what is being legitimized.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      I’m not surprised, there are neighborhoods where ranking members of organized crime make sure their neighbors don’t get the usual city experience of break-ins, robberies, and car thefts…

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        But you usually have to pay through the nose for it or suffer those indignities. In the old days, they called them protection rackets.

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          So… the union.

    2. avatar Mark says:

      So what’s their plan for cleaning out their thugs-r-us problems without infringing the rights of the law-abiding?

    3. avatar Miner49er says:

      Thanks for the Intel, very interesting experiences.

    4. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Sounds like the militia, good for them. You might wish to thank them sometime!

  13. avatar Ranger Rick says:

    Keeping the sers afraid and unarmed keeps them malleable to the will of their masters.

  14. avatar GunnyGene says:

    @ I Haz, Montana, et al:

    I’m not talking about armed protests. People today don’t know how to protest effectively, like we did back in the ’60’s during the civil rights era. You have to be willing to sacrifice and suffer. If you’re going to protest, don’t show up in your full battle rattle. Get a few hundred or a few thousand people to surround the legislature or sheriffs office and zip tie yourselves together. Stay seated on the ground. The more the better. If you can get enough people make multiple ranks in depth. All ages, sexes, colors, etc.. Stay there as long as it takes and force them to use force to carry you off one by one. Take a few shots of tear gas, taser, water cannon, whatever. Show the world you are serious and willing to sacrifice. Show the world who the real bad guys are. Do it more than once. Do it every damn day if that’s what it takes. Stop riding in the back of the political bus.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      Exactly, the idea of peaceful, non-violent, civil disobedience.

      That is how positive change is achieved, thousands of people r with the courage of their convictions, ready to go to jail.

      Dressed neatly, polite and respectful yet refusing to abandon the community’s public spaces.

      Let them turn on the fire hoses, spray the teargas, release the dogs, and American citizens will become outraged at the treatment of those seeking their civil rights, be it racial equality or any other constitutional right.

      We must persuade with the truth and courage of our position, not bully with the size of our gun barrel.

      1. avatar GunnyGene says:

        Well put. 🙂 🙂

      2. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Is it really bullying? Or is it equal resistance? In Kent State when the police failed, they brought in the Army… how’d that peaceful protest go? Also, what has happened recently with “peaceful” unarmed protests? Destruction of local businesses, shutting down entire communities and disrupting innocents way of living so they can march for days in a city. Achieving and changing nothing. People get overtaken by police every single time. They get stopped in their tracks. Now look at the current armed protests. Right to the front doors of the capitals. No destruction of local communities. No police force. Local governments backing down.

        Right? I mean, it’s still peaceful, it’s just met with the same resistance that the enforcers will utilize. You can dress however you want. Nobody is showing up for the BLM marches in suits and ties. There is no dress code for peaceful protests… In fact, majority of people who show up to those things look borderline bummy as fuck. At least in the armed protest, some people look like they mean business. So what if it’s in full gear. Cops are too.

        What you call peaceful has failed. Now there is proof that showing up armed is the new peaceful, and it works 100% better.

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      What the fuck are you on about? You tried the peaceful approach and got sprayed with fire hoses. If your approach worked, Kent State would have never happened. Unarmed people were fired upon. If the police who show up to counter protest have body armor, you better wear some equal shit. Nothing about what you said makes sense any more. It’s outdated, and it failed every time you tried it. Wake up. How many people have been tear gassed at these armed protests recently? Zero. Fucking Zero.

  15. avatar Jeff says:

    Jurisdictions ARE Issuing Permits Shouldn’t Arrest People for Carrying Without a License.

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