Is A Peaceable Approach To RKBA Change Still The Best Way?

minneapolis floyd protest riot police

A protester in an Elmo mask dances during the Justice for George Floyd Philadelphia Protest on Saturday, May 30, 2020. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

Jay Inslee, governor of Washington state, recently tweeted:

As George Floyd is laid to rest in Houston today, we cannot rest until justice is delivered and we create lasting change as Americans and Washingtonians. Because #BlackLivesMatter

To which Joe Huffman, of the blog The View From North Central Idaho, replied:

Protestors have demanded changes in — even the elimination of — policing. They’ve resorted to rioting, burning, and looting. The police and National Guard gave way. Federal, state, and local politicians are capitulating, left and right.

Apparently civil unrest is a much more effective strategy than writing to congresscritters and voting.

The next time police kill an honest gun owner for no good reason, perhaps we could torch or take over a few precinct stations and get the National Firearms Act and Gun Control Act repealed.

To be perfectly clear, I an NOT actually advocating that. In fact, I’ve written extensively on why that would be a very bad idea. It wouldn’t, couldn’t end there. But conclusions like that will be drawn by some as part of the moral hazard of allowing these kinds events to continue.

The radical left appears to have declared hunting season already. And it could can rapidly become open season. Complete chaos.

But still…given the events of last two weeks, I can’t help wondering, in retrospect, whether the peaceable assembly approach was the most effective tactic in Virginia after all.

comments

  1. avatar WI Patriot says:

    Peace through superior firepower…

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      This is a little OT, but completely in line with the photo at the top of this article.

      I *just* got off the phone with a family relative who has been a lifelong sideliner when it comes to guns. Never vocally in opposition to them or the 2A, but never in support of them, either. However, I offered to take her to the range last year, and even though she had never held a gun before, she enjoyed the time immensely as the urban myths about the “evils” of guns dissolved away. Did all the usual steps for a newbie, such as practicing proper hold with a plastic orange replica handgun, then live fire with .22LR, then up to 9mm, then reloading, sight radius, grip adjustments, etc. to the point where after two hours she was doing it all fully herself and hitting small steel at 25 yards. Said she might consider getting a gun for herself and becoming better trained, but such statements often fall to the wayside.

      Today she asked if I can recommend a place where she can buy her first gun. The COVID-19 food shortages were tolerable, but the recent Antifa resurgence, looting, rioting, and cop deaths got her attention. The current #DefundPolice being pushed by BLM and now being seriously deliberated by some jurisdictions have made her realize the ugly truth that we private citizens really are responsible for our own safety, and that we cannot rely on police.

      We’ll have to see what our local FFL has in stock that would be suitable for her, but better late than never. Once she undergoes the whole rigamarole including NICS check, CA BGC, waiting period, required CA exam, etc. she’ll probably also become a better informed voter as well. Of course, if she does go the distance and get a gun, I’ll advise here to buy a few hundred rounds of ammo at the same time, so she doesn’t have to come back at a later date and go through our ridiculous ammo BGC for it.

      This is how we’re doing it in CA. One convert at a time. And the Left’s recent dumpster fire is helping us.

      1. avatar Jeremy B. says:

        That is TOTALLY on topic. That is how we win the “war”, with hearts and minds.

        “Is A Peaceable Approach To RKBA Change Still The Best Way?”
        Answer – Yes, unless your intent is to start a (preventable) civil war.

        1. avatar Mad Max says:

          The other side is going to force us to fight a civil war as soon as they get back in power. Expect them to go after all of the individual rights in the Bill of Rights.

          We will have to fight those Marxist scumbags at that point unless you want to live in an American version of Maoist China.

    2. avatar RobertRay says:

      Firepower doesn’t mean squat unless your enemy really, really believes you will use it. Gotta make them believers by putting the fear of Sam Colt, John Browning, Eugene Stoner, and Ronnie Barrett in them.
      Our Founding Fathers would already have been finished shooting a second time.

    3. avatar Country Boy says:

      …..because freedom Isn’t free.

  2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

    I would participate in an armed protest of tens of thousands of gun owners descending upon Los Angeles City Hall – or up at Sacramento – to peaceably demand that Villanueva, Garcetti, the City Council, Newsom, and the Democrat Legislatures recognize our rights. As some of you recall me saying here in the past, our CA State Constitution’s Article III Section I consists of a single sentence:

    “The State of California is an inseparable part of the United States of America, and the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land.”

    1. avatar binder says:

      All that will do is hopefully give you and opening after a federal case is heard. Look to IGOLD sometime. They had 10000+ people marching on the capital every year and it took a court case to get shall issue in Illinois.

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Right, but armed OPEN CARRY protest in a state like CA? Sounds like some people are ready to free themselves. I hope people in those states do just that. I know if I lived there, I’d be right there in the front with them.

    2. avatar pwrscourge says:

      Hey man let’s talk about how that fool pwrserge owned you over the Memorial Day and how you left without squaring things away. Weak man…

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “Weak man…”

        The ‘weak man’ is the piss-ant sniveling little fuckwit that doesn’t have the balls to use the same username here in TTAG.

        In case that wasn’t clear enough, I meant *you*, jizz-stain… 🙂

        1. avatar pwrscourge says:

          Oh yes. And using the same user name requires so much courage. You ever wonder why your comments typically end a thread? It’s because they’re stupid 😂.

        2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “Oh yes. And using the same user name requires so much courage”

          It’s more than you have, boy… 😉

        3. avatar pwrscourge says:

          Hahaha. Please tell yourself whatever you have to in order to reconcile the fact you’re a complete joke 🤣.

        4. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          @pwrscourge,

          Hmm, let’s see about your claim. I just went back and opened every single TTAG article for the entire Memorial Day weekend (Sat, May 29 thru Mon, May 31), and not only does a search on each page for ‘pwrserge’ return no results (meaning he didn’t post a single comment the entire weekend), but you yourself responded when someone inquired about his curious absence:

          “He’s been awful quiet lately.”
          https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/who-needs-an-ar-15-dallas-store-critically-injured-in-savage-beating/#comment-4528911

          The definition of making something up and presenting it as truth is called “lying”. So please enlighten all of us as to why we should believe anything you say. We’re waiting.

        5. avatar Montana Actual says:

          @pwrscourge

          You are not fooling anyone. You got exposed and now the only thing you have left is to act like a keyboard warrior. KYS you fucken retard.

        6. avatar James Campbell says:

          Spot on Geoff.
          I’ve seen more then my share of name changing trolls here on TTAG.
          I just ignore the little pissants now.

        7. avatar All Hail! says:

          Listen to and respect the words of the inestimable James Campbell.

        8. avatar Tom in PA says:

          Get him Geoff!!

      2. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

        You bumped your head the only thing Powerbottom owns is the voices in his head and they like to revolt.

    3. avatar Hasaf says:

      Do you mean Sheriff Villanueva?

      The Sheriff of Los Angelis county?

      The Sheriff who has no problem with tattooed gangs operating from within the sheriff’s department, so long as they are Latinos?

      That Sheriff?

      https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/10/11/20910315/banditos-los-angeles-sheriff-department-lawsuit-gangs
      https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6454256/Banditos-Complaint.pdf
      https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/policing/2019/01/31/blue-wall-of-silence-policing-the-usa-cops-community/2604929002/
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/05/police-violence-cliques-and-secret-tattoos-fears-rise-over-la-sheriff-gangs
      https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-sheriff-gangs-fbi-inaction-20190714-story.html
      https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-fbi-investigating-sheriff-20190711-story.html
      https://theappeal.org/deputy-gangs-los-angeles-banditos/
      https://ktla.com/news/local-news/prosecutors-decline-to-file-charges-against-deputy-in-crash-that-killed-2-young-brothers/
      https://witnessla.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Lopez.Guadalupe-Complaint-etc.-filed-032514-copy.pdf
      Yes, I could keep going, but there is a constant theme, A group of Latino Deputies, “Los Banditos” demanding sex from fellow deputies (1.5Mil Payout) and violently assaulting other deputies. The real theme here is that it only matters when they are doing this to other LEOs’. You have to know that these guys are leaving a path of non-LEOs’ in their wake.

      The Founding Father opposed “Select Militias” with good reason. However, in our quest for safety over liberty, we lionize these select militias and make excuses for their crimes instead of demanding that they be the best of us.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Sheriffs are elected. You get what you vote for. I bet he’s a Dem.

  3. avatar Bucephalus says:

    I see smoke on the horizon. As posted earlier today on TTAG, the brown shirts are out there and the wimpy politicians are bowing to their craziness. Is this just a passing phase? I hope so but I fear it is not. Our country appears to be lapsing into the downward spiral of corruption and decadence that has been the downfall of other great powers of the past.

    Keep your powder dry.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Bucephalus,

      Our country appears to be lapsing into the downward spiral of corruption and decadence that has been the downfall of other great powers of the past.

      Unfortunately, I believe you are correct.

      Since truth, justice, and timeless standards of right-versus-wrong no longer matter to our politicians, judges, and bureaucrats, they will not respond to appeals in that vein. Sadly, they will only respond to pleasure (money, power, fame, and adulation from the masses) and pain. If we do not have any pleasure incentives to offer our politicians, judges, and bureaucrats, then our only remaining option is pain incentives.

      That is the “new” reality that we are facing. From this point forward, our discussions should focus on what specific forms of pain that we are willing and able to deliver and whether they will be effective.

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Is it weird this post made me erect?

        1. avatar Esoteric Inanity says:

          This one once had a paramour that got off on pain. She had masochistic tendencies. Unfortunately for her, Esoteric Inanity isn’t a sadist. Thus another short lived relationship.

        2. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

          @Esoteric Inanity
          Still got her number? 😈

      2. avatar Someone says:

        I’m afraid that you are right.
        Well, if it had to come to this, so be it.

      3. avatar Esoteric Inanity says:

        Fear can be a very powerful deterrent. Sadly, most bureaucrats and many politicians no longer fear the people. There are several excellent quotes by Thomas Jefferson that come to mind in light of this.

  4. avatar Nickel Plated says:

    The peaceable approach has never been the most effective way to affect change pretty much anywhere. The founding fathers didn’t gain independence by writing letters and protesting in Parliament.
    The communists didn’t get rid of the Czar by writing letters and protesting at the palace.

    The peaceful approach has always been about winning public opinion to your side by showing that you are “reasonable” and are willing to settle things the civilized way before resorting to violence to show that you won’t simply be waved away.
    But when the entire media and propaganda machine is against you and will paint even the most peaceful of demonstrations as an armed insurrection, what’s the point of being peaceful anymore?

    1. avatar Esoteric Inanity says:

      A very well reasoned and cogent analysis. Nickel Plated is a truly wise individual. Even the civil rights movement in the U.S. followed such trends. Those appearing to want a peaceable solution, will always hold the moral high ground even when violence is inevitable. Such is why Doctor King is revered and Malcolm X is controversial.

      Mischief thrives in chaos, wild cards abound in all directions. With such a zeitgeist, intentions mean little until the strife has ceased. In this disorder, the Overton window is all but shattered; there is little way to discern “good” from “bad”, there is only the ravenous dogma of the mob. That is, if one wishes to take the responsibility and subject themselves to the madness.

  5. avatar Ing says:

    So far, this ain’t nothing compared to the BS that went on in the 60s and 70s, but the stakes are higher now. The civil institutions that should protect this country (and were mostly functioning back then) are either dysfunctional or enemy-aligned now.

    I’m all for peace, but it looks to me like on the current trajectory, we’ve got about 3 to 7 years before we find out the hard way whether peace is an option or not.

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      Ing,

      I am not sure about that 3-7 year forecast. My guess is that the current behavior of the far left is only practice for when Trump wins in Nov (and I think he will).

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        If Trump wins, the rioting, looting, and arson burning of the past week will look like a lame warm-up compared to what will likely happen.

        If they win, they will go hard Fascist in ways we haven’t conceived as possible. They will weaponize every tool they possibly can…

        1. avatar LifeSavor says:

          Geoff…….

          Yes. Exactly so.

        2. avatar ILExile says:

          Do not refer to these agitators as Fascist. They are full, dyed-in-the-wool Communists. While both wanted total control of people’s hearts and minds, only the Communists wanted full economic control. The Nazis largely abandoned their socialistic leanings after taking power (and the Night of the Long Knives), letting small businesses keep the towns running and letting the Krupps and Messerschmidts turn a profit as long as they supplied the war machine alongside other pursuits. These rioters advocating massive social change are also the Occupy Wall Street/Bernie “free everything for everyone” Bros. In a much more useful term: Communists.

        3. avatar strych9 says:

          Geoff:

          I’m curious what “tools” you refer to.

          I’m not arguing, just asking for an expansion/clarification.

        4. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          Exploiting the access they have in the various medias and the social discourse to frame conservatives as not being a legitimate political voice, and thereby being something they have a duty to silence, “in the interest of saving democracy”. And if takes breaking a few eggs to make that yummy ‘Progressive’ omelette, so be it.

          Did you read my earlier link to the WSJ, and what the New York Times did to an opinion editor?

          https://www.wsj.com/articles/cancel-culture-journalism-11591658340

          That’s a genuine cold wind you feel a-blowing…

        5. avatar Miner49er says:

          Sounds like you guys have this whole riding thing worked out, must be the brown shirts it seems.

          This news article details of the arrest of an individual who burned the police precinct, is this one of the communists you spoke of?

          “A Minnesota man has been charged in connection with the arson of a Minneapolis police stationhouse during riots over the death of George Floyd, authorities said Monday.
          Branden Michael Wolfe, 23, of St. Paul, was charged in federal court with aiding and abetting arson at the Minneapolis Police Department’s Third Precinct, the Justice Department said. The station was set on fire during May 28 rioting that began after Floyd’s death while in Minneapolis police custody days earlier.
          Rioters broke into the precinct around 10 p.m. and sparked a fire after police officers on the roof were rescued by helicopter. The blaze was set a short distance away from Floyd’s altercation with four Minneapolis police officers.
          Federal prosecutors said St. Paul police officers were called on June 3 to a Menards home improvement store after Wolfe was seen wearing body armor with his name written on duct tape, a law enforcement belt and a baton in the store. The belt had handcuffs and a knife attached.”

        6. avatar Southern Cross says:

          As previous “Socialist” utopias have proved, there is never enough enemies of the state. Stalin’s purges revealed that in time they will eat their own.

        7. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Miner is back in full swing it seems…

          “Hey, I heard you guys don’t like tyranny… have you read this article?”

          Find a new gig dude.

        8. avatar Ad Astra says:

          So minor your claiming now that there is no such thing as a caucasian communist now? Have you ever read a book? At least looked at a picture book maybe? You know one with puctures of marx, lenin, or stalin?

        9. avatar Dude says:

          “Wolfe was seen wearing body armor with his name written on duct tape”

          These guys aren’t exactly known to be the sharpest tools in the shed. That’s why they’re easily manipulated by the folks that keep a safe distance from getting their hands dirty.

      2. avatar Ing says:

        LifeSavor, you’re right about what will happen with regards to public disorder and “liberal” terrorism if Trump wins. There’s no doubt about that. I just think it’ll take some time for the tide to turn in the legal arena. We have achieved some real progress that can’t be dismantled all at once, which is why I pulled 3 to 7 years out of the hat; it allows time for intervening elections, for simmering problems to boil over, and for the authoritarian left to deploy the tools of repression they’ve been putting into their kit.

        Geoff, also right on. I knew the legacy news media was a lost cause already (they threw in on the wrong side decades ago), but the turn they’re taking is chilling nonetheless.

        I found this on Joe Huffman’s excellent blog: “Most of the politically volatile issues of the decades of the Sixties and Seventies revolved around the perception that government was too controlling in the collective mind of the politically liberal.”

        Those same “politically liberal” people are now in charge of our corrupt, dysfunctional, controlling civil and government institutions. And the few among them still capable of measured thought and peaceful dialog are being purged by zealots (their own trainees) who would make Stalin and Mao proud. This is all going to get VERY ugly before it gets any better.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          “Most of the politically volatile issues of the decades of the Sixties and Seventies revolved around the perception that government was too controlling in the collective mind of the politically liberal”

          So you don’t think that the imperialistic war in Vietnam and the unfair draft system that chewed up poor white and black folks in the rice paddies had anything to do with the unrest?

          Or the repressive police brutality against black folks who were seeking their civil rights, after years of racial segregation and depression?

          Or the criminal and traitorous acts of president Nixon and his gang of plumbers, employing illegal dirty tricks against his political opponents and using the IRS and CIA as well as the FBI to illegally wiretap and persecute political activists?

          You must’ve lived through a different set of the 60s and 70s then I did…

        2. avatar Ad Astra says:

          Hey minor by imperialist war i guess you mean when the communist northern end of Vietnam decided to invade and forcible annex South Vietnam?

        3. avatar Ad Astra says:

          Oh and lest we forget saint FDR had his own private gang of spies. Plus when obama the most merciful let the irs loose on conservative political groups.

        4. avatar Ing says:

          Lived through the 60s? I’m not *that* old. I lived through the 70s, but spent the early years in diapers and the later ones running around in the sagebrush with my faithful doggo.

          My dad is one of those who got sucked into the Vietnam meatgrinder (thankfully came through it whole and with patriotism intact, although sadder but wiser).

          The liberals of his day had legitimate concerns — and they went about “fixing” things in the most counterproductive and hypocritical way possible. And it’s beyond ironic that they’re the primary architects and showrunners of the same sort of government they hated when they were young — only they’ve built it far bigger and done far more damage to the body politic than Nixon and Vietnam ever could.

        5. avatar Dude says:

          “unfair draft system”

          Correct, I think the protesting settled down when they quit forcing people to fight a war.

          It’s funny how Watergate is still held up as the ultimate government scandal by the same people that refuse to acknowledge RussiaGate. Their favored media outlets ignore it as well since they made a fool of themselves by pushing a DNC manufactured conspiracy theory for three years.

        6. avatar LarryinTX says:

          I’m too old and infirm to go out and join the fun, I’ll load a couple more guns and stay home to defend. Don’t plan on scuffling with me in my yard. If your friend is bleeding and crying on my porch, it would not be a good idea to approach him, it is *probably* a trap.

        7. avatar neiowa says:

          Miner49er says:
          June 10, 2020 at 19:33
          “Most of the politically volatile issues of the decades of the Sixties and Seventies revolved around the perception that government was too controlling in the collective mind of the politically liberal”
          So you don’t think that the imperialistic war in Vietnam and the unfair draft system that chewed up poor white and black folks in the rice paddies had anything to do with the unrest?

          Your typical prog (Pravda) drivel. The “volatile issues” for the leftist indoctrinated chics was anything pro Moscow (Peking). The hippydudes fell in line in hope of getting laid (as always the case) and saving their worthless pampered princess babyboomer hides (as Biden, Clinton, etc).

          What are you 75 and stupid with your “imperialistic war” nonsense the BIG LIE of “unfair draft system that chewed up poor white and black folks”. 50+ years and you frauds are still parroting this BS. The demographics are well established that this in NOT TRUE. Blacks were NOT over represented in Vietnam, the Army, or Combat Arms (that’s the small % that do the actual fighting (Infantry)). The majority of Combat Arms were middle class and lower middle class. and volunteered. Until the commie dems totally screwed the goat and surrendered (after we won Tet) in 69/70 volunteers made up the majority of combat arms.

          SO you’re full of commie progtard crap. GO AWAY

        8. avatar Miner49er says:

          “Blacks were NOT over represented in Vietnam, the Army, or Combat Arms (that’s the small % that do the actual fighting (Infantry)). The majority of Combat Arms were middle class and lower middle class. and volunteered.”

          Your reading comprehension skills are a bit rusty, I never stated that blacks were over represented in Vietnam.

          I stated “ poor white and black folks” so I’m glad we agree about the middle-class and lower middle class although I’m not sure I agree the majority of combat arms were volunteers.

          Now this one is a whole Nother matter:

          “Until the commie dems totally screwed the goat and surrendered”

          Do you believe that the Democrats surrendered in Vietnam? And when were you born?

          You guys are all the time trying to rewrite history, fortunately there are many actual records of events that right wing revisionists will never be able to destroy.

          American involvement in Vietnam ended in 1973, under Republican president Richard Nixon, who declared “Peace with Honor” on January 23, 1973.

          He then abandoned the south Vietnamese and the Montagnards to their fate.

          Republican president Gerald Ford abandoned the South Vietnamese, declaring the war finished for America on 23 April 1975, leading to the fall of Saigon.

          So there you have it, the war was started by republican president Eisenhower, surrendered by Republican president Nixon and officially declared finished for America by Republican president Ford.

          Good Lord nelly, did you sleep through history class or do you think history didn’t start until you joined Facebook?

          Or are you lying about the Vietnam war in order to support some ‘Dems are a bad narrative‘?

      3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        @LifeSavor and @Ing,

        I believe Trump will be re-elected, the GOP will retain the Senate, and enough districts will flip to red to hopefully win back the House, but more likely will break the Left’s supermajorities in several areas such as Sacramento in CA. The Left will go full wackjob for the near term and break out in riots before their leaders calm them enough to focus on the 2022 midterm elections. But I think they already know they’ve lost 2020 (hence the desperate measures today), so they’ll eventually be resigned to accepting Trump as reality, and will pour all their resources into discrediting the GOP entirely for the 2024 election. Whoever is chosen by the GOP to succeed Trump will have a real battle on their hands, as Trump supporters will be demanding a continuance of swamp draining, while Democrats will paint all Republicans as evil warlocks who want to poison the drinking water and sacrifice our children to the god of Wall Street.

        I say “gear up” for November.

        1. avatar LifeSavor says:

          Haz,

          Good forecasting. The 2022 mid-terms are far away, but if the riots resume after the Nov election, all bets are off for the Dems making a good showing in the mid-terms.

          Existentially, Hate does not win hearts and minds. It does not win affection. And it debilitates its adherents.

          I am concerned about who follows Trump. But we have time to sort that out.

        2. avatar Dude says:

          No one will be voting for Joe. He’s a sick joke, and they know it. People will be voting against Trump. That strategy is somewhat effective. Hillary is a fine example.

        3. avatar neiowa says:

          Haz didn’t get the prog memo – Pres Trump will NEVER STEP down at the end of his term. Dicktator for life, we willly willy hate him because he won’t kiss the prog ass.

  6. avatar Dennis L says:

    “But still…given the events of last two weeks, I can’t help wondering, in retrospect, whether the peaceable assembly approach was the most effective tactic in Virginia after all.”

    It unfortunately depends on the color of your skin. A black violent uprising on the surface (no pun intended) is terrifying to many Americans. A white uprising not so much. Americans tend to identify with the ultra violent scenarios of African genocide. Where hundreds of thousands of innocents have been massacred. They fear a black uprising would have the same results. Especially when your civic leaders openly advocate dismantling the police force.

    1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      I’d debate that. I mean look at where most the traction for gun control is in the first place; It’s not in people shooting each other in Chicago it’s that mass shooters (who are stereotyped as white) are going to kill people.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “It’s not in people shooting each other in Chicago it’s that mass shooters (who are stereotyped as white) are going to kill people.”

        The last few weeks has destroyed their anti-gun arguments, especially the magazine bans they love so much. A 10-round magazine is of little use when a mob shows shows up to loot and burn…

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          The anti-gun arguments will not be ende3d until the leaders of the disarmament movement are voted out of office. And it doesn’t matter how many Democrats bought guns. Just look at Bloomberg and every other liberal politician who surrounds him/herself with armed guards: gunz for me but not for thee.

        2. avatar Red in CO says:

          Anti gun arguments are routinely obliterated by public, high profile incidents. That doesn’t mean fewer people become anti gun. Leftists are like doomsday cults who repeatedly predict the end of the world in a specific timeframe and then somehow double down when that doesn’t happen on schedule.

          Jesus Christ I wrote that as slight hyperbole and then I realized it’s quite literally true

        3. avatar Dude says:

          Yes it is.

        4. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “Leftists are like doomsday cults…”

          Red, I’m gonna use that one!

          *snicker* 😉

      2. avatar Dude says:

        True Andrew, but the reason the mass shooter scares them more is because the mass shooter is more likely to kill white people. The white dems keep a safe distance from much of the black violence, which is why they don’t care.

        1. avatar Hugh Glass says:

          This is a “whitey is evil” movement. The anarchist are just taking advantage of the situation.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Most mass shooters appear unconcerned what color their victims are, and in my memory, those that are concerned seem to wish to kill blacks. Trying to analyze murderous lunatics is not a precise science. Shooting them makes more sense.

  7. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    This is deeper that Floyd or BLM,it is between this country becoming a Marxist based nation or remain a Republic,one would hope that it could be settled peacefully but I wouldn’t count on it.

    Pray for peace but prepare for war

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      Green Mtn.Boy,

      “Pray for peace, prepare for war”.

      Yes. Every day. Especially if/when Trump wins in November.

      1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        Especially if Trump wins.

      2. avatar Mark N. says:

        To me, just the opposite. If Biden wins, it will be war, but it will not be internal insurrection. The day after Biden is sworn in, China goes to war, seizing more islands in the South China Sea that belong to other countries, invading Hong Kong and Taiwan, threatening Australia if it refuses to follow the China line. Biden will do nothing to stop it.

        1. avatar Jerry says:

          Biden is in China’s pocket. Will turn a blind eye to their misdoings.

        2. avatar Southern Cross says:

          With regards to China, Biden is down on his knees and has opened his mouth as wide as possible.

          Progressives want to “diminish” the global standing of the United States. They should think a bit about a world with Chinese hegemony. They make the most blatant examples of the ugly American look mild in comparison.

        3. avatar Dude says:

          The people in charge don’t care what happens to America as long as they get their money and power. That’s why we’re in this position now.

        4. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Biden will escort his son to China immediately to discuss the invasions, everything will settle down immediately after Biden Jr gets a few more billions.

  8. avatar ThinkingAboutHmm says:

    I had this same conversation with a left wing, democrat, progressive… who replied that gun rights and black live matter rights are two different things, that the 2A was not intended to allow semiautomatic ownership or possession by civilians, something about hunting, Democrats don’t want to take away guns, blah, blah blah… the anti-gun type said that while violence by the protesters is justified because of the autrocities committed against people of color in this country by people of privileged white it doesn’t mean that citizens should be allowed gun ownership, besides the individual said that the people currently committing violence, while justified, are not really the left, anti-fascist groups (which the individual actually believe ANTIFA is part of the Right not Left), or Democrats. The individual doesn’t believe that a popular vote could result in implementing a theocracy, but that a popular vote to confiscate personal firearms should be allowed because it is the will of the people. The individual said that if the Right used violence to advocate for 2A rights they should and would be justifiably suppressed by the police and military. By the way the individual doesn’t believe that the left is calling to abolish the police, and that that is only a small group who are not Democrats. However the individual could empathize with people who want to abolish the police.

  9. avatar LastOfTheOldOnes says:

    BLM is a communist-anarchist construct, whose goal is destroying Liberty and capitalism. It is all fake news and has NOTHING to do with racism.

    George Floyd was a violent criminal, as I saw in the Texas rap sheet showing all his 9 arrests over the years.
    The resulting looting and riots have as their main goals to destabilize America, and get rid of Trump and his DEPLORABLE supporters.

    Thankfully, the DEPLORABLES have the highest rate of gun ownership of any defined group. :
    Non-White 23%
    NorthEast 27%
    Democrat 34%
    West 41%
    South 42%
    White 51%
    Midwest 53%
    White Evangelicals 58%
    Republican 60%
    Tea Party 63%

    With 450 million guns in the US, who do you think will prevail in any country-wide attempted destabilization ?????

    A good estimate is that the DEPLORABLES most likely have 350 to 400 million guns. That would be an impossibly hard nut to crack.

    Popcorn time coming up….

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      LastoftheOldOnes,

      I avoided a fight a long time ago; it was clear I would lose, but I made it clear to my antagonist that I could and would do some real damage to him. He realized I could. We talked, instead (thank you, God).

      My concern is the damage, lives, property that will be done, even if we win.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        If it comes to pass, and we do it right, the damage will be horrendous, because after two days, when it is over, we will spend the next 6 months or so actually hunting down and executing all of those who actually caused it, and their families and extended families. Like the Communists have done forever, and you will note that it works.
        Look; the documents are clear, and impossible to misunderstand, yet a group of people pretend to not understand what “shall not be infringed” means, as an example. If millions die due to that group’s actions, while they remain safely tucked away in their towers of academia, or Congress, they will be right back advocating the same treason within a year or two. They need to hang, in the public square, whether that is “humane” or not. THEN it will be over.

        1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Where’s the upvote for this?

        2. avatar ChoseDeath says:

          Right with you.

      2. avatar Someone says:

        There will be damage if we fight, but nothing compares to the damage communism inflicts on a nation. I have seen it. It not only ruins the economy, it twists people morally. Almost anything is better and there are very few things not worth sacrificing to avoid the leftist utopia.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          “it twists people morally”

          That’s already happened here.

      3. avatar EndDangerEd says:

        LifeSavor…. you said “….but I made it clear to my antagonist that I could and would do some real damage to him.” I agree… that will bring a REASONABLE PERSON to a point of negotiated peace…. but when the enemy you face believes YOU ARE A SCOURGE…. that MUST be destroyed…. there can BE NO SUCH ACCOMODATION. Even in the same situation you would not waste your time trying to reason with a rabid dog. So what CAN one do when faced with a berserker, who recognizes nothing as being worthwhile OTHER THAN their own point of view and their own desires? Sadly that is the place we are rapidly approaching. I agree with others who think that November will be the Watershed event…. evan as four years ago the trashed D.C. I think with stand-down orders in way too many States we will see unprecedented destruction all across this once great Nation. Order MUST be reclaimed and the LAW must re-earn the respect it deserves or America will descend into CHAOS and be INVADED during the insanity. Be Ready!

  10. avatar Keyword Spam says:

    The powers that be have proven time and again that they don’t listen until people begin causing trouble. The people in power do not care and never have cared about “the little guy”. They only care about making themselves bigger and stronger. They want you dumb. They want you fat. They want you slow. They want you just content enough that you won’t want to upend the apple cart.

    Hard times are coming. Be ready for them.

  11. avatar MarkPA says:

    The MAD Doctrine seems to apply in both cases.
    Mutually-Assured-Destruction.

    Gun controllers argue that a nation of OFWGs (of every race and ethnicity) with rifles couldn’t overpower the combined power of military and police. Yet, prevailing is not a necessity under the MAD Doctrine. One only needs the capacity for Assured Destruction of the enemy.

    Men of peace argue that a nation of firebombers and looters couldn’t prevail over the combined power of military, police and fire departments. Yet, prevailing is not a necessity. Firebombers and looters need only demonstrate a capacity to destroy the tax base.

    Viewed through MAD Doctrine, most nations peoples retain the capacity to withhold their consent to be governed by their respective regimes. (North Korea and China seem obvious exceptions because of their historical and contemporary cultures). The ubiquity of gasoline, bottles and matches with the willingness to commit suicide seems to be sufficient for MAD.

    We seem to be witnessing four camps at “war” with one-another:
    1. government
    2. rioters and looters
    3. protesters who are non-violent
    4. gun owners

    1 and 2 are at violent war. 3 and 4 are at non-violent war.
    The last thing lawful gun owners would ever want to do is destroy their own government. But remember, it’s still on the list. And, they retain the capacity.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      The ‘peaceful protestors’ are complicit in support for the violence their storm-troopers wreak…

    2. avatar Detroiter says:

      This is a great point. One that I think about whenever the topic of war comes up at the same time as “hearts and minds”

      If an “organization” of any kind takes lives the families, friends, etc remember the tragic affect on their lives, the story is remembered. And retold. For generations. The violence and discontent festers and grows for generations.

      When I view protests and riots in that framework it makes sense. Maximum economic damage. Minimal loss of life (for a violent uprising).

      Still instills fear of the general public and the politicians.

      Someone has orchestrated a useful tool indeed.

  12. avatar Jeff says:

    The radical left is now starting to enforce their rule over many aspects of American life. Thought crimes are being punished by UCLA against two of it’s professors. One for reading a Martin Luther King speech out loud and another for not exempting black students from exams. I fear for my son as he lives in this brave new world, not because he is black but because he is a conservative. My time is coming to an end but he will have to live in a America that is changing for the worst.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      Being Black and conservative means he will have to go forth carefully on his life journey, I fear…

      1. avatar pwrscourge says:

        Yet another superfluous comment from a four star Keyboard Commando.

        1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          Is that the best you have?

          Little insults? Crap, the troll quality as taken a serious dive with chimps like you jumping up and down while screeching.

          Dance, troll. I order you to respond… 🙂

        2. avatar Tom in PA says:

          And yet one of the most obvious displays of racism is the silencing of black conservatives by white liberals…

        3. avatar AD of the Hinterlands says:

          Its like a small community here. We all vary somewhat in our opinions and nobody is absolutely right, ever.
          That being acknowledged and accepted, there are people who bring some type of value to most discussions.
          You are not one of those people, Scourge. Wisdom compels me to encourage you to listen more and speak less. Learn more and preach never. Good day.

    2. avatar BLT says:

      Well that one was a white guy using the n word after his class said it made them uncomfortable. Not the time to make that statement.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        this shit is starting to get really, really old….talk about the tail wagging the dog!…..

  13. avatar Lance says:

    I think at some point we need to drop the ‘law abiding gun owner’ label somewhere down the line if we are to practice non-complaince in the future.

    1. avatar Red in CO says:

      “Honest” gun owner works. Frankly, I’ve entirely dropped the phrase “law abiding” from my vocabulary. There is no longer any such thing as a law abiding citizen because it’s literally impossible to abide by all 20,000+ laws we have. But honest citizens, or honest gun owners, is still a reasonable description for decent folk who make a good faith effort to follow legitimate rules

      1. avatar Ing says:

        I’ve dropped “law abiding” too. I usually go for “peaceful” instead.

        It’s easy to tell who’s peaceful and who isn’t, and peaceful people aren’t a threat. And yet, if you succeed in making a normally peaceful person decide *not* to be…

      2. avatar UpInArms says:

        I’m in favor of “armed citizen”. Switched to that a long time ago.

    2. avatar Umm says:

      I prefer “natural-law-abiding citizen” myself.

      1. avatar KenW says:

        You do know that was co-oped by the TM movement, “Transcendental Meditation”

  14. avatar ColoradoKid says:

    We’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Peaceful protest (armed or not) has not and will not get us anywhere. Non-peaceful armed protest (whatever that looks like) will work against us and prove the leftists point, that our gun rights need to be taken away because we’re dangerous wackos. A vote for a republican doesn’t look like the answer either, with most politicians in general being against us. Public opinion needs to be changed, and one way it will happen is if we are the ones protecting businesses and neighbors when riots and looting happens at the hands of the real wackos. No matter, I fear our real battles haven’t even begun yet. It’s going to take large numbers of us leaving our keyboards and getting BOTG.

    1. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

      @Colorado
      “one way it will happen is if we are the ones protecting businesses and neighbors when riots and looting happens at the hands of the real wackos.”

      The media will portray us as “Boogaloo Bois”, white supremacists (no matter what color we are, and terrorists there to incite violence by pretending to be there to protect neighbors and businesses. It’s already happened.

      It’s still a loss.

  15. avatar enuf says:

    “Is A Peaceable Approach To RKBA Change Still The Best Way?”

    Yes, yes it is. If Trump will call out military units with insignia removed over protests in DC, imagine his reaction to an actual armed uprising!?

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      That’s a joke, right? Trump will do *nothing* in the event of an “armed revolt”, although he may direct others to do something. I have no fear that American military men will engage armed protestors seeking redress for their grievances, and if ordered to do so I would fear for the safety of those doing the ordering, including Trump, although it is obvious to me that he would be the last to do such a thing. We were recently treated to a spectacle where ranking members of the FBI and CIA were actively engaged in illegal spying on a political campaign, possibly with the blessing of a president, and toying with the idea of a coup, and I think they would have attempted it if it had not been pretty obvious that it would fail and it’s failure would cost them their lives. Of all the people in D.C., there is no one I fear less than Trump. And I was in the military for 20 years.

    2. avatar Dude says:

      The Bureau of Prisons is a branch of the military?

      What’s your source for that?

  16. avatar Ark says:

    Ha. It is foolish to believe the slack cut to communists and leftist radicals in any way translates to you.

  17. avatar strych9 says:

    It strikes me that, from a bird’s eye view, the country actually is doing fairly well historically speaking. Yeah, we’ve got some turmoil but that happens from time to time.

    In looking for historical precedents for this political situation I noted that many of the oft cited examples are, at best, a poor fit.

    So I refamilarized myself with a large number of not often cited examples, specifically post-colonial Africa in the “Independence Era” of 1960 to 1990/5. It jumps out to me how poorly most of these fit as well. Of approximately 55 countries anything more than a cursory glance at least 50 bear easentially zero resemblance to our situation.

    Of the remainder I find a single entity that actual has significant parallels to our current situation, that would be Botswana, which arguably did the best of any recently independent country in Africa during the time period in question (and indeed to this day). The reason for this appears to be a relatively “elastic” political system. Not as elastic as ours, which had made it through greater upheavals, but quite flexible in comparison to the other 50+ countries.

    In one way or another all the other countries had one significant characteristic that we lack; a significant autocracy run by someone more consumed by ethnic, religious or racial hatred than anything else and who used that to agitate an already borderline collapsed country for their own financial gain and outright nepotism/(for lack of a better term) tribal favoritism. Mostly they sought advice and support from the USSR and where they didn’t their neighbors did, resultingbin crossboarder guerilla wars aimed at toppling any non-communist governments. These people were true dictators from the jump.

    Botswana on the other hand not only was more elastic but was also in the position to learn from the experiences of it’s immediate neighbors, notably South Africa and South Rhodesia. What they learned was that strategic negotiations bought time, saved resources and allowed for the separation of the real grievances from the political loonies and hostage takers.

    Once the groups were sorted the real grievances could be addressed while the loonies, outside agitators, terrorists, Communists, race war types and political radicals were effectively marginalized within the population. At that point the latter groups were fairly simple to deal with because they had effectively alienated themselves from the general population already. The result was a fairly peaceful process without plunging the country into chaos and economic destruction. There wasn’t much need for a “security crackdown” a la South Africa because the problematic people had almost no support internal to the country and were therefore forced to either leave or adopt rational positions within a larger political process.

    If there’s a major set of parallels between us now and a historical situation I think this is one of the better, if not the best, fits. Other than this I go back to the Roman Republic where when we find significant parallels the Republuc came through fine after a readjustment period of 6-18 months of relatively peaceful processes playing out.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      “…the problematic people had almost no support internal to the country and were therefore forced to either leave or adopt rational positions within a larger political process.”

      I think we’ll find out in the next few years whether that’s true here or not.

      Assorted leftist radicals have been infiltrating our institutions for decades now, and during 15 years inside the higher-ed enculturation machine (from which I escaped last year), I saw what used to be fringe lunacy become the norm; they have been going about this very systematically.

      I hope you’re right and I’m wrong, but I think there’s a decent chance that collectively they can fill the same role as those third-world dictators and destabilizers, if not right now, then within the next decade or so. But who knows…there are any number of events that could intervene to expose and isolate the lunatics.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        The more I’ve thought about it the less this concerns me. Don’t get me wrong it’s still someone concerning but the 1A has this neat little facet to it that it not only allows, but also encourages, assholes, kooks, lunatics and fringy people to out themselves.

        The majority don’t really care for it and rational people know it. Just look how nervous “Defund the Police” makes Pelosi, Schumer and the Biden campaign. That’s look shit that the bigwigs really don’t want to embrace and there’s a damn good set of reasons for that.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          *kook shit.

          *grumbles about new phone dictionaries and autocorrect*

        2. avatar Ing says:

          Fair enough. The First Amendment is an effective tonic (although they’re working on watering it down), and the current crisis could very well be one of those things that exposes the lunatics and expels most of them from all the serious discussions.

          Trouble is, when it comes to being anti-gun, that’s not the fringe position, it’s unquestioned orthodoxy in the Democratic party. (Larger social unrest is a different story.)

          If they get all three branches again, look out. They’ll be pushed into a corner by their own claims, the progressive wing will hold the squishes’ feet to the fire, and they *will* pass some laws that will set us back by decades. Having seen the bad old days of the ’90s, I can testify that you do NOT want to see them reappear.

        3. avatar strych9 says:

          I don’t think it is unquestioned orthodoxy.

          I know plenty of moderate Democrats that are not in favor of gun control. They’re the folks who are either going to take back the party (as it seems is happening in the recent primaries which are a bloodbath for the progressives) or they’re going to join a certain set of Idenpendents and Republicans saying “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic left me”.

          Increasingly it seems that they’re either going to win decisively here shortlybor leave. They’re tired of being to that saying “I support protesting but not rioting” is somehow “racist”. Really tired of it.

          I’ve said for sometime that it seems that the Democratic Party is fracturing, and this is the fault line. It seems the time is rapidly approaching when we find out if the Progressive Left can really wrest control from the establishment and moderates. Increasingly I doubt it. They’re too fanatical about exactly the wrong things and it’s destructive to the establishment cause. Moderates already don’t care for a Pelosi type and now she’s probably going to lose her left wing. The party then either goes hard Left and shatters or the Moderates take control and gun control is dead for at least a cycle because even Pelosi knows she can’t sell that shit after the last two weeks.

          Again, no time to rest on our laurels. Now’s the time to see if we can’t *help* this whole thing along.

        4. avatar AD of the Hinterlands says:

          The greatest benefit of our Constitution is, indeed, freedom. “Free market” applies not only to economics. There is also the “marketplace of ideas.”
          The monopoly that traditional media has had, I would contend, has given us an unfair market.
          Now, this is only one example (and probably a poor one) but the hatred, destruction, and racism of the KKK has been shouted down and (rightly) rejected. Meanwhile, the hatred, destruction, and racism of other groups are (wrongly) held up as admirable.
          I loathe lies and hypocrisy above all else.

        5. avatar strych9 says:

          “Meanwhile, the hatred, destruction, and racism of other groups are (wrongly) held up as admirable.”

          I think the admiration for this is both narrow and shallow. I think the media sells what amounts to fear porn and nothing else. And I think that distorts the vision of those who consume too much of what the media sells. I think this creates an illusion that things are far worse and far more widespread than they really are.

          HBO cancels Gone With the Wind because their executives watch too much news and run in an insulated cocktail circuit that’s effectively an echo chamber, not because their customers want it. I think that they see a pattern they’ve created for themselves and eventually reality will shatter that false pattern. I think they want simple solutions to complex problems because nuance is hard and virtue signaling is easy in the short term.

          I think that we do all of this too. In fact, I know we do. I see it here every day.

        6. avatar RidgeRunner says:

          Strych, the “reality that will shatter that false perception” is called an election. And, if it is conducted fairly, the right will win convincingly. Conservatives are *over* being told they are bad people and seeing icons, monuments and institutions they hold dear destroyed. They’re pissed off about sacrificing so much to play nice and stay home, only to see those that take from society without contributing run wild, destroy, steal, and mass-gather with impunity. Identity politics plays well right now in what’s visible, but a whole lot of the country is quietly seething and can’t wait to vote. The only fear is a stolen election. Otherwise, local politics and electoral college carries the day.

        7. avatar strych9 says:

          Ridge:

          As Jules would say “Exactamundo”.

          An example of people making this harder than it needs to be: the six blocks in Seattle that “protestors” have taken over.

          I see people freaking out about this but the solution is simple. For the time being say OK, we have anre boarder and erect a fence and ring the area with CBP.

          Then state that this new “country” is something we’ll need to properly recognize, establish relations with, sign a trade agreement with etc. and that until then we’ll treat it like any other brand new country on our boarder. So… like two years until we can hash out an agreement and then another two to get a treaty and get trade flowing.

          You think those Lefties have four years worth of food and medicine stockpiled? How long before most of the people there apply for asylum because their little country is a worthless, starving pile of garbage?

          Shitbwe can even accelerate the usual process greatly, you think they’ve got six months worth of gear there?

    2. avatar neiowa says:

      You’re ACTUALLY looking for an AAR/Lessons learned from Africa???

      How about: Barbarian/tribes will not hesitate to kill/destroy civilization (Western) just to blow it all up (Rhodesia, S Africa, etc). More than a MILLION YEARS and all they came up with is pennyante tribalism and sell your neighbor into slavery.

  18. avatar CDC says:

    If ELMO wants to dance with me hes got another thing coming. Judas Priest
    Screaming for Vengeance

  19. avatar Montana Actual says:

    “Is peaceable approach… something something something….”

    *Pours gasoline*
    No.

    Is it finally obvious to some of you?

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Fire is amazing:

      Molotovs against a Hong Kong AV:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZBK66oyHi8

      Against a Ukrainian APC:

  20. avatar former water walker says:

    NO a peacable approach is NOT the best approach. I will “protest” for 2 thing’s:2A right’s & anti-baby murder. I’ll bear arm’s to KEEP my AR15…the po-leece withdraw in fear from unarmed looters. Imagine fighting their “friend’s” & neighbor’s. We are indeed living in the Last Day’s. Perilous times are here!

    1. avatar Binder says:

      Read your history, we are so far from last days it is not even funny. 1100000 people die from some new version of a virus and we act like it is the return of Black Plague. China’s cracking down on protesters, and we actually like we are dealing with Mao. The world has issues, but at no time in history was it really better than it is now.

      1. avatar Country Boy says:

        LOL, that’s what every previous generation said…………..

  21. avatar Shire-man says:

    Just look at how much those “please stop genociding” letters the UN sends out have accomplished.

    They believe in those letters so much they don’t hesitate to pull their peace keepers out after sending them.

  22. avatar Dan H. says:

    The mistaken assumption here is that the riots are going to yield substantive legal change. They probably won’t. I’ve said for days, the odds of serious law enforcement reform, (i.e. their unions, the fact that they operate under a de facto lower standard of care for the use of force than civilians which is the opposite of basically every other profession in our society) pretty much went up in smoke right along with the 3rd Precinct.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      They probably won’t, you’re right. They’ll burn themselves out and the police will be just as brutal to *everyone* (not just black people) as they were before.

      What could very well change is the amount of government funding going to assorted leftists to “dismantle racism,” by which the social justice crowd means the civil rights we cherish the most. Which means we can look forward to our current political problems getting much, much worse.

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      I would doubt this.

      Riots have mostly stopped but large protests have not. At some point pols will embrace police reforms or they will lose their jobs.

      Anger at police mismanagement, misbehavior, unions and brutality have been simmering across numerous political lines for a long time and they’re not going to go away because meaningless platitudes. Especially when the next thing is the question of if another round of virus lockdowns can be enforced…. by the cops.

      Whether or not we get “substantial reform” depends on your definition of “substantial” but this isn’t an issue where the status quo will be allowed to continue.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        As long as the police departments use their government authorized powers to attack minorities there will be protests and efforts to reform.

        It’s it it’s like the one below shows it rank and file police officers do not treat minorities fairly. We can argue about the root cause, is it racism, I’m at a loss to find another explanation.

        In any case, every free American citizen should stand up in protest against selective enforcement of laws against minorities.

        Let me ask, does anyone know of a single episode of a white child being arrested and handcuffed for jaywalking?

        “Tulsa police have released body camera footage from two officers who arrested a black teenager and handcuffed a second for jaywalking last week.
        The videos were released in response to social media messages from the community about the arrest, police said. The videos appear to have been blurred and redacted by police to conceal the teenagers’ identities.
        In the videos of the June 4 incident, the two teenagers can be seen walking down the middle of a road together before they are approached by an officer on foot and a second in a squad car.
        Once the officers reach the teenagers, one officer can then be seen forcing a teenager onto his stomach to handcuff him, while holding him down with his arms and knees. The second teenager is also handcuffed, but doesn’t struggle and remains standing.“

  23. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    So is Burn Me Up Elmo going to be the “HOT” Christmas gift this year. Also, does it come complete with a Bic lighter?

  24. avatar Docduracoat says:

    There is going to be another American Civil War.
    I don’t see how it can be avoided.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “I don’t see how it can be avoided.”

      It’s possible. It might take few atrocities, and then the blowback could shock them from going over the edge.

      Maybe?

  25. avatar Country Boy says:

    Hmmm current times reminds me of someone who once said: No matter what your Mother told you, violence does solve problems.

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      Aside from resolving the issues of slavery, fascism and communism, violence has never solved anything…

      Well, it didn’t solve the issue of communism – because we didn’t apply enough violence to the issue domestically.

  26. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    In broad terms, I think that there have now been three large-group examples set that violence gets results.

    The first, in the 60’s, was blacks rioting and burning down cities. The black underclass has taken trillions of dollars of social welfare scheme income out of the US economy since the mid-1960’s. Big time results.

    The second has been Muslims and their habits of killing people or blowing up targets. The historic animosity and ridicule directed against Christians since the 1960’s, especially by Jews in the entertainment industry and intellectual circles, is utterly missing when dealing with Islam. Today, no one in entertainment is allowed to mock Islam. Witness what happened with South Park – to this day, you cannot even buy their episodes 200 and 201 on CD, nor are they ever streamed. Big, lasting results – and those results are so effective, the Muslims have other people doing their censorship for them.

    The third is now this Antifa/BLM (and they’re two sides of the same leftist coin) agitating for appeasement and elimination of not only police authority, but also their ability to literally get away with murder.

    Well, it’s said in mathematics that a single point is just that – a point, two points is a line, and a minimum of three can be a trend. We have now have a trend, people. The lesson to be drawn here is that it is better to be feared than respected. By ‘feared,’ I don’t mean “at the ballot box.” None of the fear of the above groups is “at the ballot box.”

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “Witness what happened with South Park – to this day, you cannot even buy their episodes 200 and 201 on CD, nor are they ever streamed.”

      Commercially available, correct.

      But thanks to decentralized peer-to-peer file sharing, they never went away…

  27. avatar Umm . . . says:

    The crackdowns (and the riots, and the virus, etc. etc.) are nothing more than reminders of what was already completely obvious to every thinking person: Living piled under millions of others, like a factory-farmed chicken, in a city full of third worlders and leftist ideologues means living under third word / leftist policies (and paying a fortune for the “privilege”). I’m not saying that’s Constitutionally or morally correct, just that it’s no different than before people started acting like the sky is falling.

    Conversely – in flyover country – the concealed-carry map, gun owner numbers, the percentage of MSRs vs. fudd guns, etc. are not only not at all alarming for us, but quite alarming for the other side. I understand it may be different in November.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      eliminating firearms ownership….eliminating the police…installing pliant politicians…sounds like a trend to me……..

      1. avatar Umm . . . says:

        Yes, indeed: three data points along a trendline of big-city tyranny that has been consistent throughout my whole life. In the meantime, gun rights recognition has advanced throughout much of the rest of the US, and even cities’ control has been circumscribed by the Supreme Court, state preemption, etc.

  28. avatar Dave says:

    I suspect the government response to a bunch of pro gun protests turned riots would be more vigorous.
    Maybe I’m paranoid, though.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      You are 100% correct. The media would be sounding the alarm bells.

  29. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

    Whenever gun rights proponents DARE protest gun control laws, you see articles popping up by journalists encouraging the state government to just crack down on them because LAW and ORDER. Who the HELL do these gun nuts think they are to prance around protesting legally passed laws demanded by the voters? And ESPECIALLY during a PANDEMIC (re. the Virginia protesters). But all of that “law and order” and pandemic stuff goes out the window when it’s people rioting, looting, beating people, destroying property, etc…

  30. avatar Weapon of War says:

    We ain’t going to do jack shit. They have taken over a city and nothing happened. They have burned and plundered and nobody did shit except take a knee. Fucking empty words from Trump and people on the right.

  31. avatar Eastern Washurhandsington says:

    Gay Inslee is a C U C K !

  32. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Oh what the heck ,it’s coming.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE_raH8EzZE

  33. avatar Miner49er says:

    Praise providence above, first we had four-star USMC (ret) general Allen, then General Mike ‘mad dog’ Mattis, who oversaw the raid that killed bin Laden.

    Now we have the top general of America’s Armed Forces, speaking truth to power, speaking out for the oppressed of America.

    This patriot spoke out, knowing there’s a good chance that petulant draft-dodger Donald ‘bone spurs‘ Trump will fire him for speaking the truth in public, but that’s what this soldier does, speak the truth even if it hurts.

    “America’s top general apologized for appearing in combat fatigues with President Donald Trump after the forceful dispersal of protesters outside the White House last week, saying the move was a “mistake.”
    Gen. Mark Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said that he was “outraged” by the killing of George Floyd and added that the protests it sparked spoke to “centuries of injustice toward African Americans.”
    “As senior leaders, everything you do will be closely watched. And I am not immune. As many of you saw, the result of the photograph of me at Lafayette Square last week. That sparked a national debate about the role of the military in civil society,” Milley, said in a pre-recorded speech to a group of graduates from the National Defense University released on Thursday.
    “I should not have been there. My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. As a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that I have learned from, and I sincerely hope we all can learn from it,” he added.”

    1. avatar Dude says:

      “A peaceful demonstration was cleared in Lafayette Square next to the White House with PEPPER SPRAY and flash-bang grenades so that the president and his entourage could walk to St John’s Episcopal Church.”

      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53012887

      It looks like your Fake News buddies have finally given up on the tear gas narrative. Do you ever feel like a played fool for constantly pushing their fake narratives?

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        You can argue on whether or not sprayed pepper gas is a teargas, or does it have to be CN or CS.

        I can tell you from experience, all of them cause tearing, coughing, sneezing, redness and swelling. It’s a distinction without a difference.

        But really, why do you focus on the language and completely miss the fact that America’s top general, with decades of experience leading men in battle and protecting the United States of America calls out the president for his un-American and unconstitutional actions?

        1. avatar Dude says:

          “You can argue on whether or not sprayed pepper gas is a teargas”

          Oh now that’s a hilarious pivot! You were adamant the other day that it was tear gas because your beloved media told you it was. Now pepper spray is really tear gas. They’re completely interchangeable! You guys can never admit to being wrong, can you? You just don’t want to admit to being played for a fool.

        2. avatar Dude says:

          “But really, why do you focus on the language…”

          Because, as you know we had this discussion the other day. I proved you wrong then, and I’m pointing that out again now. We also had a separate discussion about your blind obedience to the opinions of your heroes in the military and the celebrity class.

        3. avatar Miner49er says:

          You and Fox News and the president may claim it was not tear gas, but the people that are being sprayed with it and having their eyes swelled shut and filled with tears as they cough and hack say it’s the best imitation they’ve seen.

          But for clarity, let’s see what the experts say:

          “Common lachrymators, which were used as tear gas, include pepper spray (OC gas), PAVA spray (nonivamide), CS gas, CR gas, CN gas (phenacyl chloride), bromoacetone, xylyl bromide and Mace (a branded mixture).”

          Well, what do you know, there are seven different agents that are classed as teargas, and one of them is indeed pepper spray.

          Again, why do you insist on your non-standard definition of teargas and completely ignore the unconstitutional and illegal actions of cadet Donald ‘bone spurs’ Trump?

          Is it because you don’t agree with the protesters that causes you to approve of the president ordering federal agents to violate their right to peaceably assemble and to petition the government for a redress of their grievances in a public park?

          Do you believe constitutional rights are just for you and not for other people with different viewpoints, how quaint.

        4. avatar Dude says:

          I don’t care what Trump or Fox News says. I care about the facts. We’ve been over this a few times already. Once again, here is the official undisputed account:

          https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm

          “To curtail the violence that was underway, the USPP, following established policy, issued three warnings over a loudspeaker to alert demonstrators on H Street to evacuate the area. Horse mounted patrol, Civil Disturbance Units and additional personnel were used to clear the area. As many of the protestors became more combative, continued to throw projectiles, and attempted to grab officers’ weapons, officers then employed the use of smoke canisters and pepper balls. No tear gas was used by USPP officers or other assisting law enforcement partners to close the area at Lafayette Park. Subsequently, the fence was installed.”

          After falsely claiming that tear gas was used, the press and their unquestioning followers are now trying to say that tear gas and pepper balls are actually the exact same thing. Of course pepper spray balls have irritants in them. How do you expect them to work?

        5. avatar Dude says:

          “Again, why do you insist on your non-standard definition of teargas and completely ignore the unconstitutional and illegal actions of cadet Donald ‘bone spurs’ Trump?”

          You live in your own reality, don’t you? Trump, or the police for that matter, would not stroll through an area where tear gas was deployed without a gas mask. If President Obama was strolling down the street, would they allow a mob of people that were attacking security to get close to Obama? Any honest person would admit the media narrative would be completely different if this was Obama.

        6. avatar Dude says:

          Your beloved media used to think pepper spray and tear gas were so different that they made a point to mention them separately in the same sentence or headline. Now, all of a sudden, they’re the same. Don’t you get tired of being such a sucker?

          https://twitter.com/EdKPyros/status/1268049453145100289

        7. avatar Miner49er says:

          Yes, not only do we have photographic and video evidence along with witness testimony, now we have physical evidence of 0C teargas canisters at Lafayette Park, being used on peaceful protesters.

          Dude, pretty soon you’ll have the opportunity to smell the teargas is well with Donald Trump’s storm troopers come to take your guns.

          “Maybe we should just take the guns first and worry about the courts later” DJ

          “But now, video first reported by The Washington Post reveals federal Bureau of Prison officers, identified by their insignia, were holding the launchers required to fire the tear gas canisters WUSA9 gathered on the streets.

          The video further shows one officer, from an unidentified agency, carrying what appears to be an OC natural tear gas canister. We can tell because of the orange marking on the canister, which a former military weapons expert told WUSA9 marks OC canisters. 
          Neither the Bureau of Prisons nor US Park Police would comment on the video.

          Analyzing WUSA9 video from the scene shows federal officers, including US Park Police, were prepared for tear gas. Most officers can be seen wearing gas masks right before WUSA9 reporters watched canisters getting launched on Pennsylvania Ave and 17th Street. When WUSA9 crews were picking up gas canisters on H and 17th a few minutes later, these Park Police officers were still wearing gas masks.

          The canisters WUSA9 collected included this canister for artificial CS tear gas, again something the US Park Police said it, nor any of its assisting agencies, ever fired.

          Video obtained by the Washington Post shows US Park Police officers, identifiable by uniform, on H Street near 16th Street rolling a Stinger Ball Grenade at protesters.

          WUSA9 collected a Stinger Ball grenade remnant on H and 17th minutes after it was released. It sprays rubber pellets at high velocity, and its label shows it had natural OC gas inside.

          US Park Police denied they used Stinger Ball grenades, even after WUSA9 showed them our evidence. We have now sent them video of their officers throwing one, but Park Police has not yet responded with a comment.“

          WUSA9.com › news › local › protestsNew video shows evidence tear gas was used on protesters | wusa9.com

          Dud, don’t you get tired of being sucker?

        8. avatar Dude says:

          I’m not the one trying to argue that pepper spray is the same thing as tear gas. I’m 100% for the truth, and I’m sick of media narratives. I will say that the local news stations are really the last bastion of actual news without trying to push a narrative. The fact that they discover a CS canister is what’s interesting. I wouldn’t call it proof, but I would say it’s definitely evidence. Maybe there’s a way they could trace it to see where it came from. I read somewhere that either the Secret Service or the Park Police were saying specifically that they did NOT use CS. I would say that’s enough to call for some sort of internal investigation to get to the bottom of it. If they ended up shooting that, then it would be a scandal simply because the people in charge said the opposite of what occurred.

          But this isn’t how it’s presented by the mainstream media and the twitter mob. They’re acting like Trump is picking up the phone saying, “Hey, you see that peaceful gathering where they’re singing kumbaya and holding hands? Yeah, gas ’em!” The mob had already torched a historic building, they tried to torch a historic church, and they were throwing things at the police, and refusing to clear the area. I don’t think it would go well for me if I didn’t clear out from a perimeter for President Obama. Of course they’re going to make a wide perimeter from the President, but everyone needs to be honest about what’s happening, and we need media that we can trust to hold EVERYONE accountable, from all sides.

  34. avatar Miner49er says:

    Peaceful protest is the only path to creating lasting change within our society.

    Anyone who thinks Racism is nonexistent in America is intentionally ignoring reality:

    “A peaceful Black Lives Matter protest in Nevada was briefly interrupted by two men wearing Ku Klux Klan hoods and carrying Donald Trump flags.
    Video has emerged showing the moment protesters from both sides came together to jeer and chant against the men who showed up at the demonstration in Fallon on Monday.
    The clip shows one officer arriving to talk to the men in white hoods while at least one protester chants: “No Trump, No KKK, no racist, fascist USA.”
    The footage ends with both men appearing to turn and walk away from the crowd after being spoken to by the officer.”

    But the fact is, the majority of Americans are reasonable and compassionate humans, who welcome dialogue between opposing viewpoints as a means to resolve differences in moving forward together.

    “The incident had marred what had been a peaceful protest, which resulted in BLM protesters and “all lives matter” counter-demonstrators, some of whom were armed, coming together and hugging.
    Max Ryan, one of those who brought a gun to the rally in order to “address my second amendment right to bear arms and to make sure this stayed peaceful,” described how the BLM came over to the counter-demonstrators to discuss their views.

    “What ended up transpiring, I don’t think either one of us saw happening,” Ryan told KTVM.
    “The parties came across each other’s line. And they said they come in peace. So I said if you come in peace, then give me a hug. And the next thing I know we were having a civilized conversation, educating each other.
    “It’s kind of amazing what one hug can do sometimes,” said Ryan.
    In a Facebook post discussing the protest, Ryan added: We spoke for over an hour sharing or opinions and believes. We actually found we agree on more than we disagree on. To include the way the movement has been handled in other places.

    “Thanks to all the BLM protesters for being peaceful and open-minded.”

    Regardless of how one feels about the racial issue, minorities who have had their civil rights trampled for hundreds of years can find common ground with any American who strives for equality and freedom for all people.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      “two men wearing Ku Klux Klan hoods and carrying Donald Trump flags”

      Was that the local chapter of the KKK? All of two guys? Is there any proof that these guys are what they’re pretending to be, which is racist Trump supporters? How convenient that they’re wearing KKK hoods AND carrying a Trump flag. It’s either a Left wing false flag or proof that the remaining KKK racists are a laughably small number. But of course you’ll believe what you want to believe. You’re the embodiment of prejudice.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “It’s either a Left wing false flag or proof that the remaining KKK racists are a laughably small number.”

        Interesting assertion you’ve made here, do you have a source or citation to back up your claim, or is it just empty speech to promote your narrative?

        And apparently you completely missed the point of the article. One wonders why you’re so oblivious to the obvious benefit of American citizens coming together to protect their rights.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          “Interesting assertion you’ve made here, do you have a source or citation to back up your claim, or is it just empty speech to promote your narrative?”

          That’s exactly my point Miner. There is zero proof of anything. The narrative being pushed is the one you are pushing, which is Trump and his supporters are KKK racists. You’re demonstrating that you don’t care about proof unless it goes against your narrative. I’m not promoting any narrative. I’m asking for facts. You’re asking me to believe the narrative without proof of anything.

          “And apparently you completely missed the point of the article. One wonders why you’re so oblivious to the obvious benefit of American citizens coming together to protect their rights.”

          Please point out where I said I’m against protests or racism or civil rights. I won’t hold my breath.

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          “The narrative being pushed is the one you are pushing, which is Trump and his supporters are KKK racists.”

          The article just reports on what happened, it makes no editorial comment but just accurate reports that two men in white hoods and caring Donald Trump flags showed up to the event.

          I understand that you probably would’ve rather had the news outlet sensorEd in order to conceal the mention of Trump and the KKK but that’s not how America’s free speech works.

          “There is zero proof of anything.”

          No, there is both video and photographic proof, along with the statements of multiple witnesses, that two men showed up to the protest in KKK regalia carrying Trump flags.
          You can deny that fact if it suits your delusion but the evidence is there.

          “Please point out where I said I’m against protests or racism or civil rights. I won’t hold my breath.”

          Dudette, I never claimed you were against anything, all I said was:

          “One wonders why you’re so oblivious to the obvious benefit of American citizens coming together to protect their rights.”

          Do you even understand what the word oblivious means?

          I realize, English may be your second language, but there’s a big difference between being ‘oblivious’ and being ‘against’ something.
          You might wanna check your Russian to English dictionary for more details.

        3. avatar Dude says:

          Miner said: “The article just reports on what happened, it makes no editorial comment but just accurate reports that two men in white hoods and caring Donald Trump flags showed up to the event.”

          Are you going to play dumb and pretend you don’t know what the implication of that is? Articles like this are used by people like you to help push a narrative. It will also be enthusiastically copied by other media outlets. The media does NOT enthusiastically copy and report on stories that don’t help to push the narrative. Perhaps you haven’t been following the fallout from RussiaGate?

          Miner said: “I understand that you probably would’ve rather had the news outlet sensorEd in order to conceal the mention of Trump and the KKK but that’s not how America’s free speech works.”

          Where did I say anything remotely close to that?

          Miner said: “No, there is both video and photographic proof, along with the statements of multiple witnesses, that two men showed up to the protest in KKK regalia carrying Trump flags.
          You can deny that fact if it suits your delusion but the evidence is there.”

          Again, where did I say anything remotely close to that? Not only did I NOT deny that this happened, I offered two very different, opposing opinions as to why I thought this happened. Did you miss that part?

          Miner said: “Dudette, I never claimed you were against anything, all I said was:

          “One wonders why you’re so oblivious to the obvious benefit of American citizens coming together to protect their rights.”

          Do you even understand what the word oblivious means?

          I realize, English may be your second language, but there’s a big difference between being ‘oblivious’ and being ‘against’ something.
          You might wanna check your Russian to English dictionary for more details.”

          Dude: Miner, I’m very aware of why people are protesting. Why would you think I’m not?

          You know who else called me Dudette? Vlad. It’s funny how a big Lefty like you insults me by calling me a girl name. I thought you guys were supposed to be down with girly men? Just more hypocrisy…

        4. avatar Miner49er says:

          Oh, please forgive me for calling you dudette.

          You were just so excitable and seemed somewhat consumed with word games, I thought you were a little girl.

          I’m really sorry Dud and I assure you, it won’t happen again!

        5. avatar Dude says:

          It doesn’t bother me one bit, Miner. You’re welcome to call me names to your heart’s content. I’m just calling you out on your hypocrisy.

        6. avatar Dude says:

          You know who else called me Dud? Vlad. Hey Vlad.

  35. avatar Ralph says:

    “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”

    — H. L. Mencken

  36. avatar SeizureDoc says:

    The Republican Party is the latest version of the Weimar Republic. They will lose.

  37. avatar All lives matter! Unless you disagree, then yours don’t! says:

    Lock and load libs want war!

  38. avatar Alan says:

    I do not know how close we are or might be to the following situation. Reaching a time and place where the law abiding majority of the citizenry, who by the way possess more arms than do the police, and can likely shoot straighter too decide that enough is enough, opting to take the law into their own hands. Obviously, this would not be a desirable situation, but one wonders how close to the tipping point we might actually be. Your guess is as good as mine, perhaps better.

  39. avatar Boog Boi Chad says:

    My nigga Elmo gettin shit LIT on Sensimilla Street!!!

    ThE kIdS jUsT wAnT tO B O O G 🐺🐑🐑

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