Hunter: Carrying A Gun Doesn’t Make Americans as Worthy of the Responsibility as Cops or Soldiers

open carry holster gun

JWT for TTAG

The quote of the day is presented by Guns.com.

I don’t say (that America’s relationship to guns has to change) as some sort of anti-gun absolutist. There was a time in my life, about 15 years ago, when I regularly carried a firearm for protection. My friend and client, Brenda Paz, had been murdered for helping law enforcement prosecute MS-13, and apparently I was next on their list. When the judge overseeing the case ordered that the U.S. Attorney, the FBI and the U.S. Marshals Service do everything appropriate to ensure my safety, the first thing I did (on their advice) was get myself a gun.

Within a few hours, I had a concealed handgun permit and my first handgun – a Sig Sauer P230 compact .380ACP in stainless steel, a weapon specifically designed for concealed carry. One of the agents tasked with investigating Brenda’s murder and protecting me helped me pick it out, counseling me to choose something I could really live with. I’ll never forget what he told me about carrying a gun, because I think he’s right: If you really do need it, you need it all the time. If you don’t need it all the time, you have to ask yourself whether you really need it at all.

Carrying that gun was a tremendous blessing for me, because it allowed me to go about my life (almost) just like I had before, with the confidence that I had deadly force at hand if I needed it. And much like at least some of the open (and concealed) carry enthusiasts complaining about Walmart this week, I did my best to be a careful, responsible, well-prepared gun owner, ready to protect others as well as myself.

But over time, I learned something that I wish more gun owners knew: Carrying a gun isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. I learned that most people I encountered actually didn’t feel better knowing that I had a gun. And, though I tried to keep it concealed in a hip holster under a shirt or jacket, the people who inevitably did glimpse it frequently wondered why I had it and whether my gun or my presence put them in danger — like the staff and customers who panicked at that Walmart in Missouri. Even the people who knew and trusted me — knowing that I was a responsible gun owner who had been threatened — wondered if being near me in public exposed them to the same danger in which I’d found myself.

I also learned that carrying a gun — even with a license, training and a real need for it — doesn’t make me as worthy of that responsibility as real cops and soldiers are, and it didn’t make me an action movie hero. Yes, I had a real, articulable need to carry a firearm and I carried one of the best made and engineered handguns available on my hip — which would have been super cool to 16-year-old me, but I didn’t have the training or responsibility of a real cop and I wasn’t any Jason Bourne.

– Greg Hunter in Walmart banned open carry and I know why. I paid attention when I carried my gun around.

 

 

comments

  1. avatar RayfromBama says:

    A man has to know his limitations.

    1. avatar napresto says:

      True. And this author has… many. Starting with the fact that he was unable to conceal a small CCW pistol successfully and kept revealing it to friends, family, and strangers.

      1. avatar Joe nobody says:

        If I’m not mistaken this article was first published by NBC, and to add to my speculation concerning it’s legitimacy I ask – what law enforcement officer would advise the carrying of a 380 over a 9mm that has more stopping power, cheaper ammo, and can be found in the same easy to conceal size?

        I thought I went to “The Truth About Guns” but must’ve accidentally wondered into “Parroting MSM Lies About Guns” instead.

        1. avatar arc says:

          One size fits all and 380 is the default CCW caliber. I do prefer 9mm though.

        2. avatar napresto says:

          Caliber choice depends a lot on where/how you carry, and .380 isn’t a bad choice for many contexts. It might just make the difference between carrying today or not carrying today for some.

          (I also suspect that there’s a near 100% overlap between the set of people who wouldn’t want to get shot with a .380 and the set of people who wouldn’t want to get shot with a 9mm…)

        3. avatar BusyBeef says:

          Stopping power isn’t a thing.

        4. avatar Joe nobody says:

          @napresto – just because I don’t want hit with 22lr shotshell doesn’t make it a viable self defense round; yes 380 is where defense calibers start but it’s like a donut spare tire – better than nothing but I wouldn’t recommend driving all day everyday on it.

          @busybeef – you’re an idiot, if “stopping power isn’t a thing” I challenge you to shoot an adult bear with the 22lr shotshell previously mentioned.

          If your assailant is on drugs even a 9mm may not be enough to stop them before they can cause you serious harm; which is why I carry a .45 and even a full size can be effectively concealed with the proper holster.

        5. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Nobody, he did address the fact that this was around 15 years back, when far fewer mini pistols were available and especially in 9mm. What I found interesting was that he has a license to conceal in hours, makes me curious if he was somewhere that I could have obtained that license in one day?!

        6. avatar raz-0 says:

          To those questioning .380 vs. 9mm. There’d be a reason to go .380 in a different gun. However the p230 is huge for a .380, and if sig is your jam, the p239 is almost identical in size and by all accounts was more reliable (had a friend who was cross shopping various smaller 9mm guns back around that time). The walther ppk with a glandular problem didn’t have a great rep.

          The author, possibly non-existent, also has a gross over estimation of the shooting skills of a police officer and how much training soldiers get with a pistol. Most departments around here have an annual qualification which is not that different from many states CCW qualification course, and they are forced to shoot it once a year. It’s hard enough getting them to do that in many instances. And while many officers go above and beyond that, I would be very doubtful it’s the majority based on my experience.

          Soldiers, at least if infantry or other fighting forces, get to know the rifle, and more importantly get a lot of training in team tactics, but that’s not CCW, and most soldiers I’ve met with any significant pistol training did it on their own time and dime with maybe some portion of training ammo sponsored by uncle sam.

        7. avatar Voldamort says:

          Joe Nobody:
          “must’ve accidentally wondered into “Parroting MSM Lies About Guns” instead.”
          It wasn’t that way here until it was taken over by Wide Open Media a couple of years ago. As it is, every day they become more and more like Bloomberg.
          It’s almost like Wide Open Media is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bloomberg, inc. But since it’s a private corporation, it’s ownership is not public, so there’s no way to find out, short of a subpoena to examine their private records.

        8. avatar Joe nobody says:

          @voldamort – thanks for the clarification, that makes a LOT of sense.

        9. avatar Voldamort says:

          Joe Nobody:
          You are very welcome. Glad to pass on some things I set out to find out about after they banned me here for asking uncomfortable (for TTAG) questions.
          I had to download and set up ToR to return, and even now, I still cannot even mention my old username without being stuffed down the memory hole. That’s how I came to be Voldamort, or “He who cannot be named…”. Hint: It used to be Norwegian for Kenneth.

        10. avatar rt66paul says:

          15 years ago, there were not the choices for CCW there are today. While you can get a tiny 9mm these days, many are not comfortable shooting them. A .380 is a fine choice and can be carried all the time(the older 9mm handguns not so much. The whole point is that you if you need to be armed all the time, get a firearm that you are comfortable carrying all the time.
          I do not see many people willing to stand up and be shot at by a .380, so I feel it is a real firearm.

        11. avatar No One Special says:

          “get a firearm that you are comfortable carrying all the time”

          Or even a couple three just to have options as the mood and day changes.

      2. avatar Druid says:

        The author is actually full of shit! There is no criteria for your second amendment rights, other than being a citizen. This idea of being worthy, or maybe not worthy enough stems from the futile system. By the same notion the most worthy King can decide who is worthy or not.
        This is not the American system! Its monarchy!
        I think what he is trying to convince us of, is
        that it’s not our place to decide if we can own arms or not. His view point is not prow second amendment, but instead its the very viewpoint that time, and time again has lead humanity into slavery!

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          While I do agree that for the most part our system of government can be an exercise in futility… I believe you were probably referencing the “FEUDAL” system whiich was a medieval societal system lasting some 600 years comprised basically of landed lords and manors who controlled the serfs and peasants who worked the land . Seems someone who calls themself DRUID would be up to speed on that… Just sayin’….

    2. avatar Huntmaster says:

      As an ex military person myself, I have a news flash for this guy. Being a cop or soldier doesn’t make you an action hero either. From personal experience I can tell you they put their pants on pretty much the same way everybody else does. And like every other group, getting in the door doesn’t necessarily mean you belong.

      1. avatar AP says:

        Most of the people I know personally who conceal carry practice more than most LEOs.

      2. avatar Retrocon says:

        I was an Army MP 30 years ago. Didn’t make me better suited to carry as a civilian…

        Practice did. And I know for a fact that I can outshoot most police, and since I take the responsibility and right to carry seriously, I also consider scenarios constantly.

        The most important point. If a violent crime happens in my presence, the police are 5-10 minutes away. I am right there… in that Walmart. Near that school. In that park with the “No Guns” sign.

        The author of this article has his opinion, it’s just the opinion of an uneducated, brainwashed, serf.

        1. avatar Jon says:

          “I was an Army MP”

          I’m sorry

          Sincerely,
          Former 11B

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Just over 30 years ago I qualified expert with a handgun for the last time with USAF, in the company of about 25 Air Policemen, 6 of whom (including their commander) did not qualify at all. At the time, I had not fired a handgun in over 5 years. On my way to Vietnam in 1971, I also qualified expert with the M-16, while half the class failed to qualify at all. Don’t think someone’s job means he knows shit about any particular subject, especially shooting.

        3. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          Can’t spell Wimp without a MP!

          Sorry j/k ..Old joke from 30 years ago.

          Sincerely

          Former 11C

      3. avatar Fitty Poisent Poivoit says:

        “…they put their pants on pretty much the same way everybody else does.”
        Oh please, I sincerely hope not! My ex-brother-in-law and his sister were both Chicago Cops. I would NEVER, ever, in a kajillion years, watch HIM put on his pants.
        Her?
        YOWZA, YOWZA, YOWZA, !!

  2. avatar D says:

    And this is the mindset that must be challenged, that somehow someone who is not a service member or cop doesn’t have a responsibility to protect themselves and those they love!

    Will you do! If you choose not to carry that’s fine, but don’t assume you get to pick for me. Besides plenty of cops and soldiers don’t feel the need to be responsible for others.

    1. avatar Cruzo1981 says:

      It’s been established in 2 court cases here in the US that police have do not have to out themselves in danger to help anyone!!!!!!

    2. avatar BusyBeef says:

      When seconds count . . . . .

    3. avatar G. W. says:

      The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled, on several occasions, that the authority’s are not responsible for the safety and rights of the civilian population. That makes it the civilian population’s responsibility, by default, does it not?

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Not exactly, but the distinction is a bit obscure. The police have a “general duty” to protect “the public,” i.e., a duty to run to the sound of gun fire, investigate crimes, etc., but no specific duty, absent an express agreement to the contrary, to any individual member of the public.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Reality is that most cops are more revenue gatherers than protectors….

        2. avatar Frank says:

          so a bunch of horse shit —- and you are still your own first responder

    4. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      It’s interesting that the writer, someone with legal training, is so completely obtuse about the meaning of 2nd Amendment. When he tells us that America’s relationship with guns has to change, what he’s really saying is that the fundamental concepts of freedom and liberty on which this country was founded have to change. He’s telling us that he believes we should surrender our liberty and become less free so that people like him can feel safer. The fact that he was apparently an important person of some sort most definitely does not give him a moral imperative to dictate right and wrong to the rest of us. Trading freedom for safety is always a bad deal. So, no think you, I’ll keep my right to keep and bear arms just as our founders intended.

  3. avatar billy-bob says:

    If you actually trained as you say, you probably had more range time than your average cop.

    1. avatar PK says:

      Something tells me he would refuse to believe that…

      1. avatar Ian in Transit says:

        Refuse or accept, it’s still true. If the general populace understood the minimum firearms proficiency policy of the average police officer they would probably want them all disarmed.

        1. avatar PK says:

          No kidding!

        2. avatar Ron says:

          I just read in another article (I’ll search for it and add a link later), that LEO’s have about a 15% hit ratio.
          So, practice, practice, practice.
          And practice some more.
          85% misses ain’t nothing to brag about.

        3. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          My favorite news stories end wirh “four cops fired 137 shots at the perp who was taken into custody with 2 minor wounds caused by a shattered window from the neighbors second story bedroom which was inadvertently hit by at least two of the officers.. And these are the guys that Robert Francis in going to send to confiscate your guns…

        4. avatar Batterycap says:

          It’s the honest to God truth. Here in GA, it takes a six week course to become a LEO. The training center is off to the right on I-75 right before you pass Forsyth, GA on I-75 southbound. For the vast majority of prospective LEO’s this training gives them the first opportunity they have ever had to touch a firearm. Guns were not their thing before training, and are not their thing after training. It’s just a tool. There is no desire to explore the world of firearms or to read in the area.

          No criticism here – just observing. If the observation is anywhere close to correct, it gives one as much of a reason as possible to tread lightly when around these lightly trained officers.

        5. avatar Mark N. says:

          Ron: shot proficiency6 varies widely by department. IN NY, it is pretty close to 15% now, used to be closer to 20%. That is a pretty solid number for cops who don’t like guns, don’t like to practice with their guns, and especially do jot like taking their personal time and ammo to go practice when their department doesn’t have the budget to provide sufficient training, practice, and above all ammo. Around here, the shot proficiency among sheriff’s officers who enjoy shooting is closer to 50%, and sometimes higher. The CHP not so much.

        6. avatar LarryinTX says:

          I have a relative who got a job with a private company as a gate guard at a military installation. After a couple years, the job requirements were changed to require the guards to carry guns. He was quite willing to carry a gun, but told anyone who asked that he would be running away a long time before he ever even drew that gun.

    2. avatar Bcb says:

      I have a friend who ran the yearly firearm qualifications within his dept and area. According to him it was scary how inept most law enforcement were in his area when it came to firearms. Only a regional sample and secondhand but I trust him.

  4. avatar Cruzo1981 says:

    2 things:
    1. You want to be a subject, ok you can choose to do that
    2. People don’t want to be around inexperienced people with weird attitudes who are under death threat from MS13…

    1. avatar enuf says:

      “2. People don’t want to be around inexperienced people with weird attitudes who are under death threat from MS13…”

      Exactly so. If someone told me they were carrying specifically because an extremely violent and determined criminal gang had a kill order out on them, I wouldn’t want to be around him either. Armed or unarmed or hiding in a basement someplace, no thank you.

      1. avatar Druid says:

        The first rule in marital arts is ,”Don’t be there!”
        If you think your going to have to defend your life. Then you should avoid that situation. Unless you have no choise. “No choise doesn’t mean that you want to.”
        I won’t argue a point with anyone, when Im packing. Because I don’t want anything to escalate.
        If you have to use deadly force to defend yourself, you better have a very good reason.
        The Cooper four colors of awareness is something to live by.
        Be aware of your surroundings and avoid the trouble.

        1. avatar enuf says:

          Pardon my mirth, I am not disagreeing with you.

          But as for “Marital Arts”, hell yeah, one of my all time favorites! Been That! Done There! Got the Babies! The Divorce! The “World’s Best Dad Coffee Mug! All of it!

          Good Times 🙂

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Yeah, I have been there for the marital arts and enjoyed hell out of it!

      2. avatar MyName says:

        Precisely what I was thinking – maybe the reason your friends and acquaintances shy away from you is not the gun but the fact that you pissed off a violent criminal gang.

  5. avatar Mad Max says:

    So, where are those service members and cops when the mugger jumps you on the street, a bunch of thugs invade your home, or a bear attacks you?

    Just minutes (or hours or days) away….

    Every citizen has a need and a responsibility to carry a firearm for defense of themselves, their family, and their neibhors.

    Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

    1. avatar Ogre says:

      I agree with what you say, except that when I carry I consider myself to have no responsibility to protect people other than myself or my immediate familty (if they’re around – they live an hour away and own guns). Other people are responsible for protecting themselves and if they haven ‘t got the tools or ability to do so, well, tough luck on them.

      The article’s author sounds like he is/was a prosecutor who was given special consideration by the cops/FBI because of the specific MS-13 threat against him. He didn’t mention what training he was given, just that he (very quickly) got a concealed carry permit and a pistol, and that he felt better because of it. You can confidently bet that Joe or Jill Sixpack, if he/she were under direct gang threat (or any other threat to his/her physical wellbeing), would not get that consideration.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        Depends. Some states will issue emergency CCW permits to those people under threat. Colorado will do it for anyone over the age of 18.

        Surprisingly courts take it pretty seriously. It’s a couple days from petition to it being granted in many cases including for people under 21. I’ve known two women under 21 who did this and both had a judge grant them the permit and were in legal possession of a pistol within 36 hours.

        Of course if you’re under 21 you have to have someone else buy a pistol for you, but after that you’re g2g.

        1. avatar JIM says:

          That is what the Feds call a “STRAW PURCHASE”, someone else buy a gun for you.

          “Yes, I had a real, articulable need to carry a firearm and I carried one of the best made and engineered handguns available on my hip — which would have been super cool to 16-year-old me, but I didn’t have the training or responsibility of a real cop and I wasn’t any Jason Bourne.”

          Is he stating he is “SIXTEEN” years old?

        2. avatar Cloudbuster says:

          It’s only a straw purchase if the recipient is not lawfully allowed to possess the gun. In many states people under 21 cannot *buy* a handgun, but they can *possess* one.

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Cloudbuster, that is not correct. Just what the exception is I am not certain, but there was a recent story about a cop who bought a gun for a friend so as to access his cop discount, and going to jail for a “straw purchase”, even though the friend was perfectly able to buy the gun, just wanted to pay less.

          OTOH, I know you can buy a gun for your child and allow him to possess it prior to him being old enough, without suffering punishment.

        4. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “OTOH, I know you can buy a gun for your child and allow him to possess it prior to him being old enough, without suffering punishment.”

          From my reading, it seems you can buy for another (legally eligible to own) only if it is intended for a gift.

        5. avatar strych9 says:

          Jesus Christ, fucking seriously? Gun people who don’t know fuck all about the gun laws?

          Federal Law states that it’s illegal to possess a handgun without supervision if you are under the age of 18 or buy FROM AN FFL if you are under the age of 21. Private sales to someone under the age of 21 but over the age of 18 are federally legal and good to go.

          A straw purchase is defined as “acting as the agent of” a person “you have reason to believe is a prohibited person”.

          IOW, you can buy a gun for your friend, relative, some guy off the street UNLESS you have reason to think they’re prohibited from possession. You can sell them one of YOUR guns and not have it be a straw purchase under ANY circumstances because you didn’t act as their “agent”.

          Everything else is down to state law. So, quite clearly if a State judge says a 19 year old girl can have a CCW permit for emergency reasons and daddy gives her a pistol it’s legal under both state and federal law.

          This is not that fucking hard people. Christ, if you don’t know fucking use a search engine or maybe hit up atf.gov before you fucking run your goddamn fingers.

          Also, JIM, I said in my OP “Colorado will do it for anyone over the age of 18.”. I never said sixteen, you made that up. Since you insist on creating bullshit arguments out of thin air I will say the following: Take your bullshit outside and play a nice game of hide-and-go-fuck-yourself. People like you are the reason we can’t have nice things. Because stupid motherfuckers like you can’t learn to just STFU when they have no fucking clue what they’re talking about. Then on top of that they have to lie about what other people said to try to make a point.

          You’re stupid. Get smarter or just fuck off.

        6. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “A straw purchase is defined as “acting as the agent of” a person “you have reason to believe is a prohibited person”. ”

          The ATF sees things differently:
          https://www.atf.gov/file/58686/download
          (page166, sec 15)

          An prohibited person is not required for a purchase/transfer to be “straw”.

          Oh, and there’s this from the SC:
          https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/supreme-court-tightens-definition-straw-purchase
          (both participants were eligible to purchase firearms, but lost.)

        7. avatar strych9 says:

          I had forgotten about this case. I’d have to concede that yes, it’s possible to “straw purchase” for someone who can legally buy. Either way that crux is that whole “acting as the agent of” thing since they way they got him was by him admitting that he was buying the gun for someone else with full expectation of payment for doing so. Giving your daughter a gun doesn’t qualify under either count and is therefore immaterial. Further, you can legally BUY a pistol at 18 years old provided your state allows it.

          If one wanted to split hairs it could be argued that the ATF’s language is overbroad. It’s not a “straw purchase” if the second person is legal but rather a set of false statements on a federal form which is technically different but, ultimately in front of a judge, immaterial.

          However, this case also raises some questions about the legality of using a credit or debit card with your name on it if you don’t pay the bills. It’s common for parents to underwrite a credit card for their kids while the kids are in college. Husbands pay the bills on wifey’s cards sometimes too. The card has the kid’s/wife’s name on it but the bills go to mom and dad or hubby. Is that legal? Arguably not.

          What happens if a young lady is being stalked by a violent psycho while in college, informs her parents of this, tells them she wants to buy a gun and dad says “Put in on your credit card, don’t worry about it. I just want you to be safe sweety”? It’s not her paying the bill, he’s paying the bill. She has no expectation of paying the bill and he has every expectation of paying the bill. Is that a straw purchase? A oddball reverse straw purchase? Under this SCOTUS decision (thanks Kagan) it could be argued that such a thing is illegal because the court says it’s all about who has a reasonable expectation of paying for the gun. What if he tosses in the caveat “Just make sure you keep your grades up”? Is that the service he expects in return for paying for the gun?

          Does it become illegal if the daughter tries to pay dad back later? What if wifey is super happy about her new toy and sucks her husband off? Are these now straw purchases? Arguably they both are. In fact, one could also be considered prostitution.

        8. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Does it become illegal if the daughter tries to pay dad back later?”

          “Later” is relative, and could make a big difference.

          As you noted, when you play with government, you must play by government rules, no matter how obtuse.

          OSHA requires very loud warning alarms when mechanized equipment is operated in reverse EPA mandates ear protection above a certain dB threshold. California SC declares that a law impossible to comply with is not invalid, and one can be held accountable for non-compliance.

        9. avatar No One Special says:

          “OSHA requires very loud warning alarms when mechanized equipment is operated in reverse EPA mandates ear protection above a certain dB threshold. California SC declares that a law impossible to comply with is not invalid, and one can be held accountable for non-compliance.”

          Imagine what would be necessary if there were no stupidity in the world and everyone had wisdom (common sense). That would be a utopia for sure. One that also doesn’t exist.

        10. avatar strych9 says:

          The problem, under that ruling, isn’t that the rules are “obtuse”. It’s that it’s literally impossible to know what is or what is not legal, or what might be determined in the future to not have been legal even though you followed the letter of the law. It’s not even a situation where you “can’t comply”. You can’t know if you’re complying or not until you get charged for not complying. Even if you don’t get charged you don’t know if you complied or just didn’t get caught.

          Worse, attempting to comply can be admission on non-compliance to some standard arbitrarily set without your knowledge and possibly after the fact.

          Under the right circumstances they’ve pretty much got you in a position where in order to make sure you can’t be charged you have to break the law by agreeing in advance to lie about who had made what determination and exactly when they did it. IOW, you have to conspire to defraud, and therefore make false statements on the 4473 to make sure the story holds together in the future just in case someone wants to look at the past and decide a crime was committed after the fact.

          Hilariously, in many cases with comingling of funds like this you almost have to conspire not to comply just to ensure that no one can say you didn’t comply.

          You do this by agreeing “This was a gift” in advance, which by definition under the law and ATF rules, means it’s quite specifically NOT a gift because the recipient knew about it in advance but if you both lie just right they cannot prove that you broke the law.

        11. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “You do this by agreeing “This was a gift” in advance, which by definition under the law and ATF rules, means it’s quite specifically NOT a gift because the recipient knew about it in advance but if you both lie just right they cannot prove that you broke the law.”

          “…concern for one’s safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn’t have to; but if he didn’t want to he was sane and had to.”

        12. avatar Huntmaster says:

          All this crap is why juries exist. They are there to take the process out of the hands of the legal professionals and ensure one is not judged by incomprehensible standard.

        13. avatar Mad Max says:

          Pennsylvania has the parent, spouse, child, grandparent, grandchild exemption under Title 18 Section 6111.

      2. avatar LampofDiogenes says:

        Ogre,

        SLIGHT disagreement with you. I personally choose to possess/carry to defend myself and my family. My choice. And I recognize that everyone else (other than “prohibited persons”) has the RIGHT to make the same choice. But I also, personally, believe that exercising that right gives me a corresponding RESPONSIBILITY to do it properly. I have received fairly extensive training. I practice regularly. If someone is not willing to do that? OK, they have the RIGHT to do it . . . but I sure as hell wish they wouldn’t.

        If ya ain’t gonna do it right, please don’t do it at all. I’m NOT saying you don’t have the right to, I’m just saying that you’re not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by exercising your right irresponsibly. Sorry, that’s just my opinion, but I think that is the only responsible way to be a gun owner/carrier.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          And you are entitled to your opinion. But some years back it was reported in the news that an old guy, I think around 80, had shot and killed an armed intruder in his home who was threatening him and his wife. He stated that was the first shot he had fired in his life.
          The biggest factor in your ability to defend yourself and others is the possession of a loaded gun. Training is a great idea. However, I had owned a gun for over 10 years and had several thousand rounds through my first Python, before I ever received any training because none was available. That first training was in the military, in 1969, and it was decades longer before I heard of anyone offering any manner of firearms training commercially.

        2. avatar John in Ohio says:

          “And I recognize that everyone else (other than “prohibited persons”) has the RIGHT to make the same choice. ”

          Every individual possesses the unalienable individual right to keep and bear arms. Exercise of that right might be infringed when someone is under the legitimate guardianship of another. But, the underlying right is still in the possession of the individual.

          “Prohibited persons” is a legal fiction of a tyrannical government that doesn’t want to abide by the mandate that the Second Amendment places upon it. Assault rifles, gunshow loopholes, fully semiautomatic, etc are all up there with tyrannical Newspeak such as prohibited person. You might as well type unperson and go all 1984 with it.

        3. avatar John in Ohio says:

          “If ya ain’t gonna do it right, please don’t do it at all. I’m NOT saying you don’t have the right to, I’m just saying that you’re not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by exercising your right irresponsibly.”

          Do you have a lot of training in English, logic, and the like? “If ya ain’t gonna do it right (exercising free speech), please don’t do it at all. I’m just saying that you’re not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by exercising your right irresponsibly.” Doesn’t that statement strike you as stupidity personified when examined under the lens of other individual rights? If it doesn’t then here’s your sign.

          “Sorry, that’s just my opinion, but I think that is the only responsible way to be a gun owner/carrier.”

          Yeah, you should be sorry for your entire comment.

  6. avatar Michael Bane says:

    What other people FEEL falls under the heading of “Other’s People’s Problems.”

    If seeing a gun frightens them that much, I would urge them to seek therapy help.

    1. avatar Phil Wilson says:

      Exactly. That sentiment tags him as a collectivist(leftist), or at least someone inclined to think like one. And the whole point of the article is about how he FEELS about carrying. I’m all for him feeling good about his situation, as long as he doesn’t try to force his crap on me.

    2. avatar Ed Schrade says:

      A few weeks ago I was in a Wal mart in Texas and noticed a man open carrying. The only thing that came to my mind was, I wonder what caliber he’s carrying ?

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Funny, that’s the same thing I always think, whether the gun I see is on a private citizen’s hip or in a LEO’s. I inch a little closer to get a better look to see the make/model/caliber. Sometimes I even strike up a conversation and ask. When a carrier gets verbal support from a fellow gun owner, it helps validate their decision to own and carry.

      2. avatar sparkyinWI says:

        Thank you and this^^^ Seeing a firearm carried in no way makes me feel fear. I find that irrational actually. It would be the same as saying you feel fear seeing a person with a phone go into their car. Unless either one is seen doing something wrong or stupid with their firearm or phone, it does not matter.

    3. avatar James Campbell says:

      So true. Sorry, your “feelings” don’t come before my rights.
      Be sure to bring them feelings up at your next therapy session. If you aren’t in therapy, get signed up for some. As for me, the time/money you spend on therapy, I’ll use at the range.
      I’ll sleeping well at night too, while you lay awake “stressing” over gun ownership, or taking drugs to help you shut down your “triggered” mind.
      Enjoy that distorted view of reality you regressive leftists, like the one where LEOs are there to defend you and your family when things go sideways.

      1. avatar 4808 N says:

        A fresh new twist on self-loathing…

        1. avatar No One Special says:

          Self
          a person’s essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action.

          Loathe
          feel intense dislike or disgust for

          I might be wrong but the comment you replied to doesn’t seem to fit the definition of the term you referred to. They actually seemed quite content with themselves.

  7. avatar S.Crock says:

    Most Army soldiers are POGs who are only required to shoot a rifle twice per year. That often doesn’t happen and its more like once per year. A 58% accuracy score is required (23/40) to pass and be qualified. That in no way makes the average soldier more qualified or responsible than any civilian who puts a few boxes of ammo through their carry gun and takes a class. I will say that service members do have better trigger discipline than a lot of civilians.

    1. avatar Huntmaster says:

      In my experience we only visited the pistol range every couple of years. Fired a total of 50 rounds of government ammunition in four years at one command. We carried but never actually trained with long guns or even fired live rounds. But we were also armed with tactical nukes. We dry fired them once or twice a year. Never got to do any live fire training with them either.

      1. avatar Huntmaster says:

        I sometimes wondered if they would have really worked or were they just bullshitting us.

  8. avatar Bill in OR says:

    I read this as just another gun control screed. That only soldiers and police can/should carry. Everyday people should not. I do not see myself as a ‘frontline’ person but will be damned if i am wrong to consider the safety of my family first. Besides both the police and army are reactionary forces, always late to the party. I do not want them to be a force used to correct my (legal) ways.

  9. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    Some of the best firearms handling and shooting I’ve ever seen were in three different places; military ranges, L.E. ranges and public ranges. Some of the worst firearms handling and shooting I’ve ever seen were in three different places; military ranges, L.E. ranges and public ranges. Where one receives training has little to do with one’s proficiency with firearms. It has more to do with motivation and desire to learn how it’s correctly done.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Outstanding comment Gadsden Flag!

      I went to a private range a few days ago for a charity event. One of the events was hitting 5 steel targets (6-inch diameter) at 10 yards with a hand gun. I was consistently able to hit all 5 targets with 5 or 6 shots in less than 6.5 seconds. Keep in mind that I have never attempted anything like this before. And I was using a handgun that I have never practiced shooting before. (I did not even know if the sights were aligned — apparently they were.) The police officer in my group never even came close to that level of proficiency. And I am confident that a police officer in another group probably shot all 5 steel targets considerably faster than me.

      And I outshot the police officer in our group at the accuracy station where we put 10 carefully aimed shots into a paper target at 42 feet I believe. (And I only had one go: he did it twice and his best score was still less than my score.) Remember that I was using a handgun with which I have never practiced. Of course another police officer on another group posted a higher score than mine.

      As Gadsden Flag stated, look at any demographic and you will find an entire range of skill levels, from pretty awful to fantastic.

  10. avatar Steve M says:

    Sounds more like this guy was really paranoid about carrying his gun. People who are constantly shifting around, trying too hard to hide the gun and eyeballing other people will draw a lot of attention.

    I bet most people were wondering if he was going to do something based on his body language, not the gun.

    1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

      I love playing the “who has a gun game.”

      Bearded, Middle-age, white guy eyeballing people while fidgeting with his Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children T-shirt… that’s a sure bet every time.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        I resemble that remark…

        1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

          Might as well strap a gun to your forehead…

      2. avatar James Campbell says:

        It all depends on location. Go play that game in Detroit, or Baltimore, or Minneapolis.
        Anyone care to define THAT “typical” gun carrier.
        My point? Why is it only deemed “improper” when the demographic point to someone OTHER than defined above. Isn’t that the DEFINITION of racism? Acting/responding differently due to a certain groups characteristics?
        The left claims to be against racism, yet has perfected the art of making THEIR racism acceptable.

      3. avatar SoCalJack says:

        Let me take a stab: breard, Oakleys/tactical-shades, Grunt-Style/Line-Nine T-shirt, Plaid button down shirt, paracord bracelet, G-Shock watch, cargo pants/shorts (in coyote/ODG/Tan/Camo), Tactical/hiking boots. Walks with confident upright posture, maybe a few tattoos showing.

    2. avatar MyName says:

      Agreed, to me it sounds like he was the one calling attention to the gun.

      In my experience, only the people who know I’m carrying (family, close friends, shooting buddies) ever notice. Others? I’ve had them fail to notice an openly carried gun. Once, a couple years ago, I was on a camping trip with several people I knew and some who I’d not previously met. On the second night, of a three night trip, while we were sitting around the fire talking about plans to go out shooting the next day, one of the new guys exclaims, “hey, look, MyName is carrying a gun right now, when did you put that on?”, “Yesterday” was my reply. Not a tiny gun either, a 4″ S&W K frame in a black leather safariland holster.

      No one I can think of, who is not already aware that I carry, has ever commented on my being armed when I’m cc’ing.

  11. avatar Jon says:

    Sounds to me like he carried a gun to make himself and others feel safe, not to protect himself. If feelings are your end game and guiding factor in life, this is the conclusion you will encounter every time.

    “If you really do need it, you need it all the time. If you don’t need it all the time, you have to ask yourself whether you really need it at all”

    SO much false. SO much oversimplification. The only situation where someone can say with certainty that they do not need a gun is the past.

    1. avatar pgII says:

      “Sounds to me like he carried a gun to make himself and others feel safe, not to protect himself”-Home-run.

      Substitute the word gun for vaccination and have another home-run statement.

      1. avatar Gestee MikGestersun says:

        The names may change to get around the filters, but your vaxx spew remains the same.

      2. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and expire from cancer, Ruthie" PR says:

        “Substitute the word gun for vaccination and have another home-run statement.”

        Do us all a favor and get cancer and croak, OK?

        Expire in agony no opioid could ever dull… 🙂

        1. avatar John Bryan says:

          The irony of that would be there aren’t many cancers preventable by being vaccinated. Otherwise, though the number of specific people I wish an early demise upon is short, I thoroughly wish Page the Deuce and his brother from another mother Vlad the Impotent would both at least go away – the time savings alone from not having to scroll past their inane drivel might free up significant range time…

      3. avatar Voldamort says:

        pg 2.0
        Does it really seem like you are swaying people’s opinions, with your constant spew of useless drivel? The only reason I can think of for you to be here stumping for the same cause (without converting a single soul, but pissing off uncounted dozens, half of whom call you every name in the book) a year later, is someone is paying you to do so.

    2. avatar TheUnspoken says:

      Chances are most people won’t need to defend themselves with a gun. Or use their seatbelts, or airbags. Probably more likely to need that spare tire, or tire pump. Or that flashlight or extra batteries. May not need to use that fire extinguisher, smoke alarm, or defibrillator machine. Yet people frequently have such things ready, on the chance that yes, they will need them, and in that moment it is difficult to go get what you need if you didn’t bring it or stage it there in advance.

    3. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

      “The only situation where someone can say with certainty that they do not need a gun is the past.”

      Great line…I hope you don’t mind if I plagiarize it.

    4. avatar napresto says:

      “If you really do need it, you need it all the time. If you don’t need it all the time, you have to ask yourself whether you really need it at all.”

      A common sentiment, but it ignores a lot of specific context for each and every carrier out there. For example, I work on a college campus (in NY state, no less, don’t get me started), and my job regularly requires me to a.) go to other college campuses, and b.) travel out of state and out of the country. Many of my friends are also academics with a decidedly liberal bent. In that context, I carry as often as I am legally able to, but this typically amounts to weekends and some evenings when I am not already home. Because I respect my friends’ property rights, I choose not to carry in some of their homes, knowing that they wouldn’t want me to and that the chances I would need a firearm are, in any case, vanishingly small in those environments. I ALWAYS carry in places like gas stations, Wal-Mart, etc. because the chances of bad things happening in those public spaces, while still very unlikely, are higher.

      So does all this mean I should toss my pistols and decide to NEVER take responsibility for my own safety? No. No it doesn’t.

  12. avatar Kendahl says:

    Unless you are a soldier or a cop, you have no duty to carry a gun. It’s something you do for yourself and your loved ones. Going armed is the ultimate form of the statement, “Even if the rest of the world goes to hell, I’m not going to let it drag me down with it. Violent crime stops at the boundary of my personal space.”

    “Concealed” doesn’t mean “covered up most of the time”. It means no one knows you are armed unless you tell them. If strangers “glimpse it frequently”, it’s not really concealed. I’m willing to cut Hunter a lot of slack on this given the severity of the threat he faced. For him, accessibility was more important than deep concealment. For most of us, the priority should be concealment. A .32, .38 or .380 in a pocket holster is completely out of sight all of the time.

  13. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    “..but I didn’t have the training or responsibility of a real cop and I wasn’t any Jason Bourne.”

    That’s nice. I mean it, that’s really nice. Most people never really evaluate themselves honestly, and even fewer ever admit to their shortcomings in any aspect of that evaluation.

    But…….

    You are presenting your self evaluation in such a way to lead me to believe that I should come to a similar conclusion in my self evaluation. You are presenting it as if anyone who isn’t Jason Bourne should go ahead and quit carrying their firearms. I’ve got a problem with that. A big problem. I don’t compare my abilities to fictional characters or to some perceived standard of someone who wears a special outfit. I mean compare myself to those people on a score card, like can I shoot a better score than they can at the range, but I don’t compare my abilities to theirs because my situation is different than theirs. Or yours.

    You evaluate you and make whatever decisions you think you need to make based on that evaluation. I will do the same with me. We can compare notes, but if you think your evaluation should somehow apply to anyone other than you you are not only arrogant for thinking it, but also wrong.

    1. avatar TheUnspoken says:

      Jason Bourne apparently doesn’t need to carry a gun either, since he violently defends himself with rolled up magazines and newspapers, and pens, and cars. Since I am not a fictional traumatized super solider I will need to use my more ordinary mindset, training, plus any tools available to me for self defense, including one of the best current tools available, a handgun. Why wouldn’t I pick the best tool for the job?

  14. avatar Klokwurk says:

    If people were nervous because they saw his “concealed” firearm then he was obviously doing it wrong. This piece is written by someone who is anti gun yet admitted the fact that it’s a great self-protection plan.

  15. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    If you were marked for DEATH by MS-13 you WERE putting other people in danger with or without a gun on your hip.. Those assholes will kill 20 people just to get one, they have no regard for human life… I’ve carried a gun daily since the mid 70s and I will continue to carry as long as I draw breath.. I guess I don’t fully understand your argument, what is the difference between a “real” cop or a soldier and an ex-cop or soldier (or Marine in my case) and any civilian that is honestly concerned about his or her safety and the lives of those around them.. The only difference I have seen between myself and a real cop is that I practice with my weapon way more than the cop (AND most likely had a lot more training) and I take the responsibility that comes with carrying that gun just as seriously as any LE or military person, and maybe more so because if I have to use mine and I’m wrong I’m screwed so I have to make sure I’m looking at a gun being pulled out of a pocket and not a cell phone, not sure if I could get away with shooting someone armed with a knife fron 30 feet away either, but a “responsible” cop can… Don’t dump ALL gun owners and concealed/open carriers into one basket we are just like any other group, some are proficient and responsible some are just hobbyists and a few are stupid and careless but news flash no matter what our profession or the choices we make, we all swam out of the same pool..

  16. avatar bryan1980 says:

    Well, first off, I’m not getting paid to carry my gun around. My gun is for protection of me and mine. I don’t go around thinking I’m a cop, and neither do most people who carry.

    Secondly, this guy needs to realize that cops aren’t obligated to protect anyone, either. The gun they carry is for their protection. Really, the only difference between us and them (legally, anyways) is that they have powers of arrest.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      If you’re witnessing a felony in progress, then you typically have the legal power to arrest as well.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        But consider your abilities. I’m old and weak and disabled, I am unable to get into the “arrest” mode. If I witness most felonies, I’ll mind my own business. If the situation is dire enough and I get the opportunity, I will shoot the perp without warning, then be prepared to shoot him again. Note I did not say “suspect”, if I have a doubt I’ll stand down.

  17. avatar Juice says:

    The other option would be to change your mindset about not feeling you need to carry all the time. Choose to take on that added responsibility.

  18. avatar Wiregrass says:

    I find it kind of ironic that the very people he is saying are more worthy of the responsibility advised him to get a gun. And I think that if I had an actual threat on my life from people like MS-13, I carry a bit more firepower than a pocket 380.

    1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

      +1

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Wiregrass,

      And I think that if I had an actual threat on my life from people like MS-13, I carry a bit more firepower than a pocket 380.

      Exactly!!!

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        A .380 would likely be my choice, since it’s light weight on my hip would assist me in carrying an extra 30-rd mag for the AR in my hand.

    3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Though I myself prefer a 9mm, a .380 will do the trick. What I’d do is train, train, and train with it so the bullet will go where I point the gun.

      1. avatar Voldamort says:

        I also. But then I had little choice in the matter. I grew up in NE Montana and my Dad paid me to shoot gophers, rabbits, prairie dogs, porcupines, and skunks. A nickel for a gopher tail, up to a buck for skunks and porkies. That kept me in ammo, so it was obvious to me, even at the age of 10, that the less I missed, the better off I’d be.
        Consequently, I’ve always thought in terms of exactly where I wanted the hole to appear, rather than as a circle that was just “close enough”.

    4. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      I was thinking that if I only had 7+1 I’d want it a .357 or better. If MS13 is after me, I’m carring a double stack 9, a 32 round happy stick or 4ish standard size mags and having a shotgun and/or AR in the trunk. I may not get to them but if things go longer than a few seconds I’ll have em. Also body armor is a likely part of my day too something that’ll stop a 9mm. I sure as hell am not going to reveal that I’m carrying at least with something like that.

      How this guy was showing his shit to anyone is amazing to me. He must have practically been brandishing or CCing in a speedo for people to get off their phones and notice.

      1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

        Really? You’d be carrying around a 32-rd mag? So, your “double stack 9mm” (a standard Glock, then) with a fun stick poking out the bottom? And you’re going to conceal that, how? Or are you going to simply walk around with that Fat Boy strapped to your hip in open carry, with the mag sticking way out behind you?

        Nice try, keyboard kommando. Just say “I’ll be carrying something I feel comfortable with” instead of trying to brag your way into everyone’s good graces here.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Guesty McGuesterson,

          I believe Andrew Lias is saying that he would carry a double-stack 9mm Luger pistol with its standard 16 or 17-round magazine in the grip and a spare 32-round magazine on his belt.

        2. avatar Voldamort says:

          Personally, IF I actually had MS-13 gunning for me after killing a friend of mine, I’d be in a hardened room with an armory, and the entrance covered by claymores. Then I’d just put myself in the red circle and wait for them to take the bait….
          But maybe that’s just me 🙂

  19. avatar Scooter says:

    Check out stats of gun “mishaps” as well as violent crimes comparing concealed carriers and cops. That whole “they’re better trained” or “only they are suited to this” BS evaporates in the light of the data. I carry because when seconds count, police are only minutes away. I’m my first responder. Guns are easier to carry than a piggy-back LEO. Oops, pig pun.

  20. avatar MMurcek says:

    Credential junkie

  21. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

    Nice piece of not-so-subtle anti-firearm agitprop…

    Mr. Greg Hunter: I do have the training of a real cop and military…and, I’m not a Jason Bourne…just an average guy who is more proactive in his personal and family defense than you are….and yes, it is a responsibility…your whiny point being?

    Dan, why do you print crap like this? Most of us know that there are hypocrites on the Left who use / carry firearms for their protection that firmly believe, to their core, that *we* should not have the same ability.

  22. avatar NJ2AZ says:

    “responsibility of a real cop?”

    I’m sure to some this will come off as anti-cop, but lets be honest: The police have so much less responsibility/accountability when using deadly force than an average person does.

  23. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    “I learned that most people I encountered actually didn’t feel better knowing that I had a gun.”

    You are a stupid fool for telling anyone that you carry a firearm. That is like telling a total stranger what kind of sex you practice. The general lack of education in 2A rights and responsibilities in the most serious challenge to the gun community. Marksmanship was a regular class in nearly every public school HS in this country.

    You may not own a gun as an adult. But at least you had a basic knowledge about shooting guns and gun safety. The NRA is simply not going to educate 350 million American citizens on gun rights. It ultimately needs to be done formally in a school setting.

    Unfortunately gun owners who don’t have children will never understand this. Because when they all die off there will be no one left, to teach others about this most important human right.

  24. avatar WI Patriot says:

    “Hunter: Carrying A Gun Doesn’t Make Americans as Worthy of the Responsibility as Cops or Soldiers”

    And that’s fine, it’s not my goal to take on the “Responsibility as Cops or Soldiers”, it’s my goal to protect myself and those around me…

    Having said that, I’m going to guess that hunter has NEVER been in combat, or much less even served, so that doesn’t give him the right to judge my “worthiness”…

  25. avatar JoeWay says:

    Why would anyone know you had this pistol? CCW is just what it says. No one should know you had a pistol on you. People that tell me they carry out of the blue scare me. Anyone that carries seriously has as much need to talk about that concealed pistol as their embarrassing toenail fungus. Caring a pistol is not a pi$$ing contest. Please carry responsibly.

  26. avatar Hawk says:

    With all due respect, the “worthiness” criteria you stated is flawed. The average citizen is just as “worthy” if not more so than any LEO, judge, politician or government official. Also, the “need” to carry a gun has no bearing on whether or not a U.S. citizen “wants” to carry a gun. If you don’t want the responsibility associated with carrying a gun, then don’t carry it. But many people who are less trained than LEOs have thwarted attacks with the guns they’ve carried. Many of my friends, like me, are former U.S. Army Special Forces “Green Beret” veterans. While I have the utmost respect for LEOs and fully support their role, I would put my skills and those of my friends up against any of them. It’s hard to match that level of military training and actual experience in combat. And even less trained citizens may decide they would rather be armed and use their gun for self-defense or in the defense of others instead of waiting on LEO to arrive. We may plan to never put ourselves in a situation prone to attack such as walking down the sidewalk in a drug dealing portion of town at 2 am. But in today’s world all you have to do is take the family to Walmart when the unexpected happens. You have apparently made your decision and I respect that, but please don’t suggest everyday citizens really aren’t “worthy” of carrying concealed, can’t be trusted to use it effectively or that they cannot do so responsibly. That is simply not true.

  27. avatar JStar says:

    If you really do need it, you need it all the time. If you don’t need it all the time, you have to ask yourself whether you really need it at all.

    Yes, I only put my seatbelt on when I know I am in danger of being in an accident. Likewise, I only have insurance on my house when I think it may burn down.

    That’s not how life works, and that investigator is an idiot. The problem with quoting people and running your life based on those quotes is that oftentimes you think the quote is brilliant simply because you are ignorant.

    1. avatar WI Patriot says:

      “Yes, I only put my seatbelt on when I know I am in danger of being in an accident. Likewise, I only have insurance on my house when I think it may burn down. ”

      You too…??? I thought I was the only one…/sar

  28. avatar Kap says:

    Gee I wonder what happened too, I do because I can, another troll zit piece of click bait! testing the parameters so a vociferous answer can be recorded and reported under a red flag law and give Chinese google owners more propaganda plus a possible base for subversion!

  29. avatar former water walker says:

    MS13 was after you and you carry a THREE EIGHTY?!? Somehow I think you’re FOS…and you tell folks you carry? Except for extremely close friends and family no one knows what I have. Grey man dumbazz😶

  30. avatar Shwiggie says:

    If you don’t feel qualified or are worried about people looking at you differently, then don’t carry…that’s fine. You are only answerable to yourself and yours for not having one at need. Likewise, I am only answerable to me and mine for not having one at need, but unlikewise I do feel qualified and don’t particularly give a hoot what anyone else thinks about it.

  31. avatar NH Guy says:

    Hey Hunter, you live your life and I’ll live mine. I’m perfectly ok with you making decisions on how you want to conduct yourself.

    But, your way isn’t my way so, just leave me the hell alone.

  32. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    I am going to call BS on Greg Hunter’s article.

    Within a few hours, I had a concealed handgun permit and my first handgun…

    One of the agents tasked with … protecting me helped me pick it out …

    How many jurisdictions in the United States are capable of issuing a concealed carry license “within a few hours”? Answer, VERY few.

    How often would a state or federal government order law enforcement to protect someone? Answer: almost never.

    How often would an agent tasked with protecting someone help them pick out a concealed carry handgun? Answer: almost never.

    What are the odds that all three of those claims are real? Answer: statistically ZERO.

    Now, let’s look at this gem:

    … though I tried to keep it concealed in a hip holster under a shirt or jacket, the people who inevitably did glimpse it frequently wondered why I had it and whether my gun or my presence put them in danger …

    I have only had TWO people realize that I was carrying a concealed handgun in 12 years. One was a police officer who noticed it under my small-ish t-shirt when I was working a construction project at his home. The other was an acquaintance who noticed it when I was working a construction project at his home. Neither person cared nor thought I put them in danger.

    And this gem:

    I also learned that carrying a gun — even with a license, training and a real need for it — doesn’t make me as worthy of that responsibility as real cops and soldiers are, and it didn’t make me an action movie hero.

    … carry[ing] a firearm … would have been super cool to 16-year-old me, but I didn’t have the training or responsibility of a real cop and I wasn’t any Jason Bourne.

    This is exactly what ardent gun-grabbers say who deride anyone that would dare be responsibly armed for self-defense — gun-grabbers who would never get a concealed carry license and go about armed in public.

    As I stated at the top of my comment, I am calling bull$hit on Greg Hunter.

    1. avatar Karl says:

      He’s part of the machine they care about their own.

    2. avatar PgII says:

      Good call. Nice post.

  33. avatar Joe Wilson says:

    The problem with people like Mr. Greg Hunter is that due to their own experiences or inexperience that they have the right to think they can decide for others.

    1. avatar WI Patriot says:

      Like any good liberal…

  34. avatar anarchyst says:

    “I also learned that carrying a gun — even with a license, training and a real need for it — doesn’t make me as worthy of that responsibility as real cops and soldiers are, and it didn’t make me an action movie hero.”

    That’s a sad statement for a concealed weapons carrier.

    You are actually MORE responsible, given the constraints that are placed on civilians who choose to protect themselves.

    Despite being under constraints that police and prosecutors do not have, YOU are actually a true “first responder”, unlike police who are only there to take reports, “pick up the pieces” and assess responsibility (but not for themselves).

    Given the atmosphere of many prosecutors and trigger-happy police who are almost never brought to task for their mistakes, concealed weapons carriers are held to a much HIGHER standard than police.

    An armed citizen should be able to defend his own life and the life of others, but without some kind of immunity, it is not only difficult, but puts the concealed weapons carrier in a precarious position, forced to defend his actions, unlike police and prosecutors, who have almost unlimited discretion.

    Even the present “stand your ground” concept is not enough, as prosecutors can and do go after those non-police who “feared for their lives”.

    What I would like to see is CPL holders have the SAME immunity that police and prosecutor have. THAT, in itself, would level the “playing field”, and would work. Look for prosecutors and police to oppose such a move…but one can hope…

    1. avatar Voldamort says:

      One can clearly see that in his words. For example he HEADLINES his piece (partially) with the title: “I paid attention when I carried my gun around”. Implying that he no longer carries his gun around (IF he ever did), AND that he no longer pays attention… to much of anything, would be my guess. That would explain the ignorance demonstrated by his scribblings.

  35. avatar Ryan says:

    The title of this article told me everything I needed to know before I even read it. Leftist, anti-gunner feeling compelled to carry a firearm because they faced an imminent threat but didn’t feel they or anyone else is “Responsible,” enough to do so. There’s more cops I wouldn’t trust with guns than citizens. This article is trash.

  36. avatar SteveM says:

    That’s odd. I carry a much larger Glock 27 and my wife is the only one that knows and no one that I’ve met has ever found out that I am carrying. Something tells me that this guy probably wasn’t being as careful with his concealment and mouth as he should have been.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      SteveM,

      The author was not carrying his handgun wrong. Rather, the author was not carrying a handgun at all because the entire article is fiction — propaganda with the desperate goal of discouraging concealed carry for responsible self-defense.

      I have heard from several OPEN carriers and people around them only notice on rare occasions. And I have heard from countless people who carry concealed and no one ever finds out.

      Thus, for the author of the article to state how several people “glimpsed” his handgun is not believable because it does not match with the experience of literally everyone else.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        I was detected once, wearing a Sneaky Pete, and the guy guessed my gun (LCP) just by looking at my SP. I was impressed, although I’d contend that just about any LE should be able to identify a SP as a holster, only reason it’s not Open Carry is that the gun is completely concealed, as in, you know that’s a holster, but you don’t know there’s a gun in it. I think it’s a perfect solution, but that may be due to the fact that Texas cops support citizen carry, so the ease of detection is not a source of harassment.

        1. avatar Huntmaster says:

          There’s nothing sneaky about a Sneaky Pete. My six year old grandson would spot you in a heartbeat.

  37. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    “… I did my best to be a careful, responsible, well-prepared gun owner, ready to protect others as well as myself.“

    As I’ve said before, my gun is for me and mine.

  38. avatar HEGEMON says:

    “Within a few hours, I had a concealed handgun permit and my first handgun”, BS, exactly where can you do this?

    “When the judge overseeing the case ordered that the U.S. Attorney, the FBI and the U.S. Marshals Service do everything appropriate to ensure my safety, the first thing I did (on their advice) was get myself a gun”, I doubt that ANY U.S. Attorney or FBI agent would recommend getting a firearm, now a U.S. Marshal would be a higher probability.

    Forgot to mention that Brenda Paz was a gang member in MS-13.
    https://beta.washingtonpost.com/local/heinous-and-violent-ms-13s-appeal-to-girls-grows-as-gang-becomes-americanized/2018/05/04/a4132e94-40bf-11e8-bba2-0976a82b05a2_story.html

    1. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and expire from cancer, Ruthie" PR says:

      Yeah, that’s who he considered a ‘friend’, a full- member of MS-13…

  39. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    I thought that most carriers knew much of that. The only people who should know you carry a firearm is your family and maybe your closet friend. Friend, not friends. And no one but family members should see it except if use is necessary.

  40. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    “But over time, I learned something that I wish more gun owners knew: Carrying a gun isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. I learned that most people I encountered actually didn’t feel better knowing that I had a gun. And, though I tried to keep it concealed in a hip holster under a shirt or jacket, the people who inevitably did glimpse it frequently wondered why I had it and whether my gun or my presence put them in danger.”

    Concealed means just that concealed,my bet is this fudd votes Leftard as well,no brains no pain.

  41. avatar st381183 says:

    The author is a F U D D. If you are concealing a firearm properly then no one should know it’s there but you. Trying to conceal a full sized handgun is pretty silly.

  42. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Still not understanding where “worthy” enters the picture, at all.

    The author remains a threat to anyone he comes in contact with, gun or no gun. Should have gone into Witsec, or moved across the country, changed names, and avoided anyone from before.

  43. avatar 2aguy says:

    Please…..cops and soldiers qualify with their weapons at best, once a year…… most cops never use their guns for self defense….and most soldiers never fire their weapons……so please….don’t lecture us about how wonderful cops and soldiers are with marksmanship…..

  44. avatar Howie says:

    I carry a S&W M&P “Shield”.
    The law says it has to be “concealed”. (covered?)
    The law says nothing about being undetectable.
    I’m always on the alert for the guy with the “bulge” on his hip.
    If you can detect a most evident bulge on my hip, well, tough nougies.
    I’ve never been asked, but if I’m ever questioned, “It’s an insulin pump.”

  45. avatar strych9 says:

    For some reason this guy’s “story” reminds me of going to see Range 15 at a theater up in FoCo.

    As the guy next to me noted to my wife and I, if someone went James Holmes they were gonna have a bad, and possibly record setting (for getting shot by the most people at once), day and most of the people they did manage to shoot were likely to live based on how many IFAKs were in our theater.

    Never felt safer in a movie theater than watching that movie. It was funny as hell too.

  46. avatar Specialist38 says:

    I don’t carry a gun to make other people feel more comfortable. Only myself.

    Another case of “I” have a need and you really don’t.

    Piss on him.

  47. avatar Will Drider says:

    “My friend and Client (Brenda Paz)”. Really? She was MS13 trash and even while in witness protection continued personal and direct contact with the Gang. This included her providing her location, drug, alcohol parties and Sex prostution.

    This goes hand in hand with your skewed view of civs carring firearms. Your CC FAILED if others notice it. You CC for your (and family) protection, not for OTHERS! If your feeling bad because your CC bothers or frightens others: your priorities are screwed up. Your “friends” need to be more concerned about MS13 trying to kill you while they are present.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7889812/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/ms–gang-members-guilty-murder/

  48. avatar Jared says:

    Sounds like the author is a FUDD who makes poor choices in “friends.”

  49. avatar Howie says:

    @2aguy

    My youngest is a CBP agent.
    All Fed LEOs are required to requalify every 3 months. I’m pretty certain other LEOs have to requalify at least every 6 months.
    In today’s litigation happy society, you best have LEOs training and qualifying every chance you get.

  50. avatar Sarge says:

    *** (summary) “I have carried a gun for personal protection due to direct threat, and so I am now the authority as to whether you should carry for personal protection without a direct threat.” ***

    I wonder how many people who have been involved in a violent home invasion, terrorist event, mass shooting, non-mass shooting, etc. wished they would have had something to fight back with. I wonder how many of those people would want to have to provide proof of a “verified threat” in order to get something to defend themselves with in the future.

    If you boil all of this (gun debate) down, you come to two very specific views. On one side, you have those who have a sense of self-responsibility and a realization that it is HIGHLY unlikely that any law enforcement will be around if/when they have a life-and-death encounter. On the other side, you have a group who wants to surrender all responsiblity to the State and beleive (i think) that so long as they can dial 911, someone will be there to help them before things get too bad for help. They also, because of their lack of self-responsibility, cannot fathom people maintaining self-control while carrying a gun. They feel like if someone can/does own guns, they are destined to be involved in some sort of crazy shootout, because he/she got mad. They have no self-control, so no one else does either.

  51. avatar BLK RFL DIV says:

    “…doesn’t make me as worthy of that responsibility as real cops and soldiers are” this is the most laughable shit I’ve ever read, so the point is after everything you had previously stated about becoming vigilant and responsible for your own safety (while exposing your CCW to stangers or friends) is that only LE and MIL should or are worthy enough carry or own firearms? hahah STFU Hunter, the retard gymnastics of this thought process is mindnumbing and only panders to the Karens that make up the ranks of Everytown’s BS.

  52. avatar Chris Morton says:

    Remember, “Rusty” Calley, Justin Volpe, Lon Horiuchi, Andreas Mehserle, Tony Abbate, Nidal Hassan and Jonathan Aledda are more qualified to carry a gun than you are…

  53. avatar Sal Chichon says:

    Whatever training this dunce received obviously wasn’t enough and/or effective.

    His mindset is also as solid as a cup of Jell-O on a hot day.

  54. avatar Jeremy J says:

    His logic is severely flawed. If you really need a gun you need it all the time, but if you don’t need it all the time you have to ask yourself do you need it at all? WTH kind of logic is this? I don’t need my seatbelt all the time, I don’t need a life jacket when on the boat all the time, I don’t need my smoke/carbon dioxide alarms all time, etc……. But when you need it, it may save your life. NBC is stooping to an all time low trying to convince people to stop legally carrying their guns because some jackass decided he didn’t need to carry anymore because all the gangsters he prosecuted were locked up. This is a new angle they are attacking from. Using people who carried guns or own guns to demonize the practice. This has got to be one of the stupidest articles I’ve ever read

  55. avatar B says:

    Worthy? Ha! What’s your life worth, Greg?
    Get the proper training and stay current. Conceal it correctly and always carry it. It’s a mindset. Lastly, I understand if you want to go smaller profile for CCW, but what’s up with the mousy .380? Minimum 9×19 with the same profile. Accompany it with a spare mag, light and a blade and you’re set. Then you can put it on TTAG’s dump. You can do it correctly if you wanted to.

  56. avatar Hannibal says:

    No one needs a gun all the time. Most conceal carriers may need it once, maybe twice, sometimes none- but you never know when that time will come up. Carrying 75% of the time is better than nothing in that regard.

    1. avatar B says:

      Better to have and not need than need and not have. The little Irish monkey, named Murphy is deadly reminder.

  57. avatar Chuck says:

    The author, voices an opinion, based on some very obvious (to several others and myself) fallacies in logic. In my experience, I’ve found LEO’s to vary in Gun Safety as much, if not more so than the general population of gun owners. From over-cautious (which is preferable to under-cautious), to the type that leave you scratching your head and wondering how they made it through training. I’m not a military veteran, so I refrain from commenting on our troops. Suffice it to say those I know personally, impress me with their gun handling most of the time.
    I believe that most of us who’ve been carrying for a while, are conscientious of the responsibility that goes with being a Gun Owner and Gun User. We follow the laws, even if we’re in disagreement with the laws. If a business or store, doesn’t want open or concealed carry within their environs, we either take our business elsewhere or follow their policies (I prefer the former rather than the latter, but it’s impossible to do the first 100% of the time for many of us). We practice and drill at varying rates, dependent upon our circumstances (Personally, that’s twice a month for live fire. Dry fire drills are weekly at the minimum). Suffice it to say, that alone sets us apart, and above what LE and the Military does as far as qualification IMO. Except for those stationed in a combat zone, regular military doesn’t revisit qualification on the firing line on a regular basis, and LE is even more infrequently than that (I don’t lump our RRT officers or Special Forces in that statement). So this idea that their occupation alone qualifies them above John Q. Public alone is a poor judgement on the author’s part.
    I can only speak for myself, but I do believe the majority of people carrying have a similar mindset. I don’t carry because I hope to shoot someone, I pray everytime I put my weapon in its holster, that I never have to use it. I also pray though, that if it becomes necessarry to use it, that I’m ready to take that step. In the 25+ years I’ve been carrying, I’ve not been in a situation requiring lethal force. I hope I’m not ever faced with that situation, but I will not be nor stand by and watch others be victimized by the predators living among us, and I believe most gun carriers feel the same way.
    That’s why I feel the author is wrong in his belief and opinion.

  58. avatar Cuteandfuzzybunnies. says:

    Ok first things first. If I had an MS13 death warrant hanging over my head, I wouldn’t carry a pocket 380 unless it was a backup to my much larger 9mm. I mean WTF dude? I don’t have any armed gang after me and I usually have at least a single stack 9.

    Secondly does the author realize that almost no gun owners / lawfully armed CCW holders think they are “ action hero’s “? I don’t know any cops or soldiers that think of themselves that way either.

    The author thinks that they had some “special need “ and that’s correct. But everyday people are raped , robbed , beaten and murdered. How many of those people thought “ I don’t need a gun today “?

  59. avatar Dr Duke says:

    You,me or any other American are just as “worthy” of the right to carry a gun as any police officer or soldier. What is next? Only police and armed forces are “worthy” of free speech?

  60. avatar Alan says:

    Concerning going armed for civilians, and the supposed expertise of Trained Law Enforcement Personnel, looking at any number of police shootings, one wonders as to the value and worth of all this training, which by the way, takes place at the public expense. Also, regarding police personnel involved in these “bad shootings”, might the officers involved have cut a couple of classes, or been absent from school when they should not have been?

    In short, the alleged competence of “trained professionals”, based on documented antics of some is questionable to say the least, and correct me if I’m in error, but legally armed civilians seem to be involved in fewer “bad shootings” than the police are. As for the military, when armed, they are usually visibly armed, and in uniform.

  61. avatar Mitch says:

    All I know is after 2 close calls in my lifetime carrying a pistol makes me feel a little more secure. Am I completely confident I will never have an encounter with a bad guy and live my life in complete peace. NOPE ! Carrying concealed makes me less uneasy, not more peaceful.

  62. avatar Slow Joe Crow says:

    What Hunter doesn’t mention is that the activist judge invented doctrine means the police have no responsibility and are frequently the least qualified and least worthy of trust.

  63. avatar No One Special says:

    I read this guy’s article that was published by NBC News. He stated that the more he found himself not needing to carry a gun the he left his gun at home. My biggest problem with that statement is it’s not a matter of need. Does he have a spare tire because he needs it every time he leaves the house? Or is it there in case he should ever need it? I have never needed a gun in civilian life, ever. Does that mean I will absolutely never need one (especially the day and age we currently live in)? I can’t say the with certainty and still sleep at night. There are things that we do like have a spare tire or insurance policies not because we need them but because we may need them. Carrying a gun for me is in case I may need it not because it’s guaranteed that I will. I am sitting on the couch typing this and have a holstered gun on me. Do I need it currently? Nope everything is quiet on the home front but I have it just in case.

  64. avatar Sven says:

    “…but I didn’t have the training or responsibility of a real cop and I wasn’t any Jason Bourne.”

    In my experience, most concealed carriers shoot and train way more often than the average cop and those in the military. A lot of cops shoot only one or twice a year to qualify, and most in the military almost never shoot a handgun. Additionally, I believe those that choose to carry concealed have a lot more responsibility than the average cop, because they have to be more careful, and don’t have a city, a department, or a union to back them up. Perhaps that is why concealed carriers often prove to have a much higher marksmanship percentage than the police in situations where they have to shoot.

  65. avatar Eric says:

    Is this some kind of belated April Fools joke?

  66. avatar Joseph Malone says:

    I did not understand the article. Too whiny,

  67. avatar Merle 0 says:

    This article is clearly a liberal anti gun troll. Why is TTAG parroting this bullshit now? Has TTAG finally turned liberal?

  68. avatar Red says:

    I can conceal my full-size S&W M&P 45 ACP and you couldn’t conceal a .380?

    Maybe you really aren’t cut out for carrying.

    That, or you need some serious instruction.

  69. avatar James Campbell says:

    Look no farther then the source, and verbage…..”Greg Hunter in Walmart banned open carry and I know why. I paid attention when I carried my gun around.”
    Anyone notice the spin here?
    “I paid attention when I carried” basically states that this retard THINKS he knows best, and if YOU disagree, well, YOU haven’t been paying attention while carrying a firearm. Typical regressive leftist opening statement. Disagree and you are lower than me. Same move as claiming gun control is “for the children” in opening a debate dialog, disagree and they claim you don’t care if children die. These things are easy to spot, and show when a writer or debater is presenting propaganda, or actually contributing in the discussion.
    Just as Sig pic vlad opens with garbage like “all you middle school educated” comments, he’s NOT open to debate, only posting the lefts propaganda.

  70. Just as there are some people who should never have been given a driver’s license, there also some people who should never be allowed to hold a gun in their hands; due to their own stupidity, lack of training about firearms, and complete disregard for anyone else in their close proximity.

    The author of this tripe is one such person. He does not possess the intelligence, ability, understanding of responsible gun ownership, or any of the other factors which would make him safe with a firearm.

  71. avatar Sean G./The Rookie says:

    I have to admit, I’m kind of scratching my head how he was unable to conceal carry a relatively small pistol like a P230. I’m guessing he was wearing an OWB holster. Even so, I would think it shouldn’t be that hard to conceal.

  72. avatar DCChristian says:

    There are many responsibilities in life that I have accepted without being “worthy”. In fact, feeling worthy or unworthy should not stop a person from responsibilities. Steps to protect ourselves and innocents around us are worthwhile endeavors. I take those responsibilities seriously, and try to give my best effort, whether I’m in an official capacity, or just on my own. As such, I’m sure I’ve practiced and trained more than some perceived “Jason Bourne” types. What matters is becoming the best YOU can be, not how you compare with someone else. Don’t take up responsibility like this lightly, but do take it up.
    “Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might…”—Ecclesiastes 9:10 (NIV)

  73. avatar Donttreadonme says:

    Keep in mind this is an opinion piece and obviously this guy has a pretty weak opinion of himself.

    You would be surprised at how many police oficers are not gun people and they only shoot twice a year at qualification. I know plenty of private citizens that are more highly trained in the use of firearms then people in law enforcement or the military.

    Personally, I think that all private citizens carrying a firearm for self defense should seek out training regularly and be as proficient as realistically possible.

  74. avatar Jack says:

    This is a Perfect example of Propaganda and one of the Stupidist things i have read this year.
    Matter of fact, this phonies story is just that.

  75. avatar Ad Astra says:

    So really if you think about it the ppl around him didn’t feel uncomfortable about the gun but more likely the chance for an encounter with illegal alien caused violent organized crime.

    1. Exactly. That’s why you see cops on tv emptying their magazines into someone who is running away from them. If it were an average citizen, we would have charges filed against us for doing that same thing, because the Judge would say that there was no ” threat “, due to the person retreating in the opposite direction , with their back to us.

  76. avatar borg says:

    The title as written makes it appear that the original author views police and military members as being far superior to average American’s including himself. The fact that he views himself in such a way might be a sign that he does not care for himself as much as he should.

  77. avatar Quigley says:

    Friends,
    As a civilian, I have had to unholster my concealed handgun three times.
    First, four men used their large car to force my small car off the road. I leaned across the hood of my car with my revolver pointed at them as they walked toward me. When they saw the revolver, they ran back to their car and quickly left.
    Second, at 10:00 at night as my grown daughter and I checked into a strip motel, two men who had hidden in the vending machine area ran at us. I brought the revolver to eye level. The two men stopped, backed away and ran.
    Third, while photographing in a rural area, two large farm dogs, rushed at me. I drew my revolver and pressed the Crimson Trace laser, flicking it across the eyes of each dog. The dogs immediately stopped. I backed away 50 feet to my car.
    My take away: both the men and the dogs were smart enough not to go up against an armed person. Because the bad guys immediately recognized the threat, at no time did I judge I was close to firing my revolver. I suspect the dogs did not understand what sort of danger a flick of a laser in the eye meant, but their attack resolved into barking.
    From my perspective, having a firearm close to hand means I can protect myself and not have to shoot unless necessary,
    Best,
    Quigley

  78. avatar Adam Wienieski says:

    Dear Dan Zimmerman,
    There is no moral difference between guns in the hands of private citizens and guns in the hands of the government. They are differentiated by nothing except a concept called “the state.”

  79. avatar Jimmy james says:

    ” (weapons) training of a real cop”…oh brother. Take a class once a year and shoot USPSA or IDPA on weekends and you will get more trigger time than 10 real cops.

  80. avatar clst1 says:

    ” I didn’t have the training or responsibility of a real cop and I wasn’t any Jason Bourne.”
    Most of us who carry realize we don’t have the responsibility of a real cop, nor do we have the authority of a real cop because we are not cops.
    I am “worthy” to carry a weapon for protection of myself and my family. If my carrying a holstered gun frightens you, you are the one with a problem.

  81. avatar Alexander45 says:

    “but I didn’t have the training or responsibility of a real cop ” trust me neither do they

  82. avatar Old gunny says:

    I have carried every day evertwhere for decades. Often under a loose t-shirt. No one has ever reacted to it. I beliene no 9ne has ever seen it. Why? Because I is part of me. I don’t pet it, adjust it, or otherwise call attention to it.

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