A member of TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia writes:
I am very disappointed with the rattling of sabers at TTAG over the unjust laws in CT. In my humble opinion having SWAT teams confiscate guns and the resulting firefight would be devastating to our cause. No matter what, if a gun owner fires on cops, whether they are storming his house or not, he will be played in the media as a paranoid and dangerous gun nut with an arsenal. This will pave the way to more laws, more confiscations, having gun owners being derided as nuts, or terrorists, and forcing public opinion against us. It will also divide and conquer other gun owners since some will decide a flash bang raid conducted by cops with machine guns is not worth the fuss. Therefore . . .
TTAG should stop fanning the flames.
Instead gun owners in CT and elsewhere need to take a page from Martin Luther King Jr’s playbook with nonviolent assertive civil disobedience.
During the civil rights movement King pushed civil disobedience to show the unjust, capricious, barbarity of Jim Crow laws. By sitting at all white lunch counters and refusing to move to the back of the bus they forced the police to act while simultaneously making their cause known and winning the war of public opinion.
Gun rights activists in slave states need to do the same. Here is how:
Using social media activists need to coordinate a civil disobedience action. I like to call it the ‘Spartacus’ strategy. All over CT or other slave states they need to pick a date, preferably a weekday when the most media coverage is gained.
Each activist needs to bring a 30 round mag, and there needs to be a group buy of those 10 rounders that look like a 30 rounder. All the mags are mixed together and everyone picks a random mag.
Then wearing a prisoner Halloween costume and carrying signs reading ‘my government made me a felon’ they march on the nearest government building. No need to gather everyone in Hartford. Make logistics easy and have them march on the nearest courthouse or government building carrying American flags, Gadsden flags, and the Battle of Gonzalez come and take it flag.
When they reach the courthouse the leader reads a short speech about unjust laws, and civil disobedience, and stresses how everyone there is a law abiding American who works hard and pays taxes. Then they read the 2nd amendment.
At the end everyone holds up their mag, and stands there quietly, outside of the government building. The local government now has to decide whether to act with force against peaceful protesters or ignore them. If they act with violence our cause is bolstered in the war of public opinion. If they ignore it they communicate that the law is unjust and unenforceable.
As an added bonus when the police advance everyone drops their mags. Now there is plausible deniability as to who had the felon making mags and the oh so safe mags. This further erodes the CT laws and show them to be arbitrary and absurd.
Of course for this to work people must be willing to risk arrest. However, this is a much better strategy then waiting for the cops to come knocking at night.
Please don’t confuse my call for peaceful civil disobedience in order to get out ahead of the gun grabbers agenda with compliance to it. I am also not belittling those in CT who are saying they will not comply. I simply think a mass strategy has a better chance of political and media success than individuals.
I believe there will come a day when armed revolt is necessary if we keep going down this path. I do not believe that day is here yet, therefore we should try to avoid it while winning. However I pray I will be able to stand up and fight when the day comes.
In response to the growing crisis in Connecticut, the Internet is already abuzz with Molon Labe declarations and disinformation (i.e. the “satirical” story that Connecticut politicians decided not to confiscate guns after they discovered that a significant number of police failed to abide by the “assault rifle” and “high-capacity magazine” registration laws).
TTAG is in the thick of things. The question is, how should we play this one? We’re gathering and posting pics of gun owners supporting their freedom-loving brothers and sisters in Connecticut. We’re selling Stand Strong CT T-shirts. And we’re publishing posts predicting disaster. Have we gone over-the-top? [The Sipsey Street Irregulars figure I’m soft on CT defense of 2a.] Do we need to dial it back or is it steady as she goes?
I think this was actually well written and appropriate.
Normally the NRA-ILA releases are so melodramatic I want to puke.
Report the facts. That is all. Leave the emotion and hysteric’s to others. The facts are scary enough IMHO. No need to build up the heat. Remember that 26 percent of Americans have some form of mental illness.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america/index.shtml
This sounds about right to me. I don’t MIND the doom and gloom, nor do I call it sabre rattling, but it is there.
That guy does have a sweet idea, though. Though it’s possible it’s merely speeding the inevitable, in which case how is throwing your sabre at the legislators any better “saber rattling”?
Facts are good, yes. But I wouldn’t put prior restraint on editorializing, as long as the reader knows which is which.
I agree with this member that we need to try to find a peaceful way out of this predicament. However I think we also need to be prepared for the alternative. If it turns violent, then we have no choice but to win, for if we lose, the gun grabbers will use it as a justification for civilian disarmament.
MLK? LOL. The 2A is carved in stone. America is in a death spiral. How s that unarmed civil disobedience working out in Ukraine,Egypt,Syria,etc? We are a nation of laws& rights. Robert Farago is spot on with his analysis & reporting.
Allow me to paraphrase the OP’s argument:
“Because the purpose of the Second Amendment is to enable people to resist tyranny by being armed, then we must not actually, you know, resist tyranny when we’re armed. Because that would be icky.
“What we really need to do is sit around contemplating our navels while singing Kumbaya. That’ll teach those Connecticut b@stards not to mess with Constitutional rights.”
If the Weaver family had rolled over when the Feebs and their Gestapo buddies came a-callin’, they would probably all be alive. In prison, sure, but alive. Except the dog, who would have died of natural causes by now. And gun rights in America, which would have died of neglect.
The whole argument that 2A is for protection against government overreach would have fallen apart without a dramatic example of government overreach. Ruby Ridge was the light bulb above America’s head. But maybe the OP is still sitting in the dark.
I hope to be just like you when I grow up. That was beautiful.
Edit: Except for the cats…
Well stated, as always, Ralph.
The fight against tyranny isn’t going away. We’ll only see an increase in government’s ability to put down any unrest. I firmly believe that if we would have resisted tyranny in the 1990s then we would have had better odds of restoring government to constitutional limits than we have today. Next year? The year after that? I’m confident that the odds of success will be even lower. Too many factors favor tyranny over time. I agree with those who caution about not ‘starting’ anything. However, dragging things out will only jeopardize successful restoration. The more powerful government becomes, the more costly it becomes for the People to reign it in.
Keep going as you are, TTAG! Speak up now while you still can. You have my respect and admiration for it.
I appreciate the article for giving us what might be seen as a behind the scenes look at Kel-Tec’s “issues”. However, I have to say, it just sounds like more excuses from a company that makes very sub par products. Defective firearms that are brand new in box, shoddy workmanship and horrible quality control are just SOME of the many problems that are evident with the vast majority of their models. I’m not just jumping on the “bash Kel-Tec” bandwagon either. I speak from personal experience while also having dealt with many unhappy customers (yes I work in the industry).
Honestly, the running joke in the industry seems to be “Friends don’t let friends buy Kel-Tec” and it’s for very good reason IMHO. If you want a quality product, stick with the big six – S&W, Glock, Springfield, Beretta, HK, Sig Sauer. Just my $.02
Frankly, other than the part about ISO 9001:2008 certification (which was mentioned primarily due to how it affected production volume during the process), the article was not meant to address quality one way or the other. I only asked them about keeping up with demand and what, if anything, Kel-Tec is doing along those lines. Although plenty of people have QC concerns, most of the negative comments I have seen on TTAG and in person at the range and at my LGS had to do with product scarcity and price gouging by those who have it to sell, and I thought this line of questioning would result in more meaningful answers than trying to have the company somehow prove that it was increasing quality control. I think only time will show on that.
18 is the new 8.
Kinda like “Dog Years”, eh?
http://www.examiner.com/article/vet-conn-cop-said-i-cannot-wait-to-get-the-order-to-kick-your-door-in
Who’s fanning the flames? Really?
Why is it “we” have to play nice? , the antis don’t, won’t, and have to know they are “public servants” to protect and serve remember? I know, let’s put up another moderate, can’t we all just get along candidate for POTUS also. The past two worked out great. Stand Strong CT!!!!
I personally don’t have a problem with TTAG on this issue, what exactly the purpose of the Second Amendment anyway? I’ll give y’all a hint, it’s not hunting or sport.
Yep. We endlessly argue that the entire point is to overthrow a tyrannical government. So what does that entail? Sit-ins? Strongly worded letters to our “representatives”? No, our founding fathers believed that periodic violence would be necessary to preserve the power of the people against the always-increasing power of government. And up to this point in recent history, there’s been plenty of violence- all committed by the government against we the people- through forced seizure of assets (taxes), forcible imprisonment for a medicinal plant, invading the privacy of personal correspondence, and outright murder of vocal opposition. I’d have to imagine that there is a breaking point in the national psyche somewhere. And once that point is reached, our “civilized” society may cease to be civil.
….” What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.”… Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787[2] — http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/tree-liberty-quotation
I take your point but some- and from the stories I read here occasionally, more than a few- seem to get almost giddy at the idea of a violent conflict. I wonder how many of these people have seen a country that has such problems in their lifetime, and how long it takes for it to recover.
For me, any sort of violence like that is the 2nd worst possible outcome.
I’ve thought the rhetoric about the Ct situation has been strong, maybe too strong. Reading some of the posts I’ve wondered if ttag has been encouraging the bloodshed. Certainly you are fanning the flames.
On the other hand if I was not in compliance with the law your posts about ct made me rethink how I would go about being non compliant.
I think we all fear the same thing. I say report the facts, report some opinions, and reduce the flame fanning. Youve predicted the violence and I see no reason to stop predicting that….but I really fear antagonizing one of our own into a very bad situation that won’t end well for the Ct gun owners.
“Disrupting the Gun Lobby with Digital Organizing”
So, the game is shutting them up – “disrupting” – rather than persuading, and it’s not citizens with a point of view, but some nefarious influence group – “the Gun Lobby.”
Debating policy – good. Going at the premise – better. Going at a premise that makes them look bad to their own peeps – best of all. This is the word delivered to us by dear Uncle Saul:
“‘Disrupting’ seems kind of anti-democratic, what’s up with that? Don’t people get to speak?”
“Do you mean gun owners who lobby, or some other, nefarious influence group? The people who flooded Albany after the SAFE act weren’t organized by NRA or anybody else, but themselves.”
“So, by ‘social media’ you mean things like meetup, twitter, facebook and so on? Well, that’s exactly how those Albany protesters organized, and in Texas, and Tennessee, and … the list is pretty near endless. Indeed they’ve been remarkably effective at organizing counter-protests that tend to outnumber the initial ant-gun protest.
Borrowing the tactics of your more successful opponents is always a good idea, so good on you for that. But, who’s the troglodyte rubes here if those gun nuts are out e-organizing us? If we’re dissing them for not wearing skinny jeans and hipster beards, that seems kind of shallow. They seem to argue facts, and use technology to make their point. We seem to kinda suck in contrast.”
NEVER let the unspoken premise slide. Make them own it. ALWAYS draw out the contradictions in their unspoken assumptions. (And yes, I actually do this.)
Glad to hear something decisive out of the NRA past their support of our lawsuit.
TTAG should do what TTAG wants to do. If that be more so-called “sabre rattling”, then so be it.
But this alternate approach was very well-written, and could be damned effective if executed to a “T”, which shouldn’t be that hard except to gather sufficient numbers of people willing to spend a few hours (or a night) in lock-up.
Absolutely brilliant.
The prison garb is probably getting just a bit too theatrical for me. But the rest? Yes. Good idea. Probably better to do it at the capitol, or governors mansion, in order to get a bigger crown.
Especially the idea about the 10 vs 30 round (but look the same) magazines. Heck, maybe throw a pezz dispenser or two in the picture 🙂
So, just swim around a bit more animatedly and kvetch loudly while the water temperature increases? This nation was born of better stuff. May we find the courage that produced “And for the support of this Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.” And, if you would like a brief review of what it could cost, go here: http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Our_Culture/our_lives_fortunes_honor.htm
I’m of two minds. On the one hand, reader is absolutely right that any exchange of fire between gun owners and police will be portrayed as the second coming of Tim McVeigh, facts be damned. Blogs can put the truth out there, but can’t overcome the reach of the MSM, or the fact that a substantial number of voters still get all their news the old-fashioned way.
On the other hand, I have a visceral reaction to this situation, and especially to the bellicose statements coming from the Malloy administration (which I still say seem to all be coming from this Micheal P Lawlor person, described as an ‘aide’ to the governor). I don’t think they should be allowed to get away with threatening the citizenry like that, and in view of that I’m finding the molon labe talk more bracing than worrying. At some point you have to say, this far and no farther.
To fine tune my understanding of loco parentis, I went to the mecca of libtard definitions: Wikipedia! It specifically refers to colleges and says to act as a parent in the best interest of the student WITHOUT VIOLATING THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS! Weeeelll. Civil rights include those in the 2A.
Cool! So he obviously has no objection to my carrying the means of my own self-protection. Awesome!
Got Lobbyist???
Cliff,
I was also wondering on your position of the Ninth Amendment in conjunction with the Second. I ran into a scholarly paper and I’m still trying to mentally digest it.
I agree with this persons method. We keep violence as the LAST RESORT. Any peaceful method is preferable to that. A peaceful Civil disobediance march is a good method.
The guy is marketing to the pansy parent generation. During campus visits with my son, I about puked due to the amount of time spent on that subject: feeling safe.
I don’t see this as an either / or situation.
A huge fear of lawmakers is what happens if people blatantly ignore laws passed and don’t treat them as gospel – for that reason, we should encourage the enforcement of laws of folly so that they can be challenged in court, I don’t think anyone needs to be killed over that and I don’t see the first step being a flash-bang raid.
The suggestion of a non-violent protest is great – it’s just another way to push the folly of this law by showing how impotent those who made it are.
No one needs to be killed but someone needs to be charged to have standing to best challenge the law; while this sucks for that person, I do not feel they would stand alone and would the support of numerous organizations and private persons to mount a strong defense. I’m not in CT but I would personally put a few hundred $ towards supporting such an effort because I think it’s important.
I think we really are winning but we need to keep up the pressure and not slack off or get despondent even in the face of draconian, unconstitutional laws such as this
Law. That’s great. You mean the law that applies to us little people but not the people who make the laws? David Gregory ring any bells?
After reading the comments and as the author of the email in the article I want to make it clear I never advocated retreat. I did not say defend the 2nd amendment but…
What I proposed was an alternative nonviolent strategy that puts the tyrants in CT on notice.
The people of the gun don’t own the media. Violent actions, or even standing up to jack booted thugs breaking down your door, will be spun negatively and we will lose. Right now gun owners are the underdogs and that is a VERY strong position in the US. People here love an underdog.
That being said we don’t need to bite, yet. I firmly believe CT is either afraid to act or waiting for the elections. The mass protest will elevate our cause and bring more media attention. Not as much as anti rallies, but then we don’t own the media.
We need to control the message, keep hammering away, and keep our powder dry.
And if the State Gestapo raids a home with their guns and grenades, then what would you have the people inside do — start a parade?
Well as a CT resident I’m happy for all the coverage we are.
The writer has a point, mass civil disobedience is a good tactic and would be very effective but… what would stop the police form doing nothing at the time of the protest, taking say a nice video of the crowds and looking through pictures from media outlets and social media then gathering and arresting protestors up later at their convenience while they are alone? It sounds crazy but it already happens to a lesser extent with riots, big parties that get out of control, etc.
I wouldn’t call what TTAG is reporting saber rattling, but I do agree and believe that both sides, the possibility of violence (unintended or otherwise) and the peaceful protest route needs to be talked about. Not talking about the possible violence doesn’t serve anyone; it’s wishful thinking to believe ignoring it will help keep gun owners in a positive light if something goes down. Plain and simple, we are screwed PR wise if a gun owner shoots up a SWAT team except under the very narrowest of circumstances.
I should add, while I think the last hypothetical fan-fiction-esque post was over the top and I was not personally a fan of the dramatics, it does illustrate the possibilities of what could happen.
We should default to Mill here, all conversation on the matter is valuable and the chaff and crap will be apparent and filtered out thusly.
The article doesn’t mention a 10-round, 10″ barrel variant, but 13.8″ barrel, 10-round variant. That’ll be 5 rounds per magazine tube with a switch you can quickly flip to feed from the other tube, for those of you unfamiliar with the KSG. I want one of these KSG SBS’s to put that new quick-detach Red Jacket KSG suppressor on! I’ve always considered shotguns too loud for indoor defensive use. Just my opinion for my own use. Short barreled bullpup shotgun with suppressor? Now we’re talking home defense! I just hope it’s one of the reliable KSGs. Buying a Kel-Tec weapon is a gamble!
Well, I knew this was going to happen. There response as usual is hilarious!
Honestly, I’ve never seen the appeal of these. Since I live in CA I probably wouldn’t be able to own it anyway.
Now shannon will claim alan brooks had a windbreaker on . . . .
I have heard very negative things about the quality and reliability of these… Have I been mislead? On paper it looks like a kick-butt HD shotgun. But not if it’s not 100% reliable.
“Instead gun owners in CT and elsewhere need to take a page from Martin Luther King Jr’s playbook with nonviolent assertive civil disobedience.”
Just in case you haven’t been paying attention…the days of “non-violence” are LONG gone…LE has taken it upon themselves to shoot first, get the details later, and I for one, will NOT become their next conquest…
Wow CSGV went on a three year old style rant this morning hahahaa.
Now that is full of win!!!!
A college’s enrollment consists of full grown men and women who can make their own decisions and who, should they be inclined to consult them, already have parents of their own. They don’t need, and the college doesn’t have the authority to inflict, anyone’s homemade paternalistic hovering and nannying.
Never mind making anyone “feel” safer through superficial measures and unconstitutional infringements. Focus instead on actually making them safer by removing yourself as an obstruction to the exercise of their God-given right to defend themselves.
Be the change you want go see in the world. Failing that, at least quit being the thief robbing people of the rights and freedom you claim to support.
Watch, the best part – Alan _WASN’T_ carrying! He just _said_ he was.
#FellForIt
Tried to post this before so if it’s a repeat …
The first time law enforcement shows up in force, wearing body armor, carrying automatic weapons, driving armored vehicles with SWAT pasted on the side to confiscate weapons and make arrests under this law, the genie is out of the bottle and nothing anybody does will put that genie back in the bottle. Armed civil disobedience/revolution will be a stones throw away then.
Please, please, please CT legistlatures, look before you leap.
Headline should read: Win Kel Tec Paperweight! (And Walther P22)
If I was an anti-gun leader and this happened to me, I would just laugh it up as a harmless joke that it is, brush it off, and forget about it. I would not however, tweet about it and make myself look like an butt hurt, opportunistic, immature half-adult.
^^^This.
There are 100 ways she could have handled this with some professionalism and dignity.
Instead she went “school children.” Hope Bloomberg feels he’s getting his money’s worth. Looking incompetent, immature and constantly defensive may have been part of the overall strategy from the beginning for all I know.
Let them take the guns, let them take your women, let them take your children, let them take your freedom, let them take your life.
She sounds an awful lot like our current president. She got caught in an embarrassing situation for her. Instead of letting it go, or telling the truth of what happened, she makes up a lie and tries to attack her opposition. Pathetic, really.
“Instead gun owners in CT and elsewhere need to take a page from Martin Luther King Jr’s playbook with nonviolent assertive civil disobedience.”
Remind me… how’d that work out for Mr. King, again?
What the text of the post does is a common form of debate where the person presents two choices and then demands a path be chosen between either one or the other when no such dichotomy needs to occur. This is referred to as a ‘false choice’.
People in Connecticut, or wherever the grabbers strike next, don’t have to choose one option or the other. They in fact don’t have to do anything at all. They can ignore the current law and attempt to get it changed… but at this point it should be pretty obvious that’s not going to happen.
The author is correct that most incidents of violence are going to be spun negatively with regards to gun rights groups… but anything that happens is going to be spun in such a manner be it an assault, a strongly worded letter, or standing up and giving an elected official the bird. How something will be portrayed by a media that hates you shouldn’t define the parameters of the engagement.
Either Connecticut will enforce their laws, or they won’t. If they don’t then they look like fools, if they do eventually someone’s going to get shot. It’s that simple, and it’s not a false choice kind of simplicity because that many doors getting kicked in is going to end up with somebody screwing up.
It ended badly for Dr. King as an individual. However, the movement and message was bigger than the individual and that is why Dr. King won in the end. It sucks being the martyr, but at least he was effective and History remembers that.
It will suck being the individual when the police come no-knocking. But unless the individuals band together there may never be an effective movement or message and that individual will have sacrificed in vain.
My strategy is preemptive in nature.
I DO CARRY. I feel, as a supporter of the pro gun agenda it is not only my right but my duty to carry everywhere I can as often as I can. In fact since I became licensed to carry I reduced my casual alcohol consumption so that I could carry in public and still be in compliance with my states laws. I’m not an alcoholic, but in my state there is zero level of intoxication allowed while carrying, so having a beer in the afternoon and then running up to the store means shopping unarmed if you would like to stay within the limits of the law.
My message to the Author “you need to start carrying”. I don’t believe that it is the duty of every person to carry a gun the way I do, however I do believe that if you are one of the people the recognizes the benefit the RTKBA provides to society and you support that you should take up arms with your brothers and fully support the movement rather than just reaping the benefits provided by the sacrifice of others.
The decision to carry isn’t an easy one, it costs money there are many factors to consider from gun size/caliber, holster selection, carry method, and the worst part is the actual burden of having a heavy piece of metal and plastic tethered to your body all day long. The gun isn’t just a personal accessory you toss in your pocket like a wallet I promise you, it’s something you are made aware of every time you stand, sit, squat, or lean over.
The mobile site needs some scaling.
I was a little confused .. Do I or do I not need to enter via Facebook? It didn’t seem so at first, but after I hit enter I got a message that a fb login was required…?
It worked better when I rotated the screen sideways. To answer your question no but if people sign up using your link you get up to 5 additional entries for each person.
Kotaku is first and foremost “a news and opinion site about games and things serious gamers care about. We’re here to inform you and, sometimes, entertain you. We aim to be an inclusive site for gamers of any ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation.” from their man Stephen Totillo. Many critics, recently, have been lamenting a certain depth to video games. These same critics want to see the video game industry evolve into a recognized art form, like film has evolved before it. They believe that in order to reach this transcendence, video games will need to push beyond certain tropes that have been chaining them being just disposable forms of entertainment.
I think this author is off his mark. He says guns, when he should be saying violence. If you replace the word gun with the word violence, then you begin to understand what he is really talking about, and I agree. It is too often in video games that the games almost always revolve around violent confrontation between the hero and the villains. I would love to see games that allowed players to utilize non violent resolutions, or even games that explored the full consequences of using violence – even in self-defense. This author is clearly missing the forest for the tree, as so many other people do when it comes to guns and violence: he is focusing on the tool and not the problem behind the tool. If games are to evolve, then their critics need to evolve, and that means addressing the underlying issues.
BTW, and for clarification, I don’t believe for an instant that video games make someone violent – just like movies and books don’t make someone violent. I simply think it would interesting to see games that encouraged non-violence, or more precisely non-aggression.
Yes by all means lets be politically correct here so we don’t offend anyone’s delicate sensibilities.
The founders are weeping in their graves and lady liberty lies with her robes torn and panties around her ankles from the gang rape of leftist politicians. Wake up people. The Sons of Liberty would already have been shooting.
The Real Truth about Guns is the 2A is absolute, any infringement should be met with violence and force of action. Not only should TTAG be fanning the flames, but tossing gas and tires on the damn thing.
*Mike Drop*
*clap*… *clap* *clap*… *full-on applause*
T-shirts!!!!!!! WHEN?!!!
I don’t get why people are upset over that bit of fiction you re-posted here, Farago.
They seem to think such things couldn’t happen. Unfortunately **** like that happens more than it should in the US, with a lot of similar cases coming out of California. I don’t know if the Connecticut state cops are as unaccountable and untouchable as the LA County or LAPD boys but I’d be willing to bet they could be.
I say stay the course.
Nonviolent solutions should be explored, but if cops start kicking in doors going after people for life-ruining felonies then violence is going to occur.
On your last point you are absolutely right. However, for those that don’t live around here, it is hard to appreciate the sort of self created echo chamber these politicians live in and how little it takes to crack it. They simply exist in a world where no one questions their orthodoxy. Have always found that when confronted in public with a hard question or two their argument falls apart. That is why the SAFE Act was passed in the dead of night–the CT law with debate cut off. In the election last fall, the Democrate running against the incumbent Republican (!) county executive ran ad after ad on gun control, accusing Astorino of allowing assault weapons to sold to criminals at the gun show held at the County Center. This in a county 2:1 D to R. Then watched Astorino call out his opponent in a debate with the facts (background checks, ATF/State Police on site etc) and the guy just fell apart. And lost by a landslide, despite having Clinton, Schumer and Cuomo campaign for him. Now he is running for governor and his first add showed a visual of the 2k jobs going to Alabama with Remington. Even here there is a big “middle” that can be won. Remember that the founding fathers understood PR very well- there was a reason many were publishers, writers, organized the postal system of the day–controlling the message was power.
I’m sure all the Ukrainians will have to do is stage a “peaceful” rally when the tanks roll in. Putin respects that.
Sarc off
Tell ya what, it only takes a few short moments of visiting that website of hers to get a truly creeped out feeling. The responses to this picture on her website are also scary, she does have a dozen or two hitlerish followers for sure.
The GAP militia standing strong.
Sabre Rattling, I don’t think that’s the intent.
I think TTAG is may be skipping what will be a whole lot of protest, petitioning, and litigation in between now and the possible violent future they have depicted in various posts. I don’t think by skipping all of that they are suggesting that it won’t happen.
I think they are trying, as a thought experiment, to take these policies to the most terminal of their effect on society, to illustrate the ridiculousness of enacting such polices. For example, noncompliance with an arbitrary restriction shouldn’t merit the treatment given to terrorists who have their thumbs on a button, yet that is the only way to “enforce” these new policies against non-compilers. The more they enforce in any way against “regular otherwise law abiding citizens” the worse they’ll look and that will breed defiance faster than any speech.
Lawmakers ought to take a step back when passing legislation and ask themselves:
“Will we have to commit something that looks like a humanitarian atrocity to enforce this law against people who have done no harm beyond noncompliance with said law?”
If the answer is “yes” then the policy is stupid, socially and politically, and should not be enacted.
-D
I wonder how well they pay the person responsible for deleting opposing comments on their Facebook page. I’ve seen it go on into the wee, wee hours. They are committed to censorship, you gotta give them that.
I am more likely to see a honest politician than a real KSG. Ghost guns. All of ’em 😉
A lefty and a righty.
I agree that more photos of this variety are needed and less of the posturing types. Looking threatening with a scarey black thing is only adding fuel to the fire. Showing that many types of people, not just zealots (including myself) in support of CT would help bring our common/popular cause to light.
I had and fire a few Kel Tec weapons and I have found them smooth firing with no jams.
ISO 9000/9001 has nothing to do with quality.
The only thing that having 9000/9001-compliant practices do for you is insure repeatability. You could be producing utter crap, but if you have ISO 9000 compliant processes, you’ll produce crap all the time.
As I liked to say when going through an ISO 9000 compliance audit: “If we wanted to have a cat crap in our product boxes before we shipped, as long as we had documented processes for the breed, age, sex and what we fed the cats to produce the crap, then we’d be ISO 9000 compliant. Our customers would still wonder why they’re opening up a box with crap in them, however.”
Associate by caliber only. Today I find that GSAxcess.gov has 2x Reisling Model 50 listed as surplus at LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL SECURITY Los Alamos, NM. There is some history. Should go in a museum.
and 7x M14
Highlighting plausible dramatic, injurious outcomes for all to read could serve more as a primer on warning signs to beware, than as an igniter of already smouldering emotions. In that way, TTAG’s efforts could help forestall those outcomes by reminding with each step how perilous is this path we’re all on.
Often heard after a DGU use is the pleading exclamation “I didn’t have any other choice!” Well. There are always choices and some of them lead you to a time and place where only one choice, or none, remains; but that doesn’t erase the fact that prior choices did exist at various earlier points.
TTAG’s drawing attention to the potentiality of this looming national DGU could help prompt early identification, evaluation and selection by all involved of better choices, before there is but one unavoidable, irreversible choice left.
“A large part of the court’s rationale was that “a prohibition on possession of magazines having a capacity to accept more than ten rounds applies only the most minor burden on the Second Amendment,” and I think that’s both correct and legally relevant.”
And that’s where he first went astray. I’ve seen no evidence that the government may limit a Right without an overwhelming burden of proof of a safety issue. And there isn’t, by his own admission, one in evidence.
Done.
Keep the 2nd Amendment strong… For the children!
Some of my fondest memories are of going to the range with my grandfather when I was around those girls’ age. He taught me to shoot on an old bolt action 22. The size or type of gun I learned on didn’t matter. What mattered were the lessons he taught me & the time I got to spend with him.
Practical need?
Where doed the Second Amendment qualify RKBA with that question?
First of all, with any question of religion, forget about what anybody says, what your grandparents did, what the prevailing winds are. Go directly to the source, the Word of God. In Deuteronomy you will find the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments. The Fourth Commandment enjoins us to keep the Seventh Day holy, as it is a Sabbath to God. In Revelation there are frequent requests to keep the Commandments of God and have the Testimony of Jesus.
In every calendar I have seen, including the ancient Hebrew ones, the Seventh Day is a Saturday. There is no authority anywhere in the Bible to keep the Sabbath on a Sunday, which was the Pagan Day of the Sun. Constantine enforced Sunday worship to keep all the Pagans he “changed” to Christians happy in their weekly routine, and this was continued by the Catholic Church.
This makes me wonder whether anyone in the mainstream churches has ever read the Bible. Even Martin Luther did not see this point.
Therefore it is perfectly acceptable to go hunting on a Sunday, and should not offend anyone of a religious persuasion.
How about you not wear jackets with dangly crap on them if you’re carrying a gun? Isn’t clothing or belt crap that gets in the way of holstering or drawing a bad idea?
…b-but Glock Perfection….
I can understand that the confusion of expansion and certification can slow things down and I commend them for not adding to the nation’s debt problems BUT….
If you are having these kinds of issues, don’t keep putting new ideas out there that people will clamor over and chase down only to be told time after time about delay after delay. Don’t introduce something and show it off year after year at SHOT Show when it will not be available for years to come. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the consumer.
Also, when there is proposed legislation that would affect one of your designs and your response is to jack the price up because of the increased demand? That is just plain insulting to the consumer. And then to put out a press statement saying that the legislation is the ONLY reason for the increase??? Magpul was faced with legislation as well and what did they do? They saturated the market with their product. They even gave DISCOUNTS to those that lived in the area of most effect. Poor form KelTec, poor form.
I will be honest, the entirety of what I think of KT from this point forward hinges on the RMR-30. I am fed up with delays and announcements that fail to produce results. I am tired of it being put on the shelf for one reason or another. I am tired of the excuses. To be told that they were shelving the program because they didn’t know if it would be part of a legislative ban and then only to shelve it again in favor of the KSG which was subject to the same threat of being banned??? Sorry, doesn’t hold water.
I will be waiting for 3rd quarter this year. If KelTec stays true to their word (this time) then I will send them some of my hard earned money and see what they have put forth; and my ‘Word of Mouth’ advertising will reflect upon that. If they delay it again, then I am done with them, will sell my PMR-30 for whatever I can get for it and my WoM Advertising will reflect that too. They have to realize their stock isn’t the greatest right now and they need to hit this out of the park. Produce what you say you are going to produce and stop introducing new designs until you have satisfied that which you have already promised.
We are waiting. We are watching.
OK, as a guy who disassembles and re-assembles guns for a living, how the dickens can someone shoot themselves while re-assembling a gun “they didn’t know was loaded?”
While the gun is disassembled, there’s not much chance that you don’t see a live round in the works. Especially in a Glock, where everything is nice and uniformly black or silver. The brass and copper of a jacketed round… they’re going to kinda stick out like a doofus wearing plaid at funeral. I mean, seriously… where the *(&(*&^ is the round going to hide in the pile of parts?
How many standard deviations below the mean does someone’s IQ have to be to not notice a live round in the midst of re-assembling a gun? Three, four?
This is yet another case of “Sack them all. They’re simply too stupid to be worthy of taxpayer monies.”
Time to ban windbreakers and drawstrings…for the children!
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Once I got my CPL and started to carry, I got rid of my Glock and replaced it with a Ruger LC-9 for similar concerns.
Personally, I’ve never trusted the safety being inside the trigger.
Ya I know, I know… many of you don’t like having a safety at all. Buf for those occasions I want one, I have one; and for those times I don’t want one, I can turn it off and rely on the LC-9’s 50lb-10″ (lol) trigger pull to make sure I actually want to fire.
Finally got the money shot! See my Twitter post.
https://twitter.com/minasmith64/status/443127720109551616/photo/1
I love it.
I have a 1 5/8″ NAA mini in 22mag with a holster grip and it goes everywhere with me. CCI maximag tmj’s are my round of choice for them as penetration is the key with small bullets. I don’t know about one shot stops, but I sure wouldn’t want to get shot with one.
This is why I plan on NOT taking my gun out EVER unless it’s to immediately clear it or shoot bad guys.
Comparing a loaded gun in a gun store? Not where you want an ND.
Get the titanium grips, they are the shizz, look killer too, sig storw has em for 950.00 I put em on all my gats. Peace
“Using social media activists need to coordinate a civil disobedience
action. I like to call it the ‘Spartacus’ strategy.”
Not sure using calling your plan Spartacus is the best course.
Spartacus gathered an army of people who had been subjugated
by the Romans. For the next 18 YEARS he killed government
officials, routed the Roman armies, and looted and pillaged
(particularly from loyalist communities) to feed his men.
Spartacus wouldn’t really be one to seek peaceful resistance, he’d
be wondering why we haven’t beheaded or crucified anyone yet.
There aren’t any juries in South Africa. Only judges, something about no fair trials during apartheid made them get rid of them.
Had to listen to the idiot Gretchen Carlson on Fox and some foriegn reporter breathlessly describe the super duper nuclear dangerous ammunition he used. “I think they call it hollow point ammunition “.
Wow……awesome.
no workee from the PC side… just a rotating thingee on the page after entering name and email.
oh, well. Like the 870 just fine anyway.
18 inches of penetration. Line em up right and you can get 2 tweakers with one bullet. That’s economy.
It’s a gorgeous wall hanger and beautifully made for sure, but I have severe doubts about the real-world useability of a double-barrel bolt action. Sounds like it offers all the penalties and none of the pluses of either design, costs a metric shittonne, and has no capacity or weight advantage over a standard mag-fed CRT rifle. Also if I were hunting dangerous game with that thing I’d have big reservations about a round failing to extract, a $500K rifle is as good as gilded firewood if it malfunctions and gets you killed.
My taste in guns admittedly run much more proletariat than that status symbol, because tools are meant to be used and not collect dust on a rich man’s wall. If I ever win the lottery I’d love a custom European job, probably a drilling in 6.5 x 55 mm or .375 H&H over 2 x 20 gauge or something along those lines but it’d be a workaday combo without any fancy engraving or wood–something I wouldn’t be afraid to shoot and get dirty.
I live in California and I am actively involved in sport shooting and hunting since I was very young and I am presently 59. I am very sad to see what is happening to our state with gun laws, bans, gun companies discontinuing sales in our state, crappy politions etc…. but I will say this to all of the other 49 states and to Californians, if we let California fall do you all think it will stop there? Our voting power is in southern California and there are a lot of liberalist idiots there unlike in the northern part of the state. Bottom line, the 2nd Amendment was put in place for us as citizens for our protection, and politicians are suppose to work for us, not us for them. There needs to be a change back to this platform before it’s to late! Remember this, “The Wolf Eats The Sheep.”
“No matter what, if a gun owner fires on cops, whether they are storming his house or not, he will be played in the media as a paranoid and dangerous gun nut with an arsenal. ”
i totally agree with that sentence. i have said it before and i will say it again. there will be no civil war II, partly because of the media. if you have 106 rounds of ammo you are labeled as having a large arsenal. if you shoot a cop with a rifle, the media will say “crazy cop killer shoots cops with illegal arsenal of assault rifles.” it will make no difference if they were coming to take your legally purchased property that you bought to defend your family against threats both foreign and domestic.
Recently had the chance to shoot 9 or 10 different 9mm at the range. They ranged from Ruger to Glock to S&W to Springfield Arms to Magnum Research to Taurus and finally to CZ. Some felt real good (grip wise ) and on the trigger pull. When I finally got to the CZ 75 P07 Duty ( I think it was # 6 or #7 that I shot) I took 2 shots , laid it dowm, and told my Buddy ” Let’s go buy one “. A short drive, one hour later, and most of my rat-hole money, I was the proud owner of a P07 Duty. This CZ is making me a better shot than I really am. It is smooth, balanced, and easy to grip. Just damn glad it was in the mix that day. I have a hand gun that’s fun to shoot and fits like a glove. Go CZ….
If anyone read Pistorius’s statement issued via his attorneys not long after his arrest, you can only conclude one thing: The man is guilty as hell.
Hell no.
I am deeply ashamed at the number of times I guffawed while reading through this thread. You’re all very bad people and you’re going to hell.
As someone who has lived with cats, I can state that giving them rockets is a Very Bad Idea.
While I would agree that a 10 round limit does not run afoul of the Second Amendment, simply banning them because of the lack of Constitutional muster is nothing more than a ban because a legislature can. MOre like a petulant child pouting because an adult removes his primary source of enjoyment, the child reverts to something it can control. Can’t ban the gun or the possession, well we will just screw with your ammo capacity. Pouting.
What this ammo limit does do is to run afoul of common sense, rational thought and is an answer in search of a problem. Anyone worth a darn can cause as much havoc with a 1911 and an 8 round magazine as one can with a larger capacity. Additionally, as some here have noted, since the police are exempt from magazine capacity limitations due to their perceived “need”, those calling for these limits have vanquished their own argument. Why should one class of people have a greater need to self defense than others? Rhetorical I know as the state considers itself to be much more important than its serfs.
Mag limits are something that need to be ignored. It is a state control on our freedom which achieves nothing more than an illustration that the state will do anything to exert that control and it will have the last word. Pouting.
What this ammo limit does do is to run afoul of common sense, rational thought and is an answer in search of a problem.
And being irrational still doesn’t make it unconstitutional?
Wars start when the aggressor feels they can engage in their aggression with a minimum of consequence.
That being the case, rattle the d*mned saber!
Sipsey Street Irregulars has this exactly right.
Make clear the price that will be paid by those wishing to declare war upon the citizenry if they follow up on their foolish threat. This way, you minimize the chance of them actually sowing the wind.
But just in case, be prepared. Engaging a SWAT team that’s breaking down your door isn’t a good tactical situation. I’d advise trying to avoid it.
This kind of thing can happen even with a worn leather holster. Two lessons..
1) not all of these stories are bullshit (you can bet people would have been throwing that flag if it wasn’t caught on camera saying he was lying).
2) Care and attention should be paid not only to any way you handle a gun but also how you dress around it. It’s like putting a gun in your pocket with your keys… no.
Take a look at that stock. That is old growth walnut. It is getting to be a very very rare commodity. I wouldn’t be able to afford even the stock blank made of that quality wood. Dammm…..
I wonder if those panels could be used as an impromptu insert for a load bearing vest? Or sewn inro regular clothing? Might be cool to see non-silly uses for a silly product
After installing the drool shield on my pad, I keep coming back to this work of art.
That stock really is simply gorgeous.
The engraving is right up there.
A knife came through the shop a few weeks ago. The engraving was just like this. Simply beautiful.
Like a fine Van Gogh, or Seurat, one simply stares. Appreciates, longs, loves, then walks away with great remorse….
I’ll pick up my Sako with mannlicher stock Wednesday.
She will need a name. She is stunning for being 30 years young.
I don’t see the gun or caliber anywhere in the article or video. Did he use a .22lr?
My favorite part was certain news outlets referring to the AR-50 as a “bolt action assault rifle”.
Bet they wouldnt have a problem if he was holding a Benelli.
Sharpton said:
“The law in effect says based on your imagination — if you imagine I’m a threat — you have the right to kill me.”
If that was truly the case, I don’t think the Rev would be around to make such statements. On the positive side, it seems like some people are starting to disagree with his “guns are the only problem” sophistry.
I just bought a WASR10 and it came with a bayonet and eight (8) free magazines. The first thing I did was to put the bayonet on the AK and it fit just fine with no wobble. I had no trouble inserting a magazine until I loaded one with Hornady 7.62×39 ammo. The magazine did not want to fit into the AK. I loaded a Red Army round into the top of the magazine and it worked just fine. I thought the stock could use a little work to make it look nice but on the bright side I could actually use the safety without a hammer. I thought it was a fairly nice AK for the money and I’m glad I bought it. It also digested the rounds without any problems.
“United States Constitutional”
It’s not often a typo makes me laugh out loud.