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If you look at the bottom right hand corner of TTAG’s home page you’ll see a widget for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. We included it because why not? DrVino clicked on the link – don’t worry, he’s OK – and discovered the image above. Clicking on that link brings you here, where you can learn “who is most at risk for emotional distress from incidents of mass violence and where to find disaster-related resources.” Fair enough? I mean . . .

They’re offering counseling to people suffering from emotional distress – for whatever reason. But is this focus on mass shootings – the first image in their slideshow – misplaced? Who kills themselves because of mass violence? Do surviving relatives? Because their loved ones were killed? How often does that happen? It seems relatively harmless, but . . . there are other suicide counseling services. Should we opt out and replace this one?

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  1. Its not a bad idea to have on there. If it ever helps one person it’s worth it. (I know I know)

    However, I’m sure there are less asinine ones out there though.

    • If there are others, why limit yourself to just one? Why not a link that provides a list of those sites to choose from?

  2. The question is whether you want those who may or may not require the help of Mental Health professionals to be able to get access to it from your site. What were the reasons you included it to begin with? I am assuming is that is because of the fact that suicides by guns is a very real thing and you want to do your part to help reduce those numbers.

  3. My thought is that there should be a link to at least some service like this. I believe you guys had the right idea putting it on the page. It has the potential to really help somebody, but even if it never did certainly it helps shed light on the responsible part of responsibly armed Americans.

  4. If there are other (maybe better?) hotlines available, switch it.
    There’s no denying that suicidal people with guns often use them when they decide to end their life, so I feel it’s important to keep something on the website. Just something a little more honest and less political.

    • ^ This!

      Get a new provider linked. This current group seems like they are more interested in promoting an agenda than they are in helping people.

      • Ding ding ding. Have some forethought and consideration in choosing your ads and you’ll make more money from them. Silly ham fisted selection seems to be the current method and all it does is make every single person install an ad blocker.

  5. I’d leave it there. Never know if someone depressed might be Googling on guns or suicide and stumble onto the site. To use the gun controller’s saying, if it saves one life, it’s worth it, but in this case IMO, it really is, because having it is not infringing on anyone’s rights at all or the website.

  6. I also don’t necessarily think they’re wrong. It’s impossible to not have deep rooted emotions rise up after a massive tragedy of any sort, natural or man-made. I don’t believe they say such a thing for any political gain.

    • The biggest thing I can think of, is, say you lose your husband/wife and your kid(s) and feel like you have no reason to go on. That’s a big one.

      I don’t think there’s actually any connection to “Seeing it happen on the news” like some people here are saying.

    • Ha! Good observation. I’m A-OK with these assholes offing themselves. Can we put up a banner that encourages them to do it WITHOUT taking anyone else with them???

      (Oh and…..I would vote to leave the banner but, keep an eye on them)

      • I know! Legalize terrorism and license it. To get the license you must pass a supervised test with a live suicide bomb vest…

  7. It’s a bit of a silly stretch, if you ask me, but even if the link gets even a single person the help they need, it’s best to have it. Hell, it might be worth moving it up a little higher where a casual wanderer will see it, rather than down at the bottom. Just my two cents.

  8. I’ve heard suicides spike this time of year. I would have expected a more holiday-themed message on their welcome page.

  9. Sounds callous but I support the right of a person to end their own life.

    But really, who is so sensitive that they feel like killing themselves after watching the news coverage of a terrorist attack?

    • I think the link to mass shootings is really, really weird; I don’t think anyone’s ever done that (unless they lost their husband/wife/child/etc and think their life has no meaning now? I don’t know.)

      But I don’t think this is about a ‘right to end your life or not’. Even if you clearly have a right to do so, doesn’t necessarily mean that you shouldn’t get a second opinion before you do.

      If I had more time on the phone with my father before I lost him to it, maybe I could have done something. As others have said, there’s no law or mandate and nobody’s forcing anyone to call.

      I agree the mass shooting link is really kind of bizarre though.

  10. I would leave it. As has been said above, you never know who it may help. I had a life long friend recently commit suicide, nobody had a clue. The person who decides to end it all is rarely he sole victim of the act as those left behind struggle to wrap their head around it all.

  11. I think it’s a good idea to have it. As far as this service compared to any other, I think the choice should be based on the quality of the service and depth of resources they provide. I wouldn’t base that decision on some silly statement on their homepage.

  12. “Who is most at risk for emotional distress from incidents of mass violence” I know it did not say, violence with guns involved….taking a wild guess: someone w/ hoplophobia?
    I say keep it. Everyone deserves any help they can get.

  13. IF:
    You are doing it to “avoid liability” then NO – find those people who you feel place that liability on you and kill them.

    You are doing it as a PSA, and everybody needs a little help/love/hug sometime, then YES

  14. Leave it. Even if their first image may be misguided, I’m sure that victims families going through tremendous grief may have the thought of suicide cross their minds.
    Having been in a dark place before (yet simultaneously being a gun enthusiast) I believe it may reach someone who needs it.

  15. Leave it. The site is The Truth About Guns.

    Here are the numbers from Deans article on the 29th.

    Suicide rate in the United States 12.1 per 100,000
    Murder rate in the U.S. 2015 4.5 per 100,000
    U.S. Fatal Firearm Accident rate in 2015 .2 per 100,000

    Since suicide deaths by gun has the highest rate per 100,000, and people looking for gun information often land on TTAGs pages. That little ad has a greater chance to save a life than any gun legislation enacted or ever proposed.

    Lives don’t get saved by Laws no matter how much progressives believe it to be true. They get saved when good people connect and help each other. That phone number provideds the connection that some peole need.

    • I know exactly who he is – and he knows exactly who I am. He’s a good guy and I have a lot of respect for his views.

      • I feel so out of the loop…..I hit this site ten times a day and have no idea who Dr. Vino is. Maybe I should pay more attention. Does he treat hemorrhoids?

        • DrVino doesn’t comment much anymore (if ever), but he was one of the most prolific and insightful commentators here for a while. Being a Californian, when the Sandy Hook insanity hit, he was like one of TTAG’s special-forces operators in the enemy’s political territory. From tidbits he’s dropped here and there, I gather that he is an actual doctor in a specialty field (Hemorrhoids? I ain’t going there), an oenophile, and that he immigrated to the US and became a citizen.

          And Accur81 vouches for him, so that would be good enough even if I knew nothing else. 🙂

          These days he seems to be TTAG’s most prolific tipster. Keep an eye out for it, and you’ll see a hat-tip to DrVino beneath an article at least a couple times a week.

  16. I think people who do this for real arn’t going to seek any help nor are they going to tell anyone. They will just do it.
    Fakebookers who are looking for attention will half-ass it.

    Keep it up. one person ect. ect.

  17. “It’s not uncommon to feel anxious after an incident of mass violence.” Mass violence does not necessarily mean mass shooting. It must be a slow day at the office because I’m a little surprised at how sensitive to the anti-gun agenda you’d have to be, to remove a suicide prevention service, because they might be hinting that mass shootings cause people to feel depressed.

    Mass shootings are, in fact, still a bad thing. Maybe the suicide prevention operators can talk some people into being less fearful by taking a more active role in their personal safety against those who would do them harm.

    • Of course. Same thing!
      Didn’t you hear Obama say it doesn’t happen in other countries? Because gun laws!

  18. FYI– Ever since the ads started appearing between every few articles on the main page, your website crashes chrome (on mobile). For me and two people I know.

    I’m going to have to stop coming here– please fix!!

  19. Leave it. You have one less avenue for anti-gunners to accuse you of being “heartless.” Also, people certainly use firearms to commit suicide. TTAG is part of the responsible gun ownership community, and acknowledging the tragedy of suicide is a rational and responsible thing to do.

  20. This world has enough candy-ass whiners, if somebody wants to kill themselves they can go right ahead, especially if they’re a liberal/union thug

      • Don’t have to, make that ONLY liberals/union thugs should kill themselves. Seriously, the less of them the better. Same with Muslims.

        I have no sympathy for people that think its okay to kill an defenseless unborn child, take our guns, impose secularism on everyone, and destroy the economy and waste taxpayer money on their ridiculous unsustainable wages and benefits.

  21. I believe that we never hear from the people who are serious about suicide..
    So yeah.. maybe it’s just a call for help.. leave it up.

  22. Leave it. What you can drop is the vapid, insipid click bait ads. I know they pay the bills but most of the armed intelligencia probably isn’t clicking the garbage on the ad. Are there better ways to advertise? Who gives a shit about some pics of Kate Middleton or Kim Kardashian or diet pills? Suicide prevention ads are a way better alternative.

    • Agree. Why aren’t we seeing ads for gun shops (Classic, AIM, Atlantic, Tombstone, hell even Brownells and Cabelas) here versus this crappy “LOCAL MOM LOST 12 LBS ON HER CAR INSURANCE WITH THIS ONE WEIRD TRICK” ?

      Note – I lost my father to suicide a couple of years ago, and sometimes it is a ‘permanent solution to a temporary problem’ – It’s not implying cause, but there’s often a firearms/suicide intersection, and someone may see it and call and be helped.

      If anything makes the site look bad, it’s those, not the Suicide Prevention Hotline things. (Most of the local gun shops around here actually have suicide prevention flyers/posters up.)

      If I have to see that guy with the open sore on the back of his ear one more time I’m turning adblock back on on here.

      • Why aren’t we seeing ads for gun shops (Classic, AIM, Atlantic, Tombstone, hell even Brownells and Cabelas) here

        1. Because the firearms retailers already have us.
        2. Because click ads don’t do diddly squat to drive sales and only a moron burning venture capital buy such.

    • Don’t forget the jailbait awful prom pictures add and the WTF wedding photos ads! I wish we could get ads like on Full30. Stuff about training, guns and gun related products. I actually sit through those ads and have everything unblocked for adblock. If I go here at work I have to make sure I am in my office because I never know what semi NSFW ad picture might pop up as I’m scrolling on my phone.

    • Who gives a shit about some pics of Kate Middleton or Kim Kardashian or diet pills?

      Wait — there’s pictures of Kate Middleton and Kim Kardashian on diet pills? Are they naked?

  23. To those who say “if it saves one life” and cringe, just remember, nobody is forcing anyone to call the hotline. There is no law making people put the hotline link on a page. It is completely voluntary. The anti gunners want to force people to have their lives restricted under the guise of “if it saves one life”.

  24. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for someone that wants to end their own life either but, your comment isn’t necessarily in the best interest of the responsible firearm owners community. I apologize for playing the PC card but Shannon and her minions are on here daily trolling for comments that fit the heartless gun nut stereotype and your comment does not disappoint. Just sayin’

  25. Remove it. If one is serious about leaving life, that’s their business. One less life outbound no longer sucking resources…I’m ok with that.

    For all you all offended by that statement, work through it cause that’s the way I roll.

  26. Survivors of traumatic experiences. Parents left behind with empty chairs where their children used to sit. Partners with bills to pay but one fewer source of income. Depressed teenagers who don’t know any better and want to ‘be with’ their departed boyfriend or girlfriend again.

    These are some people who may be served by the suicide hotline after a shooting incident. Because it is a legitimate class of people who may be served by the message, it should stay. It may help someone when they need help most.

  27. Hell no, leave it! I clicked on that link so fast after getting my comments deleted for “flaming” and there’s a real good chance of needing it in the future.

  28. I see no particular reason to change it. It doesn’t really offend me, even if it is lost and confused on the subject of guns. That is not the supposed expertise of the site. If you want to do something, send them a nastygram as one of their presenting sites.

  29. Honestly I didn’t know it was there until this. I’d say not only keep it, but make it as prominent as the damn clickbait ads.

  30. if you are getting paid to host the link, great; take the money and run. if you host it as a public service, well, whatever.

    btw, the adult children who make-up the leftists believe any inconvenient situation is likely to lead to suicide among other adult children who never before had anything difficult in their lives. like someone calling then names.

  31. Leave it up.

    It wouldn’t have helped the person I knew who took his life, but if it helps someone, let it stay up…

  32. I take great exception to the idea that people commit suicide because of mass violence. If you could remove just that part, I think the rest is well done. That mass violence screen is political propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less. If you can’t make that single change, I’d dump it and find a more truthful widget. But dammit Jim, I’m just a country ER nurse, not a starship captain.

    • “who is most at risk for emotional distress from incidents of mass violence and where to find disaster-related resources.”
      I think the mass violence upon fellow pilots in the Med in WWII put my Uncle in the P-38 Ward, but in normal life….not so much.
      I was never in a war, but I have seen the aftermath of some really neat tornadoes and that can be messy, but I just never was very suicidal about the whole thing. Mostly, I felt lucky.

  33. I know more about this subject than I’d like. I say its fucking disgusting. My guess is its only being done to ass-kiss for better funding or donations, God forgive me if I’m wrong, maybe they are just reaching out to San Bernadino, but how many people have ever commited suicide because of a mass shooting related depression vs how many adolecents every year because of hazing or depression or misdiagnosed medication, the same goes for combat vets, the same for woman suffering post-pardum depression. Their front page ought to be concentrating on those who are at the highest risk, which are Veterans if im not mistaken, over 20 will commit suicide today and every day, how many people will kill themselves today because of mass shooting related depression? Probably none. I’m going to guess maybe 1-2 this year at most. Still, don’t take it down unless you have another better number to replace it with. I bet more people commit suicide over this New Years holiday from depression than have killed themselves as a result of Mass Shooting related suicide ever. Political agendas have no place here, but then again, suicide prevention lines are usually underfunded, so maybe they do what they can to bring in money, I hope they don’t alienate the vets, who are probably pro-gun, by doing this kind of shit. They could have.just sent a private memo to all the big prospective contributers asking for help reaching people suffering from mass-suicide related depression rather than sucking up to anyone who might be sympathetic while potentially alienating those who are really at risk by posting this shit on their home page.

  34. Honestly I never noticed it. But leave it up-especially as so many lonely/depressed off themselves during the holiday season.

  35. It would be better to take down the half page of insulting, tabloid adds TTAG has stuck in the middle of every visit lately.

  36. Take the higher ground and leave it here. Just because you may or may not agree with a message or slogan on the group’s site, doesn’t mean you should stoop to its level and remove what very well may be a life-saving link for someone at some point. The widget is much like a gun: if you need it and don’t have it, you probably won’t need it again.

  37. I saw this on here the other day and thought it was awesome. When people need help most they have blinders on, so any little reminders can really turn the tide. On top of that, if we want a healthy gun culture we need to help everyone be their happiest, healthiest selves.

  38. I would recommend you explore what happens if someone actually uses the service. Several of my veteran friends who have PTSD are reluctant (for good reason) to seek “help” at the VA fearing the do-gooders will try to confiscate their firearms.
    I for one will never seek professional counseling for any “mental” issue for fear of the repercussions of the “helping community”. I have a network of non-professional confidants that I rely on to take my emotional/mental temperature. No pros for me.
    And before any of you here give me a hard time, do a little self inventory and see if you are one of those advocating for keeping guns out of the hands of the “mentally ill”. Well, are you one of those? Who decides who is mentally ill? Perhaps anyone who would want to own a gun will be declared mentally ill if the “helping community” gets their way.
    Think about it and be careful what you wish for.
    Happy New Year

  39. They print the name and number to Gamblers Anonymous on the back of lottery tickets. I’ve seen signs for AA to the same effect at a liquor store here and there.

    I get the counter argument, that we’re suggesting guns in and of themselves lead to suicide. That’s a typical point the antis make, though they torture the data until it confesses agreement. Nevertheless, most gun deaths are in fact suicides. That’s part of the truth about guns.

    Maybe someone comes here seeking truth about guns, particularly what gun, caliber and body part is best to kill themselves with. Maybe suicide really isn’t the answer for that person and exposure to other options by way of the hotline could be timely.

    Go ahead and keep the widget.

  40. The offending item is just one in a slideshow and is the only one I saw which I found offensive. Perhaps a better way to handle this might be to write or call the organization and explain why the item is both offensive and ineffective. Perhaps an alternative could be offered as well.

  41. I just realized they are also trying to scare people who might be considering arming themselves in the wake of San Bernardino, not to buy (more) guns and that is fucking gross.

  42. Should you? No, because there will always be people out there, gun owners or not, that might need these services. Case in point: the military gives us annual suicide prevention training because it matters.

  43. Leave it there. No sense getting offended by a mildly suggestive slide. That’s what liberals do.
    To those who say sonething to the effect of “if they wanna leave this life, good riddence,” I would sat that suicidal people can change their minds, assuming they don’t go through with it. It’s easy to spout tough guy horse manure online, but perhaps your mind would change if someone you care about offed themselves. Assuming, of course, that there are actually people you care about.

  44. I don’t know what causes people to kill themselves. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that this is real problem.

  45. I’d leave it. Some people will have problems after violent attack because they watched too much news or walked out of the room 5 minutes before it started to take a call or use the bathroom. Exposure to mental health services is a good thing. As long as the therapists don’t believe in animism (the belief that holding a firearm turns a normal person into a crazy person), its a good thing.

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