Saul Alinksy, Rules for Radicals: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” That’s why so many TTAG commentators think we should dial back our coverage on Shannon Watts. They know that Shannon’s anti-gun group, Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America—formerly One Million Moms for Gun Control—is a sham. MDA doesn’t have anywhere near that level of grass-roots support (hence the name change). But the mainstream media treats Watts as if she has power, thus giving her power. Our readers think we’re doing the same thing. Which is true. But just like the MSM, we get something out of the deal . . .
“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
“A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
“Keep the pressure on. Never let up.”
“The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.”
“The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.”
“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
Also Alinsky. Also true. Truth be told, if Shannon Watts didn’t exist, we’d have to invent her. The gun rights movement needs a living, breathing target that we can expose, personalize and ridicule. And I don’t mind her knowing it because she works from the same playbook. See that cartoon up top? Like that.
That said, like all good philosophy providers, Alinsky covered his *ss: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Which raises the question: are we all Shannoned-out? Should TTAG stop or ease-up on the Watts bashing? Or have we not yet begun to demonize?
I think we’re approaching the peak, for sure. If she says something that’s provably false, knock that shit out of the park. But I don’t think every instance of her fantastical lunatic ravings should get a headline.
I agree with you Matt. Personally I am Shannoned out. She is a blip on a big radar screen. Lets focus on the task at hand, not the fly hovering over the disarm button she cant push.
Yeah, I think I dozed off while the blip was on the screen.
One Hundred Thousand Moms for Gun Control. Ten Thousand Moms for Gun Control. A Hundred or So Moms for Gun Control. A Dozen Moms for Gun Control Making a Large Racket. Mom’s Gun Control Racket….
I agree with all of that and would add that it gives some people a reason to act like 13 year olds who just discovered their first pubic hair.
That har-har-she-really-needs-some-action bullshit is immature, unhelpful and disrespectful.
Every time someone does that crap, it’s just one more example for her to use to “prove” that we’re all misogynistic cretins.
Is she right? If not, than cut it the hell out.
And no, it’s not just a bunch of “harmless jokes.” What if I said that stuff about your sister/wife/mom?
I think there’s probably some correlation between the boys you cite and the swaggering smartasses looking to pick a fight. The most recent confrontation I saw a video of here, the cop says, “Can I see your ID?” and they refused. That’s dumb and counterproductive. Why should I withhold my ID? My name is a matter of public record, for heavens sakes!
But, in the interest of truth in reporting, I’ve NEVER had a bad experience with the cops, other than the fact that they wrote me up for violating the law I was violating. But they’ve always been professional and respectful, probably because I don’t challenge them.
It’s like one of the methods for acquiring free grass, also one way to avoid any kind of fight: “Be very very nice to everyone you meet.”
Works for me!
Those are some entertaining and harmless jokes. I’ve heard more about Watts than I ever wanted too (I’ve in fact never heard of her other than on TTAG . . .conspiracy?). However if everything said about Watts had been said about my mother after she shot her mouth off like this I’d have to counsel my mother to stay out of the public eye. I wouldn’t take any of it personally.
You say its disrespectful as if thinking SW deserves respect.
I have an open source project that aims to do the target side of this equation better using any ol’ webcam + laptop:
https://github.com/phrack/ShootOFF/wiki
Woud love feedback.
I’ll check it out at home. Thanks!
Dirk is going to have some very strong feelings about this…
“More kids die from car accidents than from cancer too, but you don’t see Shannon Watts going around stumping for sports car control.”
Actually, there are more than a few groups that oppose everything from sports cars (want them limited in speed) to cigars, pornography, red meat, you know the drill. In my mind they form an organization I lovingly refer to as “Hysterical Harpies Against Everything Men Love.”
Let’s talk about anything other than Shannon Watts.
Chilblains. Okay, that’s it for chilblains. But Shannon Watts is still there. Ignore her at your own peril.
I can tell you exactly when the last time my defensive ammo was fired…
01/2013 for the one P30
10/2013 for both P2000SK’s
I have twins for a reason, and one of each pair is always loaded with defensive ammo. Come to notice, one of the P30’s has never seen defensive ammo (it’s not the one currently loaded that way though.) I might have to correct that.
More gun and gear reviews fewer politics. Everyone here already likes guns.
Nothing against reviews of cool guns and gear, but latest news on gun issues is why I come here.
Sometime we need to be reminded what’s worth fighting for, and have a face to attach to the enemy.
So far everything she posts have been a winner for us so lets ride this “thing” for a while yet.
You know if they feel so intimidated perhaps they should get guns of their own to protect themselves.
“perhaps they should get guns of their own ”
They’d much rather use the guns of government, that way they don’t have to get their hands dirty. It’s called violence by proxy.
Yes. As noted here and so many other places, when anti-2A types and pacifists feel intimidated by people with guns (not just criminals, but anyone with a gun) what do they do? they call 911 and wait for a government official with a gun to show up to “save” them.
Yes, we should start ignoring her. Take our fight to people that matter.
I also think everyone reading should think a little before posting comments. This may be the internet, but if you wouldn’t get up and say it in front of your neighbors/friends/family, perhaps it ought not be said.
My personal opinion is that the media coverage moms demand attention gets outweighs whatever pull and clout they actually have. Shannon Watts going on the Ed Show really isn’t going to reach a lot of people because nobody watches it. The top 4 or 5 gun channels on YouTube have exponentially higher subscribers. I don’t think they are that organized nor do they seem to push any cohesive, unifying action. Sometimes it is about universal background checks, other times it is about complete disarmament. They project a noise of static that seems pretty garbled and all over the place to me. They will eventually fade into dust I hope.
We should have a PG-13 Shannon photoshop contest.
She gets more out of your coverage than you get out of taking her on.
Her ranting has changed the minds of how many people here at TTAG, exactly? No one here has made her a media stat; that would be other people.
RF: I think we can continue to refute, rebut, and remove credibility to MDA’s so-called facts and other general misinformation. The #gunbullies is a perfect example. Just because someone does something you don’t like- and it’s completely legal- calling that action intimidation is fear-mongering at best; lying at worst.
As long as we stick to logical facts and evidence, we can stand above reproach, as her and her ilk routinely insult and berate gun rights people. That’s not to say we’re doing right, either. There are a lot of gun rights people that are doing harm; playing the same game as Shannon. We have to be better than them.
It’s obviously an ATTEMPT at intimidation, wouldn’t you agree?
An SAA is on my short list. This piece is stunning, and far beyond my wildest dreams. Why is it, though, that Colt can’t seem to make a revolver where the cylinder lock doesn’t drag and score the cylinder?
You got a winner there, James. The gun’s OK, too.
One cannot “intimidate” someone who doesn’t want to be intimidated, and that’s a fact. However frightening they may legitimately be, “intimidating” requires the cooperation of the intimidated.
MDA has trained all their lives to play the victim. Regardless of what actually happened they’re the victim, it’s the only role they can bring to the stage.
But no one has asked the most important question in the open carry debate: did I win the FNS-40?!?!?!?
I have been hitting my limit. We don’t want to give her press for her stupidity. I think more importantly we need to look at the comments on the items they push. Their followers tend to be, well nuts.
They say we are terrorists and bullies. Well some of the folks that claim to be anti gun have some pretty strong feelings they are vocal about. Exploit those that her followers want us dead, etc.
Sure we can hit back against the obvious, high capacity clips etc, but you discredit them when media picks up on their comments about the death and destruction of our families.
‘Housekeeping’ is right, she needs to go back into that kitchen and make us all some sammiches. Hehehe
Assholery aside, I think it depends on ‘them’. If they can find a new champion for their cause, we can go after them. Shannon/DiFi/Bloomberg are getting somewhat stale.
I enjoy a good righteous flaming as much as the next guy, but it’s gotten rather monotonous of late. More Rebecca ‘Nice Head (TM)’ Schoenkopf’s help our side, while being all the more satisfying.
That said, SigGuy has a point. I originally stumbled upon TTAG looking for a good review of the FN FiveSeven. I stayed to look through the other reviews of gear and obscure guns and eventually decided to stay, enjoying news and opinion pieces such as this.
MDA is insignificant. Shannon Watts is insignificant. The recent incident would have been nothing if a bunch of people didn’t show up to a meeting of four MDA members (pretty typical; seems like all their events score single digits even including the children they bring) and provide a photo op for MDA to spin. Starbucks would probably have ignored MDA completely if a bunch of people didn’t show up open carrying rifles to “show appreciation” (when Starbucks had basically asked nicely not to be drug into any political debate). Ridicule them if the urge strikes you, but don’t take them seriously.
“MDA is insignificant. Shannon Watts is insignificant”
INSIGNIFICANT? When’s the last time you were asked to give your opinion on national television?
I think TTAG is fine to refute any idiotic, bad “fact” she spits… otherwise, I’d rather more coverage been given to other things.
She’s a small, shrill, unreasonable Monsanto hack. Let’s not make her into the Goliath of the Gun Control lobby.
Doing 4 stories a day on TTAG about SW and MDA only increases “buzz” and get’s her more TV interviews. This isn’t a real debate it’s a marketing campaign.
Unless you want her to get REAL power, ignore her.
Don’t put her on TTAG until you have naughty pictures she thought her college roommate threw away years ago.
A Weekly Review w/the Comment Filter kicked-up a bit (there are a number of Progressive Communists in Gunny Clothing who delight in going all Misogynist to the detriment of our cause
I’m sick of hearing about this woman.
She is one of millions of moms – her opinion counts for no more or less than theirs.
She cannot make policy.
She is not an elected representative.
Shes not even married to an elected representative.
She has little support or membership.
She will not engage in rational discourse.
She is not an expert on any relevant field of study.
Shes not a victim or authority of any kind.
In short, she is merely a trauma celebrity – and how much credibility to we give celebrity?
Why then do we give her the time of day? Energy spent on her is wasted and could be better used elsewhere and it lends her more credibility than she merits (see all the above reasons). My vote is cease and desist.
It is getting to be the same old, same old. Debunking her is fine, but anything on this site is pretty much preaching to the choir. We know she is a manipulative liar. It’s other people that need to know it, if they have even heard of her. (I am not convinced she has much of a following within the general public.)
No, it doesn’t. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Regardless of the claims made by the FUDs who decided to grace us with their presence, because on like some other sites we actually welcome discourse here, it is only when a right is abused that its exercise is detrimental.
To wit, there are legal terms for this abuse, including but not limited to: menacing, brandishing, and threatening. Here in my state of North Carolina, you could be charged with “going armed to the terror of the public”.
Contrary to the belief of some people here (and you know exactly who you are and your credentials don’t matter either), the simple act of openly carrying any weapon does not in itself carry with it an implicit threat. If anyone really wants to argue that point further, start with the case of Miller v. Texas and go forward. Happy reading.
Before that, allow me to offer you some food for thought:
“The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)
Moving right along, broad-stroking all practitioners of open-carry — which IS exactly what some people here did — with such a broad brush as “zealot” is disingenuous at best. With the way some people here have gone on at length to emphasize their ready willingness to do so, it’s flat-out dishonest and malicious at worst. I would go so far as to say that that behavior makes them every bit as bad as the elitist, gun-grabbing hypocrites we all proclaim to be fighting. They’re using the exact same logic and tactics. It’s disgusting, quite frankly. To even say that most practitioners and/or advocates of open-carry are “zealots” or even so much as “confrontational” is an out-right lie. P E R I O D.
As has been pointed out in many articles here, the right to keep and bear arms is not grounded in public opinion nor is it based on public utility. Further, in states that allow open-carry, it’s reasonable to conclude that on some level, it enjoys at least some degree of public acceptance. Perhaps not agreement per se, which would be utterly irrelevant anyway, but acceptance. It also doesn’t matter if open-carry is not considered “normal” behavior in any particular place. ANY reservations held by bystanders are solely their problem and theirs alone, and their personal feelings have absolutely no real-world bearing on our right to keep and arms. So, that being said, to claim that most of the voting public is against it is, too, a flat-out lie (and completely irrelevant).
Even if the Second Amendment were somehow by some miracle repealed, it was found by the SCOTUS that the rights enumerated in the Constitution preexisted the government starting waaaaay back when with U.S. v. Cruikshank. In other words, we have a prima facie right to keep and bear arms regardless of whether or not the right is enumerated. There are also the 9th and 10th Amendments that, by extension, also protect and affirm the right.
In conclusion, the only time a right is “lost” is when it goes unexercised or abused — and open-carry is not abusive.
/thread.
While I do agree she’s been covered all out of proportion, I don’t want her to skulk about beneath the radar and do some damage while we’re not looking. Maybe keep up the MDA watch, but summarize it weekly?
Q.: Has the Second Amendment outlived its usefulness?
Allow me to answer your question with another question, which is two-fold: 1.) Since when has any right outlived its usefulness, and 2.) since when has any right been grounded in social utility or public opinion?
The answer to those two questions are: Never and never. Ergo, the answer everybody is (or should be) looking for to the first question is, precisely, “No.”
And it never will.
Additionally, I pay absolutely no mind whatever to malicious, ignorant, arrogant, small-minded and uneducated little curmudgeons like Dershowitz that exhibits the a-typical behavior of a school-yard bully that has only ever engaged his opposition with ad-hominem circumstantial attacks, non-sequitur post-hoc ergo proctor hoc arguments, as well as (and not limited to) relying entirely bleeding heart and appeal to emotion and unqualified authority premises.
In short, fuck that guy.
OMG! The people protesting our anti gun group have guns! OMG!
We fully expected the protesters of our gun abolition group to come unarmed, the irony, OMG!
Just to keep it pithy. Her 15 minutes are up!
Finally have .380 cal. on the shelf at Academy, here in a small town west of Houston. All the slots were about full, except for .22 cal. I was buying the Mossberg 88 Maverick I have thought about for some time. Dreamed about actually, anyway, enough about my lack of a sex life. For all the talk of .380 being subpar defensive wise, it was one of the first sold out. I checked on that particular cal., there were a few “badder and better” types. Think I will stick with the Fed hydra-shok 90 gr. for now, the Bersa loves them. Good to see variety of choice in any case. Owning a firearm is like a lot of other things, it ain’t what you got, it is what you do with it.
Giving Shannon time just gives her more power. More attention the more legitimacy we give her. Marginalize her. Act like she does not exist. In responses, never mention or elude that this woman or her “organization” said anything. Answer as though a private citizen asked a question. No more, no less. But respectfully. Minimize as they are of no consequence.
Do this for all these pretend organizations.
Something went south, too lazy to type it all over.
Edit by Jeremy S. — your comment is above. Pretty sure the spam filter snagged it for some juicy key words in there…
ok, well, those rounds are pretty light, a little less than half ordinary rounds. Call me skeptical until I see the ballistic gel tests. Sure, on paper halving the weight and increasing the speed will increase the FPE. But I suspect that these bullets will heavily fragment and not penetrate very deep. They may indeed be very nasty, but birdshot is very nasty too, and i would not trust it with my life. I want to see some tests.
Recently bought a 12 a gauge Yildiz over and under. Can you use steel shot in these guns ?
Not only can modern ammunition (properly stored of course) out live you, and probably your great-grandchildren to boot, today’s double-base and triple-base nitrocellulose “smokeless” powders contain their own oxidizers which means you can shoot your guns in space.
How’s them apples?
Also of note: there are peeps that have ammunition that is over 100 years old — and it still fires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l192lVUlqI
SPAAAACE
My dad bought a laserlyte+target setup a year or two ago (big red target with 2 small circles below for target reset/etc). The laser works well, always goes off. The target is a massive deuce, and is completely worthless as far as I’m concerned. It rarely works, even at point blank range. Tried in a variety of lighting conditions (incandescent, flourescent, outside in the dark) and it still rarely works. Sent the target and laser in to Laserlyte twice and both times got back a target that doesn’t work. I’m pretty good at diagnostics (IT technician), striving for consistency in testing, and could absolutely not figure out something that would work reliably.
Buyer beware. Webcam based solutions will likely be better in the long run… looking forward to a reasonably priced solution that will work with my projection system and a computer/webcam.
http://www.laserlyte.com/products/laser-trainer-target
Avoid like the plague. Seems like other reviewers have the same problem.
I say blow up the dangerous crap like her “gun facts” tweets, and made-up stats, as happened today, but ignore everything else connected to her. Every rally, blog post, outhouse, doghouse, etc.
Ignore her at every moment, except whenever she presents a credible threat; even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Our rights are just like a muscle. Exercise it frequently, it will get stronger. Exercise it enough, it will stay healthy. Never exercise it, it will get weaker and eventually be useless.
I reject the false choice that only only way to keep our rights is to live like we don’t have them in the first place.
Why is that cartoon attached to this article?
No seriously I can’t think of a reason.
Because that’s how they see us?
Based upon the comments I’ve read on TTAG alone; that’s how some in our own gun community demonize OCers. That cartoon could have been created solely just by reading what some of the more anti-2A gun owners have written in comments. Practically every element of that cartoon, I’ve read described throughout the different pages. It exemplifies the false image that our own people have created out of their fear and loathing.
Repeating the truth every time they lie, which is always, is never a bad thing!
Nope, not a bad thing . . . but if TTAG reported every MDA lie, this would be The Truth About Shannon T watts.
That, or a human predator attempting to mug you; “a conservative is a liberal that was mugged”.
Once we’d run the gamut of double entendres around her group’s name, which was fun, that neatly marked the outer bounds of my interest in playing with her. When it moved into Twitter tweet tit for tat, I started skipping reading entries referencing her group.
But does it have guns?
Fu– the bitch.That is all
Skip SW and bring back the Israeli and South African models.
Can we put this cat back in the bag, and toss it off a bridge.
Pretty sure the guy on the right is actually Quagmire from Family Guy.
lol Indy is one of the most armed states. At one point (not sure if it the same today, don’t know the source date) Indiana was more armed then Florida. I would not want to be a criminal in most of the suburban areas outside of Indianapolis, especially towards the country side(aka corn fields aka squares). Believe me I’m still shocked that this “I should really be seeing her in porn movies” is in Indiana.
My experience when I managed a gun counter is that most woman looking for a home defense firearm want one that will drop the perp in one shot. They ain’t messing around when they decide to take responsibility for themselves and their children. 12 gauge, .357 mag and 45’s seemed to be their prefrence. Recoil be damned.
FACT: Moms kill 200+ infants a year (maternal filicide – intentional killing of an infant). The U.S. has the highest rate of filicide in the world. Ban moms Now! #shannonwatts – That is wayyy more than any concealed carry killers #momsdemandaction #GunSense
Have you seen her testosterone lacking, wimpy, typical coward liberal husband? She probably sits at home hoping a man comes in and serves her up right. That coward husband would probably help tie her up and then volunteer to bend himself over.
Btw: why does she always look like she is xanaxed out in every pic?
I worked with two women at my local department of labor in a blue state. I was a contractor, they were there for their career so they were obviously liberals. One of them eventually found out I owned a firearm and the next day I was terminated from that position. Coincidence? Yeah, that’s what I said.
Anyway, the point of me bringing this up is that they were both prescribed Xanax and would whisper to each other and giggle about whether they had “popped one” recently or not. It was disturbing and they were constantly shirking their duties at work. Sometimes their eyes were just glassed over completely.
That’s the real story behind these liberal women: They’re Stepford wives. We are over medicating people in this country and it is women and children first.
“… this has a lot of potential for being a really good show featuring guns. …”
We shall see. I admit I watch a lot of DC stuff/reality shows and overall they tend to marginalize firearms more often than not.
It’s set to premiere Sunday, December 8th at 10 PM.
Oh, darn it. That’s the day I set aside to rearrange my sock drawer.
Can we get an Indiegogo / Kickstarter fundraiser set up to get a billboard asking Shannon Watts questions in a very open and public manner?
Depending on size and location, expect to pay from $75 to $200 per month for rural sites, and from to $900 to $2,500 per month for city and interstate signs. If you’re renting more than one billboard, negotiate a discount. The billboards on Sunset Boulevard in West Hollywood run $10,000 per month, whereas the monthly tab for the billboard in Jonesboro, Arkansas, is $525 entering town and $375 on your way back out.
Sources: http://www.ehow.com/how_110730_rent-own-billboard.html
So did anyone watch it? Who won?
Does no one remember the Stinger pen gun? It would arguably be innocuous enough to pass through detection along with your change and watch…
ABS? How about polycarbonate? Nylon? Delrin? Fiberglass? Carbon nanotubes? Graphite composite? Stycast?
Or here’s a radical idea – what if we quit assaulting them and making new little terrorists? Does anybody have any idea what Bush and now Obama are trying to accomplish by pissing off thousands and thousands of people who otherwise wouldn’t even care that we existed?
I think Dershowitz had outlived his usefulness. If he ever had any.
Why, Ms. Watts would call 911 and wait for the police to come to her rescue, while asking her assailants to wait until help arrives, of course.
Yeah, because a guy SO bent on killing someone that he’s willing to take his life in his hands by making a plastic gun that may explode in his hand and risk life in prison sneaking it through a security checkpoint will certainly be stopped by an obscure firearms manufacturing law he probably isn’t even aware of…
It’s your reviews that keeps the poor guys like me from spending our savings on something we won’t like.
Case in point, the PF-9 got a glowing review from a certain long winded YouTube personality, so I bought one. I am ashamed to even let my friends shoot it. Bye bye money, I shoulda got something else. Now I’m stuck until I can save up for something else.
My assumption from your scenario at the top is that this is temporary and law and order will return. This opens the door to prosecution of crimes committed during the time of lawlessness.
Due to the public’s ignorant views on suppressors, based largely on movies and James Bond type novels, I would choose the 12 ga. Many will make the assumption that the suppressed pistol is an assassination tool for wet work operations and more suited to offensive actions rather than self defense.
The 12 ga. is a traditional self defense tool and will be looked at more favorably by the public and police. If you are going to stay in place, deterrence is your friend, unless you have a bunker under your house and can disappear from the neighbors and looters going through your house.
I’ll take the Walther if the ammo is good.
Small, concealable, light, quicker accurate follow up shots and quiet. Cycle the .22 behind the front door and nobody’s the wiser, rack that shotty 2 blocks over and everyone knows where you are!
Also, SHTF I’ll be going after the people who threw the S into the F. Suppressed pistol will allow me the noise advantage to actually escape.
I so badly wanted to carry my Kimber, but after three completely different holsters I gave up, never being able to successfully hide the end of the grip. Your shape is everything to your carry choice. Middle aged and short waisted, my shapelessness tends towards pear. As a result, appendix was out, IWB at four o’clock was out, and an OWB wouldn’t keep the gun tight to my side. I recently got a skinny little Kahr CW9 that literally disappears under an overshirt or jacket.
If it is MY PROPERTY then I have the right to set the rules. I don’t want you smoking in my house I rent to you, and you think I should give up my property rights so you can stink up the house and potentially cause a fire? Maybe I don’t want a religion in there that kills chickens for sacrifice. I know these are kind of extremes but sorry, if you don’t like the terms of my lease agreement, go rent somewhere else. So long as I am the owner of the property, its my rules, period.
I do respect Guns & Ammo for taking decisive action on all this and accept their apology, but I no longer care what Mr. Metcalf has to say anymore and have long since moved on.