Gun Review: SIG SAUER P365 Manual Safety

Josh Wayner for TTAG

Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you’ll know that SIG SAUER has upped the ante in the concealed carry and self-defense world with their P365. For the cave dwellers among you, the P365 — SIG calls it “America’s most popular handgun” — is a sub-compact 9mm pistol that boasts excellent accuracy and a staggering 10+1 standard capacity in a very compact form factor.

Recently they raised the bar by making their already innovative pistol safer in the eyes of many people, this writer included.

The P365 variant here, announced at this year’s SHOT Show, features a manual thumb safety. That may not seem like that much of a big deal until you realize that a manual safety is a make or break option for many, many shooters. I conducted an informal survey among several dozen people I encountered in the course of my daily travels and about two-thirds of the crowd wanted an external safety.

Tactical polo bros rarely value a manual safety and sometimes consider it to be a dangerous feature or an outright liability. This high-speed mentality often ignores the fact that the majority of people who carry aren’t gun people and want simple, safe features that they are comfortable with.

I won’t get into the nuances of this mentality as I could never consume enough Monster Energy flavored vape cartridges to put myself into the mindset necessary to relay it to you.

Suffice to say, even routine actions like loading and holstering can lead to an accidental discharge or an unsafe situation when no manual safety is present. The fact that the gun is basically ready to fire the moment you put your hand on the grip is not something that delights many people, especially those who carry off-body in a purse, backpack, or diaper bag.

The addition of a manual safety model to the P365 line is the thing that fully convinced me to make this a daily use carry gun. I previously reviewed the original P365 and liked it, but I never really felt great about carrying it. The triggers on the P365 pistols I have tested are light and crisp, just like a full-size pistol.

The small grip and crisp trigger made it so that I was somewhat uncomfortable with carrying it for fear of an accidental discharge. The addition of a manual safety makes me completely comfortable with it now in both a pocket holster or IWB.

Josh Wayner for TTAG

I have carried a Smith & Wesson .38 J-Frame for years and it has no manual safety. It also has a super-heavy double action trigger that really can’t be pulled by accident.

The SIG P365 has a trigger pull that’s significantly lighter at about 7 lbs, which puts it in the same range as most regular 1911s and some AR rifles. That’s relatively light, which, in my book, makes it absolutely necessary to exercise caution when carrying with a round chambered. There is no trigger safety, so it is imperative that you are unerringly careful.

While it may not seem like a huge upgrade, the manual thumb safety makes the P365 one of the safest everyday carry guns on the market today. The safety itself is ambidextrous and clicks positively into position. A great feature of this model is that it can be loaded and unloaded with the safety on. The same can’t be said for many other guns which only allow loading with the thumb safety off.

15 round magazines do add a bit of length, however they are great for a backup mag. (Josh Wayner for TTAG)

Aside from the safety, the features of the gun are the same as the standard P365 (see our review here). Night sights are standard. They’re easy to use and are very easy to pick up in low light or total darkness. Magazines drop free with no hangups. Included with the gun are two, 10-round mags, one with a short finger extension and the other a flush fit version. Twelve and 15-round extended mags are available, too.

I tested this new SIG P365 version with the safety with a mountain of ammunition to fully ensure that it’s able to pass my own standards for a carry gun and to dispel lingering rumors of problems with the design.

The P365 I received saw over 2,000 rounds right out of the box and was never cleaned or even wiped down. I fired just about every brand of ammo and recorded my results below.

SIG SAUER 115gr 365———————————-1075fps, 1.25”
SIG SAUER 365 115gr FMJ—————————–1067fps, .75”
SIG SAUER 365 115gr V-Crown————————1079fps, .75”
SIG SAUER 124gr V-Crown—————————–1140fps, 1”
SIG SAUER 124gr FMJ———————————-1112fps, 1.25”
SIG SAUER 115gr V-Crown—————————–1190fps, 1.25”
SIG SAUER 147gr Elite Competition———————899fps, .75”
Hornady 135gr +P Critical Duty————————1050fps, 1.5”
Hornady 124gr +P Critical Duty————————1130fps, 1.5”
Hornady Custom 147gr XTP—————————–950fps, 2”
Hornady Critical Defense 115gr FTX——————–1123fps, 2”
Buffalo Bore 147gr Outdoorsman———————–1000fps, 2.5”
Buffalo Bore Barnes 95gr +P+ ————————–1349fps, 2”
Buffalo Bore 147gr JHP +P+ —————————-1060fps, 1”
Black Hills 115gr FMJ————————————1075fps, 1”
Black Hills 100gr HoneyBadger +P———————-1175fps, .5”
Black Hills 125gr Subsonic HoneyBadger—————-973fps, 2”
Lehigh Defense 70gr HERO——————————1490fps .5”
Lehigh Defense 90gr Xtreme Defense +P—————1301fps, 1”
Lehigh Defense 105gr Controlled Fracture————-1100fps, .75”
Lehigh Defense 105 Max Expansion——————–1050fps, .75”

Accuracy shown is the average of three, five-shot groups at 15 yards and velocity is the average of 10 rounds fired over an Oehler 35P chronograph five feet from the muzzle.

As far as general performance was concerned, the P365 shot anything and everything I put through it. I had absolutely no failures to feed, to fire, or to eject with any ammo tested. The pistol was very accurate, especially for a compact carry gun, with virtually everything I fired through it.

Black Hills 100gr +P is an amazing load. (Josh Wayner for TTAG)

Of particular note was the accuracy I got from the Black Hills 100gr HoneyBadger. I have tested this load in numerous guns across many months and even did a standalone review here on TTAG. I keep coming back to this load in my article notes as it is just so damn accurate and reliable. I love all the ammo I test, but for whatever reason this load from Black Hills is always the most accurate at every range.

Close in at 15 yards it was matched by Lehigh Defense’s HERO load, but out to 25 yards it quickly outpaces all the others and behaves like a little rifle round. I was easily able to make hit after hit at 50 yards on a 10” plate using the Black Hills load.

Josh Wayner for TTAG

That said, I am always impressed by the ammo innovations from the other companies featured in this article. For general carry, SIG’s 365 load is hard to beat. You can read the review of that here.

Hornady makes some of the best carry ammo out there and their Critical Duty loads inspire plenty of confidence. Look forward to a detailed review of the 135gr +P this summer. Buffalo Bore makes some of the most powerful 9mm available and you can find a review of the 95gr +P+ here.

Josh Wayner for TTAG

The P365 Manual Safety is one of the most compact, reliable, and accurate handguns you can own today. I will be using this pistol across the summer for most of ammo testing. I think that it will serve me and you well as you read the results I get. I don’t recommend this gun lightly, either.

Specifications: SIG SAUER P365 Manual Safety

Caliber: 9x19mm
Barrel Length: 3.1”
Overall Length: 5.8”
Width: 1”
Weight: 17.8oz
Sights: SIG XRAY Night Sights
Magazine: 10 round standard, 12-round magazine and 15-round magazine available
MSRP: $599 (seen about $100 lower retail)

Ratings (Out of Five Stars):

Accuracy * * * * *
This is probably the most accurate compact semi-automatic everyday carry gun I’ve ever used. It shot like a full-size pistol and refused to miss even small targets.

Reliability * * * * *
I put a stupid number of rounds through the P365-MS in only a couple of range trips to ensure it goes bang every time. In 2,000+ rounds it never failed to feed or fire.

Ergonomics * * * * *
This is a well-engineered pistol that feels great in the hand and carries easily on the hip. The manual safety lever feels very positive and is easy to disengage.

Customize This * * * * *
It already comes with XRAY3 night sights. The ability to change out grip modules, change colors, add lasers, swap sights, and go from 10+1 to as many as 15+1 makes this one of the most user-friendly carry guns out there.

Aesthetics * * * * 
The gun is small and efficient. I love the smooth lines and high capacity (for a sub-compact). Many small carry guns are plain, if not downright ugly, but SIG managed to make the P365 fairly pretty and functional.

Overall * * * * *
Just like the article says, this may be the best carry gun on the market right now. There is really nothing out there that even comes close when you blend size, capacity and features. The addition of the safety option makes it darn close to perfect.

comments

  1. avatar B.D. says:

    I’m getting one soon.

    No external safety.

    Much excite.

    1. avatar B.D. says:

      Also do you have a link to the monster energy vape cartridges?

      *Insert trigger finger is my safety meme here.*

      1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

        Safety. No safety. Who cares? Learn your manuel of arms for the weapon you use. All firearms are less complicated than a motor vehicle. Really. What’s the problem?

        1. avatar B.D. says:

          Never said there was one.

        2. avatar Sam says:

          What does Manuel have to do with this? He do nothing!

      2. avatar B.D. says:

        Just remember to carry with an empty chamber.

        I do, it’s safer when you carry glocks. I have two. One for each leg, lol.

        1. avatar B.D. actual says:

          Fuck off troll

        2. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Yeah, and I’ll put on my seatbelt just before the crash.

        3. avatar B.D.. Actual says:

          Gadsden:

          Someone is trolling with my screen name. I would never advise someone to carry without a round in the chamber.

    2. avatar Joel says:

      So in other words the sig PT111 is now even more like the original PT 111 😂

  2. avatar Grumpster says:

    Great to see that SIG came out with the P365 safety model. If I get a P365 I would get the one with the safety. The 15 round magazine makes the grip look longer than a Glock 17 though LOL. The 12 round magazine looks like the real sweet spot for CCW,

  3. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    Any gun that’s essentially a single action fired gun carried in a pocket holster. A safety can be a good thing.
    On a belt or IWB its not needed for me.
    If I owned a 365 Id have no need or want a safety.
    Pocket carry is a whole other thing. If ones careful reholstering there shouldn’t be any issues like snagging a trigger.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Pocket holsters are a thing. I would never carry a gun without something over the bang switch.

      1. avatar adambomb286 says:

        I carry my P365 in a Desantis Nemesis, but the trigger really is so nice that it is making me somewhat paranoid. I wonder if I can add a manual safety?

    2. avatar jwm says:

      I don’t reholster in the pocket. I pull the holster out and then reholster. Put it all back in the pocket.

  4. avatar Sam Wright says:

    I’ve been trying to get one of these. Any idea when they will be available to order from my local FFL?

    1. avatar Jeremy says:

      They can be purchased online so I’d probably ask your shop or order you one. Or buy online and have it sent there

  5. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    OK, with the addition of a manual safety, you’ve convinced me. I’m going to examine this piece as a CCW piece.

    PS – “Tactical polo bros” — I’m stealing that. Just to let you know ahead of time.

    1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

      Why do you prefer a manual safety?

      1. avatar Josh Wayner says:

        DG is probably the smartest and most technically savvy gun guy that graces this site. If he says it, it’s worth a listen. Fools scoff at his advice, my friend.

        1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

          Did I say I was ignoring or responding negatively to his advice? I asked a question. I wanted to hear his side of the isle. But, please, continue with your assumptions, however incorrect they may be.

        2. avatar B.D. says:

          he asked a simple question. Manual safety is a preference.

        3. avatar IdahoBoy says:

          Josh, methinks thou dost protest too much. This was a short and simple question, which in no way merits your response. People who wish to participate in open and honest discussions should refrain from shutting other people down.

          That said, I prefer a manual safety for loading into a pocket holster. But once my weapon is stashed, I deactivate the safety. Best of both worlds.

        4. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          i didn’t see anything in either of his posts that even come close to any type of advice. the safety dealio is not a winnable argument.
          when dg posts, digest the anecdotes slowly.
          preferences are just that, few forms of carry are inherently wrong.

      2. avatar AA says:

        Why does someone preferring a safety trigger you so much? I actually think it’s just because they have a different opinion than you, and that sets off small minded tactitards like you.

      3. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        I tend to carry in a shoulder holster. Every now and again when carrying, I’ll receive a hug from a member of the opposite sex, and if they feel a piece in a shoulder holster, they start playing “is that a gun or are you just happy to see me?” This is Wyoming, not California, and women know full well it’s a gun – they’re trying to sort out what type of gun you’re carrying to impress you…

        A pistol without a long trigger pull or a manual safety makes that sort of thing a bit of a pucker-factor.

        As for the high-speed/low-drag guys who claim that I’m going to forget a manual safety: The very first non-22 handgun I ever shot at the age of 12 was a 1911, and a well-worn 1911 at that. This is because I fell into the dubious company of two Marine veterans who kept their 1911’s from their time in the Pacific Theatre. Marines have this habit of corrupting perfectly innocent new shooters with their ideas of putting big, major-caliber rounds on target, and in the decades before the 1980’s, the semi-auto pistol that most people were exposed to was the 1911.

        As a result of a lifetime of shooting a 1911, when I draw, I’m looking for the manual safety. It’s just part of my muscle memory.

        1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

          That’s understandable. I always like to hear from you DG, contrary to the accusations levied against me by Mr. Wayner. I’ve been following this website for quite a long time and I’ve come to appreciate your postings. Thank you.

        2. avatar Hannibal says:

          You must be very lucky if they think you’re happy to see you based on an object stashed near your shoulder.

  6. avatar pwrserge says:

    “Tactical polo bros” aka people smart enough to keep their booger hook off of the bang switch.

    1. avatar B.D. says:

      Pretty much. But then again, we’ve all seen em. Stand out like sore thumbs.

      1. avatar B.D. says:

        I look for them

        1. avatar B.D. says:

          I’ll bet you do.

  7. avatar Mark says:

    I was a Sig fan once. If they ever fix their shit and make a non-flawed new version of the compact 320, I’d buy at least one. In .357Sig, no less.

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      i feel similarly about the 250. gimme that hammer. maybe. haven’t gone poly, but… p07.

  8. avatar Docduracoat says:

    I bought the Sig 938 before the 365 existed.
    It is an excellent every day carry gun, fits in a pocket, shoots everything, and is reliable
    With Kimber micro 9 mags, it holds 8 rounds.
    The 938 has an excellent trigger as 1911 style guns are known to have good triggers.
    I have shot my buddies 365, now I want a 365 !
    I guess I will have two different guns in a carry rotation.

    1. avatar B.D. says:

      I like the 938 and 238. Now the 365! SIG is on point. They also secured the military, so there is that… I started with Glock, jumped to S&W, and now I have a fanboy attraction for SIG. All great guns, but certain ones doing very well in certain categories. Personally, I don’t see Glock doing anything anymore though.

    2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      I just looked at these options as well. Their triggers are nice, and the buttplate on a magazine makes them long enough to hold comfortably.

      They cost more than the 365 by $100 to $200, depending on if you jump up to the “Legend” series. I think I could massage the lower grade pistol to my preference(s).

      1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        yeah, it was easy for a knucklehead like me to “stone” the contact surfaces in the 938 powerflow chart. simple and obvious. linscheid’s tillamook trigger is a nice addition in stainless, there are aluminum ones as well but since my concern (possibly misplaced) was the hole for the transfer bar enlarging over time i went with steel. and really, the stock nylon one is fine, easy to grind down the shoe ribs if you don’t like ’em.
        nice to know the kimber (and that makes me think maybe some other) mags will function. a poster has said previously that a properly notched p290 mag will allow for 8+1.
        just remember to always depress the ejector when reinstalling the slide.

      2. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        will there ever be a way to purchase the legend trigger separately?

  9. avatar WhiteDevil says:

    Unnecessary. If you have to rely on an external safety to actually be safe, then you should re-examine your safety routine.

    1. avatar Josh Wayner says:

      Congrats whitedevil, your quote is going in an article I’m writing on this exact topic based on a survey I conducted.

      While I’ll save the best for the article, you should know that when asked objectively, roughly 90% of my current broad spectrum survey group wants manual safety devices on a carry gun. The roughly 10% remaining remind me of you. Theory over practice is the name of the game for the lucky 10%, who generally have no idea what anyone outside their own demographic wants or needs.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Given the sales numbers for polymer striker fired handguns without manual external safeties, I find the methodology of your survey highly questionable.

        1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          I was thinking along those lines as well…interesting.

        2. avatar jwm says:

          You don’t get more old school than me. I prefer a revolver for most applications. My most recent pistol purchase was a g19.

          It even has a round in the chamber.

      2. avatar WhiteDevil says:

        Those 90% often are quite ignorant of safety practices and have been led to equate “manual safety” with “actual safety.” If 90% of people believe the world is flat, does that make it so? It would be more appropriate to teach people, no drill in their heads, the rules of gun safety, something which a manual safety doesn’t satisfy. If provides a false sense of security to these people. Instead of your pissy, passive-aggressive response, understand that I understand the wants of these people in the gun world. One guy I know wanted a manual safety on his fucking Glock. I thought that was weird as hell, but I didn’t chide him for it. I knew him to be quite ignorant of firearm terminology, firearms themselves, and the culture surrounding it. Education is key.

        1. avatar Josh Wayner says:

          Thank you both for your obviously educated opinions on this subject.

        2. avatar WhiteDevil says:

          Typical response from someone unable to debate without resorting to emotional misdirection.

        3. avatar Josh Wayner says:

          There is nothing here to debate.

        4. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          ahh, haha. “an argument is a collective series of statements to establish a definite proposition.”

      3. avatar Gary Lankford says:

        I bought the P365 w/o safety and carry it owb or pocket sheath holstered. Initially, I was aprehensive considering it’s light trigger, but after awhile I got used to it not going bang by itself… I would never point it at myself, or anybody else, while holstering it, or holster it blindly, nor put my finger on the trigger without intent to fire it, but with those caveats in mind, I find it safe enough without a manual safety to not trade it for a new model. If mine had come with a safety, I probably would still be carrying it safety on, so I’m sorta glad it didn’t… it’s great that Sig is catering to both schools!

        Now, what I really want is that P365xl grip module available as a part!

      4. avatar B.D. says:

        Lol… ok. Sure. Facebook poll of your closest friends who think exactly like you? Is that your 90%?

        The sales for striker fired with internal safeties vs pretty much all other handguns says otherwise.

        1. avatar FG says:

          No such thing as an “internal” safety. That’s just drop protection, like the silly trigger tab on the Glock. It’s not a safety– pull the trigger and it goes bang.

          But you are right sir! Obviously, I should follow the wisdom of the crowd. So I’m off to buy a Taurus Judge!

          Buy some Bose speakers.

          Smoke some Macanudos.

          Drink some white zinfandel…

        2. avatar B.D. says:

          Wrong.

          http://gunbelts.com/blog/how-does-glock-safety-work/

          If you like following the crowd, then do you. But the reason some things are popular, is because they work. I never said all things were equal in the popularity category, but when it comes to self defense, it’s hard to argue that the trigger pulls itself, or that the ND was not due to negligence, or that someone who did not secure their gun around someone not trained is not to blame. Acting like the gun is to blame is what the gun grabbers love. You are their perfect candidate.

      5. avatar mrvco says:

        I don’t understand the manual safety grousing, especially since Sig let’s you choose. Are these people carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked? Or is this mentality a carry-over from defending the Glock “Safe Action” approach?

    2. avatar AA says:

      Another tactitard triggered. I honestly don’t believe it’s the safety snobs like WhiteDevil don’t like. I think it’s the fact someone has a different opinion than him, and his small James Yeager addled brain can’t handle it. Also know as the YouTube effect.

      1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

        What the hell is a tactitard? I understand some people want a manual safety and that is fine. I hold no umbrage against individuals that do. I just disagree with a manual safety. If you can’t prevent yourself from an ND without a manual safety, then you probably won’t be able to prevent yourself from one with a safety. Most of these people buy a weapon with a manual safety for just that purpose. That is worrisome, to say the least. I have firearms with manual safeties, but I won’t go out of my way to acquire any version of such firearms with a safety. Have never watched James Yeager. Don’t know why I still have a small brain.

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          What makes you think that they can’t prevent an ND without a safety? I rather suspect that they think that it is a risk reducer, perhaps having read the too numerous stories about “Glock leg”, some of which were fatalities. It certainly is no indication that they have ever had a ND with a gun without a manual safety. I have a slew of handguns that do not have manual safeties, including a Kahr, but my first handgun was a Springfield XD because it had a grip safety. I do not own a Glock, nor do I see ever spending the money on one. I see them as an accident waiting to happen, and being risk averse, I avoid them. Plus I never liked the grip angle.

        2. avatar WhiteDevil says:

          I didn’t state that they couldn’t prevent an ND if the weapon didn’t have a manual safety. I stated the reasons for their acquiring such a modification on a firearm. That they have one precisely for the reason that you seem to have unintentionally relayed. That they are “an accident waiting to happen.” Why? Because of a safety? A mechanical object that is prone to failure and won’t address nor rectify the safety issues of the firearm owner to begin with. This is the mindset behind the wanting of a manual safety that I am addressing, not the statistics of ND’s occurring with a safety versus those without. Once again, though, if you want a safety, get a safety. I just don’t want one, though I can see why some would be more comfortable with one. This debate is almost in direct parallel to the individuals that don’t want to carry a weapon with a round chambered because they are not comfortable doing so. They, over time, come to be much more comfortable with a round chambered and hopefully that comfort will be extended to people who carry firearms without manual safeties, even though they wish the weapon had such accruements.

        3. avatar WhiteDevil says:

          Plus, I love Glocks. I am always finding myself coming back to Glocks. They have the best attributes of any polymer framed pistol I can think of. Slimmest profile, higher magazine capacity, extremely small bore axis and overall ingenious simplicity when compared to guns of approximate size. I tried Springfield’s, CZ’s, S&W’s and only the Glocks remain. But, the world of firearms is a personal one and some people would prefer the aforementioned brands. I don’t. I love Glocks and I suppose I am a Glocktard as the lovely individual below accused me. They just work. Every. Single. Time.

        4. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          you like glooks. ’nuff said. but i’m fairly certain that all barrels for a given cartridge share the same “bore axis.” if you want a smaller bore axis get a cz52.

      2. avatar B.D. says:

        That sounds like something someone with a different opinion that refuses to acknowledge others opinions would say.

  10. avatar Moltar says:

    Let me know how you feel when the striker breaks… Oh and the SCCY CPX2 has the same capacity and about the same size oh also it costs way less lil worse trigger though I’ll concede that.

    1. avatar LazrBeam says:

      The SCCY CPX2 is hammer fired. Can see that hammer coming back before the break. It’s my car gun. Reliable (lots of rounds down range and zero malfunctions) and comparatively inexpensive. I’ve got the requisite Colts, S&W’s, Rugers, Remingtons, and others but I must confess a certain, shall we say, affinity for the SCCY CPX2.

  11. avatar Charles Parker says:

    7lb trigger pull ??? Holy crap that s high. My Glock 43 is only 4lb.

    1. avatar AA says:

      Two things. 1. It’s not 7 pounds. 2. No Glock without a trigger job is pulling that light. I just tried every glock in the case, and none pulled lower than 5 pounds. Try again.

  12. avatar Vdub says:

    Bought one at Scheels last December, without the safety, love the thing. But, as I am a noob at CCW, was a little uncomfortable. Went back to Scheels, traded it for one with a safety and now carry every where with one in the pipe. Buying one for my daughter now.

  13. avatar “ shiggs “ says:

    Didn’t like the one I bought. My main gripe was the grip is too small. My trigger finger touches my support hand palm during firing. The barrel hood wear was excessive after only ~200 rounds. Given the QC reputation of SIG I traded it off. Other than that the gun shot great.

    1. avatar AA says:

      So you bought it without picking it up and seeing how it felt in your hands? Who blindly buys without doing any research? Oh wait I know. You’ve probably never held, much less owned a P365. You’re probably just another troll with an axe to grind. Most likely a Glocktard that hates anything that doesn’t have Glock on it.

      1. avatar B.D. says:

        Dude. Chill the fuck out.

        1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

          Holy hell. The guy really likes manual safeties. Must have shot himself in the nut with a gun that didn’t have one.

  14. avatar AA says:

    Uh oh. A safety. That’s going to trigger the tactitards. Anything they don’t like sends them into roid rage.

    1. avatar Tactitard says:

      speak for yourself.

  15. avatar Dan W. says:

    If the gun lives in a holster I don’t see the need for a manual safety.

    That being said my night stand gun has one. It does not live in a holster it lives in a box that doesn’t allow a firing grip upon removal. In this case I like to have a safety since I will be grabbing for it in the dark with the trigger exposed.

  16. avatar Eddy Jolley says:

    Bravo SIG for making the 365 available with a safety. Great article Josh and Thank you for calling out the Tactical Polo Bros!! (You know, “I’m so Tacticool – I don’t need a damn safety … “.) I am so sick of seeing their drone posts on the various forums. Inevitably, they will have something like 12,000 posts. In reality, many of them are prolly fat pimply Cheeto-infested wannabes living in their Mom’s basement. Who else would have time for so many Forum posts. Great article!!

    1. avatar Jedi Wombat says:

      I wear 5.11 polos because they’re comfortable and durable. I have Glocks, CZs, Smiths, Rugers in both semi and revolver types. 1 or 2 have safeties, so what? Why do we insist on eating our own? I also have an awesome Van Dyke and wear Larue Tactical, BCM and Spikes hats. I also own some of their stuff that goes bang, not just the hats, but it makes me sad that people of the gun turn on each other like this.

      Want a safety? Buy a gun with one. Don’t want one? Don’t. Choice is good. Enjoy the times we live in where there is so much choice. But shitting on each other because of some small differences is stupid. Its not like were talking 9 vs 45 or Glock vs 1911. Get a grip people.

  17. avatar Joe Matafome says:

    I held two of the MA versions today (manual safety required in MA) and the safety felt like a cheap piece of plastic. I own two 365’s and they’re both great. I would never own one with this crappy safety. I know plenty of people who will only carry with a safety (most likely because the don’t have any confidence in the carry skills) and each person has to do what’s best for them. I even know a few who carry with a safety and an empty chamber. If you’re that scared to carry with one in the pipe, you shouldn’t carry concealed. This safety is a terrible addition to a gun carry gun.

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      is that like a truck boat truck?

  18. avatar Hannibal says:

    I’m looking to get one without the safety (trigger isn’t that light) but won’t cast aspersions about someone wanting it. I hope those people aren’t using the safety as an excuse not to carry in a good holster, however.

    We can all be one family united against those who think it’s a good idea to carry unchambered.

  19. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    I’m not understanding all the name calling going on or “calling out”

    Pretty sure all my rifles have a manual safety, and my 1911s do too, but my revolvers don’t.

    That being said, why is someone not preferring a pistol with a manual safety make them Evil Incarnate?

    btw, I CCW a Glock 19 every day!! Because Glocks are the best!! Anything else is just sissified and you dress funny!!

    Last part is pure Trollish Speak..see I can do it too!

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      Because we live in an era when, if you don’t agree with me on every minute part of my dogmatic opinion, you’re “literally Hitler.”

      There are days I think, if I could wind the clock back to 1990, before we commercialized the Internet, I’d give back the stock option money and say ‘do it.’

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      Some of it is tongue and cheek but I think a few people actually get upset when they write or agree with ridiculous articles and people call them out on it because somehow relativism has made it’s way here and everything is equally right (it’s not).

      That said, it’s just another caliber war where everyone argues over molehills.

  20. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    OK, I just got back from the LGS and looking at the 365 with a manual safety. For grins, I also looked at a Bersa Thunder. I’m shopping for a smaller/lighter CCW piece for summer carry. 1911’s work well when I’m in more clothes, but concealing a Commander-sized 1911 in summer is tough.

    Here’s my quick LGS gun-counter thoughts:

    – A nicer-than-usual trigger for a striker gun; short reset. Funky “boinnnng” sound when the striker drops.
    – The slide release is tough to manipulate – you have to pull the slide to the rear to relieve the pressure on what feels like a burr or detent on the slide release. I found it impossible to just “thumb it down” and get the slide to go into battery.
    – The safety is where it should be, and it works OK. It feels like it blocks the trigger stroke.

    The gun is uncomfortably short in the grip with the default 10 round magazine. With the 12-round magazine, it’s quite nice in the hand.

    That it comes with tritium sights from the factory is a nice feature – worth at least $100, even to me, who could mount my own sights and buy them at FFL prices.

    The Bersa Thunder weighs (by my estimation) at least 4 to 6 ounces more than the 365 does empty.

    I saw some other options at the gun counter that have me going ‘hmmmm’ but the 365 is in the running for a summer CCW piece, but I’m going to guess that I’ll need to do some work on it to make it function the way I want.

    Whilst I was there, I also checked out some revolvers, including the K6. The lockup on the K6 isn’t as tight as a new Smith, and certainly not as tight as the Colt Cobra. I wonder why a company making a wholly new revolver design would rotate the cylinder out of the window when Colt’s patents are long, long, long since gone. The K6’s trigger was very nice for a DA trigger pull – it has no need of an action job.

    1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

      I’m looking to get a nice revolver. Something in 357 and under 4” barrel. Any recommendations? Ive heard some good, and bad, things regarding the Smiths. Is there any way to tighten up the cylinders on those Kimbers? I really liked those when I held them.

      1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        How much are you looking to spend, and what will you use it for? Are you willing to look at used guns?

        4 Inches is a good barrel length for a .357 – it’s long enough that you really see the difference between the .357 and .38 Special (even +P). I will say, however, that your options in this size start narrowing down considerably…

        1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

          I’d say the upper limit for my budget is probably 1200. That’s what I spent on the last revolver. A .500 Smith. Stupid buy. Sold it less than a month after I bought it. I suppose I can remove the barrel length restriction if it puts too much of a constraint on the available choices. I’m looking to carry it and target shoot with it. Target shoot, primarily.

        2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          The really big revolvers (like the 500 and some of John Linebaugh’s guns) are really purpose-built, and if you don’t live in an area where you need to pack a piece to go hiking in bear country, or you’re not a handgun hunter, they’re a bit of a solution in search of a problem.

          For a .357 with a 4″ or under barrel, you have a couple of choices in the Smith & Wesson line: The 686 in 3″ or 4″ barrel lengths, or the Model 19/66 in about a 4 or 4.25″ barrel length.

          In a Colt, the new “King Cobra” announced with a 3″ barrel. Haven’t handled one yet. I like the new Colt Cobra’s lock-up and trigger. The action on the Cobras I’ve handled were pretty nicely smoothed for a factory gun.

          Ruger has several models of .357 in 3″ barrels, some are “distributor exclusives.” I’ve always been a fan of Ruger’s single actions; their DA’s always felt a tad “chunky” to me. They’re well made guns, they’re just hefty for the size.

          If asked to choose between those options within your budget, I’d be looking for a S&W Model 19-4, 19-5 or 19-6 with a 4″ or shorter barrel, or a S&W 66-3 or -4 or 686 if you’d prefer stainless.

        3. avatar WhiteDevil says:

          I appreciate the detailed reply. I’ll be sure to take a look. I really do like the Colts. Hell, i like the S&W’s also. I got some thinking to do. Thanks again.

      2. avatar Mark H says:

        For a nice Revolver (4″ .357″ ) I don’t think there is a better deal out there than a nice used Dan Wesson model 15-2 or 715

    2. avatar IdahoBoy says:

      I carry a Bersa Thunder. Not because it has the best trigger (it doesn’t). Not because it’s high accepts hig capacity magazines (mine doesn’t). Not because it’s lighter and thinner than other offerings. (It’s neither). Not because I like .380 ACP (it’s barely adequate).

      I carry it because:

      1. It’s been a faithful companion for many many years, and I’m sentimental about things like that.
      2, My investment in Crimson Trace laser grips makes it viable for low light situations.
      3. It is ridiculously easy to remove the magazine disconnect without compromising reliability, which I did long ago.

  21. avatar Moltar says:

    Y’all seriously need to tap Dyspeptic Gunsmith for a full time technical writer. It’s a shame you haven’t already.

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      Dan has tried – many times. I’m afraid I’m really too busy to write for-real articles to my standards for TTAG. I just have too many irons in the fire.

      Writing well takes time. As people here at TTAG can see, when I’m short of time, my comments can get far, far, faaaar too long. Writing well and concisely takes me serious time, especially for a guy who likes to use obscure, vocabulary-building words. I love teaching people about guns, and I love to take diversions into the history of guns, ammo, military engagements, you name it. The history of mankind can be viewed through many prisms – through religion, through medical knowledge, through technology, through commerce, money, knowledge – and through the development of metals, steel, weapons and guns especially. As a result, I tend to go off on more tangents than circle has into nooks and crannies. Lots of readers are pressed for time, and they want an author to get to the point, quite understandably.

      I actually had to take an English writing class recently, and the teacher would hold me to length limits, with hard penalties if I ran over (eg “I’m going to dock you 10 points for every page over the submission limit.”) I could have a paper done, the topic fully addressed, with MLA references and a reference page with more than the minimum number of sources, in a few hours. I’d have the MLA sources page perfect, the MLA references perfectly done, you name it. The things that would cost everyone else in the class points, I had done perfectly in a very short amount of time.

      But the paper would be at least three pages too long – meaning that I was looking at a grade no better than 70% if I turned that in.

      Getting it from nine pages down to only six? That would take me literally a whole week of effort.

      Writing concisely takes me quite a bit of time.

      1. avatar Josh Wayner says:

        I’ll edit you. Don’t worry about format. I have 12 publishers and work with dozens and dozens of manufacturers. Nobody gives two shits about MLA. Its all about meeting people in person and making relationships. Content quality comes secondary to reputation. You will get flak if you’re a bad writer or Hemingway. My critics like to think they irk me, but I don’t even think about them.

        1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          You mentioned Hemingway. For younger folks, Hemingway was a noted writer of the mid-20th century, a very masculine writer. Might want to look him up – he wrote in very terse, simple sentences.

          Fun bit of trivia: I’ve taken a leak in the exact toilet that Hemingway used when he vacationed in the Big Horn Mountains of Wyoming. So I’ve got that going for me.

        2. avatar Josh Wayner says:

          Read Jim Harrison if you like Hemingway. Most famously known for Legends of the Fall. He wrote many other good works that hold with the times, many of which are considered modern in their verse and setting. You’d like him with the exception that he writes a fair amount of what I consider vulgarity across many a prose.

  22. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    Recommendation for a future review….The AR 500

    https://www.bighornarmory.com/product/ar500-500-auto-max/

    No, I’m probably never going to buy one, but I certainly like the daydream..

  23. avatar Mark H says:

    I prefer a decent trigger and manual safety. I’ll compromise on no safety on really tiny guns like my P-3AT simply because it’s so small and light.

    My wife on the other hand, absolutely refuses to carry a handgun without a manual safety. When I told her that the trigger dingus on a Glock was the safety her response was “a safety on the trigger is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of”.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      She’s right… if you go around with your finger on the trigger.

  24. avatar Grumpy Old Guy says:

    Personally, I don’t USE the manual safety on a holstered handgun. I would if I carried appendix or off body though. Generally, safety levers are inanimate, just like a trigger they don’t set themselves on. They don’t break often either. You can use them or not. The problem IMO is if you are inconsistent and sometimes use them. I If you decide a safety is for you, all you carry guns should have them and be used all the time so you don’t need to think about it. Thus the ability to have a certain model with a manual safety is a nice feature, just not one I personally need.

  25. avatar GS650G says:

    Manual safety on a carry gun is fine as long as you practice releasing it. Questioning a person’s abilities, skills, decisions etc because they want the option of blocking the gun from firing is presumptive at best.

  26. avatar Mad Max says:

    I don’t like striker fired pistols. They don’t restrike without racking the slide.

    The only malfunctions I ever had with my P225, P226, or P290 was from primers seated too deeply in a particular brand of factory ammo (I don’t buy that brand anymore). In all cases, the round went bang on the 2nd strike.

    I’ve mastered the DA/SA pistol and can operate it (rack, decock, clear malfunctions, reload, etc.) with either strong hand or weak hand disabled.

    I also usually get the first (DA) shot in the bullseye at 10 yards (with not so good vision).

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      i believe some do. aren’t there actions that fully cock and release the striker from trigger travel alone?

    2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      “I don’t like striker fired pistols. They don’t restrike without racking the slide.”

      Not true with all striker fired guns. I have a striker fired Walther P99 that does indeed have second strike capability. The Country of Turkey also makes a near copy of the P99 as well and did import it for awhile and maybe still does, I have not checked on this recently.

      Most gun training courses teach people never to pull the trigger twice if you get a misfire because in most instances (and in my case all instances) if you do get a misfire chances are great you will not get the gun to fire with repeated hammer strikes. Students are taught to rack the slide and get rid of the defective round. Screwing around repeatedly pulling the trigger will often get on killed in a gun fight.

      That said, its still needless to say with hammer fired guns you get way less misfires because the hammer energy is much heavier than the light blows you get with most striker fired guns even those that were designed to be at full cock unlike the Glock that is only partially cocked which makes misfires even more likely under severe conditions of extreme cold, over lube, or dirt build up in the striker channel which is wide open unlike most hammer fired guns. My own tests down through the years verified this often stated information by other people.

  27. avatar Sua Sponte says:

    I have two takes on this:

    1) You like to have a safety on your handgun? Awesome.

    2) You don’t like to have a safety on your handgun? Awesome.

    Personal preference is exactly that. Be it manufacturer, magazine capacity, color, caliber, safety/no safety, carry style, accessories, etc.. What I will say though is that no matter what you carry, how you carry it or who made it, I implore you to go to the range as often as possible, train with both practice/carry ammunition and be the most proficient you possibly can.

    Have a glorious 4th and God Bless the USA.

  28. avatar kap says:

    looks like a patent infringement with Hi Point, or an up graded POS model 250!
    The fellow that doesn’t use a manual safety on their carry gun, really trusts that
    model 1911A1, There is an American 9 that is prettier and holds less rounds
    called the S&W Model 26

  29. avatar =BCE56= says:

    There has been some discussion as to how JMB intended the 1911 to be carried.
    I defer to Col. Cooper and am comfortable carrying in cond 1.
    With a round chambered, a pistol equipped only with a trigger safety seems barely safer than a cocked revolver.
    For defensive carry, DAO or DA/SA handguns might represent the best balance of safety, speed and simplicity.

  30. avatar Kim Dorsey says:

    I am an older (and chubby) woman, who frequently carries ‘deep cover’. I prefer a manual safety in an edc, – just my preference. I’m not interested in any criticism or safety instructions, so thanks anyway.
    What I am wondering about is this: “The ability to change out grip modules, change colors…”
    Josh Wayner, this is news to me. Would you explain how that could be accomplished?
    Nice article, thanks.

  31. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    l””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””While it may not seem like a huge upgrade, the manual thumb safety makes the P365 one of the safest everyday carry guns on the market today””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    Wrong, it is not one of the safest pistols to carry. Although I do praise Sig for adding a manual safety (The military for once did something that made sense and made them put it on the P320 pistol). The military knew that if the p320 would have had no manual safety they would have been dealing with accidents every day or even hourly.

    The reason the P365 is not the safest is that if the safety is accidentally brushed off and since the gun has no visible hammer and is a single action pull it can accidentally snag and fire off the gun. A double/single action pistol with a visible hammer and a manual safety is the more safe gun to carry. That is indisputable.

    There is no decocker on the P365 Sig and since its striker fired no visible hammer.

    On Sigs own web site people complained of failures to feed and failures to fire and failures to eject even with fmj sig brand hard ball ammo What is strange is that the sig 365 is 100 per cent cocked internally which gives the striker much more force than the partially cocked Glock does yet people still had failures to fire.

    Like any new model hand gun you must wait at least 2 years and after dozens of recalls on a newly designed pistol before the bugs are worked out of the design because gun companies in their blind greed figure its cheaper to let the public test the new gun and find out about the design problems rather than the manufacturer taking the time to test it and do it right before they dump their latest and greatest plasticky wonder turd on the buying public.

    Me, I carry when I need a small 9mm the H&K P30sk which has a visible hammer, a decocker, a loaded chamber indicator, a captured slide release lever so you cannot lose it, and of course a passive safety and also a manual safety which can be left in the on position when loading or unloading the gun. You cannot get much safer than this pistol. I might add the P30L and P30s make great larger size pistols to use as a self defense weapon. And they all are reliable something you cannot say for the Sig p365. Yes the H&K pistols are more expensive but the old adage “you get what you pay for” certainly applies here.

  32. avatar Bill Meyer says:

    For pocket carry, the Recluse Holster is a very effective solution to a no manual safety fear. The Recluse has a hard foam insert that immobilizes the trigger until you draw. I really enjoy them.

  33. avatar Ranger71 says:

    I read somewhere that Sig will be offering a manual safety kit so that owners will be able to update models without one. I imagine that means a trip back to the motheship. No confirmed date yet.

  34. avatar Cory C. says:

    I carry a P365 every day, but I won’t appendix carry it. I’ve got kids, a little chub in the midsection, tucked-in-shirts, and who knows what else that could find its way into the trigger guard and blow off my gear. For this reason, I would consider a P365 with a thumb safety.

  35. avatar Paelorian says:

    Decocker-only DA/SA is better than a manual safety. It’s harder to shoot that first DA shot accurately, but the gun always goes bang if it’s loaded and you pull the trigger. If you’ve got a long-range shot to make, you can pull back the hammer for SA. Most handgun self-defense scenarios happen at ranges where the heavier initial DA trigger pull is no detriment, but pulling a trigger with the manual safety activated can get you killed.

    It’s a shame that decocker-only DA/SA (and striker-fired systems with similar operation like the Walther P99 AS) are no longer popular on new self-defense pistols, when there remains obvious demand for more safety than the typical Glock-style trigger, as evidenced by the continued popularity of self-defense pistols manual safeties and DAO revolvers. I’m uncomfortable carrying light striker-fired triggers without manual safeties, but also manual safeties. I’d be more comfortable with more practice, but most comfortable using my practice time mastering the DA/SA trigger with a decocker-only pistol. You start with a loaded pistol that always goes bang when you pull the trigger, and practice makes you more accurate, not more reliable when it comes to deactivating the safety. With no manual safety, that’s never a concern.

    A (reliable) decocker-only DA/SA Sig P365 is my subcompact pistol dream gun. I’d probably prefer carrying it to the compact CZs and Berettas that are considered the best DA/SA carry guns, all of which are larger, heavier, and thicker than the P365. They’re outstanding shooters but the P365 is itself an excellent shooter for a gun of its size.

    I’d rather carry the striker-fired P365 with a manual safety than without, but if it was a decocker-only DA/SA then you could unite the cautious worriers and the tactical crowd by being both safe and always ready to shoot when a round is chambered. I’m sympathetic to the views of both camps, so I prefer the DA/SA, which satisfied the requirements of both. The trigger is harder to learn since it has two different pulls and one is heavier, but that’s not a big deal to me. We should be practicing regularly with our carry guns no matter which guns we choose.

    1. avatar Joe Matafome says:

      Why do you want your first shot to be more difficult and less accurate ? The first shot is the most important.

  36. avatar JOE MATAFOME says:

    I own and carry two 365’s ( two hands two guns) and i love them both. I believe the back up gun should be the same as the primary. Why carry two different guns ? I tried the new version with the manual safety and hated it. I think it serves a purpose for people who like safeties (some of my friends who are very skilled love manual safeties) and those who lack the skill or confidence (or both) and will only carry with a manual safety. Some of them should also carry with an empty chamber because loaded firearms are dangerous.

  37. avatar CG59 says:

    Trading in my Kimber Solo Carry next week. Love the external safety.

  38. avatar Markus says:

    Absolutely everyone trying to shame safety guys on here are what’s wrong with the world.

    I don’t own a pistol with a manual safety, so I’m not being defensive when I speak the only logic that counts:

    If you think wanting a little more safety in the world is an offense worthy of your scorn… you fucking suck.

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