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A great shooting area on national forest land that I used to use regularly was closed down a couple years ago because of this. People were shooting and leaving so much trash out there that refrigerant, oil, coolant, and other toxins were getting into a creek near the range and ending up in a nearby lake. Don’t suck. Pack it in, pack it out, etc etc.


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  1. It happens everywhere………and as with any other group, you can’t fix stupid! Of course u tube doesn’t help!!

    • Maybe we could ban YouTube, or at least require training & a license.
      You know no amendment is absolute.

      • Our founders never imagined YouTube would exist. So naturally, it should be highly restricted. Maybe only allow the government to use it because they’re trustworthy.

  2. RIP unmanaged state WMA shooting ranges. We’ve ushered in the era of a legion of Fudd RSOs enforcing every fuddy range rule imaginable. I think I would rather have toxic chemicals leaching into the water than Father Time and his .45 Hi-point in a cross draw near upside-down Uncle Mike’s holster telling me I can’t shoot more than one round every 5 seconds or draw from concealed and fire. Yeah, I’m here for a good time, not a long time. I’ll take an order of carcinogens to go, please. PS: I honestly do hate people who make their trash other people’s problem, but still. Damn.

    • We have Fudd ranges too. I haven’t been to one in nearly 20 years. Single-shot loading ONLY. Can’t use a magazine even with a bolt-action. The most stupid rule I ever heard of.

      Why I like my service range. And we have rules on the types of targets allowed.

      • Good Morning,

        A family member lives outside of Seattle, Washington. The vast majority of ranges in western Washington to not allow any targets that simulate or portray a human silhouette…they get particularly excited if the target is a photo realistic bad guy / gal target (Action Targets in Utah has a large array of realistic life-size paper targets covering many scenarios). Fortunately, the ranges in Montana are good with realistic training targets. My private range allows drawing from the holster and multiple rapid shots.

        A buddy just picked up a SMLE Mk. 5 Jungle Carbine in great shape. That, and the Nagant, are possibly the two most unpleasant service rifles to shoot that I’ve experienced!

        • Old Guy,

          Not a major fan of the SMLE, and I absolutely HATE the infamous “garbage rod” Mosin Nagant, but both are valid collector pieces. Would I want to be armed with either one? No, no I wouldn’t. But I “get” why collectors would want a good example of both.

        • @LampOfDiogenes

          Perhaps, you misunderstood my comment. I own a Nagant and would like a V.G. condition SMLE Jungle Carbine. Wanting them and owning them does not change the fact that shooting either makes my right shoulder, sinus cavities and teeth ache where other Service issued bolt action rifles do not.

    • No trash or RSO gestapo on my range. Of course, I worked hard and bought enough land to build a 150 meter range on my property.

      Not bragging, just stating that there are options.

    • “Yeah, I’m here for a good time, not a long time. I’ll take an order of carcinogens to go, please“

      Your grandkids will certainly appreciate your efforts to present them with the Earth in as good a shape as you received it.

      • Miner49, if you have any kids or grandkids that live, tell them about the time you were a paid troll thst was a member of the modern day Nazi party and helped usher in a tyranny and they took everyone’s guns .. and thats the reason you could not protect them when the government or criminals came for them.

      • Stupid Statement, as the vast majority of Gun Owners and Hunter’s are more ECO FRIENDLY’S than the Tree Hugging Bunny F**kers.
        Yes, there’s always going to be Arseholes who don’t self police, but after spending all of my 63 years and being taught to leave it better than I found it, I’ll pick up the mess the Arseholes leave behind.

      • Well, that’s kinda good, MajorLiar, since we are OBJECTIVELY, from an environmental standpoint, giving them a BETTER world than I had, so take your Marxist/Leftist/fascist propaganda, and pack it firmly where the sun don’t shine. We already know YOU are stupid and uneducated, but you err badly by assuming any of us are.

        I am coming to the conclusion that a reliable “quick and dirty” evaluation tool for quickly considering a new claim is “does MajorLiar support it? Then I’ll assume the opposite to be true, until proven otherwise.” So far, you’re batting 0.0000% on that. I would say ‘try to up your game’, but you aren’t capable. So, how about you just STFU, instead, pantload?

    • hey nathan how about just condemning asshats who pollute the rivers and leave garbage in the national forest? defending bad behavior is not necessary.

  3. It’s always too much trouble to find and punish the guilty. It’s much easier to just punish EVERYONE. Why does this sound so familiar? Oh yea, like every gun control idea EVER .

    • And warrantless suspicionless search and mass surveillance law (violating 4A), and online censorship (violating 1A), etc. They target everyone, and maybe clear things up later.

  4. A lack of respect. Sounds like the property that is being trashed along the border by illegal aliens.

  5. I watched some guys dump a couch in a wash that was a regular shuteing spot and proceed to blow it full of lead. Musta contracted some disease while using that unfortunate piece of furniture. And of course they left it. Good times.

  6. Now Dementia Joe’s handlers want to shut down hunting on all federal lands by limiting the types of firear4ms that can be used. To only single shot firearms.

    • If the want ideas, they can talk to SSAA Silverdale range. They are the Fudds’ Fudds out there.

  7. And our landfills will be full of chinesium junk.
    Dont worry Jeremy, I always cut my refrigerators in half, just dont feel right about blowing up a whole ass one.
    Once upon a time a long time ago there was a car in the Cottonwood river, that car looked like swiss cheese, the skill was hitting a spot that didnt have a bullet hole in it.
    Sadly some government entity put a fence up where nobody could shute there anymore.
    We are losing the freedoms we used to have on account of all the goodie two shoe’s.
    I’ve seen 50 people lined up on that river bank, barbeques going, coolers of beverages, everyone having a good time and along comes .giv and takes it all away.
    In 40 years America has really embraced the suck.
    Gimme back my bullets.

      • I don’t know that I would want to even dip my toe into Cottonwood River, quite frankly the big cattle business has pumped the river full of shit.

        “Over the past decade. introduction of wastes derived from feedlot operations into surface waters has become a serious problem. not only in Kansas but throughout many central and southwestern states. The problem has developed due to increases in both concentration of livestock in feedlots and number of feedlots, especially those located along streams.
        Up to 60,000 head of cattle may be concentrated in eight
        feedlots along the Cottonwood River between Emporia and Strong City, Kansas, a distance of approximately 43 km. The density per hectare
        may approximate 100 head (Grey. 1970). Miner et al. (1966) demonstrated that organic matter in runoff from a 2.54 cm rain on a 0.4 ha un­ surfaced lot containing ten steers was equal to the untreated
        sewage of approximately 250 people. On this basis. animal wastes produced at the feedlots between Emporia and Strong City would
        equal the untreated sewage of approximately 1.5 million people.“

    • “We are losing the freedoms we used to have on account of all the goodie two shoe’s”

      Yes, I said folks just can’t dump old cars in the river and let the water leach out the toxic chemicals and heavy metals as we enjoy our fun blasting away.

      I mean really, who cares about the lead contamination into the water ways, it’s not like people and animals drink water so what do we care, right?

      We are losing our freedom to pollute other peoples water, air and land… Damn liberals!

      • So according to you we should quit raising cattle and let the people starve(good idea) and then according to you the water is so fcked up anyway another car in the creek wont matter.

        • Oh no I see, the feedlots should start treating cow shit like they do human shit(human shit is worse) and then the feedlots gotta raise the price of beef to cover the cost and then the lower middle class cant afford to buy hamburger no more.
          Sic em Minor, regulate this country until only the rich can survive.

      • Yes, feedlots are a major problem.
        Cows should not be in a feedlot, and they should have a natural pasture diet.
        Feedlots encourage the growth of disease, forcing the meat farm operators to pump antibiotics into the feed routinely. This is why we are developing super bugs that are becoming resistant to our antibiotics.

        Cattle should not be fed with processed grains or ground up cows, this is one of the major reasons for the proliferation of bovine spongiform encephalopathy.

        Cows are not carnivorous, they should never be fed ruminant or nonruminant mammalian protein.

        Tell me, have you noticed it seems that more and more folks are seeming to develop Alzheimer’s disease, and at a younger age?
        Reckon why that is…

        “Thinking the unthinkable: Alzheimer’s, Creutzfeldt-Jakob and Mad Cow disease: the age-related reemergence of virulent, foodborne, bovine tuberculosis or losing your mind for the sake of a shake or burger
        Lawrence Broxmeyer. Med Hypotheses. 2005.“

        “I love the poorly educated”

        • In pretty sure they’ve quit grinding up cow bones for cattle feed. Range fed cattle are the way to go no doubt however your just not going to have the pounds to meet demand. The feedlot north of me irrigates their hay pasture with water and cowshit mix. 500 yards from the river, by the time it sifts through all the dirt its probably just fine.

        • “500 yards from the river, by the time it sifts through all the dirt its probably just fine“

          Okey-dokey then.

        • You are as full of shit as the rivers. So either you are an idiot or the rivers are clean. Pick 1.

        • The Cottonwood river data is old, the actual numbers are probably much higher with the increased development.

          A Thesis /. Submitted to
          the Department of Biology
          Kansas State Teachers College, Emporia, Kansas“
          (link above)

          Here’s a little more about the connection between beef and Alzheimer’s:

          “Variant CJD (vCJD) is a related disorder. It tends to occur in younger individuals than CJD. It has been linked to consumption of beef or other products from cattle infected with bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or “mad cow disease.”
          No current treatment is available for CJD.“

        • MajorLiar,

          Perhaps you should actually learn some real science, instead of making idiot statements from your Leftist/fascist talking points. Someone who actually knows something might conclude (properly) an illiterate, indoctrinated moron. No idea how they could get that idea, but . . . accept the possibility (likelihood?).

      • MajorLiar,

        Ever heard of the Cuyahoga River fire, you pathetic @$$clown????? Hmm, what year was that??? Oh, yeah, it was 1972. FIFTY freakin’ years ago, you indoctrinated moron. You MIGHT know, if you weren’t a pathetic, indoctrinated, Leftist/fascist “useful idiot”, that they now have boat and canoe trips on the Cuyahoga River.

        The air in LA is OBJECTIVELY better than it was in the 50s and 60s. You can find “sunset pictures” from the 50s through 70s, taken from places like Riverside, CA, that clearly show the sun SETTING behind smog, when it is above the horizon. The biggest danger to the environment, today, is idiot Leftist/fascists, who don’t have the REMOTEST clue how the ecology actually works, f**king up valid wildlife and forest management practices.

        But MajorLiar is a stupid, incompetent propagandist for a failed ideology. And in other news, the sun rises in the east, water is wet, and dacian the demented is a babbling, drooling moron. You, OTOH, are just a lying liar who lies.

  8. This is one of my personal pet peeves and it happens all the damn time at my nearest NFS range area. I tell people, all the time, that if they don’t clean up their giant mess that the authorities are going to shut that range down. Some of us, who use the range regularly, have started to do extra clean up but, we cannot keep up with the televisions, printers and appliances that a handful of jackasses shoot up and leave strewn about. Not to mention, shotgun shells. Just last weekend me and a shooting buddy went out and busted a couple hundred clays. We came back with two clay boxes and one shotgun shell case worth of spent shells – dramatically more than we shot (We didn’t shoot the whole case, it was a partial when we go there). It is not that hard to shoot a box and then count to at least 25 while you pick up empties. Even if you only pick up 26, at least you left the place better than you found it.

    I am completely in favor of public lands being available for shooting but, I would like to take a belt to some people’s children. I kinda doubt that the average trash dump shooter type is reading this but, if you are: Pick up your shlt! If you don’t, someone else has to or we are all gonna get kicked out of the joint. Act like an adult!

    • MyName,

      My dad and my uncle both taught me, “pack out more than you pack in”. We regularly carried several plastic trash bags when we hiked/fished/hunted, and picked up trash along the way, to put into a dumpster when we got back to the trailhead. All our Leftist/fascist “ecologists” are all about “make everyone else clean up, at government expense”, and personally doing f**k all themselves. Lazy, lying virtue signalers, all of them.

  9. I quit going to the free public (DNR) range because I didn’t care much for being muzzled by drunks.

    • Oh that’s half the fun. Being muzzled by drunks develops your situational awareness.
      And besides I always figure if I get in a scrape I’m going to be drunk, so best to practice that.
      “I’ve two gunms, one for each of you.”

  10. “Don’t (just) suck. Pack it in, pack it out…”
    That’s what I’ve told her for years, but she won’t hear it.

  11. Many years ago had this really nice area, state land, natural hill backstop, trees all around so always shaded in the hot summer months, good water run off so it didn’t turn into a swampy mess when it rained, sort of mostly this peaceful shaded meadow like area at the base of a big hill. A natural area about 200 yards long and wide irregular square’ish patch of firing range fun. The few of us that used it maintained it well and didn’t leave any messes – even made sure that brass was picked up and not left behind.

    At the time there was state law that one could only shoot outdoors on approved state ranges or on private land that was 10 acres or more or on state land that was zoned agricultural as long as it was at least 10 acres away from any residence or business. But in an opinion from the state on an interpretation of the law there was this thing about smaller state land areas could be used if there was sufficient ‘natural feature’ to prevent a bullet from going near any residence or business or ‘public gathering venue’ less than 10 acres away. Up against the state land we were using butted city property and there were a few homes several hundred yards back behind the hill across the city line, but the hill was the sufficient natural feature.

    That state opinion arose from a lawsuit many years prior where a person had several but less than 10 acres of land and wanted to have their own firing range and had this natural hill just at the edge of his property but the hill was on state land and he started using it as a firing range backstop. State rolled up one day and served a cease-and-disist and he sued the state over it and won thus the ‘natural feature’ hill allowed us to use that smaller area of state land as a place to shoot even though there were houses less than 10 acres away across the city line. But there was this part in the opinion that said the ‘natural feature’ and ‘immediately surrounding’ area had to be kept free of trash and debris and ‘maintained’ if it were going to be used for shooting on a routine basis and no permanent structures could be erected on that state property area.

    But progress happened over the years in the small city next door to our firing range area and near the edge of the state land where the city butted up against the state land housing sub divisions and shopping centers started going up.

    It didn’t take long after those city areas became ‘occupied’ that our little area was discovered to be a great dumping spot for just about anything people wanted to dump there and the teen hoodlums started hanging out there too. And away went our little piece of shooting range heaven.

    • To many humans. They always fcknup everything.
      Not satisfied with fcknup earth they’ve started with the sky, is it a star? is it a planet?
      No it’s just little ole me Satellite Spy

  12. When I was in college, people would typically target shoot at a wildlife area about 10 miles away.

    One day my brother and I went, and we were surprised to find a second gen jeep grand Cherokee flipped on its roof, burned out from fire, with hundreds of bullet holes in it, and dozens of empty beer cans thrown into the burnt out carcass.

    Rangers had apparently heard about it, as they pulled up to investigate it just as my brother and I were leaving. Asked if we knew anything about it, but I just expressed my disgust at the whole situation and went on my way without any further questions. I assume it was eventually hauled out at county expense.

  13. Our local Gun Club’s got one of the nicest and well maintained by the club membership ranges I’ve ever been to. It’s not a rule per ce, but a request to leave it nicest for the next guy. The only time you’ll see an RSO is when a match is going on. The rest of the time it’s pretty open, with 20 shooting Stations. Volunteers gather any cases left once or twice a month, but most of us Police our brass pretty well. Recycled Brass helps provide funds for the youth program.
    The $50/ year membership fee, is well worth it.
    Assholes using a shooting spot to dump their unwanted garbage, has been a problem, as far back as I can remember. But most every Gun Owner in my circle is conscientious about leaving the spots clean.

  14. Used to be an area with an abandoned sand pit on county owned land we were using as an impromptu range back up in Wisconsin. Neither the Sherrif, nor the county board had a problem with this.
    Around 1970 we started seeing an influx of people escaping the cities. Buy a few acres and pretend they were country folk. Let their dogs run and leave a mess on both public and private lands. Cut fences and leave gates open after “hunting” on private property without permission.
    The results where the sand pit was blocked off with concrete barriers, most private lands were posted, and we had to organize drives/shoots to get rid of the feral dogs.
    There is no excuse to make that kind of mess for someone else to clean up. And most of us in the firearms community do try to clean up after ourselves. But, it only takes a few idiots to screw things up for everyone.

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