Several of my friends (including LEOs) have placed red dots on their larger model EDCs and swear by them. I’ve tried them and agree they can be a great “upgrade” for those who can shoot more easily with them, but the more I train in CQB and distances under the classic 7 yards, the more I find that the action is often so fast, you don’t have time to acquire your foe in the sights for a perfect shot. It’s pretty much “draw + 2 rounds center mass”, sometimes without your arms extended and in a poor stance (whether Weaver or otherwise).
TEHO. I have dots on my MBRs and might mount one someday on one of my pistols, but for now they don’t provide enough advantage to close-quarter defensive shooting to justify the money.
I don’t have one yet, but I have a pistol cut for one. So I’m looking. It seems like one benefit would be having the ultimate adjustable sights for a wide variety of ammo.
Most of my laser practice at home is for rapid target acquisition from holster in low light. I also throw in move, acquire, and shoot, all at about 8 yards.
At the range, two shots, lower the gun, raise, acquire, shoot again.
Rapid draw, acquisition, shoot….stay alive.
Red dots…not unless my eyes start to weaken. If that happens, I might try to learn shooting by echo-location.
“At the range, two shots, lower the gun, raise, acquire, shoot again.”
Same here. After 25-ish years frequenting the same local (outdoor) range, I have yet to see anyone else doing the same. Everyone else typically mag dumps on the steel rounds.
I think the universe only allocates one of us per range 😉 I haven’t seen anyone else doing that kind of practice either. But I also gather I am the only person I know in person who practices draw and present at home.
Try some of those moves at a public range around here (Metro Detroit), and you will get shown the door. Some may think that’s regrettable, but it’s intended to prevent shooting accidents.
Same at my local outdoor range. The only people I’ve seen actually training is the local LE. Training is all i do at the range. Even when the Mrs. goes along. She used to just shoot to be shooting. She now runs drills which work for her as she can’t see out of 1 eye. The local indoor range is segmented into 5 lane rooms. If you want to do training drills they will accommodate you with prior notification.
I agree with you. Since most of my drills are run under 21 feet (7 yards), I’m working more on speed and drawing/firing from unfamiliar/uncomfortable positions. The bad guy’s not going to wait for me to achieve my perfect isoceles stance before he starts shooting.
We buy sub-compacts and compacts to conceal easier, and then turn around and put an Optic on it, bulking it up. Is a tad paradoxical.
Maybe one day, but I’m not there yet.
There are absolutely incidents when perfect sight alignment isn’t feasible. However, there’s still no disadvantage to running a red dot in this case. Your gun still “points” the same way in your hand. For longer distance shots or times when sight alignment is maybe feasible, red dots are just better.
This one I guess went over my head. It just confused me. I see no relevance.
Red dots have their place. But just like there is no reason to make every little thing it life IP addressable, everything that launches a round does not need a red dot.
As with scopes, most of the money is in the quality of the materials and workmanship. An El Cheapo red dot will likely fail to hold zero after only a few hundred shots, never mind ten thousand plus.
Up close and personal is certainly not the dots forte. Stretch it out in matches and they are an advantage. I run em on all three types of firearms. The GOLD on the shelf speaks for itself.
Truth. I don’t really find them useful until you get past 25 yards on semi-auto pistols, 50 yards on my longer revolvers, and 100 yards on rifles. I do not compete though, that’s just casual shooting. What’s your competition experience, as far as ranges though?
CD, they’re not allowed at our Range’s competitions (load of Fudds on the governing board).
I quit the local competitions due to scheduling conflicts when I was still working. I still receive the notifications and there in big bold letters is the “No Optics/Lasers Permitted: in competitions rule.
At my range you have service, non-service, and not-to-count.
Service class is a service rifle as described in our rule book or any other recognized service rifle. There are allowed modifications such as target back sights.
Non-service is any other rifle with or without optics. A service rifle with optics is considered non-service.
Not-to-count differs from the above classes in that the shooter is not using the required position (100m standing, 200m sitting, 300m prone). Usually these are beginners gaining experience, older people who still want to shoot, or people getting a zero with a hunting rifle. Positions are usually off the bench or prone off a bipod or rest.
My eyesight is bad, I have to look through the bifocal part of my glasses to see the sights on my pistol. NO GOOD. I have to practice both with and without the laser just in case the battery goes out when I need it the most.
Chose I’ve shot as much as 60 yards at the USPSA Nationals with a pistol. Bullseye is shot at 25 and 50 yards. I’ve used an Aimpoint on my XM177 out to 225 yards. Shotgun wise I run one on a Benneli and have done slugs at 75 yards. I do run a dot mounted on my main Open rifle on the hand guard for the close targets vs. using a scope on those 5 yard head shots.
I have found that they really helped me across the board. I have not considered one in my SD carry guns but I also shoot a ton of iron sights using them in matches since Day 1. I taught for the Fed. Bureau of Prisons and the only dots being used were on my SORT/SWAT 9 MM carbines we used.
Poors? Is that even a thing? Every household in America has a number of cell phones, computers, flat screen tv’s, video games. A car for every licensed driver. And we are fat.
Peggy Noonan (Regan speech writer, the “These are the boys…” Omaha beach speech her most famous) wrote about an African dignitary visiting for the first time at the White House. During lunch, she asked him what he had seen in America so far that made the biggest impression on him. He replied, “Even your poor are fat!”…
and everyone has multiple credit cards while carrying far too much debt in general. Few live within their means, most have no savings to speak of, and more than want to admit are living from check to check.
There is a price that comes with a new phone every year and a new car every five. Not to mention moving every 5-7 years if not more. What little is owned doesn’t amount to much. There isn’t much that gets paid off and when it is there is something else that takes it’s place.
Divorce rates are exceedingly high and that certainly takes a financial toll.
Meh. This comes across as yet moar from the “Buy skillz! Only [xx]xx.99!” department. This time dressed up as a cutsie meme instead of a flat-out ad.
Dots have a place but that place is not “everywhere”. The drive to try to put competition tools/accessories in the hands of every single person in every single situation is nothing more than a money grab IMHO. Not the first and certainly not the last but also no different, really.
Case in point: “Optics packages” for the LC380. Only $93-$130 over at opticsfactory.
The side story to that is that people who tend to dot a pistol fall into two categories: People who shoot seriously and actually use the dot to extend the range they can quickly acquire a target (and hit it) and then the people who try to buy a skillset, you know, the guy with the Wilson Combat 1911 shooting a 2′ pattern at less than 7 yards. The latter are FAR more numerous, hence the push to get them to buy MOAR skillz(!) on every front.
I hope I can make a third category of person who owns a red dot on a pistol. I like to take variety to the range. I always take something old, something new, something weak, and something strong. If I’m just shooting pistols, that usually means my old Luger sits alongside my Fk Brno with it’s red dot on the table to cover old and new.
Fair, but I’m guessing, just guessing mind you, that you actually can hit what you shoot at and probably at least a smidgen past 7 yards.
If so, then place yourself in Category 1 and next time you’re at the range feel free to let The Scorpions – Rock You Like a Hurricane play in your head (or on your headset depending on your choice of earpro).
I use them on my Bullseye pistols. Everyone else in the league is using them, so it is pretty much standard equipment. On defensive pistols, I can find that front sight a lot quicker than the dot, so I’m sticking with irons.
I picked up an MR920 and a RMR to see if it would be something I would like. Going on over a year now and there are a few issues I have repeatedly come across. After being in the waistband all day the window will fill up with lint (I wear undershirts). Debris, dust and grass filling the window up when I am down working at the river or outside in general, I like to carry outside the waistband. Fogging, I have pulled the pistol multiple times and have had the window fogged up. The fogging was a result of carrying IWB while working to prevent debris from accumulating in the window. I see the benefits of a red dot, hell I run them on my rifles. Unfortunately for me and my situation they are not feasible on a carry pistol for daily use.
I ran a C-more for years on my 38 Super race gun and still I would occassionally lose the dot on the draw. I havent had a red dot on a pistol since the Burris Fast Fire came out and I put it on a G34. Could never find the dot on draw and could never figure out if it was off or not. That’s been a few years. Lots more dot mfrs now. I’m sure one of the Trijicons would work but I dont want the damn thing on my pistol. I run an ACOG and a Sig dot on 2 different MSR’s and they work great. Meme is too funny.
I just completed a certification qualification course for my position. We had two guys with red dots. One had the batteries die midway through (bummer in real shooting situations) I spent so much time learning the point and shoot…my rounds got off quicker and more accurately. The result I damn near maxed the qualification shoot.
The one officer who had the red dot that did not die took longer to acquire his shots and was much less accurate.
IN reality you can have a red dot, a laser a pointer hell a guide dog to put you on target..but if your trigger squeeze and your grip is wrong..its really not going to help.
The only thing a red dot did for me was tell me that my pistol fundamentals sucked. The cool thing about a red dot is that it instantaneously told me my suckness.
Cleaned up the fundamentals, and 25 yards no problem.
Call me a boomer fudd but I’m only in my 30s, I just do not get optics on a pistol, and I’ll never do it. Pistol hunting? Ok, I see the niche use. But I really don’t see an advantage. I use plenty of optics on long guns. I’ve been carrying for over 10 years now and have perfected my carry style and adding yet more weight and bulk is not a part of that process.
At some point in his life, my father decided he’d tried enough different foods that he no longer needed to try anything else. If it sounded weird or foreign to him, he wasn’t interested. I used to be irritated at his stubbornness. Now, I just shrug my shoulders.
If you’ve decided that you don’t need a red dot on your pistol and you’ll never use one… Good for you. Maybe one day I’ll reach that plateau in my life too. (Probably already there in terms of music tbh. Kids these days.)
That’s hilarious.
Print more money. It worked for the German Weimar Republic.
/sarc
Pretty sure that’s us now.
Several of my friends (including LEOs) have placed red dots on their larger model EDCs and swear by them. I’ve tried them and agree they can be a great “upgrade” for those who can shoot more easily with them, but the more I train in CQB and distances under the classic 7 yards, the more I find that the action is often so fast, you don’t have time to acquire your foe in the sights for a perfect shot. It’s pretty much “draw + 2 rounds center mass”, sometimes without your arms extended and in a poor stance (whether Weaver or otherwise).
TEHO. I have dots on my MBRs and might mount one someday on one of my pistols, but for now they don’t provide enough advantage to close-quarter defensive shooting to justify the money.
https://www.swatvault.com/columns/training-and-tactics/william-e-fairbairn/
I don’t have one yet, but I have a pistol cut for one. So I’m looking. It seems like one benefit would be having the ultimate adjustable sights for a wide variety of ammo.
Haz,
Agree. CQD, will be sudden and close.
Most of my laser practice at home is for rapid target acquisition from holster in low light. I also throw in move, acquire, and shoot, all at about 8 yards.
At the range, two shots, lower the gun, raise, acquire, shoot again.
Rapid draw, acquisition, shoot….stay alive.
Red dots…not unless my eyes start to weaken. If that happens, I might try to learn shooting by echo-location.
“At the range, two shots, lower the gun, raise, acquire, shoot again.”
Same here. After 25-ish years frequenting the same local (outdoor) range, I have yet to see anyone else doing the same. Everyone else typically mag dumps on the steel rounds.
I think the universe only allocates one of us per range 😉 I haven’t seen anyone else doing that kind of practice either. But I also gather I am the only person I know in person who practices draw and present at home.
Try some of those moves at a public range around here (Metro Detroit), and you will get shown the door. Some may think that’s regrettable, but it’s intended to prevent shooting accidents.
Same at my local outdoor range. The only people I’ve seen actually training is the local LE. Training is all i do at the range. Even when the Mrs. goes along. She used to just shoot to be shooting. She now runs drills which work for her as she can’t see out of 1 eye. The local indoor range is segmented into 5 lane rooms. If you want to do training drills they will accommodate you with prior notification.
I agree with you. Since most of my drills are run under 21 feet (7 yards), I’m working more on speed and drawing/firing from unfamiliar/uncomfortable positions. The bad guy’s not going to wait for me to achieve my perfect isoceles stance before he starts shooting.
We buy sub-compacts and compacts to conceal easier, and then turn around and put an Optic on it, bulking it up. Is a tad paradoxical.
Maybe one day, but I’m not there yet.
There are absolutely incidents when perfect sight alignment isn’t feasible. However, there’s still no disadvantage to running a red dot in this case. Your gun still “points” the same way in your hand. For longer distance shots or times when sight alignment is maybe feasible, red dots are just better.
Man, fuck that inflation.
Although I always know what you’re going to say, it still cracks me up.
That would be nice, except Joe “Brandon” made sure it’s messing with us.
This one I guess went over my head. It just confused me. I see no relevance.
Red dots have their place. But just like there is no reason to make every little thing it life IP addressable, everything that launches a round does not need a red dot.
“It just confused me. I see no relevance.”
A good red-dot can cost nearly what the gun it is mounted on costs…
As with scopes, most of the money is in the quality of the materials and workmanship. An El Cheapo red dot will likely fail to hold zero after only a few hundred shots, never mind ten thousand plus.
A red dot would look really strange on my .41mag Blackhawk.
In that case, they can design a red dot that looks like a pistol scope….
Up close and personal is certainly not the dots forte. Stretch it out in matches and they are an advantage. I run em on all three types of firearms. The GOLD on the shelf speaks for itself.
Truth. I don’t really find them useful until you get past 25 yards on semi-auto pistols, 50 yards on my longer revolvers, and 100 yards on rifles. I do not compete though, that’s just casual shooting. What’s your competition experience, as far as ranges though?
With rifles, out to 300m with iron sights. 400m with scopes.
CD, they’re not allowed at our Range’s competitions (load of Fudds on the governing board).
I quit the local competitions due to scheduling conflicts when I was still working. I still receive the notifications and there in big bold letters is the “No Optics/Lasers Permitted: in competitions rule.
At my range you have service, non-service, and not-to-count.
Service class is a service rifle as described in our rule book or any other recognized service rifle. There are allowed modifications such as target back sights.
Non-service is any other rifle with or without optics. A service rifle with optics is considered non-service.
Not-to-count differs from the above classes in that the shooter is not using the required position (100m standing, 200m sitting, 300m prone). Usually these are beginners gaining experience, older people who still want to shoot, or people getting a zero with a hunting rifle. Positions are usually off the bench or prone off a bipod or rest.
Meanwhile…Baldwin shooting will be media holed and we have movement in Kyle’s case
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/juliorosas/2021/10/26/kenosha-judge-rules-two-people-kyle-rittenhouse-shot-cant-be-called-victims-but-can-be-called-this-n2598054
He is not wrong!
My eyesight is bad, I have to look through the bifocal part of my glasses to see the sights on my pistol. NO GOOD. I have to practice both with and without the laser just in case the battery goes out when I need it the most.
I may be poor but I’m proud…or something like that.
Chose I’ve shot as much as 60 yards at the USPSA Nationals with a pistol. Bullseye is shot at 25 and 50 yards. I’ve used an Aimpoint on my XM177 out to 225 yards. Shotgun wise I run one on a Benneli and have done slugs at 75 yards. I do run a dot mounted on my main Open rifle on the hand guard for the close targets vs. using a scope on those 5 yard head shots.
I have found that they really helped me across the board. I have not considered one in my SD carry guns but I also shoot a ton of iron sights using them in matches since Day 1. I taught for the Fed. Bureau of Prisons and the only dots being used were on my SORT/SWAT 9 MM carbines we used.
Poors? Is that even a thing? Every household in America has a number of cell phones, computers, flat screen tv’s, video games. A car for every licensed driver. And we are fat.
Poor? Where?
“And we are fat.
Poor? Where?”
Peggy Noonan (Regan speech writer, the “These are the boys…” Omaha beach speech her most famous) wrote about an African dignitary visiting for the first time at the White House. During lunch, she asked him what he had seen in America so far that made the biggest impression on him. He replied, “Even your poor are fat!”…
and everyone has multiple credit cards while carrying far too much debt in general. Few live within their means, most have no savings to speak of, and more than want to admit are living from check to check.
There is a price that comes with a new phone every year and a new car every five. Not to mention moving every 5-7 years if not more. What little is owned doesn’t amount to much. There isn’t much that gets paid off and when it is there is something else that takes it’s place.
Divorce rates are exceedingly high and that certainly takes a financial toll.
There ARE reasons why the poor stay poor.
I moved up the ladder. Now I live Direct Deposit to Direct Deposit, LOL.
Your points are spot on and correct.
The next gun buy could well land me in marriage counseling (she caught on to the “I’m buying it for you dear” ploy 🤣🤣).
Meh. This comes across as yet moar from the “Buy skillz! Only [xx]xx.99!” department. This time dressed up as a cutsie meme instead of a flat-out ad.
Dots have a place but that place is not “everywhere”. The drive to try to put competition tools/accessories in the hands of every single person in every single situation is nothing more than a money grab IMHO. Not the first and certainly not the last but also no different, really.
Case in point: “Optics packages” for the LC380. Only $93-$130 over at opticsfactory.
The side story to that is that people who tend to dot a pistol fall into two categories: People who shoot seriously and actually use the dot to extend the range they can quickly acquire a target (and hit it) and then the people who try to buy a skillset, you know, the guy with the Wilson Combat 1911 shooting a 2′ pattern at less than 7 yards. The latter are FAR more numerous, hence the push to get them to buy MOAR skillz(!) on every front.
🤣 Optics packages for a LC380.. wow…
Completely agree.
I hope I can make a third category of person who owns a red dot on a pistol. I like to take variety to the range. I always take something old, something new, something weak, and something strong. If I’m just shooting pistols, that usually means my old Luger sits alongside my Fk Brno with it’s red dot on the table to cover old and new.
Fair, but I’m guessing, just guessing mind you, that you actually can hit what you shoot at and probably at least a smidgen past 7 yards.
If so, then place yourself in Category 1 and next time you’re at the range feel free to let The Scorpions – Rock You Like a Hurricane play in your head (or on your headset depending on your choice of earpro).
Just Something the Poors Say Edition! Free solitaire spider online.
I use them on my Bullseye pistols. Everyone else in the league is using them, so it is pretty much standard equipment. On defensive pistols, I can find that front sight a lot quicker than the dot, so I’m sticking with irons.
I picked up an MR920 and a RMR to see if it would be something I would like. Going on over a year now and there are a few issues I have repeatedly come across. After being in the waistband all day the window will fill up with lint (I wear undershirts). Debris, dust and grass filling the window up when I am down working at the river or outside in general, I like to carry outside the waistband. Fogging, I have pulled the pistol multiple times and have had the window fogged up. The fogging was a result of carrying IWB while working to prevent debris from accumulating in the window. I see the benefits of a red dot, hell I run them on my rifles. Unfortunately for me and my situation they are not feasible on a carry pistol for daily use.
I ran a C-more for years on my 38 Super race gun and still I would occassionally lose the dot on the draw. I havent had a red dot on a pistol since the Burris Fast Fire came out and I put it on a G34. Could never find the dot on draw and could never figure out if it was off or not. That’s been a few years. Lots more dot mfrs now. I’m sure one of the Trijicons would work but I dont want the damn thing on my pistol. I run an ACOG and a Sig dot on 2 different MSR’s and they work great. Meme is too funny.
I just completed a certification qualification course for my position. We had two guys with red dots. One had the batteries die midway through (bummer in real shooting situations) I spent so much time learning the point and shoot…my rounds got off quicker and more accurately. The result I damn near maxed the qualification shoot.
The one officer who had the red dot that did not die took longer to acquire his shots and was much less accurate.
IN reality you can have a red dot, a laser a pointer hell a guide dog to put you on target..but if your trigger squeeze and your grip is wrong..its really not going to help.
Fundamentals first.
Agree.
The only thing a red dot did for me was tell me that my pistol fundamentals sucked. The cool thing about a red dot is that it instantaneously told me my suckness.
Cleaned up the fundamentals, and 25 yards no problem.
There’s a reason pretty much all competition shooters are using a dot now.
Call me a boomer fudd but I’m only in my 30s, I just do not get optics on a pistol, and I’ll never do it. Pistol hunting? Ok, I see the niche use. But I really don’t see an advantage. I use plenty of optics on long guns. I’ve been carrying for over 10 years now and have perfected my carry style and adding yet more weight and bulk is not a part of that process.
At some point in his life, my father decided he’d tried enough different foods that he no longer needed to try anything else. If it sounded weird or foreign to him, he wasn’t interested. I used to be irritated at his stubbornness. Now, I just shrug my shoulders.
If you’ve decided that you don’t need a red dot on your pistol and you’ll never use one… Good for you. Maybe one day I’ll reach that plateau in my life too. (Probably already there in terms of music tbh. Kids these days.)
Okay, that’s pretty funny.
Alright who told the boomers at TTAG about iFunny? Spill it. That is OUR APP!