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Being an informed gun owner requires about as much legal research as getting a JD.


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    • Yep, then I think they would all be rifles, subject to advanced worksheet point calculations and depending on things like what type of sights were used on the pistols and how much curvature or padding is in the brace, all subject to the ATF ultimately deciding whatever they want on a case by case basis.

      Then the only question for gun 1, 3, and 4 is whether they are registered or illegal SBRs.

    • I would seriously like to possess a Mad Max style 12′ pistol grip side by side double barrel shotgun/pistol. But that’ll cost you 10 years in a federal prison.

        • ‘…wimpy firearm…’

          Madam, you have obviously never pulled the trigger on a 12″ 12 gauge. Goal #1 is to not have to have the shotty surgically removed from your forehead.

        • Several years ago, before every gun company was making those shockwave 14″ 12ga “firearms”, i made one out of a ithaca pistol grip only shotgun. I made a nice stakeout type birds head grip and cut the barrel to around 14″ and drilled and tapped for a front sight. With bird shot it was a blast but with remington express 1oz slugs it was painful. After that first afternoon of shooting it my middle finger had a nice bruise from the trigger guard slapping it. I miss that old ” firearm” lol.

      • “Ah… muzzle loading. That makes sense.”

        Didn’t even notice that. I figured if a S&W Governor and those short Mossberg and Remington 12 gauges are legal then this must be too. I guess that’s the point of the meme…

  1. And that’s why I stay away from any gray areas. My pistols are stock, and my rifles can’t be confused as anything else.
    I don’t need more complications in my life.

  2. Hello Perpetrators,

    I don’t get what all the fuss is about. It’s all crystal clear.

    Here is my easy to understand video on how to determine if your firearm (not called a weapon) is a handgun or a rifle.

    There ya go, couldn’t be simpler.

  3. How about we make things simple?
    Any firearm with 14.5 inches of barrel with rifling cut into the bore that is designed to fire a self contained, single projectile cartridge is a rifle.
    Shotgun is any smooth bore or rifled firearm with a barrel longer than 14.5 inches that is designed to fire shot shells.
    A pistol is any firearm with a barrel less than 14.5 inches. Regardless of barrel type or ammunition used.
    Any firearm manufactured before Dec.31, 1899 is considered antique, obsolete, curio, relic, or collectable.
    Any firearm using loose powder, and separate projectile regardless of ignition system or method of loading is considered as a black powder antique or replica. Includes firearms using paper cartridge, cap and ball revolvers, or other primitive weapons.
    Any part, or collection of parts that cannot actually chamber and fire a cartridge or shot shell without further assembly, or fitting are considered as parts and not a functional firearm.
    Antiques, curios, relics, replicas, or blackpowder firearms, or parts for modern firearms should not require an FFL for shipment or sales thereof.
    Nor should anyone of basic age of majority be prohibited in the purchase carry or possession of a firearm without being adjudicated as being prohibited to do so. This should include persons who may have been convicted of crimes that have served their full sentence and have fully complied with any court orders for probation, parole, or restitution or court-imposed costs or fines.

  4. OldmaninAL – That’s way too simple for a government bureaucracy to enforce. They would not need 2/3rds of the staff in the “F” department. Devastating to the management moral. But make life much easier for the boots on the ground employee.

  5. The solution to this confusion is simple: We need to invent the Rifstol, which would not be a rifle or a pistol or SBR covered under NFA or title 1 firearms, no background checks or forms or FFL’s and dispense them from vending machines.

    • “The solution to this confusion is simple“

      This meme is terrible and adds to the confusion. To 95% of the American population, there’s no difference between the two weapons on the bottom left and right.

      This meme actually justifies federal government action to ‘clarify’ the difference, to call the one on the left a pistol and the one on the right a rifle is a distinction without a difference.

  6. I’m still confused on why you cant put a stock on a pistol?
    Seems like making it easier to be more accurate would be a good thing.

    • see ruger charger and 10/22 takedown models.
      and i can’t place a choate folding stock on a pistol grip ithaca without losing the legal ability to return it to stock config.

  7. Say what you want about the IPSC and their raceguns, their use of a box makes a lot of sense for a black and white classification based on size (portability and concealability). If it fits in the box it’s a “standard” pistol, if it doesn’t it’s not.

    But of course short barreled rifle/shotgun is an idiotic classification in a country where pistols are (federally) unregulated.

    • Yup, especially when the inclusion of SBR’s and SBS’s in the NFA was because the original draft of the NFA also included handguns — they therefore they included SBR/SBS to avoid people being able to evade the intended prohibition of handguns by cutting down rifles / shotguns.

      After the initial version of the NFA (which planned to simply ban civilian possession of NFA weapons) got panned (DOJ opined that it would not survive a constitutional challenge, and inclusion of handguns was a nonstarter with Congressmen from the South and West), they rewrote it to drop inclusion of handguns and change the outright ban to an absurdly high tax ($200 in 1934 was the equivalent of about $4,000 today).

      The inclusion of SBR’s and SBS’s in the NFA was thus more of a historical / drafting error than based on any actual logic.

  8. I’ll make it simple – they’re all firearms.

    It doesn’t matter the barrel length, stock, multiple grips, mag capacity, brace or not, bump stock or rubber band.

    All legal period. You can call your “pistol” a “rifle” or the other way around. The ATF only needs to know that it is a firearm protected by the 2nd Amendment.

    But of course that would be too easy to understand.

  9. Simple is not something the bureaucrats want. Remember the line about making law-abiding citizens into criminals so they can be more easily controlled? Also, complication is their justification for existence, and their bread and butter. Streamlining bureaucracy isn’t even an effort in futility. It’s an oxymoron.


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