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Well .300 WM and .30-30 are kind of different animals here, but 6.5 Creedmoor is better than .308 Winchester, that’s for sure.


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  1. Price and availability of ammo and rifles to shoot it, as well as the intended use, have to be taken into consideration before declaring one better than the other. I feel like declaring 6.5 better without any caveats is Jeremy trolling.

      • If the general comparison is .308 to 6.5, then why are we limiting the conversation to shooting precision rifle? That’s why I mentioned intended use. 6.5 doesn’t make sense for some people.

  2. Can we mention barrel life? You’ll get about 3x more rounds out of a .308 barrel compared to a 6.5CM barrel.

    I’ve used 6.5×55 in the past. Incredibly accurate cartridge even out of a Swedish military barrel. But after a thousand rounds plus previous usage the throat eroded so much the gun was dropping shots.

    • “Can we mention barrel life? You’ll get about 3x more rounds out of a .308 barrel compared to a 6.5CM barrel.”

      That always seems to be the thing the ‘chest-thumpers’ conveniently forget – Yeah, there’s always a newer and hotter literal barrel-burner round out there, but at what cost when you have to re-barrel after a few hundred rounds?

      My new scout rifle project will be in .308 for one major reason – I ain’t made of money… 🙁

      • Ya know if you damage yer barrel you may or may not be able to order one online(if the dims n rino scum ban online guns). But hey what do I know(no rifles with a 3 or 6 caliber). Just saw a couple videos warning of big price hikes…

      • Don’t you ever get sick of being a fat parasite with literally no redeeming qualities? Examine your sorry life and make the changes you so desperately require.

        • I don’t know, nameless, brainless troll, do you ever get sick of being a stupid, useless pimple on the arse of humanity???

          Go pound salt in your @$$, nameless, brainless troll.

        • avatar Geoff "A day without an obsessed, obviously brain-damaged and mentally-ill demented troll (who deserves to live in New Jersey) PR

          “Don’t you ever get sick of being a fat parasite with literally no redeeming qualities?”

          No, for 2 reasons – 1, I’m not fat. 2, By doing nothing more than comment in TTAG, I piss you off. That alone gives me a sense of great purpose in life, and you amuse the hell out of me with your pathetic attempts at insults.

          Have you stopped having very inappropriate thoughts about your daughter? Thoughts no decent father would have for his daughter?

          Dance, troll, I order you to respond. You will do as you are told… 🙂

      • Geoff, I’m a big scout rifle fan. The commercial rifles all fall a little short of what I want. My favorite is the one I had built by Jim Brockman those many years ago. Nice, but practical. That’s about the best compliment I’ve ever paid a rifle. I’m interested in your project. Keep us apprised of your progress.

        • Oh! .308/7.62 NATO rules! With a nod to 30-06, .303 British and a few Mauser calibers. The rest is just reinventing the wheel. (6.5 CM what? Is that even still a thing?) Unless you’re talking about sub-caliber carbine rounds developed in the 1940-1950s. That’s just a smaller wheel.

        • I would have bought a Ruger Scout Rifle a long time ago if it only took a double stack magazine. Seriously, the Brits figured this out in what, the 1880s?!? Take a Lee-Enfield(ish) 10 round magazine and put it in a scout rifle and I’ll whip my checkbook out so fast… And, of course a 20 round that sticks out like the Scout’s 10 rounder.

        • avatar Geoff "A day without an obsessed, obviously brain-damaged and mentally-ill demented troll (who deserves to live in New Jersey) PR

          I have a .30 cal can inbound, and the rifle I’m building will be for nighttime feral hog elimination, so I will be working up some .308 subsonic loads for it…

        • I watched the video and you made valid points in favor of a semi-auto scout. However, I’ll stick with my turnbolt. I own several .308 semi-auto rifles with detachable magazines. One of which is an M1-A. They have their job, my scout has it’s. Tell you what though. That muzzle brake would have to go. I fired that rifle one time with no hearing protection and returned it to the owner. He had never fired it. He changed out the brake for a flash suppressor. Before someone brings up hearing protection, I always wear it at the range. Almost never in the real world.

        • “Hey G, I did an M1A Scout rifle on you tube.”

          Cool, I opened a tab for it, and I’ll check it out later tonight. Thanks!

        • GF, people forget that. In a real firefight there is no hearing protection, from a small caliber DGU up to and including an outdoor 30 cal rifle, its gonna be wicked loud.

        • Rad, you don’t think I don’t know that? But that muzzle brake, on that rifle is the worst I’ve ever seen. It’s not even necessary. It’s only a 16″ semi-auto .308. What recoil? I have a 7mm Mag with a Mag-Na-Port muzzle brake. (That’s the way I bought it. Except for that it was a smoking deal.) I couldn’t care less about that brake. Not anywhere close to that M1A brake. Just put a bird cage flash suppressor on a 16″ barrel and leave it alone. I don’t care what make/model it is as long as it’s:
          1. .308/7.62 NATO.
          2. It’s a quality rifle.
          3. Probably no longer in production.
          4. If it’s a M-1 Tanker with a Beretta folding stock chambered in .308. Call me! I’ll buy it.

        • Great vid RM👍

          LPVOs technology has made serious advancements in the last few years. Making them a viable scout rifle choice. But ONLY in a QD mount, AND paired with quality BUIS.
          This allows the user to quickly jettison a damaged optic and get back to the situ at hand with BUIS ASAP.

          True 1x and larger tube designed (allowing for more light transmission to the eye) LPVOs have come into their own. Making the scout rifle a “double threat”, the optic acts like an RDS up close (1x), yet dials up to do effective work out to several hundred yards (8x, or even 10x).

          Eye reliefs of around 4″ make Bindon method shooting a breeze.

    • I’ve put well over that through mine, still does clover leafs.
      Is it possible you were running a hot load ?
      I usually load to match the military pressure, use ball powder.

    • Southern,

      I happened to inherit a “sporterized” 6.5 Swedish (with the original action and barrel (although the barrel was cut down)), and it not only shoots like a dream (and is as accurate as you represent), but it has THOUSANDS of rounds through it (at least 1,000-1,500 since I got it, and it’s mil-surp) and the barrel is still pristine, the action locks up tighter than . . . well, never mind. The Swedes originally picked the 6.5 with the idea of making a “hot” load, and . . . the original Krag-manufactured rifles had trouble handling the pressure. They intentionally down-loaded ammunition after that. Factory loads for the 6.5 are not “hot”, which is one of the reasons they are such a joy to shoot. The 6.5/.25 projectile is one of those calibers that is inherently ballistically efficient (the reason for the 6.5 Creedmore, 6.5 Grendel, .25-06, etc.).

      Mine has taken deer and even elk (shot placement MATTERS!!), just fine. Wouldn’t try it on a moose, or a bear, but that’s just common sense. The “modern” 6.5s are loaded “hot”, and may very well eat barrels. Unless you handload and load them “hot”, any standard loading specifications specifically for the 6.5 Swedish shouldn’t burn out barrels. It is not a “do everything” gun, but for what it does do (varmints up to deer), it does it VERY well. Perhaps my favorite gun.

      • Don’t forget the 6.5 bullet propensity to turn in tissue and transfer energy.

        I’ve fired thousands of these and I’ve seen the “magic bullet” behavior many times. Even a layer of soft sheet metal will turn these sideways.

      • I had a replacement barrel in 6.5 installed but I had the pitch wrong. I replaced it with a .308 barrel I run with a slow powder (AR2209).

        The rifle was originally bought as a barrelled action with scope mounts installed. The rifling looked good but I didn’t know about throat erosion at the time. It has been a learning experience and an ongoing 30 year project.

        • Well, Southern, IF you get it sorted, the 6.5 Swedish is an absolute joy to shoot. Mine is still at most 1.5 MOA with standard factory ammo. If I care to pay for the uptick for “match” ammo (there are some out there for 6.5 Swedish), and take my time, I can shoot 1 MOA easily. You already know what the recoil is like (I honestly can’t tell the difference between the 6.5 Swedish and 5.56 NATO in “felt recoil” – although the 6.5 seems less “snappy” to me). Mine shoots really flat out to about 600 yards, and is manageable out to 800 (but doesn’t have much oomph, at that point). Come to America, bring your 6.5, and I’ll try to get us deer tags for Colorado. It’s your job to figure out how to get the meat home.

        • LoD, thanks for the offer To be honest, I’ll stick with .308 as cases are cheap and the range of projectiles is better than 6.5mm in my part of the world.

          I use the rifle up to 400m on the range and 200m when hunting. “A man has to know his limitations”.

          And you can keep the harvested meat.

  3. Cannot weigh-in on this one. The only rifles I have shot were 5.56×45 and 22LR. Lots of good experiences ahead.

    • The reason both letter are capitalized, I suppose.

      6.5 CM would be over 2.5 inches, a round better suited for an anti-aircraft battery… 🙁

    • NOPE, I read it as Centimeters too and thought someone meant to write MM but goofed.
      I like the 6.5 Grendel for no good reason other than it is very similar to the British Post WW2 prototype cartridges that should have become the NATO standard. Creedmoor sounds more British, FWIW.

  4. More bullet weights and designs are available for the .308, making it a better choice for hunting inside 700 yards.

  5. .243 Winchester, yup , it punches small holes way out there too.
    ,,,,,,,, If god didn’t want us to use a 1911/45acp he wouldn’t have invented John Moses Browning.

    • Amen, possum, although many a bar fight has started over who was the “best” gun designer – John Moses Browing, Samuel Colt, John Garand, Mikhail Kalashnikov, Richard Jordan Gatling, Hiram Maxim, Eugene Stoner – name your poison. I’m a huge JMB fan.

      • Lol these types of ‘fights’ are reserved for the many gay bars that Lamp frequents. What a sorry excuse of a man ‘he’ is lol 🖕🤡.

        • Aww, nameless, brainless troll, I was beginning to think you didn’t love me anymore! How ya doin’, basement-dwelling loser?? Your mom kick you out, yet?? I hear rumors that she got tired of your daily circle jerks with MinorIQ and dacian the stupid, so she locked you out. Think one of them will take you in to THEIR mom’s basement?? At least that will make those daily circle jerks easier to organize.

          You become more stupid and juvenile every time you post. You need to go micturate up a cable, then go pound salt in your @$$. You remain too stupid to insult.

    • There’s no conceivable hunting application in North America that can’t be solved with either a .308 case based cartridge or a .30-06 based one.

      • I agree.
        I figure a hunter could do the world with 22-250, 308/30-06, 375HH.
        The .300 Wthrby I purchased was a mistake I’m finding it cant do that much more then 06 . Dont get me wrong the .300 will reach out farther, has more umph, and the one I own is very accurate, however the trade off wasn’t worth the cost.

        • I’m just trying to picture a possum lighting off a .300 WeatherBug or a .375H&H. You must be one tough possum.

        • You could limit that to just the .375H&H. At a starting load, it duplicates the .30-06 ballistics and at it’s top end is perfectly respectable for the Cape Buffalo.

    • Possum, you forgot to add “please rise” and “be seated” before and after invoking The Name. For shame, marsupial one, for shame.

  6. Jeremy,

    Look at your cartoon carefully. 6.5 CM????? So, you’re talking about a round about 4-5X larger than a .50BMG???? Yeah, I’d take that s*** in a heartbeat (assuming I could get ammunition). I THINK you meant “6.5mm”, as in the Creedmore, Grendel, .25-06, etc. But if you’ve got a nice 6.5CM you would like to sell, and a source for ammunition, I am your huckleberry.

    • I think most people understand CM doesn’t mean centimeter anymore than .308 Win isn’t the opposite of .308 Lose 😬

      • With all due respect, Kahlil, when referring to calibers of firearms, what the hell ELSE could “CM” mean???? It CERTAINLY doesn’t mean “millimeters”.

        Sorry, but the “CM” was a mistake. Still, I’d happily take a 6.5CM rifle – with appropriate access to ammunition. Never know when I might want to shoot a TRex or a tank.

        • Dunno, maybe creedmoor? The answer is in the context of the post/joke. If it was a lowercase cm then you’d have more argument room.

        • Kahlil,

          PERHAPS they mean “Creedmor”, but I’ve never seen 6.5 Creedmor abbreviated that way (I don’t shoot it, so I would have no idea what they put on their ammo boxes).

  7. 6.5 Creedmoor better than .308 Win.?!? Whatever you’re smoking I want some. The Creedmoor only has an advantage over .308 at ranges over 600 yards. How much game are you taking at that range? And if you are interested in long range shooting, the older .260 Remington does everything (other than marketing) the 6.5 Creedmoor does but better. Bottom line is the Creedmoor doesn’t have the case capacity to fulfill it’s raison d’etre. A lighter high BC bullet in the .260 performs better all the way out to 2000 yards than a heavier, slower but even higher BC bullet in the Creedmoor. For hunting the Creedmoor is no different than the .260 or 6.5×55 Swede, but for extreme long range shooting the .260 is better. And for hunting the .308 is hands down better.

    • Gov.,

      You are not incorrect, BUT (and isn’t there always a big “but”???) . . . everybody has a favorite caliber, for their own various reasons. A “good” caliber for one shooter isn’t necessarily a good caliber for another. While I love my 6.5 Swedish, if I really want to “reach out and touch someone” with authority, I use my .300WinMag. One of my buddies that I hunt with tried it, and wasn’t comfortable with the recoil (he shoots mostly .308). The “right” caliber is the one you are comfortable shooting, and will get the job done. That there may “objectively” be a “better” caliber out there is irrelevant – if that caliber doesn’t work for you for WHATEVER reason. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.

      • ‘The “right” caliber is the one you are comfortable shooting, and will get the job done.’

        Cue the venerable .30-30.

        And yeah, getting hit with a .300 Win mag at 1000 yards definitely would not tickle.

      • Also, the .260 Rem put the 6.5 Swede into a short (.308) action and relieved it of the century old gun problem ammunition makers had to account for. In a modern action with modern loads the Swede is every bit as good as the .260 or the Creedmoor. If you’re handloading for a modern action it’s better than either.

        • I believe there’s a few European rifles that have an intermediate length action for the Swede, 7×57, etc. but for the most part, yes buying a Swede means buying a rifle with a .30-06 length action. But that was the central point of Remington putting the 6.5mm bullet into a .308 case.

  8. I’ve taken a lot of deer with an old 30-30. A bunch of hogs with the 308.And a couple bears and moose with a 45-70. Have used rifles from the little 17 bee to the 50 Browning. Each has its pros and cons. Each serves a purpose.
    What is my favorite? That would depend on the task at hand and what I have available.
    What is the most practical for the given task is my favorite at the moment.

  9. I wouldn’t kick either out of my safe, but there is currently only one of the two choices currently residing at that address. And I’ve found exactly nothing that it won’t do for me in the woods and hills of Kentucky.


  10. The best round for the task is the one that completes the task successfully as desired.

    If .308 does that its the best round for the task.
    If 30-30 does that its the best round for the task.
    If .300 does that its the best round for the task.
    If 5.56/.223 does that its the best round for the task.
    If 6.5 does that its the best round for the task.
    if .22 does that its the best round for the task.

    Everything else is subjective or only relevant to its specific use.

    • Seeing way too many well thought out comments for a caliber war in this section. With that said only just starting to see hunting calibers other than 308, 45-70, and 6.5 CM trickle in on the shelves this month so selection can be relevant again.

  11. “but 6.5 Creedmoor is better than .308 Winchester, that’s for sure”
    actually, there is a misunderstanding of ballistics when talking .308 vs 6.5 creedmoor.
    if the .308 is loaded with a bullet that has the same BC as the 6.5 … the 308 can do everything the 6.5 can do.
    it just has more recoil.
    the only advantage the 6.5 has is the same ballistics as the .308 with less recoil.
    but … of course … that requires a lighter bullet … so there is a loss in performance there.

  12. Muzzle brakes; I am a convert, I love them. I can shoot my 300WM endlessly with no beating no bruising. The slender barrel plus MagnaPort has it kick less than my bull barrel 308.
    On a semi, with less muzzle climb etc follow up shots come sooner – the barrel settles back a bit faster. I understand that any flash hider or add on muzzle brake can change the dynamics and alter the “node” so you have to accept accuracy may improve or worsen ( but MagnaPort adds no mass). The issue is severe blast at the sides and I was told to not fire those sabot 22 as the sabot hangs up or something?? Anyone understand this? I don’t get it. So what if sabot plastic blocks the holes? Would it create an obstruction severe enough to cause a problem (I guess that sounds plausible). Anyway I never tested my big bag of sabot 22 out of concern but the book says a .224 bullet pushed by the case capacity of 300 WM will go past 4000fps unless it shreds in flight and in any case will over stabilize and nod. But I wanted to fire an FMJ into a grapefruit to see if I could vaporize the whole grapefruit.


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