Germany’s RWS Turn Its Back on .9mm Trend

German ammo maker RWS seems to be betting the farm on that whole “bigger is better” thing. I’m down with the “it ain’t the caliber it’s the shot placement” adage. But then it’s nice to have the luxury of choice.


  1. avatar David says:

    A point 9mm round is pretty useless. What’s that, about the thickness of pencil lead?

    (How long before the title of the post is edited? Tick tock….)

    1. avatar Brett says:

      There is a meme involved that you are not tracking.

      1. avatar Mike in NC says:

        I counted nine (or is that point nine?) other stories here on TTAG dealing with the .9mm meme. Plus one .045 cal!

        1. avatar Derek says:

          I prefer .45mm handguns. I watched an old episode of NCIS last night. Apparently Tokarev TT-30s are 25mm.

  2. avatar miforest says:

    RWS ammo is very good. Norma is too. a case of getting what you pay for.

    1. avatar APBTFan says:

      I’ve had outstanding results with RWS Target Rifle .22LR’s.

    2. avatar Rokurota says:

      Love RWS 9mm (not .9mm) match. Didn’t they use to load it in Switzerland?

  3. avatar Chas says:

    It’s both – caliber AND shot placement.

  4. avatar MotoJB says:

    Ahhhh…Sprechen Sie Deutsch? NO.

    1. I think that’s nein.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Nein millimeter?

      2. avatar Adam says:

        I speak Polish and Russian, but no German–sorry.

  5. Price is a big factor too. I do 70% of my shooting with .22’s. The rest with 9mm and 7.62×39 cause it is the next cheapest. I own guns in every other caliber too and shoot them sometimes as a novelty.

    I have shoot all sorts of targets. Larger pistol rounds may be a little better then 9mm, but not that much better. I think a person is better off practicing more with cheaper ammo, then practicing less with more expensive ammo.

  6. avatar Aharon says:

    Wow, I’ve forgotten all the German that I never studied.

  7. avatar Tommy Knocker says:

    Hey my German is rusty, but I thought this guy just said something about the third Reich being now located in Las Vegas and from there they would launch an attack to take over the world? That the showgirls will be part of a new eugenics program. I don’t know for sure but that is what I heard.

    1. avatar JPD says:

      Being half German, I will confirm your translation of his little sells talk. There was also a mention of needing “donors” to help the showgirls in the “program”.
      I submitted your name.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        He didn’t say that the showgirls need “donors” to help with the “program.” He said the girls need “donuts” to help with the “pogrom.”

        Okay, so my German is a little rusty.

      2. avatar Tommy Knocker says:

        Danke JPD…..btw I have dibs on any tall redheads !

  8. avatar Ralph says:

    I thought I heard him say “Die Amerikaner werden nichts kaufen.”

  9. avatar Adam says:

    I can’t speak German, so I didn’t catch what Herr Vogel said, other than “knockdown power.” The Germans make good stuff, though, so I’d be buyin’. (I have a thirty year-old Eheim filter on my aquarium–acquired second-hand–that’s still running like a charm.)

    Why do people beat up on 9×19? It has better penetration than .45ACP, about the same energy (and only about 50lb/ft less than .40), and far less bulk and cost. Oh–and kabooms are almost unheard of, thanks to the skinny round’s less hoop stress. And nines, even FMJ, WILL kill people:

    “Many disparage the 9mm’s stopping power, and knowing that only military “ball” ammunition was available, I asked if this had been a problem. Spook said that it hadn’t. He knows what some of the gun magazine chest-beaters claim in print, and admits that he hasn’t shot any blocks of ballistic gelatin. He has shot eight men with the nine, though, and all went down with center thorax hits. One or two shots sufficed, if well placed. Spook knows that others have complained about the nine, and wonders where they hit their opponents. He has talked with a couple of tank crewmen who shot Iraqis off their huge armored mounts, and they seemed satisfied, too.”

  10. avatar jwm says:

    I’ve used RWS. Quality stuff. Somewhere I got the idea it was Swiss made.

  11. avatar Jack says:

    Where do you get this bigger is better from, the theme is actually green and lead free ammo. He does talk a lot about knockdown power but in general terms.

    And yes, I spreche the German

    1. avatar Redog says:

      in fact I don’t think he said anything about 9mm but instead showed of some of their new products

    2. avatar Wellington says:

      Did you notice the hilarious closing at the very end of his presentation of their “alternative” lead free .30-06 round?

      “Und das Wild wird tierschutzgerecht getötet.”
      “And the game will be killed in accordance with animal welfare.”

      He stumbles on it a bit and it seems he knows how ridiculous it sounds. But what an efficient phrase.

    3. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      My spoken Deutschesprache is a bit rusty, but that’s absolutely what I got out of it too. RWS is basically bragging on an elimination of lead in their products, most all of what they showed was hunting ammunition in several different bullet types. For example, 9.3×62, which was shown near the end, is a very popular hunting cartridge in Europe, a tad more energy than our .35 Whelen. Both are of the same concept – take a military high powered rifle round, put a bigger diameter, heavier bullet in the case and convert a military bolt action rifle to a sporting rifle.

      BTW, did his accent sound to you as tho German isn’t his native language? It sounded the way Americans who are fluent sound to my ear.

  12. avatar flboots says:

    When someone screams the loudest about a subject they know less about that said subject. But at 30ft a couple of well placed 22’s will take someone down. Sure bigger calipers will take someone down, so will well placed shots.

  13. avatar mountocean says:

    Actually I’ve heard .9mm has less muzzle energy than a .22, but I haven’t seen any hard numbers, so I can’t be sure.

  14. avatar Lance says:

    I agree pointed pistol ammo does not outperform regular round nose FMJ in 9mm. But I do compliment RWS one of the best foreign makers of expensive ammo. Like Hintonburger only down side is that there boxers primers are smaller than US Canadian and British commercial ammo to warn ammo reloaders.

    Wish they or some one would make reloadable 5.45mm ammo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. avatar Kris says:

    Those first few rounds appear to be .9m. I like it!

  16. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    People need to understand that in Europe, most all arms that civilians can own are sporting arms – and in many countries, you cannot own a rifle in a military caliber.

    Also, in Germany, long shots are discouraged. If you’re lining up a shot on a stag at 150 yards, other hunters will probably look askance at you. The German hunter is very keen on one-shot-kills, DRT. As such, they prefer close, certain shots and they don’t pussyfoot around with light bullets.

    Popular cartridges for hunting in Europe include the 6.5×55 Swede, 8×57, 7×64, 9.3×62, etc.

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