“The homeowner gave us some pretty good details- but we want to know a little bit more as to what caused him to fire at the suspect.” That’s copspeak for This isn’t a clear self-defense situation and we’re probably going to charge the homeowner.
The incident in question happened Wednesday morning in Fresno, California. The homeowner’s Ring system alerted him to an attempted break-in — the second in two weeks at the home. That’s when, according to abc30.com, the homeowner grabbed a gun and made his way outside.
By that time detectives were told, the suspect had jumped a fence and was running.
At some point, the homeowner confronted the attempted burglar, and several shots were fired.
Police found the wounded perp not far away with multiple gunshot wounds. And the news report says “there’s no evidence leading investigators to believe the suspect had a weapon. ”
We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again…don’t chase a fleeing burglar or attacker. Once you do, you lose benefit of the doubt in the eyes of the law.
Did the would be burglar turn and face the homeowner who was running after him? Was the burglar armed? Did he attack the homeowner? All of these questions are what the detective quoted in the story above will try to determine. And if the police believe the homeowner wasn’t in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm when he pulled the trigger, he will likely be charged with assault or even attempted murder.
Being burglarized is traumatizing. Being targeted twice in two week is doubly so. But once you see the punk running off into the night, dial 911. Secure your home and let them handle it from there. When you chase a fleeing criminal, you risk freedom and your gun rights.
F that criminal in his neck sideways and Kommiefornia too.
We are about to be at full tilt on criminals are right and good folks are wrong
The state is more concerned with you interfering with their monopoly on force than with a law abiding citizen being secure in the persons and property. Look at it from the state’s perspective; The criminal helps provide justification for the ever growing police state and expansion of Government powers. You just interfered with that, you lowly peon, and you are going to jail.
Texas has it right. You can legally shoot a criminal who is trying to break into your car at night. From your balcony. With a scoped rifle.
Yes, this has actually happened.
This is the way
Actually, in Lubbock about 1983, a citizen observed teenagers stealing hubcaps. The kids were warned to stop and they flipped the bird in the direction of the person warning them. The next thing they knew, someone fired on them with with a .22 wounding several. The police arrived and they told the police what happened. As the police advised them of their rights, the kids complained that they were innocent because they were shot. The police said “yes, you were shot during the commission of a crime. Theft is a crime, shooting someone who is committing a crime is not.”
As much as it pains me to say…
Let the POS go.
Save your ammo for the government…
Did I say government?
I meant other movement!
March him a few blocks away, shoot him a few more times after he stops moving, lose the gun in a boating accident on the way home, then STFU. That wasn’t so tough, huh?
Then mortgage your house up and hire a good lawyer. You’ll need at least $250,000 up front for defense of a capital offense. Your main goal should be to get the charges reduced from premeditated murder and avoid the death penalty.
How many times……..
Know the laws of self-defense in your jurisdiction. Don’t “Press-To-Test” the local cops.
“Know the laws of self-defense in your jurisdiction.”
*And* the general attitudes the prosecuting authorities have to armed self-defense where you are.
It can literally mean the difference between “Attaboy, citizen!” and “‘X’ years in the state penitentiary, son!”.
Here’s an example :
“We are going to hunt you down and lock you up if you engage in any criminal conduct,” Judd said. “I would tell them, if you value your life, they probably shouldn’t do that in Polk County. Because the people of Polk County like guns, they have guns, I encourage them to own guns, and they’re going to be in their homes tonight with their guns loaded, and if you try to break into their homes to steal, to set fires, I’m highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns. So, leave the community alone”
“So, leave the community alone”
Since he’s the one that does the arresting, what he says, goes… 🙂
Geoff, looks like great opportunity to “defund the police”
Move their funding to the Sheriff!
Don’t get your legal or technical advice from movies, TV, or senile politicians.
“Don’t get your legal or technical advice from movies, TV, or senile politicians.”
Wait….are you telling me that’s all fake?
Victims more or less can only shoot.when cornered. Advantage perp.
“Victims more or less can only shoot.when cornered.”
That depends where you live, Deborah.
In Florida, if you find someone inside your home un-invited, say, ‘late at night’, it’s gonna be a very bad day for them.
And the worse thing for you will be to decide who does the messy clean-up… 🙂
“And the worse thing for you will be to decide who does the messy clean-up… ”
The one thing that never gets discussed.
“The one thing that never gets discussed.”
Capitalism is a beautiful thing :
“What we do –
Crime Scene Cleanup
Good link to keep; thanx.
If only you have a coin and the number to call as in John Wick. Dinner reservation(s) for ‘x’ number of people. 😁
Dinner reservations for un-invited ‘guests’ :
“One body. No head. “
Song, or recommendation?
And if your Governor appoints a morals-free politician like Angela Corey as Special Prosecutor and orders her to fuck you with a rusty fencepost, you might find that being an honest law abiding is not such a big advantage as you thought it was.
While Florida has an excellent Castle doctrine, it’s still does not allow you to shoot a fleeing criminal.
Even inside your home.
Castle doctrine only gives you the presumption of imminent deadly threat and removes any need to retreat.
It does not allow you to execute fleeing felons inside your house.
“The homeowner gave us some pretty good details- but we want to know a little bit more as to what caused him to fire at the suspect.”
Hate to say it, but this was probably the homeowner’s first mistake. My gun law class instructor was a retired deputy police chief as well as an attorney. His advice was to give your name and personal details, inform them you had been involved in a DGU, and then politely state you will be happy to answer all their other questions as soon as you are able to speak with your attorney.
Ours is an adversarial criminal justice system, and the police are by design agents of the state. What the police officer personally feels is not relevant. He or she may believe it is a justified shoot, might even want to clap you on the back for stopping an attack by a horrible piece of crap. But that officer isn’t going to be – cannot be – your advocate on the stand.
Just my zwei pfennigs, of course.
“Just my zwei pfennigs, of course.”
Our advanced pistol course included some information on the laws of self-defense. The instructor was a retired Sheriff Deputy. Right after telling the class to only give “name, rank, serial number” to the 911 dispatcher, and avoid talking to police without a lawyer, the Deputy said we should also understand that a favorite response given to police at the scene is refusal to speak without a lawyer present. Someone asked why the cops would like that answer, and the Deputy explained that such a response allowed the cops to include “interviewee was uncooperative” in their incident report, and that information brought out at trial created a mountain of suspician on the part of juries.
The ride is the punishment.
While process as punishment is common enough, I can imagine what a good defense lawyer would do with a quote like “interviewee was uncooperative” once he gets the cop on the stand. Even in a non slave state with good cops and decent prosecutors (they are still lawyers after all), you really want self defense insurance to protect you from as much of that process as possible. The less you run your yap the better off you are going to be, that is why they let cops unwind and get some sleep before they interview them.
Confirm this with a lawyer of your choice in your own location if you like:
Yes. Understand all that. Just pointing out that there is know magic talisman that guarantees you won’t suffer for doing “the right thing”.
Big proponent of SD pre-paid legal assistance, and large personal liability umbrella policy.
Wish I could say I was surprised, but I’m not. If a LEO wants to make your life hard, he’s got lots of ways to do it.
My only thought here is, if a particular officer (or department) is willing to stick it to you in his or her report and arrest you for wanting your right to counsel, then this is an officer that would probably also be only too willing to put the worst spin on your responses and/or try to trap you, if it suited them. Roll of the dice either way, I guess. 🙁
“Roll of the dice either way, I guess.”
Isn’t it always?
Too many people seem to think being “righteous” is Kryptonite to being abused and misused by police and prosecutors. If one is to gamble freedom on a roll of the dice, it would seem prudent to know as much about the risks as possible; informed decision, and all that.
Agreed. Good thread!
IMO his first mistake was not saying I invoke my Miranda rights and I want to speak to my attorney during questioning.
Please don’t soil a Constitutional right by calling it that.
Earnesto Miranda was a kidnapper and a rapist.
There’s a lovely irony in the fact that the suspect arrested for killing Miranda in a bar fight exercised his right to remain silent.
Mine recommended not telling 911 that “I shot someone.” That puts you in the “perp” instead of the “victim” box. Say something more like, “Someone broke into my house. We need an ambulance.”
Poor homeowner was just trying to save someone else the trouble of a break-in
Well, that was stupid.
Remember, you have to be a cop to get away with shooting some perp in the back as he runs away, unarmed and not threatening anybody. When one of us “civilians” does that, it is murder.
But if you deflect your shot off of a fire hydrant so that it snaps a tree limb directly over the perp’s head as he is running away, and the limb injures him, you cannot be prosecuted.
LOL! That was good.
The bullet that felled Steinle ricocheted off the pier’s concrete walkway before it struck her. Her father did not the killer off the pier.
Shooting a fleeing felon is attempted murder. The crime is over, there is no lethal threat. BAD SHOOT.
“Shooting a fleeing felon is attempted murder. The crime is over, there is no lethal threat. BAD SHOOT.”
Shooting that fleeing felon was necessary and just since the criminal is fleeing and eluding, and all the while pointing what looked like a gun at you and was ready to shoot, making you really fear for your life. GOOD SHOOT.
Oops…how was I supposed to know it was a phone?
Yeah, some judges will put you in jail for mentioning jury nullification.
You don’t mention it, just do it.
You need 12 votes to convict. I will not be one of them. That is jury nullification at its most basic. See if you can find something to prosecute me for.
Even Sonia Sotomayor has discussed jury nullification back in 2016, so I have no idea where it is that speaking of it in court is a crime.
Some judges, some appeals courts, but not the Michigan Supreme Court.
The process is the punishment for exercising your First Amendment rights, and can take five years, assuming you can find justice in the state court system and don’t have to continue in the federal courts after five years in state courts.
Someone who is an intruder in someone else’s home forfeits any of their rights. The homeowner should be under NO obligation to determine the intruders intent.
“the suspect had jumped a fence and was running.”
So the unarmed, fleeing bad guy wasn’t even on the victim’s property when the shooting occurred?
A plea deal might be this shooters best option.
What’s wrong with “I wasn’t the one who shot him. I think that was the deputy over there.”?
False statements to LE is prosecutable as a crime, unless you are LE yourself.
Nobody wants to jam a cop up for perjury/false statements, that’s a peon only form of punishment.
Where is that insufferable dick sneeze James Campbell?
Biden won so he moved to Zimbabwe or something
He could just do what the police do. “It was dark and he turned toward me and I thought he had a gun. I was in fear for my life so I fired my gun.” Voila! Legal problems solved!
Well he’s screwed in S L O W Joe’s America…meanwhile some of my fakebook fiends er friend’s are saying we should be “good sport’s” about the Dims stealing the Presidency. Golly we ain’t rioting-can’t we be the opposition party?!?😕😕😕😕😕😕
“Resist” is coming. Senate should pass bills they would like and refuse any amendments, go on vacation while waiting for House to approve. Just like the last 4 years. Demonstrate the futility of trusting anything Biden promised. And screech loudly about it, constantly. That’s as “good sport” as I can handle.
Exactly why throw aways are worth so much money.
Not a great idea anywhere, especially in CA.
Castle doctrine ends outside the door in California (People v. Brown 1992). That doesn’t mean a situation can’t develop where a burglar becomes a threat sufficient of deadly force but there’s no presumption. And if you’ve got judges and juries like those in Fresno, boy do you want a presumption of self-defense.
This is where you tell the cops “I had fear for my safety” THEN SHUT THE F—- UP!!!!! Don’t say another word NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY TRY or WHAT THEY SAY or WHAT THREATS THEY ISSUE. NEVER EVER EVER TALK TO THE COPS. They are NOT your friends.
Defund the police!
That way we can bring back the death penalty for many crimes, and these liberal jurisdictions can pound sand after a defensive gun incident, since they won’t have any police to come after us.
“…these liberal jurisdictions can pound sand after a defensive gun incident, since they won’t have any police to come after us.”
You’ll spend unending years of sensitivity re-education at the hands of SJWs, and be required to prove you are safe to be allowed freedom to walk among the public. Don’t undersetimate the hell the caring ones can put you through.
Because they will do it with the approval of their own conscience.
“Because they will do it with the approval of their own conscience.”
For our own good.
People don’t understand the anger of getting robbed and the emotions that you get from a lazy prick on welfare who steals from your hard earned items. That homeowner had every right to defend himself from a piece of shit criminal and a failed system that does not punish criminals who steal from the innocent.
I feel for the homeowner, and I believe he was morally justified. Unfortunately, that’s not how the legal system works. In almost all places, lethal force can only be applied in the immediate defense of yourself or others. Using this guy’s tactics will get you anally raped figuratively (by the legal system) and literally (by your fellow inmates). Once you are no longer endangered, check your ego and let the guy go with your stuff. It isn’t worth the legal bills if you are acquitted, or the jail time if you aren’t.
Pity mofos that don’t live in Texas. Burglars fleeing the scene are fair game for home owners. The way it should be. Cops can’t, but the home owner can.
Calling the cops does fork all amidst ‘defund the police.’ I am afraid that advice is becoming more and more ineffective.
Supply responding officers with, your identifying information, a description, and direction of travel, or location, of the suspect, surrender your weapon, and advise them that you will supply a complete statement AFTER your attorney shows up, then STFU! This is the advise I give everyone, even fellow LEO’s. I spent 20 years as a Firearms Trainer, and my last 14 years supervising Investigations. Anyone involved in a shooting has just been through one of, if not the, most traumatic events in their life. They are in no mental condition to be interviewed. The only reason they should even have their attorney take a statement and release it to the police, is to aid in the investigation. It would be best, if the person who has shot someone, had 24 hours to calm down before being interviewed.
What do you suspect responding officers would be responding to?
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