Gun controllers are scrambling to explain away how a good guy — several, in fact –with a gun stopped a bad guy, to rationalize more restrictions on good guys. The Arizona Republic’s Elvia Díaz is fairly representative of what I’m seeing.
Texas church shooting is about a lot more than Jack Wilson’s heroism
The reality of Wilson’s heroism is a lot more complex. He wasn’t just an ordinary parishioner, as gun advocates may want you to believe. The church’s volunteer security team member is a firearms instructor, gun range owner and former reserve deputy with a local sheriff’s department, according to a New York Times detailed account.
I have news for Ms. Díaz. Jack Wilson’s training and experience isn’t all that rare. At this point, I couldn’t begin to estimate how much training time I have had, nor estimate to the nearest thousand just how many rounds I’ve fired (admittedly, I’ve been slacking off lately without the backyard range I used to have).
In a way, even his obvious heroism isn’t terribly exceptional; several other congregants demonstrably shared it. As do thousands of other Americans, which even the anti-rights Violence Policy center reluctantly admits.
In other words, he’s exactly the kind of man you want around with a firearm. But we know nothing about the at least six other parishioners who also appeared to draw their handguns at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas.
Actually, we do know something about those others who responded: They were not a bunch of irresponsible yahoos who drew their shootin’ irons and shot up the place. In short, they were typical, honest gun owners who chose to go armed.
But have we really reached a point when each of us need to carry a firearm anywhere we go? Gun advocates certainly think so. They point to Wilson and the new Texas law that allows him and others to carry firearms inside the church.
When felons and other who are prohibited from firearm ownership are obtaining firearms and going into churches and other locations to kill people, then yes. We have.
“If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first.”
— Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin
Again, Diaz gets it wrong:
The Second Amendment gives Americans the right to bear arms.
No, it doesn’t; it’s a preexisting right. Just ask the Supreme Court.
Elvia Díaz judges gun owners by her own limitations. What she apparently sees as exceptional is what I call being a decent human being.
The liberal media is just unhappy that the gunowners at the church did not shoot a bunch of civilians.
I know of a preacher who can’t handle alchol so he preaches even drinking one drop of it is a sin. Just because he can not handle it doesn’t mean everyone can not handle it. Why should he try to stack his failures on everyone? Sometimes it seems the most self rightous people are the ones with the most hate in their heart, that is the biggest failure of all in my book. Mr Wilson saved a lot of lifes and that’s a good thing. As for the man wanting to kill innocent people, good wins evil looses for a change. It use to be like that all the time till we got so many self rightous good guys in this country.
And, guess what else? The badguy/shooter was a prohibited person, so the left is scrambling to distract the world from the fact that none of their prohibitions would have done squat to prevent the incident, but would only have served to get more religious gun owners killed. Wait, is that the Left’s real objective? Hmmm?!
Called this a few days ago. The media will latch onto any qualification someone holds to differentiate them from the common rabble, be it former LE experience, owning a gun range (like that means anything) or being an instructor. The goalposts will be moved as far as they need to be.
“But have we really reached a point when each of us need to carry a firearm anywhere we go? Gun advocates certainly think so.”
You don’t have to, but choosing not to do so doesn’t make you safe. Notably, making other people not do so ALSO doesn’t make you safe. In that church not everyone had a gun- but they had the choice to do so, and those that chose ‘yes’ were able to actually act instead of trying to hide behind pews. Anyone remember how that worked in New Zealand?
I’ve been around firearms my entire life. Moved to Scottsdale 21 years ago and only since Trump got elected have felt the need to carry. I canceled my AZ Republic subscription when it endorsed Clinton, not because I was against Clinton but because I don’t want media to endorse political candidates. Don’t get me wrong – we’re big Trump fans and so much appreciate what he has done for this country. But almost 2 million people have come across our southern borders during this time, and many are unskilled, and some are dangerous. Photographs clearly show that people from many other countries, not just Central America, are illegally entering. Folks in border states need to take this church incident as a lesson. I’m not pointing fingers at illegals. There are hundreds of thousands of homeless or mentally ill on our streets, and the political climate has energized them along with illegals to be more aggressive. This guy with the shotgun wanted money but he had enough to buy a shotgun.
“Yeah, where do they get off, saving their own lives like that! Ruined our narrative, would’ve been so much better if he’d killed a bunch more people and just walked out. ” These people just push the definition of stupid to whole new levels!
With all due respect, Dennis, I think the thing that REALLY chaps their @$$es is that:
1. Not just the ‘hero’ (the successful counter-shooter), but at least four other parishioners drew down, WITHIN SIX SECONDS.
2. The ‘hero’ fired ONE shot – a fatal headshot. No “barrage of bullets”.
3. The rest of the armed parishioners maintained good firearm discipline, didn’t being shooting wildly (that ole’ “barrage of bullets”, again), seemed in the video, at least, to be handling their firearms properly and well.
4. Whole event was over in ten seconds, and the only people killed were the perp and the two people he shot.
IOW – the ‘good guys with guns’ DO know what they are doing, CAN act decisively, quickly and effectively, and the whole “barrage of bullets” nonsense is just . . . nonsense. I am a long-time shooter/gun owner. I’ve taken lots of classes to improve my discipline, aim, technique and I’m interested in taking some good tactical classes. I’ve lost count of the number of rounds I’ve put downrange, but it is in the multiple tens of thousands. I looked at that video many times, and I saw nothing (other than the initial shooter/perp) that looked like anything OTHER THAN disciplined, proper gun handling.
And that, and Sulfur Springs, and a number of other similar incidents/results, just blows their narrative apart.`
” . . .The rest of the armed parishioners maintained good firearm discipline, didn’t being shooting wildly (that ole’ “barrage of bullets”, again) . . .” Unlike the countless videos of cops doing mag dumps as a way of demostrating tribal solidarity with their fellow officers. Fortunately, the church congregation’s armed members showed more commendable self-control. Just think what the gun-controllers would be saying if the armed church members had emulated too many cops by doing mag dumps on the downed shooter.
The last thing the left does is admit defeat.
Bingo! What do you think this whole impeachment thing is about. Also, see Stacey Abrams. They’re as bad as the f*#kin’ dot heads that call me 8 times a week wanting to ‘lower my credit card rates’ on the credit card debt I don’t even have. Or the student loan debt I don’t have either. And don’t ever start a business – you’ll have people claiming to be from Google calling you 3 times a week until the end of time. Assholes, every last one of them. Especially the Democrats…
Suzuki, I see.
Kawasaki Versys here
Triumph Speed Triple here.
Beemer R1200GS here
08 Electraglide Ultra Classic
74 Ironhead (1000 cc stroker) w/Sputhe cases in a Paughco hardtail frame…. Old School chopper style..
Kawasaki Concours ZG1000
1999 – now an antique.
Sounds like they want to make sure everyone is trained before they can get a gun. So they want NRA instructors like Jack Wilson and Stephen Willeford teaching in high schools and universities? It’s for public safety, right?
If they really gave a shit about public safety they’d be promoting gun safety in elementary schools like it was sex education.
In the 1970s it was Tom Ammiano a proud gay white man who destroyed the 2A education programs and rifle teams in the San Francisco public school system. And replaced them with the natons first “model” sex education program.
Years later he wrote the law making rape victims and everyone else wait an extra 10 days to get a gun in California.
Sounds like a real douche.
Considering there are more guns than people in this country, the left should just accept reality. There’s no reason why grade schoolers shouldn’t learn ‘don’t touch – get an adult’. And considering that often the ‘adult’ turns out to be a 13 year old, there’s no reason junior high students shouldn’t learn how to clear most common weapons and make them safe until an actual adult can dispose of the weapon properly. But then dead children are a political asset to these assholes, so why would they want them to be educated?
To the guv… the most important lesson my children have learned besides the 4 rules is when presented with a firearm without an adult present is to take control of it and disarm. They trained on every conceivable type before they were allowed to shoot. Made my life easier when plinking with cheap .22lr, they were checking and clearing, reseating mags without my input. I know they make everyone around them safer just knowing this alone. That is real firearm safety. I would trust their expertise over a quack “journalist” every day of the week. While they haven’t experienced violence yet, i remind them that its not if, its alway when. Be prepared and carry every where you can.
This is the argument that David Correa fights all the time. It’s called the only ones argument.. Only authorized agents of the government should be permitted to carry guns.
Have seen movies depicting the “Only authorized agents of the government should be permitted to carry guns.” Schindler’s List; The Killing Fields; Hotel Rwanda, et el……… The Elitists’ Utopia.
Armed citizens are essential to deter crime.
When criminals perceive that their victims are defenseless and helpless, they will savage them to their maximum opportunity.
If criminals know that there are unidentified and unidentifiable overwhelming threats to their predation, they will move on to seek greener pastures, hopefully legal activities and opportunities.
The advantage of concealed carry is that you are perceived as neither a threat nor a target.
Unfortunately, in this environment, there are those who view open carry as a threat or as a target to rob and even to eliminate.
Especially when we are not physically able to defend ourselves, and are increasingly perceived as an easy target by and for criminal predators, we need the security afforded only by a firearm.
Training in defensive gun use, combat pistol shooting, three gun shooting is all a very good idea. Allow a $2500 a year tax credit for it. Watch me sign up!!!!!
Sounds good to me.
I’m 100% on board.
This country needs to start taking the “well regulated militia” part of the Second Amendment seriously, and a tax credit for firearms training would be a good start.
Miss Diaz has no clue of what then hell she is talking about.
Next step for gun controllers is to ban religious services.
There are quite a few steps before we get there. Eliminate tax exempt status for religious organizations, something they are working on. More regulation of parochial schools. Elimination of public praying and more regulation of churches through building codes and the like. Force them to fund abortions, something they have been doing. Banning religious services? Working on it.
“Eliminate tax exempt status for religious organizations, something they are working on.”
Great idea, let’s hope this becomes a reality.
If you want police protection for your patrons and facilities or fire protection for your buildings, you should pay your taxes like every other citizen in order to cover the cost of these services.
I’m not a regular church go’er but I’m pretty sure the argument could be made that those who are, generally qualify as solid tax paying citizens. Probably way more than most demographic groups. And they burden they place on the tax structure is probably far less. Are you suggesting that they don’t deserve protection in church or that they aren’t already paying for it?
Churches aren’t ‘granted’ tax exempt status. The first amendment restricts the government from interfering in religious activity in much the same way the second restricts them from ‘infringing’ on the right to bare arms. That’s the only reason churches aren’t taxed. If they can squeeze past the 1st to tax churches be sure they will squeeze right past the 2nd as well. We need to protect all of the Bill of Rights
“Churches aren’t ‘granted’ tax exempt status.”
Really? So just how much property tax do you think churchs pay for their hundreds of millions of dollars of buildings, facilities, camps, etc.?
I pay taxes, income, payroll, real estate, property, sales, etc.
Churches pay none of those taxes, yet still expect police protection, judicial protection for everything from embezzlement to burglary, fire protection, etc.
Why should an atheist or a person of a different religion be expected to pay a share of the police protection, fire protection, etc. for another religions properties and facilities?
The mosque in my city pays no property taxes, yet I must pay your share of their police protection, which is significant because there are often threats against the congregation.
I am not a Catholic, but I am expected to pay a share of the police and fire protection for their hundreds of millions of dollars worth of facilities, property, and buildings in my state.
I could be a liar like they are and start my own fantasy religion, claiming to offer immortal salvation with no evidence whatsoever, and get a tax break on all my property and income.
But unlike most religionists, I am not willing to lie to my fellow humans.
Pretty nifty that he used a 357 Sig though.
Would have been niftier yet if he used the magnum.
I’ve been considering one. I’d be interested in people’s views on it.
Ms. Díaz is sad that AZ isn’t as safe as Mexico.
The more cities/states decriminalize stuff the more you will NEED personal protection, a prime example would be Tiffany Harris, arrested in NYC for assaulting three Jewish women (punched them in the face) she was released no bail and two days later she committed a similar assault for which she was again arrested and once again released no bond, she then proceeded to commit a third assault on New Years Eve for which she was again arrested and this time she was held… Thankfully she did not escalate her attacks with a weapon and fortunately no one was killed. This can only happen with the governments blessing, disarm the citizens and then embolden the criminals, a perfect recipie for disaster…. NY has also removed crimes like CHILD PORNOGRAPHY, 3rd degree rape, stalking, burglary, arson, prostitution,, aggravated vehicular assault, robbery less than $750.00, possessing a weapon in school and some drug offenses as well as assault (and don’t forget the ever popular post partum abortion) from the list of crimes requiring bail and pretrial detention… But, don’t get caught minding your own business carrying a concealled weapon…. I hope Ms. Harris and those like her understand that there are people outside of NY/NYC who still have the means, the ability and the will to ensure that this deranged mind set does not infringe upon our personal rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness…
Yeah we are expecting to see a wild new year in areas of Troy, Albany, and Schenectady. Don’t know enough about Syracuse or Buffalo to guess but pretty sure we have a few commenters out that way.
Thank you but honestly this latest agenda item is a bit more concerning https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-unveils-18th-proposal-2020-state-state-banning-untraceable-ghost-guns-requiring
It’s just another day in the neighborhood… Conservatives need a new ground game in the NE and out West, a few little changes on the coasts could change everything across the country for the better.. Hopefully folks will use their heads and work to get rid of the wanna be Dictators the right way and create an environment where people want to stay instead of running to other “friendlier” states and screwing them up.. Again I wish you luck…
To the Liberals 2+2=5 when it comes to gun civil rights.
That is what makes them so dangerous. They will make sure the weak are defenseless. Which makes Liberals and the Left the cruelest of people.
OK. Cue the Troll.
We get it, Hunt. You don’t like Vlad. Or Miner. Or OtherAdventures…or whatever. You don’t like trolls.
But your profile has become like a political party that presents no ideas or leadership, and only says “no!” to anything the other side does. The Party Of No.
Instead of just typing in the word “troll” everywhere, maybe use your noggin and try to actually come up with comments that contribute to the conversations. Otherwise, you’re just a troll groupie.
You haven’t really been paying attention. You are missed a few things.
“I are missed a few things?”
Maybe you don’t write much because Amerikan Engrish is just too hard.
YO! DIAZ! many of us have much training. I used to carry a gun on the job as a civilian and would not have done so without training and practice as well as mentally running through scenarios that would be virtually impossible to practice. Don’t hurt yourself trying figure out what those could be. You wouldn’t understand even if I explained them to you. Whose words would have stopped this guy. If he had no gun he could have played MS13 like the anti-Semite in NYC and chopped people up. Words wouldn’t have stopped hi either and you can be a felon and own a machete. Your logic stinks, bad enough that I would hesitate letting you into a voting booth but since I can’t do that all I can do is pray.
I myself am actually taking my next professional training course in a couple of weeks. Another 30+ hours of training. Do this two or three times per year, in addition to all the personal range time.
A lot of people get tripped up in the difference between “it gives you the right” and “it protects your rights from the government.”
What people need to understand about journalists is that they’re fully subscribed to the “cult of experts.” The ground rules for membership in this cult is that you have to have the correct credentials in order to do a job.
So, you see such nonsense as a person cannot be a reporter if they don’t have a J-school degree. Never mind all the reporters of 100 years ago, before there were J-school degrees.
Likewise here, they believe that a person cannot handle a gun competently unless they’re part of the “cult of expertise.” This means you have to have a credential – and those credentials are topped by being part of a federal three-letter agency, followed by a big city police department, followed by a state-level law agency, etc.
A civilian who can shoot High Master with a pistol can probably outshoot most cops and most military members with a handgun, but this classification and credential, while recognized in the sphere of shooting, comes from the NRA, and therefore means nothing to journalists.
In the era of Trump, Trump’s voters are attacking the cult of experts from all sides. Journalists see their world, their very epistemology, under attack from all sides – and they’re not happy about this.
I couldn’t agree more. I serve (not looking for any thanks, I’m just a regular guy). I can tell you definitively that I get more and better training with casual trips to the range using my collection than with every other year qualification through the Air Force. I hope I’m never in a defensive gun use scenario and I really hope that if I am, my service is never brought up as justification for why I should be the exception to carry.
I shooted my TV years ago. Best accidental discharge I ever had.
I would suggest Diaz not attend church in AZ.
“Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back.”
— Malcolm Reynolds