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Gun safe? (courtesy

According to the infrequently firearms-related, Enservio is “a provider of software and services across the entire value chain of contents claims processing.” Claims related to guns, ammo and gun gear account for 10 percent of the $2b claims the company processes each year. Enservio’s bean counters counted the ballistic beans; the statistical results don’t say much about gun owners’ honesty. In fact, Enservio reckons that firearms and ammunition are commonly overvalued in insurance claims by . . .

 more than 50 percent to 126 percent respectively. Specifically . . .

– Handguns: Average policyholder claims $285; actual cash value is $186
– Rifles: Average policyholder claims $291; actual cash value is $186
– Rifle Ammunition: Average policyholder claims $104; actual cash value is $46
– Rifle Magazines: Average policyholder claims $36; actual cash value is $10
– Shotgun scopes: Average policyholder claims $62; actual cash value is $31

Enservio Senior Contents Consultant Chad Horlbogen, a man who claims 26 years of advanced firearms experience and tactical weaponry training (?), was kind enough to provide the journal with some non-criminal, non-greed-oriented excuses for customers’ claims inflation.

“Americans love their guns, but valuing them can be difficult. Being a specialty item, firearms have unique characteristics that claim pros need to know about in order to fairly reimburse or replace these items correctly.”

A common perception held by policyholders is that guns depreciate very little and are worth more than what they paid for them–in some cases, more than retail value. One reason for this thinking is due to the fact that they are constructed of solid, lasting materials.

“Many people believe that all guns appreciate in value. They are often passed down between generations, and considered a member of the family,” added Horlbogen.

State and federal restrictions placed on purchasing guns can also amplify their perceived values.

So it’s all an honest mistake, really. Or not.

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    • More to the point:
      1) what tis the overvaluing of household goods other than guns? My brother in law had fire and water damage in his home and his furniture was replaced new.
      2. What is the secondary market for guns the used prices are set at from? I can go to cabalas and see beat to heck p226s that were owned by cops and are in terrible shape compared to same age P226s I own

      • The premium paid by policyholders is calculated based on whether the policy pays replacement value or actual cash value. Contents, in my experience, typically are insured at replacement value (homes too).

        So your brother’s stuff itself may have depreciated, but he was paying a premium based not on its value but on the cost of replacing it new.

        By the way, I wonder if the Enservio report is misleading. The claim value, being based on replacement cost, can be expected to be higher than Actual Cash Value. So of course the claim would be higher, and no dishonesty would be involved.

        Disclaimer: I’m not an insurance pro, but I do take the time to read and understand my policy.

  1. How do you put a cash value on a beloved family member? Of course in your moment of grief and loss you’ll err a little on the side of too much value. Sentiment means something.

    • Agreed. All my metal children have significant sentimental value to me. That and in this state, as of the first of the year, replacement value will go up for nearly all of them. Stupid roster.

    • Something wrong here. I just bought a handgun, $459 before taxes. Where is it I could have gotten it for $186? Sounds like made-up numbers to me. Around 15 years ago I sold a 30-year-old Python which needed a new barrel to a dealer at a gun show for $600, where did $186 come from?

  2. I don’t own any firearms, magazines, or ammunition as inexpensive as what they listed. Since when is the average price of rifles and handguns $186? Either I don’t understand the story or the insurance company is the real crook here.

      • Ditto. Do these adjustors ever go to a gun store, show, or pawn shop?
        I’d like to know where I can pick up some of these $186.00 Garands, M1Carbines, 1911’s, GLOCKs, Mod.29 Smiths, and Deagles.

        • I have a list of all the firearms along with their S/N’s and the amount of money I paid for them on an encrypted cloud back up. Hopefully after a catastrophic has passed and the insurance adjuster is picking up the pieces I’ll be able to provide evidence on the value of m firearms. BTW for future purchases I am going to start scanning all my receipts and add it to the file.

    • I have magazines that are close to that price (AICS 10-round .308 $85 each) and a holster that costs more than that (Double Alpha Race Master).
      My least expensive gun is probably a Ruger 10/22. With the Tech Sights and Volquartsen trigger pack, it’s still probably at least $500 to replace.

    • My spreadsheet with the actual values is on a different computer, but I am going to guess and say that my average handgun is north of $400 and my average long gun, even including the 10/22 and a servicable but not fancy 870, is well north of $1000.

    • Agreed.

      A $186 rifle??!!

      A $31 shotgun scope???

      Typical insurance company lies. All the talking PR bobble head (Chad Horlbogen) needs to do is go to gunbroker and he’ll see what they are valued at. Ridiculous PR man and company. Who of us can say that a $99 Russian SKS that we bought years ago has depreciated?? Total pack of insurance company lies. Thanks for the heads up TTAG – I’ll steer clear of this company.

  3. Can anyone say “sampling bias”?

    Seriously, the same pistol I can buy here at a department store for $500 might sell in California for 30% more. The harder it is to legally acquire a gun, the higher the prices go. Which means the value of my collection must be valued by a totally different metric then a gun owner in NYS, or California.

    If a Boston resident tried to sell his 4th Gen Glock here for what it would sell for in MA, he’d be laughed off the gun show property.

    • Absolutely. Off roster handguns without mag disconnect, LCI and whatnot will become far more valuable in California in 11 days. Semi-scrupled LEO’s could make a mint as they can still purchase any handgun and have imported for their purchase non-rostered handguns. If I had more money, I’d have doubled down on a few of mine.

      • A garbage Mosin, a garbage Mauser, maybe a decent single-shot shottie.

        I have several Mausers, every collector that sees them offers me north of $600 per. One gets offers north of $1K. I have a few Mosins, also none of which can be bought from me, or on the open market, for anything less than $500 per – and that would be a liquidation price. I have a friend with a decent little collection of Mosins (~100 uniques), good luck trying to duplicate it for $350 per gun. A few will cost you $1K+, if you can even find them.

        You can probably get a decent quality single-shot shottie for that money, though I would save my pennies and get a rough Remington Model 11 (which is a Remmie Browning A5) for around $250-275.

    • and your entire rifle ammo collection worth only $45? I own a 5.45×39, a 7.62x54r and a 9mm carbine and .22 carbine. These are not expensive guns to feed, not by any standards, but replacement cost for the ammo I have for them is at LEAST $400, and i wouldnt sell it if someone offered $1000 for it cause lots of it is .22 and very hard to replace.

      IMO this is a study, cooked up by a insurance company to stop paying out as much, because money. I bet i could commission a study to report that .22 is cheap, available and not in short supply anywhere, specially if i paid them in boxes of .22.

  4. If you claim too little, that’s what they’ll pay. The insurance company isn’t going out of their way to pay you more. If you claim too much, they’ll supposedly pay you a fair value. Why should the gun owner short himself from the beginning?

    Also, how does this compare to everyone else out there that claims too much? Let’s compare gun owners to owners of other valuables, rather than just throwing the information out there on gun owners.

  5. Insurance companies are generally in the business of billing customers for policies and doing whatever they can to deny claims. They’re not in business to PAY claims, they only do so when they absolutely have to. So excuse me if I do not trust Enservio’s judgement on the value of anything.

  6. “– Rifle Magazines: Average policyholder claims $36; actual cash value is $10
    – Shotgun scopes: Average policyholder claims $62; actual cash value is $31”

    An average magazine for $10 (meaning, given a Gaussian distribution, $6 – $17), and average value of scopes of $31? – I would say that the insurance industry is discounting guns and related items as it does cars. I suppose that they get away with it because there’s no practical way to successfully argue otherwise. The range on guns and ammo could be widespread, so difficult to judge based on this limited data, but the last two items seem to indicate a trend.

  7. “– Handguns: Average policyholder claims $285; actual cash value is $186
    – Rifles: Average policyholder claims $291; actual cash value is $186”
    What pistol or rifle are going for that low of a price?!? It’s hard to find a 10-22 for that price, and any reliable carry gun is going to cost twice that pistol price.

    “– Rifle Ammunition: Average policyholder claims $104; actual cash value is $46
    – Rifle Magazines: Average policyholder claims $36; actual cash value is $10”
    Ammo prices skyrocketed and are just coming down, and good luck finding a 500 box of .22 for the “retail” price of $25. Self defense ammo is still $30 for a box of 20.

    “– Shotgun scopes: Average policyholder claims $62; actual cash value is $31”
    Optics are expensive, the rule of thumb is spend the same on the optics as you did the rifle, I’m not sure if shotguns are that different, but $31 is CHEAP.

    Point being, these cash values are way low. Any one owning this stuff would have been better off to sell it and wouldn’t have had to deal with headache.

    • the real culprit–your insurance policy–It must read RC Replacement Cost not Actual Cash Value–ACV

      If you have ACV you have just depreciated everything you own starting at 6 months old-So when the article DEFINITELY MISLEADING TERMINOLOGY-when it says Actual Cash Value–for the AVERAGE person means that they are including depreciation on everything regardless of other conditions. And that runs down to $0.00

      Enservios article is misleading and self serving.

      Check YOUR policy-read it and then either cry, replace it ,or smile–depending on your coverage!

  8. Family friend had a house fire in a newly built home of his. He was also a small-time FFL. Had two insane safes that failed due to the expanse and duration of the fire (Closest fire truck was 30 miles away). Gas line or something blew.

    They lost everything. He had about $80k of firearms, well documented too. Many historically irreplaceable, many of them family heirlooms, and a few firearms held for friends who were overseas (His safes were pretty legit.)

    He never gave a direct number of what he got back, but he said it was more than half and less than 3/4 of their actual valuation. 🙁

    A Mossberg 590 was the only thing that survived. Little rusty now, but he keeps it as a secondary truck gun 😛

  9. When will they be opening a gun store in my area. I will take a couple of rifles and pistols at $186. My aunt and uncle had a house burn down and their insurance said they would pay for one rifle, shotgun, and pistol. Luckily it was a total loss so they just put down a price in each category so they got it to even out. This is why I decided to go with a insurance rider for just firearms. Very little questions asked. I set the amount I thought would cover everything. They gave me a monthly price. They are happy and I rest better at night.

  10. I have a “floater” on my policy (Farmers) which covers my weapons anywhere in the world for theft and mysterious disappearance. If my house burns down, they are covered under the homeowners.
    Mainly, I wanted to protect my black scary rifle as the value is getting up around $2,500 just for that one weapon and when I travel south, I generally take that with me.

  11. From the article:
    – Handguns: Average policyholder claims $285; actual cash value is $186
    – Rifles: Average policyholder claims $291; actual cash value is $186

    I rarely see a used handgun or rifle selling for less than $250 and I have never seen a used handgun or rifle selling for less than $186 unless it is total junk. And I have seen plenty of used handguns and rifles sell for $500 or more. Methinks these insurance people are dishonest.

  12. ‘A common perception held by policyholders is that guns depreciate very little and are worth more than what they paid for them–in some cases, more than retail value.’

    I find this to be true every time I search for something on GunBroker. Everyone seems to want more from their used firearm than it costs to buy a brand new one.

    • I’ve noticed this too – sellers seem to think they have a “right” to earn a profit on a gun they bought new. I see very few modern firearms actually selling for more than maybe 80% of the MSRP.

      The exception is rare, discontinued, or historically relevant guns. I saw a LNIB nickel Beretta 84 sell for $850 a few weeks ago. Colt revolvers in good condition sell for thousands.

      • yeah backpage is a joke out here in Phoenix. been so since Newtown. Its basically become a flea market. 1 good deal buried in 1,000 bad ones.

        i’d say i find a good deal once every three months or so and if its something i want i’ll jump on it.

      • Yes, anything in near new condition that isn’t in production anymore has an enhanced value. Last summer I sold a used Ruger P95 with only a few hundred rounds through on a penny auction and actually got more than I paid for it new (not counting shipping and transfer fee). This was however several months after Ruger discontinued the P95. The P95 was Ruger’s budget auto, and after I sold it I had a moment of doubt as to whether I did the right thing, but my wife wanted a Beretta PX4 Storm subcompact and money doesn’t grow on trees after all. But it never ceases to astound me how I run a search for a particular firearm looking mostly for a new product and all these people are trying to sell their used guns for well above the bottom dollar on identical NIB items. Of course there’s always plenty of people thinking their going to get MSRP +10% on new guns when there’s dozens of items available for hundreds of dollars less. I guess their just not serious about selling.

        • I actually remember somebody posting on a gun forum (can’t remember which one) asking for advice on Gunbroker auctions because nobody was making a “fair” offer that would let him break even on his gun… which he was offering at above MSRP to cover the cost of the Gunbroker fees.

          It’s hard to figure out FMV on a discontinued gun. I paid well above MSRP on my CZ-83 Satin Nickel, and think I got a good deal on it because of the rarity and the condition. But from an insurer’s perspective, used CZ-83’s sell for a max $250.

        • You can buy just about anything on GunBroker, so your best bet is just to be patient, put a lot of items on your watch list and see what items are actually selling for as opposed to what idiots think their sh!t is worth. Just bear in mind that at any auction there is always a ton of people looking for bargains and a ton of people thinking their going to way more than what their stuff is worth.

          Personally if I’m serious about buying something I’ll take the best deal I can get, otherwise I’m just bargain shopping. It’s a little easier when shopping for a new firearm though.

    • Yes, there is a huge difference between asking price and actual resell (aka cash) value. From what I see, about 90% of Gunbroker’s listings never get a bid above reserve. People have funny ideas about what their gun is worth. It’s not based on its new retail price.

      • There are a lot of people out there that aren’t at all serious about selling their firearms. I guess it’s do to wishful thinking, but it seems like a waste of time to me.

        The other thing I see a lot is people overpaying on penny auctions. There will be several of a particular firearm being offered for say $500 and someone will bid a penny auction up to $550. It makes even less sense when you realize it takes 2 people to run a bid up. Always check around before bidding. Seems obvious to me.

    • Dunno what’s wrong with that. I bought my lady a .25 Beretta when she was 18, in 1965, for $60. Sold the POS sometime in the ’80s at a gun show, just trying to get rid of it, took the first offer, of $180. Bought a used Python in 1969, by the time I had it rebarreled I had around $120 in it. Shot the barrel out, during the next 30 years, then sold it at a gun show (I had another, which was essentially new although I’d owned it for 30 years) for the first offer, $600. And new Pythons were still available at the time. What makes you think gun values don’t increase? That was one really fine gun and one POS, both several hundred percent increase.

      • Some firearms do increase in value. Most don’t (at least relative to inflation). If a firearm is out of production or if the new model has flaws (features) the older ones didn’t like the new S&W revolvers have internal locks that many buyers would rather not have, then yes, you might get lucky when selling. But when you’re looking at a ‘like new’ gun that’s a year old for just as much or more as the exact same thing only actually new, I can’t see why anyone would opt for the used one. IMHO if you buy a gun and run a box of ammo through it you should expect the value to be 15-20% lower than what you paid. Of course if you hold onto it for long enough you may even beat inflation on your investment. All depends.

  13. Put me down as another skeptic. Those numbers are ridiculously low, unless the only claims they handle are for Mosins and HiPoints. Otherwise, I suspect that their idea of “actual cash value” what the most skinflint pawnshop owner in town will pay the week before Christmas.

  14. $46 for ammo?

    Lol.. wut?

    That’s one (1) brick of 22.

    // fail

    I suppose offering $186 for a $550 + tax Glock is *one* way to find out if the owner still has any surviving guns and ammo..

    If they do, they’ll certainly show them to you (and demonstate their effectiveness!) after getting a settlement offer like that.

  15. In what world do you tell the insurance company what a gun is worth, unless it is old or rare? A modern gun has a specific value. I’ve had guns stolen. My insurance agent told me guns depreciate very little, and gave me 90% of retail. They set the payout price. But with the deductible I still lost.

    • The numbers they are quoting look suspiciously like the numbers you would see in the Orion Blue Book values, like what the pawn shops use to “value” items.

      That $186 pistol? What he *might* pay you for it…, likely a lot less.

  16. At the values that you have listed the values are not even close to what it would cost to replace most items. That’s like telling the insured okay you paid 50,000.00 last month for that truck and now that it was a total loss its value is now 250.00 but thank you for paying your premium on you full value. Have a nice day.
    Sorry but I don’t think so. A 8 round magizine for my Welther PPS is 80.00 and if it were stolen or lost in fire I’m not letting the ins. Co. Pay 10.00 due to depreciation. This is why I have all paperwork in a fire safe. Very tired of getting it in the but from ins. Cos. while they post record profits. Ins. Cos. don’t take risks they price themselves high but if you have a claim your dropped. You question if gun owners that insure THIER guns are crooks ? We had a Ruger .44 Mag Supper Blackhawk 3 screw in mint condition along with 2 other handguns in a safe that was also taken the Ruger was A 5 didget starting with 14 in original box with original sales receipt gun new was 115.00 almost 50 years ago I did replace it with another but first 2 were 25 also all original box and sales receipt. The ins. Only paid 200.00 for stolen gun and cost me almost 1200.00 to replace it with a newer one in year and about 11000 made inbetween. Do you think that I was screwed or did I screw the ins co. ? You can’t take all your firearms to be appraised every year you would never recover what it cost to have that done just Incase somethin were to happen. I don’t know anyone that has been paid anything close to what they lost when it comes to firearms. Whoever came up with those values you listed is an ass.

    • That’s what I was thinking but it it states average which means there were a guns valued a lot lower… I’ve been overpaying if that’s even slightly true. This study might indeed say something about the honesty of one party involved. Let me give you a hint it’s not the gun owners that come away from this smelling like the pier.

  17. I lost my everything in a tornado last year. My safe was recovered and the guns for the most part were fine. All my ammo several thousand rounds was spread across the neighborhood. My insurance company never rejected any of my claims and based all ammo off of current market value. I was told since there was nothing of my house left they would not deny a claim until I hit my maximum insured value. My adjuster told me I had an excellent plan.

    • You post something like that, and not tell us who was talking care of you?


      If there’s an insurance company out there that isn’t screwing gun owners over, I want to know who it is.

  18. Anyone who has ever had a claim knows that insurance companies steal more than the Mafia. Then again, insurance companies have a license to steal.

    • The goal of any insurance company is to charge as much premium as the market will bear (or they can convince the insured to pay) and to discourage, in fact often hinder, the payout of claims dollars. So of course any advocate for insurers is going project low valuations for property that is or could be subject of a claim.

      Insurers are not in business to ‘help’ you unless they absolutely must by contract or because it will cost them more $$ in the long run not to pay out than if they do.

      • To be fair, it’s similar to how the government operates. Ask (or force) for as much money as they can get, but limit the amount or services rendered. Anyone that has experience with Military healthcare or VA probable have a story or two. I have had experienced when I was denied certain medication or service, because of some government employee’s decision.

  19. The mags for my VZ-52 rifle are typically 75-80 bucks when they appear on gun broker.
    One box of .416 Rigby ammo? About $150.

  20. Only the magazine cash value makes sense, there are 30 round AR-15 magazines that can be had for that, average is around $15-$17 for MagPul.
    Don’t know if my homeowners insurance would cover loss or theft, do NOT want to tell the insurance company I have guns. My NRA membership has $2500 coverage on my rifles and handguns.
    That $186 for a rifle is about what my Mosin Nagant with scope is worth.
    Shotgun- $200
    AR-15 with Nikon Scope and bipod – $900
    9mm. handgun – About $450
    Replacement cost.

  21. We talking about someone taking out a policy specifically including a set of firearms, and therefore paying a premium on their stated value (over or not) or someone who has a general policy who then makes a claim that is inaccurate?

  22. There is NO such thing as a “actual cash value”

    Price is subjectively determined by multitudes of human interactions, but in blunt terms, it’s what the market is willing to pay, NOT what insurance company arbitrarily claims it is.

    Besides, the insurance companies have their own algorithms to determine ‘value’ of x, y, z, based solely on their needs & set criteria, like a political push-poll, which frankly, everyone BUT those in-case-shit industry & its personnel would delude to make ‘sense.’

    Like govt, assume all insurance co & its employees to be lying, exaggerating, until proven/verified 100% otherwise: it’s a ‘safe’ default historically proven apriori position to take, IMHO. xD

  23. I had two handguns and a rifle stolen last year, and it made me want to scream at the insurance company. I called the adjuster already in a terrible mood after losing a rifle I was given when I was 12 and planned on giving to my son. It went something like this:

    Adjuster: “So it looks like your firearms coverage is capped at $2000 for your policy, which we will pay out of after your deductible”

    My car had been broken into and these items were the only things stolen other than a backpack full of misc items. So basically 95% of the claim would be firearms.

    Me: “ok fine, so whats my deductible?”

    Adjuster: “Well it looks like it is 1% of your total loss value of your policy so $1900 sir”

    Me: “So let me get this straight, assuming that I even had +2k of firearms stolen that means theoretically I may get $100 back? ” (at this point I am nearly in tears, I was already pretty emotional losing the rifle and then this just pushed me over the edge because it was 2 month before hunting season and I was in no way going to be able to scrounge up enough cash to replace it in time to hunt).

    Adjuster: (after a long uncomfortable pause) “well we dont typically talk numbers until the claimant fills out a loss list, but yes any payouts would be applied to the deductible before being disbursed”

    Me: (again really losing it at this point) “wow, so I just got robbed and what you are telling me is that I am basically being robbed a second time by my insurance company?”

    Adjuster: “like I said, can I get your email address so that we can send you our loss worksheet?”

    At that point I was beyond being in the mood to talk so I gave him my email and then immediately called the local agent I worked through when I got the policy and let her know what I thought about all of it. It was especially infuriating because I had asked about policy riders for firearms and she had assured me that the policy covered up to 2k in firearms, and we went around in circles (I only had about 2100 in firearms at the time) about deductibles and scenarios etc etc and she never took the opportunity to sell me the rider policy which I would have happily bought. So I made it very clear to her that I felt misled and that she had missed multiple opportunities to up-sell me and yet had assured me over and over again that 2k was 2k and that it really wasn’t necessary unless I bought more firearms (which I did so that part was on me). Well, message was received loud and clear and about a week later they called back and had at least let me claim the full value of the firearms (loss ended up being closer to 2800 as my collection had grown and they were actually pretty reasonable with the pricing of the items) that coupled with the other miscelaneous items that the goons got out of the truck in their smash and grab which actually added up to a decent amount meant I came out at about 60% of the value claimed which was better than nothing but it was a nightmare and involved way more work on my part than you would think is reasonable.

    So, lesson learned, get a rider policy even if you dont have near the minimums of your policy, or be ready to fight tooth and nail for what is yours. That and buy through a local agent, that seems so crazy in times like now where everything is done over the internet, but without my local agent I probably would have spent a lot of time talking on the phone to no result. She gave me the leverage I needed because at the end of the day, it was on her head if I walked out the door to another provider. Some kid at a 24hr call center couldnt care less what I do, its not like he/she sold me the policy so they can sit there and parrot company policy and tell me to FOAD for all they care.

  24. That sounds like bunk to me. 🙁 Thankfully, the last time I had to deal with a loss by theft, my insurance reimbursed me the replacement value, not some fictional ‘depreciated’ figure they pulled from the fundament of one of their senior VPs.

  25. Missing from this discussion is an understanding as to the difference between actual cash value (ACV) and replacement cost. ACV is not determined by the market, but rather by the original value of the item minus depreciation. Replacement cost, by contrast, is market value of a like kind and quality item. Under the typical homeowner’s insurance policy, the insurer only pays ACV, and if you have a replacement cost rider, only for ACV until there is an actual replacement. So what this article reflects is that when there is a loss people will go look up what it will cost to replace an item and list that amount on their inventory. This is not to say that the industry is really accurately determining the depreciation of items, like ammo, that do not devalue for decades, or firearms which may not lose value until the arm is no longer functional. On the other hand, I paid more for a new XD9 a decade ago that what they are selling for now.

    • Sorry- I still call B.S., even $285 is probably below ACV, much less $186 for the average handgun. Maybe for my POS .22 Beretta but not for the average handgun.

    • So what happens with items that do not depreciate or even appreciate? Let’s say you have a slab of gold in your safe and it gets stolen; do you get today’s value or what you paid for it in 1980?

  26. If have, or shopping for, insurance ensure these crooks are not invoived! You won’t know how good your insurance co is until you have a claim.

  27. So, this insurance company wants to say that say, a scoped AR is valued at $186+$31+$10, for the rifle, scope and magazine. $227, with optics. Right. Gotcha.

    • Tell you what –

      As an experiment, grab one of your ARs set up like you mentioned, walk into a pawn shop and ask what they would pay you for it.

      The data he quoted looks suspiciously like Orion Blue Book numbers, wholesale.

      I do know pawn shops use ’em, having worked them in the past, and I’ve seen them in insurance company offices as well.

      Doesn’t make it right or nice, but it does look like it.

  28. “– Handguns: Average policyholder claims $285; actual cash value is $186
    – Rifles: Average policyholder claims $291; actual cash value is $186”

    If any of these guys have any rifles or handguns they are interested in unloading, I’m interested in taking a look. As I say to the Backpagers, I’m a legal cash buyer and don’t play games.

  29. In a past life I sold insurance. If you want a claim paid document document document. Serial numbers, digital photos and a paper trail. No sub standard policy. Or s#it company. Or get specialized coverage. Yeah those numbers were ABSURD 🙂

  30. “Enservio reckons that firearms and ammunition are commonly overvalued in insurance claims by . . .

    more than 50 percent to 126 percent respectively”

    So what? Insurance is supposed to pay for the cost to replace the thing and make whole, not the damn depreciated wholesale liquidation value.

    Fuck these guys.

  31. A few years ago, I bought a used Norinco 1911 at my local Gander Mountain for less than $300. When I got it home, I stripped it down, set aside the slide and frame and threw everything else in the garbage. I then went online and ordered all the internal and external parts I needed to rebuild it. Most of the internal and external controls I bought were the top end parts (Hardcore) from Ed Brown. The barrel is a Kart. The guide rod, made of tungsten, is from Wilson Combat. Throw in a set of tritium night sights, a set of grips custom made out of desert ironwood and the cost for bluing and I have a lot of dollars (around $1,800) invested in the pistol. If it were to be stolen or whatever, how much do you think my insurance company would reimburse me for a “used” Norinco? Exactly.

    • My point being, I guess, is that if I suffered an insurance loss of the pistol and filed a claim of $2000, the insurance industry would call me a “fraud” even though my stated loss would be accurate.

    • Same thing happens if you get all “Fast and Furious” with your Toyota. If you total it, unless you have special coverage, you’re going to get paid for a $10,000 Toyota, not a $30,000 performance car.

  32. When I was a police officer and there was a car break-in reported on a street, it was amazing once the neighborhood found out how many people keep large amounts of cash in their cars

  33. It also seems that they value the guns on average. I have 6 Mosin Nagants. Two of which are Chinese Type 53s that are worth around $100 in my area today’s market. I have two 91/30s, both of which are rarer than average because of the markings, years, and manufacturing, They’re worth about $200 in this area and market. I also have a Romanian all matching m44 in great shape, which is worth about $250-300, and last but not least a 91/59, which is worth about $400.

    My point is that depending on the insurance adjuster they’d probably tell me that each of them is worth about $100 because that’s what a Mosin Nagant is worth, even though I’ve got rarer varieties.

  34. If you are building a new home and you live 30 miles from the FD , you gotta know any fire will mean your house will burn to the ground. Any gun safe not in the basement will end up there saw well.

    For $1.35 per square foot you can build it with a sprinkler system that will put out or contain any fire .

    Unlike the movies only the head over the fire will open and if it’s tied into your alarm system you’ll know as soon as it opens .

  35. I suffered a major ballistic loss some years back. I had a separate policy with a well-known insurer where I was required to submit s/n and estimated replacement value for each of my insured items. So my friends at the Farm signed off on all the numbers long before I had to use their services.

    Wah. Insurance companies getting taken advantage of by dishonest policy holders. Wah. Sniff.

    As we used to cheerfully say at a company I worked at years ago, “Things would go a lot smoother around here without these damn pesky customers”.

  36. Guns get more expensive each year new. Well maintained guns will rise above the original price in time. Anyone who owns a gun for a few years knows this. Of course this is not the insurance companies interest but too bad. Their business model is based on taking money not paying it.

  37. Here is the problem the insurance industry is having with the whole depreciation/appreciation aspect of guns, they are not like normal things like cars/etc. They don’t seem to understand the political climate has a profound impact on values of firearms.

    As an example you buy an AR15 in say 2002 for $600, now normally (like cars, etc) the value would depreciate that by 2013 the value should have dropped most likely under $500 (especially due to the increase in the number of AR15s in the market), but due to the whole gun control/AWB scare the value appreciated at that time to say $1000. If you had to file a claim at that time, you could show that used, not new guns which could be another $200-$500, like yours were valued more than what you paid for it and they would have to give you the fair value. Now that the scare is over, what would the value of that AR be today? Maybe what was paid when it was bought new.

  38. I placed an order for a VEPR-12 a couple weeks before the POTUS EO/ban on the importation of it items from the Kalashnikov Concern. Since you can’t buy them anymore, a lot of people are selling them for $1300 (or trying to) on the various gunbroker/armslist sites. They started selling for $799 when first on the market, and the price slowly rose to $900. I was waiting for Classic Firearms to get their importer’s last shipment through the ATF process to make sure everything was paid for before the executive order – it took almost 2 months.

    Glad to know it is worth a little under $200!

    The NRA gives you $2500 insurance for “free” – I am not sure if that is in addition to your homeowner’s insurance or not – anyone know?


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