El Paso Survivor: I Wish My Gun-Wielding Mom Had Brought Her Pistol

CNN cuomo el paso survivor

Courtesy CNN

This probably wasn’t what CNN’s Chris Cuomo was expecting to hear . . .

Christopher Grant said he recognized the sound of gunshots, “So I ran toward my mother to try to shield her and I’m like, mom — cause my mom, she’s a gun-wielding grandma. She carries a snub nose Smith & Wesson, .38 special with a built-in scope in it, everywhere she goes,” but she did not have it on her.

“An hour before we went to Walmart, she decides, ‘We’re just going to Walmart, I’m going to put it in my room.’ So when I went to her, no gun. And I was like, ‘Oh, my God, you got to be kidding me.'”

Grant ran off and saw the shooter in the Walmart parking lot and started to throw bottles at him to distract him. The shooter then started to fire his rifle at him, hitting Grant.

– Julio Rosas in El Paso shooting victim wishes his mom brought her gun to Walmart

 

comments

  1. avatar A says:

    Threw Bottles? Great, now ABInBev is going to get sued because thier glass wasnt strong enough to take him out…..

    1. avatar Kevin says:

      Run, Hide, Fight, but not in that order. First: Fight back, preferably with a gun. Run, if you Run out of ammo. Hide your pistol when the cops show up. You don’t want to get shot by a friendly.

      Your weekly public service announcement.

      1. avatar Arc says:

        I wouldn’t consider cops to be “friendly”.

        1. avatar txJM says:

          Cool story, bro.

  2. avatar Roger J says:

    .38 verses 7.62×39. Not really a fair fight but better than nothing.

    1. avatar Marcus says:

      Well if you can shoot him in the back it makes a big difference.

      1. avatar 41mag says:

        Yes, and we should be praising the heros in these tragic events, not just talking about the perp.

      2. I was wondering earlier today just what the ” court ‘s ” position would be if someone were to shoot a person such as these killers in the back.

        Normally, unless you shoot them in any other position than if they are facing you, the courts usually say that the perp did not pose a threat to you.

        However, with what has happened recently; I would hope that the judicial system would consider the fact that a disabling shot from ANY position, which saved the lives of others; would be taken into consideration before any judgement is rendered.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          As soon as the first victim is gunned down, the shooter has demonstrated his intent to cause harm or death. As he continues to aim and shoot, you’re acting in the capacity of preventing further harm or death. The angle of your line of fire makes no difference.

          You’d better believe everyone there in the shooter’s range of vision will be singing your praises as the one who saved their lives. Their statements will be included in the police reports as the local D.A. decides who to charge, and with what.

          Joel Pershinger of ‘GunGuyTV’ posted a video stating that he – a fortunate CCW holder in the state of CA – advises that he will not help another person in distress due to the potential legal aftermath, regardless of any ‘Good Samaritan’ argument.

          I like the guy, but I completely disagree with him. If I see innocents running for their lives and I have the ability to do something to possibly save them from death, I will not run. Even if all I have on me at the time is my EDC knife in my pocket.

          Remember the saying from the passengers on Flight 93 back on 9/11:

          “Let’s Roll”

        2. avatar Joe says:

          I took the concealed carry course in my state. The law here is that you can use lethal force to protect another person, as long as that person has the legal right to use lethal force to protect themselves. That can be dicey if you don’t know the whole story, but there wasn’t much ambiguity in this case.

          I don’t live in Texas, but Texas gives shooters more leeway than pretty much any other state so I really doubt it’d be an issue.

      3. avatar Kendahl says:

        A .22 in the back of his head will get the job done. Just don’t miss. As far as liability is concerned, remember this is a mass murderer on his spree. About the only way to get into trouble is, after he is down and disarmed, to continue shooting him.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          A .22 to pretty much any part of the head will do it. That’s how one of my best friends from my childhood ended up dying. A single .22 bullet to the front.

    2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Heck, a .380 ACP is just fine if you can put a round on target, regardless of what the opponent has.

      I love how this was on CNN. And now it’s spreading on the Interwebz. Suck it, Cuomo.

      1. avatar Kevin says:

        Chances are if he gets hit with anything, he’ll punch his own ticket. He just needs the proper invitation.

    3. avatar Buff cousin Elroy says:

      True, a hit is a hit. A .38 hollowpoint to the thigh or stomach could easily crush his will to continue.

    4. avatar Sgt Bill says:

      mass shooting at Fairchild AFB years ago by an AK toting perp stopped by a young Airman from 75 yards with two shots from a Beretta 92. Always carry!

      1. avatar Knute(ken) says:

        My sister was a nurse in one of the Trauma wards that day! She didn’t like it either, she’s not a trauma nurse, but had to be one that day, as there was also a large number on wounded.
        I’m quite familiar with the Fairchild AFB incident. I was driving to see her that day, and was wondering why the heavy police presence as I passed by the AFB. There were many police cars with lights on, and a detour around the base entrance, but no activity. I didn’t find out the cause until I got to her house. I had missed the event by just a few hours. I was crossing the Rockies at about Missoula, MT., when the shooting occurred.
        The biggest takeaway from that incident is how much trouble these men will go through to carry out their nefarious plans. He flew all the way from, if memory serves, Alaska, to commit his crimes.
        If a man is willing to put all of his time, and everything he owns, into a crime spree, no Statute (or Law either) is going to stop him. Strange how mentally defective one would have to be, to believe that one so committed would be deterred by such a minor annoyance. Seems to me they would have to be almost as bad as the shooter himself, to be that deranged.
        And that was yet another failure of the horrid US system. He was found to be dangerously unstable by EVERY SINGLE Commanding officer he had, including in basic, but nothing was ever done except to move him off somewhere else. That’s the US system: Pass the buck off to someone else until it explodes somewhere. Never attempt to do anything about the defectives, we find it much easier (albeit not sane) to blame inanimate objects instead. Is it any wonder I call humans “Sheeple”?

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Ahh, so the venerable Knute(ken) still walks among us. Good to hear from you.

        2. avatar Kendahl says:

          Remember Devin Kelley, the guy who shot up a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas? While in the USAF, he beat up his wife, fractured his baby son’s skull, threatened his senior officers, smuggled weapons onto the base and escaped from the mental hospital to which he had been committed. Despite all this, the air force kicked him out with a bad conduct discharge, instead of treating him to an extended vacation in a military prison, and failed to report him to NICS.

        3. avatar Mark N. says:

          When you are holding on to a live grenade, the last thing you want to do is keep it.

        4. avatar Knute(ken) says:

          Mark N.
          But we wouldn’t have to just throw it towards the next guy, and the next guy wouldn’t have to catch it. We’ve turned all of life in the US into a giant game of “Hot Potato”, and never bothered to realize that a child’s game isn’t the best thing to base a society on.
          Ah, sheeple. The list of crazy things one can sell to them is infinite, just so long as it is marketed correctly, which mostly means lots of nonsense rhymes and repetition, and involves words like: “new and improved”.
          And yes, I’m still around. It’s just that TTAG has soured their milk for me with their dishonestly under the current managers.

    5. avatar 2aguy says:

      It isn’t the bullet size that matters…..it is getting someone to shoot back at the killer. Then they have to react to incoming fire, and stop shooting unarmed people…..as we know from actual experience..when these guys are facing another gun, they surrender, run away or commit suicide…..rarely, do they fight back. So any gun, shooting back, will save lives…

      1. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

        On one hand if every one of these guys immediately met armed civilian resistance, every time, these shootings would stop almost completely. On the other hand, determined criminals would just change tactics.

        1. avatar Reno1947 says:

          I agree with you on the principal but if enough people even one that would have engaged the perp knowing it could cost you your life it could have saved a few lives.i was shot in the back during a fist fight decades ago by a coward with a 41magnum and thanks to Jesus Christ I survived.my point rise up, get junkyard dog mean and put these cowards in the ground

    6. avatar Specialist38 says:

      And typically … asshole, murdering cowards behave differently when someone shoots at them.

      Better than harsh words or bottles.

      1. avatar LazrBeam says:

        And, that’s typically why they pull this shit at gun free zones.

    7. avatar S R says:

      I’ve never been in a gun fight and never been trained to be in one. I imagine if I was in one and was hit with any caliber bullet, I would not be able to accurately hit a still target much less a moving one.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        This is exactly why we train to shoot with the support hand, and to do one-handed tactical reloads. You keep going until you can’t.

    8. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Roger J
      It was a single christian man who shot one of several attackers in a south african church that stopped that attack. His self-defense gun was a 38 revolver. The attackers had Real AK-47s and grenades. Two dozen people were killed and wounded, before his single bullet stopped it.

      https://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Back-Right-Duty-Self-defense/dp/0979045118/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Charl+Van+Wyk&qid=1565208635&s=books&sr=1-1

      1. avatar Alan Kerby says:

        I met that brave man in Tulsa, OK last week where he did a presentation on his story. He is still working in a dysfunctional South Africa to heal racial divides and has even ministered to the very terrorists that killed his friends.

        1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          The American warrior show is one of my favorite gun podcasts. Not just guns. Health, physical fitness, mindset, hand to hand fighting, knife fights, things you don’t really think about when it comes to the wide variety of self-defense.

          The St. James Massacre – Gunfight In A Church! 53 minutes long
          https://americanwarriorshow.libsyn.com/size/5/?search=south+africa

    9. avatar ScottMc says:

      It’s all about shot placement!

    10. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      So mom was supposed to bring her AR or better yet, her bazooka to the mall??

    11. avatar Joel says:

      A .38 is certainly better than throwing bottles at him….

    12. avatar The Grey Man says:

      Better than throwing bottles….

  3. avatar Shire-man says:

    Like a helmet. On the day that matters if you have it it is going to really matter that you have it.

  4. avatar Otto Lode says:

    time to stop leaving tools at home first blood has been drawn bitchezz

  5. avatar Dude says:

    She carries a snub nose Smith & Wesson, .38 special with a built-in scope in it

    Sounds interesting.

    1. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

      Pretty amusing but to be fair the guy’s in a hospital bed with bullet holes in him. Pretty sure he’s on the good stuff and good on him for at least trying to offer resistance.

    2. avatar Biatec says:

      I really want to see that.

    3. avatar Defens says:

      Likely a laser – but it doesn’t really matter.

      1. avatar J.D. Fowlerton says:

        Yeah, that was my first thought.

        Next time my sister says I don’t need a gun just making a quick run to the store I may just have to send her this story.

    4. avatar enuf says:

      So he’s a bit confused. He’s shot up first with bullets and now with pain killers. He, tried a desperate move against a killer and he’s in a hospital bed for his good intentions.

      I’d cut him a heap of slack on the mystery scope thing.

      I’d say buy the man a steak dinner and his favorite beverage!

      1. avatar Mike V says:

        And his own .38

        1. avatar Dude says:

          …with a built in scope. He deserves that now. Come on Smith & Wesson.

      2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        I think he should be applauded and be in the media for at least a couple of days!

        We, as a people/nation, should cheer when somebody steps up. Sure, he threw some stuff…maybe some more people join in..throwing stuff…I mean if being armed is not an option..humming a glass bottle at the shooters head will at least make the shooter duck for a second or get his/her bell rung.

        The media would rather show crying, scared, and helpless people with their hands up. It’s the only thing their narrative allows.

        Eff that.

    5. avatar Specialist38 says:

      My guess is the polymer framed bodyguard 38 with laser.

  6. avatar Marcus says:

    I won’t even mow my front lawn without a gun and I’ve even got earpro on to start with.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      I typically have two with me within reach while I’m out in the yard. A pellet rifle for neutralizing destructive vermin like ground squirrels, gophers, raccoons, certain birds, etc., and a Glock for bigger problems.

      I live in the foothills at the end of a long road. On rare occasion we’ve had people of questionable repute drive out to park next to my house and do various unwanted things. One time, a carload of four guys pulled up (thinking nobody was around) and got out to pee on my fencing. I approached them with the command to move along, and they mouthed off and began to surround me. I chose the one who I felt was the leader, looked him dead in the eyes, locked my jaw, and pulled out my K-BAR. They continued to mouth off, but stopped their advance and eventually left after I verbally recited their car’s license plate number to let them know I was taking mental notes for the Sheriff.

      From that day on, I’ve carried both a knife AND a gun.

      1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        “when i was young and i had no sense
        i peed right on an electric fence.”

        1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

          “i peed right on an electric fence.”

          Kinda like touching a hot stove, you only did that *once*… 😉

      2. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

        “A pellet rifle for neutralizing destructive vermin like ground squirrels, gophers, raccoons, certain birds, etc…”

        And Possums?

        (Where is Possum, anyways? I hope he didn’t get clipped by an F-150 while gnawing on a flattened toad in the roadway… 😉 )

        1. avatar Ing says:

          Possum always cracked me up. Never thought I’d be wishing a possum would actually come back around…but here we are.

        2. avatar Specialist38 says:

          Yeah. I’m a littlemworried as well.

          He is a lot of fun.

        3. avatar jwm says:

          Let me check my truck tires…….

  7. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

    At the risk of being insensitive, I would love to see statistics on how many of the victims were armed. I have an idea on the numbers and I’m pretty sure its my argument against further gun control.

    1. avatar Fully Involved says:

      Probably not many. IIRC El Paso is generally a liberal/leftist city, like Austin.
      Also, many times a shooting doesnt make it to the level of “mass shooting” because there was someone armed who stopped the situation from getting to that point (with the exception of the church shooting at that texas church, that got to the point of a mass shooting but was still stopped by an armed civilian response). A bullet in the air is faster than cops cop en route.

      1. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

        When I first heard “walmart in Texas” I thought there should have been legal guns everywhere, but someone pointed out that El Paso has a lot of Mexican nationals who legally come over to shop and such, unfortunately they would not of been able to legally carry. Perhaps a reminder that those of us who can carry should for those who can’t?

        1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

          “Perhaps a reminder that those of us who can carry should for those who can’t?”

          You can if you want, mine is for me and mine. I’m interested in survival, not playing hero for someone else…

        2. avatar CLarson says:

          Sounds like Walmart should protect their foreign customers or maybe the State chasing those sweet, sweet taxes and GDP. But you do you my friend.

        3. avatar The 2nd protects the rest. says:

          That Walmart had a no guns allowed sign up. It was a gun free zone.

        4. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          @2nd,

          Must be a local decision. When I visit Nevada, I open carry in their Walmarts and they never give me a second look. The greeters at the front door always wave and smile.

        5. avatar Darkman says:

          The local Walmart’s never have had a Gun Free Zone (Helpless Victim Zone) sign. Obviously a local decision. As these signs carry no legal weight in Iowa. I never pay them any attention. I’ve even carried in the Sheriff’s office and Police station. As well as the Post Office and Court House even though this is illegal. Concealed Means Concealed. If I need to use my weapon in a SHTF Incident. I’ll deal with the repercussions after it’s all over. I Will NOT DIE because of a Sign. Anyone who does. Has Met the Fate of Their Decisions.

        6. avatar jwm says:

          I heard this wal mart was part of a mall and the mall required no guns. Don’t remember where I heard that.

        7. avatar CLarson says:

          My inelegant point was that Walmart was the venue that congregated all the people together that made it attractive to the shooter. They have the greatest incentive to protect the people, especially if the people aren’t allowed to arm themselves. An armed guard should have been required if the customers were required to disarm. The second line of defense was the State, which also directly profits by foreign traffic and if they have the monopoly of force they need to properly enforce it. They showed up too late as the shooter was leaving. It’s great that individual heroes present themselves, but our society is not set up to incentivize individual acts of courage anymore.

    2. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

      Gun free walmart? Is that common? They tried that here after we got concealed carry and quickly changed their minds.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        IME they are not common but they exist.

        There are two walmarts in my parents town. One is a GFZ. Well, tries to be. They placed their signs on the sliding doors so when you approach the doors slide open and the sign disappears behind the other signs on the window.

        They’re easy to miss, I actually noticed them on the way out rather than the way in. Under the law that doesn’t count as legally binding (I called the DPS to verify that).

        So maybe it’s a half measure to placate the local anti-gun loonies while leaving a loophole. I know DPS has informed that location of the law and that the store hasn’t moved the signs.

  8. avatar Karl says:

    The media won’t call it terrorism because then people will want to protect themselves from it.

    1. avatar enuf says:

      It’s being widely reported across all media that this is being investigated as a domestic terror attack.

    2. avatar Miner49er says:

      “(CNN) — Melba Coody didn’t think the old plotline could unfold again: a mass killing along the US-Mexico border at the hands of a white gunman apparently driven by bigotry and willing to take justice into his own hands.
      It’s how her great-grandfather’s and great-uncle’s lives ended in 1915. The men, both American citizens of Mexican descent, were fatally shot along a Texas road during La Matanza, or The Massacre, a bloody period when members of the vaunted Texas Rangers slayed hundreds of Mexican-Americans amid a climate of racism and hate.Yes, it’s domestic white terrorism that has been going on for over 100 years. And the cause is pure and simple Racism by white supremacists.”

  9. avatar Fully Involved says:

    A built-scope on a 38 snub? Interesting.

    That got me thinking, an alternative to a pdw could be something like a Remington 700 CP (basically a very small bolt action pistol chambered in a rifle caliber). An optic and lightweight bipod could be mounted to return fire from a concealed position at extended range. Something for the sheepdogs to consider.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Not a bad suggestion. On one of my recent trips to the range, a fellow next to me allowed me to take a crack with his .223 hunting pistol with extended barrel and scope. I believe it was single shot, but would look like a big revolver to anyone else, and certainly wouldn’t be confused with a “big black scary military style weapon of death” by reporters.

      I liked his gun.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

        I bet the fireball at the muzzle was impressive…

        1. avatar Fully Involved says:

          The addition of a linear compensator could be helpful to mitigate the blast/flash away from the shooter and towards the target itself. It might not be of use at range but up close it could help momentarily disorient an assailant who isnt using hearing protection (which could prove invaluable in a gunfight).

          Another (stupid?) idea i had was a device that emits a hypersonic sound that is undetectable to human hearing but renders electronic hearing protection useless by forcing it to emit a high-pitched tone. (Im not even sure if something like that is possible, just trying to think outside the box here).

          Also smoke canisters could give people the cover they need to exit an active shooter zone.

          Finally, what if a concealable shotgun was loaded with dragon’s breath? Body armor doesnt do a person a whole lot of good if that person’s also on fire.

          We really do need to repeal the NFA. There are a lot of tools we can use that can save lives but we place arbitrary man-made limits on ourselves for no good reason. It’s a damn shame.

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          @Fully,

          I’m seriously considering getting one of these to augment our church security team as a non-lethal option for concealed carry:

          https://www.pepperball.com/products/tcp/

        3. avatar SkorpionFan says:

          I Haz A Question,
          At first read, I thought you meant you were considering getting “concealable shotguns loaded with dragon’s breath” as concealble, non-lethal weapons for your church security team. 🔥🔥🔥

        4. avatar Fully Involved says:

          @ I Haz a Question: Not a bad idea. I’ll bet you could save some money and just get a standard paintball gun to launch those (while ncreasing range, accuracy, capacity and rate of fire). But if you’re gonna go that route definitely get an electric one with “eyes” which are sensors that prevent the gun from firing unless there is a ball completely chambered. Without those eyes, you run the risk of chopping a pepperball in half when the ball hasnt had enough time to fully fall into the chamber, and all that pepper powder will get all over you.
          The pepperball ammo itself is expensive, 90 rounds is ~$300 and a full hopper of 300 rounds would cost $1k. Still, it might be worth it in a slightly sadistic way. Getting hit by several paintballs hurts pretty bad, but 300? And pepperballs no less?? That’s guy is gonna wish you’d use lethal rounds instead.

          @SkorpionFan: Lol be sure to yell “Avast ye Satan! Begone back to thy depths of Hell from which ye came!” and light him up, literally. If anyone asks, just say they were holy water shells.

        5. avatar Kendahl says:

          Fully: The problem is you would need a wheelbarrow to carry that much stuff. A small semiauto or revolver, one reload, pepper spray and a pocket knife are the upper limit for most of us.

        6. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          @ Fully,

          “…be sure to yell “Avast ye Satan! Begone back to thy depths of Hell from which ye came!” and light him up…”

          Oh, one can dream. 🙂

    2. avatar Wiregrass says:

      I’m thinking he meant something like a Crimson Trace Laser Grip. I can’t imagine how or where to mount an optic on a 642.

      1. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

        If it’s a magnifying glass held on with duck tape I hope it ends up in the smithsonian as part of American ingenuity exhibit.

    3. avatar Wiregrass says:

      A friend of mine has a Savage .308 Striker similar to that.

    4. avatar Kendahl says:

      When a mass murder spree begins, you won’t have time to go for a better gun. You will have to make do with whatever you already have on you even if it’s less than you would like. I know everybody says, “Carry a big enough gun,” but effective concealment counts, too.

    5. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Setting up a revolver for his 9 year old daughter so she can shoot better. Right handed but Left eye dominant.

      “Mounting a Red Dot Scope on a Heritage Arms Rough Rider – Professional Gun Smithing Series” 9 minutes long

  10. avatar Dennis says:

    A pity grandma chose not to carry, a fact that will be buried by mountains of vitriol by MSM!

  11. avatar Otto Lode says:

    Lubys massacre Suzanna Hupp learn her story and be prepared we can turn this around with purple spray of the terrorists blood on the floor
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanna_Hupp

    1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Having seen her speak I have chosen to carry, break the law, and live, In a “gun free” zone. Sadly she followed the law and lost her parents to a mad man. If I have to kill the bad guy while being in a “gun free” zone, I will face the consequences of course.

  12. avatar Jamie says:

    I find it crazy that no one was armed. Where I am, I just always assume a large number are concealed. So I would think, in Texas, even more are. This must not be the case?

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      I have several relatives in Texas. While they’re not averse to guns, they don’t carry. They’re classic hunters (FUDDs in a good sense).

    2. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

      “I find it crazy that no one was armed.”

      I bet there were a handful armed in that store, but they decided engaging a rifle with a pistol was beyond their skill-set…

      1. avatar Jamie says:

        Great point. Didn’t imagine myself in the same situation — certainly with family in tow. Becomes a different story.

      2. avatar Ing says:

        Could be. If I’m in a situation like that, I’m sure as hell not going *toward* the gunfire. (Unless my family is in that direction.) Me and mine are getting the hell out of Dodge in the quickest and safest way possible.

        I’ll shoot if I have to, or if I have a perfect ambush opportunity, but I’m no action hero.

    3. avatar Wiregrass says:

      Most of the shooters I know have a concealed carry permit. In PA it is not a big deal or expensive to obtain. Yet most of them don’t carry. They have the permit primarily because of Pennsylvania’s odd laws on transporting firearms. The license gets them around that.

  13. avatar anarchyst says:

    Changes in “immunity” laws are needed. Concealed weapons permit holders should be covered under the same immunity from prosecution laws that police officers and other public officials enjoy.
    An armed citizen should be able to defend his own life and the life of others, but without changes in immunity laws, concealed weapons permit holders are rightfully reluctant to act. Police enjoy immunity, even if they “make a mistake”, Not so for law-abiding citizens.
    Even the present “stand your ground” concept is not enough, as prosecutors still can and do go after those non-police citizens who “feared for their lives”.
    What I would like to see is CPL holders have the SAME immunity that police and prosecutor have.
    THAT, in itself, would level the “playing field”, and would work, putting those who would do harm on notice that there are armed citizens who WILL “stop the threat”. Look for prosecutors and police to oppose such a move…but one can hope…

    1. avatar Joe in NC says:

      Exactly this. The way it was described in my CCW course is that every bullet has a lawyer attached.

    2. avatar Kendahl says:

      There are states that confer criminal and civil immunity when the incident is ruled self defense. A prosecutor will have a hard time arguing that stopping a mass murderer doesn’t constitute defense of self or others.

  14. “a snub nose Smith & Wesson, .38 special with a built-in scope”

    I’d like to see that too.
    Someone posted (as a joke) a photo of an NAA mini-revolver with a scope strapped to it. The scope weighed 10 times what the NAA mini-revolver weighed and was also 10 times the size!

    Most likely it’s either a laser grip, or a small red dot sight such as a Trijicon RMR, Burris Fastfire III, etc.
    The larger Smith & Wessons come drilled and tapped for an optics mount, but if it’s a little J-frame snubby, it would require a gunsmith to drill and tap it for an RMR.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

      “Someone posted (as a joke) a photo of an NAA mini-revolver with a scope strapped to it. The scope weighed 10 times what the NAA mini-revolver weighed and was also 10 times the size!”

      For 110 bucks, here’s a laser grip for an NAA mini-revolver that is no bigger than the NAA mini it’s mounted on :

      https://www.amazon.com/LaserLyte-activates-Squeezing-Defensive-Confident/dp/B075G8S3FP

  15. avatar Paul says:

    Smart guy, go for a gun to defend himself and his mother.

    Brave man, do what ever it takes to stop this man while not thinking of himself.

    Trump needs to give this man a medal of some kind to honor his act of bravery.

    Lesson:
    Everyone needs to protect themselves at all times. Don’t rely on someone else.

  16. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    No more GFZs of as I call them, Free Fire Zones. The left argument regarding another gun in a situation is similar to not learning to swim because there are lifeguards. 6 minute police response isn’t going to stop an assault, a rape, an arsonist, or a home invasion.

    1. avatar Darkman says:

      Gun Free Zones = Helpless Victim Zones…

  17. avatar former water walker says:

    Oh well…it’s not like the shooter was a winky boy with stick arms wearing HEADPHONES so he wouldn’t damage his prescious hearing?!!!! Because nothing bad ever happens at Wal-Mart😫💀😡

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Looks like he was wearing electronic hearing protection to help him find people. Some witnesses say he was looking for certain people, he heard them hiding under stuff, when he found them they begged in Spanish as he shot them in the head.

      When you are firing a rifle in doors it’s very loud and distracting. Having electronic hearing protection allows you to listen to what is going on and amplify ambient sound without your ears being blown out while firing your weapon.

      I have two pairs of electronic hearing protection a few feet from my desk. I have ear pro at arms reach. If someone breaks in, I can grab my ear muffs to help me hear who is in my house without having to get too close. If I plan to fire off rounds inside, I put on my ear pro first then throw the electronic muffs on top.

      For something more serious, I will have hard body armor in the closet with full rifle mags that is ready to throw on in seconds. Helmet too. I would leave a pistol in a chest holster ready to go, but I don’t live alone.

      I can’t pretend the people breaking into my home at night unannounced will always be teenage gangsters. I expect to scare a man carrying a rifle, whom will believe their life is going to end when they see me armed and will open fire on me with his buddies joining in. I have already seen what happens in that scenario, thus my preparedness.

      It’s also helpful to be prepared like that if you live next to a school, mall, large store, bar/club, etc. In other words, if you live next to an unprotected terror target zone and are not willing to allow innocent people to die while you watch/listen.

  18. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

    – The president said he had a lot of influence in the Republican party and indicated that he would press them to follow through on new legislation.“I will be convincing people to do things that they don’t want to do … I will convince them to do the right thing,” he said. –

    The right thing according to Ivanka or Kim and Kanye?

  19. avatar Reno1947 says:

    Carry at all times, everywhere

  20. avatar Geoff says:

    Firearms “expert” doesn’t know the difference between an AR Rifle and an AR Pistol.
    https://therundownnews.com/2019/08/exclusive-firearms-expert-says-dayton-shooters-weapon-was-illegally-modified/

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      A lot of cops don’t know what an arm brace is and why the gun remains classified by law as a pistol. Most cops are not “gun guys.”

  21. avatar strych9 says:

    Dude went to a gunfight armed with bottles? He must have trouble walking without the aid of a wheelbarrow with balls that size. Can we get this man a gun FFS?

    1. avatar jwm says:

      He made a point that his female relative usually carried and that he went to get the gun from here when the trouble started.

      I’m wondering if dude was a prohibited person and can’t carry a gun?

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        Dunno. If he is he’s at the top of my list to have his rights fully restored.

  22. avatar Chief Censor says:

    This man had his gun but chose to save kids by escorting them out of the store. It is a choice that seems to have haunted him in some ways. Most gun owners have not thought about that scenario: Do you save the kids that are crying out for you to help them or do you leave them behind to get in a shootout with the murderer who is killing others?

    I heard from many people on this site, and others like it, that they will simply worry about themselves and run away. I am not sure if that is a generational thing, if the older generations (in general) are more worried about their lives and only carry that gun to protect their family and themselves. The people I hear say they will sacrifice their life engaging in a shootout with the gunmen (even if futile) are younger men.

    The type of people who think of guns as tools, and use them as such, seem to be the ones that would run towards the threat rather than away.

    1. avatar CLarson says:

      A lot of it is biology, but its also experience and being cognizant of the risks. A younger man will have higher testosterone which correlates with increased aggression and risk taking. He will have a body that still recovers from physical damage easier and so will have a greater sense of invincibility.
      An older man will naturally have lower testosterone, be more aware of his own limitations, and might have read TTAG too much and know how often things go horribly bad for folks with good intentions.😛 Also, he will likely have dependents, present or not, who require his attention over total strangers.
      There is the flip side. The majority of violent crime including these mass shootings are perpetrated by young men.

    2. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

      One of the points from the man down drills we did was to realize just running in to save your buddy might end up making you another body to be rescued, but me personally I’d be inclined to do something for the simple fact I feel I would be better prepared than the typical victim in these types of attacks but ideally before the shooting started, if I saw a guy walking in to a store with an AK and ear muffs on I’d park my car on top of him.

    3. avatar Jamie says:

      This video is heartbreaking. Thanks for sharing.

    4. avatar strych9 says:

      Personally I don’t find it that surprising based on the statistics.

      17.25 million people were thought to have CCW permits nationwide last year. Out of an adult population of about 260 million people that works out to about 6.6%.

      Assume half don’t carry regularly. 3.3%. Assume 25% of the remaining people don’t carry “for short trips to the store”. 2.5% (rounded). Assume that a quarter of those people simply won’t engage for whatever reason. 1.88% (rounded). Assume half those people cannot engage for some reason (bad location, innocents in the line of fire etc). 0.94%.

      Now assume there are 500 people in that area. Based on census data about 20% are too young to have a pistol so we’ve got 400 adults who might be carrying. Apply the numbers above and you get 3.76 as the average number of people who might 1) have a gun legally 2) carrying, 3) be willing to jump into this and 4) have the opportunity to shoot the BG. So round up, 4 (rounded) people maybe. Throw in the reality of the situation and you can probably cut half of those people out very safely.

      So a Walmart with 500 people in it and I’d expect that at most there would be two people with the means, will and situation to respond. Anything goes wrong for them and there’s no one until the cops show up.

      I won’t debate the value of CCW to society here as regulars know my position on that but I’ll point out that I don’t think 6.6% of the adult population holding a CCW permit is “enough” to have much deterrence effect. Especially if you figure half of them don’t carry regularly and a lot of those that do still won’t “step up”. Effectively it means that a mass shooter has a 96.7% or better chance of NOT running into armed resistance until LE arrives. And even if we go all the way up to a the four people we’re really talking something like a 1% (4/400) chance that there is armed resistance before LE arrives.

      With stats like that being a mass shooter is actually kinda safe from a purely numerical point of view in terms of the chances of running into armed resistance.

      So, in reality, when you look at the number of stories of CCW permit holders actually stopping a mass shooting, CCW does better than the stats would really suggest. A LOT better. But, 1) that doesn’t get much media play and 2) still isn’t anywhere near half of the major “public mass shooting” events.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        Sounds like most people own guns as “toys” not tools. That’s a bad culture to foster. That’s an European mentality towards firearms and self defense.

        My peers and I own guns as tools of offense. We will use our weapons to injure or kill anyone that attempts to commit felonious crime on an innocent person. We won’t run and hide when we are armed. Maybe we are just young and dumb.

        My firearm isn’t a toy, it’s a weapon. Weapons by definition are tools to cause injury and/or death. If you take away the ability for my firearms to cause injury or death, you have turned my weapon into a toy, a toy that is not much different than other guns. Such as a water gun, a nerf gun, an airsoft gun, a BB gun, a paintball gun, etc.

        This is my firearm, it’s commonly known as a gun, it’s a tool, specifically categorized as a weapon. This tool is designed to cause injury and death to squishy things like animals and humans. That’s what it’s for, whether in a war or in a store. I control it, it doesn’t control me, as it is a tool and I am its operator.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          I’m not sure I’d go as far as you have here.

          Figure that my assumptions are correct and you’ve got four people to cover an entire Walmart against a someone who’s probably firing basically willy-nilly at anyone he thinks he can hit.

          The average Walmart, according to the Intertubez is 105,000 square feet.

          Cut in quarters that’s 26,250 square feet per armed person to cover. That’s a circle with a radius of about 91.41 feet (30.47 yards). It’s also full of objects they have to get/see/shoot around as well as screaming/moving people and some asshole shooting at those people.

          Considering the way people function and the way clusters tend to appear it’s a fairly sure thing that these four statistical people are not evenly dispersed over the store. Likely there’s at least one pair of them (such as an armed couple since like minds hang out together etc). They’re probably not moving terribly far apart from each other so there’s a lot of overlap leaving nearly a quarter of the store uncovered.

          That means that under our best case scenario the CCW holder has to properly assess the threat, hunt them down, travel to a shooting location in something that is almost certainly not a straight line etc etc. Take away a quarter of the store being covered and you’re talking about moving quite a distance against the flow of people trying to get away so that you can get to your “sector” of the store and now as you enter that zone you’ve got somewhere on the order of a 30 yard shot with a pistol which is well outside what most people are comfortable plus you’ve got the chaos to deal with. So most people probably need to close to somewhere around half that distance and do so against what is probably a rifle.

          It’s not an easy or enviable task unless you just happen to be in the right spot at the right time. Since the incidence of CCW is low plus all the other factors I put in my OP, it’s not a very high probability event.

          Like I said, the percentage of these mass shootings that ARE stopped is actually kind of surprising based on these numbers. That indicates that either those are outlying events that would be smoothed out by more data points or at least one of my statistical assumptions is wrong. The only thing we have hard numbers on is the number of issued CCW permits and even that’s a bit squishy for my liking.

        2. avatar Knute(ken) says:

          This is exactly how I look at the situation. Firearms are just tools, and in my case, a tool I could use to make money at age 12. This is why I carry a reload on a speedstrip for a .38 snub. Because if I have to shoot something, dying cow, porcupine, skunk, or what have you, I want to carry a full gun afterwards. Once it’s only got a round or two left in it, it isn’t much good anymore.
          I don’t care that the reload is slower. Strips are a lot less bulky than a speedloader, and I likely won’t need to reload in a hurry. And even if I did, in a worst case scenario, I’d still take cover for a reload anyway. Standing in the open fiddling with a firearm while under fire strikes me as the stupidest possible action one could take.

      2. avatar Chief Censor says:

        In the Dayton shooting the police were hanging around the bar to prevent drunk violence. They got there in seconds because they were waiting around the corner. They had to deal with dozens of people running into the line of fire while the murderer was shooting. About 6 cops fired at him until empty because he was wearing body armor, they even reloaded. They stopped him at the front door of his target location.

        The gunmen was in the bar hours before the shooting hanging out with his sister and a friend who brought him there. He was wearing shorts and a shirt. He left the bar and changed all his clothes. He put on pants, a jacket, body armor, a backpack full of ammo, a mask, a beanie and electronic hearing protection. He returned to shoot at a group of black people standing outside and chased after them.

        It’s almost as if he planned to escape considering what appears to be an attempt at a disguise and the use of body armor. He planned the attack for some time, he was researching mass shootings. I hear he watched the Christchurch shooting and showed the video to his then girlfriend. He posted about getting gun control passed after Parkland. Seems he saw what happened in El Paso and thought it was time to do his attack on minorities to get gun control passed, which the Republican governor of Ohio and the Republican president is now calling for.

        If more people carried their guns these planned terror attacks will end a lot sooner. The terrorist won’t get to reach the average mass shooting time of ~7 minutes. It’s definitely time to carry a semi auto with a few extra mags especially so if you’re a minority, a Jew or a Muslim.

    5. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      As a gun owner He did the correct thing. He was there. The people commenting were not.

      1. avatar The Grey Man says:

        Well said…

  23. avatar Political gristle says:

    Kelly Conway, talking on faux news about eviscerating HIPAA, and passing (UBGC) universal background checks( can’t sell family members guns without a BG check).
    Extreme sarcasm:**
    **Oooooh! That God damn pesky HIPAA privacy bullshit, you’re a white terrorist if you oppose govt violating your right to privacy.**
    Sarcasm off/

    “The American public has an appetite for gun “safety” legislation”

    We’re being stabbed in the back, Republicans are going to twist, break off the blade, then feed us into the wood chipper for good measure.

    1. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

      How about no new gun control until we see how things play out between the unarmed citizens of Hong Kong and the very armed Chinese government.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        Saw that show in 1989.

        1. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

          Sadly I’m not sure the people in Hong Kong have.

  24. avatar GS650G says:

    Doesn’t matter what a progun person says. The disarmament movement has momentum. They wouldn’t blink if every victims family made the same statement. No minds are being changed and the number of people in the middle is dwindling

  25. avatar Gideon Rockwell says:

    Once you commit to get a license to carry or commit to carry, always carry. That means even if you are just running to the corner stop and rob, at least drop a Ruger LCP or similar pocket pistol in your pants pocket. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and it’s home in the underware drawer. Carry, practice and stay alive. let it be the bad guy going in the bag, not one of us good guys.

  26. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    The white Liberals are not going to like it when they learn black people old and young are carrying guns. Liberal Democrats started racist gun control. The Black Liberals will follow the orders of the whites and try to demonize black gun ownership.

  27. avatar advertisingdollars says:

    This gentleman is a hero. This is what all the news channels should be running as their top story. Human courage and perseverance.

    No, they just choose to hold the shooter on a pedestal to wring all the political/advertising dollars possible out of it. THEY are a major driving force who drive UP the number of mass attacks with their nonstop news cycles giving these sick individuals the 15 minutes of fame they desire.

    Why has there not been a law to mask the identity of these people when such heinous acts are committed? Why is that question not being asked?

    1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      We have to many laws on the books already. Put moral pressure on the press to stop saying or printing the shooters name.

      1. avatar The Grey Man says:

        The words “moral” and “press” should never be spoken in the same sentence…

  28. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

    Hopefully in the future his mom won’t be the only one carrying. Get ya one of them scoped 38s cause this is America

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