With all this hand-wringing about the DOJ secretly seizing the Associated Press’ phone records, the fact that the AP isn’t exactly pro-2A hasn’t escape our attention. To wit [via kgw.com]: “Police say a carjacking suspect armed with a knife was caught and held by witnesses in Portland after he threatened a man who happened to have a gun.” Wait! What’s this in my pocket? A gun! OK Buddy, you can drop that knife now. “Police say the man who had been driving a stolen car, carjacked a truck Sunday in the parking lot of a Clackamas County motel . . . He stopped at a Portland restaurant parking lot and threatened a man with a knife. But the victim had a gun. The suspect dropped the knife and tried to run, but was held by witnesses until police arrived.”
Perhaps this is a dense question…but how does a civilian with a gun hold a criminal? If he’s running away, I don’t think I could shoot ’em. If it’s a case where I’m physically barring his escape, I suppose that’s different. Do you see what I mean? I’m by no means opposed to the practice, I’m just curious how it might go down.
You can’t shoot someone who is fleeing. Once the threat of harm has passed call the police and let them deal with it. If you shoot a man who is fleeing even if he did attempt to assault or kill you, you will spend some time in prison.
The same way a bad guy makes you hand over your wallet.
Pull the gun.
Point it at you.
“Do as I say, or you will die.”
Yeah, shooting some jerk who’s already high-tailing it outta there was never the question, don’t worry. But I guess nothing prevents him from running even if you say, “Don’t move!” Just thinking out loud – always a dangerous thing, I know.
If you point a gun at me and say “Stop right there!” in a firm, confident voice, I’m probably going to stop. You don’t actually have to make the threat.
I don’t know if this is worth mentioning in this thread, but in Oregon, it is illegal to shoot once the criminal is no longer a threat. I believe police can shoot a fleeing felon if it is believed they will commit another violent felony, but us serfs, we do not have that luxury in Oregon. BTW, I might also mention that the odds of someone having a CWP in Clackamas County are really high, so this criminal really isn’t that smart.
If you have no duty to retreat, better to shoot the crim and chalk it up to fearing for your life. If I point my gun at someone, I’ve already decided to shoot them.
Fair enough, Dr. Ken. That was certainly a big point from my carry class – if you’re drawing, it’s already time to shoot. Lets hope that never has to be tested, God willing. :-/
Are you saying you’d kill someone who had already surrendered just for the hell of it? What if there was a witness you hadn’t noticed? Would ya kill the witness too?
Christoff, I think you misunderstood the good doctor. I don’t see anywhere where he stated to shoot a guy trying to surrender.
I am in a similar opinion with the doc. You shouldn’t have to take your gun out to make the criminal run away. I suppose you could try it. I feel it better to always keep your firearm concealed and not draw until unless you intend on firing it.
If the guy with the knife doesn’t want to leave you alone and tries to stab you and you shoot and kill him. That’s it – end of story. Although I hope it never happens. Even guys in the right defending themselves and family will likely be harassed by the DA with the toughest penalties possible. Expect to pay a lot of money on a lawyer – that’s all I can say.
If I recall correctly, the same rules apply here in Texas, with one exception. If it is a night and the criminal is fleeing with your goods you are permitted to shoot. I could be wrong about that but it’s what I remember from class. Daytime, can’t shoot, night time you can.
The suspect dropped the knife and tried to run, but was held by witnesses until police arrived.”
Guess you all missed that part.
No, I didn’t miss that part. It’s actually what prompted my question.
Sorry, after rereading your response above I realized it was a question not a statement. My bad!
Citizens’ arrest: you cannot shoot the guy once he’s not a threat, but you’re free to tackle/sit on him.
Witnesses help.
From reading that article it sounds like the witnesses were physically holding the robber.
Matt brings up a good point though that shooting a fleeing crook would not be advisable and there would be nothing to prevent the crook from running away. Nothing of course except for the fact that he or she would have no way of knowing whether the gun holding victim/bystander would shoot regardless of what would be the “right or wrong” thing to do. That’s sort of what the crooks count on…the victims not knowing whether the robber will really shoot or stab them. Should work for us good guys as well.
This is why all of the gun control bills that came up in the legislature this session (and they were terrible, on par with the worst) were sent back to committee to die a quite death.
The gun owner here is likely a Democrat who voted for Obama twice and straight Democrat in local elections. There are lots of these types in Oregon.
Depending on the state, one may use physical force to prevent or detain someone who has committed certain crimes. One may use deadly force to prevent certain crimes. A person may, in some states, use deadly force to prevent the immediate flight from certain serious crimes, such as rape or murder. The laws are all over the place.
State laws control the options available to CCW holders, and since the laws vary greatly from state to state, a general discussion can be very misleading.
Which doesn’t matter all that much until trial. So, unless the loss of my life or health is imminent, I’m not shooting someone even if I could do so legally. If I catch a burglar in the act and tell him to stop and he runs away, I won’t shoot him. Use physical force, maybe, but not shoot him. YMMV.
Isn’t this the second time a CCW permit holder from Clackamas County stopped a crime with his firearm (without firing a shot). This story will die a slow death in the media like the one at the Clackamas Mall.
Brought a knife to a gunfight. If that’s the perps picture up there he looks about as bright as a hamster. Wonder what trailer park he lives in?