Exceedingly cautious . . . Why some future gun owners might be opening an empty box this Christmas – “There is a section of the 4473 form, the document submitted to perform the NICS background check, that notifies a dealer that the firearm intended for purchase is a gift for someone else. But business owners like (Ed) Soto have policies to avoid firearms falling into the wrong hands, and suggest customers either buy a gift card or wrap the empty box and retrieve the firearm later. ‘Once you’ve told me that this is for a brother or spouse or somebody else, I consider it a straw purchase and the best thing to do, and what we do is we sell you the weapon (and) we’ll give you the box for the weapon that doesn’t have the weapon in it,’ he said. ‘You wrap it as a Christmas gift with the receipt, that person opens up their box, they now how have a revolver waiting at Palmetto Indoor Range, they’ll come down here and that person will fill out the paperwork. This way under no circumstances is it a straw purchase, and it is going directly to the person that you intended to have it legally.'”
No charges for Uber driver who fatally shot assailant – “An Uber driver will not be charged after he shot and killed a would-be robber while headed to Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport with a customer in the car, Aventura police announced Monday. Namique Anderson, 29, of Miramar, was confronted by a man with two handguns after picking up a passenger in Aventura just before 6 a.m. Sunday. He could lose his job for violating Uber’s no-weapons policy by carrying a gun.” And probably will.
Pro tip: Pretty pink pistols just as deadly, warn police – “A 23-year-old West Roxbury gangbanger was allegedly packing a pink-handled pistol during a violent struggle with Hub police Monday — the third time in recent months that a blush-colored firearm was taken off a suspect accused of a violent crime, police say. And though some may say a pretty pink pistol isn’t as menacing as the silver or black models, cops stress the pastel handguns are no less lethal.” Good to know the BPD is on the job.
There’s still time . . . The Fondoodler Cheese Gun is the Gift You Need This Year – “The Fondoodler sounds like a sex toy for circus clowns, and it promises some carnal pleasure and a few laughs. It also promises warm, gooey cheese. After five minutes alone with the Fondoodler, a handheld machine that is able to melt cheese at the touch of a button, I knew I’d found my kitchen gadget of the year. Its inventors, Lucas Lappe and Avi Bajpai, came up with the idea after they used a hot glue gun and wisely wondered, Why doesn’t this exist for cheese?”
I wonder how many they mean by “some” children . . . New York Children Participate in Toy Gun Exchange – “Some New York children have traded in toy guns for other gifts as part of a Manhattan philanthropist’s second annual toy gun exchange program. More than 100 youths gathered Wednesday at Brierley Park in Hempstead on Long Island to participate in the exchange, started by Jean Shafiroff (above) to discourage children from playing with toy guns that appear real.”
Tough guy who suffered temporary PTSD firing a gun not too bothered by assassination of ‘Putin’s lackey’ – “Thoughts and prayers were not forthcoming from New York Daily News columnist Gersh Kuntzman (for the murdered Russian ambassador). That’s pretty hard-hearted, especially considering Kuntzman was one of about 50,000 reporters who got his hands on an evil AR-15 rifle after the terrorist attack on the Pulse nightclub, but the only one we know of who claimed to have suffered “temporary PTSD” from firing one at a gun range. But if the only thing standing between an ambassador and a lectern is a jihadi with a gun …”
Rusk Co. homeowner shoots and kills suspected burglar – “A suspected burglar is dead after a homeowner was forced to shoot the man as he attempted to enter a home Saturday night. According to a press release, Rusk County deputies responded to a shooting around midnighton Dec. 17 to a home on County Road 102 West Henderson. It was reported that a white male had entered the home without the consent of the owner. During the incident, the intruder failed to stop when advised to by the 51-year-old homeowner.” Another holiday season saved by a successful defensive gun use.
Or you could go to a dealer who actually knows what a straw purchase is.
Or just keep your mouth shut and say it’s for you. They don’t need to know it’s a gift.
I betcha that ole Ed’s prices are higher than cat’s ass, also.
Exactly. If the person getting the gift isn’t paying for it, it’s not a straw purchase.
Yep. And this dealer is actually encouraging a straw purchase. The ATF has made it pretty clear lately that what they care about is that the same person providing the money is also filling out the form.
There is no section on a Form 4473 to notify a dealer that one is gifting a purchased firearm, and no requirement to do so; The instructions for Question 11.a, “Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?” specifically state that if one is buying a firearm with their own money to give to someone else as a present, they ARE the actual transferee/buyer and should answer ‘yes’ to the question. Doing so is NOT any form of ‘straw purchase;’ Of course, one can’t gift a firearm to a prohibited person.
Don’t FFLs read the fine print?
They read the fine print, but they’re judged by an agency run by people who jumble its meaning to suit their own agendas.
Of course they/we do. But, no one else does. The 4473 tells you how to fill it out (seriously, read it), and there is no actual definition of a straw purchase anywhere.
The important thing is whether you’re providing a firearm to a prohibited person. And that has nothing to do with the dealer as long as they do their due dilligance….and whether private transfers are legal (and whether that law is enforceable).
“The 4473 tells you how to fill it out (seriously, read it), and there is no actual definition of a straw purchase anywhere.”
Yes there is. It gives an example of a straw purchase and it gives an example of a gift purchase.
“The important thing is whether you’re providing a firearm to a prohibited person.”
The Supreme Court disagrees with you:
It seems the most important thing, if you don’t want to go to jail, is whether you answer all the 4473 questions truthfully.
Agreed. A straw purchase by definition is when someone who cannot legally buy a gubn gives someone else the money to buy one for them. Buying a gun as a gift for a loved one is in no way a straw purchase. In most states in the non-Nazi USA, it is perfectly legal to give a gun to someone as a gift.
If there was any doubt Kuntsman’s name is 100% indicative of his personality, this pretty much puts that right to bed.
And how stupid do you have to be to not realize that a real gun painted pink is still a real gun? That was an actual news story, not an onion article? I pine for our future.
I find the “C”word quite useful…OTOH Kuntzman is a bag of sheet.
I see Gersh is still a Kunt.
Yep, he’s a Lumber Jack and he’s ok, he drinks all night and he works all day.
He likes to put on women’s clothing and hang around in bars!
The funny thing about that song (which is already hilarious) is that a fellow wildland firefighter that I know is gay.
We drop big trees all day (although not as many/big as a real lumberjack) but he doesn’t wear women’s clothes (gay not trans, geeze) and he certainly doesnt get PTSD from his AR15 or 44 Mag.
“It was reported that a white male had entered the home without the consent of the owner.”
Damn. I hope he wasn’t wearing a red suit and a white beard.
Not til tomorrow, ralph
The Fondoodler… How cheesy.
That name just kills me. …..
Yeah, it is pretty clear about the difference between a gift and a straw purchase. As long as the recipient isn’t a prohibited person and they don’t pay you, then it is not a straw purchase. Pretty simplr ,if you ask me.
I used to make straw purchases all the time…the cows approved.
You might as well give ’em a box filled with lumps of coal.
Gee I’m getting the wife a revolver. No plans on telling the dealer I’m giving it to her…Sorry KUNTzmann -with a name like THAT I’d just kill myself. What a big girl.
That dealer is an idiot. The ATF EXPLICITLY has said that a gift is not a straw purchase. So take your business elsewhere. Its a freaking gun. Not a nuclear weapon. The form 4473 instructions for question 11a EXPLICITLY SAY
“You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party.”
It doesn’t get any more clear than that. Does it?
I really REALLY wish ignorant people would stop spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt.
I really expect more from TTAG.
The simple question is that if its legitimately a gift, then buying and gifting a gun is PERFECTLY legal.
“No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is fear, uncertainty and doubt! Two chief weapons, fear, uncertainty, and doubt! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, uncertainty, doubt, and near fanatical devotion to the NRA! Um, I’ll come in again…”
Bring out… the comfy chair!
You had chairs?
All we had were cardboard boxes to sit on, and we were glad to have them !
And the soft cushions!
People should go to Ed Soto and ask if he carries the Fondoodler.
After all, it’s a gun.
Just don’t buy it as a gift.
And don’t shoot any Russian diplomats with it.
Kuntzman would still get ptsd from it.
I’ve purchased a pi stol for my wife and told my (kitchen table / internet transfer) FFL it was for her. As others have pointed out there’s nothing illegal or improper about that. However if I were an FFL and someone admitted that the weapon was for someone other than an immediate family member I would probably not let them walk out the door with the weapon. When dealing with the ATF (or any other federal bureaucracy for that matter) it’s probably best to proceed with caution. Don’t blame the dealer, blame the federal government.
So he is is self policing people making legitimate purchases? Wow, with friends like these…
My wife and I went to Rural King in a town in TN. They have a section of pretty colored pistols. My wife went by and said “ooh” as she walked by them. She liked the different colors. I’m hoping to graduate her from her S&W M&P 22 to a 9mm pistol. Unfortunately the guns that she can rack the slide on are the M&P9 line and they only come in colors I like. Black and FDE.
The Remington RM380 is by far the easiest automatic to rack the slide on available today. My wife saw one at the LGS, liked the look of it, so I bought it for her. She wanted something smaller than her Sig 938 to pocket carry. Not knowing what the gun would function like, I told her she wouldn’t be carrying it until we put a decent amount of rounds through it. Two range trips, 500 rounds of fmj and jhp through it, not a single issue. I know a lot people are not real fond of Remington products right now, but her RM 380 has been rock solid.
Try some Duracoat to fix the color problem. Not too hard to apply a flat color (camo is pretty work intense though).
The Sig P238 has one of the softest springs in the non-.22 game. And it comes in about two dozen color configurations.
And, if the intended operator wants something more tactical, the P250 is similarly easily racked.
“what the heck is that?”
“it’s dallas archer’s fondoodler holster… i think she left the safety off.”
“Another holiday season saved by a successful defensive gun use.”
While a dead intruder is no doubt better than a dead homeowner, I suspect their holiday season is still pretty much ruined anyway, what with having to kill someone in their home and all. I fortunately have no first-hand experience, but I suspect that’s the sort of thing that fucks your life up considerably for at least a little while.
Thankfully, most of us will never have any idea…
That homeowner needs to be gifted with some eggnog stat. And a new mop.
It beats going to funerals for you loved ones .
“Wherein I make a case for political assassinations … when the victim works for Putin or Hitler, that is.” -Gersh Kuntzman
Considering the Left is trying to paint Trump as a lackey of Putin, I would call that a not at all veiled threat.
I like how all the sudden NOW the left is all hardcore anti Russian, like 50s era paranoia level, when they used to worship the USSR and hate Reagan for speeding its demise.
As someone who has read a few thousand book pages on Soviet/KGB history and drawn the rhetorical parallels to the current batch of SJW’s, I find the irony of their protest hilarious as well. I wonder how they’d react if these allegations were made with Hillary as prez elect.
Progressives reinvent constantly. They used to be against voting for blacks and supported segregation at one time.
Maybe they will support the 2A next
From the Russian archives….
Ted Kennedy Secretly Asked The Soviets To Intervene In The 1984 Elections
For the record, that’s not Ed in the photo.
Nothing controversial….just Happy Christmas to TTAG and all.
One person goes to the store chooses and pays for a firearm.
Then a different person comes to the store and fills out the 4473, and takes the firearm.
That still sounds like a “straw-man purchase” to me.
I thought that was Jermey Clarkson from top gear for a second. “More Powwwer”
Don from CT says: “I really expect more from TTAG. ”
Don, your expectations are too high.
Then why are you here?
If the best you can do is to b*tch and moan, just go somewhere else. Everybody wins.