Could a President Biden Tax Guns and Ammo by Executive Order?

Listen to “Spike in guns and ammo sales amid pandemic || 1370 WSPD Toledo || 8/10/20” on Spreaker.

[This exchange begins at the 8:36 mark of the audio file at the link above.]

Q: Emily, one of the concerns I’ve got over President Trump’s executive orders issued over the weekend affecting the payroll tax, if that’s upheld, if that survived lawsuits. I did find some sections of the US code that makes this legal for the President to order.

Unfortunately, I also think it sets a bad precedent where a new President who may not be as friendly towards the Second Amendment as Donald Trump has proven to be could come in and order an executive order increasing taxes on ammunition or gun sales. And just the same way, have the same effect, without having to go through Congress.

A: Yeah, that is really scary. Now the good news is the Supreme Court, although they have been really unwilling to take up new Second Amendment issues, even in our new composition of the Court, our most recent new composition which we sure thought they would be far more likely to take up Second Amendment cases. Now, even though they’ve not been as friendly as we thought, they are and remain likely to take up issues of executive authority.

So that is good news and we can only hope that if a new President oversteps bounds, tries to tax firearm manufacturers out of business and tax Americans out of their Second Amendment rights, that that is something the Supreme Court would take up and hopefully put the kibosh on pretty quickly.

– Attorney Emily Taylor in Spike in guns and ammo sales amid pandemic

comments

  1. avatar Ron says:

    He’ll certainly try.

    1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

      …and that POS Roberts will let him do it, “to protect the integrity of the high Court” or some such rot…

      1. avatar JP Ruiz says:

        Lol. The Democrats would still, in that scenario, Pack The Court.

        They’ve already stated they’re going to anyway.

        1. avatar Southern Cross says:

          But first they will have to create positions through forced retirement and “accidents”.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          No, they just add 6 seats and fill them with their own picks…

      2. avatar Public Service Announcement says:

        Just stopping by to remind everyone that ‘Goof…PR’ is a limp wristed fancy man who tosses more salad than Olive Garden.

        1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          Look, I’ve already told you, I won’t go out with you, no matter how much you insist that you give the best head… 😉

        2. avatar Ing says:

          Status of troll’s jimmies: Rustled. Approaching peak Harambe.

    2. avatar Debbie W. says:

      Let’s see…obiden is going to Raise Taxes. Exactly what part of “Raise Taxes” don’t you understand?
      The marxist democRat Party Platform is “From each according to his means to each according to his needs.”
      The soros/bloomberg money is to get democRats elected. After that the money comes from Y O U.

      TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

      1. avatar Debbie W. says:

        Only Congress can enact taxes yada yada. If voters are stupid enough to vote biden and if little nancy gets stronger in the house and another Romney or two finds their way into the senate perhaps that may end the bickering. However if you don’t vote, you don’t get your circle to vote and you don’t TRUMP/PENCE your posts you are only satisfying your need to hear yourself speak.

      2. I have all the authority I need to fix the tax laws that the lazy Democrat Congress just cannot do. That changes if you elect Biden because he just isn’t smart like me. You have to be real smart to write a good executive order. That’s why I’m the first President to use the power smartly and bigly.

      3. avatar Polcat says:

        Oh I always thought it was from the workers regardless of their needs to the politicians according to their wants.

    3. avatar LarryinTX says:

      The biggest difference here is that the payroll tax is never even mentioned in the Constitution, where the right to keep and bear has an entire Amendment devoted to it alone.

      1. avatar Ing says:

        That’s not very encouraging. “The Constitution doesn’t mention it so we can do whatever we want” plus “The Constitution means whatever we want it to.”

      2. avatar Anymouse says:

        The President can’t impose new taxes. The Constitution clearly gives that authority to the Congress in Article 1, Section 8. What he can do is announce that he won’t enforce any penalties for not paying those taxes. If Biden wins, he won’t need to raise taxes on guns via executive order. If he wins, he’ll probably have majorities in the House and Senate, which will pass the taxes on their own, and he’ll sign them into law if he can remember his name and how to spell it.

  2. avatar Huntmaster says:

    Oh….boy.

  3. avatar Bigus Dickus says:

    The answer to that question is an easy and simple “NO”. Only congress can enact taxing policy, an executive order attempting to do the same would be illegal.

    1. avatar Mike V says:

      I’d tend to agree, not terribly confident though.

    2. avatar Darkman says:

      Sorry you’re wrong that congress is the only branch of the federal government with taxation powers.
      The Supreme court can and has enacted a tax upon the American people. It is called Obama care.

      1. avatar Felix says:

        The Supreme Court did not enact the tax. It was already in the legislation. What really happened was Roberts said that because it was administered by the IRS, it was a tax, not a penalty.

        Stop spouting ill-informed nonsense. That’s what the hoplophobes do, because they have no real facts on their side.

      2. avatar Bigus Dickus says:

        And it was through uphold congressional legislation, it was not upholding and illegal executive order.

        It is important that we understand what The Constitution says, taxing authority power is delegated to the legislative branch ONLY.

        1. avatar Darkman says:

          Sorry to burst your bubble but the Mandate for those without insurance was originally written into the legislation as a penalty. The supreme court changed the definition to classify it as a Tax. Look it up.

        2. avatar Bigus Dickus says:

          You’re just not paying attention, are you. The “penalty” was included in law ENACTED BY CONGRESSIONAL ACTION. Do you understand the difference between congressional legislation and and executive action? Apparently you do not.

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          There is no penalty, never has been. CJ John Roberts, ALL BY HIMSELF, declared it a tax, thereby avoiding finding the entire law (act) unconstitutional before it ever went into effect. Is there something preventing you from understanding English? THERE IS NO PENALTY, ENACTED BY ANYBODY!!

        4. avatar Darkman says:

          @Bigus Dinkus. You obviously have no comprehension skills. The Supreme Court changed the definition of the Penalty to a Tax. Because the Penalty was illegal under the Constitution. Which made it moot. The Supreme Court made up the “Tax” because there was no supporting Tax legislation in the law. Without it’s actions the “Tax” didn’t exist.

      3. avatar LarryinTX says:

        While you are correct, that levy was and is unconstitutional.

  4. avatar Leigh says:

    If Biden gets elected…there will be a run on guns and ammo like never before from November to January…
    Glad I have a good stock of both.
    If Trump gets in…not so much…
    But eventually we will get a Dem sweep of house/senate/President…and watch out then…

    1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

      “there will be a run on guns and ammo like never before from November to January…”

      Ending in January?

      The run will continue for the next 4 years if (when) he wins. Because in that time frame, there will be another tragedy, they will exploit it, and some conservatives will join them in stealing our rights…

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      When Trump wins this time, the Democrat Party is going to commit Hara Kiri, we’ll be done with them.

  5. avatar Steve says:

    You mean, can Kamala Harris…. Biden sitting behind that desk is just for show not four go… she is the right hand of Michelle Obama

  6. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    They won’t need to tax anything, I’m already seeing .223 running from eighty cents to two dollars a round… fifty cents a round for .22 LR?… and ARs are getting harder to find AND more expensive… Guess I’ll be cutting “Happy Hour” down to happy 1/2 hour and start conserving my stash, 15/20 thousand rounds all of a sudden doesn’t look all that secure……

    1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

      “fifty cents a round for .22 LR?”

      Hell, that’s tempting me to sell some of my newly-acquired stash.

      But I won’t.

      I’ve been using filled ammo cans as ‘Freedom Kettle-Bells’… 🙂

    2. avatar Not Larry from Texas says:

      I hear ya. I wanted to do a state police sponsored tactical carbine course for a refresher course for myself. Since I am self sponsoring I am on my own for ammo and gear. The recommended ammo count for this course is a 1000 rounds of 5.56mm which is giving me heart burn currently . I should have bought more 6 months ago, the idea of burning 1000 rounds and replacing them at the current prices is a bit rough.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        The only thing that has seemed to hold kind of steady is 7.62×39… just ordered 1280 rounds of Tul @ .47 cents per…

        1. avatar 9x39 says:

          Not sure how either, I know a load of people who have built or bought the weapons that eat it recently.

          Also, hush! *whispers conspiratorially* Don’t tell everyone that, I like the prices just as they are.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          I like the prices just as they are.

          With two AKs and an AR that eat the stuff so do I…

        3. avatar Not Larry from Texas says:

          @ that price your paying way to much. SGA ammo has 7.62x39mm at .29 cents per round for a 1000 rounds

        4. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          What, wolf? I wouldn’t use their shitty ammo for a paper weight.. Tried it once, split cases, FTF… I just passed on 1000 rounds at 28.5 cents from bulkammo.com…. Bear, Tul, Red Army.. Never again Wolf…

        5. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Hey, Not! You know, you could move! Probably a great idea!

        6. avatar Not Larry from Texas says:

          Rural PA so it isn’t to shabby. The local township police laugh at me everytime I go in for fingerprints for my next stamp. They just ask what I got this time.

  7. avatar JOMALLA HARDIN says:

    We don’t need no stinking taxes and all of the court hassles you gun nuts would throw at us, we’ll just turn Beto loose and if he can’t get it done we can always hook Eric up with a few tactical nukes and by God he’ll take care of you. C’MON MAANNNN.

    1. avatar Not chicken little says:

      Good job with doing Biden’s brainstorming for him ;
      Executive order, extra taxes on guns and bullets that’s not a tax , hmm, hadn’t thought of that,
      Thanks POTG

    2. avatar Not chicken little says:

      Jomalla
      Your post makes no sense.
      What are you talking about?
      Eric?
      Nukes?
      Please explain.

      1. avatar JOMALLA HARDIN says:

        For those of you that have been living under a rock for the past decade or so, a refresher.. In November 2018, Democratic U.S. Representative Eric Swalwell suggested launching nuclear weapons against gun-owners who refused to hand over or sell semi-automatic rifles to the U.S. government.

        And it’s JOM—(A not O)–LLA (as in JO-e/ka-MALLA HAR-ris/bi-DEN) C’mon Mann.

        1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          and those nukes are legit!

          Let’s go outside and do push-ups MANN!

        2. avatar JOMALLA HARDIN says:

          You sure you don’t want to run a foot race instead? C’MON MAAANNNN,,

        3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          JOe-kaMALLA HARris-biDEN

          I see what you did there.

        4. avatar JOMALLA HARDIN says:

          I see what you did there

          SSSHHHHHHHH.. it’s a seekret.

    3. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

      JOMALLA HARDIN?

      Is there any chance you are related to Celeste Hardin?

      “I gots to know”… 😉

      1. avatar JOMALLA HARDIN says:

        NO, see explanation above.

        1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          Thank God.

          Celeste was a ‘real piece of work’, if you know what I mean… 😉

        2. avatar JOMALLA HARDIN says:

          I think I get I get your drift wink-wink nod-nod…

    4. avatar Paul says:

      Please, do turn Beto loose. Send him out all by himself to confiscate guns. And, please, send him to my house. I’ll happily give him my guns, bullets first.

  8. avatar No one of consequence says:

    In principle, only Congress can establish or modify a tax.

    In practice the executive branch executes collection of that tax. So a president could, say, direct the IRS to not collect a given tax (or, more precisely, defund all effort for collection) such as the payroll tax. This is not the same as changing the tax rate or the fact that it’s due; Congress would still need to pass a law making the payroll tax zero for the period of time it wasn’t collected, and mitigate any associated non-payment penalties.

    For comparison, only a city council (or board of supervisors, etc.) can defund the local PD, but the mayor can order the PD to stand down even if they are being paid.

  9. avatar cg123m says:

    Considering that Biden’s plan is to get AR’s and Magazines classified as NFA items and apply the 200$ stamp to them, he could theoretically try this, though it would be met with rampant resistance.

    The question is, can he convince the ATF to do a more extreme version of legal gymnastics to find a way to make an AR/magazine NFA? We didn’t think the ATF could do it on braces, but here we are.

    Hopefully, one of the Brace Ban Court Cases makes its way high enough in the courts to be shot down before the next president decides to “do something” and “let the courts sort it out”.

    Other than that, unless the ATF is involved, I cannot imagine gun vendors being even willing to apply a tax on firearms/ammunition sales if there is a public narrative that it might be illegal. There is widespread noncompliance of parts of Washington I-1639 outside of Seattle metro, so I imagine you would see much of the same nationwide.

    1. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

      I assume you meant bump stocks. Or has there been some solid action against braces that I missed?

      1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

        Nothing since Rep. Geatz’s publicity stunt a while back, AFAIK. I search every few weeks for later developments and come up empty. Of course, he can claim that his letter scared them into dropping it….

      2. avatar cg123m says:

        You’re right I meant bump stock!

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      easier to pass a new AWB…after all, it has been done before…and passed judicial review…

  10. avatar WI Patriot says:

    “Could a President Biden Tax Guns and Ammo by Executive Order?”

    In a word, no…

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Certainly not mine!

  11. avatar John A. Smith says:

    Wow, it’s almost like Trump’s authoritarian actions as president might be used as justification for a similar expansion by subsequent presidents with whom we me not agree.

    Who would have though that actions to undermine Congressional authority would have negative long-term consequences?

    I mean, it’s almost like those Republicans who opposed executive fiat might have been on to something when they said Trump was a dangerous threat to the conservative cause in the long run.

    1. avatar John A. Smith says:

      we *may not agree

      1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        That’s been true since the mad dictator Lincoln, nothing new.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      The most dangerous thing to the conservative cause in the long run is conservatives.

      Conservatives don’t rock the boat; they prefer relax into the status quo. Meanwhile, progressive “liberals” are always pushing the envelope so that whenever so-called conservatives are back in the driver’s seat, they’re preserving a status quo that reflects someone else’s agenda. Wash, rinse, repeat.

      Conservative politicians just roll over whenever the press gets loud: “If we do something they don’t like, they’ll call us names. That would be uncivil, and we’re not uncivil jerks, so we’ll just go along with it.” The simps fail to fight, and uncivil jerks and leftist ideologues control the national conversation. Wash, rinse, repeat.

      This is how you get Trump — the only guy with an R next to his name who is willing to fight. But a lot of conservatives are still convinced that this time, Lucy really will let Charlie Brown kick that football.

  12. avatar former water walker says:

    Kamaltoe er slow Joe can try…try to enforce that illegal order. Fun times with guns😏

  13. avatar JP Ruiz says:

    In the hypothetical scenario of the Democrats sweeping it all in November; Biden as POTUS, Democrat House, and Democrat Senate,…….they will then Pack the SCOTUS by adding more Judges (they’ve already stated that they will),……..and then Biden and Harris will rule as 2 petty dictators.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      Plans include many other extreme changes as well that would guarantee democrat control for a generation or more. I believe they’ll need more than just a slim majority to be able to enact that.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      they may try…but FDR, at the height of his power… couldn’t pull it off…..

  14. avatar Dude says:

    Remember when congress couldn’t pass something for years so Obama used his pen and phone to do it for them? Then the Supreme Court wouldn’t let the next president undo an unconstitutional EO because…he didn’t have a good enough reason to do so?

  15. avatar Prndll says:

    This is being asked without any consideration to the tax on healthcare that Obama gave us.

  16. avatar Model 31 says:

    Time to establish precedent. Trump needs to make state sales tax on ammo illegal and make health insurance premiums federal income tax deductible in the same executive order. Let the President reduce healthcare costs and let the democrats sue to increase healthcare costs cause gunz.

  17. avatar tommy2fer says:

    Wouldn’t that be viewed as a poll tax……illegal…..to hinder a right???

  18. avatar RGP says:

    Trump is restrained by law. Democrats do not consider the law to be applicable, so “President Biden” could theoretically do anything he wants, if the practically nonexistent opposition to the past several years of left wing governmental misconduct is any indicator.

  19. avatar enuf says:

    Could a President Biden Tax Guns and Ammo by Executive Order?

    No and yes and no. He can write and proclaim anything he feels like writing and proclaiming. Which would be rapidly followed by lawsuits and the Supreme Court would give the President an education on which branch of the government writes the tax laws.

    So , yeah, sure he could try. It wouldn’t stick if he did try.

  20. avatar jayk74 says:

    Couldn’t most semi auto guns be banned because of the bumpstock ban, as federal law stipulates that any gun that is “readily convertible“ to be a “machinegun” are treated as machineguns, and now that the atf decided that stocks = machineguns, couldn’t they at some point decide that all ARs and AKs are “readily convertible“ machineguns and end up getting banned?

    1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      Never seen an AK with a bump stock.. And ARs have always been “convertible” if you can get the parts, in fact companies are selling three round burst kits now.. (of course that is IF your gun was already equipped and proper stamps are in hand “wink-wink”)

      1. avatar Jayk74 says:

        I mean yes the burst/auto parts kits are being sold, but since it involves machining and drilling the receiver, doesn’t that make it not considered “readily convertible”?

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          but since it involves machining and drilling the receiver

          Don’t know what kit you are talking about, my experience was was a pretty simple matter of replacing the trigger and hammer… No machining or drilling

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          From what I recall, you’re talking about two different things. The original version of select fire used a receiver with additional holes (hence “machining”), but there were also such things as “drop in auto sears”, which were just what they sounded like, just like a drop in trigger, remove all things trigger and replace with a new unit, and you have select fire with no drilling. About a jillion were produced and registered, then locked up in a safe deposit box, since they cost around $200, plus $200 tax stamp, and will convert any AR to a $20,000+ select fire LEGALLY! Selling one for $10,000-15,000 would take about 3 moments.

      2. avatar possum says:

        A tiny piece of spring steel shaped like an L underneath the trigger disconnecter tensioned just right will make a MAK90 slam fire brrrrrrrrrrp

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          WHY???

        2. avatar frank speak says:

          there are probably as many unregistered as registered drop in auto-sears out there…not to mention all those easy to make copies of lightning links…..

    2. avatar enuf says:

      You don’t need any parts to bumpfire a semi-auto rifle. It’s a technique first and a gadget second. The gadget is supposed to make it easier. But it is such a simple thing, anyone can make a bump stock out of very basic materials that can be found in any home improvement store for under $10.

      The AR-15 is especially easy to do this

      1. avatar possum says:

        Shoe string

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      theoretically…but the major imbalance in numbers argues against it…noncompliance would be massive…and just how many bump-stocks have been turned in or destroyed?…this idea was bandied about back in the eighties…and rejected for just that very reason….

  21. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    If elected Joe braindead won’t serve 6 months into his first term as he will be declared BrainDead.

    1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      Which will leave us with konfiskatin (I’ll give congress 100 days then I’ll do it myself) Kamala with HER VP (Hillary? BERNIE? POCAHONTAS ? NANCY?) fun times and happy days…. thank God AOC still has three or four years til she is old enough..

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      anyone who chooses to vote democratic has no illusions who they are actually voting for…and she’s as phony as a three dollar bill…they’ve already smelled her out in her home state…now it’s up to the rest of us to do the same…..

  22. avatar Qwerty says:

    You can’t tax a right. Remember “The poll tax” used as a way to keep the poor from voting.

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      You pay sales tax on your guns and ammo?

  23. The only way the Democrats can win is to steal it with their mail in ballot conspiracy. They never came up against a stable genius like me. The mailboxes have been rounded up. The sorting machines pulled and the electric wires removed from the rooms so they can’t be put back. Those socialists couldn’t compete with me at election stealing on their best day.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      EXCELLENT!! Only around 6 months until the opening of the Trump 2024 campaign! If DemoCommies can ignore the Constitution, so can we!

  24. avatar Ralph says:

    If Trump really wants to tr0ll Basement Joe, POTUS should suggest a special tax on Depends.

    1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      And Ritalin…

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Denture paste.

  25. avatar GS650G says:

    President Harris will sign lots of EOs Around May next year as soon as Joe is out of the way. Letting Willie Brown violate her will seem like a great idea for her career.

    1. avatar CREEPYJOE says:

      I already promised Kammy I’d step aside as soon as I took the oath and signed the order to publicly execute Orange Man… either by a massive exposure to the WuFlu OR OD on his hydroxychloroquine… She’s picking her VP at this very moment..

  26. avatar Bob Wyman says:

    Taxation without representation? That started a revolution once and we won. Are the British back again? They have no power here unless they are The Beatles.

    1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      Taxation without representation

      technically you have a representative, whether YOU voted for him/her or not..

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Right, but we’ve been getting taxed illegally since immediately after the tea party, so…

      All in the name of modernization. Society sucks. Natives live off the land. We live on it. I’d be all for going back to frontier days, but I don’t think the rest of the world enjoys it very much. Just look at them, face down as they walk, cell phones in hand commenting on r/politics.

  27. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    I think the better way to ask it would be.
    Could a President Kamalface Hairyazz Tax Guns and Ammo by Executive Order?
    As Biden won’t last 6 months in office.

    1. avatar raccoon says:

      Kameltoe Harris will certainly raise taxes, the socialists need all that money for the “free” stuff.

  28. avatar possum says:

    he’s biden his time until she takes over. Normally I do not vote however this time as much as I do not like Trump, “orange man bad” gets mine this time.

    1. avatar raccoon says:

      That’s what this once great country has become sadly, you must pick the lesser of 2 evils. Trump really is a fraud,, and acts like a social media drama queen, it’s embarrassing but Biden president makes me want to puke just to think about it.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        one is status-quo…the other is God knows what….

  29. avatar Punt Kamala's Cunt says:

    I wanna punch and stomp Creepy Pedo Joe’s stupid fuckin face in ☺

  30. avatar Fight For 2nd Amendment says:

    I’m building a AR style 9mm with 8.5in barrel and a brace that is less than 13in trigger to end of brace. Have ATF made them illegal? I haven’t heard anything thing that they are outlawed?

  31. avatar Geoff says:

    Biden cannot tax anything by EO. The authority to lay taxes is given to Congress in the Constitution.
    Article 1 Section 8.
    Section 8
    Clause 1
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    President Trump’s EO did not change the payroll tax, only defer it. The tax is still law.

  32. avatar JUST THE FACTS! says:

    100 Million Commies will disappear over night…

  33. avatar Burley says:

    Only if we let him. What’s the point of the 2A if we do?

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