Late Friday, two Democratic party lawmakers introduced HB23-1230 ‘Prohibit Assault Weapons In Colorado’ which defines the term “assault weapon” and prohibits sales and ownership transfers. …
Within HB23-1230, an “assault weapon” is defined as a firearm that includes any of the following:
- .50 caliber rifle, excluding antiques, shotguns, and muzzle-loading firearms
- a semiautomatic rifle
- that accepts a detachable magazine, or may be modified to accept one
- has a pistol grip
- with a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand
- with a folding, telescoping, thumbhole, or detachable stock
- with a flash suppressor
- with a functional grenade launcher
- with a shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel
- with a threaded barrel
- with a fixed large-capacity magazine (more than 15 rounds as defined by CRS 18-12-301)
- a semiautomatic pistol
- that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, or may be modified to accept one
- with a second pistol grip
- with a shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel
- with a flash suppressor
- with the capacity to accept a detachable ammunition-feeding device at some location outside of the pistol grip
- that weighs more than 50 ounces when unloaded
- with a buffer tube, arm brace, or other part that protrudes horizontally behind the pistol grip
- with a fixed large-capacity magazine
- a shotgun with a revolving cylinder
- a semiautomatic shotgun
- with a pistol grip
- with any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand
- with a folding, telescoping, thumbhole, or detachable stock
- with a functional grenade launcher
- with a fixed large-capacity magazine
- with the capacity to accept a detachable magazine
- a semiautomatic firearm that has the capacity to accept a belt ammunition feeding device
- any firearm with a rapid-fire trigger activator
The bill also has a provision for someone who has the parts to make a complete weapon, with the definition of “any combination of parts from which an assault weapon may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.”
Excluded from the bill are rimfire weapons, such as a .22 caliber pistol or rifle.
– Benjamin Lloyd in Colorado Lawmakers to Consider Bill That Would Define and Prohibit ‘Assault Weapons’
Colorado democrats be like ignorant and crazy.
Wasn’t it a CO Dem that thought you couldn’t reload magazines and once you shot all the rounds out of it you threw it away?
Probably has something to do with the high potency weed they sell there.
“…that thought you couldn’t reload magazines and once you shot all the rounds out of it you threw it away? ”
I remember reading that in the statements of some politician, can’t remember who right now.
This happened in Maryland 2013 (when the “Firearm Safety Act” was enacted). This former State Trooper relates his experience with a seasoned Politician who was voting for this legislation which among many other things limited our Magazine Capacity to 10 rounds.
dianne degette.what an idiot.
“One of the notable aspects of the democratic process is that one need not know anything about a subject in order to pass laws about it.” – the late COL Jeff Cooper.
Yep – it was some dipshit in Denver who dreamed that up.
Wait…I can RELOAD my magazines? I have like 19 in my recycling bin right now. I was starting to wonder how anyone could afford this hobby.
“Wait…I can RELOAD my magazines?”
No. You can’t. People telling you different here are lying to you. Once you shoot an entire magazine of ammunition, the magazine, from heat transfer, becomes conformed to your firearm, unusable in any other gun.
It’s called physics, or maybe it is biology. Regardless….
RE: “Colorado Lawmakers to Consider Bill That Would Define and Prohibit ‘Assault Weapons’ ”
The above fearless, pompous so called Lawmakers certainly have no problem whatsoever Lying Out Their Sick Behinds to “Define” Assault Weapon.
Unfortunately the road to the above tyranny was paved by dead silent Gun Owners who failed to “Define Gun Control” as a History Confirmed Agenda Rooted in Racism and Genocide. Let’s hope they know how to defend themselves better than they know how to defend the 2A.
Our own AWB here in CA (Miller v. Bonta) is on the verge of being struck down for good, and has certainly been in the spotlight for a while. I sometimes wonder if Dems in other States are even paying attention as they craft their own similar legislation.
Or, as has been suggested here at times, perhaps they’re simply using the strategy of knowingly passing laws they know are constitutionally shaky, but will require time and money to be spent from pro-2A orgs to challenge each one of them. A sort of hope that freedom lovers will become exhausted and eventually accept the tyranny.
Meanwhile they’re spending the taxpayers’ money to fight the legal battles…
“Meanwhile, they’re spending MY taxpayer money…”
I have a close friend of many years, now sitting in the CO State Senate. While greatly concerned, it’s a 23(D) to 12(R) majority for the idiots. The Colorado Supreme Court will give no relief, maybe at the 10th. Best hope is when they get to the Supremes in, what, 2026.
Notice there’s no provision for those who already have (now) legal semi-auto firearms to keep them. My immediate hope is a sheriff who has better things to do.
PS – These are the same nitwits who voted for wolf introduction and preservation, except where THEY live.
wolf introduction and preservation, except where THEY live.
Wolf goes where the Wolf wants to go; they can range over 100s of miles… Even where “THEY” live…
My dream is that one day, when wolves are in abundance, that I snag about a dozen, and let loose a half-dozen on the Pearl Street Mall, and LODO, to feast on poodles and CU Liberal scum.
My dream is that one day, let loose a half-dozen on the Pearl Street Mall
Sounds like a worthy goal… goals are good.
Starry-eyed leftists across the world and through the depths of time are eternally hopeful that their failed policies will work *this* time, if only they can convince the right people – Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che – all figured that previous Leftists did it wrong, and THEY had it all figured out. Authoritarians like Schumer, Feinstein, Swalwell, et. al, are simply the most recent manifestations of the same failed thinking, and they will continue to introduce flawed, unconstitutional legislation even as the courts continue to strike it down. Because “this” law will stick….
Their aim is to put a smiley face on tyranny.
or resort to removing the offending politicians…permanently and completely.
H 5300 in the Rhode Island General Assembly is almost exactly the same. Any magazine-fed semi-automatic rifle or pistol is banned for possession, sale, or transfer. They’ve generously included a provision where you can individually register each firearm for a $25 fee, not including the FBI background check ($), the fingerprinting requirement ($) for each weapon… so you can keep what you own… until they decide you can’t.
An Obama appointed Federal judge just approved the RI magazine ban by concluding magazines aren’t firearms, so they’re not covered by Heller or Bruen.
Same with the current bill that is passing thru both Houses in Washington State…nearly the same language, with both semiauto pistols and shotguns included in the ban along with rifles.
yadda, yadda, yadda….whatever…
Straight up communism. The Colorado communists need to be removed from power root and stem.
The locusts that fled Kalifornia to infest Colorado are moving on to greener pastures in the surrounding states. Unfortunately, thay also take their voting habits with them. A buddy of mine near Orem has learned all about TIFs and is in the process of being taxed off of property he’s owned for over 30 years.
Ban on all semi-auto handguns? Oh, that’ll survive constitutional scrutiny.
“Ban on all semi-auto handguns? Oh, that’ll survive constitutional scrutiny.”
But, meanwhile chaos reigns; which is the intent.
I suspect that there will just be non-compliance and the libs will act like they did something for a bit before just ignoring that it doesn’t change a goddamn thing. Just like the mag ban.
Nearly a decade of “high capacity magazines” being banned and yet I can buy them at any gun store that’s not part of a major chain.
Thats like all guns that arent a 22 ? Would that be the most “banned” bill of all the ban bills yet?
I mean they’re pretty much saying you cant have a centerfire ?
22? Centerfire? Not really. Just most of the most popular firearms.
You get the Tyranny you allow to RULE you.
I never really liked John Denver.
Never liked his music much, but it was pretty cool when he teamed up with Twisted Sister’s Dee Snider to put Tipper Gore in her place.
lots of good prmc footage. zappa, f’rinstance.
And the smackdown delivered by Dee Snyder is epic!
The hearing organizers did not do their homework.
Colorado used to be a nice place…before this human cancer showed-up…
Lotta places out west, before the libs showed up. Like California goals, just not paying for them, so leave. I’m one, just not a lib. Utah is still about the safest place to keep firearms left. Mormons tend to be right wing.
Sad Thing is … It will most likely pass.
Followed immediately by a federal court injunction and eventual overturn costing CO taxpayers several million dollars to fight.
You are most likely correct sir. Too bad there isn’t a federal law that states that the bill’s sponsors must pay the legal fees to defend the law they sponsored.
Tar and feathers also work in a pinch.
And enriching their lawyer buddies. Very convenient collusion. All that is needed is kickbacks from the lawyers to the politicians to complete the circle.
That’s their intent, the bankruptcy of 2A supporters. Tax dollars support the Legislation, then Tax Dollars defend the legislation, and finally Tax dollars pay the restitution when the legislation is overturned. Add in the Donnations used to challenge the legislation all the way to SCOTUS, and the “win” has really hit our pockets hard.
Frankly, it would be cheaper to hire a Sicario to take out those pushing their Bull Schit. Not that I’m advocating such an extreme move, just pointing out an obvious fact.
FTA: “This isn’t your stereotypical semi-auto ban targeting firearms like AR-15s and AK-47s – this ban will also restrict the purchase of most semi-automatic pistols and shotguns. This the line in the sand and I’m asking every single freedom loving Coloradoan to stand with us and demand their legislators and Gov. Polis oppose this horrendous bill,” said Rhodes.
Wait, this is your line in the sand? Really? So if they remove one thing, you’ll be ok with the bill?
That stood out for me also! WTF!
That’s a lot on unnecessary words to say “any centerfire semi auto of any type plus the Street Sweeper which was never a thing anyway”.
Is the CO lege completely controlled by the communist traitors? Are there any patriots at all there? I’d like to think that this doesn’t stand a chance but experience tells me otherwise.
YES! They have a veto prof majority in the house. In the senate they hold a 1 vote shy veto prof majority. Not that the Governor would veto it. Governor Polis would do anything the left wants, as he has his eye on being President in 2024. Hell he probably has already measured the drapes. This State Government is the most anti Constitution body the state has ever had( Thank you California). Among other things that demonstrate the level of incompetence is the fact that the AG’s office backs this bill, telling KNUS news that ” it is wholly Constitutionally acceptable” . They will spend millions of taxpayer money defending this in Federal court and lose and no one will be held accountable.
On a lighter note, it did motivate me to go and buy 5 new weapons that Mrs Echo says I didn’t need (need? need? whats need have to do with it?) jsut because THEY say I can’t have them.
Ask Mrs Echo how many pairs of shoes she needs.
Just what we need … President Pol-smoker … Brought to you by mummy and daddies money and commie degenerates.
Yes. and they’ve been in total control for years now. Liberals own the entirety of the I-25 Corridor Communities from Pueblo, all the way to the Coloradi/Wyoming border.
The Outlying Communities and Rural Colorado have very little voice in the Legislature. Colorado’s Supreme Court is entirely Left wing. Thus, there will be no Injunction against or overturning of the legislation until it reaches the 10th Appellate Court.
Does this also take out the .17 Rimfires? As the only exception seems to be the .22’s.
I’m not sure where everyone is seeing centerfire and 22?
I’m reading rimfire .22’s.
Now a company to make .22-50BMGRF
ha ha mister smarty pants
Few companies that make firearms don’t have a 22 in semiauto version with a detachable magazine. Most 22’s would be banned under this. Very few wouldn’t be. Heritage might be ok.
Harry M. Pope Made one of those, but sadly it was still a centerfire.
From the linked article as quoted above: “Excluded from the bill are rimfire weapons, such as a .22 caliber pistol or rifle.”
“…or a firearm that can only fire rimfire ammunition”
This does not specify .22 so I’m still not seeing that but If we are to be given these things, it would be nice if it didn’t require so much work to get to. Not to mention that it took THAT long to be directed to that. For that I say thank you. All I wanted was to get an answer to the question. You did that so I’m moving on.
The two mentions of “rimfire” and/or “.22” are in the Definitions section.
“‘ASSAULT WEAPON’ DOES NOT INCLUDE…A FIREARM THAT CAN ONLY FIRE RIMFIRE AMMUNITION.”
“‘FIXED MAGAZINE’ DOES NOT INCLUDE AN ATTACHED TUBULAR DEVICE DESIGNED TO ACCEPT, AND CAPABLE OF OPERATING ONLY WITH, .22 CALIBER RIMFIRE AMMUNITION.”
The language is a bit awkward, but it appears that it doesn’t apply to any rimfire only firearms in one subsection, while exempting only .22 caliber rimfire (i.e., not .17 rimfires) in another. Thankfully, it will eventually be thrown out if it passes and is signed into law.
The language is a bit awkward…
Reading the whole thing it feels more like a middle school paper than a proposed law. But it is the latter.
They’re educated. Follow the science. Ask no questions.
Maybe we can get all of the commies in one or 3 places, be like shooting fish in a barrel. I wanted to see Colorado before I passed, don’t reckon that’s going to happen now. If it passes reckon they will go door to door, get everyone to rat out each other? Sounds like living the dream.
Illannoy to Colorado: hold my beer🙄 We have a good friend who grew up in Colorado. Everyone had a gat and open carry cowboys were common she tells us. They allowed Commiefornia azzwholes to take control. These dumb Dims are itching for a showdown…with folk’s with lots of gats!
Do to the politicians what almost every tech in the world wants done to the Microsoft Office and Exchange development teams.
Gather them up in the same building, lock the doors, and burn it down to the ground.
Always the same strategy. Cut off based on calibre, energy, color, mag capacity, action type, whatever. The plan is full confiscation in steps.
Guess I’ll scratch CO from my bucket list. 🙂
Same here. Wonder if I could carry my slingshot without getting nicked by the fuzz? Pathetic waste of time and tax dollars.
Guess I’ll scratch CO from my bucket list
Been there done that, you’re not missing anything… Do S. Dakota, southern Wyoming and just pretend it’s CO…
Do legislators have qualified immunity for the stupid bills they try to pass? This is definitely one to be litigated, costing the taxpayers a lot of money. It seems to me that if the lawmakers could be held personally liable for the ensuing cost of litigation of blatantly unconstitutional bills, a lot of this foolishness would go away.
and now I want a grenade launcher for my shotgun.
They clearly see a need to stop the recent wave of attacks using launched grenades.
Wait… I thought it was chainsaws mounted on ARs. Geeze
Suddenly more interested in the Noveske Chainsaw….
The true dem/lib target? NO guns…period.
Yes but they will never achieve it.
The true dem/lib target? NO guns…period.
Ruger 10/22’s and Ruger Marks 1-4…All banned and are 22’s
Ruger Wrangler…NOT banned
This idea that 22’s are a thing here is confusing.
.223 is centerfire and gets banned for AR’s but not for bolt actions. 12ga is also centerfire and gets accepted for double barrel shotguns but not for designs with revolving magazines. S&W Airweights become allowed but no revolvers in 50cal.
Well I guess they better get more cops and bring in the army because they are going to have to arrest half the population of Colorado if they pass that unconstitutional law. Democrats have no idea how big a hole they are digging for themselves. I doubt seriously if most law enforcement would even bother with trying to enforce those laws. Funny how these people think its ok to ban things that have been legal for years in the name of safety and when crime has only spiked because of THEIR policies. A real joke and they are really looking to start a civil war by their actions.
Isn’t that how all the other commie takeovers happen? One world government.
Prohibits sales and ownership transfers? Does that mean it doesn’t prohibit actual ownership?
The red states need to be opening gun stores right across the border from CO, in the same way that Illannoy and other states are importing abortions from other states.
Yes, that’s what it means.
And yes, it’s going to end up just like the mag ban, basically unenforceable unless you tape a sales-slip to the gun.
Cops might use it as a sweetener charge in murders, attempted murders, bank robberies and other violent felonies involving a gun that “breaks the rules” and ignore it other than that. Which would be just like the mag ban.
Does this mean I can’t have a broom handle Mauser? And I guess an artillery Luger w/snail drum magazine is out of the question.
I always loved the “may be modified to” qualifier.
With enough effort anything can be modified to do anything. I imagine the legislature has some imaginary demarcation akin to the 80%-0% receiver nonsense.
Basically saying you must be this stupid to enjoy this right but not so stupid you’re a danger to yourself or others. Looking for that Goldilocks zone of stupidity at which you may most easily be governed.
Colorado at least has some sense. They excluded rimfire contrary to Washington that defines all semi-auto rifles as an assault weapon.
Rimfire has NOT been excluded.
I really don’t see the problem. Clearly this is what the electorate in Colorado wanted when they voted. The same goes for all the other lefty states. If you don’t care about your rights and vote for representatives hell bent on taking your rights away, then oh well. If you live in a state which tramples on your rights and you don’t like it then move to a state which better aligns with your desires. Leave your ignorant neighbors behind.
Do you honestly believe you can trust the count? Do you believe the most secure election in history?
Naive. Do you believe that ANY election has not been rigged or is not tampered with in one way or another?
Download your Voting app @ Google Play Store
The problem being that “lefty states” export their bullshit to other states.
And when you look at the demos of this country, they have the people to do it. This is why it is actually true that there “are no blue states, only blue cities that control red states”.
And yes, they have the numbers to take over pretty much every state in the union, including Texas and Florida.
It’s all part of the NEW plan of attack, keep passing one dumbass law after another to flood the SCOTUS with nonsense, if they can’t beat us, they will try to make us wish we had never fucked with the “status quo”… This cannot stand and they know it…
This will be another unconstitutional attempt by Leftists to control the people.
“with a shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel”
That would ban all rifles! (with the exception of the 1860 Henry rifle, which had no forearm).
Every rifle (except the 1860 Henry) has a forearm, which these Dems ridiculously call a “shroud” or a “shoulder thing that goes up.”
Why the F do Democrats keep trying to ban essential safety features like forearms on rifles?
Are they that stupid that they don’t realize it would ban all rifles, or do they seriously want to ban all rifles?
I was thinking about the AR7 but that is a semi-auto with a detachable magazine.
I think “partially encircles” was imagined to mean the full circumference but only partial length (like a Garand), the partially encircling bit being a refinement of the subject “shroud”. Of course by that logic some dim bulb will probably arrest someone with a full length but partial circumference Mannlicher Stock even though that isn’t a shroud. So anything with a forearm like you said might be attempted at some point, though I don’t think that was intended.
Stuck, with the Leftist DEMONcRATS it is all about CONTROL of the people. Reminisce, if you will what happens in dictatorships throughout the world. The idea is that in order to control the people, they must limit who can own a firearm. That is the bottom line.
Are they that stupid that they don’t realize it would ban all rifles, or do they seriously want to ban all rifles?
Is this really a question in 2023?
P.O.S.I.W.I.D. (The Point Of a System Is What I Does) FFS.
Yes, they (Democrat-socialist lawmakers in this country) really want to ban ALL firearms. If you believe otherwise, you best go read all of the writings of Karl Marx. In his writings, he states that none of the changes needed to create a socialist society can be implemented until the people are disarmed. Armed people can resist, Unarmed people cannot.
Marx makes a distinction here.
In his Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League given in London in March of 1850 Marx said this:
To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party, whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the very first hour of victory, the workers must be armed and organized. The whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old-style citizens’ militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed. Where the formation of this militia cannot be prevented, the workers must try to organize themselves independently as a proletarian guard, with elected leaders and with their own elected general staff; they must try to place themselves not under the orders of the state authority but of the revolutionary local councils set up by the workers. Where the workers are employed by the state, they must arm and organize themselves into special corps with elected leaders, or as a part of the proletarian guard. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary. The destruction of the bourgeois democrats’ influence over the workers, and the enforcement of conditions which will compromise the rule of bourgeois democracy, which is for the moment inevitable, and make it as difficult as possible – these are the main points which the proletariat and therefore the League must keep in mind during and after the approaching uprising.
He’s not against guns, and no good Marxist today is. They simply have a different opinion on who should have them. They get guns, you don’t.
Simply replace “workers” in every instance of the quote above with “revolutionaries” and you get what he meant instead of what he specifically said. You also see, based on the first part I bolded, why they argue that the National Guard is the militia.
It is good to see that someone else has read Karl Marx and UNDERSTANDS him. It should be required reading for ALL POTG.
The barrel on my rifle is free floating. The shroud is specifically not attached to the barrel.
or that partially or completely encircles the barrel…
MmmmHmmmmm, Bet it partially or completely ENCIRCLES the barrl though, huh…
they want all these anti gun laws on the books
and ready to go
for when the next conservative scotus justice “dies”
Looks similar to the Illinois ban. Well, these commiecrats do work together across state lines to push their restrictions.
You guys replaced “and” with “or”. The law doesn’t ban semi auto pistols unless they have a detachable magazine and one of the features listed. It’s unconstitutional law but this also bad reporting. There’s plenty of actual reasons to fight this law, this is not one of them.
I was wondering when someone besides me would notice this!!! The wording is has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine WITH another listed feature, which would not include standard pistols like the one in the article photo.
TLDR : simply ignore any/all laws that infringe on your fights.
I can’t wait to ignore this law until it’s struck down.
What I find more concerning is tangential to this. For those paying attention locally, there’s a running battle in CO between urban and rural where the urbanites have gotten very ballsy at this point because of the influx of Californians to the urban areas.
The result is suboptimal at best. For example; folks like the “hard news” guys from News9 (a Denver local TV station) are openly needling politicians from the Western slope with backing from urban people who are openly talking about using the “National Guard” and “tanks” to enforce their will on the rural rubes.
This level of animosity has resulted in people testifying before the State Legislature openly calling members “tyrants”, which is, of course, fueling the Lefties to say that such people are “insurrectionists” and subtly (or not) suggest that lethal force may be on the table against such people.
This is against a backdrop of the State’s energy policy being bonkers to the point that last month people with electric baseboard heat were getting $3000 electric bills for <1800sqft houses. Rising food prices, and gas prices that are affected in some areas by the EPA suing SunCorp to keep their refinery shut down over "decades" of "civil rights violations" of the people who live anywhere near the plant. The pols and policy "wonks" assured us that this would not affect the price of gas as the price shot up $0.60/gal on the day. This is combined with, uh, shall we say "issues" in the urban areas. Like that Denver's a complete and utter shithole and has half the people-traffic it did in 2019. Or numerous other cities shutting down libraries due to methamphetamine contamination because they can't keep meth heads from sparking up a pipe in the bathrooms and it's getting into the HVAC systems.
And, of course that's against the national backdrop of 6+ major problems that cannot help but affect Colorado going forward, raising the temperature in the room even further.
The contempt on both sides of things is becoming apparent. Without a relief valve, which is the last thing that the Left wants at this point, something will break soon enough. And of course, the Right is starting to view what's going on with all of this as the State ignoring the problems in favor of gun control for the purpose of ensuring they can abuse the population without blowback.
Denverites seem content to punch everyone else in the face and then admonish the victims for having the gall to run their face into the Denverites' fist. Call it "crybulling" or "abuse" as you wish.
Interesting fuckin' times and I doubt they get less interesting in the near to medium term.
“…there’s a running battle in CO between urban and rural where the urbanites have gotten very ballsy at this point because of the influx of Californians to the urban areas.”
Eternally grateful I knew Denver/Colorado back when it was free of Californication.
I love all the “get what you voted for” comments. I mean, I get some people are “stuck” in some states, but every election since the beginning of elections has been rigged. Doesn’t change the fact you are living in a state that will constantly take your rights away and some are worse than others, but it’s naive to think in this modern day and age that people still believe their vote matters.
Best thing you can do is live rural and prepare to ruby ridge when/if they ever come for you.
Even with non-rigged elections California has the population to swing your state blue.
They may have already accomplished it with Texas. A cycle or two for the recent transplants to forget what they fled and 40 EC votes get added to Team Blue.
And Cali doesn’t even need to lose EC votes to do it, that’s why they’re a sanctuary state. They increase their population via illegals and those people count for EC votes and Congressional seats.
Those millions of illegals coming in every year now are popping out American citizens at a dizzying rate while established citizens have stopped having babies. What could go wrong? We have an open border for a reason. It has nothing to do with compassion. In fact, it’s the opposite of compassion. As usual, they’re gaslighting us.
That’s a can of worms. A big one. I agree with you like… 90% but IMHO it’s important to pay attention to the 10% when it’s highly important. 90% success in survival is still 100% dead.
There are a few reasons for the Left allowing that and some of them make sense at a surface level of analysis (which is about as far as your average Lefty can go on a good day). I’ll do the two big ones, mostly just one.
Obviously there’s the census advantage for “sanctuary states”. That has a built in political advantage to it.
But then there’s the economic argument that we need the workers. That argument has a grain of truth at its core but ultimately the treatment is worse than the disease. This is what makes this argument so damned dangerous, is the myopic focus on that grain of truth.
On the one hand we do have a demographic problem. That’s not up for debate. The entire developed world (and China, which is by far the worst due to their “one child” policy) have this problem. The population pyramid is inverted. This is usually linked to urbanization and while that’s not entirely causative IMHO, it’s a big part of it.
On top of that this year the average Boomer retires, it’s all downhill for labor availability from here for the next 10-15 years. Boomers are the largest population we’ve ever had and they’re followed by GenX which is a much smaller population. You then get a larger population of Millennials and then a smaller one of Zoomers. Gen Alpha isn’t done being born yet so… we’ll see about that.
Under our current system, which assumes the pyramid never inverts, this creates a rolling problem of a large generation of retirees drawing on things like Social Security which is being MOSTLY funded by the smaller generation behind them. While the tax for (I’ll stick with SS like I normally do to not end up with multiple sets of numbers and no table to organize it) is 6.5% to the employee the “lock box” is a lie and that means it’s a transfer payment. That money comes mainly from people 50+ because statistically they have the higher incomes and therefore pay the most of the tax.
You simply cannot support a dependent population that’s significantly larger on the smaller population unless you pay the smaller population more or increase the tax rate to the point that you balance inflows and outflows. Both of these are inflationary pressures no matter how you cut it.
Now, you can offset some of the demographic problems with importing younger people (this is the surface level analysis that Lefties like).
But that only even comes close to working on paper (forget reality) if they’re skilled. These people are not. That means that if you imagine this “goes to plan” it’s a 40-50 year fix on a problem we already have. Like a TQ tomorrow for a GSW today, that will never work out well for the patient (but works out for you if you’re stingy with your TQs).
And the reality is that it won’t work anyway. Best case; What will actually happen is those currently imported in large numbers will go into blue collar work, not white collar work. This means that you’ll have labor inflation at the top of the working-age cohort/pay bracket due to shortage and labor deflation at the bottom due to labor oversupply.
The result of that is that people currently <40 are going to be murderously angry. They can't earn a remotely decent wage in blue collar work and outside some select STEM fields that require an advanced degree the college system is broken. On top of that, the jobs that 20 years ago paid well with a college degree are now often highly competitive due to an influx of H1B visa holders who will work for 1/3rd to 1/2 what an American can afford because that CompSci degree from the University of Mumbai was cheap compared to a US institution with a name that actually gets your resume past the first filter. Add to this the corporatization of medicine and you're basically left with fields like Molecular Bio (full disclosure, my current jam) that end up looking decent for the next 20 years.
But high schools don't teach math well enough for most kids to do that. Which, by the by, is how we got into this problem and is another perfect example of Conservatives taking a shot and tallying a miss. Shooting at the universities but missing the mark which is in K-12 and which has it's roots back in Schools of Ed, which is why even private schools have major issues today. But I digress, that's another topic.
IOW, for most young people their best option to have a shot at a middle class life is literally being an influencer on YouTube/Twitter/TheGram and they fuckin’ well know it. They are also decidedly unhappy about it. I hear about this hours a day, straight from them. But hey, MOAR power for big tech is what we need immediately, amirite?
And to be frank I am, quite honestly, shocked by the level of vitriol I hear from Zoomers about Boomers because they’re not a target of the Millennial/Boomer thing, so why do they even care?
Except that they are targets because the algos in the media they use promote things in a way that make it appear that no one over the age of 60 can tell the difference between a 20 year old and a 40 year old. (And in fact many can’t, there’s a large cohort of people now defining “Millennial” as basically “losers born after 1996”, which by definition means they’re going after Zoomers.) That ticks off the Zoomers, who have more in common with older Millennials than they do with younger Millennials, by a long shot. (Which, btw means they’re not woke, lazy or stupid but you’d never know that based on the media.) You now have three generations to pay for the largest ever and two of them hate the guts of the dependent generation. The third is about to be the target of a debate between taxing them into oblivion or raising the retirement age to 70, a political knife fight the Boomers will surely win based on numbers and the fact that about half of them are still in the workforce.
And, as I’ve pointed out before and am not happy to say, that doesn’t bode well for the Boomers who are statistically dependent as a cohort on people currently <40. That's, again, not up for debate. We have the numbers. And that's fuckin' dangerous because it's a great way to kill the Golden Goose that Boomers represent in several ways.
This leads into a big discussion of capital markets and the price of raising capital at the same time the Fed's policy is… unrealistic. This is something solvable in most cases but beyond the capacity of anyone in .gov to even begin to consider, never mind articulate.
Back to the political side:
Regardless, ultimately, the Left sees the census boost of importing people and has an argument for why it's good economically that's easy to buy if you're <90 IQ or just pay no attention. IRL, it will make things nearly infinitely worse because demographics and math are not to be denied their due respect without consequence.
Ultimately this means that you need to deal with the reality that actual inflation will be 10% or greater for the 10 years or so. What costs $100 today will be $259.37 at minimum. IRL we'll probably be closer to 15% and maybe for as long as 15 years. But whatever, fucked is as fucked does.
The question is how you want to deal with it once you realize that it's baked in. Again, there are answers to this but they defy the "common knowledge" of the past 60 years and so seem unworkable to people who define reality via baseline they personally know. What we can say for sure is that importing millions of low-skill people ain't the answer, they make this worse.
As I said six months ago. You're going to have some issues here. On the other side we either have paid a price and gotten an American Renaissance out of it or we've paid the price and we're all destitute.
Currently, the latter option is probably a 25:1 favorite in my estimation. The Dems only want power and a new American Renaissance doesn't give them that. Republicans are the same way. Both parties are only interested in doing what benefits The Party. Outside the parties themselves, in the population Lefties are idiots and Righties have no idea what's coming because they don't actually pay attention the way they claim to.
Ultimately, the political outcome is probably extremely suboptimal and the political outcome favors the Democrats very heavily and that favor is enhanced by the fact that demographic shifts within the country (people moving) favor them in the EC too.
For the calculating Leftist this is a cornucopia of potential. For everyone else it's a first class ticket to Zimbabwe circa 1997.
Can we flip that script? Yeah. Will we? I have my doubts, doubts strong enough that I own property outside this country specifically for these reasons.
“But high schools don’t teach math well enough”
Heck, grade schools don’t teach math well enough. My poor kids started school the same time Common Core began. I’m above average at math. When they began needing help with their math homework, I was like WTF is this?!? Thanks Bill Gates! No one learned their lesson from the Common Core disaster. Have you seen this below?
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is the only donor listed on a website for a group dedicated to eliminating racism from the nation’s math curriculum, which would be accomplished, in part, by eliminating the need for students to show their work after solving a math problem. 2/18/21
No! You’ve done enough damage! How do you solve math problems without writing it out? You use math equation solver apps! I tell my children to write out every single step on math problems because it’s easy to mess up by not doing so. I remember some of my problems filling up an entire page. How else could you solve it? They’re spending $1B dollars (making school admin and curriculum makers rich) so “black and brown” kids can cheat on math, get a passing grade, and go out into the world without any math skills. Thanks Bill!! Yes, I’m pissed even though my daughter is about to graduate.
Now that I think about it, I remember my algebra teacher giving partial credit for problems with the wrong answer. She would check your work, and notice where it went wrong. After the test or quiz, you go over it, see where you made the mistake, AND LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKE. They’re setting these poor kids up for failure. Everyone passes! /rant
Inflation: I just noticed the MSRP on a few vehicles went up about $1,000 in the past month. They almost always wait until the new model year to raise prices. Even then, $1,000 more without a substantial upgrade is a very big deal. They’re still lying about inflation, just like they did when it was imminent, and they said we won’t have inflation. Who got fired over that? No one. Jonathan Gruber (Obamacare architect) was right when he said American voters are stupid.
I think Dems absolutely love it when someone rings the alarm bell over SS. They immediately use it to their advantage by scaring the people who need it. That’s why it will never change.
We could use legal immigration to our advantage. We could vet people just like every other country in the world. We could only let someone in who could prove they would need zero government assistance. There would be a trial period. If they couldn’t hang, then they leave. They should be the ones paying for Americans. Dems will never stand for it because they wouldn’t be guaranteed future dem voters.
Flipping the script involves retaking and securing a few purple states. The state government would have to lock in extremely secure election laws. Once we have a few states locked in, a federal government majority would be a reality. Even with a Dem president, we’d have a conservative congress. The problem then becomes, Republicans have historically (my lifetime) sucked. That means remaking the party into a real moral, real conservative (not fake a la Bush/McCain/Romney, etc) party. People are sick and tired of the neocon failures. I think the party is ripe for a populist remaking.
I love these thoughtful replies. I’ll take a few bits of what you’ve said here and build off them, because you’re correct near the end but the real question here is like that old Notorious BIG song. How are you going to do it?.
Generally, I apply a few things to each subject I come across. Chesterton’s Fence, P.O.S.I.W.I.D, que bono and logic backed by research being the big ones.
I also tend to look at arguments in a dual sided way. Traditionally there are two reasons an argument comes to an incorrect conclusion, faulty logic or 1 (or more) bad premises. This is one side to logic and argument. However, there’s also the 3rd option/second side, which is that reality injects something you haven’t thought of, adding a premise you don’t know exists. Under such circumstances your logic and premise can both be flawless, yet the conclusion is still incorrect.
A pretty simple toolkit that yields many standard deviations better results that what “normies” do.
Your comments on math are spot on. The question is why.
I’d suggest to you that observing the outcomes of K-12 education and the voting patterns in Philadelphia (recent news that Phili has areas with 0 students reading at grade level, a statistical impossibility) explain this once you apply P.O.S.I.W.I.D and que bono.
Democrats have been in control for decades. Ignorant people are easy to control. This benefits the Party/people in control. Ergo, they want the school system to do what it does because they gain benefit from that. But now, let’s expand that idea.
“…right when he said American voters are stupid.”
I will argue this is untrue and it’s being untrue is ultimately the key to making your last paragraph a reality, provided we can get enough people to understand it. That requires a critical mass that’s hard to achieve but once achieved you can kick back and watch it roll forward.
First, I divide “silly” behavior into two buckets. “Dumb” and “stupid”. I divide those two by the root cause of the behavior. Dumb is due to ignorance or miseducation. Stupid is intrinsic, a sub-par brain. The latter isn’t fixable. It’s also really rather uncommon.
Which is say that “dumb” is taught behavior. Americans are, under this definition, not stupid. They’re dumb. Why?
Other than “because genetics doesn’t work that way”, well, Chesterton’s Fence mixed with P.O.S.I.W.I.D gives us a model answer.
Long standing issues in education cause problems that a normally functioning system would solve over time. This system doesn’t. It doesn’t because it’s not meant to. The fact that it survives as long as it does, and in fact gets worse over that time frame, means that Chesterton has given us the answer: This system’s output produces more value to someone, or some group, than it costs to produce that value. It’s a cost being paid for a greater return.
Now, examine education in general for a moment. A series of papers have been written on this that I’m going to simplify with two symbols, IQ and fIQ. IQ is what you’re used to, fIQ is the functional equivalent of IQ and basically reflects life/social capacity within society. High IQ doesn’t equal fIQ, though it’s somewhat predictive of it. It is possible to be “book smart, street dumb” though. The opposite is also true.
Now, we can’t change IQ but education is said to be able to change fIQ by about 1 standard deviation (sigma). That’s 15 points. IOW, you can take an average person of 100IQ and proper education can make them function in society as though they had a 115IQ. But note that I said change and didn’t specify the direction. Intentional miseducation can lower this average person to an fIQ of 85, taking them from normal to behaving as if they were born mentally challenged.
So, with your average person with a 100IQ you can have a two sigma difference in fIQ, and therefore a two sigma difference in ability to function in society. This is based primarily on education. Two sigma is fucking enormous. All swung in one direction that’s the difference between normal and gifted.
And when you see the population of schools in Phili and you apply a normal curve you realize that what’s going on has a 99.999999% chance of being by design. Otherwise you’d have at least 1 child in the system that was actually gifted and simply read at grade level due to this. That 0 stands out in statistics unless you ask the question specifically to get a 0 (same with a 1).
So, going back to that 99.999999% thing, fuck giving the Devil his due, it’s 100%. This is on purpose. No question.
And so, I argue, that Americans are not stupid. They’re dumb and they’re dumb by design because this benefits other people who are using this to their advantage. As Carlin said “They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don’t want that!”
Yuri Bezmenov also told you this back in the 1980’s and spoke in detail about how it was accomplished.
And, realizing all of this, you also realize that this is reversible. It’s harder to do than the original damage was to inflict, because reversing course is always like that and people will resist due to normalcy bias. Something about fooling being easier than explaining that fooling occurred.
The thing that the Right needs to really come to understand is the Lefts grasp of something called “gatekeeping”. Once that happens the Left’s power is cut by half and it’s all downhill from there. It is getting enough people to grasp how gatekeeping works on a society wide level that is the challenge. The answer is education, IMHO, specifically on how propaganda covers up gatekeeping, what gatekeeping is, how it functions and how to see it.
Hence my comment the other day about Judges 7. If you do that right you end up with a group of people who don’t just see propaganda but can teach others to do it because they understand the basic tools.
And that’s a group of people that once created will multiply naturally, exponentially at first in fact. After some time it will level off and you’ll get linear growth.
And this is not hard to do. Your average Boomer can’t pass a 1915 8th grade exam. Which is not to trash them, most younger people can’t either and are, in fact, worse.
But my point is twofold. 1. This is bigger and longer than most people want to believe and 2. That we’re not shooting for an excessively high bar. This isn’t a moonshot, it’s achievable if enough people simply realize that it is achievable and pick up the tool kit.
Nearly anyone can change a tire with the right tools. This is no different. And when you point out some of this, doing it right, you’ll wind up the older folks real good and point them in the right direction. Human nature will take over once the younger people’s bullshit detectors (which still exist, I see them all the time) detect that the old people might not be exactly right but are going in the right direction.
A trickle to a flood. That is how you build an army that’s nearly invulnerable to the current weaponry deployed against them. And that’s how you take state after state after state.
And this is why I will not STFU about this. I don’t think it’s important. I know it is. I’ve studied these people in person and via their writings since I was in high school two decades ago. I come from the front lines. The tidings I bring are not great but they are not of doom either. They are that it’s time to put in some fuckin’ work if you want to win. The rest is bullshit.
I’m glad I checked back here.
No sense in running from CA when it will just follow.
I stay in CA because the weather is good and the state has done me a solid financially.
No sense in running from CA when it will just follow.
True. The trick is paying enough attention to get out if things start heading sideways.
This is very similar to the new law in IL. Most places won’t ship us AR15 parts like pistol grips, free float rails or stocks because of the ban on ‘assault weapon attachments’. Hopefully it will get struck down soon.
Banning semi handguns (as if banning semi rifles being bad enough) is a great way for certain govt. officials, military/law enforcement officers, leftist politicians to get themselves shot. Lets hope that sad day never comes to pass.
The firearms industry needs to band together and cut off from all products – guns, magazines, parts, holsters, accessories and ammunition – any and all state and local agencies – law enforcement and military – in any state that passes any form of “assault weapons” ban, magazine capacity restriction, accessory ban, or any other unconstitutional limitation on the rights of it’s citizens to keep and bear arms. They always exempt themselves from their schemes; the firearms industry can stop them dead in their tracks.
They should just call this bill the “Say No To Tourism” bill. Colorado has been my favorite vacation spot, but looks like I and multitudes of others will look elsewhere for states that want our millions of tourism dollars. It’s just not worth risking our families’ lives in a state that restricts our ability to protect them. Count the cost, Colorado. Vote this down if only to save tourism in your state.
That would be a good start. Unfortunately, Ruger and Springfield cravenly kiss Liberal A$$es in their support for expanding the NFA, GCA and ATF (if you think that died with Bill Ruger guess again, the current CEO is worzs).
Ammo manufacturers would need to join the boycott, but since the government owns all of Winchester’s Lake City output, Winchester wouldn’t be able to join the boycott.
This bill is a great big DI (Digitus Impudicus, or middle finger) at the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court will strike it down (maybe even the Colorado supreme court will).