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TTAG reader TS writes:
“I looked at California’s DOJ website to see the handgun roster, and there is a link to see Recently Added Handgun Models, pdf, I waited a while for the gun list to load on the PDF page, then I realized that the blank page was all there would be. I then laughed at myself for expecting anything more.” Rib-tickling rights deprivation? I guess so . . .

Once you’ve stopped the “laughing to keep from crying” thing, the fact that Californians are denied the ability to keep and bear the latest handguns from manufacturers free to do business elsewhere in the country is a serious concern. And not just for Golden State gun owners. California has become a test bed for the forces of civilian disarmament. Whether of not this anti-gun animus spreads to other “slave states” and beyond, it’s not a pretty picture, is it?

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        • I looked at the whole list of approved weapons and saw something extremely interesting. As you can see from the small section I’ve copied below, the far right column indicates the expiration date of the certification. You’ll notice the date is 1/1/2017, less than a year from now. And yes, if you scroll all the way down to the end of the enormous list of 751 pistols, ALL the certifications expire on 1/1/2017. So, assuming no one opts to get recertified by the end of this year, the list of approved handguns in California will match the list of recently approved handguns in California. It too will be blank.

          Sorry about the columns being screwed up, but you get the idea….

          All records selected
          The matching records list is sorted by Make
          This list is valid for Sunday, January 10, 2016

          Make Model Gun Type Barrel Length Caliber Exp Date
          Accu-Tek AT-380 II / 17-4 Stainless Steel Pistol 2.8″ .380 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armatix iP1 / Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.58″ .22 LR 1/1/2017
          Armatix iP1 Limited Edition / Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.58″ .22 LR 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision ECS (Stainless) / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision Rock Island 1911 A-1 CS (Blue) / Steel Pistol 3.5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision AP9 MS / Steel Pistol 3.8″ 9mm 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision MAPP1 MS / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.8″ 9mm 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision Rock Island 1911 A-1 GI MS (Blue) / Steel Pistol 4″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision AP9 FS / Steel Pistol 4.5″ 9mm 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision MAPP1 FS / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.5″ 9mm 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision Citadel M1911-A1 FS / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision EFS (Blue) / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision EFS (Stainless) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision High Standard 1911 A-1 / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision M1911-A1 (Blue) / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision M1911-A1 Tactical / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision RIA M1911-A1 FS Match (Blue) / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision RIA M1911-A1 Target (Blue) / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision Rock Island 1911 A-1 G.I. (Blue) / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision Rock Island 1911 A-2 GI FS (Blue) / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision Taylor’s Tactical M1911-A1 FS (Blk)Arch Check Grip / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision Taylor’s Tactical M1911-A1-FS (Black) Std. Grip / Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision RIA 1911 (Nickel) / Steel Pistol 5.16″ .38 Super 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision RIA 1911 (Parkerized) / Steel Pistol 5.16″ .38 Super 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision M206 (Blue) / Steel Revolver 2 1/8″ .38 Spl 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision FSR 38 / Steel Revolver 2″ .38 Spl 1/1/2017
          Armscor Precision M206 Revolver / Steel Revolver 3″ .38 Spl 1/1/2017
          Auto-Ordnance AHF Commemorative Model / Blued Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Auto-Ordnance Auto Ordnance 1911 A-1 PKZA / Parkerized Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Auto-Ordnance Auto-Ordnance 1911 WGS Deluxe / Blued Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Auto-Ordnance Auto-Ordnance T1911 STD / Blued Steel Pistol 5″ .45 ACP 1/1/2017
          Beretta 3032 Alleycat / Blue Steel Pistol 2.4″ .32 ACP 1/1/2017
          Beretta 3032 Tomcat / Blue Steel Pistol 2.4″ .32 ACP 1/1/2017

      • You would think more people like you would see through the misnomer of the safe roster. The safe roster isn’t meant to keep unsafe guns out of the hands of Californians (minus the cops). The safe roster is merely a form of gun control masquerading as safety.

        • Actually, it started out well enough, with the aim to eliminate unreliable handguns that were not drop safe. Which for the most part was accomplished. But then they tried to make it so that guns would be foolproof (impossible as that may be) to prevent accidental shootings. And finally it became (allegedly) a tool for law enforcement to be able to “trace” “crime guns” but instead became a political ploy to deny new (and arguably safer) pistols from entering the state.

  1. This is the definition of unconstitutional. The 9th Circuit is populated by civilian disarmament Leftest and SCOTUS won’t touch a gun case. Therefore, that leaves Californians so out of luck. I dare say CA could pass gun laws that were a mirror image of Australia or England and the courts would leave them in place. Considering a semi auto ban was passed by the state legislature last session and vetoed by the out going Dem Gov… (Incidentally the guy that is almost certainly to replace the Dem Gov, another Dem, next year is leading the charge for civilization disarmament. The state is only going to get worse in the years to come.)

    • For now. But it won’t be when it comes up for renewal, unless they modify it to meet the newest requirements. And any incremental changes made during production means the pistol has to be completely re-tested in the current form.

      Hell, the CA DOJ wouldn’t even approve all Gen3 model Glocks after testing one of each model. They required a different submission in EACH AVAILABLE FRAME COLOR. Like the different color frame somehow could make it unsafe?

      • Clarification: as long as the company makes NO CHANGES to the pistol (or watch, I assume; as it is required to fire the pistol, I imagine they must consider it a component part) it can be renewed without re-testing. But if the company makes any changes to the pistol or its parts (some minor parts like grips can be changed, but nothing internal or integral) it has to be re-tested from scratch, and that would trigger the microstamping requirement.

  2. Question. Is this a story about market forces, draconian tyranny, or both?

    Are guns being removed by the state? Or are guns falling off the lists because the gun makers think it’s to much trouble to sell in California? I E do gun makers have to apply to be on the approved list?

    Both would be a tail of bad government. The second a tale of bad government driving off business.

    Could some of our embattled brothers and sisters in the golden state comment and speculate. I am very curios.

    • There are no guns on the list because no gun on the market meets California’s standards of “safety” since no guns currently use micro stamping. I believe there is a lawsuit claiming the “safety” requirements are simply a backdoor gun ban because there are no guns on the market that meet the California safe criteria. Where that lawsuit will go I have no idea.

      • This is false. All revolvers are exempt from microstamping. All pistols on the list stay on the list until the manufacturer pays the annual $200 fee to maintain the listing. It is only new pistols that must comply with the microstamping law. I suspect that Colt has one commander sized pistol on the list (and the Cobra!!?!!) is because of its recent bankruptcy issues, as all of its Series 80 pistols have been approved in the past.

        • While true and accurate, it only applies if there have been no changes made to the pistol. If anything significant (as defined by the law) changes, even a part being made by a different manufacturing process (MIM, anyone?), then the gun is removed from the list and must be re-tested (and meet the microstamping requirement, if the change was made after it was added).

          Manufacturers of all types constantly make small changes in products for many reasons, such as to improve manufacturing efficiency, change the way a part is made, use a different part supplier to reduce cost, or change polymer formulation for better strength. Unless the manufacturer is willing to absolutely “freeze” a particular model’s design in materials and construction, it will eventually have to be removed from the list and re-tested in its new/improved form.

    • Manufacturers do have to qualify to be on the list, but once on the list, the gun stays on the list until the manufacturer stops paying the renewal fee. The State does not take guns off the list. Typically, guns fall off only when the manufacturer stops producing them and the supply channels have run dry. Guns that have been qualified but dropped off may apparently be re-added to the list on application, without requalifying the gun.

      I have to wonder about some of the deletions, as it appears that all Colts but two are gone (maybe an effect of the bankruptcy) and it seems the entire Springfield XD line is gone, which is a shock since none of the successors are on the approved list.

      • each version of every gun made, i.e. the sig 238, if its made in pink, or purple, or rainbow, uses a different name with the same model, must be submitted to the CA DOJ and a fee paid for each one for testing.

    • Most of the replies are correct in that a pistol may be renewed without a new cert if no changes hav been made to it. What they don’t know is that now (not sure if always was) a pistol can only be renewed 5 times before it has to be completely recertified.
      So yes the DOJ is actively seeking to remove all guns from the roster.

      There is yet hope. As an active leo may purchase any model in production for personal use, and then at a later date sell that firearm private party to anyone. When the roster is finally empty that is how pistols will be legally imported to Ca.

    • As usual, this stupid advice.

      “Move” is the most idiotic knee jerk thing to say about this crap. California is not a company with customers. They’re not gonna whine when gun owners leave. People who “move” leave the door open to easy passage of this legislation, which infects the rest of the country.

      What’s the end game? Everyone gun owner just huddled in a few counties in Utah while the rest of the US enacts endless “common sense” gun laws?

      No. Don’t move. You’re a gun owner and a citizen. Be counted. Stay and fight.

    • The ol’ cut and run policy. Shows up every time…..I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you forgot the *sarc* stamp

    • Yes. Move. Every gun owner in America needs to relocate to CA. Watch the look of terror in difi and boxers eyes when they realize CA is no longer going to employ them.

  3. I once spent 45 minutes on the phone with various officers and representatives of the CA DOJ firearm division. My purpose was to ask if my eBay sale of the SB-15 AR pistol BRACE was a legal transaction, as the buyer was a CA resident. After much explaining and questioning, I was told in no uncertain terms “maybe it’s legal, maybe it’s not. We’ll let you know.”
    Absolutely useless.

  4. You have my sympathy. I live in Illinois(Cook co). I get it. Fight-I know I got mighty pizzed when various azzwholes suggested I move.

  5. One of the reasons that many guns have fallen off is due to CA DOJ ruling that small changes in manufacturing techniques constitute a new model. For example the S&W M&P line. Smith changed the striker blocks off all the models to allow for a manual safety to be added instead of manufacturing two different blocks for the safety and non-safety models. You’ll notice that new M&P’s have a plugged hole in the frame where a safety can be added. CA said this constituted a new model and since it didn’t have microstamping if could not be added to the roster. Smith then pulled nearly all of their semi autos off of the roster except the Shield and SD

  6. It’s sad really. If you want to buy an “off roster” gun you most certainly can. There is a large underground market for off-roster pistols. It’s legal for LEOs to sell their off roster pistols to any body they wish. What ends up happening is that they end up getting purchased at a premium price. You want a GLOCK 43? Get ready to had over nearly $1000 for it. A Walther PPQ? Near $900. An AR Pistol? You’ll have to bend over for that…

    • The sale by LEOs is ot an underground market, per se, as the practice is legal–until officers start making a business out of it. I believe two officers were arrested and charged with felonies based on their practice of obtaining specially marked LAPD Kimbers and reselling them. One gun, no problem, but tens of them (all of which they received at a discounted price) were a definite no go.

  7. I wanted to add one more thing I forgot about. The Roster renews 1/1 of each year, but new handguns may be added at any time (except pistols, that is, because no one makes one that microstamps). So the fact that none have been added recently does not mean that new revolvers will not be added in the months to come .

    • If pistols have a “problem” w/micro-stamping, WHAT makes you say wheel-guns are any easier to comply?

      • Because Wheel guns are exempt from microstamping requirements.

        Since the law makers claimed the stamping would help criminal investigations they couldn’t muster support for guns that didn’t leave any brass behind to be required to microstamp.

    • There are hundreds of revolvers not added I can’t buy a rhino here or a python or any taurus plus they also keep falling off the list and now there looking to outright ban ar’s and ak’s thru a ban of the bullet button

  8. I think what’s even more sad is that Commiefornia is the biggest liberal state there is, AND it gets the most votes for the electoral college which is a sad reality.

    • Get rid of the electoral college. It isn’t relevant anymore. That being said, they’d still count a lot because they’re populous, the same reason they had a ton of representation in the electoral college.

  9. Interesting that with the industry’s collective experience, computer-aided design and precise CNC machining, not a single new handgun is deemed safe enough in California. Progress!

  10. So far it sounds like its both.

    For those who choose to stay and fight…. you have my respect. You have a hard battle.

    For those who choose to move because you believe its right for your family….Ditto. You have to take care of your family. But please share your stories. Be stead fast. Form a second line of defense against progresive ideas.

    It is going ot take every person who is willing to help to help fix the issues that face us today.

  11. Hi folks, I live in France ( but I’m Scottish) and support the NRA in the USA with my subscription. Can anyone tell me briefly how states or cities – like California, New York etc can twist the rights of citizens and get away with it – banned guns, banned magzines, laws on where, what and how people can do things. Is there not a legal precedent to get these State laws overturned? I do read plenty in my NRA magazine etc and online but it doesn’t seem to getting better but worse.

    How do they get away with it and what is being done to get those people’s rights returned to them?


    • because somehow we’ve been convinced as a polite society to stop the practice of tarring, feathering, and running out of town on a rail. personally I think it’s time we start doing it again.

    • There is a lot more to it of course, but the short story is that our elected officials can pass ANY law as long as they all agree to it. An all Democrat congress could pass a law making it illegal for Republicans to speak in public. They would have to ignore a huge amount of vocal opposition but they could do it. Our law enforcement officials are sworn to uphold the law and since this law was created using the correct legal process they are expected to do so. There are only 3 ways to get this obviously unconstitutional law off the books.

      The first option is to repeal through another congressional action but since they voted it in you will probably have to wait many years in hopes of a new elected majority having enough votes to make it happen. Second option is to invest HUGE amounts of time and money into the court system working through appeals in hopes that the Supreme Court of the United States will hear the case. If they decide to hear it they can strike it down as unconstitutional instantly . . . once it gets to them . . . IF they decide they are interested in the case.

      The third option is open revolt. It is fear of open revolt that prevents the most blatantly unconstitutional laws that some want (outright ban and confiscation of guns, zero media presence allowed to the other party, random home searches without warrant, etc.) from being proposed for a vote in the first place. It is the 2nd Amendment that makes the open revolt possible.

      The example above is an extreme case. In practical application they use slow incremental changes like the one in this article to condition adults into compliance slowly and make sure there is a sub-par education system to make sure our youth never know. You know . . . FOR THE CHILDREN!!!

      • This is not true. Many people down the chain of command in enforcement could refuse to do so. To compel them to do so would require courts to decide (see recent gay marriage license incident with court clerk for example) they must. It would require a huge conspiracy of many people to effectively enforce such a ridiculous example.

    • “Can anyone tell me briefly how states or cities – like California, New York etc can twist the rights of citizens and get away with it – banned guns, banned magzines, laws on where, what and how people can do things. Is there not a legal precedent to get these State laws overturned?”

      Laws and constitutions are really just paper when a politician, voting majority, or judge wish to ignore them. In California, Maryland, etc., the majority of the voters seem to want the Second Amendment violated. They vote in anti-Second Amendment politicians who pass anti-freedom laws, the rights of the political minority be damned.

      Understand, what is supposed to happen when the gun grabbing laws are passed in the aforementioned states, is that the people of those states who are having their rights violated are supposed to file suit against the anti-Second Amendment laws and have the laws declared null and void by the courts. In practice, the judges are graduates of American universities and have been indoctrinated to be hostile to the Second Amendment, ignoring the language of the U.S. constitution and the intentions of the Second Amendment. So then, the courts find in favor of the anti-Secondment Amendment laws.

  12. HEY …CA.
    Get ready for a crime wave of EPIC porportions……..
    And who your gonna BLAME? CONSERVATIVES!! of course

  13. This is a good thing in the long run. The state courts have already made many rulings against de facto gun bans. I understand this sucks in the short term. However, this only helps the lawsuit already pending.

  14. Californians are in luck. The Armatix iP1 is still on the list.

    Nothing new is going onto the list. Everything that is on the list expires 1/21/ 2017.

    If nobody pays the extortion, everything will come off the list.

    Then what happens?

  15. Under the new laws about who is a “dealer” lots of californians will be on the radar. Because of the roster, many out here have become “speculators” in gun values and do purchase guns with the full intent to sell them at a profit. Its already illegal to do so here, but now it will be easier to accuse people of it.

    • “They don’t want to take our guns away”, vs “Can’t buy any newer guns or replace old ones that break”.

      Po-TA-toe, po-TAH-toe.

  16. POTG our fight here is lost. We must retreat, regroup, and rethink our strategy.

    I will be leaving this festoring hole of corruption at my earliest opportunity. I urge you to join me.


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