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UPDATE: According an Odessa, Texas Police Department public information officer, 5 people are confirmed dead of 21 who were shot during an incident that began with a Texas Department of Public Safety officer being shot during a traffic stop.

The suspect then reportedly went on a shooting rampage along Interstate 20 between Odessa and Midland. A Midland and an Odessa police officer are among the wounded.

It appears that there was not, in fact, a second shooter involved. An Odessa officer told a press conference that the suspect, who was shot and killed by police, was a 30-year-old white male. No further identification was provided.

– – – –

At least 20 people have been injured by a shooter who has opened fire in Odessa, Texas, city officials told local outlets Saturday, while a second shooter was believed to be on the loose in nearby Midland.

Odessa officials told KOSA that 20 injuries in connection with the shooting, but authorities have not confirmed any injuries. The public is being urged to avoid Interstate 20.

One suspect is said to be driving a gold vehicle from Odessa to Midland and is armed with a rifle, NewsWest9 said. A second suspect is believed to be driving a U.S. Postal Service van.

And it may be more wide spread that that.

From the AP:

Police say there are “multiple gunshot victims” in central Texas after one or more suspects opened fire.

The Midland, Texas, Police Department said Saturday that one of the suspects is believed to be driving a gold-colored vehicle and has a rifle. Authorities in Odessa, Texas, say the other shooter is believed to be driving a U.S. Postal Service vehicle.

Police in Odessa, say one or possibly two suspects hijacked the postal vehicle and was firing at random, hitting multiple people.

The University of Texas Permian Basin campus has gone into lock-down. There have been no reports of fatalities.

The Texas Department of Public Safety has urged residents to avoid major highways in the area, including Interstate 20.

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  1. Are they Black, White or some where in-between? Who I’m I on the lookout for?? Usually when there white that’s the first thing “they” mention….

    • By reading the comments, I’m guessing it’s congressional republicans or maybe even Trump driving around shooting people.

      • Nah…Gotta be the liberals cause that’s what they do. That way they can make money by reporting on it 24/7 & even better if it’s an “assalt” rifle being used…..
        Besides if it was Trump doing the shooting…it would only be at the criminal illegals & I & bunch of Americans would be behind him!

        • “Smells like ISIS/Al Qaeda. Day of Wrath type onslaught.”

          Oh, *please*. It’s Saturday, not a day when an elementary school is in session.

          And you don’t remember much of the book. The M.O. was to bring an interstate to a halt by blockage and take their time picking off people in stopped cars.

          Here is just a spree murderer who likes the mobility a vehicle provides…

      • If this is Texas, then why isn’t somebody shooting back. Or running after them, then shooting them. Just askin……

  2. Checked out the ABC News tweet, and of course the commenters are blaming the NRA and republicans. It’s just a mindless reflexive action at this point.

      • While predictable many of the folks here know more about firearms than the entirety of any one of the moron stream outlets, with the possible exception of Fox. Of course we do have a few garden variety moronic trolls and the folks that refuse to ignore them.


      • Sorry kiddo, in a free country one nutjob going off the rails doesn’t give you the right to punish tens of millions of people who were in no way involved. You should be thankful for that. Otherwise, you’d be on death row along with all your ANTIFA terrorist buddies.

        • Boner….one per week?

          PLEASE…………..there have never been 52 “mass’ shootings by any logical count in any year.

          and this….this was more of a cops VS crooks wild shootout…not a directed ‘mass’ shooting

          please turn off CNN

        • Hey Boner… it doesn’t matter if it’s one per day. The same principle applies. Quite frankly, if you don’t like freedom and individual responsibility, feel free to get the fuck out of my country. Might I suggest Communist China? There the government is more than happy to throw 20 million people into concentration camps because of a handful of nutjobs.

      • Vlad, we know you’re here to troll. That’s your right. WHEN YOU USE ALL CAPS TO TROLL, THAT’S GOING TO FAR.

      • The genius of the Carpathians has spoken.

        We should pray to Marx, Lenin, and Stalin for providing Vlad with his inspiration to guide us into the shining future.

    • Oink oink, oink oink oink blah blah oink blah oink oink blah blah racist oink blah oink blah!

      • Well put vlad, that is the most insightful and logical statement you’ve EVER posted here on TTAG.

      • That is a non sequitur, Malvo and Mohamed hid in concealment for a single shot kill, then vacated the location to do it over and over again, so as far from this as is possible to be.

        It is closer to a spray and pray, like any number of mass killers, or gangland initiation.

  3. Good thing Mr. Bonnen did not allow Constitutional Carry to come up for a vote here in Texas, we might have had shootings here if it passed. Lucky for us, we are safe. Sarc.

    • Well, this will persuade Gov Abbott to continue down the road of embracing his inner Democrat. He will cave and throw Texas gun owners under the bus. Count on it.

      • Abbott is the new breed of Republican whom calls for a police state and the removal of liberty. I think people used to call these types “blue dog Democrats.” The Republican party has massively changed for the worse.

        Texas will be blue sooner than later with the help of the Republicans. I think Dan Crenshaw is the Republican version of Alexandria Cortez; he might have been installed by leftists just like she was.

        • “Abbott is the new breed of Republican whom calls for a police state and the removal of liberty.”

          The utterly worthless RINO type !

      • Guy drives around town shooting. I don’t care if he is doing it from the trunk of his car or out in the open. It’s the same idea. Better to be vaguely right then previously wrong. You exemplify previously wrong.

      • In California a deputy claimed he was shot by a sniper with an assault weapon. Turns out he made the entire story up. He’s 21 years old.

        Unfortunately, the sheriffs office believed the obviously fabricated story. They gave a press conference about the situation. They wouldn’t tell us about the evidence they had that would lead them to believe this nonsense. Eventually they did admit the deputy cut his shirt and got on the radio pretending to be under fire while he was in the parking lot.

        The sheriff office locked down the area for hours and brought out everything they could muster to look for nothing. They even arrested a couple of people for not following orders.

    • Not really. Sounds like a largely unplanned spree. The DC sniper(s) were premeditated and very well planned.

      • Malvo and Mohamed had a general plan but the shootings were deliberately random. I don’t this guy decided on the spur of the moment to do this.

        • They wanted to play with the police and terrify the public. I think they even called the police and left clues when the police couldn’t figure it out.

        • I shared an office with Linda Franklin, you can look up up the name, and I never heard anything about the taunting the police. The local police were convinced it was a “white male between 25 and 40” until almost the end. If they called they would have known it wasn’t a white male.

  4. Nearly every mass shooting has initial reports of multiple attackers. Wouldn’t surprise me if there’s only one guy involved in this one as well.

    • This isn’t a shooting at one location so the time between shots can be checked. If some of the shootings are near simultaneous a good distance apart then they can definatively say multiple shooters.

    • PD has issued a confirmation of just one shooter, that it started when he fired at an officer during a traffic stop. Deceased suspect hijacked a postal jeep part way through.

      This does not look like a premeditated attack so far. I’m putting 20 on career criminal.

      • I suspect you are right on this one…likely a multiple offender who didn’t want his third strike, and the cop who pulled him over was gonna catch him with enough drugs to make a dealer charge stick. With what little brain capacity he had left after sampling the products for years, he figured he would create chaos and try to escape in the ensuing panic.

        • Creating chaos so that he could slip away in the ensuing panic is a pretty sophisticated strategy. More likely, he wasn’t thinking past the next few seconds. Shoot the cop who stopped him and start running.

  5. So in a country/world that is growing more dangerous by the day, I’m supposed to get rid of my guns? LOL.

    • Nooo, they simply want you to hand them over in a buyback.
      Just think, you’ll get 1/4 of what they’re worth. If that.
      I’m going to turn mine in right now. 🙄

    • It is not getting more dangerous by the day , it is as safe as it was in the early sixties. Why do you guys go around saying that? Its like you want it to be true, like you get some sort of thrill out of believing that. It plays right in to the hands of the antis . Your doing their work for them by spreading that disinformation and accepting demonstrably false narratives.

      • True enough. But there has been a recent uptick in criminal violence. Whether it is merely a statistical fluctuation or the beginning of a new trend is something we won’t know until we accumulate a few years data.

  6. So, I’m not one for conspiracy theories or anything like that, but ever notice, as major elections draw closer, mass shootings and gun control seems to get more frequent? Maybe it’s just me….

    • It’s probably just you. Conspiracy theories are pretty easy to stitch together, given one unfortunate fact as a starting point. It doesn’t take a master artist to draw a Bullseye around the dart, once that dart has already been thrown.

      • “Where there’s smoke 🚬…There’s fire 🔥….”
        (Say howdy to the “Deep State”… why DON’T you!) Expecting more calls for gun control, constitutional infringements, red flag/ERPOs , and so on….All Taylor made to get Americans on board after each Mass shooting event to surrender more and more liberties of THEIR fellow Americans….As we help the “Deep State “, into whining ourselves from authoritarianism into totalitarianism…

      • Dem primaries come to mind with minute by minute coverage…….who can gun control the hardest……

    • Brain-dead ‘One-trick-pony’ fuckwit Pee-gee-Two strikes again.

      How about getting laid, dude? Seriously, take it out on some rancid skank that will let you mount her… 😉

  7. Could be two spree killers. If there really are two attackers, I also wonder if this is a terrorist attack.

  8. If I was governor, I would tell the feds that this is a state matter. If we need you we will call you.

  9. Anything to boost their ratings and generate those clicks…Yeah it was two shooters, actually lets say it was five. That’s a much better idea. Gun grabbers eat this shit up, they’ll be paying our salary for the next two weeks.

  10. Live update steam

    21 shot
    5 confirmed dead
    1 shooter in custody (presumed single shooter)

  11. My friends, let me confirm something many of you suspect. In the 1980’s I was in college in NM. A small town I’d never heard of kept making headlines with high schoolers committing suicide. The body count was in the low teens before the psychiatry group responsible for that county convinced the news papers/TV to stop telling about every suicide. Finally it no longer made headlines and the suicides stopped. Feel free to draw your own conclusions. TRUE STORY!

    • I seem to remember that, it has been pretty well established now that, suicides at least among young people often occur in clusters (google it). This sort of behavior is clearly similar, but good luck getting the idiot stream media to go along with not reporting. Best you’re gonna do is to get some police departments and attorneys general to embargo the identity of the bad guy for a few days.

      Hell, I would be happy for them to cremate the body and flush him down the toilet, Anonymous processing in the sewage plant is all he deserves.

      • You don’t trust the government but you want government to be the only one with verifiable information. That makes zero sense. It sure will help a great deal in furthering government censorship though. Not to mention it violates the First Amendment. You will only know what the government tells you because the evidence was promptly cremated and flushed down the toilet.

  12. It’s like this every shooting each side hoping the other side did it. One side gun owners who don’t commit acts of violence being drug into a debate to take away their means of protection from a tyrannical government. The other side wants a peaceful gun free planet and I can’t blame them for wanting peace or no more shootings. As a gun owner who believes responsible gun owners should be able to purchase full auto machine guns, grenades, artillery, and suppressors I understand the dream of peace is a pipe dream as it’s not the tool it’s the murderer. If it was 20 blacks killed like every weekend no one would give a damn. So let’s say every gun owner lost their mind and turned their weapons in. What’s the government going to do to keep me safe 24/7? A better question is what’s the corrupt government doing now to keep me safe? I’m a police officer and been on the job for 24 years. Currently in Georgia the penalties for crime are as follows: murder three years, burglary probation, assault probation, and shoot a cop ten years. Most criminal histories I run the criminal has been arrested 20-80 times. The most was 350+ arrests. It was 5”s thick. It’s a joke as a cop to arrest anyone as it’s a waste of time. So how is a worthless scum bag still walking the street with 350+ or even 30 arrests? The government wants to save money by not doing the right thing yet they want me to be disarmed. They are not even trying. Fellow cop shot and only ten years. They closed insane asylums. So if you think the government gives a damn about your protection or safety you’re an idiot. Both parties are anti gun. Here’s why. America is in decline. Wages going down and taxes going up. Negative interest rates headed our way. 401Ks are going to be targeted. By 2040 100 million jobs will be lost to automation. That’s a lot of pissed off armed formerly middle class and poor people. Who backs gun control? Billionaires! Who do you think is going to be worried about an advancing mob of angry unemployed people? Billionaires. They control the media, they control the government, and so called assault rifles scare their security teams. Most murders are handguns. But assault rifles are the target? They are if you are worried your security team might be out gunned. The goal of billionaires is to transfer wealth from America to third world countries to create more consumers. Thus the green new deal. In the future everything on that list will become true. Not because it’s outlawed it’s because you can’t afford anything because you are too poor.

    • “Who backs gun control? Billionaires! Who do you think is going to be worried about an advancing mob of angry unemployed people? Billionaires. ”

      Yep, and that’s why we need to elect a billionaire like Trump in 2020, so he can pack the cabinet with more billionaires like ‘Mortgage ‘ Mnuchin and ‘Rothchild’ Ross.

  13. According to the reports, this started when the cops pulled this guy over. Then he goes crazy, so I’m wondering if this was a drug mule or something. The pattern definitely doesn’t fit the typical mass shooter.

    • Not saying he wasn’t but why would a drug mule go on a random shooting spree? He might shoot the LEO but how does driving around town shooting random people help him escape?

    • Hilarious, you’re just grasping at straws.

      Drug mules don’t carry guns, drug mules are rarely involved in shootings, they’re just totin’ somebody else’s dope.

      But sure, it probably was an ISIS drug mule, I wonder why he didn’t detonate his explosive vest?

      Y’all is hilarious!

  14. @Imayeti, what you wrote makes perfectly good sense. However in this day and age, the gun grabbers and Dems jump all over incidents like this. The MSM has a field day. Meanwhile, sadly in Chicago, the stats are still terrible on a weekly basis, and nary a network peeps about it. It’s sickening. You can see for yourself at a real time site that keeps Chicago’s shootings stats, it’s called heyjacka** dot com. It certainly feels a lot like the people in Chicago don’t matter to the MSM, and that makes me both angry and sad.

  15. Wait for the tox screen results. He will be shown to have been an abuser of the Libertarians drug culture. But as long as we get to shoot drug users dead, who violate our civil rights its ok.

    • I do believe you mean “LIBERALS/Demo-Crappic party….Becuase they want drug 💉 induced zombies to vote for THEM! Thats why THEY made it recreational in my state…But have been ramping up “Anti-2nd Amendment/Weapons control projects” to shutdown self-defense and firearms ownership by the general public…..

  16. My uneducated guess, drugs mule, about to go down big. Perp was going to die one way or another.

  17. The Texas Tribune is yet another media outlet pushing the FAKE NEWS that the El Paso shooter was a “white supremacist”. His manifesto outright saying killing non-white Americans was wrong. They don’t want you to know the manifesto says he was a COMMUNIST. He said he wants UBI, government health care and an end of the American lifestyle for sake the environment. He killed people so they wouldn’t drain the planet’s resources.

    • Bullshit. Crap talk like that helps the anti-gun, anti-Second Amendment cause. Please unplug your computer and find a new hobby.

      • No, it’s the truth. Find the manifesto and read it. There’s nothing to suggest he was a “white supremacist”, but EVERYTHING to say he was a communist.

      • Nanashi is right. The El Paso shooter was an eco-terrorist, not a white supremacist despite what the MSM says.

        • Nope. He was a white supremacist Republican, according to him.

          Eco fascism is about population control. Eugenics. It’s the method white supremacist use to depopulate the undesirable people from this planet. Global warming ties into that. They use this moral authority to do evil things like keeping non whites in poverty and starving them to death. They don’t want useless eaters.

        • Chief Censor said “Eco fascism is about population control”.

          Read the manifesto. That is exactly what the El Paso shooter was trying to do. He attacked Hispanics because they are the ethnic group that is increasing the population of the United States. He viewed the United States as an evil consumerist state that destroys the environment and he wanted to stop population growth in the United States.

        • He wanted to send Mexicans back to Mexico and create ethno states for each group. He was upset that white people are not breeding.

          Eco fascism is something national socialists use to justify their genocide. The Nazis were into that stuff. So was Britain and America at the time. People like Margaret Sanger didn’t want a bunch of useless/burdensome people around, her goal was to stop them from breeding.

          Eugenics [genocide] was a movement created by white supremacists. They wanted a pure and perfect race for their ethno state. Hitler learned a lot about it from Americans, he took inspiration from them.

        • From the El Paso shooter’s manifesto:

          “Of course these migrants and their children have contributed to the problem, but are not the sole cause of it. The American lifestyle affords our citizens an incredible quality of life. However, our lifestyle is destroying the environment of our country. The decimation of the environment is creating a massive burden for future generations. Corporations are heading the destruction of our environment by shamelessly overharvesting resources. This has been a problem for decades. For example, this phenomenon is brilliantly portrayed in the decades old classic “The Lorax”. Water sheds around the country, especially in agricultural areas, are being depleted. Fresh water is being polluted from farming and oil drilling operations. Consumer culture is creating thousands of tons of unnecessary plastic waste and electronic waste, and recycling to help slow this down is almost non-existent. Urban sprawl creates inefficient cities which unnecessarily destroys millions of acres of land. We even use god knows how many trees worth of paper towels just wipe water off our hands. Everything I have seen and heard in my short life has led me to believe that the average American isn’t willing to change their lifestyle, even if the changes only cause a slight inconvenience. The government is unwilling to tackle these issues beyond empty promises since they are owned by corporations. Corporations that also like immigration because more people means a bigger market for their products. I just want to say that I love the people of this country, but god damn most of y’all are just too stubborn to change your lifestyle. So the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources. If we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can become more sustainable.”


      • 100% right. Look at the citation from the manifesto above. Though I do love the fact that you think that the National Socialist German Workers Party was somehow “right wing”… Honey, I hate to break this to you, but being to the right of Joseph Stalin only makes you “right wing” if you consider Mao a centrist.

        • OK…
          “When I take charge of Germany, I shall end tribute abroad and Bolshevism at home.
          Bolshevism is our greatest menace. Kill Bolshevism in Germany and you restore 70 million people to power. France owes her strength not to her armies but to the forces of Bolshevism and dissension in our midst. The Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of St Germain are kept alive by Bolshevism in Germany. The Peace Treaty and Bolshevism are two heads of one monster. We must decapitate both.”

          Also, just because Hitler and the Nazi’s were right wing in Germany, doesn’t mean that right wing is the same as the American right. German politics in the 1920’s were very different than modern American politics. It was Hitler’s attempt to propagate his view of nationalism via volksgemeinschaft.

          Hitler was specifically trying to “take back” the term socialism from the left of center parties by usurping it to define his version of aryan nationalism:

          “Socialism is the science of dealing with the common wealth. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.

          Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic… We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfillment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one.”

        • Again… being the the right of outright Bolsheviks doesn’t make you “right wing”… In America, national socialists are on the left. Just like every other brand of socialism. Quite frankly, if you take the exact races they are ranting about out of their manifestos, you wouldn’t be able to tell Richard Spencer from Bernie Sanders. Being an identitarian socialist in favor of “white people” (whatever the hell that is) doesn’t magically make you anything other than just another brand of identitarian socialist.

        • Knowing things isn’t your strong suit.

          But by all means, shout as loudly as you can that your lie is truth, the heavens may listen and your lie become fact. I’d not hold my breath if I were you.

        • Commie, I have more degrees than you have teeth. Put the meth pipe down.

          Let me simple, it up for you. The Demokkkommie party has been the party of hate, racism, and collectivism since its founding.

        • That’s a large amount of stupid to speak to be contained by any one degree, a 3rd degree moron. Why advertise your stupidity more than you have to? I guess it’s probably logical, being too dumb to know you’re when to be quiet, the simpleton cannot know. It’s sad.

  18. These events are pushing the needle even farther towards a gun rights showdown. We’ll find out if our rights can stand the heat or not.

    • No. Unfortunately, it’s something that has metastasized in society. The disease of Leftist Multiculturalism. It may not be curable by anything other than lead poisoning.

    • No you didn’t. The babblings of the village idiot cannot be counted on as sound advice.

      Remember. I told you so. You and miner49er are making Trumps second term a cake walk.

      • Hey Jethro I am going to copy and save your comment until 2020 after which time I will re-post this for you to read and then I can have a really good laugh at your expense.

        The delusions of the Trump Crowd are truly infinite.

        • I know all about being deluded and laughing at other people when I make a fool out of myself.

        • Yes you are delusional. Calling others racist while you support an ongoing genocide against blacks in the US.

          2020 will be my turn to laugh. Honestly, though, I’m already laughing at the absurdity that is vlad tepes.

  19. Be nice if someone held the media accountable for their BS non descriptive “shooter” term that aims to vilify all armed citizens rather than using accurate descriptors of the criminal and their motive.

    “Shooter” sounds more mysterious and scary worthy of legislation rather than obvious truths like “black gang member shoots at police” or “white meth head shoots person”.

    Context is what is missing from every “mass shooting” or “shooting” headline.

    This blatant misinformation and terminology narrative by the media is boring. My advice is don’t use their BS narrative as that makes you a part of the misinformation campaign.

    • A funny thought exercise:

      If SJWs are successful in censoring all terminology that “protected classes” and minorities use to identify and describe themselves, suddenly all crimes and shootings appear very… white, because whites are the only group that can actually be called “white” and you can’t describe any other group.

      Best disappearing act of all time that absolves them of responsibility.

  20. I’m thinking this goes down the memory hole and will be out of news cycle in 24 hrs.

    Doesn’t fit the narrative and kill zone/bodies not in consolidated area for max pictures/victims. Not trying to be ghoulish but the MSM wants shock material as usual. Gotta have the two people hugging picture too as it is a standard I’ve come to look for, especially from the Daily Mail and CNN.

    One of the pic’s I’ve seen looks like a shotgun was used on truck, but who knows at this point.

    `just looking at things

  21. White Male, about 30 (naturally). What won’t be reported by the news media will be that they will discover that he’s an anti-Trump socialist democrat that supports either Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris or Bernie Sanders for President, attends Antifa rallies and believes that fascists like us shouldn’t own any firearms. If he had survived and been arrested he would have replied to the question about using guns to kill people that socialism demands sacrifices’ and the death of 20 or 30 people is meaningless if the end result is that the U.S. achieves true socialism.

      • All five of us will vote for whatever lying democrat claims to be a socialist then we will have true socialism in the us in my mommy’s basement.

      • And If you do, it won’t last long before y’all die from lead poisioning (either due to inincompetence in operating the water supply or by other means).

      • In discussions with the then new Afghanistan Communist government, the new government boasted they would achieve Communism within a few years. The delegation from the Soviet Union replied good luck because they had been striving for the same goal for 60 years.

        But Vlad, you know utopia will be achieved after the next massacre, and the next, and the next, and the next.

  22. It was a Chicano family that despite being shot at kept chasing the White Male terrorist and also stopped to help a man who was shot.

    • I like it when chicano families chase me when I am being friendly with their little girl and when they catch me the beatings are so intense it hurts so good.

    • He obviously did not do it with a shotgun and common sense would tell you that when he shot that many people he certainly was not using a bolt action rifle. The Chicano woman stated she saw him slamming a magazine in the rifle.

      • Pretending I know what I am talking about and making up lies is fun. Making up lies and pretending other people said them is even more fun.

      • “A Chicano woman saw him …” That is hardly definative. I have several bolt action rifles with detachable magazines. The number of shots fired at the several locations could have been accomplished with a bolt action rifle. Claiming to know something based an eyewitness who may or may not know something about firearms is a thin reed to go on. I am not saying it wasn’t a semiautomatic rifle buy until I will not speculate at this point.

      • He obviously did not do it with a shotgun and common sense would tell you that when he shot that many people he certainly was not using a bolt action rifle

        You mean like the 2010 Cumbria shootings, which killed 12 and wounded 11, using exactly a shotgun and a bolt-action rifle, with exactly the sort of mobile tactics? I suppose that never happened?

      • I know I am simple minded and I need lots of diversions to avoid reality. When my daddy tells the truth about me I need lots of paper bags and lots of glue to avoid facing the truth.

  23. Police say suspect was well-known to them.

    Drug dealer?
    Sovereign citizen?

    I guess we’ll find out.

  24. Our attention deficit disorder shows why we remain ignorant on the gun issue. We see everything in black and white rather than admitting that the propaganda we enjoy using to bolster our viewpoints may just indeed have serious flaws.

    • My attention deficit disorder shows why I remain ignorant on the gun issue. I see everything in black and white rather than admitting that the propaganda I enjoy using to bolster my viewpoints may just indeed have serious flaws.
      I fixed for me again.

  25. Mr. Strawberry makes some very good points. In civilized countries people must go through some very rigorous training before they get a right to a firearms purchase card which includes safe handling of firearms, how they function, when you can and cannot use them for self defense, and if you are a hunter the myriad of game laws and if you join a shooting club (sometimes mandatory) what are the proper safety procedures on the shooing range.

    • This may be my fault. I never even tried to teach the boy the difference between a right and a privilege. Hell, after two decades of failure, I gave up on trying to teach him the difference between his right and his left.

    • Vlad, in those “civilized countries, you also generally don’t get right to jury trial, you can be stop and frisked even if it effects minorities more, you have less warrant protection, less evidence exclusion protection, can be held longer, can be locked up for mental illness easier.
      In your posts you have added suicide together with homicide as deaths “caused” by guns which means a lot of those “civilized countries” have higher lethal violence rates than the USA.

      There is also zero evidence that requiring training for firearms purchase card reduces homicide at all. None.

      Finally in the last ten years in western Europe there have been three mass murders of over 50 people — while in the US there has been one. Two of those in murders in Western Europe were not even with a gun.

      • Training people to use a gun will decrease homicides? If your trainer is teaching you to miss you are going to the wrong place. Training will make you actually hit what you are intending to kill.

  26. Hmm… Based off the initial info. It appears this guy was going to commit a mass murder at Cinergy. He was pulled over before he could get there. He then decided to shoot everyone he drove passed. He ditched his car and stole a delivery/mail van. He made it to the Cinergy but was shot before he could get inside.

    Could be wrong. It’s early.

    Don’t leave home without your gun. Copycats can be loading up right this moment. It only took 13 hours after El Paso…

  27. I noticed Vlad had no comment on the early shooting story. Could it be because it was gang related and black lives don’t matter to him.

    • You are as bad as my daddy. How would you like it if I told everybody the truth about you? Fine, black lives do not matter to me your life does not matter to me I am so full of self-loathing and self-hatred my own life does not matter to me as long as I can pretend to be morally superior by being weak and helpless and powerless.

  28. As of 9 pm tonite Chicago had 6 killed and 10 wounded. But, this never gets reported. Wonder why?

  29. My first thought was Sovereign Citizen. Could be something as simple as the guy had an outstanding warrant. Every time I see the news of a shooting, I try to guess what the race. religion, or political ideology if the shooter is because you can be sure that the people who believe differently will use it as a soapbox for a few weeks until the news cycle moves on or the next one hits the news.

  30. Can we all please agree that this is not a mass shooting, but a shooting spree? I don’t think you can have a continuously mobile shooter covering a wide stretch of ground from location to location and consider it a “mass shooting”. Not that it’s any less shitty, just important that it’s distinctly different.

    • Yes, the victims are really upset by having a killing miscategorised.

      Mass shooting versus spree shooting, the difference is very important, right?

      You may not consider it a mass shooting but the people doing the bleeding and dying say it’s the best imitation they’ve ever seen.

    • Not a mass shooting, not a spree killer, not a wacko on a rampage …although they can fit just as well.

      I lean more toward … ‘a shootout with the cops’….started as a traffic stop.


    According to the Gallup poles
    96% of the American People want universal back ground checks

    75% of the American People want a 3 day wait on the purchase of firearms

    70% of the American People want all guns registered with the Police.


    Thirty studies show that more guns led to an increase in violence and homicides


    After the 1994 Assault Rifle ban gun massacres fell by 37%
    and Mass shootings fell by 43% but when the Gangster Criminal Republicans let the ban expire in 2004 mass shootings more than doubled.

    When Australia banned and confiscated guns thereby reducing their numbers mass shootings dropped by 43 per cent in the 7 years that followed the confiscations and bans.


    It is the Gangster Criminal Republicans that have absolutely refused to fund a National Health Care Plan and they have even REDUCED BENEFITS UNDER OBAMA CARE THEREBY DENYING HEALTH CARE TO MORE THAN 20 MILLION AMERICANS.

    All the while this year the shootings have gotten worse and surpassed the 2018 toll of mass death and carnage, which this year is 252 and still counting.

  32. Mass shootings are becoming more common and until they start to decrease gun control will be much easier to pass.

    Quite frankly the commentators need to come up with new ideas other than everyone should be carrying a gun on them at all times to be able to respond and or deter mass shooters.

    A lot of people, if not an outright majority, would prefer not to carry a gun on them at all times while they are in public. Just like how everyone here would prefer not to have to wear bullet resistant armor on them while in public at all times.

    The truth of the matter is that as these mass shootings become more frequent the more disdain the general public has for gun owners and the 2nd amendment especially for those that argue against any all forms of gun control.

    Republicans are looking at a blood bath in 2020 in congress and their responses to these mass shootings just make them look like idiots. Once the democrats get control of both the senate and presidency in 2020 you can pretty much bet there will be assault weapon bans with mandatory buy backs and magazine cap restrictions and mandatory buy backs.

    For those that say well we will violently resist such buy backs…….Do you really think the public is going to rally to your side?

    Quite frankly the only real way to save semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines of any capacity is to pass gun control like the below:

    Raise the minimum age to purchase a firearm, Alcohol, tobacco, join the military to 25. You need massively increase the funding of ATF, the ATF needs to inspect gun dealers once a month instead of once a decade to ensure they are being compliant with gun sales.

    You need to have a gun license system that progressively over time increases access to firearms and magazines.

    So for example the first year of the license you will only be allowed to purchase single shot firearms. After one year you then become eligible for bolt action and lever action firearms that hold non detachable magazine capacities of 10 rounds. After 4 years, 5 total, you then become eligible for pump-action, semi-automatic, revolvers(single and double action) firearms with non-detachable 10 round magazines. After another 5 years, 10 total, you then become eligible for detachable magazines firearms with any capacity you want.

    At each milestone you are issued a new license that says what guns are you eligible for. The licenses will also contain your picture, name, an address. There will also be a bar code or QR code on the license.

    Private sales can only be done between individuals with the appropriate license and to validate the license is genuine or still valid you would use a smart phone app and scan the barcode/QR code.

    If you pass the above you still have access to semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazine systems and any capacity you want while at the same time putting a massive road block in front of criminals, especially straw buyers, from getting their hands on firearms.

    If you don’t do the above you are going to end up with the passage of semi-automatic bans and mandatory buy backs. These mass shootings, and with increasing frequency, is making these proposals much more realistic of passing.

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