The ATF’s Proposed Changes to Form 4473…From an FFL’s Perspective

new 4473 form

Courtesy ATF

The bureaucracy that all gun owners and gun retailers know all too well is undergoing some changes. Orchid Advisors has nicely summarized changes to form 4473 the ATF has proposed in the Federal Register.

Here’s a little more perspective from someone who deals with this on a daily basis.

First, you can check out the proposed new form on ATF’s website.

As the Orchid Advisors write-up points out . . .

Changes to the Form 4473 include the following:

  • In general, the Draft Form 4473 no longer has references to “See Instruction for…” to highlight on the Form that there is an instruction for the specific box.
  • Section A is now the Section identifying the firearm (old Section C). It only contains information on the firearm and the firearm transaction, and does not include the “For Use By Licensee” box, nor the box into which FFLs enter their Name, Address, and FFL number.
      • Additionally, where the old Form had 4 line items to enter firearms, the new Form only has 3. There has been a Firearms Transaction Record Continuation Sheet issued as well – which may be viewed here – where quantities of firearms in excess of 3 will be identified.
  • Section B is now the Section in which the Transferee enters their personal information (i.e., formerly Section A).
      • The “County” box has been revised to include “Parish/Borough”.
      • The “Sex” box has been revised to include a third option of “Non-Binary”.
      • The “UPIN” box has been revised to include “Appeals Management Database Identification (AMD ID)”.
      • The Citizenship information (Country of Citizenship and US-issued alien or admission number) has been moved to precede the prohibitor questions.
      • The question asking the Transferee whether they are under indictment or information in any court for a felony has been revised to include: “or are you a current member of the military who has been charged with violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and whose charges have been referred to a General Court-Martial?”.
      • The question asking the Transferee whether they have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence has been revised to include: “or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions?”.
      • The prohibition questions regarding Citizenship (e.g., renounced US citizenship, illegal alien, etc.) have been moved away from the general Citizenship information, see above.
      • The Transferee’s certification date has been split into three boxes for Month / Day / Year
  • Section C is now the Section wherein the Transferor records Transferee identification information and NICS / Background check information.
      • The “Supplemental Government Issued Documentation” box has been revised to include a statement highlighting the space should also be completed if the photographic identification does not include their full legal name.
      • A new box has been created in which the Transferor will record “Official Military Orders Establishing Permanent Change of Station (PCS); PCS Base/City and State; PCS Effective Date; PCS Order Number (if any)”.
  • Section D is now the Section wherein the Transferee would sign to recertify that their answers are still true and correct when the transfer of the firearm(s) occur on a different day than the date on which they originally completed and signed the form.
  • Section E is new, and is now the Section in which the FFL has the “For Use by Licensee” box, the Name/Address/FFL Number box, and the certification / signature.
      • The box for “Transferor/Seller’s Title” has been removed.

Section A

Running this down from the top, there will be a TON of eye rolls, but a few of these changes are actually beneficial. Here’s why.

For those of you who aren’t aware, when people cancel/walk away/get denied by NICS or the state POC, the retailer still have to retain the form and fill out the firearms the person attempted to buy.

That means if someone was looking at a Colt Mustang, fills out the 4473 form halfway and reaches a question to which they may have some trouble answering “no” to, and then they put the pen down and leave, the retailer is still on the hook for filling out as much of the form as possible.

Very frequently in busy establishments, this can go sideways because a lot of the less regulatory-minded employees will just shred the form or not fill it out and tuck it into the “no sale” folder we are required to keep on hand. They forget to record the details of the underlying item that was to be transferred.

By making a change that puts the firearm information up front — to be completed before anything else — that eliminates the issue of forgetting to fill out what firearm was transacted.

That has happened to other licensees and even myself in the past. The phone starts ringing, someone sweeps someone out on the range…life happens and we just plain get distracted and forget.

Putting the firearm information as item number one is a good move. It will make bound book entries a lot easier for licensees since the information is up front and not on page three.

Also worthy of note, if you compare the weight/heft of the paper stock that ATF has been using in 2019 vs 2012, you will be able to tell a huge difference. The old 2012-era forms were made of heavier paper stock. Normally this wouldn’t be of note, but the newer lighter stock forms have some problems.

When we make the fold along the perforation to fill out your photo ID info and serial number, very often that’s the beginning of the end – the first page separates and then we have granular data and have to rifle through forms and try to figure out what front page goes to what back section.

The ATF’s requirement in the event pages separate is to staple the form back together. (Staple, not paper clip…failure to staple is a violation that is a disciplinary item at an ATF inspection.)

Moving the firearm data and the buyer’s info onto one page is a good move. I like it.

Section B

This is a little different story.

There are a ton of gun buying folks in places with parishes/townships/boroughs that get tripped up with ATF’s designation of “County.” Fixing that after 50+ years counts as progress.

With just under half of the states in this country now recognizing non-binary genders in some fashion — and states issuing government ID that recognizes such — the presentation of photo ID to a firearm retailer that doesn’t conform with the information on the 4473 form presents a paperwork violation when the ATF catches it.

If you give me a choice between making a sale and being yelled at by ATF or not making a sale and avoiding the ATF hassle, I will err to the side of not making the sale and avoiding the hassle. I don’t need to give the ATF a reason to write me up more so than the mistakes I already make.

Now, those who have a non-binary gender designation on their government ID can purchase firearms and the licensees can sell on to them without fear of a report of violation.

The UPIN/Appeals Management Database information (section 17) has been updated. This is fantastic news for those who do not specifically want to go through a UPIN process, but have a common last name that results in delays that go through an appeal.

Moving the country of citizenship up is helpful because on the old form it was buried in the middle and frequently overlooked. At my last IOI (industry operations investigator) meeting, they ran through all my 4473’s and there were about nine times where I didn’t see that the buyer had forgot to answer that. Shame on me, but moving it up should make things a lot clearer for customers and retailers alike.

The issue of military members having been charged with UCMJ/domestic violence issue attempting to buy firearms at retail is NOT something I have run into. But I suppose that if you are an FFL near a military base, this could solve some problems. The change to 21 b. gives some clarity to the issue as well as gives the ATF and the JAG folks a mechanism to prosecute someone who who’s prohibited.

Movement of the renouncing of citizenship/illegal alien question isn’t a big deal, nor is the trifurcation of the date into Month / Day / Year. But this will inevitably infuriate anyone in the military or public safety since nearly all reports are written in Day / Month / Year format and result in confusion/IOI’s writing up retailers for violations.

The only real change I would suggest to the ATF is an improvement to question 21.1.2.

I may be dating myself but back in the old days when I first started working 4473 forms, that question was supposed to be left blank. Since none of my customers ever read the form, it was always answered with a “NO”. The ATF has the authority to discipline us for that since technically we are willfully ignoring errors on the 4473 and not caring about the customer responses.

Since then, ATF has revised the form and questions relating exceptions on nonimmigrant alien sales have gone from “if you are a US citizen, leave this box blank” to “if this does not apply, check N/A” and now we are back to “If you are a US citizen, leave this box blank” again.

We’ve now gone 100% full circle.

My suggestion to ATF, that I’ve already sent in via email is that the tail end to question 21.1.2 that states “(US Citizens/national leave 21.1.2. blank)” should be IN BOLD, all caps or ideally – both! This is a question that is going to trip up every gun buyer in every gun store across the country for 6-7 months after implementation.

That’s my only real, useful input to the process. If all the TTAG readers could echo my sentiments, I’m certain that this will reduce 4473 confusion down the line. You can send your comments to:

Helen Koppe
ATF Firearms & Explosives Industry Division
99 New York Avenue NE, 6 N–652
Washington, DC 20226

Or via email at [email protected], or by telephone at 202–648–7173

Section C

For those who have to use two forms of ID to purchase a firearm or bypass a waiting period, the supplemental box changes don’t havemuch meaning. However, the second change is far more useful to licensees.

If a licensee does any amount of business with military members, there are constant problems/misunderstandings with states of residency and 4473 compliance. I have done my fair share of transactions and every dealer seems to be stumped when someone comes in with an armed forces ID card with their name, rank and serial number with a photo, but no current address.

Retailers can make the sale as long as there is an additional form of government documentation that provides the missing info. No, your lease/Comcast bill/Verizon statement/Bank of America mortgage receipt doesn’t work. They’re not government issued.

Very frequently, permanent change of station orders (PCS) are issued and those orders can be used to determine residency/address.

There’s only one big problem with that. Most dealers have NO IDEA what they’re looking at when presented with PCS paperwork or they don’t know how to do an armed forces service member sale so they deny the transaction as a matter of store policy.

If someone gets orders to move to a new station and live on-base, having a copy of that document with them is critical to a retailer that knows enough and how to make the sale.

Over the years, I’ve had many conversations where someone has had to go back home to get a copy of their orders, and I’ve had folks keep a copy in their wallet and whip it out when they hand back the 4473. That makes my life a lot easier and they don’t have to make a second trip.

By giving the licensee a chance to document PCS, that gives us a better opportunity to address the needs of customers in the armed forces and avoid the wrath of an IOI stickler at the next inspection. Another good change.

Section D

This is the new recertification section. Nothing new to discuss there.

Section E

This, I really like. We frequently make notes in the “for use by licensee” field of the form since our customer’s handwriting is not always good or they make some changes/additions to their order and the old box was a single line stretched to half a page.

Now, with the larger field, we are able to better document transactions to prevent hiccups down the line. The elimination of the job title for the seller is a plus. I’ve never quite understood the point of that, but I suppose it may have had a purpose at one time or another.

Those are my thoughts as a highly regulated industry paper pusher. Hopefully the changes don’t trip up too many of y’all when you go in and pick up a new gun when the updated forms are in use.

Please — on behalf of every licensee who gets yelled at by the ATF for doing forms wrong — read the form carefully before you put pen to paper. Stop and ask questions if you’re not sure of something. You’ll be saving your local retailer an earful the next time they get a visit from the ATF.

comments

  1. avatar WI Patriot says:

    Gee, just when everyone thought they had the 4473 memorized, now they have to read it and answer the questions thoughtfully…no more running through and checking boxes anymore…

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Haven’t filled out a 4473 or purchased through an FFL since the early ’90s. All my guns are inherited, gifted to me, or built from 80% kits – all before their respective deadlines were closed by the Dems.

      I now have enuff guns, and will never, ever buy anything within the DPRK.

  2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    Hmm… So people who can’t figure out if they’re male or female are free to purchase a firearm without picking one or the other. What about people who can’t figure out if they’re black or white?

    1. avatar Dude says:

      This game of fantasy appeasement that the government wants to play has just nullified sex designation. Since non-binary can mean anything the fantasy enthusiast wants it to mean, then why even ask? It will get even worse as super left wing areas double down on the nonsense and allow non-binary on birth certificates.

      1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        I think,er Leftards don’t think they Feel,I feel as if I identify as a tree, what Bravo Sierra.

        1. avatar Joe nobody says:

          I identify as a platypus, so until the form 4473 has gender identity boxes for “beaver” and “duck” it is still homophobic, sexist, racist, misogynistic, patriarchal, islamiphobic, xenophobic, dendrophobic, and marsupialphobic.

      2. avatar Not Clarence Boddicker says:

        Just curious, what are hermaphrodites expected to have on their birth certificates for gender?

        I tried playing devil’s advocate and this is about the only thing I could think of that would legitimize the non-binary option.

        Granted, they’re rare but they do exist and they deserve the right to self-defense as much as the rest of us.

        1. avatar Joe nobody says:

          If you have two x chromosomes you are female, if you have an x chromosome and a y chromosome you are male; if you have extra chromosomes you are liberal.

        2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          ‘… if you have extra chromosomes you are liberal.’

          I think that might be offensive to people with Down Syndrome.

        3. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          I had a college classmate who was XXY. He had to go in for testosterone shots every month. Big gun nut too. Great guy. Totally male. No ambiguity at all.

        4. avatar ll says:

          Not everyone knows it, but you can be XXY, or XY but female, since the Y chromosome doesn’t turn on. Those are far more rare cases than the current transgender wave, but they are real. Biology is not so simple as XY.

          To go further, If you believe someone can be XY but appear in every way female, naturally, because the Y is inactive (and you should, it is real) what is there to make you certain that other folks couldn’t have similar in between conditiions that we don’t yet know the reasons for. Maybe genetic, maybe hormonal in utero.

          There is a lot of assumed made up feelings when most of us think about transgender issues, but just maybe it is not correct to assume everyone is crazy.

        5. avatar Mercury says:

          True (biological) hermaphroditism doesn’t exist in humans. What you’re thinking of is the condition physicians have come to refer to as “intersex”, when secondary sexual characteristics are indistinct or mixed but so similar as to not be recognizable as dominant. A chromosomal analysis will tell you which sex these individuals would otherwise be without the cause of their intersex condition, but that may or may not line up with their dominant secondary sexual characteristics and as a result what is on their birth certificate. However, I maintain that as a legal classification “male” and “female” are sufficient even in those cases. One will either have been raised or “identify” as the same sex as on their birth certificate, in which case there is no problem, or one can perform the legal procedure for changing one’s legal sex just as those who undergo so-called “sex reassignment surgery” do.

          Also, to the replies saying that an XXY genotype (more commonly known as Klinefelter Syndrome) are a type of exception to this, that is simply untrue. Klinefelter Syndrome is the most common cause of intersex phenotypes, but the vast majority are phenotypically female with an overabundance of testosterone (which leads to their statistically unusual prevalence in weight lifting and other explosive strength sports.) “X with an inactive Y” is not a real condition though. XO (i.e. one X) is a genotype that produces unhealthy (but viable) females, but you can’t “inactivate” an entire chromosome. XY genotyped individuals who are phenotypically female are subject to genetic or environmental abnormalities which result in deactivation of “male” sex hormone producing portions of the endocrine system, but there’s no such thing as an “inactive” Y chromosome. That was a medical myth from the 90s that has since been debunked (they were observing epigenetic factors before epigenetics had been discovered.)

      3. avatar Napresto says:

        Strongly considering choosing “non-binary” from now on. After all, by the insane rules that now govern us, this is an assertion not to be questioned. I get to be whatever I say I am, and what I say is, I’m a toaster that chooses not to make the government’s job any easier…

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          First you will need to go to your local DMV and have the change made on your govt issued photo ID from male/female to non-binary…

        2. avatar STSG2466 says:

          Two slice or four slice?

        3. avatar napresto says:

          MADDMAXX: I identify as non-binary for gun purchases only. Tell me I can’t do that, bigot. 🙂

      4. avatar Truckman says:

        yall reckon I could get away with what I put on a Job app. one time where it said sex I put as much as I can, being they knew it was a good laugh

    2. avatar Dude says:

      “What about people who can’t figure out if they’re black or white?”

      The funny thing is, that can be open to interpretation. Sex can’t. Obama was just as genetically white as he was black. He just identified as a black man.

      1. avatar Roger J says:

        How about a box for ‘bi-racial’?

        1. avatar Art out West says:

          Multi-racial would be preferable to bi-racial, since it still covers it, but also covers people of more than two races.

          Race probably shouldn’t be on the form anyway.

      2. avatar George from Alaska says:

        He sure played that card when Trayvon Purple Drank got shot.

    3. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      Re:See Shaun King, Liawatha and that head of BLM out in cali that’s actually white.

      That out of the way it’s a cave to the left but I can understand why. It’s not that it keeps the people with a mental disorder out of trouble it’s that it keeps the FFL out of trouble.

      At the same time I would be of the opinion that most people who are transgendered shouldn’t be buying firearms under the auspices of being mentally defective. There’s a real separation from reality there.

    4. avatar jeff ward says:

      If someone cannot figure out if they are male or female they should be denied because they are seriously mixed up. This is someone who is not based in reality.

      1. avatar possum, and the "Coons of Doom" says:

        👍

      2. avatar Hermes throw dice says:

        What about hermaphrodites? They’re quite literally both at the same time.

      3. avatar George from Alaska says:

        Check out how the newest generations describe themselves on Twitter. Weirdos are all over the place… a collection of gun hating, vegan/vegetarian, non binary, atheist sheep/lemming AOC and Bernie lovers.
        Know your enemy… we have to know who is not going camping with us and the hogs will need food too.

    5. avatar John Fritz, HMFIC says:

      I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter

      1. avatar STSG2466 says:

        AH-1 Cobra or AH-64 Apache?

    6. avatar Phil says:

      One of my friends just checks every race box.

    7. avatar Docduracoat says:

      I could actually understand how you might be confused on how to answer black or white.
      Obama was half black and half white.
      What if one grandparent was white, everyone else your family was black, and you look white?
      So racial grouping could conceivably be a little confusing
      Sex , however is a lot easier.
      Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina.
      ( before someone chimes in about intersex patients, as a doctor with 30 years experience in labor and delivery I have never seen such a patient. They exist but are extremely rare )

      1. avatar Dude says:

        About the rare intersex folks, I would add that, to the best of my knowledge, they still only produce sperm or have eggs. Thus their sex is still already determined, no matter what they look like. As we’re all taught as children, looks can be deceiving.

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          There are people with genetic defects that instead of having normal XX or XY chromosomes have weird sets like XXY or XYY, etc. Not sure where they land reproductive wise though.

        2. avatar Dude says:

          The key is sperm or eggs. You can’t have both. No surgeries or drugs or fantasies can change that. If the gender fantasy crowd wants to use the chromosome argument, well, okay then let’s have an extra designation for the super rare, non-typical chromosome arrangement. At least then, we’re still dealing with a biological fact, not fantasy. That would shut down the fantasy argument pretty fast.

        3. avatar Dude says:

          At the end of the day, if you have a Y in there somewhere, then you should be designated a male. Once you start down the road of appeasement, there will never be an end to it. It’s the same reason you don’t give a crying child whatever they want.

      2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        Thanks for the tip.

        1. avatar S2424G says:

          That’s what she said.

    8. avatar Biatec says:

      The government does not need to know your sex, skin color, or any of that bs. I mean why not add hair color and sexual orientation? the whole thing is dumb.

      Soon they can survey our dating preferences and tell you if you are an amber or a kristy based on the 4473.

      Maybe just maybe they can figure what brand of lipstick gun owners need. That’s what a stacey would say though.

    9. avatar An AK in AK says:

      I am a transgender/I-choose-not-to-answer, african american, also of hispanic heritage.

      At least on job applications anyways. I figure it may increase my chances of getting hired. And to this date, none of my previous employers have ever called me on it.

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        Try claiming you’re Cherokee and apply at Harvard. I hear they’re paying 6 figures.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          I was told my whole life that I was a small percentage Cherokee from four or five generations back. Then both my parents did that 23andME thing last year and found out we have absolutely no American Indian in us at all, and it was all family myth.

          No soup for me.

    10. avatar neiowa says:

      So people who can’t figure out if they’re male or female So insane?

    11. avatar strych9 says:

      I can’t figure out if I’m an attack helicopter or a logi truck. WTAF am I supposed to do?

    12. avatar Stuart K says:

      Yeah this is very concerning. Cant figure out what your private parts do but you want a firearm… dont get me wrong, liberty first but I dont think we should be endorsing illness like this.

  3. avatar Emory says:

    I’m a half black half white who had male genitals at one time but lost them and now I identify as a female. How do I answer the questions?

    1. avatar Dude says:

      Your first priority should be out looking for your genitals.

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        Submitted without comment;

        1. avatar Dude says:

          I talked him down to $17 LOL

        2. avatar M1Lou says:

          Oh wow, a blast from the past. This was one of the songs that you tried to get the DJ to play at high school dances back in the early 90’s. We achieved that goal a few times.

  4. avatar Dude says:

    Regarding the confusing question, the FFL should always point that out to the customer as the form is handed over.

    1. avatar No one of consequence says:

      About half of the FFLs I’ve used over the years, pointed out common places people make errors when they handed me the 4473.

    2. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      A store clerk in Plainfield yelled at me (10 years ago) when I was buying my first gun, a .22. I was confused about a question, it seemed like a double negative question. I asked my brother who was 3 feet away. The clerk said “You can’t ask him for help with the form!” Told him: “Walk away from her!” After that, I copied the form from the internet and studied it before I went to any store. Next time, at a different store, I asked the (friendly) clerk to make sure I didn’t spell anything wrong: I almost mixed up COUNTY and COUNTRY. He said people make that mistake often. Yea, we’re all a little nervous when filling government forms. I even double/triple check my own name and address.

  5. avatar No one of consequence says:

    I am starting to understand why my preferred FFL uses an electronic 4473 entry system. I’m not 100% thrilled with it, myself, but it probably saves time and hassle in terms of customer data entry.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      The “ease” is in maintaining and indexing of the database. And in ensuring it NEVER disappears.

  6. avatar Johnny Go Lightly says:

    All BS. Happy that I am old enough to remember buying guns and ammo over the counter at hardware stores, Sears Roebuck, etc. But all you youngin’s think this is normal and not only govt regs but morally required of gun owners.

    1. avatar Sumyunguy says:

      As far as I’m concerned, they shouldn’t need to know any of that. Now days, a background check is a good precautionary idea, but only the FFL should know that has taken place, and it should be up to them to see that it is clean and decide to make the sale. We don’t need BATFE. Its just another alphabet soup power grab govt organization. More people who derive a salary from our tax dollars.

  7. avatar Steve Eisenberg says:

    If you don’t know what your gender is, you should probably not be buying a firearm, at least not until you’ve undergone some therapy.

  8. avatar Totmacher says:

    I’ll wait to see the revised E-Form. Switching to the E-Forms eliminated most of my common errors.

  9. avatar Phil says:

    A better solution would be to get rid of NICS and start keeping prohibited persons in jail. If you can’t be trusted with a gun you can’t be trusted to roam free in society.

    1. avatar possum, and the "Coons of Doom" says:

      That’s all fine and dandy if you can pack people like sardines or don’t mind taxes going up for more prisons

      1. avatar Phil says:

        We already have the largest prison population in the world. We are doing something wrong to say the least. Also a fan of 3 strikes and we execute you. Some people are just evil.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          “We are doing something wrong to say the least”

          Speak for yourself. I’m not in prison. 😉

        2. avatar possum, and the "Coons of Doom" says:

          We, ? Your an executioner?. What is your preferred method of execution.

        3. avatar Phil says:

          @ Dude: You completely missed the point. You should probably stay away from anything sharper than a pillow.

          @ Possum: I have zero issues with a firing squad. I also voluntarily signed up for sanctioned killing of enemies of the US IAW the UCMJ and LOAC. I have seen pure evil and there is no reason to keep it alive.

        4. avatar Dude says:

          @ Phil: Perhaps you failed to notice the wink or maybe you just have no sense of humor. You completely missed the point. You should probably stay away from anything sharper than a pillow.

        5. avatar Gordon in MO says:

          The UK had a good idea in the past, take criminals/undesirables to an island and dump them.

          I suggest we do the same thing. How about buying the Falkland Islands and dump our trash there?

  10. avatar Some guy says:

    So, if my driver’s license has my middle initial not full name, I have to have a secondary proving ID??

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      I know two people with no middle name who do NMI on the form and get grief about it

  11. avatar possum says:

    Wow the BATFE sure makes you do a lot of stuff to buy a gunm. Doing stuff is hard.

  12. avatar Mark says:

    Time to work on reducing the scope of ATF powers.

    1. avatar possum, and the "Coons of Doom" says:

      I’m still trying to figure out how firearms got thrown in with the addictions of humans.

      1. avatar No one of consequence says:

        Firearm collecting (acquiring?) can be addictive…

  13. avatar former water walker says:

    Yuck! Now I can’t robotically check. Nice going NCIS😩

  14. avatar JOHN THAYER says:

    I had no idea that exercising a God-given right was so complicated. Maybe we should do this for the 1st Amendment as well.

  15. avatar PTM says:

    Just when I had the last “new” version down pat. Great.

    I don’t even understand what “non-binary” means…that you play for both teams?

    1. avatar Hush says:

      Binary as in 2 things. 1 or 2 take your pick!
      If you ain’t one and 2 stinks, then you must be a 5, 3, 4?
      If you don’t know, then how do you expect other to know?
      I ain’t one but I have 2! How about you, how many you got?

  16. avatar GS650G says:

    What s with non Hispanic versus Hispanic on top of the main classes?
    What if I identify as Ricky Ricardo on weekends do I flip my vote?

    1. avatar Zack says:

      It’s because hispanics are combined with whites in statistics when it would make whites look worse/hispanics look better and vice versa.

  17. avatar jwm says:

    I just tried to buy a Benelli shotgun over the week end. I never got to the 4473. Turns out I don’t have ‘real id’ so I would have to go home and get my birth certificate or my pass port to make the transaction.

    Too bad. That Benelli was sweet. But I’ve jumped through all the hoops I’m going to. Next trip to Utah and I’ll hit the yard sales.

  18. avatar PissedOffRickey says:

    What they really needed to fix was a process to eliminate the option of unscrupulous dealers from adding firearms to your form after you leave. That is one way they sell to prohibited persons and keep a clean paper trail. Results in honest buyers being grilled by LEO after one of these guns turns up at a crime scene.
    (Yes, I am looking at you the now closed Houston Guns in Atascocita, TX.)

    Since that ‘adventure’ I ask that a line be drawn and “nothing follows” be added. Most FFLs are accommodating to this request.

  19. avatar tinhats says:

    My LGS showed me the form and told me he will now be requiring ID that shows full name, including middle name which mine already does but he says many of his customers’ do not currently have full middle name.

  20. avatar Zack says:

    “Now, those who have a non-binary gender designation on their government ID can purchase firearms”
    Not a good thing.

  21. avatar CBI says:

    There is a significant change being proposed that affects conducting a NICS check to facilitate a private sales, as required now in several of the less-free states.

    The current procedure (ATF Proc. 2013-1) requires filling out Sections A and B prior to contacting the FBI NICS for the background check. Prior to contacting NICS, the only item In Section D that is required to be checked is item 32 (formerly 30.c), stating that the check is to facilitate a private sale. In other words, it is not necessary to fill out the firearms identification information (e.g., make, model, serial number, etc.) prior to conducting the NICS check if the (private party) seller does not wish it done.

    If the result of the check is PROCEED, then the firearm information is entered in Section D and the A&D book, and things go as normal.

    If the result of the check is DELAYED or DENIED, then the firearm information in Section D is only filled out if the (private party) seller leaves or places the firearm in the FFL’s custody. If not, then the firearm information is not recorded in Section D and the A&D book until and unless the firearm is transferred to the transferee at a later date. At the later date, the when the transfer must be made at the FFL premises and the transferee must sign in Section C to recertify information.

    While the change does not force a complete firearms registration, it may be more than some sellers are comfortable with.

  22. avatar Hankus says:

    I’m sorry, I was under the impression that 4473 information was factual. Apparently now it can be real or imaginary. I’ll remember that.

  23. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    Will they supply FFL holders with an enlarged example to follow?

  24. avatar Sam Hill says:

    All this xxuy zxd stuff is making me dizzy. Ladies are all why, why, and men are all wrong thusly xx.

  25. avatar Uncle Sams child says:

    Non-binary what’s that a Russian computer? Seriously though using a 4473 to push a social agenda is silly. In fact, in a perfect world such individuals would be prohibited persons because of mental illness. Remember up until the 1970s homosexuality was a mental disorder. And don’t get me started on the suicide rate of these individuals…

  26. avatar Endlesspath says:

    I shouldn’t be, but I am surprised that the PC/SJW/NPC influence has crept into the ATF regarding the 4473. Seriously, physical descriptions only (you are born physically male or female between the legs, nothing else for 99.9999% of the population).
    This is what the autopsy/birth records show, and it’ll be determined when you are strip-searched if booked – period.

  27. avatar Ops says:

    maybe just have penis or vagina that will settle it

  28. avatar Joe Johnson, Junior says:

    Beware BATFE’s Proposed New Form 4473!

    BATFE’s proposed new Form 4473 – on which dealers record transfers to buyers of firearms – resembles those of the 1980s and 1990s. Then, information about buyer and firearm(s) were on a single page.

    BATFE’s proposed update isn’t driven by nostalgia. The revisions aim to ease electronic capture of buyer and firearm data. The goal: to ease creation of a firearm registry.

    Now, BATFE can’t lawfully build such a registry. The next election could change that. And even if it does not, BATFE wants to lay the foundations for a registry.

    From the early 1980s until background checks were required (end-1998), all information about a buyer and the firearms fit on one side of a form page, unless multiple firearms were involved. The rest of each form contained instructions.

    The proposed new Form 4473 puts on the first page, information about the firearms and the buyer. Following pages have information as to the buyer’s qualifications and the review process.

    This re-formulation reduces to a single side of a form page the data-capture needed to build a firearms registry.

    Congress has not authorized the creation of a firearms registry. No Federal agency should prepare for that.

    Further, Canada – hardly a “third world” country – tried to create a firearm registry. The law was enacted in 1995. The registry began in 1998. After a decade – and spending of well over $1 billion – the registry was abandoned.

    Key point: Canadians’ firearms amount to less than ten percent of Americans’ 411,000,000 firearms (end-2017; military items excluded). If the Canadians couldn’t build a registry, no one can (or should).

    Things super-abundant and mainly concealed simply can’t be controlled. That foredoomed Prohibition, the U.S. ban on retail sale of most alcoholic drinks (1919-33). Those, who backed Prohibition bequeathed well-organized and well-armed criminal cartels, which still damage us.

    Finally, any dealer – who records transactions via software, rather than using paper – should be avoided. During a compliance audit of a dealer, BATFE agents can down-load, in an instant, all of that dealer’s transaction records. Paper forms must be copied page-by-page. Copying every Form 4473 is not lawful!

    Shift your business to dealers, who do the heavy lifting, needed to protect your personal data by keeping all records on paper!

  29. avatar Austin Fox says:

    So they want to move the firearm info up front to make it easier for an ATF auditor/bureaucrat to scan a single page into a registration database. So much easier than having to jump to page 3 to pick up the serial number(s). Smooth move.

    Sorry about having to fill in the irrelevant data after the lost sale, but you know as well as I that the Bureau can’t do anything about a buyer that got cold feet. A better alternative: fill out your part of page 3 before you hand it to the buyer since you have to do it anyway.

    Let’s not make registration any easier for them. OK?

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