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Reader mister3d writes:

Final tally:
Shot & Killed: 58
Shot & Wounded: 303
Total Shot: 361
Total Homicides: 61

No, this wasn’t the horrific shooting at UCC.
This was just the tally of an average September in Chicago.


We heard of none of them. Where is the outrage for these victims?

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    • Sure it does. This is from a city that has embraced “Gun Control” as the solution to violent crime, and essentially banned concealed carry… but its topping the charts for violent crime right now.

      The civilian-disarmament types got their way in places like Chicago and NY, and not surprisingly they are now the most violent cities in the U.S.

      Watch the crime rate drop over the next couple years in Chicago as concealed carry becomes legal.

    • Possibly not, I’m not sure. (Though I prefer to see footnotes/sources anywhere data points are supplied. The rhetorical use of numerical data is a practice I deplore.)

      However the mastodon in the room is that there are patterns to the majority of violent crimes committed in this republic, and gun crimes/homicides in particular.

      We are not supposed to notice these patterns. In fact we are socially, politically, and economically rewarded by Big Mother in direct proportion to our ability to ignore them, and our skill at talking all around the facts and repeating Her narratives.


      Sorry. Slipped into my Orwellian programming for a moment there.

      Only certain gun deaths become media sensations. That isn’t accidental, as we can easily conclude from the fact that Generalissimo Hopey McSockPuppet was on the airwaves consolidating positions for the 2016 Dems and directing attention away from any element of jihadismo that might be lurking in the reality of this situation.

    • Except for the usual suspects like the NY Daily Snooze (total BS headline), NY Slimes, LA Slimes and Washington Compost we hear little because it was out of the bi-coastal area and he targeted Christians only so no sympathy.

    • When I heard the toll on the news and heard Obama blathering, the first thing I though was, “It’s a coupla weeks in Chicagoland” condensed…

      Tragic? Of course. Should this have potentially been minimized by armed students? If only. In the passionless analysis of statistics in a nation of 330MM people? This is not even a blip. I know, it’s human nature, and that the ‘news’ panders to it, but it’s just a freak event, like a plane crash. The selling this like it’s some sort of regular occurrence is the truly disingenuous part.

      • Couple of weeks? In Chicago, more people are killed and assaulted on a three-day weekend than in the Oregon shooting.

        • Very true it can be. I was just trying to go for an average, which IIRC is somewhere in the week or two range. Not always completely current on the rate, it’s kinda fluid.

      • It really is.. your heart goes out to the victims, but in terms of public policy this event is not remotely statistically significant.

        It’s a pattern, and one that warrant counter-action, but calling it a epidemic is just disingenuous. Gang related Black-on-black violence in gun-control havens IS an epidemic – it accounts for around 70% of all gun violence if memory serves me right.

        • All of which leads back to the profit margins in distribution of “controlled substances”. We did the Prohibition nonsense once, just like today it accomplished nothing save for making bad guys really well-funded, and creating useless government jobs. Oh, and lots of folks were killed to get that money.

      • In the sense that ‘crime is crime’ and ‘dead is dead’? Yup, the same.

        If you’re talking about rates per 100K or frequency? Things change very dramatically, from a statistical perspective.

  1. I can’t believe this site would try to denigrate “Black Culture”. Its just another “nothing to see… please move along” month in Chicago and a lot of other cities.

    • no. the taxes are too high. Makes me want to open an ammo store near an L stop no less than 250 across city of chicago border. . . . .

  2. Hold on, don’t give the antis any more ammo (pun intended) than they already have. We know most of these shooting were probably committed with “illegal” weapons, and not by the law abiding owner of a firearm. Yes, obviously some crimes are at the hands of the legal owner. That said, we know the current laws and future laws are targeting the legal law abiding citizen, because the criminal will always find a way. That is a mantra of us 2A types, and will continue to be. We only have to look to other countries where the citizens have had their firearms restricted or completely taken away to see the true outcome of disarming the general populace. It is not pretty. I can’t help but wonder how many of these law abiding innocent (assuming there were some) people in Chicago would have survived had they been armed to protect themselves.

    • As an Australian where we have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, I can honestly tell you that the vast majority of the population here is perfectly satisfied that gun ownership is restricted. If you are a hunter, farmer or recreational shooter, you can get guns here, but you do have to jump through some hoops. And yes – the criminals have guns here too – but guess how many of them use them? almost none. Guess how many of them get caught? Most.

      The USA must be a really different mind-set because the rest of the world simply shakes its head in sad astonishment that you are prepared to sacrifice your children to satisfy the primarily financial interests of the powerful gun lobby. It’s simply astounding.

      For you to state that gun laws in other countries have been ‘bad’ in some way is to be willfully ignorant. I have seen many comments from NRA supporters about how unhappy Australians are about gun laws – but they are all simple and straight forward lies. Utterly false. Most of us over here are just astounded you wont move to control the carnage. The proof is there – the rest of the world has it – gun control saves lives.

      • Yep just like outlawing Heroin, Cocain, crystalmeth etc have kept them off the streets and no one has died of Over Doses in decades.

        In the US we face very different racial cultural problems than australia does but you’re soon to get a dose of reality with your growing muslim problem. The overwhelming majority of the gun violence here is done with illegally owned guns and usually by black or hispanic gangs in the inner cities.

        BTW why have stabbings and people carrying knives gone up so much? Why are all of the cops and first responders wanting wanting puncture resistant vests? Reminds me of england.

        • I agree with you – the problems US faces are ver different animal to what Australia does. The ‘Muslim’ problem you speak of is not unknown here but event ifyou are right we have bombs not guns to worry about.

          Here is an article from one of our main newspapers that is probably representative of how a majority of aussies feel about the issue.

          I will stop preaching now – you guys are masters of your own destinies. I recognize that there is a real distance between us on this issue and I respect that you will deal with it on your own terms. Mainly I was saying that please – don’t tell lies about other countries, to try and justify your own position.

        • Steve, Thank you for your replay. Americas so called diversity is the root cause of or social turmoil. Historically, countries with monolithic populations and very few minorities have had very little crime and social upheaval. Battling subculture within the society undermine everything. If you take nonwhite crime out of the FBI crime stats you will find that the US is the safest place in the world.

          Now western europe is having to deal with what we have and it won’t be pretty. Sooner or later they will actually have to admit they have a problem and force the police to public honest crime stats which they don’t do now.

      • “The USA must be a really different mind-set . . . ” Yes it is. I grew up in a rural agricultural area. We didn’t think much about guns one way or the other. Guns were simply a matter of recreation: plinking; or hunting. Mostly for teenagers. It didn’t much occur to us that guns were used for violence. Perhaps if someone invaded one’s home. There was simply no violence and no point in being concerned about it. Nor any point in being concerned about the kids getting into the guns and ammo; that’s why they were kept around the house.
        There is a wide swath of the population that takes our Constitution seriously. As in: It’s not negotiable. It’s particularly not negotiable when the criminals have guns. Since the government can’t take the guns away from criminals we certainly aren’t going to give up our guns as law-abiding citizens.
        You Aussies and everyone else in the world can do as you see fit. Should you decide it best to sacrifice your civilization – in the cause chosen for you by your elite – well go right ahead. See who survives: good people; or, bad. We’ll see you on the other side. Meanwhile, we will carry on.

        • Fair argument – Like you I was brought up in a farming area and learned to hunt and I personally like guns and believe that responsible gun owners are of benefit to society.

          I am really interested in the practical answers to this problem. It’s celar that the US already has far too many guns and no political will to ever remove from the populace. Is the answer then to move to an open carry society – like Robert Heinlein proposed in Beyond this Horizon? .

          Are even more guns and a better educated society the answer? I am really interested in the solutions that you think might work.

        • You are asking for a lot; I’m not sure I can satisfy your appetite.

          The first thing to recognize is that almost everybody – not all, just very nearly all – people in our culture do not inflict violence on one-another. You will get the picture when you come to grips with the fact that 40 of our States have Right-to-Carry and there has been no blood-bath. Incidents where a permit holder (or 2A-able person in a Constitutional-Carry State) has committed an unexcused homicide (i.e., other than in self-defense) are really really rare. Somehow, you have to let-go of the fantasy that carry is going to lead to any noticeable increase in homicide.

          The second is to recognize that the overwhelming majority of homicide is Black-on-Black. The perpetrators generally have a rap sheet of increasingly serious and violent crime. These perpetrators are simply NOT going to be impeded – even slightly – by gun-controls.

          A third factor is that you must recognize that you can’t make any substantial change in the stock of arms in civilian hands in America without running a real risk of provoking a new civil war. You need not hazard a guess as to the outcome; the death and destruction would be overwhelming. reports the US Armed forces has 2.7 million firearms; police 1.15 million. Civilians have 310 million. Others estimate this figure to be 360 million.

          Because our military follows an up-or-out policy there are far more veterans than active-duty soldiers. Even the disabled can teach. By in large, this group is not comprised of happy-campers; you might say they are pretty pissed-off. They have sons; and daughters. Did I mention that they were trained by the most sophisticated military in the world? But, I suppose it doesn’t really matter so long as there is no civil war.

          Gun-control in America is nearly entirely focused on “point-of-sale”. That is, the fantasy of intervening in the gun market at the point where a lawful seller transfers a gun to a prohibited-person. This is just one moment in time. How do you successfully capture this moment? How do you avoid determined attempts to evade the effort to control this moment?

          Gun control at point-of-sale is like trying to plug the holes in a sieve. Choke-off one hole and the others will provide alternative routes. How do you stop straw-buying? Trafficking? Cottage industry? Smuggling? Theft? You have to stop them ALL; not just reduce the flow through one or a few channels.

          To make a gun in the US is PERFECTLY LEGAL! All the parts are available – mail-order – from internet providers; with one notable exception: the frame/receiver. There is an active competitive market in what we call “80% receivers” for AR-15 rifles/pistols. These, like all the other parts, are available mail-order. With a few simple tools and a modicum of craftsmanship anyone can complete the final 20% of fabrication and – have himself a gun for which there is NO record. All, of course, perfectly legal if you are not a prohibited-person. How do you regulate this cottage industry?

          Try regulating the fabrication of parts? Used CNC machine tools are now available for under $10,000. Such machines are ubiquitous. (Manual machine tools are sold for scrap or even given away.) The only fly in the ointment is rifling a barrel. This is tough; why, the technique was really worked-out only a couple hundred years ago. PITA; but where there is a will, there’s a way. Oh, by the way, for a sub-machine gun or shotgun there is no need to rifle the barrel.

          If you could stop cottage industry, how do you stop smuggling? Our President has no intention of controlling our borders. Neither party in Congress has any intention of controlling our borders. The US exports enormous numbers of guns to Mexico, Central and South America. From there, they can be easily smuggled back into the US the same way drugs are smuggled.

          As long as America retains an open primary market in guns nothing stops straw-buying; except, of course, for a willingness to enforce the straw-buying law. But, our criminal justice system refuses to enforce the straw-buying law. Any attempt to enforce this law will result in routine reporting of lost or stolen guns.

          If you want to keep guns out of the hands of prohibited persons you will have to enforce felon-in-posession and armed-robbery laws. But there is very little interest in our criminal justice system in enforcing these laws. Probation, short sentences, parole. We need to ration prison cells to really serious criminals, like small-time drug dealers, property-crime criminals and murderers. But even these have to be paroled to make space for new prisoners.

          Do you want to know what would have to change? Read:
          – Losing Legitimacy by LaFree
          – American Homicide by Roth
          – Citizen-Protectors: the everyday politics of guns in an age of decline by Carlson

          Are you a Progressive? If so, you won’t be happy after reading these books. The independent variables driving violence are not-intuitive. You might find them counter-intuitive. They don’t conform well to the Progressive agenda. I’m not encouraged. It’s not that the solutions are beyond the control of a society; rather, it’s that our (American) society will not implement the necessary changes. It’s not the 2A, nor any other enumerated right that stands in the way. It’s simply that – with a couple of possible exceptions – the apparent solutions are not politically correct; and, therefore doomed.

          If you sense ambivalence in our Congress to implement gun control, consider this. Throughout the ill-fated attempt at the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, Congress continued its heartfelt support of the Civilian Marksmanship Program, affectionately CMP. This private corporation was chartered by Congress; i.e., its articles of incorporation were prescribed by statute. Congress graces the CMP with a subsidy requiring the Army to turn-over surplus semiautomatic rifles to the CMP for FREE. CMP refurbishes them and sells them to the public in several stores, and by mail-order to 45 States. You might wonder how CMP can carry on in apparent non-compliance with the Gun Control Act of ’68; the answer is very simple. CMP is exempt from this law. Oh, by the way. I hasten to explain that CMP doesn’t sell “Assault Rifles” (3 shots, 1 kill); just “Battle Rifles” (1-shot, 3 kills).

          Oh, by the way, estimates of compliance in Connecticut and New York States’ AWBs are 5%. We will not comply! Have a nice day.

        • Wow – fantastic reply – I will take your invitation to do some further reading.

          Thank you very much!

        • You are welcome.
          After the downer you get from these books, you might turn to the book “The Better Angles of our Nature”. The author takes a very long term look at social evolution and points out that the trend is toward less violence. He also points to some influences that seem to have driven down our propensity toward violence.

          You must, of course, bear in mind that in a relatively large nation there are lots of mini-cultures. When you look at national statistics you get a blended view of all of these mini-cultures; but it doesn’t tell you anything about those mini-culture(s) that contribute to the statistics.

          FBI statistics give us some insight; e.g., that Black-on-Black violence contributes most of the homicide incidents. Indian-on-Indian rates are even higher; but don’t have much impact. Hispanic-on-Hispanic are lower, and contribute to the statistics. And, of course, the white population also has a tranche of violent criminals.

          After our Civil War the Republican party proposed the 14A in great part to allow illiterate freedmen the same right to arms as their white murderers. Then, our Supreme Court decided “never mind” and put Blacks, Southern-European Immigrants, Catholics etc. in the back-of-the-bus. In the great spirit of egalitarianism, our elites have decided that we should all be disarmed; excepting, of course, men of means and their guards.

          It took the great explosion in crime from about 1970 – 1990 for our State Legislatures to gradually wake-up and realize that leaving the criminals armed and the law-abing dis-armed wasn’t working very well. So, one-by-one or a few each year, they bestowed upon us our Constitutional Right to bear arms; now, about 40 States. None have looked-back; none have retreated on Right-to-Carry. That leaves 10 States and DC that still defy the Constitution. What to make of this? Which faction of our society is crazy? Which is correct? The faction that recognized the error of it’s ways and began to honor the Constitution? Or, the faction that stubbornly insists on defying the Constitution?

          Tragically, the expanding exercise of Right-to-Carry is apt to reduce some crimes such as armed-robbery and assault; however, I don’t think it’s apt to move the needle a lot on homicide. The bulk of the homicide statistics are Black-on-Black; and, these victims and perpetrators alike most do NOT qualify to carry legally. Apart from a culture change in this mini-culture, what will reduce the US homicide rate by an appreciable amount?

          What do you think might work? Bigger GFZ signs? Putting tax-payers in jail because they defy a BC law when lending a gun to a buddy?

          I strongly recommend that you google the story of Shaneen Allen of Philadelphia. Her case illustrates what the gun-controllers in America (specifically NJ) want to do with law-abiding taxpayers who dare to defend ourselves. Tell me what you think after you have read her story.

        • Steve, I looked at the Wikipedia article on Beyond This Horizon. Didn’t see much that interested me. The author of a novel is entitled to imagine any world he likes; I doubt that what he envisions does a lot to inform the discussion.

          We have a greatly developed myth of the Old West; our American frontier in the last quarter of the 19th century. It is, naturally, mostly myth. Developed by script writers of cowboy and Indian TV series on which I was raised. I found them great entertainment as a child; but I never took them to be any more factual than the cartoons I watched on Saturday mornings.

          You might find the book “Gunfighters Highwaymen & Vigilantes – Violence on the Frontier” by McGrath a more illuminating title. Basically, he found that life in the very WORST frontier towns was relatively peaceful for women, children and upstanding men of the community. Single men shot it out with one another in saloons; but, then, the loss to civilization from these deaths is subject to personal opinion.

          Another title (expensive, I’ll warn you) is “Concealed Weapon Laws of the Early Republic – Dueling, Southern Violence and Moral Reform” by Cramer. His study leads him to conclude that America’s concealed weapon laws most likely arose out of the attempts to ban dueling. Arguably, dueling was a nasty business; and, just as arguably, it was a formalized ritual affair that included opportunity for safety-valves to vent anger before the ritual of violence actually exploded. Southern legislators feared that if their efforts to get rid of dueling were successful (which they were, eventually) the same passions would emerge in spontaneous drawing of concealed weapons. An amazing exercise of second-ordered thinking. Imagine, a legislator being capable of thinking beyond the first stage of his own actions and anticipating counter-actions! What Cramer found – spontaneous pulling of concealed weapons to avenge an affront – in the early 1800s might have a lot to do with Black-on-Black violence in the late 20th and 21st Century.

  3. Barry Hussein Obama Soetoro is a racist and he hates his own people. He is a pawn of the white liberal establishment. #Blacklivesdontmatter to liberals looking down on them from the second floor veranda. . . just throw more freebies at them or pass a new law to placate them. . . . same goes for Bloomberg, Shannon, Soros, Pelosi, and the rest of the establishment. Just ask them why they don’t have Black folk in real leadership roles in their organizations. . . . . truth hurts.

    • Barry has set “race relations” back 50 years. He throws himself into every shooting
      “that could have been me.”

      • Mixed race and full of hatred for traditional Christian values? If not for the affluence and connections to start “community organizing” this shooter could have been Obama.

    • Let’s be fair, he’s only half-black. That, and more importantly, post-Carter, every President (and Administration) has been a sock-puppet for the money and interests that put them there.

    • So true. The established Dem’s and Lib’s continually marginalize the capability of blacks with social crutches in order to keep them down; to get them addicted to the freebies. They might as well be handing out gov’t sponsored crack.


  4. It’s the same thing again loner psycho with no social skills can’t deal with reality ! The violent people on the street don’t garner attention like a single PSYCHO MALE does.

  5. 90% of the Chicago shootings occur in ONLY SIX (6) neighborhoods according to a Study by Yale Scociologists.
    Murder is, indeed, a cultural problem!

    • “90% of the Chicago shootings occur in ONLY SIX (6) neighborhoods according to a Study by Yale Scociologists.
      Murder is, indeed, a cultural problem!”

      And an estimated 80% of homicides across the nation occur due to gang-related violence. The majority of homicides come from a minority of high gun control, democrat-run neighborhoods and yet they call for us to “do something!” about Black Swans when they can’t (or won’t) do anything about a war going on in their jurisdictions every day. Take a good look at the worst parts of Chicago, that’s what they want to bring to your neighborhood.

    • Here in Atlanta we got one of those on local radio as a running commentary on what Obama had to say as he said it. Because of Eric Ericson, I made it all the way through my first speech with that guy. It is impossible for me to listen to Obama otherwise since he never has anything to say that is worth my time. My normal rule is to change the station if he comes on the radio.

  6. Maybe it’s despicable to be outraged at massively publicized killings and numb to what constitutes the vast majority of actual gun crime in this country, but that doesn’t invalidate the concern over an uptick in massively publicized killings. Stuff like this leads to massive “feels”-based calls for gun control. I’m curious as to why we have so many of these scumbags nowadays. We’ve had a lot of guns in this country for a long time, so what gives? What’s actually different that accounts for the increase?

    • We don’t have a “gun problem.” We have a “violence problem” and removing the tools of self-defense will only worsen the outcome. If people started focusing more on violent behavior instead of guns, we might get somewhere. Y’know, like actually applying the laws we have to keep dangerous people off the streets.

      That said, there will ALWAYS be someone who slips through the cracks, someone who is suicidal / murderous in intent and is willing to die in order to get some sort of revenge on society. The cost of preventing every single gun death is simply this — a total police state, with an armed policeman for every citizen, shadowing him every step of the way (but even then, who will watch the watchers?). This is an imperfect world, and those who want to make it perfect apparently think that disarming me and removing my means of self-defense will make them safe.

    • 1. Total lack of morality based and backed education system for 25 years .
      2. Total lack of morality based and backed households for last 25 years .
      3. Total lack of morality show by National leadership for last 25 years .
      4. Total lack of morality based main stream media coverage for last 25 years .
      5. 50 % single parent homes for the last 25 years .
      6. 50 % multi-parent homes for the last 25 years .
      7. Church membership declining for last 25 years .
      8. Media coverage almost glamorization of these type of shootings last 25 years .
      9. Too much focus on gun control and gun culture by MSM .
      10. Bill Clinton .

    • You ask why so many scum bags, As an ex convict many years ago I can honestly tell you it is the morals of the country from the top to the bottom. People have just plain lost any real moral conviction. In this countries views on liberality and acceptance of all that comes along and almost complete rejection of the word of God ie the bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ which can readily be read by anyone we have given an open invitation to satanic powers and provinces beyond the sight of the human eye.

      These powers are very real, the voices the criminals hear in there heads are very real and unless this nation gets on its knees literally and seeks Jesus Christ the killing is going to increase whether the nice people have guns or not. Christ has sent me back into the prisons carrying the gospel of Christ and only those who truly call on him turn away from the violence in their hearts and heads.

      One can and should protect him or herself with weapons on the home front and while out and about. yet i promise you no matter what laws are made or what the government dose or doesn’t do until they turn to Jesus Christ as our founding Fathers did it will be defeated by utter evil.

      Signed [email protected] currently and for the last 13 years riding for Bikers for Christ Motorcycle Ministry. sinner saved by the grace of God. My body is riddled with the scars of the lifestyle I once lived. Which I received in prison 33 years ago and on the back streets of Brocton Mass after having stolen a car when a man didn’t pay me for work I had done on it. The only thing that saved me from being murdered while in prison and on the streets of Brocton was the Holy power of Gods heavenly Host

  7. And in Australia, we hear of a civilian police employee being shot as he left work. The gunman was then killed by police officers. “A critical incident team will now investigate all circumstances surrounding the incident, police say. ” according to the BBC. I’m going out on a limb and saying right now that it wasn’t a legal gun owner who did the shooting, but those legal gun owners will be further attacked in Australian media in the days to come.

    • Every time a double vision seeing drunk driver drives his car into an innocent motorist and kills someone I think old Barry and the progressive irk should jump on the MSM cloud and tell America we need more car controls .
      When 24 men die in a coal mine disaster we don’t close down coal mines do we ?
      Oops , maybe they do , but but but but thathathathats because of global warming , I I I I I mean climate change uh uh uh you know , carbon emissions or I mean man made carbon emissions .

    • It’s a shame what has happened to Australia. A country founded by a bunch of hard ass motherFers has been completely pussy whipped.

  8. Sorry, but this post doesn’t work. The very definition of mass shooting is not that of what occurs in Chicago. In Chicago, you just have a lot of people killed at various times in various places. That’s a murder problem, not a mass shooting.

  9. Everyone is talking gun control but nobody is stepping up to protect the children. Gun control is easy, get mad at congress or the nra, anybody but yourself. Who’s fault is it? YOU. Our president is protected, our computers are protected but not our schools and universities????

    Anyone, I do mean anyone who is talking smack about common sense gun legislation; SHUT UP!!!!

    I don’t see you protecting anyone with your rhetoric!

    Just passing the buck… What a bunch of cowards!

    If they are outraged, If they are Saddened, If they want to do something to actually prevent this type of event from happening again.

    Volunteer for security duty at your local school or university;You are actually doing something about it instead of relying on a government.

  10. Gun control is freedom control, and people control. This event happened because of a lack of imagination and lack of security.

    This would never happen at the White House or at a Police station…

  11. And yet Obama tells us that “the places with the most gun control have the least violence” like it’s an indisputable fact.

  12. People are surprisingly uninformed. They think concealed carry makes it legal for thugs to be armed. No it does not! They were and still are in violation. Concealed carry now simply evens things out for the law abiding.

  13. The half white president Obama does not care about black on black crime. He does care about rural white people when they kill each other. The same goes for white socialist they don’t care about black on black crime either.

    It was the columbine massacre that motivated the white socialists. One of the kids killed at columbine was a black kid who had moved to the white suburbs. Also it was two white women in their twenties who purchased and then gave the guns to the high school boy shooters in Colorado. The women both got less than two years in federal prison for supplying the guns to minors. Everyone forgets it was adult white female friends who supplied guns to children who then killed other children.

    The death of innocent white rural people is what motivates them. The fact that innocent black children were and still are being shot does not motivate the half white president or his white socialist supporters.

  14. The problem being that because the liberal weenies don’t see this in their nightly news, they don’t admit that it’s happening.


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